| === salgado-afk is now known as salgado | ||
| === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch | ||
| === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell | ||
| === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch | ||
| bac | #startmeeting | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| MootBot | Meeting started at 09:01. The chair is bac. | 15:01 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 15:01 |
| bac | hello everyone. welcome to the first reviewer's meeting of 2010. | 15:01 |
| bac | who's here? | 15:01 |
| abentley | me | 15:01 |
| gmb | me | 15:01 |
| EdwinGrubbs | me | 15:01 |
| sinzui | me | 15:01 |
| barry | me | 15:01 |
| henninge | me | 15:02 |
| noodles775 | me | 15:02 |
| bigjools | me | 15:02 |
| bac | let me try to round up some folks | 15:03 |
| * gmb has summond the Bugs team reviewers | 15:03 | |
| allenap | me | 15:03 |
| adeuring | me | 15:04 |
| gmb | ... see? | 15:04 |
| intellectronica | me | 15:04 |
| bac | gmb: and your leader? | 15:04 |
| gmb | bac: Has been pung. | 15:04 |
| bac | BjornT: ping | 15:04 |
| henninge | bac: jtv has been having connectivity troubles and danilo is off. | 15:04 |
| bac | thanks henninge | 15:05 |
| bac | well, let's get started. if you notice an absence from one of your team members please follow gmb's good example and harass them. | 15:05 |
| bac | [TOPIC] agenda | 15:06 |
| MootBot | New Topic: agenda | 15:06 |
| bac | * Roll call | 15:06 |
| bac | * Action items | 15:06 |
| bac | * invite other teams to do lazr-js code reviews? [mars/barry] | 15:06 |
| bac | * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) | 15:06 |
| bac | * Reminder: Who can do JS reviews? All reviewers? [henninge,allenap] | 15:06 |
| bac | * Proposed coding standard for YUI modules. [Edwin] | 15:06 |
| bac | * Cleaning up outstanding approved branches on +activereviews [bac] | 15:06 |
| bac | * New developers as mentats? [bac] | 15:06 |
| bac | * Meeting frequency [bac] | 15:06 |
| abentley | bac: I am the sole member of the Code team on this meeting, but I welcome harassment from others. | 15:06 |
| bac | abentley: what about rockstar? | 15:06 |
| abentley | bac: He does the other one. | 15:06 |
| bac | [TOPIC] action items | 15:07 |
| MootBot | New Topic: action items | 15:07 |
| barry | rockstar joins ameu | 15:07 |
| bac | first, an unlisted item -- we all owe many thanks to barry for his long service getting the group together and chairing. thanks barry and have fun in foundations! | 15:07 |
| henninge | yeah, thanks barry! | 15:07 |
| intellectronica | ees a jolly good fella | 15:08 |
| abentley | barry: Thanks! | 15:08 |
| bac | [TOPIC] * invite other teams to do lazr-js code reviews? [mars/barry] | 15:08 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * invite other teams to do lazr-js code reviews? [mars/barry] | 15:08 |
| * barry blushes - you're welcome! i have no doubt bac will great improve the governance of this team :) | 15:08 | |
| al-maisan | me | 15:08 |
| bac | i'm not sure if this is leftover from our last meeting so long ago | 15:08 |
| bac | mars isn't here, so do you recall barry? | 15:09 |
| barry | i vaguely remember an ml discussion about this from way back last year | 15:09 |
| barry | i think it would be a good idea to do cross-team reviews of lazr-js, but iirc mars was -0 on it | 15:09 |
| barry | i don't remember why (something about the code not being ready yet?) | 15:10 |
| bac | ok, i'll take it on to review the ML to see if i can find a discussion and talk to mars to see if we want to pursue it. | 15:10 |
| bac | [TOPIC] * Reminder: Who can do JS reviews? All reviewers? [henninge,allenap] | 15:10 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Reminder: Who can do JS reviews? All reviewers? [henninge,allenap] | 15:10 |
| bac | henninge: is this a current issue? if so, please proceed. | 15:11 |
| henninge | bac: it came up in a review | 15:11 |
