=== dyek_ is now known as dyek === bjf is now known as bjf-afk === lan3y is now known as Laney === eeejay is now known as eeejay_away === bjf-afk is now known as bjf === bjf is now known as bjf-afk === Amaranth__ is now known as Amaranth === asac_ is now known as asac === eeejay_away is now known as eeejay [07:21] Good morning [07:21] ccheney: in our glib version, just drop the --enable-cassert configure option in debian/rules [08:30] good morning everyone [08:30] hey chrisccoulson [08:31] hey pitti, how are you today? [08:31] I'm good, thanks! and you? [08:44] apparently it has just started snowing outside [09:03] hello there [09:03] seems I've some internet issues today [09:05] hey seb128_ [09:06] hi there & happy new year everyone :) [09:06] happy new year to you too baptistemm [09:06] hey ey chrisccoulson [09:06] eh chrisccoulson1 rather :) [09:10] bonjour seb128 === seb128__ is now known as seb128 [09:23] hi? [09:23] is IRC hating other people today too? [09:24] hey seb128 [09:25] seb128: I think it just hates you :) [09:25] hello? [09:25] hey mvo [09:25] the lag bar was bouncing for half an hour now [09:25] it did reconnect a couple of time but I got nothing going through I think [09:25] seems to work better now... [09:25] good luck! [09:26] mvo, how are you? [09:26] I'm fine, thanks! just had some tea [09:26] how are you? (beside the inet issues)? [09:26] pretty good thanks [09:27] mvo, is software-center supposed to let you upgrade things? [09:27] the karmic version had an "upgrade" button when new versions were available [09:27] but that doesn't seem to be the case in lucid? [09:28] seb128: right, it used to be in the mockups, but I think its no more [09:28] hum [09:28] it's weird that you can't upgrade things from there [09:29] you can upgrade things from the apple app store [09:29] ;-) [09:30] hey seb128 [09:30] heh ;) [09:30] hey chrisccoulson [09:31] your internet is working better now? [09:32] yes [09:32] seems to be stable now [09:37] seb128: I got a chance to play with the iphone store over christmas a bit (a friend of mine got one). fun thing [09:37] wb seb128_ [09:37] hum, or not [09:37] seb128: I got a chance to play with the iphone store over christmas a bit (a friend of mine got one). fun thing [09:37] just when I was saying it works better [09:37] mvo, indeed, I love my ipod touch [09:38] very handy to quickly check things [09:38] train, facebook posts, etc [09:38] email [09:38] * mvo nods [09:42] I found the "upgrade from software-center" cool [09:42] shame it's not working in lucid ;-) [09:42] mpt: ---^ [09:44] seb128, what "upgrade from software-center"? [09:45] mpt: but #432610 [09:45] bug [09:45] bug #432610 [09:45] Launchpad bug 432610 in software-center "Cannot remove app if it has an upgrade available" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432610 [09:45] mpt, let's say I've an outdated gdm installed [09:45] or $software [09:46] in karmic when you go to that software in software-center you have an upgrade button [09:46] now you just have "uninstall" [09:46] which forces me to use synaptic to upgrade it [09:46] sucks, software-center is much faster and nicer [09:46] seb128, you don't have Update Manager installed? [09:48] I have but I've some 350 upgrades pending [09:48] and you want to update just that one [09:48] and I just want to upgrade one software now to try something [09:48] hmm [09:48] I don't want to start a 3 hours upgrade [09:48] sure [09:49] perhaps software-center could have a "to upgrade" category ? [09:49] like the apple app store has [09:50] It's possible USC will allow updates in the future [09:50] it did in karmic already ;-) [09:50] but it would need careful design first, so that we don't end up with bugs like #432610 [09:50] it's weird it's "broken" now [09:50] bug#432610 [09:50] bug 432610 [09:50] Launchpad bug 432610 in software-center "Cannot remove app if it has an upgrade available" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432610 [09:51] add an extra button in this case? [09:51] I can open the opposite bug now [09:51] You're welcome to, but it won't affect the scheduling much :-) [09:52] I was just checking it that was a bug or a design decision [09:52] seems it's a design choice [09:52] I won't bother [09:52] seems that designers like to drop features I'm using ;-) [09:53] but I'm getting used to that by now [09:53] I haven't designed the feature at all yet. I will eventually, but there are other more important things to implement first. [09:53] I'm sorry. [09:54] Another thing that would make that case easier is a "deselect all" function in Update Manager, so you could then just select the updates you're interested in. [09:54] that's