| === dyek_ is now known as dyek | ||
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| === lan3y is now known as Laney | ||
| === eeejay is now known as eeejay_away | ||
| === bjf-afk is now known as bjf | ||
| === bjf is now known as bjf-afk | ||
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| pitti | Good morning | 07:21 |
|---|---|---|
| pitti | ccheney: in our glib version, just drop the --enable-cassert configure option in debian/rules | 07:21 |
| chrisccoulson | good morning everyone | 08:30 |
| pitti | hey chrisccoulson | 08:30 |
| chrisccoulson | hey pitti, how are you today? | 08:31 |
| pitti | I'm good, thanks! and you? | 08:31 |
| chrisccoulson | apparently it has just started snowing outside | 08:44 |
| seb128_ | hello there | 09:03 |
| seb128_ | seems I've some internet issues today | 09:03 |
| chrisccoulson1 | hey seb128_ | 09:05 |
| baptistemm | hi there & happy new year everyone :) | 09:06 |
| chrisccoulson1 | happy new year to you too baptistemm | 09:06 |
| baptistemm | hey ey chrisccoulson | 09:06 |
| baptistemm | eh chrisccoulson1 rather :) | 09:06 |
| pitti | bonjour seb128 | 09:10 |
| === seb128__ is now known as seb128 | ||
| seb128 | hi? | 09:23 |
| seb128 | is IRC hating other people today too? | 09:23 |
| mvo | hey seb128 | 09:24 |
| mvo | seb128: I think it just hates you :) | 09:25 |
| seb128 | hello? | 09:25 |
| seb128 | hey mvo | 09:25 |
| seb128 | the lag bar was bouncing for half an hour now | 09:25 |
| seb128 | it did reconnect a couple of time but I got nothing going through I think | 09:25 |
| seb128 | seems to work better now... | 09:25 |
| mvo | good luck! | 09:25 |
| seb128 | mvo, how are you? | 09:26 |
| mvo | I'm fine, thanks! just had some tea | 09:26 |
| mvo | how are you? (beside the inet issues)? | 09:26 |
| seb128 | pretty good thanks | 09:26 |
| seb128 | mvo, is software-center supposed to let you upgrade things? | 09:27 |
| seb128 | the karmic version had an "upgrade" button when new versions were available | 09:27 |
| seb128 | but that doesn't seem to be the case in lucid? | 09:27 |
| mvo | seb128: right, it used to be in the mockups, but I think its no more | 09:28 |
| seb128 | hum | 09:28 |
| seb128 | it's weird that you can't upgrade things from there | 09:28 |
| seb128 | you can upgrade things from the apple app store | 09:29 |
| seb128 | ;-) | 09:29 |
| chrisccoulson | hey seb128 | 09:30 |
| mvo | heh ;) | 09:30 |
| seb128 | hey chrisccoulson | 09:30 |
| chrisccoulson | your internet is working better now? | 09:31 |
| seb128 | yes | 09:32 |
| seb128 | seems to be stable now | 09:32 |
| mvo | seb128: I got a chance to play with the iphone store over christmas a bit (a friend of mine got one). fun thing | 09:37 |
| mvo | wb seb128_ | 09:37 |
| seb128_ | hum, or not | 09:37 |
| mvo | <mvo> seb128: I got a chance to play with the iphone store over christmas a bit (a friend of mine got one). fun thing | 09:37 |
| seb128_ | just when I was saying it works better | 09:37 |
| seb128_ | mvo, indeed, I love my ipod touch | 09:37 |
| seb128_ | very handy to quickly check things | 09:38 |
| seb128_ | train, facebook posts, etc | 09:38 |
| seb128_ | 09:38 | |
| * mvo nods | 09:38 | |
| seb128_ | I found the "upgrade from software-center" cool | 09:42 |
| seb128_ | shame it's not working in lucid ;-) | 09:42 |
| mvo | mpt: ---^ | 09:42 |
| mpt | seb128, what "upgrade from software-center"? | 09:44 |
| mvo | mpt: but #432610 | 09:45 |
| mvo | bug | 09:45 |
| mvo | bug #432610 | 09:45 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 432610 in software-center "Cannot remove app if it has an upgrade available" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432610 | 09:45 |
| seb128_ | mpt, let's say I've an outdated gdm installed | 09:45 |
| seb128_ | or $software | 09:45 |
| seb128_ | in karmic when you go to that software in software-center you have an upgrade button | 09:46 |
| seb128_ | now you just have "uninstall" | 09:46 |
| seb128_ | which forces me to use synaptic to upgrade it | 09:46 |
| seb128_ | sucks, software-center is much faster and nicer | 09:46 |
| mpt | seb128, you don't have Update Manager installed? | 09:46 |
| seb128_ | I have but I've some 350 upgrades pending | 09:48 |
| mpt | and you want to update just that one | 09:48 |
| seb128_ | and I just want to upgrade one software now to try something | 09:48 |
| mpt | hmm | 09:48 |
| seb128_ | I don't want to start a 3 hours upgrade | 09:48 |
| mpt | sure | 09:48 |
| seb128_ | perhaps software-center could have a "to upgrade" category ? | 09:49 |
| seb128_ | like the apple app store has | 09:49 |
| mpt | It's possible USC will allow updates in the future | 09:50 |
| seb128_ | it did in karmic already ;-) | 09:50 |
| mpt | but it would need careful design first, so that we don't end up with bugs like #432610 | 09:50 |
| seb128_ | it's weird it's "broken" now | 09:50 |
| seb128_ | bug#432610 | 09:50 |
| seb128_ | bug 432610 | 09:50 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 432610 in software-center "Cannot remove app if it has an upgrade available" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432610 | 09:50 |
| seb128_ | add an extra button in this case? | 09:51 |
| seb128_ | I can open the opposite bug now | 09:51 |
| mpt | You're welcome to, but it won't affect the scheduling much :-) | 09:51 |
| seb128_ | I was just checking it that was a bug or a design decision | 09:52 |
| seb128_ | seems it's a design choice | 09:52 |
| seb128_ | I won't bother | 09:52 |
| seb128_ | seems that designers like to drop features I'm using ;-) | 09:52 |
| seb128_ | but I'm getting used to that by now | 09:53 |
| mpt | I haven't designed the feature at all yet. I will eventually, but there are other more important things to implement first. | 09:53 |
| mpt | I'm sorry. | 09:53 |
| mpt | Another thing that would make that case easier is a "deselect all" function in Update Manager, so you could then just select the updates you're interested in. | 09:54 |
| seb128_ | that's ok | 09:54 |
| seb128_ | it just that it was working in karmic | 09:54 |
| seb128_ | so I got used to it | 09:54 |
| seb128_ | there is one in the context menu | 09:54 |
| seb128_ | don't worry I manage to upgrade things | 09:54 |
| seb128_ | I just find that feature cool in karmic | 09:54 |
| seb128_ | it creates user expectation | 09:54 |
| seb128_ | it would not have been an issue if that was not there and dropped | 09:55 |
| mpt | huh, so there is, I never noticed :-) | 09:55 |
| seb128_ | if things are not there that's ok | 09:55 |
| seb128_ | if they are there and you got used to those and they get broken you get annoyed | 09:55 |
| mpt | Yes, I saw a lot of that with the Mozilla project and Netscape 4 -> Netscape 6 | 09:56 |
| seb128_ | anything not the end of the world, thanks ;-) | 09:56 |
| mpt | "Why did you remove feature X" | 09:56 |
| mpt | "Sorry, we haven't reimplemented it yet" | 09:57 |
| mvo | having a button for this in the details view sounds not like it would do a lot of harm and is convenient for some uers | 09:58 |
| seb128_ | right, I don't see the issue with having 3 buttons instead of 2 | 10:00 |
| seb128_ | when updates are available | 10:00 |
| seb128_ | but I'm not a designer ;-) | 10:00 |
| === seb128_ is now known as seb128 | ||
| seb128 | pitti, hey | 10:00 |
| seb128 | pitti, your changes from yesterday won us between 0.5 and 1s | 10:01 |
| seb128 | hard to say because desktop numbers are changing between boot in a 0.3s to 0.5s margin usuallt | 10:01 |
| mpt | mvo, but it's never just "having a button". We need to specify what happens to the "Remove" button while it's updating, what the text is for an updating item in the "In Progress" section, what happens if you try to update an item that's queued for removal, etc | 10:02 |
| pitti | seb128: nice! I actually thought it wouldn't win anything because panel is running much longer | 10:03 |
| pitti | but with nautilus using less CPU other processes are faster perhaps | 10:04 |
| pitti | seb128: total desktop time at http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/ is no different apparently | 10:04 |
| seb128 | pitti, scott's charts are using daily isos | 10:04 |
| pitti | but nautilus time on http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100104-max.png and http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100105-max.png is indeed a huge improvement \o/ | 10:04 |
| seb128 | I doubt there is one with this upgrade yet | 10:04 |
| seb128 | oh, there is? | 10:05 |
| pitti | seb128: today's dailies have the new brasero | 10:05 |
| seb128 | I though it was taking longer to him to rsync and update charts | 10:05 |
| seb128 | is that usually those were not updated in the morning yet | 10:05 |
| seb128 | anyway on my mini the boot time dropped from 18-18.5s to 17.5-18s today | 10:05 |
| seb128 | I did some 5 boots before and after | 10:05 |
| seb128 | weird that it doesn't reflects on Scott's charts | 10:07 |
| chrisccoulson | seb128 - i will have some g-s-d, gconf and gnome-session updates for you to test later hopefully :) | 10:14 |
| seb128 | updates? | 10:14 |
| seb128 | new versions? | 10:14 |
| seb128 | or boot speed? | 10:14 |
| chrisccoulson | seb128 - boot speed improvements (hopefully) | 10:14 |
| seb128 | nice! | 10:14 |
| seb128 | look forwarding testing those changes ;-) | 10:14 |
| seb128 | what did you change exactly? | 10:15 |
| tseliot | pitti: my changes to jockey should go in lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/jockey/ubuntu , right? | 10:15 |
| tseliot | pitti: as they affect only driver handlers | 10:15 |
| chrisccoulson | seb128 - the gconf change is to parse the XML files when gconfd loads, rather than waiting for an application to query the database. the gnome-session change is to get the session up and running without using gconf. i've done both of these already | 10:16 |
| chrisccoulson | the g-s-d change will be to load the xrandr plugin without using gconf | 10:16 |
| seb128 | nice | 10:16 |
| chrisccoulson | the idea being that by the time any values are queried, all the XML parsing will have finished | 10:17 |