| henninge | I think allenap wasn't sure if he could review my JS code because he was never officially knighted as "JS reviewer" | 15:12 |
| barry | all reviewers can and should do js reviewes | 15:12 |
| barry | *ui* reviews are a different matter | 15:12 |
| henninge | barry: that's what I remember, thanks. | 15:12 |
| fjlacoste | well | 15:12 |
| henninge | yup | 15:12 |
| intellectronica | i agree, by now there should be no reason why anyone can't do js reviews | 15:12 |
| bac | that's my feeling. though i know i've seen some people who don't consider them experts defer. i've done it myself. | 15:12 |
| fjlacoste | we did have a similar JS review approval process | 15:13 |
| fjlacoste | graduated reviewers were the UI/AJAX team members | 15:13 |
| fjlacoste | that attended the Berlin sprint | 15:13 |
| intellectronica | and if someone doesn't feel comfortable enough then they can work with someone else | 15:13 |
| barry | bac: right. that's not to say a reviewer can't ask for help, with js or even python | 15:13 |
| fjlacoste | where JS coding guidlines were established | 15:13 |
| fjlacoste | but we never graduated anybody after that | 15:13 |
| fjlacoste | and didn't make the process very formal either | 15:13 |
| barry | fjlacoste: i'm nearly certain we decided to throw everyone in the deep end :) | 15:14 |
| bac | fjlacoste: perhaps we consider those people as resources but everyone should attemp to do JS reviews to their comfort level | 15:14 |
| fjlacoste | right | 15:14 |
| fjlacoste | everyone was considered a mentee | 15:14 |
| fjlacoste | well | 15:14 |
| fjlacoste | we didn't setup a formal mentoring process around this | 15:14 |
| fjlacoste | we shuld clarify that situation | 15:14 |
| fjlacoste | and update the reviewer pages | 15:15 |
| fjlacoste | accordingly | 15:15 |
| barry | +1 on updating the reviewer page | 15:15 |
| bac | perhaps we need a volunteer to herd the JS reviewers. anyone? | 15:15 |
| henninge | I thought we didn't have such a group? | 15:16 |
| === fjlacoste is now known as flacoste | ||
| bac | henninge: i don't recall | 15:17 |
| flacoste | bac: i think this should be someone from the UI/AJAX team | 15:17 |
| bac | flacoste: agreed. | 15:18 |
| bac | EdwinGrubbs: would you be interested? | 15:18 |
| henninge | bac: What I meant is, if all reviewers are JS reviewers, there is no such special group, is there? | 15:18 |
| EdwinGrubbs | bac: to herd js reviewers? don't we have a list of them already in the wiki. | 15:19 |
| noodles775 | And it already says: https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewerSchedule | 15:19 |
| noodles775 | A Note on JavaScript reviews: Any reviewer can handle a JavaScript review, if they feel comfortable doing so. For now, we ask that their review by seconded by one of the JavaScript specialists. | 15:19 |
| bac | thanks noodles775 | 15:20 |
| bac | it looks like there is no action necessary. | 15:20 |
| bac | let's move on. | 15:20 |
| bac | [TOPIC] * Proposed coding standard for YUI modules. [Edwin] | 15:20 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Proposed coding standard for YUI modules. [Edwin] | 15:20 |
| abentley | noodles775: So this means there is a "JavaScript specialists" group. Do we have an easy way to find its members? | 15:21 |
| * henninge waits for the clarification on the wiki ... ;-) | 15:21 | |
| noodles775 | abentley: the list on that page identifies them I think... | 15:21 |
| bac | abentley: that page lists javascript reviewers in the last column | 15:21 |
| noodles775 | (you can update yourself as a resource of course) | 15:21 |
| abentley | noodles775, bac: sounds fine. | 15:22 |
| EdwinGrubbs | you may also want to look at the inconsistencies we currently have with JS module names and the namespaces they define: https://pastebin.canonical.com/25818/ | 15:22 |
| noodles775 | That looks like a good topic in itself :) | 15:23 |
| bac | EdwinGrubbs: the floor is yours for your YUI topic. | 15:23 |
| sinzui | I knew milestone_table would bite me | 15:23 |