ok [09:54] it just that it was working in karmic [09:54] so I got used to it [09:54] there is one in the context menu [09:54] don't worry I manage to upgrade things [09:54] I just find that feature cool in karmic [09:54] it creates user expectation [09:55] it would not have been an issue if that was not there and dropped [09:55] huh, so there is, I never noticed :-) [09:55] if things are not there that's ok [09:55] if they are there and you got used to those and they get broken you get annoyed [09:56] Yes, I saw a lot of that with the Mozilla project and Netscape 4 -> Netscape 6 [09:56] anything not the end of the world, thanks ;-) [09:56] "Why did you remove feature X" [09:57] "Sorry, we haven't reimplemented it yet" [09:58] having a button for this in the details view sounds not like it would do a lot of harm and is convenient for some uers [10:00] right, I don't see the issue with having 3 buttons instead of 2 [10:00] when updates are available [10:00] but I'm not a designer ;-) === seb128_ is now known as seb128 [10:00] pitti, hey [10:01] pitti, your changes from yesterday won us between 0.5 and 1s [10:01] hard to say because desktop numbers are changing between boot in a 0.3s to 0.5s margin usuallt [10:02] mvo, but it's never just "having a button". We need to specify what happens to the "Remove" button while it's updating, what the text is for an updating item in the "In Progress" section, what happens if you try to update an item that's queued for removal, etc [10:03] seb128: nice! I actually thought it wouldn't win anything because panel is running much longer [10:04] but with nautilus using less CPU other processes are faster perhaps [10:04] seb128: total desktop time at http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/ is no different apparently [10:04] pitti, scott's charts are using daily isos [10:04] but nautilus time on http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100104-max.png and http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100105-max.png is indeed a huge improvement \o/ [10:04] I doubt there is one with this upgrade yet [10:05] oh, there is? [10:05] seb128: today's dailies have the new brasero [10:05] I though it was taking longer to him to rsync and update charts [10:05] is that usually those were not updated in the morning yet [10:05] anyway on my mini the boot time dropped from 18-18.5s to 17.5-18s today [10:05] I did some 5 boots before and after [10:07] weird that it doesn't reflects on Scott's charts [10:14] seb128 - i will have some g-s-d, gconf and gnome-session updates for you to test later hopefully :) [10:14] updates? [10:14] new versions? [10:14] or boot speed? [10:14] seb128 - boot speed improvements (hopefully) [10:14] nice! [10:14] look forwarding testing those changes ;-) [10:15] what did you change exactly? [10:15] pitti: my changes to jockey should go in lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/jockey/ubuntu , right? [10:15] pitti: as they affect only driver handlers [10:16] seb128 - the gconf change is to parse the XML files when gconfd loads, rather than waiting for an application to query the database. the gnome-session change is to get the session up and running without using gconf. i've done both of these already [10:16] the g-s-d change will be to load the xrandr plugin without using gconf [10:16] nice [10:17] the idea being that by the time any values are queried, all the XML parsing will have finished [10:17] did I already say that you rock? ;-) [10:17] i don't know how well it will work yet, so don't get your hopes up too much ;) [10:26] hm, it looks like vte (in synaptic) turns into some sort of white/black instead of black/white when a bunch of lines are displayed - has anyone seen that (probably with the latest vte) [10:27] seb128: what was the option again to make glib break on GLib-Critiical? [10:28] tseliot: trunk has the drivers as well in examples/, so if applicable, commit them there [10:28] mvo, --g-fatal-warnings [10:28] ? [10:28] great, thanks [10:30] pitti: yes, I can do there. Furthermore I would like to make jockey depend on nvidia-common > 0.2.15 (because of the new Alternatives class) but I would rather not upload (or have the package uploaded) until the new nvidia-common is in lucid. Shall I simply put UNRELEASED in the changelog (in case you want to change something else)? [10:30] tseliot: you should always commit changes with "UNRELEASED" anyway [10:31] pitti: ok, good to know [10:31] so please go ahead and change the dependency; I guess n-common will be uploaded very soon? [10:31] yes, I would like to do some testing on real hardware first though [10:32] mvo - if you want to do it at runtime, you need