| seb128 | did I already say that you rock? ;-) | 10:17 |
| chrisccoulson | i don't know how well it will work yet, so don't get your hopes up too much ;) | 10:17 |
| mvo | hm, it looks like vte (in synaptic) turns into some sort of white/black instead of black/white when a bunch of lines are displayed - has anyone seen that (probably with the latest vte) | 10:26 |
| mvo | seb128: what was the option again to make glib break on GLib-Critiical? | 10:27 |
| pitti | tseliot: trunk has the drivers as well in examples/, so if applicable, commit them there | 10:28 |
| baptistemm | mvo, --g-fatal-warnings | 10:28 |
| baptistemm | ? | 10:28 |
| mvo | great, thanks | 10:28 |
| tseliot | pitti: yes, I can do there. Furthermore I would like to make jockey depend on nvidia-common > 0.2.15 (because of the new Alternatives class) but I would rather not upload (or have the package uploaded) until the new nvidia-common is in lucid. Shall I simply put UNRELEASED in the changelog (in case you want to change something else)? | 10:30 |
| pitti | tseliot: you should always commit changes with "UNRELEASED" anyway | 10:30 |
| tseliot | pitti: ok, good to know | 10:31 |
| pitti | so please go ahead and change the dependency; I guess n-common will be uploaded very soon? | 10:31 |
| tseliot | yes, I would like to do some testing on real hardware first though | 10:31 |
| chrisccoulson | mvo - if you want to do it at runtime, you need to run with G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals | 10:32 |
| chrisccoulson | i think baptistemm's suggestion is a build option isn't it? | 10:33 |
| huats | morning | 10:33 |
| james_w | huats! | 10:34 |
| james_w | Salut | 10:34 |
| huats | hey james_w ! | 10:34 |
| baptistemm | chrisccoulson, no, this is aruntime options | 10:34 |
| chrisccoulson | baptistemm - ah, i wasn't sure | 10:37 |
| mvo | chrisccoulson: thanks, the environment was the one I was looking for, but --g-fatal-warnings works too when passed to the application | 10:37 |
| baptistemm | I didn't know about the G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals | 10:38 |
| mvo | hm, looks like irc does not like me anymore | 10:41 |
| tseliot | pitti: the handlers in lp:jockey seem to be a bit older than the ones in ubuntu-core-dev (e.g. both the "enable" and "disable" methods seem to be missing) | 11:01 |
| pitti | tseliot: right, I left out the truly ubuntu specific bits | 11:05 |
| pitti | tseliot: perhaps it's best if you just commit your changes to the ubuntu branch for now | 11:05 |
| tseliot | pitti: ok | 11:05 |
| === mpt_ is now known as mpt | ||
| seb128 | mvo, I see other people replied for me ;-) | 11:20 |
| seb128 | the runtime option or variable do the same thing | 11:20 |
| rodrigo_ | hi and happy new year | 11:39 |
| rodrigo_ | my first question of the year (more to come) :-) | 11:39 |
| pitti | hey rodrigo_, happy new year! | 11:40 |
| rodrigo_ | hey pitti | 11:40 |
| rodrigo_ | pitti: I am about to create a new package to be added to lucid, should I use dput as I did for karmic, before there were package branches, or should I use a branch from the beginning? | 11:40 |
| pitti | seb128: so, I removed init/upstart bits from hal now and set it to dbus-activation | 11:41 |
| rodrigo_ | and if using a branch, where should I submit it? | 11:41 |
| pitti | seb128: now pitivi starts up just fine, without hal starting on boot | 11:41 |
| pitti | rodrigo_: that's rather a question for james_w, but you can't use a package branch before the package is known | 11:42 |
| rodrigo_ | ah | 11:42 |
| rodrigo_ | james_w: around? | 11:42 |
| pitti | rodrigo_: so perhaps just use a +junk branch for now and later move it over? | 11:42 |
| james_w | "known" can be anything though | 11:42 |
| mpt | mvo, does apt or dpkg keep track of when a package was installed? | 11:42 |
| james_w | so as soon as you upload to your PPA you can push to lp:~rodrigo/ubuntu/lucid/<packagename>/whatever | 11:42 |
| pitti | oh, sweet | 11:43 |
| james_w | but yes, +junk could serve you until that point | 11:43 |
| james_w | and yes, using branches is a good idea :-) | 11:43 |
| rodrigo_ | james_w: ok, I'll use a junk branch then | 11:43 |
| pitti | so merely having that package in a PPA suffices? | 11:43 |
| james_w | yeah | 11:43 |
| rodrigo_ | yes, I prefer branches than dput | 11:43 |
| pitti | rodrigo_: right now it's not about an either-or; you'll need dput either way :) | 11:43 |
| james_w | there's no lp:ubuntu/<packagename> obviously | 11:43 |
| james_w | but you can use a 5-part name | 11:44 |
| rodrigo_ | pitti: right, but for building my package locally, and keeping track of changes, I prefer a branch than a dir on my PC | 11:44 |
| pitti | right | 11:44 |
| rodrigo_ | ok then | 11:44 |
| chrisccoulson | i think i should have stayed at home this morning! | 11:48 |
| chrisccoulson | all of our local roads are gridlocked now it has snowed :( | 11:48 |
| TeTeT | asac: any news on the root certificate in firefox integration? | 11:49 |
| asac | TeTeT: i wasnt aware that there was somthing still left. | 11:50 |
| asac | its not doable without repacking firefox | 11:50 |
| asac | and i didnt get any other feedback yet. | 11:51 |
| === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch | ||
| seb128 | the unstopable pitti | 11:53 |
| seb128 | pitti, you rock ;-) | 11:54 |
| pitti | heh | 11:54 |
| pitti | thanks, you too! | 11:54 |
| TeTeT | asac: ok, thanks | 11:54 |
| asac | i pinged again | 11:55 |
| seb128 | pitti, sorry about the build-depends overlook | 11:56 |
| seb128 | pitti, the gir thing sucks though | 11:56 |
| pitti | np | 11:56 |
| pitti | gir? | 11:56 |
| seb128 | gobject introspection | 11:57 |
| pitti | oh, not having python udev bindings, you mean | 11:57 |
| seb128 | ie no gudev for python | 11:57 |
| seb128 | right | 11:57 |
| pitti | I wonder when this gets merted | 11:57 |
| pitti | merged | 11:57 |
| seb128 | I don't agree with the crash = data loss though | 11:57 |
| pitti | it was a SoC project last year, and the git branch looks pretty well maintained | 11:57 |
| seb128 | does it destroy the original video? or just don't give you what you asked for | 11:58 |
| seb128 | and also we have an apport issue there | 11:58 |
| pitti | seb128: I don't think it'll destroy input files | 11:58 |
| seb128 | it catches python exceptions as crashes | 11:58 |
| pitti | (well, I hope anyway) | 11:58 |
| seb128 | even if those are non-issue | 11:58 |
| seb128 | it's an issue for empathy msn bugs too | 11:58 |
| pitti | well, an unhandled exception means that the program immediately dies, without the possibility to save your edits, or telling you why | 11:59 |
| seb128 | lot of "not implement feature" exceptions reported as crashes | 11:59 |
| seb128 | well raising an error doesn't mean the program exit | 11:59 |
| pitti | why is that an exception then, instead of just a warning? | 11:59 |
| pitti | sure it does | 11:59 |
| pitti | it only catches unhandled exceptsions | 12:00 |
| pitti | i. e. which cause the program to abort | 12:00 |
| seb128 | hum | 12:00 |
| pitti | I guess for empathy it's less of an issue | 12:00 |
| seb128 | that's not what the telepathy-butterfly guys said | 12:01 |
| pitti | you get disconnected, the backend gets respawned, and there you can re-connect | 12:01 |
| seb128 | they say most of the "crash bug" on launchpad are not crashes | 12:01 |
| pitti | seb128: do you have a reference? | 12:01 |
| pitti | we can add an apport hook to ignore particular crashes if they are uninteresting | 12:01 |
| pitti | (or just fix the damn code to intercept and ignore them) | 12:01 |
| pitti | but if you throw an exception and don't catch it, then you break the program flow anyway, so the only thing you can do is to restart the program | 12:02 |
| seb128 | istaz, ^ | 12:03 |
| seb128 | pitti, I don't remember the specifics but istaz is upstream for that one | 12:03 |
| pitti | anyway, I'm happy to discuss that with upstream directly of course | 12:03 |
| seb128 | istaz, do you have example of things apport catch wrongly? | 12:03 |
| pitti | istaz: hey! (and happy new year!) | 12:03 |
| james_w | pitti: is apport turned on in lucid yet? | 12:04 |
| seb128 | <istaz> seb128: it seem apport show crash dialog on certain error even if telepathy-butterfly doesn't crash | 12:05 |
| seb128 | james_w, no | 12:05 |
| seb128 | <istaz> and the papyon libs we use generate a lot of error | 12:05 |
| pitti | james_w: not yet, we planned to do so in the new year | 12:05 |
| pitti | james_w: to at least catch python crashes; signal crashes are still broken due to a kernel bug | 12:05 |
| mvo | mpt: hi, with the history branch we have that info now, we sort of had it before too | 12:05 |
| james_w | pitti: ok, just wondering when to consider turning kerneloops on | 12:05 |
| pitti | we should do it by alpha-2 anyway | 12:06 |
| === om26er_ is now known as om26er | ||
| pitti | dobey, kenvandine: when do you plan to drop the U1 applet? (it's a work item for startup speed) | 12:13 |
| mpt | mvo, what do you mean by "sort of"? :-) | 12:24 |
| seb128 | vuntz, hey | 12:25 |
| seb128 | vuntz, happy new year! | 12:25 |
| mvo | mpt: there is information in the dpkg.log file, but for the real picture we need the apt history branch | 12:25 |
| seb128 | vuntz, who do I talk to about gnome-desktop breaking abi without soname change? | 12:25 |
| pitti | bonjour vuntz, happy new year! | 12:26 |
| mpt | mvo, ah. I was just wanting to know whether I could say "Installed on {date}" in the screen for an installed item. | 12:27 |
| mvo | mpt: the dpkg.log contains a lot of noise, that is a bit of a problem | 12:27 |
| mpt | right | 12:27 |
| pitti | mvo: it also gets rotated away over time? | 12:27 |
| mvo | mpt: i see, we can do that I think, but we need to cache it, its way to slow to parse it | 12:27 |
| mvo | pitti: that too | 12:28 |
| mpt | mvo, should we leave it until history is implemented then? Or would caching it require that much extra work regardless? | 12:28 |
| mvo | mpt: just put it as a work item to the software-center-ui-improvements spec, I think its sufficiently different. but I can make no promises that we can land it for 2.0 | 12:29 |
