/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/01/06/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

Silver_Fox_	Shall we begin?	00:00
Joeb454	sounds good to me Silver_Fox_	00:00
Silver_Fox_	Okay.	00:00
starcraftman	I haz arrived, and perfectly on time!	00:00
Silver_Fox_	#startmeeting	00:00
MootBot	Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is Silver_Fox_.	00:01
MootBot	Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]	00:01
Silver_Fox_	[LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings	00:01
MootBot	LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings	00:01
Silver_Fox_	[TOPIC]Team channels, support in main channel or -help	00:01
MootBot	New Topic: Team channels, support in main channel or -help	00:01
Silver_Fox_	Go bodhi_zazen	00:01
bodhi_zazen	Thanks	00:02
bodhi_zazen	I think it has been decided to move support to -help as much a possible	00:02
bodhi_zazen	-help is much more active these days - go team	00:02
bodhi_zazen	and feel free to ping me if assistance is needed	00:03
IngForigua	Hi today is the beginners team meeting?	00:03
Silver_Fox_	Yes IngForigua	00:03
bodhi_zazen	short support questions are "OK" from time to time in the main channel	00:03
starcraftman	Oh ok, so we not changing it to the main then? cabaret just turning into an alt hangout then?	00:03
IngForigua	there are beginners team in spanish?	00:03
bodhi_zazen	I would prefer to keep -beginners to team business and more "formal" and move as much team banter as possible to ##cabaret	00:04
Joeb454	bodhi_zazen: but then what purpose does -beginners serve?	00:04
bodhi_zazen	doing so has reduced the number of complaints I have recieved drastically	00:04
Silver_Fox_	Is that not -beginners not banter channel anymore?	00:05
starcraftman	bodhi_zazen: hmmmm, alright, so cabaret for really random stuff and main more "proper". I got ya.	00:05
bodhi_zazen	although be aware ##cabaret is not an official ubuntu channel and so you may see some fairly off topic banter / links	00:05
bodhi_zazen	yes please starcraftman	00:05
bodhi_zazen	Please try to banter in ##cabaret	00:05
Silver_Fox_	Okay, shall we move onto the vote?	00:06
pleia2	is ##cabaret subject to the CoC?	00:06
bodhi_zazen	I do not personally mind banter in the main channel, but at the team has grown banter seems to be causing issues	00:06
bodhi_zazen	Not that I know of pleia2	00:06
pleia2	ok, I won't be joining then	00:07
lukjadOO7	So what is the vote exactly?	00:07
bodhi_zazen	my understanding is ## channels are "unofficial"	00:07
bodhi_zazen	2 votes if you want	00:07
bodhi_zazen	1 - support to -help	00:07
Silver_Fox_	Okay.	00:07
bodhi_zazen	and	00:07
bodhi_zazen	2 - banter to ##cabaret	00:07
lukjadOO7	bodhi_zazen: While I am in ##cabaret, I don't feel as comfortable chatting there.	00:07
bodhi_zazen	LOL	00:07
bodhi_zazen	why lukjadOO7 ?	00:08
canthus13	Why not adopt an o4o policy similar to -offtopic?	00:08
canthus13	rather than spreading out over more channels.	00:08
bodhi_zazen	canthus13: what is that ? o4o policy ?	00:08
lukjadOO7	bodhi_zazen: Because it's not with the CoC, so I feel somewhat uncertain as to what goes.	00:08
maco	!o4o > bodhi_zazen	00:08
ubottu	bodhi_zazen, please see my private message	00:08
paultag	sorry I'm late :)	00:08
canthus13	o4o is basically a policy that outlines topics where people should tread lightly.	00:08
canthus13	maco: thanks.	00:09
* canthus13 didn't realize ubottu was in here. :)		00:09
dvz-	why not again, cut out help: ubuntu-beginners == support channel and ubuntu-team == team banter and or team business?	00:09
jgoguen	.msg ubottu !o4o	00:09
bodhi_zazen	mainly for two reasons	00:09
nigel_nb	dvz-: +1	00:09
dvz-	leaves us still at 2 channels both of which can be governed by coc	00:09
bodhi_zazen	#1 is that policy is really not working in the main channel	00:09
jgoguen	dvz-: I thought that was proposed and shot down once?	00:09
dvz-	jgoguen: this whole issue has been proposed and shot down many times.	00:10
dvz-	more than once and by more than one person	00:10
lukjadOO7	bodhi_zazen: Another thing is that I don't care to spread out chat on many different channels.	00:10
bodhi_zazen	We (I) get too many complaints when the team banters in the main channel	00:10
paultag	+1 bodhi_zazen	00:10
maco	is that because it's banter or because of the specific topic of the banter?	00:10
Silver_Fox_	Sorry but this is getting on. I propose that this be discussed some more and we move onto another topic.	00:10
Silver_Fox_	We have a full agenda	00:11
starcraftman	I think we can just move to up down vote on bodhi's suggestions.	00:11
lukjadOO7	Okay, can we vote about the moving help to -help?:	00:11
lukjadOO7	Silver_Fox_: ^	00:11
paultag	maco, we get off topic in #ubuntu-beginners, and most people expect help to be there.	00:11
maco	paultag: ah ok	00:11
bodhi_zazen	The team, in general, seems unable to tolerate o4o topics and there has been a real breakdown in tolerance in the main channel, IMO	00:11