| EdwinGrubbs | I'm suggesting that we name our JS modules more like how python modules must be named. More info is available at https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewerMeetingAgenda but I"ll summarize | 15:23 |
| EdwinGrubbs | 1. The module name should match the directory structure. E.g. javascript/registry/timeline.js should use YUI().add('registry.timeline', ... | 15:24 |
| EdwinGrubbs | 2. The namespace should match the module name, so we should put methods in the namespace like this Y.registry.timeline.someFunction() instead of Y.registry.someFunction(). | 15:25 |
| EdwinGrubbs | does anybody disagree with that plan? | 15:26 |
| noodles775 | Not me - it would be good to not have to think about those decisions :) | 15:27 |
| intellectronica | +1 | 15:27 |
| sinzui | your next question should be who volunteers to fix these | 15:27 |
| barry | +1 | 15:27 |
| abentley | +1 | 15:27 |
| deryck | +1 | 15:27 |
| henninge | +1 | 15:27 |
| bac | so we seem to agree it's a good idea. which leads to curtis' question of who and when to do the clean up. | 15:28 |
| EdwinGrubbs | I can open up bugs for the inconsistent modules and assign them to the respective teams. | 15:28 |
| intellectronica | since the code is already divided by app, each team can take care of their own | 15:28 |
| henninge | EdwinGrubbs: that would be great. | 15:29 |
| bac | thanks Edwin | 15:29 |
| bac | [ACTION] Edwin to file bugs on JS naming inconsistencies and teams will take care of doing the clean up. | 15:30 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: Edwin to file bugs on JS naming inconsistencies and teams will take care of doing the clean up. | 15:30 |
| bac | [TOPIC] * Cleaning up outstanding approved branches on +activereviews [bac] | 15:30 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Cleaning up outstanding approved branches on +activereviews [bac] | 15:30 |
| bac | i noticed yesterday when doing OCR that we've got a large number of approved branches that haven't landed. | 15:31 |
| bac | is this work abandoned after review, blocked, other? | 15:32 |
| abentley | bac: Mine were blocked on test suite issues, but are now moving again. | 15:32 |
| bac | if the former perhaps the state of the MP can changed to reflect it and clear out that list. | 15:32 |
| intellectronica | bac: maybe each reviewer at the start/end of their shift try and chase those MPs in question | 15:34 |
| bac | i'm glad that tim created the list and think we should strive to keep it minimal. any other thoughts? | 15:34 |
| intellectronica | it's a bit of a bother, but it will probably help and is not hard to do | 15:34 |
| abentley | bac: For the first case, they can be marked "rejected" or "work-in-progress", as appropriate. | 15:34 |
| bac | abentley: right. | 15:35 |
| abentley | e.g. jelmer's branch was approved, but it turns out there are some issues that require further investigation. | 15:35 |
| bac | intellectronica: perhaps. or we might just monitor it weekly, perhaps keeping it as an item for this meeting until the backlog is handled | 15:36 |
| bac | for now, i just ask that each developer look at his branches and take the necessary action. | 15:36 |
| bac | [TOPIC] * New developers as mentats? [bac] | 15:37 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * New developers as mentats? [bac] | 15:37 |
| bac | we've hired a few new people and i was wondering if anyone was ready to enter the reviewer mentat program. | 15:38 |
| bac | i think team leads should be responsible for nominating their developers as appropriate | 15:38 |
| bac | moving on to the final topic | 15:39 |
| bac | [TOPIC] * Meeting frequency [bac] | 15:39 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Meeting frequency [bac] | 15:39 |
| bac | in the past we have met weekly. starting the new year i think we should look at whether we want to continue weekly meetings or move to biweekly. | 15:40 |
| * bigjools agrees with bac | 15:40 | |
| abentley | I would prefer to continue meeting weekly, because it's easier to remember. | 15:41 |