| mpt | Ok, I'll punt it to the "Not scheduled" section | 12:30 |
| mpt | thanks | 12:30 |
| mvo | it should not be hard, the initial cost may be high and for some we can only guess (old installs that have no log information anymore) | 12:31 |
| pitti | seb128: how much did the fontconfig stuff cost us again? | 12:32 |
| mpt | mvo, maybe It can be one of the 101 things | 12:32 |
| mvo | mpt: yeah. it needs some thinking about the caching (and cache invalidation), a slow implementation is trivial to do | 12:33 |
| seb128 | pitti, I would have to test again, it was winning some 2-3 seconds when I first tried | 12:33 |
| seb128 | but I tried to found if a specific config file was causing it and deleting each one, one by one | 12:33 |
| pitti | seb128: that's spread over all programs, I take it? | 12:33 |
| seb128 | and didn't find anything making a real difference | 12:34 |
| seb128 | yes | 12:34 |
| pitti | ok, thanks | 12:34 |
| seb128 | I guess that the antialiasing creates some work | 12:34 |
| mvo | mpt: a interessting problem to think about :) do you have a mockup already? maybe I can do some prototyping on this | 12:34 |
| seb128 | so it's shared as extra load by everything rendering fonts | 12:34 |
| seb128 | + the cost of reading all the caches for the number of fonts we haver | 12:35 |
| seb128 | - | 12:35 |
| seb128 | -r | 12:35 |
| * pitti lunches | 12:36 | |
| mpt | mvo, there are plenty of interesting problems for you to think about that are already in the spec ;-) | 12:36 |
| mpt | mvo, for example, the categorized list view and making search work in it | 12:37 |
| mpt | mvo, and repairing a broken apt cache without getting Update Manager to do it | 12:39 |
| mvo | and plenty more indeed | 12:39 |
| rodrigo_ | can I publish a tar.gz in LP? I can't seem to find where to do it on my project page | 12:46 |
| james_w | I think you need to make a release/milestone | 12:49 |
| james_w | #launchpad will know if you can just host files not specific to a release | 12:49 |
| vuntz | seb128: mclasen (since he did the tarball) | 12:57 |
| seb128 | you could think he would know better | 12:57 |
| seb128 | anyway I will ping him when he's around | 12:57 |
| seb128 | thanks | 12:57 |
| vuntz | and happy new year to everyone here :-) | 12:57 |
| baptistemm | salut vuntz | 12:58 |
| rodrigo_ | james_w: it's specific to a release | 13:02 |
| rodrigo_ | james_w: should I make an announcement then? | 13:02 |
| james_w | ok, if you go to the milestone page you can add download files there | 13:02 |
| rodrigo_ | ah | 13:02 |
| rodrigo_ | james_w: I've got no milestones, so register a series first? | 13:03 |
| james_w | yeah, you need a series to put a milestone on | 13:05 |
| james_w | though you should have a default series? | 13:05 |
| rodrigo_ | james_w: I guess so -> https://edge.launchpad.net/libubuntuone | 13:07 |
| james_w | what release are you making? | 13:08 |
| james_w | just 0.1? | 13:08 |
| james_w | will it be supported with 0.1.1 etc? | 13:08 |
| rodrigo_ | 0.0.1 | 13:08 |
| james_w | ok, so a series for tracking bugs to be backported to it etc. is not what you want? | 13:08 |
| rodrigo_ | no, just want to publish the tar.gz somewhere :) | 13:09 |
| james_w | ok | 13:09 |
| james_w | "Development focus: trunk series " | 13:10 |
| james_w | click "trunk series" to go to https://edge.launchpad.net/libubuntuone/trunk | 13:10 |
| james_w | and you should have "Create milestone Create release" links in the middle of the page | 13:10 |
| james_w | You want "Create release" | 13:11 |
| rodrigo_ | ok | 13:12 |
| seb128 | vuntz, thanks for bumping the abi now ;-) | 13:13 |
| seb128 | vuntz, happy new year to you too! | 13:13 |
| seb128 | not sure now if I said that before :-) | 13:14 |
| rodrigo_ | james_w: ok, works now, thanks for your help :) | 13:14 |
| james_w | np | 13:15 |
| === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow | ||
| seb128 | tedg, hey | 14:08 |
| tedg | Good morning seb128! | 14:08 |
| seb128 | how are you? | 14:08 |
| tedg | Doing well. Trying to get all of the alpha 2 goals done :) | 14:09 |
| seb128 | what goal do you have for that? | 14:09 |
| seb128 | is fixing the rhythmbox icon issue on this list? ;-) | 14:09 |
| tedg | Yes, that, and the ordering of application icons. | 14:10 |
| seb128 | bug fixing too? ;-) | 14:10 |
| tedg | We have no bugs. | 14:10 |
| seb128 | there is several bugs on the upstream component | 14:10 |
| seb128 | lol | 14:10 |
| seb128 | I see ;-) | 14:10 |
| tedg | The Rhythmbox patch has bugs? Or Rhythmbox itself? | 14:11 |
| seb128 | I would say your indicator has a bug | 14:11 |
| seb128 | it doesn't search for icons in the rhythmbox dir | 14:11 |
| * kenvandine thinks the there are bugs in the indicat* package/project naming | 14:11 | |
| kenvandine | :) | 14:11 |
| seb128 | which is not really a bug by itself but somewhat a design flaw or lack of option | 14:11 |
| seb128 | we discussed that before holidays ;-) | 14:12 |
| pitti | hey tedg, happy new year! | 14:12 |
| seb128 | tedg, we need a way to specify an extra icon lookup dir | 14:12 |
| pitti | oh, are you guys discussing the broken incidator icon when RB is running? | 14:12 |
| seb128 | pitti, yes | 14:12 |
| tedg | seb128: yes, I have a branch that already fixes that. It's just not complete enough to merge. | 14:12 |
| kenvandine | pitti, tedg is fixing it :) | 14:12 |
| seb128 | tedg, is that on the alpha2 schedule? | 14:13 |
| tedg | seb128: Yes | 14:13 |
| seb128 | it sucks to have a broken icon ;-) | 14:13 |
| seb128 | ok good | 14:13 |
| seb128 | tedg, I will let you work then ;-) | 14:13 |
| chrisccoulson | good afternoon everyone | 14:32 |
| istaz | seb128: pitti happy new year | 14:33 |
| seb128 | chrisccoulson, to you too! | 14:33 |
| seb128 | istaz, thanks, happy new year to you too! | 14:34 |
| istaz | pitti: if you have an Exception in a glib call back it doesn't crash the process | 14:34 |
| chrisccoulson | i've finished work for the day now, so i can do some ubuntu work instead :) | 14:34 |
| pitti | istaz: through dbus you mean? | 14:35 |
| pitti | istaz: happy new year, too! | 14:35 |
| istaz | pitti: no even with a timeout http://paste.debian.net/55675/ | 14:35 |
| istaz | but lot of error we get are from dus call yes | 14:35 |
| pitti | ah, interesting | 14:36 |
| pitti | so if you consider those "normal" in the msn backend, we should just add an apport hook to filter them out | 14:37 |
| pitti | I don't want to ignore them for all programs, since in the general case those are bugs | 14:37 |
| istaz | these are smalls bugs but non fatal ones. I'm actually ok if they get report in the unstable period since most of them should be fixed anyway | 14:39 |
| istaz | but not once the release is done | 14:40 |
| istaz | so what we currently have is ok | 14:40 |
| pitti | kenvandine: when you merge packages, please use debuild's -v option to include the relevant debian changelogs; i. e. -v<last version in ubuntu> | 14:50 |
| kenvandine | ah | 14:51 |
| kenvandine | ok | 14:51 |
| === robbiew_ is now known as robbiew | ||
| JamieBennett | Seems todays image for iMX51 boots to a GDM login screen, is this the same across the board for other images and is there a fix? | 14:58 |
| seb128 | JamieBennett, hi, not a very desktopish question, I don't know | 14:58 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, seb128, kenvandine, ccheney, etc... I'd like to get Bughugger into Universe, but Bughugger depends on Quidgets | 15:04 |
| rickspencer3 | I uploaded Quidgets to revu yesterday | 15:04 |
| kenvandine | rickspencer3, i will look over that in a bit | 15:04 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm sure the packaging is embarrassingly poor | 15:04 |
| kenvandine | hehe :) | 15:04 |
| pitti | it's not done with python-mkdebian? :-) | 15:05 |
| rickspencer3 | heh, I took the output of $quickly share and tinkered with it to make it match the documentation as best I could | 15:05 |
| === bjf-afk is now known as bjf | ||
| rickspencer3 | I had to make an "upstream" tarbarll and all this crazy stuff, ScottK and Laney had to help quite a bit | 15:06 |
| pitti | ./setup.py sdist | 15:06 |
| === Grantbow is now known as grantbow | ||
| dpm | hi pitti, I've just noticed that https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/loco-council-lucid-plans does not appear in the community burn-down chart. I guess it's because it hasn't got the 'community-lucid-' prefix in the spec's name. What's the best way to make it appear in the report? | 15:27 |
| pitti | dpm: either rename it, or I add it to the filter for community | 15:36 |
| pitti | the former would make it easier to search for the community specs on launchpad, but I don't mind either way | 15:36 |
| dpm | pitti, ok thanks. I didn't register it, so I'll just ask jono to rename it. | 15:38 |
| pitti | dpm: I can rename it as well if you want me to | 15:38 |
| dpm | pitti, if you could do that, that'd be great, thanks. The new name should then be community-lucid-loco-council-lucid-plans (i.e. just add the community-lucid- prefix) | 15:40 |
| pitti | dpm: oh, I had renamed it to c-l-loco-council-plans (not "lucid" two times) | 15:40 |
| dpm | pitti, that's absolutely perfect | 15:40 |
| pitti | done, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-lucid-loco-council-plans | 15:40 |
| dpm | awesome, thanks pitti | 15:41 |
| pitti | njpatel: do you happen to have an idea about the netbook-launcher crash in the live system? | 15:46 |
| seb128 | tedg, tedg1: how do you handle multi screen with the indicators? | 15:59 |
| tedg1 | seb128: ? What do you mean? | 16:00 |
| seb128 | vino does a get_screen on the notification area icon | 16:00 |
| seb128 | to know where to spawn things | 16:00 |
| seb128 | screen = gtk_status_icon_get_screen (GTK_STATUS_ICON (icon)); | 16:00 |
| seb128 | if (!gdk_spawn_command_line_on_screen (screen, "vino-preferences", &error)) | 16:00 |
| tedg1 | Why wouldn't it be the current screen? | 16:00 |
| njpatel | pitti: yes, I sent a patch to stevenk this morning (my time) which I think can fix it | 16:00 |