to run with G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals [10:33] i think baptistemm's suggestion is a build option isn't it? [10:33] morning [10:34] huats! [10:34] Salut [10:34] hey james_w ! [10:34] chrisccoulson, no, this is aruntime options [10:37] baptistemm - ah, i wasn't sure [10:37] chrisccoulson: thanks, the environment was the one I was looking for, but --g-fatal-warnings works too when passed to the application [10:38] I didn't know about the G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals [10:41] hm, looks like irc does not like me anymore [11:01] pitti: the handlers in lp:jockey seem to be a bit older than the ones in ubuntu-core-dev (e.g. both the "enable" and "disable" methods seem to be missing) [11:05] tseliot: right, I left out the truly ubuntu specific bits [11:05] tseliot: perhaps it's best if you just commit your changes to the ubuntu branch for now [11:05] pitti: ok === mpt_ is now known as mpt [11:20] mvo, I see other people replied for me ;-) [11:20] the runtime option or variable do the same thing [11:39] hi and happy new year [11:39] my first question of the year (more to come) :-) [11:40] hey rodrigo_, happy new year! [11:40] hey pitti [11:40] pitti: I am about to create a new package to be added to lucid, should I use dput as I did for karmic, before there were package branches, or should I use a branch from the beginning? [11:41] seb128: so, I removed init/upstart bits from hal now and set it to dbus-activation [11:41] and if using a branch, where should I submit it? [11:41] seb128: now pitivi starts up just fine, without hal starting on boot [11:42] rodrigo_: that's rather a question for james_w, but you can't use a package branch before the package is known [11:42] ah [11:42] james_w: around? [11:42] rodrigo_: so perhaps just use a +junk branch for now and later move it over? [11:42] "known" can be anything though [11:42] mvo, does apt or dpkg keep track of when a package was installed? [11:42] so as soon as you upload to your PPA you can push to lp:~rodrigo/ubuntu/lucid//whatever [11:43] oh, sweet [11:43] but yes, +junk could serve you until that point [11:43] and yes, using branches is a good idea :-) [11:43] james_w: ok, I'll use a junk branch then [11:43] so merely having that package in a PPA suffices? [11:43] yeah [11:43] yes, I prefer branches than dput [11:43] rodrigo_: right now it's not about an either-or; you'll need dput either way :) [11:43] there's no lp:ubuntu/ obviously [11:44] but you can use a 5-part name [11:44] pitti: right, but for building my package locally, and keeping track of changes, I prefer a branch than a dir on my PC [11:44] right [11:44] ok then [11:48] i think i should have stayed at home this morning! [11:48] all of our local roads are gridlocked now it has snowed :( [11:49] asac: any news on the root certificate in firefox integration? [11:50] TeTeT: i wasnt aware that there was somthing still left. [11:50] its not doable without repacking firefox [11:51] and i didnt get any other feedback yet. === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:53] the unstopable pitti [11:54] pitti, you rock ;-) [11:54] heh [11:54] thanks, you too! [11:54] asac: ok, thanks [11:55] i pinged again [11:56] pitti, sorry about the build-depends overlook [11:56] pitti, the gir thing sucks though [11:56] np [11:56] gir? [11:57] gobject introspection [11:57] oh, not having python udev bindings, you mean [11:57] ie no gudev for python [11:57] right [11:57] I wonder when this gets merted [11:57] merged [11:57] I don't agree with the crash = data loss though [11:57] it was a SoC project last year, and the git branch looks pretty well maintained [11:58] does it destroy the original video? or just don't give you what you asked for [11:58] and also we have an apport issue there [11:58] seb128: I don't think it'll destroy input files [11:58] it catches python exceptions as crashes [11:58] (well, I hope anyway) [11:58] even if those are non-issue [11:58] it's an issue for empathy msn bugs too [11:59] well, an unhandled exception means that the program immediately dies, without the possibility to save your edits, or telling you why [11:59] lot of "not implement feature" exceptions reported as crashes [11:59] well raising an error doesn't mean the program exit [11:59] why is that an exception then, instead of just a warning? [11:59] sure it does [12:00] it only catches unhandled exceptsions [12:00] i. e. which cause the program to abort [12:00] hum [12:00] I guess for empathy it's less of an issue [12:01] that's not what the telepathy-butterfly guys said [12:01] you get disconnected, the backend gets respawned, and there you can re-connect [12:01] they say