| bigjools | I say stick with weekly, if there's nothing to discuss it's not a problem is it? We just finish quickly. | 15:41 |
| intellectronica | i think bi-weekly will be enough. maybe we can alternate the eu and pacific meetings, so that if you really want to join a meeting on a given week you can have the option of joining out of office hours | 15:41 |
| intellectronica | bigjools: there is a bit of overhead to a meeting | 15:41 |
| bac | bigjools: alternatively, if there are no/few items on the agenda i can pre-emptively cancel the meeting | 15:42 |
| bigjools | not a metric! | 15:42 |
| bac | bigjools: but, as a rule it would go on as planned on a weekly basis | 15:42 |
| gmb | I'm +0 on keeping it weekly for the sake of my godawful memory. | 15:43 |
| bigjools | I don't see the problem personally | 15:43 |
| bac | i just don't want to cause interruption to everyone's schedule if the meeting is not serving a purpose | 15:43 |
| intellectronica | also, many of the topics we discuss in these meetings can probably be discussed more productively on the mailing list anyway | 15:43 |
| gmb | bac: Well, if it's going to break up an important piece of work we can always send our apologies... | 15:44 |
| bac | ok, it sounds like there is enough sentiment to continue weekly. | 15:44 |
| bac | lastly | 15:44 |
| bac | [TOPIC] Peanut gallery | 15:44 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Peanut gallery | 15:44 |
| bac | anyone have an item they'd like to (briefly) discuss? | 15:45 |
| * bigjools raises hand | 15:45 | |
| bac | go bigjools | 15:45 |
| * abentley raises hand | 15:45 | |
| bac | abentley on deck | 15:45 |
| bigjools | very quickly, the current edge non-updating is because we let an API change land which didn't have security protection | 15:45 |
| bigjools | so this is a reminder to be vigilant when reviewing API changes | 15:46 |
| * bigjools out | 15:46 | |
| abentley | bigjools: Thanks for raising my topic | 15:46 |
| bigjools | heh | 15:46 |
| bac | thanks bigjools and abentley | 15:46 |
| abentley | I wanted to ask if we think there is anything else we should do. | 15:46 |
| abentley | The outcome of the discussion was that this should have been caught in review. | 15:47 |
| bigjools | reviewers' checklists? | 15:47 |
| abentley | bigjools: Wouldn't hurt. | 15:47 |
| bigjools | maybe a template for review replies. Didn't we used to have one? :) | 15:47 |
| abentley | bigjools: You mean for review requests? | 15:47 |
| bigjools | no, replies | 15:47 |
| bigjools | I remember using barry's reviewing tool | 15:48 |
| abentley | bigjools: Must have been before my time. | 15:48 |
| abentley | Of course, we've exposed a lot of APIs, and if this is the only security issue we've had, we're doing pretty well. | 15:48 |
| abentley | But what if it's not? | 15:48 |
| bigjools | it's not the first time it's happened | 15:49 |
| abentley | Would it be a good idea to audit our API? | 15:49 |
| bigjools | I think security should be constantly on reviewers' minds | 15:49 |
| bigjools | we can continue this on the list | 15:50 |
| bigjools | we're OOT | 15:50 |
| bac | yep | 15:50 |
| abentley | bigjools: Okay. | 15:50 |
| bac | thanks for coming and contributing | 15:50 |
| bac | #endmeeting | 15:50 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 09:50. | 15:50 |
| henninge | Thanks bac! | 15:51 |
| === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado | ||
| === EdwinGrubbs is now known as Edwin-lunch | ||
| === Edwin-lunch is now known as EdwinGrubbs | ||
| === noodles76 is now known as noodles775 | ||
| bac | #startmeeting | 21:00 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is bac. | 21:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 21:00 |
| bac | Hi all, welcome to the AsiaPac version of the Launchpad Reviewers Meeting. Who's here today? | 21:01 |
| bac | hello? echo? | 21:01 |
| bac | rockstar, mwhudson, thumper: ping | 21:01 |