| seb128 | tedg1, ^ | 16:00 |
| njpatel | pitti: I believe it was late for him so he said he'll try it out when he's up | 16:01 |
| seb128 | tedg1, well, not sure why there is a gtk_status_icon_get_screen() if that's of no use ;-) | 16:01 |
| seb128 | they must have added the api for a reason | 16:01 |
| seb128 | tedg1, not sure why it wouldn't be the current screen, it's just there probably to ensure it's the current screen | 16:02 |
| seb128 | I guess it's a "don't bother and see if there is an issue or case where it breaks" | 16:03 |
| tedg1 | seb128: Yeah, the only case I could think of is where you'd want teh preferences on the same screen as the window. But, that wouldn't be the screen of the icon. | 16:04 |
| seb128 | is gtk_spawn_command smart when you don't specify a screen? | 16:05 |
| seb128 | or does it always use the first screen? | 16:05 |
| tedg1 | seb128: I'm not sure. GTK didn't have good screen support, but bratsche added some in this cycle. | 16:05 |
| tedg1 | seb128: I'm not sure that it *could have* been smart before :) | 16:05 |
| seb128 | what bratsche added is an api to get the primary screen right? | 16:06 |
| seb128 | in xrandr | 16:06 |
| mclasen | tedg1: really ? well, if you say so... | 16:07 |
| tedg1 | mclasen: I thought you couldn't get the primary screen before? | 16:07 |
| seb128 | tedg1, well getting you the primary xrandr screen doesn't solve this issue | 16:08 |
| ArneGoetje | ls | 16:09 |
| tedg1 | seb128: Oh, so if the panel wasn't on the primary screen? | 16:09 |
| tedg1 | That seems like an odd case. | 16:09 |
| bratsche | seb128, ted: Yeah, all I added was something to determine the primary screen. | 16:09 |
| tedg1 | I guess what you really want is the screen that the mouse is in. | 16:10 |
| bratsche | tedg1: The panel was using xrandr fu directly I think. But gdm was on the wrong screen. | 16:10 |
| seb128 | tedg1, right, but will that work if you don't spawn with a specific screen? | 16:10 |
| tedg1 | seb128: I'm not sure, but if not, we should fix spawn_command -- that should be the default. | 16:11 |
| seb128 | well, how can spawn command know? | 16:11 |
| tedg1 | bratsche: yeah, I was thinking spawn_command should use the primary screen -- but I think I'm over that now :) | 16:11 |
| tedg1 | seb128: Ask? :) | 16:11 |
| seb128 | to who? | 16:12 |
| seb128 | you can have UI components on 2 screen | 16:12 |
| tedg1 | X | 16:12 |
| seb128 | how X would know what widget you care about? | 16:12 |
| tedg1 | I guess you could have two mice. | 16:12 |
| bratsche | What's the problem here exactly? | 16:12 |
| tedg1 | I think it should be where the mouse is. | 16:12 |
| seb128 | bratsche, | 16:13 |
| seb128 | screen = gtk_status_icon_get_screen (GTK_STATUS_ICON (icon)); | 16:13 |
| seb128 | if (!gdk_spawn_command_line_on_screen (screen, "vino-preferences", &error)) | 16:13 |
| seb128 | bratsche, ^ vino does that | 16:13 |
| seb128 | I was wondering what is the equivalent with the indicator | 16:13 |
| seb128 | or if that's required | 16:13 |
| tseliot | isn't getting the primary screen possible only if the driver supports RandR 1.2 or 1.3? What happens with drivers that don't support it? Does gdm have fallbacks? | 16:13 |
| seb128 | and why | 16:13 |
| bratsche | tseliot: Fallback is 0. | 16:13 |
| tseliot | bratsche: ok, it makes sense. It's the best you can do in that case | 16:14 |
| tedg1 | Hmm, this is surprisingly complex. With the possibility of multiple monitors, multiple mice and multiple representations of the application indicator I think we have an complete set of complexity. | 16:16 |
| * bratsche tunes out and goes back to splitting drop-shadows out of c-s-d into another gtk branch :) | 16:17 | |
| tedg1 | I'm kinda thinking we have to pass the screen. Which seems like a horrible hack, and doesn't really work with things like twinview. | 16:17 |
| mclasen | passing a screen is kinda pointless when you are after a monitor | 16:18 |
| bratsche | nvidia supports xrandr monitor fu right? | 16:18 |
| bratsche | I forgot, but I think so. | 16:19 |
| tedg1 | I thought they were planning to. But, I haven't checked recently. | 16:21 |
| tseliot | bratsche: nouveau does while nvidia (the proprietary driver) only supports RandR 1.1 | 16:21 |
| bratsche | I've got two monitors setup right now, I can test in a little bit if you want. But I'm in the middle of branch surgery right now. :) | 16:21 |
| tseliot | fglrx supports RandR 1.2 | 16:23 |
| rickspencer3 | desktop team meeting in 3 minutes | 16:28 |
| rickspencer3 | right? | 16:28 |
| kenvandine | rickspencer3, yes | 16:28 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, now | 16:30 |
| rickspencer3 | ArneGoetje, bryyce, ccheney, kenvandine, pitti, seb128, tseliot | 16:30 |
| ccheney | hi | 16:30 |
| seb128 | there ;-) | 16:30 |
| rickspencer3 | who am I missing? | 16:30 |
| ArneGoetje | here | 16:30 |
| tseliot | here I am | 16:31 |
| * rickspencer3 taps gavel | 16:31 | |
| rickspencer3 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-01-05 | 16:31 |
| rickspencer3 | shall we start? | 16:31 |
| kenvandine | yup | 16:32 |
| * tseliot nods | 16:32 | |
| rickspencer3 | first item was outstanding items from last meeting | 16:32 |
| rickspencer3 | this was something about pitti creating a wiki for even attendance | 16:32 |
| rickspencer3 | Martin to create conference attendance wiki page and ask team for adding themselves to it by mail | 16:33 |
| rickspencer3 | did we do anything with that? | 16:33 |
| rickspencer3 | I can ping randa and see if she has everything she needs from us | 16:33 |
| rickspencer3 | has everyone indicated their interest in meetings to attend? | 16:33 |
| rickspencer3 | meetings, conferences, parties, etc... | 16:34 |
| seb128 | I didn't | 16:34 |
| * rickspencer3 tap tap, is this thing on? | 16:34 | |
| seb128 | I've not noticed any ping or wiki page or anything for that | 16:34 |
| kenvandine | hehe | 16:34 |
| kenvandine | there was something... | 16:34 |
| seb128 | I want to go to GUADEC though ;-) | 16:34 |
| ccheney | url? | 16:34 |
| rickspencer3 | ACTION: rickspencer3 to round up event attendance | 16:34 |
| rickspencer3 | let's take this into email | 16:34 |
| kenvandine | maybe an email | 16:34 |
| seb128 | I might have overspammed things when coming back | 16:34 |
| seb128 | I had some thousands spams in my inbox | 16:34 |
| tseliot | attendance? I think I missed this | 16:35 |
| rickspencer3 | tseliot, if you want to attend a conference or event next year, you can tell randa now, and it will be much easier for you to arrange | 16:35 |
| tseliot | rickspencer3: ah, ok | 16:35 |
| rickspencer3 | I'll send an email and we can get this done that way | 16:35 |
| rickspencer3 | shall we move on? | 16:35 |
| kenvandine | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-12-08 | 16:36 |
| kenvandine | there list is there... maybe he was going to move it somewhere | 16:36 |
| rickspencer3 | ok | 16:36 |
| rickspencer3 | kenvandine, partner update? | 16:36 |
| kenvandine | ok | 16:36 |
| kenvandine | there will be some more DX releases this week | 16:37 |
| kenvandine | which will cover what will end up in alpha2 | 16:37 |
| kenvandine | OLS won't have anything for the desktop in alpha2 | 16:37 |
| kenvandine | but they feel they are on track, mostly | 16:37 |
| kenvandine | some server side nightmares | 16:37 |
| kenvandine | but desktop stuff seems ok... even though their work items are trending the wrong way | 16:38 |
| kenvandine | they just added more work items to match reality, and plan to catch up | 16:38 |
| kenvandine | we will monitor that | 16:38 |
| kenvandine | but again, nothing from them until alpha3 | 16:38 |
| rickspencer3 | kenvandine, Dx seems rather over their trend-line | 16:38 |
| kenvandine | a bit | 16:38 |
| rickspencer3 | "a bit" seems maybe an underestimate | 16:39 |
| kenvandine | that is all i have for now | 16:39 |
| kenvandine | hehe... well not as bad as OLS | 16:39 |
| rickspencer3 | kenvandine, have they discussed what is going to be in for a2 versus what will be postponed? | 16:40 |
| kenvandine | we discussed that on monday | 16:40 |
| kenvandine | i haven't tried to line that up with what they have targeted work items wise though | 16:40 |
| kenvandine | we should do that so we can adjust work items accordingly | 16:40 |
| rickspencer3 | ok | 16:41 |
| rickspencer3 | I have a meeting with dbarth tomorrow, I'll discuss with him tomorrow and let the desktop team know if I learn anything new | 16:41 |
| rickspencer3 | next is Kubuntu update, but Riddell is on vacation | 16:41 |
| rickspencer3 | so ccheney, Mozilla update? | 16:41 |
| ccheney | i am currently working on backporting epiphany-browser along with its dependencies: libsoup2.4, webkit, etc | 16:42 |
| ccheney | they use newer glib2.0 than what is in hardy but currently trying to copy the needed functions over so we won't need a full backport of glib as well | 16:43 |
| ccheney | as per asac's recommendation | 16:43 |
| seb128 | urg | 16:43 |
| seb128 | that seems crazy to backport all that stack | 16:43 |
| === \vish is now known as mac_v | ||
| === mac_v is now known as \vish | ||
| ccheney | seb128: yea its leaning towards crazy as more things get added to what needs backporting :-\ | 16:44 |
| pitti | argh, sorry | 16:44 |
| rickspencer3 | ccheney, are you concerned that it won't get done? | 16:44 |
| pitti | was stuck in gdm debugging, there now | 16:44 |
| seb128 | it's rather than it could break quite some things | 16:44 |
| rickspencer3 | do we have a contingency plan? | 16:44 |
| seb128 | I'm concerned how much that can break | 16:45 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, well, the situation, as discussed at UDS, is not good | 16:45 |
| seb128 | those libs are not known to have only minor limited changes | 16:45 |
| asac | to understand how risky it is, we need to know what needs to be backported | 16:45 |
| ccheney | rickspencer3: breakage plus complication added to the fact that there are lot more than just epiphany that needs changing to get rid of xulrunner depends | 16:45 |