most of the "crash bug" on launchpad are not crashes [12:01] seb128: do you have a reference? [12:01] we can add an apport hook to ignore particular crashes if they are uninteresting [12:01] (or just fix the damn code to intercept and ignore them) [12:02] but if you throw an exception and don't catch it, then you break the program flow anyway, so the only thing you can do is to restart the program [12:03] istaz, ^ [12:03] pitti, I don't remember the specifics but istaz is upstream for that one [12:03] anyway, I'm happy to discuss that with upstream directly of course [12:03] istaz, do you have example of things apport catch wrongly? [12:03] istaz: hey! (and happy new year!) [12:04] pitti: is apport turned on in lucid yet? [12:05] seb128: it seem apport show crash dialog on certain error even if telepathy-butterfly doesn't crash [12:05] james_w, no [12:05] and the papyon libs we use generate a lot of error [12:05] james_w: not yet, we planned to do so in the new year [12:05] james_w: to at least catch python crashes; signal crashes are still broken due to a kernel bug [12:05] mpt: hi, with the history branch we have that info now, we sort of had it before too [12:05] pitti: ok, just wondering when to consider turning kerneloops on [12:06] we should do it by alpha-2 anyway === om26er_ is now known as om26er [12:13] dobey, kenvandine: when do you plan to drop the U1 applet? (it's a work item for startup speed) [12:24] mvo, what do you mean by "sort of"? :-) [12:25] vuntz, hey [12:25] vuntz, happy new year! [12:25] mpt: there is information in the dpkg.log file, but for the real picture we need the apt history branch [12:25] vuntz, who do I talk to about gnome-desktop breaking abi without soname change? [12:26] bonjour vuntz, happy new year! [12:27] mvo, ah. I was just wanting to know whether I could say "Installed on {date}" in the screen for an installed item. [12:27] mpt: the dpkg.log contains a lot of noise, that is a bit of a problem [12:27] right [12:27] mvo: it also gets rotated away over time? [12:27] mpt: i see, we can do that I think, but we need to cache it, its way to slow to parse it [12:28] pitti: that too [12:28] mvo, should we leave it until history is implemented then? Or would caching it require that much extra work regardless? [12:29] mpt: just put it as a work item to the software-center-ui-improvements spec, I think its sufficiently different. but I can make no promises that we can land it for 2.0 [12:30] Ok, I'll punt it to the "Not scheduled" section [12:30] thanks [12:31] it should not be hard, the initial cost may be high and for some we can only guess (old installs that have no log information anymore) [12:32] seb128: how much did the fontconfig stuff cost us again? [12:32] mvo, maybe It can be one of the 101 things [12:33] mpt: yeah. it needs some thinking about the caching (and cache invalidation), a slow implementation is trivial to do [12:33] pitti, I would have to test again, it was winning some 2-3 seconds when I first tried [12:33] but I tried to found if a specific config file was causing it and deleting each one, one by one [12:33] seb128: that's spread over all programs, I take it? [12:34] and didn't find anything making a real difference [12:34] yes [12:34] ok, thanks [12:34] I guess that the antialiasing creates some work [12:34] mpt: a interessting problem to think about :) do you have a mockup already? maybe I can do some prototyping on this [12:34] so it's shared as extra load by everything rendering fonts [12:35] + the cost of reading all the caches for the number of fonts we haver [12:35] - [12:35] -r [12:36] * pitti lunches [12:36] mvo, there are plenty of interesting problems for you to think about that are already in the spec ;-) [12:37] mvo, for example, the categorized list view and making search work in it [12:39] mvo, and repairing a broken apt cache without getting Update Manager to do it [12:39] and plenty more indeed [12:46] can I publish a tar.gz in LP? I can't seem to find where to do it on my project page [12:49] I think you need to make a release/milestone [12:49] #launchpad will know if you can just host files not specific to a release [12:57] seb128: mclasen (since he did the tarball) [12:57] you could think he would know better [12:57] anyway I will ping him when he's around [12:57] thanks [12:57] and happy new year to everyone here :-) [12:58] salut vuntz [13:02] james_w: it's specific to a release [13:02] james_w: should I make an announcement then? [13:02] ok, if you go to the milestone page you can add download files there [13:02] ah [13:03] james_w: I've got no milestones, so register a series first? [13:05] yeah, you need a series to put a milestone