| mwhudson | hi | 21:02 |
| rockstar | hi | 21:02 |
| rockstar | wgrant, ping? | 21:02 |
| thumper | hey | 21:02 |
| bac | [TOPIC] agenda | 21:02 |
| MootBot | New Topic: agenda | 21:02 |
| bac | * Roll call | 21:03 |
| bac | * Action items | 21:03 |
| bac | * invite other teams to do lazr-js code reviews? [mars/barry] | 21:03 |
| bac | * Reminder: Who can do JS reviews? All reviewers? [henninge,allenap] | 21:03 |
| bac | * Proposed coding standard for YUI modules. [Edwin] | 21:03 |
| bac | * Cleaning up outstanding '''approved''' branches on [[https://code.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+activereviews| +activereviews]] [bac] | 21:03 |
| bac | * New developers as mentats? [bac] | 21:03 |
| bac | * Meeting frequency [bac] | 21:03 |
| bac | * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) | 21:03 |
| bac | [TOPIC] summary of the AMEU meeting | 21:03 |
| MootBot | New Topic: summary of the AMEU meeting | 21:03 |
| bac | so we went over the items listed above. the lazr-js one was a non-starter as barry didn't remember what it was about and mars was awol. | 21:04 |
| mwhudson | i see :) | 21:05 |
| bac | a much run-around regarding JS reviews, noodles reminded us the page at https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewerSchedule listed all of the JS gurus. everyone should do JS reviews but refer to the experts if needed | 21:05 |
| bac | edwin made a very well received suggestion about JS namespaces and is going to file bugs so each team can clean up their code to adhere to the new idea. | 21:06 |
| bac | thumper i championed the idea of cleaning up approved branches on +activereviews. a few people had reasonable explanations for why branches lingered but most are still a mystery. hopefully we can drive that list down | 21:07 |
| bac | why do the work and get it approved only to let the branch linger if there is not a clear blocker? | 21:07 |
| thumper | awesome | 21:07 |
| bac | i encouraged team leads to nominate new developers to start the mentoring process when ready but that only applies to one or two people, and certainly no code folks | 21:08 |
| bac | since we went about six weeks without a meeting and nothing caught fire i floated the idea of doing these reviewer meetings less frequently. to my surprise the concensus was to stay with weekly meetings. | 21:09 |
| rockstar | bac, code tema is already in the process of cleaning up their namespaces. | 21:09 |
| bac | i reserved the right to cancel a meeting if there is nothing on the agenda. so if you have something to talk about please put it on the wiki. | 21:09 |
| bac | rockstar: great! | 21:09 |
| bac | and that was the meeting. took us 50 minutes to cover all of that. | 21:10 |
| bac | so do any of you have anything for the "Peanut Gallery" section? | 21:10 |
| * mwhudson doesn't think so | 21:11 | |
| * rockstar doesn't | 21:11 | |
| bac | oh, yeah, we heaped lots of praise on barry for chairing these meetings for so long | 21:11 |
| rockstar | bac, also, I don't think we're going to have this meeting next week, since we're all sprinting. | 21:11 |
| bac | rockstar: ok, great. you going to miss your snow? | 21:12 |
| rockstar | bac, I think I'll risk it. | 21:12 |
| bac | ok, then. thanks for coming. if no one has anything else let's call this meeting done. | 21:13 |
| bac | #endmeeting | 21:13 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 15:13. | 21:13 |
| mwhudson | thanks bac | 21:14 |
| rockstar | thanks bac | 21:15 |
| bac | np | 21:15 |
| bac | hey thumper are you CHR? | 21:15 |
| thumper | yep | 21:17 |
| bac | thumper: have you been answer email to feedback? if so, please CC the feedback list when you do. | 21:17 |
| bac | er, 'answering' | 21:17 |
| thumper | I just got to it yesterday | 21:17 |
| thumper | and yes, I'll be CCing the list | 21:17 |
| bac | ok. | 21:17 |
| thumper | see my email from yesterday | 21:17 |
| bac | thanks | 21:17 |
| bac | i'll look | 21:18 |
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