| seb128 | well I would not jeopardize desktop stability for a web browser | 16:45 |
| seb128 | which is not our default one | 16:46 |
| ccheney | backporting the entirety of glib would cause problems with symbol versioning, right? | 16:46 |
| rickspencer3 | asac, ccheney, if there is too much to backport, or it just doesn't work well, do we have a contingency plan? | 16:46 |
| seb128 | but well I'm out of this one | 16:46 |
| seb128 | just raising warnings that it seems risky | 16:46 |
| seb128 | I would rather drop epiphany support than break desktop just to update it | 16:46 |
| asac | rickspencer3: we should think about when we get there. | 16:46 |
| asac | dropping epiphany support is definitly the last result | 16:47 |
| asac | resort | 16:47 |
| asac | but thats really low on the option list imo. | 16:47 |
| seb128 | can't you use static copies or something? | 16:47 |
| rickspencer3 | asac, I would rather know that we have a contingency plan | 16:47 |
| rickspencer3 | ccheney, ^ | 16:47 |
| seb128 | rather than risk stability for system libs? | 16:47 |
| asac | so far i didnt see anything uncovered that needs to backport changes to existing glib functions ... just new once | 16:47 |
| asac | ones | 16:47 |
| seb128 | I'm rather concerned about the libsoup and webkit updates | 16:47 |
| pitti | we could copy the newer source package and fake the ABI version? | 16:48 |
| rickspencer3 | is dropping epiphany support the contingency plan? seems rather not what we promised | 16:48 |
| seb128 | not about adding functions to glib | 16:48 |
| asac | seb128: those will go in using a different name | 16:48 |
| seb128 | oh ok | 16:48 |
| pitti | like, introduce a newer fake abi for the hardy backports? | 16:48 |
| asac | its just glib and gtk we cannot treat that way | 16:48 |
| ccheney | pitti: yea we were planning on changing the soname for them | 16:48 |
| asac | because of plugins | 16:48 |
| seb128 | fine with me then | 16:48 |
| seb128 | I was under the impression you wanted to update system libsoup webkit etc | 16:48 |
| asac | no thats not the case | 16:48 |
| seb128 | ignore my comments | 16:48 |
| seb128 | ok good | 16:48 |
| asac | i just want to ensure that webkit and libsoup can be build without upgrading glib/gtk ... but those libs will get a new package name | 16:49 |
| seb128 | ok | 16:49 |
| rickspencer3 | ccheney, so next week you can tell us how the backporting went? | 16:49 |
| ccheney | rickspencer3: yes | 16:49 |
| rickspencer3 | what is the next step after the backporting of epiphany? | 16:50 |
| pitti | there's also at least devhelp | 16:50 |
| asac | we have a huge list of rdepends. not all are required to be moved away | 16:51 |
| asac | from xulrunner ... only those that are exposed to insecure content | 16:51 |
| pitti | asac: ah, that'd help | 16:51 |
| asac | devhelp is probably not a high prio candidate | 16:51 |
| pitti | devhelp and yelp can stay as they are then, I figure | 16:51 |
| ccheney | i have to get libsoup2.4 rebuilt in two ways due to a circular dependency then see what breaks next in epiphany build and test it afterwards | 16:51 |
| asac | yes. libsoup2.4 needs bootstrapping | 16:52 |
| rickspencer3 | ok, so sounds quite some effort for ccheney on epiph. and libsoup this week | 16:52 |
| rickspencer3 | thanks for the update | 16:52 |
| rickspencer3 | moving on? | 16:52 |
| ccheney | ok | 16:52 |
| rickspencer3 | release status | 16:52 |
| rickspencer3 | so, we are over the trend line in work items, and we have picked a few up | 16:53 |
| rickspencer3 | I went through the list and it appeared that bryyce and kenvandine had the toughest ratios lef | 16:53 |
| rickspencer3 | t | 16:53 |
| kenvandine | :( | 16:53 |
| pitti | uh, today there actually was an increase in WIs | 16:54 |
| kenvandine | i will re-evaluate what is left in social-from-the-start tomorrow, hopefully after all the couch stuff is merged | 16:54 |
| rickspencer3 | kenvandine, bryyce can you guys go through and postpone work items that aren't going to get done for a2? | 16:54 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, I noticed that, I edited a blueprint or two to move things off the milestone, I wonder if I tweaked something the wrong way | 16:55 |
| rickspencer3 | in any case ... | 16:55 |
| rickspencer3 | the reason I am looking at work items is that I am also looking at bugs | 16:55 |
| rickspencer3 | and we need to get ready for a3 work items | 16:55 |
| rickspencer3 | I would like to suggest that we choose a number which is some fraction of the number of work items we *completed* in a2 | 16:56 |
| rickspencer3 | and limit our a3 work items to that number | 16:56 |
| rickspencer3 | and basically assume that we will do few work items for beta 2 | 16:56 |
| rickspencer3 | this will force some serious selectivity sooner rather than later | 16:57 |
| rickspencer3 | thoughts? | 16:57 |
| pitti | we have some 390 WIs left for final lucid | 16:57 |
| pitti | so this means to drop BP targets aggressively | 16:57 |
| pitti | (like all the low ones) | 16:57 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm guessing that we'll achieve about 80 or 90 | 16:57 |
| rickspencer3 | in a2 | 16:57 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, right | 16:58 |
| rickspencer3 | it's just the facts of our capacity ... we could shoot for 390 work items, but if we have measures that suggest that isn't doable, perhaps we can address that situation now | 16:58 |
| rickspencer3 | I'd rather disappoint people than surprise them | 16:58 |
| rickspencer3 | (at least not surprise them in a bad way) | 16:59 |
| rickspencer3 | and I' | 16:59 |
| pitti | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-touchscreen-handling | 16:59 |
| pitti | that has 22 WIs and is low | 16:59 |
| pitti | and just a target of opportunity anyway | 16:59 |
| rickspencer3 | d also like to ensure that we have plenty of bandwidth for bug fixing and integration | 16:59 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, right, good point, we can just defer that whole blueprint | 16:59 |
| * rickspencer3 wipes tear from eye | 16:59 | |
| pitti | many of those on http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/report.html are from Kubuntu, though | 16:59 |
| rickspencer3 | all: what are your thoughts on this approach? | 16:59 |
| tseliot | things should be easier when I receive the new touchscreen but yes, I doubt it will be ready in time for Lucid | 17:00 |
| rickspencer3 | seb128, kenvandine: thoughts on limiting the number of work items based on the number we got down in a2? | 17:01 |
| kenvandine | rickspencer3, i think we need to look at them based on the individuals load | 17:02 |
| pitti | if we include all the "high" ones, we should have a decent amount of work | 17:02 |
| bryyce | heya | 17:02 |
| rickspencer3 | like each person measures their own capacity based on a2? | 17:02 |
| pitti | hey bryyce, happy new year! | 17:02 |
| rickspencer3 | hiya bryyce | 17:02 |
| rickspencer3 | kenvandine, like each person measures their own capacity based on a2? | 17:02 |
| pitti | how about I run through the list and make a proposal for alpha-3 targetting next week? | 17:02 |
| kenvandine | sort of... | 17:03 |
| pitti | (based on individual capacity and alpha-2 items) | 17:03 |
| kenvandine | like how big the work item is | 17:03 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, <3 | 17:03 |
| rickspencer3 | that would rock | 17:03 |
| kenvandine | and how if one person has like 90 | 17:03 |
| pitti | seems easier than figuring it out in a meeting | 17:03 |
| kenvandine | yeah | 17:03 |
| rickspencer3 | well, I thought we should discuss the approach as a team | 17:03 |
| pitti | erm, and based on priority, too, of course | 17:03 |
| kenvandine | yeah | 17:03 |
| pitti | right, we should | 17:03 |
| rickspencer3 | seems that it impacts the way people work and their commitments | 17:03 |
| kenvandine | we should each look at what is on our plate though and weed out the noise to make the big picture easier to digest | 17:04 |
| rickspencer3 | ACTION: pitti to propose a3 work item list based on measured capacity in a2, priority, and work item size | 17:04 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti ^ sound about right? | 17:05 |
| pitti | *nod* | 17:05 |
| rickspencer3 | speaking of noise | 17:05 |
| * rickspencer3 subtly moves on | 17:05 | |
| rickspencer3 | I ran a query yesterday ... | 17:05 |
| rickspencer3 | for all the packages that someone on the the desktop team is subscribed to | 17:05 |
| rickspencer3 | what are the bug tasks on each of those packages? | 17:05 |
| rickspencer3 | the list is almost 15,000 | 17:06 |
| rickspencer3 | ! | 17:06 |
| rickspencer3 | !!! | 17:06 |
| pitti | that doesn't say much, though | 17:06 |
| asac | some are subscribed to whole ubuntu maybe? | 17:06 |
| pitti | I subscribe to each bug I comment on | 17:06 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, this is *packages* | 17:06 |
| pitti | oh, that's package bug contact or explicit sub? | 17:06 |
| pitti | ah | 17:06 |
| rickspencer3 | I haven't had a chance to slice and dice the data, but it tells me that the desktop has lots of bugs | 17:07 |
| rickspencer3 | well, bug reports anyway | 17:07 |
| rickspencer3 | so I'm hoping that we can use this to hone in on any areas that maybe need a bit more attention or such | 17:07 |
| asac | 15k source packages really feels like someone or more than one have signed up for whole ubuntu | 17:07 |
| rickspencer3 | asac, 15,000 bug tasks | 17:08 |
| pitti | I think that was 15k bugs, wasn't it? | 17:08 |
| asac | ah | 17:08 |
| rickspencer3 | related to subscribed packages | 17:08 |
| rickspencer3 | anyway, if anyone wants to list, I can can attach it to the wiki | 17:08 |
| rickspencer3 | ACTION: rickspencer3 to attach mondo bug list to wiki | 17:08 |
| rickspencer3 | also, please note that we have 46 bugs with status of New that are assigned to someone on the desktop team | 17:09 |
| rickspencer3 | and we also have 62 assigned bugs that are Critical or High | 17:09 |