on [13:05] though you should have a default series? [13:07] james_w: I guess so -> https://edge.launchpad.net/libubuntuone [13:08] what release are you making? [13:08] just 0.1? [13:08] will it be supported with 0.1.1 etc? [13:08] 0.0.1 [13:08] ok, so a series for tracking bugs to be backported to it etc. is not what you want? [13:09] no, just want to publish the tar.gz somewhere :) [13:09] ok [13:10] "Development focus: trunk series " [13:10] click "trunk series" to go to https://edge.launchpad.net/libubuntuone/trunk [13:10] and you should have "Create milestone Create release" links in the middle of the page [13:11] You want "Create release" [13:12] ok [13:13] vuntz, thanks for bumping the abi now ;-) [13:13] vuntz, happy new year to you too! [13:14] not sure now if I said that before :-) [13:14] james_w: ok, works now, thanks for your help :) [13:15] np === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [14:08] tedg, hey [14:08] Good morning seb128! [14:08] how are you? [14:09] Doing well. Trying to get all of the alpha 2 goals done :) [14:09] what goal do you have for that? [14:09] is fixing the rhythmbox icon issue on this list? ;-) [14:10] Yes, that, and the ordering of application icons. [14:10] bug fixing too? ;-) [14:10] We have no bugs. [14:10] there is several bugs on the upstream component [14:10] lol [14:10] I see ;-) [14:11] The Rhythmbox patch has bugs? Or Rhythmbox itself? [14:11] I would say your indicator has a bug [14:11] it doesn't search for icons in the rhythmbox dir [14:11] * kenvandine thinks the there are bugs in the indicat* package/project naming [14:11] :) [14:11] which is not really a bug by itself but somewhat a design flaw or lack of option [14:12] we discussed that before holidays ;-) [14:12] hey tedg, happy new year! [14:12] tedg, we need a way to specify an extra icon lookup dir [14:12] oh, are you guys discussing the broken incidator icon when RB is running? [14:12] pitti, yes [14:12] seb128: yes, I have a branch that already fixes that. It's just not complete enough to merge. [14:12] pitti, tedg is fixing it :) [14:13] tedg, is that on the alpha2 schedule? [14:13] seb128: Yes [14:13] it sucks to have a broken icon ;-) [14:13] ok good [14:13] tedg, I will let you work then ;-) [14:32] good afternoon everyone [14:33] seb128: pitti happy new year [14:33] chrisccoulson, to you too! [14:34] istaz, thanks, happy new year to you too! [14:34] pitti: if you have an Exception in a glib call back it doesn't crash the process [14:34] i've finished work for the day now, so i can do some ubuntu work instead :) [14:35] istaz: through dbus you mean? [14:35] istaz: happy new year, too! [14:35] pitti: no even with a timeout http://paste.debian.net/55675/ [14:35] but lot of error we get are from dus call yes [14:36] ah, interesting [14:37] so if you consider those "normal" in the msn backend, we should just add an apport hook to filter them out [14:37] I don't want to ignore them for all programs, since in the general case those are bugs [14:39] these are smalls bugs but non fatal ones. I'm actually ok if they get report in the unstable period since most of them should be fixed anyway [14:40] but not once the release is done [14:40] so what we currently have is ok [14:50] kenvandine: when you merge packages, please use debuild's -v option to include the relevant debian changelogs; i. e. -v [14:51] ah [14:51] ok === robbiew_ is now known as robbiew [14:58] Seems todays image for iMX51 boots to a GDM login screen, is this the same across the board for other images and is there a fix? [14:58] JamieBennett, hi, not a very desktopish question, I don't know [15:04] pitti, seb128, kenvandine, ccheney, etc... I'd like to get Bughugger into Universe, but Bughugger depends on Quidgets [15:04] I uploaded Quidgets to revu yesterday [15:04] rickspencer3, i will look over that in a bit [15:04] I'm sure the packaging is embarrassingly poor [15:04] hehe :) [15:05] it's not done with python-mkdebian? :-) [15:05] heh, I took the output of $quickly share and tinkered with it to make it match the documentation as best I could === bjf-afk is now known as bjf [15:06] I had to make an "upstream" tarbarll and all this crazy stuff, ScottK and Laney had to help quite a bit [15:06] ./setup.py sdist === Grantbow is now known as grantbow [15:27] hi pitti, I've just noticed that https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/loco-council-lucid-plans does not appear in the community burn-down chart. I guess it's because it hasn't got the 'community-lucid-' prefix in the spec's name. What's the best way to make it appear in the report? [15:36] dpm: either rename it, or I add it to the filter for community [15:36]