| rickspencer3 | so I am keen to find the right ratio of work items to bug fixing in a3 | 17:10 |
| rickspencer3 | any thoughts on the New or High+ lists? | 17:10 |
| * bryyce ponders | 17:10 | |
| pitti | triaging 62 bugs seems entirely doable | 17:10 |
| pitti | and almost in the range of the permanent turnover? | 17:11 |
| bryyce | could be | 17:11 |
| pitti | 46 I mean | 17:11 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, right | 17:11 |
| rickspencer3 | that's fine | 17:11 |
| pitti | but we do need more time to attack assigned bugs | 17:12 |
| rickspencer3 | I'll look through them and see if there are any that should be "won't fix" or otherwise not assigned | 17:12 |
| bryyce | if the 62 assigned bugs are mostly High, that probably is not to be too concerned with; I imagine most of our bugs should be of at least high priority | 17:12 |
| pitti | (like what you said when proposing to drop targets) | 17:12 |
| bryyce | but if a significant number are Critical, that may be a bigger deal | 17:12 |
| rickspencer3 | there are 3 critical bugs | 17:13 |
| pitti | kenvandine: thaks for fixing the whiteboard; http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid-alpha2/report.html looks better now | 17:13 |
| kenvandine | :) | 17:13 |
| bryyce | ok, 3 sounds pretty good actually | 17:13 |
| rickspencer3 | great | 17:13 |
| seb128 | re | 17:13 |
| seb128 | sorry I missed the end of the meeting | 17:13 |
| rickspencer3 | so let's continue to explore how we can be more efficient at finding the right bugs to fix | 17:14 |
| seb128 | the wifi driver crashed or something to way to reconnect, so I rebooted | 17:14 |
| bryyce | how often are the burn charts regenerated? hourly? | 17:14 |
| rickspencer3 | any other business? | 17:14 |
| seb128 | and empty screen for 15 minutes | 17:14 |
| pitti | bryyce: hourly, yes | 17:14 |
| seb128 | I though it was doing a fsck or something and did reboot again after a while since it was using cpu | 17:14 |
| pitti | bryyce: (but I just kicked off a run manually after seeing kenvandine's whiteboard fixes) | 17:14 |
| bryyce | ah | 17:15 |
| kenvandine | it doesn't make sense for a blueprint to have a milestone target of alpha-2 with work items in alpha-3 and beta-1 :) | 17:15 |
| rickspencer3 | is that a wrap? | 17:16 |
| pitti | rickspencer3: so after beta-1, we would ideally have 0 work items from blueprints, and 100% time for bug fixing | 17:16 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, that is my thought, yes | 17:16 |
| ArneGoetje | rickspencer3: my bugs on that High list are all for Hardy, they don't apply to Lucid. | 17:16 |
| rickspencer3 | ArneGoetje, but they take time and attention | 17:16 |
| pitti | rickspencer3: which will blatantly not be true for e. g. kenvandine, since DX/OLS stuff will keep coming; but we could at least try | 17:16 |
| rickspencer3 | if you are not going to fix them, you should close them | 17:16 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, well, I would say "bug fixing and integration" | 17:16 |
| kenvandine | yeah... for me that will be the busy time :/ | 17:16 |
| pitti | not close, unassign please | 17:16 |
| pitti | kenvandine: well, your busy time in lucid is between October and April, right? | 17:17 |
| kenvandine | hehe | 17:17 |
| kenvandine | feb/march is when stuff gets crammed down my throat that i might not have been expecting :) | 17:17 |
| * kenvandine doesn't think that will be the case this time ... maybe just wishful thinking :) | 17:18 | |
| rickspencer3 | ok, I think that's a wrap? | 17:18 |
| * rickspencer3 lifts gavel | 17:18 | |
| * rickspencer3 positions gavel | 17:18 | |
| * kenvandine knocks it out of rickspencer3's hand | 17:19 | |
| * rickspencer3 lovingly polishes handle of gavel | 17:19 | |
| tseliot | :-D | 17:19 |
| rickspencer3 | aaah | 17:19 |
| kenvandine | :) | 17:19 |
| rickspencer3 | I would tap the gavel, but I am too lazy to pick it off the floor | 17:19 |
| rickspencer3 | thanks everybody! | 17:19 |
| bryyce | thanks | 17:19 |
| kenvandine | hehe | 17:19 |
| pitti | thanks all | 17:20 |
| seb128 | thanks | 17:20 |
| tseliot | thanks | 17:20 |
| rickspencer3 | going to get some breakfast, bbiab | 17:20 |
| kenvandine | time for lunch :) | 17:21 |
| === \vish is now known as vish | ||
| === pedro__ is now known as pedro_ | ||
| rickspencer3 | ArneGoetje, bryyce, ccheney, kenvandine, pitti, seb128, tseliot: I forgot mention, today is the last day for me to sign off on 2009 expense reports | 17:37 |
| tseliot | thanks for mentioning it | 17:38 |
| rickspencer3 | so I'll check for them before I log off tonight | 17:38 |
| bryyce | rickspencer3, pretty sure all mine are in | 17:45 |
| kenvandine | rickspencer3, mine are done :) | 18:31 |
| seb128 | asac, is gnome-bluetooth still on your todolist? | 18:42 |
| Martinp23 | i've got working branch for bug 499992 , but it has a build dep on the new vte (which is uploaded), however that failed to build on powerpc because the buildd was, i think, out of order. What should happen next? | 18:50 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 499992 in gnome-terminal "Update gnome-terminal to 2.29.1" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499992 | 18:50 |
| seb128 | don't bother about transitional build issues on powerpc for updates | 18:56 |
| Martinp23 | yay, ok. If you (or anyone) gets a few minutes could you review my update (linked from the bug) please? :) | 18:58 |
| seb128 | could you subscribe the ubuntu-main-sponsors to it? | 18:59 |
| seb128 | I'm about to go for dinner | 18:59 |
| seb128 | but somebody might pick it up from the sponsoring list | 18:59 |
| Martinp23 | sure :) | 19:04 |
| asac | bryyce: do we support any usb to vga adapter oob? | 19:19 |
| bryyce | asac, not afaik unless upstream slipped in support recently | 19:21 |
| asac | seb128: yes. i reviewed it and had only one thing i wasnt sure | 19:41 |
| asac | seb128: but i couldnt figure how to reproduce that corner case, so the merge as it is can go up | 19:41 |
| seb128 | asac, go go go ;-) | 19:42 |
| asac | let me do it ... still have 5 minutes before taxi is picking me up for some snow travel ;) | 19:42 |
| asac | who knows if i ever return :-P | 19:42 |
| seb128 | lol | 19:42 |
| seb128 | you should go there is no hurry | 19:43 |
| seb128 | I'm sure you will return ;-) | 19:43 |
| bratsche | Good luck! :) | 19:43 |
| pitti | kenvandine: I'm retargeting social-from-the-start to alpha-2, otherwise it falls off the alpha-2 work item report completely (it only scans BPs targetted to alpha2) | 19:44 |
| kenvandine | pitti, oh... i guess that is why it was that way | 19:45 |
| asac | ok ... guess i really have to run :/ | 19:45 |
| asac | cu in a few | 19:45 |
| charlie-tca | seb128: question about Abiword? Abiword 2.8 was synced a couple of weeks ago, for lucid. However, it has dependencies in both main and universe. Are the universe dependencies still needed? | 20:05 |
| === eeejay is now known as eeejay_away | ||
| === eeejay_away is now known as eeejay | ||
| heret1c | hello :-) | 20:28 |
| heret1c | wither no #ubuntu-networkingwifi? | 20:28 |
| pitti | bryyce: I think https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-driver-selection-for-nvidia-hardware should land early or not at all in lucid; do you think we should put it on the alpha-3 list? (it would be your first and only alpha-3 blueprint, but I'm not sure what else is on your plate) | 20:31 |
| heret1c | #ubuntu-networking/wifi | 20:32 |
| bryyce | pitti, at this point mostly it's up to the kernel team | 20:32 |
| bryyce | pitti, I agree sooner is better. leave it targeted at alpha3, I'll make sure we come to a conclusion with it by then. | 20:33 |
| pitti | bryyce: right, so that will at least keep it on our radar; I'm inclined to say that if it's not there by a3, we postpone it to lucid+1, WDYT? | 20:33 |
| bryyce | pitti, agreed | 20:38 |
| seb128 | charlie-tca, I don't know I pinged some xubuntu guys to ask if they want to sort this issue | 20:39 |
| seb128 | didn't really get a reply | 20:40 |
| seb128 | I don't care enough abiword to write a mir for it | 20:40 |
| charlie-tca | I am trying to find out about it for them. You were down as the person to talk to. | 20:41 |
| heret1c | may networking issues be raised/solved here? | 20:45 |
| chrisccoulson | heret1c - #ubuntu for support | 20:49 |
| heret1c | 1482 users | 20:50 |
| heret1c | abysmal noise/signal ratio. | 20:50 |
| charlie-tca | heret1c: sometimes ##beginners-help can help | 20:51 |
| heret1c | charlie-tca: not listed, afaics. | 20:54 |
| johanbr | charlie-tca, do you know what the dependencies in universe are? | 20:55 |
| charlie-tca | sorry, heret1c. I tried | 20:55 |
| charlie-tca | johanbr: no, I just got told by Lionel about it. | 20:56 |
| charlie-tca | He said he will try to work it this weekend | 20:56 |
| seb128 | re | 21:09 |
| seb128 | charlie-tca, either move abiword to universe or find somebody interested to get the build-depends sorted | 21:10 |
| charlie-tca | Working on that. Thanks | 21:10 |
| charlie-tca | we will get it sorted out | 21:12 |
| seb128 | thank you | 21:13 |
| charlie-tca | no problem | 21:15 |
| charlie-tca | as long as we know what is happening, we can work it out | 21:16 |
| === bjf is now known as bjf-afk | ||
| pitti | good night everyone | 21:50 |
| chrisccoulson | good night pitti | 21:51 |
| rickspencer3 | oops lost track of time | 22:03 |
| rickspencer3 | hi TheMuso | 22:03 |
| TheMuso | rickspencer3: Hey there. How was your break? | 22:05 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, it was nice | 22:06 |
| rickspencer3 | seemed very long (in a good way) | 22:06 |
| rickspencer3 | with lots of family time and lots of fun hacking | 22:06 |
| rickspencer3 | how about you, TheMuso? | 22:06 |
| TheMuso | Also nice thanks, we had a nice wet Christmas day, which was a nice change from the hot Christmas days we usually have. It was also great to catch up with family, and be away from the computer. | 22:06 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, so, we're so supposed to have the Eastern Edition now, but I think it's just you an dme | 22:07 |
| TheMuso | rickspencer3: RIght, I am just reading through the wiki page now. | 22:08 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, I hadn't updated it from the meeting | 22:08 |
| * rickspencer3 looks | 22:08 | |
| TheMuso | right, explains why its a little empty. | 22:09 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, right, I was too busy this morning with last minute filing of three months of expenses | 22:10 |
| rickspencer3 | :/ | 22:10 |
| rickspencer3 | so, here's quick summary .... | 22:10 |
| TheMuso | heh | 22:10 |
| TheMuso | ok | 22:10 |
| rickspencer3 | 1. I'll take the whole "what conferences do you want to attend" thing to email | 22:10 |
| TheMuso | ok | 22:10 |
| rickspencer3 | 2. pitti has put together a draft a3 work plan for work items | 22:10 |
| rickspencer3 | essentially, I would like us to try for *fewer* work items in a3 than we went for in a2 to allow for plenty of time for bug fixing and integration | 22:11 |
| TheMuso | Right, I saw that amil. | 22:11 |
| rickspencer3 | then for the last iteration, we don't do any of our own work items, but rather focus on bug fixing and integration | 22:12 |
| rickspencer3 | this means that lots of stuff we were hoping to do we will postpone probably in the next week or so | 22:12 |
| TheMuso | Right. | 22:12 |
| rickspencer3 | but I would rather disappoint than surprise with features, and deliver good quality | 22:12 |
| rickspencer3 | that's the current thought process anyway, we discussed it a bit this morning | 22:12 |
| rickspencer3 | we are also way over the trend line atm for a2 | 22:13 |
| rickspencer3 | we are at around 27 when we should be around 13 | 22:13 |
| TheMuso | Ok sounds good, I've been burried in hda code the last couple of days, but plan to hit up all audio package bug lists to see if there is anything lying around that can be addressed that we have looked over. | 22:13 |
| rickspencer3 | we'll see what happens | 22:13 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, sounds good | 22:14 |
| rickspencer3 | in fact, I wanted to discuss this with you a bit | 22:14 |
| TheMuso | rickspencer3: sure. | 22:14 |
| rickspencer3 | in the same way that kenvandine reports on partners, and Riddell reports on Kubuntu each week ... | 22:14 |
| rickspencer3 | that is with just a few bullet point summary ... | 22:14 |
| rickspencer3 | I would like to see something similar for audio | 22:15 |
| TheMuso | Right, I'll have a go at getting something like that ready for next week, once I've gone through audio bugs. | 22:15 |
| rickspencer3 | something that is very easy for you to report, but without getting bogged down in rendering 3d graphs and such | 22:15 |
| rickspencer3 | ^Dilbert reference | 22:15 |
| TheMuso | Sure. | 22:15 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, any thoughts as to what might be interesting to report in that manner? | 22:16 |
| TheMuso | rickspencer3: Probably just what is going on audio stack wise, and new issues arrising from several bug reports/commonly reported issues with lucid/karmic/etc. | 22:17 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, sounds good | 22:17 |
| TheMuso | rickspencer3: If you or anyone else have anything in mind, I'd be happy to hear the suggestion. | 22:17 |
| rickspencer3 | let's just see how it goes next week | 22:18 |
| rickspencer3 | so, we ccheney discussed Mozilla as well | 22:18 |
| TheMuso | Right. | 22:18 |
| rickspencer3 | looks like he has some tough backporting to do to Hardy | 22:18 |
| TheMuso | I also just saw your mail re his taking ownership of that b lueprint. | 22:18 |
| rickspencer3 | yeah, poor ccheney ;) | 22:18 |
| * ccheney isn't even sure if the glib cut/paste job is even a good idea due to security update implications of it | 22:19 | |
| rickspencer3 | it was good of him to step in and help us with that | 22:19 |
| rickspencer3 | ccheney, what do you mean? | 22:19 |
| * ccheney is having to cut/paste a large chunk of code out of glib that is newer than what is in hardy into libsoup | 22:19 | |
| ccheney | seems to be nearly all the networking related code in glib but maybe that is just my impression :) | 22:20 |
| rickspencer3 | what specific components rely on the new glib functions? | 22:21 |
| ccheney | soup needs a lot of the newer code that is only available in glib 2.22 and higher and asac/seb128 didn't think it would be a good idea to try to backport glib itself so to just copy the code, but i'm not sure if that is really a good idea longterm | 22:21 |
| rickspencer3 | "long term" = so long as we support Hardy, right? | 22:22 |
| ccheney | seems a lot of it, i have about 20 functions to copy over along with helper definitions, etc just for soup, from what i recall webkit needs some new glib functions as well | 22:22 |
| rickspencer3 | so you are putting these new functions directly into the backported soup, right? | 22:22 |
| ccheney | rickspencer3: yea, i don't know how often security issues are found in glib so it might not be a real problem | 22:22 |
| ccheney | yes | 22:22 |
| rickspencer3 | so then if a security issue comes up in glib, you'll have to check if it impacts the code you moved to soup, right? | 22:23 |
| ccheney | i put them into a glib-copy file to be included by parts that need it | 22:23 |
| ccheney | yea | 22:23 |
| rickspencer3 | this is *exactly* the life that asac has been living with mozilla for years ;) | 22:23 |
| ccheney | heh | 22:23 |
| ccheney | well and the fact of are we going to have to replicate these copies for everything we backport | 22:24 |
| rickspencer3 | so then it should bleed off over time as we in place upgrade mozilla rather than backport security patches to versions they don't support | 22:24 |
| ccheney | and i'm a little unclear as to if i backport these glib functions for each library that need them will there will be a collision issue between eg soup, webkit, etc each having the same functions in them? | 22:24 |
| rickspencer3 | well, I think the idea is to get soup working asap and see what we learn from that | 22:25 |
| ccheney | well we won't really know if it is working properly until we have soup, webit, proxy and epiphany-browser all backported, i think | 22:26 |
| ccheney | pitti: if i copy functions into the source of libraries that use each other will that cause a symbol collision/breakage when i try to run them? | 22:27 |
| rickspencer3 | ccheney, but after you do soup, won't the others be very easy? | 22:28 |
| ccheney | rickspencer3: i think webkit has the potential to be as hard, it might not be too bad if it ends up using the same functions though | 22:28 |
| rickspencer3 | ok | 22:28 |
| rickspencer3 | ccheney, so how long to do all four? | 22:29 |
| ccheney | and i am a little vague on as to if this will work at all due to symbol collision | 22:29 |
| rickspencer3 | are you planning on getting that all done for next week | 22:29 |
| chrisccoulson | ccheney - it should be ok as long as you're not declaring the functions in any public headers shouldn't it? | 22:29 |
| * chrisccoulson thinks | 22:29 | |
| ccheney | i am going to try to, i don't know if there are more libraries after these four that need work as well, i got to four when it failed | 22:29 |
| ccheney | chrisccoulson: i'm not sure how it works for c, iirc on c++ that is true | 22:30 |
| james_w | as long as the symbols are provided by exactly one shared object at runtime you should be ok | 22:30 |
| james_w | there are obviously ABI concerns as well | 22:30 |
| rickspencer3 | well, it seems that we wouldn't get very far if no program could have a library with a function call named the same as in another program, so I am not too worried | 22:30 |
| ccheney | james_w: hmm thats what i thought to, since every library will have a copy of the functions in them i think it will end up colliding | 22:31 |
| james_w | ccheney: yeah, that's not going to work | 22:31 |
| james_w | only one public symbol can live in each process | 22:31 |
| ccheney | i suppose i will need to find all the functions needed and then make a new library package that they all use | 22:32 |
| TheMuso | rickspencer3: Anything else from the meeting that I should know about? :) | 22:32 |
| chrisccoulson | the functions aren't being exposed publicly though are they? | 22:32 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, nope, just we are still dicsussing mozilla support ;) | 22:32 |
| rickspencer3 | thanks TheMuso | 22:32 |
| james_w | ccheney: why do they need to go in to several libraries? | 22:32 |
| chrisccoulson | you just want to add the functions statically to your libraries, without exposing them publicly? | 22:32 |
| james_w | ccheney: if they are going in to one, why can't the others use that one? | 22:32 |
| ccheney | james_w: hmm well would have to change the build dependencies of the packages to link against each other i think | 22:34 |
| ccheney | chrisccoulson: yea that would work too | 22:34 |
| james_w | ccheney: why not backport them to glib? | 22:35 |
| james_w | you are taking the code back anyway, why not do it once and put it in the library they all use anyway | 22:35 |
| ccheney | james_w: hmm i guess we could do that :) | 22:35 |
| james_w | there should be very little risk from backporting new code | 22:35 |
| * ccheney isn't actually sure why we don't just backport the new glib as is | 22:35 | |
| james_w | if seb doesn't think it's a good idea to backport the changes to existing functions then don't backport those bits | 22:35 |
| chrisccoulson | i think seb128 has reservations about backporting the whole of glib | 22:36 |
| ccheney | chrisccoulson: yea | 22:36 |
| james_w | that's reliant on the two things not being tied together, but if they are you are stuck anyway | 22:36 |
| ccheney | ok i'll try to create a diff of old glib to new and drop anything that changes existing functions | 22:36 |
| chrisccoulson | ccheney - that might be quite a big task ;) | 22:37 |
| chrisccoulson | there's a lot of commits between the 2 versions you are going to diff | 22:37 |
| ccheney | hmm yea i haven't look to see how huge the diff is :) | 22:37 |
| chrisccoulson | it won't be small | 22:37 |
| ccheney | wow yea that is a big diff | 22:39 |
| asac | ccheney: whats the current prob? | 22:43 |
| ccheney | asac: more and more things keep needing to be added | 22:46 |
| ccheney | i think by the time i get to epiphany itself i will probably nearly need new glib itself | 22:46 |
| ccheney | the functions pulled in lots of other things and still working on trying to get it to stop asking for more bits | 22:46 |
| ccheney | and epiphany also needs new gtk along with new glib so there will likely be huge amounts of things needing to be pulled in by the time i get to it | 22:47 |
| ccheney | whats the downside of dropping epiphany? :) | 22:48 |
| asac | it would set a bad precendence ... .prematuraly EOL for software we committed to support | 22:48 |
| ccheney | isn't epiphany in universe? | 22:49 |
| asac | since karmic | 22:49 |
| ccheney | oh it used to be in main, but main doesn't necessarily equal supported as i keep getting reminded, so was that in the supported subset? | 22:50 |
| asac | before that its in main | 22:50 |
| asac | yes | 22:50 |
| asac | main usually is supported | 22:50 |
| asac | it was seeded on dvd | 22:50 |
| ccheney | oh | 22:50 |
| asac | i wouldnt suggest all this if there was an easy way ;) | 22:51 |
| ccheney | so how do we tell if something is supported, if it is on the dvd? :) i forgot how to determine it other than its just not all of main | 22:52 |
| asac | short: main | 22:53 |
| * ccheney will see how it goes with just copying in the files that soup uses into glib | 22:54 | |
| asac | its definitly support if seeded in a suppported product or in the "supported" seed | 22:54 |
| asac | if you copy full files you will certainly pick up more garbage. | 22:55 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, ccheney, desktoppers ... | 22:57 |
| rickspencer3 | do you guys know bjf-afk ? | 22:57 |
| ccheney | no | 22:58 |
| rickspencer3 | he's on the kernel team, but is focused on helping desktop for Lucid | 22:58 |
| ccheney | cool :) | 22:58 |
| === bjf-afk is now known as bjf | ||
| rickspencer3 | mostly audio, I think | 22:58 |
| rickspencer3 | I woke him up ;_ | 22:58 |
| ccheney | bjf: please also fix disk io causes system to stall bug :) | 22:58 |
| bjf | yawn! | 22:58 |
| rickspencer3 | TheMuso, have you and bjf worked together at all? | 22:58 |
| ccheney | that causes audio problems too i think so could fall under that :) | 22:59 |
| ccheney | asac: is this the proper seed? https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.hardy | 22:59 |
| chrisccoulson | ccheney - you have those problems too? ;) | 22:59 |
| ccheney | chrisccoulson: for years | 22:59 |
| bjf | I've been working on "crack-of-the-day" builds for both lucid and karmic, I've tried to keep TheMuso in the loop | 22:59 |
| ccheney | bad enough to nearly drive me back to windows | 22:59 |
| bjf | ccheney, what's the bug number? | 22:59 |
| chrisccoulson | ccheney - that must be really bad :( | 22:59 |
| ccheney | bjf: not sure, i'll have to look around and forward to you, its been happening for years, i hear rumors the new lucid kernel might finally fix it though | 23:00 |
| ccheney | chrisccoulson: yea any high disk io usually causes my system to totally grey out nothing works until its done | 23:00 |
| chrisccoulson | ccheney - yeah, my system does that too | 23:00 |
| ccheney | chrisccoulson: easiest way to reproduce it is to do a torrent file check | 23:00 |
| bjf | ccheney, I think we've all run into it one time or another (other distros have the same issue I've heard) | 23:01 |
| ccheney | bjf: yea, aiui some new patch from con kolivas might help | 23:02 |
| * ccheney needs to upgrade to lucid and test it on a test machine | 23:02 | |
| ccheney | bjf: so you are also working on quirks i guess? | 23:02 |
| asac | ccheney: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.hardy/annotate/head:/dvd | 23:03 |
| bjf | ccheney, yup | 23:03 |
| ccheney | asac: ah | 23:04 |
| TheMuso | bjf: Yeah I got your mail. | 23:06 |
| TheMuso | bjf: I am wondering whether we should move them to the audio-dev team ppa. I have also meant to add you to that team. Whats your lp username? | 23:06 |
| bjf | TheMuso, "brad-figg" | 23:07 |
| * ccheney mutters about evil dvd seed ;-) | 23:08 | |
| asac | ccheney: you should mutter about the attitude of developers to always use latest crack of lib stuff (rather than letting it sink for a couple of year) ... and even on libs that use the latest crack of other libs | 23:09 |
| asac | often its really just a simple helper for three lines of code ... still they jump on that as if it was the greatest innovation in the world | 23:09 |
| ccheney | heh yea :-\ | 23:10 |
| asac | anyway. all this doesnt help. it needs thorough work to get it done | 23:11 |
| ccheney | well these are gnome platform libs so they expect to all be at the same version | 23:11 |
| ccheney | yea | 23:11 |
| asac | right. but thats wrong | 23:11 |
| asac | ccheney: it always feels endless that way, but usually at some point the work is finished and then its something to be proud of ;) | 23:12 |
| asac | ccheney: anyway. what we can do is to compare symbol usage to estimate how much we need | 23:12 |
| asac | without trying until it works | 23:12 |
| * ccheney is starting to see why the evil that is OOo exists with all its 3rd party libs embedded in source :) | 23:12 | |
| ccheney | asac: ah ok | 23:12 |
| ccheney | which is the proper objdump flag for that? | 23:13 |
| asac | right. ooo and ffox and all those folks that want to provide decent software that works in more than just one ubuntu release, have no choice | 23:13 |
| asac | so they are in fact not evil | 23:13 |
| ccheney | -t says no symbols, do i need to build and force to not strip | 23:13 |
| ccheney | ah -T | 23:14 |
| asac | huh? | 23:14 |
| asac | nm -D | 23:14 |
| asac | for libs | 23:14 |
| asac | but yes. objdump is probably better | 23:14 |
| ccheney | hmm that doesn't seem to be matching up | 23:17 |
| ccheney | nm i think i am looking at it wrong | 23:18 |
| ccheney | yea i was looking at the gnome lib instead of main soup | 23:18 |
| asac | ccheney: so get what is referenced with glib_ from the one/lucid/karmic consumer and check what is not in the hardy lib | 23:20 |
| asac | that should get a good first idea | 23:20 |
| asac | do same for gtk and for webkit etc. | 23:20 |
| ccheney | ok | 23:20 |
| ccheney | 127 symbols for soup | 23:25 |
| ccheney | including stuff like g_poll | 23:26 |
| ccheney | bunch of new object and value symbols | 23:27 |
| ccheney | hmm the value symbols aren't listed as new but don't appear to be in old glib | 23:28 |
| * ccheney is confused why there aren't in the api docs as new | 23:28 | |
| ccheney | appears the new symbols list is incomplete | 23:29 |
| asac | please paste | 23:33 |
| asac | at best with the command you used to extract | 23:33 |
| asac | ccheney: ^ | 23:35 |
| ccheney | 175 symbols between webkit and libsoup | 23:35 |
| ccheney | ok | 23:35 |
| ccheney | just a moment | 23:35 |
| ccheney | oh yea 175 just for glib functions | 23:37 |
| asac | btween webkit and libsoup? | 23:38 |
| asac | thats not the deal | 23:38 |
| ccheney | yea | 23:38 |
| asac | we want to know webkit vs. glib | 23:38 |
| ccheney | how many webkit uses of the new glib, yea | 23:38 |
| asac | paste ;) | 23:38 |
| asac | with command | 23:38 |
| ccheney | 175 new functions between libsoup and webkit that are not in the hardy glib | 23:38 |
| asac | p | 23:39 |
| ccheney | http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/352022/ | 23:42 |
| ccheney | same for libsoup and libsoup-gnome and then combined for the list at the bottom | 23:42 |
| asac | so thats definitly a wrong list ;) | 23:46 |
| ccheney | hmm? | 23:46 |
| asac | you probably need to include more .so's from glib | 23:46 |
| asac | well | 23:46 |
| asac | g_object_get -> certainly not new ;) | 23:46 |
| asac | g_object_get_data -> dito | 23:46 |
| asac | almost all symbols i see there are really old | 23:46 |
| asac | all g_value* | 23:47 |
| ccheney | oh yea i see now oops | 23:47 |
| asac | all g_object* | 23:47 |
| asac | dont be a bot :-Ü | 23:47 |
| asac | hehe | 23:47 |
| ccheney | there are libg* in /usr/lib vs /lib/libglib* | 23:47 |
| ccheney | doh | 23:47 |
| asac | you will figure | 23:47 |
| ccheney | ok will rerun :) | 23:47 |
| * ccheney hopes for a much smaller number | 23:48 | |
| asac | rerunning without fixing wont help :) | 23:48 |
| asac | it will be | 23:48 |
| ccheney | yea | 23:48 |
| asac | really small ;) | 23:48 |
| asac | i would reall yhope that webkit doesnt really jump on latest glib stuff | 23:49 |
| asac | i mean ... chromium uses most parts and they build it on hardy ;) | 23:49 |
| asac | and glib is one of the few things they use as system libs | 23:50 |
| === robbiew is now known as robbiew_ | ||
| ccheney | down to 22 :) | 23:53 |
| ccheney | apparently webkit only uses 2 of them | 23:53 |
| ccheney | and libsoup a different 20 | 23:54 |
| asac | ccheney: paste ;) | 23:54 |
| ccheney | http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/352028/ | 23:55 |
| ccheney | mainly network stuff for libsoup except for poll and some context push/pop thing | 23:55 |
| asac | ccheney: ok the webkit _unref function probably is somethig inlined ... so a none-issue | 23:56 |
| asac | most likely the code uses the previous _free equivalent | 23:56 |
| ccheney | ok | 23:56 |
| asac | not sure about g_dgettext .. i would think its also somehow inlined | 23:56 |
| asac | or generated during build in modern glib env | 23:56 |
| asac | so most likely webkit is fine | 23:56 |
| asac | please do the same for gtk | 23:56 |
| ccheney | ok | 23:57 |
| asac | the libsoup symbols look all easy to do | 23:57 |
| asac | basically it was what we already found yesterday | 23:57 |
| asac | PLUS g_poll | 23:57 |
| asac | which is quite well confined in the source | 23:57 |
| asac | hmm g_main_context_pop_thread_default | 23:57 |
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