paultag	maco, where our real help channel is #ubuntu-beginners-help :)	00:11
dvz-	bodhi_zazen: and we get too many comlaints when people help others in the main channel....other than these meetings, what team business is of so great of time investment that it deems we need a new channel for offtopic?	00:11
bodhi_zazen	We should move these meeting to the main channel, IMO	00:12
lukjadOO7	dvz-: I agree, but some people are upset about it.	00:12
nhandler	persia: I know I'm a bit late, but freenode guidelines would still apply, but that is about it (re ##cabaret)	00:12
nhandler	err pleia2	00:12
bodhi_zazen	dvz-: it is more that I am tired of the complaints	00:12
dvz-	lukjadOO7: if we limited the team channel to strictly business, then it would remain idle a majority of the time then.	00:12
starcraftman	So bodhi's proposal to summarize as I get it: Help -> long answer support and beginners -> proper team business/short support and cabaret > banter really off topic, unCoC.	00:12
bodhi_zazen	either the team needs to be more tolerant and polite or move the banter	00:12
lukjadOO7	dvz-: Yes, I know.	00:12
starcraftman	Can we have 1 vote on all that.	00:13
pleia2	nhandler: I knew the general rules for ## channels, I was just hoping that even though unofficial, a banter channel promoted by an official Ubuntu project would also be held to the CoC, it makes me very uncomfortable that it doesn't	00:13
nigel_nb	we'll split the votes into 3?	00:13
lukjadOO7	dvz-: I'm not for it, but I understand bodhi_zazen's point of view. I'm going to +0 it	00:13
lukjadOO7	dvz-: Actualy I'll -0 it	00:13
pleia2	(which is why I won't go there)	00:13
nhandler	pleia2: It isn't in the Ubuntu name space either, so not even the Ubuntu IRC Guidelines would really apply.	00:13
lukjadOO7	pleia2: +1	00:13
lukjadOO7	I would suggest that perhaps a code of conduct be created for ##cabaret ?	00:14
pleia2	nhandler: just because they aren't required to apply, doesn't mean we can't say they do :)	00:14
dvz-	i guess I'm not completely aware of what the "offtopic" banter that seems to offend people is	00:14
lukjadOO7	It need not be too strict, but something to keep people feel safe	00:14
drs305	lukjadOO7: It's not "our" channel.	00:14
pleia2	lukjadOO7: is the CoC too strict?	00:14
lukjadOO7	pleia2: I don't think so.	00:15
pleia2	nor do I	00:15
lukjadOO7	pleia2: I'm just saying that we create a new CoC for the channel	00:15
nhandler	pleia2: I personally do not have any reason with not holding people to the CoC in there	00:15
nhandler	lukjadOO7: Is there any part of the Ubuntu CoC that people do not believe should apply there?	00:16
nigel_nb	lukjadOO7: can we have CoC apply to the channel?	00:16
PabloRubianes	sorry i am late	00:16
lukjadOO7	I would personally like to see the channel be under the CoC.	00:16
nigel_nb	+1 lukjadOO7	00:16
lukjadOO7	nigel_nb: I don't see why not.	00:16
starcraftman	PabloRubianes: s'okay we haven't really gotten anywhere.	00:16
nhandler	We already hold people to the CoC in -beginners	00:16
maco	+1 lukjadOO7	00:16
* pleia2 nods		00:16
* starcraftman puts on music and waits for a bit of agreement.		00:16
duanedesign	if we put cabareet under the CoC then what makes it different than #ubuntu-beginners	00:16
Silver_Fox_	Okay, Any more comments or questions. I would like to put up a vote that this topic be discussed at a later date.	00:16
lukjadOO7	If the channel can't use the CoC for legal reasons or wordings, I suggest we copy/paste it	00:17
jgoguen	duanedesign: The fact that ##cabaret isn't somewhere users come expecting some help?	00:17
bodhi_zazen	I think we need to at least vote on moving support to -help	00:17
lukjadOO7	And name it the Code of Cabaret.	00:17
starcraftman	Silver_Fox_: make sure vote topic clear. We have discussed a few alternate suggestions.	00:17
drs305	How are we setting guidelines for a channel not ours - open to anyone who happens along?	00:17
canthus13	rename #ubuntu-beginners to #ubuntu-beginners-team and keep -help the same.	00:17
paultag	better yet:	00:17
lukjadOO7	drs305: It was created by bodhi_zazen I believe	00:18
paultag	Rename #ubuntu-beginners-help to #ubuntu-beginners, and create #ubuntu-beginners-team, or -cafe	00:18
jgoguen	drs305: The same as other channels set guidelines that all users entering are expected to adhere to	00:18
nigel_nb	paultag: +1 (that would do)	00:18
paultag	It would clear up a _lot_ of confusion	00:18
paultag	Silver_Fox_, and I suggested this before	00:18
dvz-	+1 paultag	00:18
nigel_nb	paultag's suggestion would clear a lot of confusion	00:18
nigel_nb	and it would help keep a team channel for offtopic under the CoC	00:18
bodhi_zazen	paultag: easier to move -help to -team	00:18
starcraftman	paultag: then all long support questions and official business in the team channel and cafe for CoC talk. Right?	00:19
nigel_nb	either way, the idea is the same	00:19
paultag	bodhi_zazen, yeah, but people assume #ubuntu-beginners, is for beginners, and -cafe does not look like a support channel	00:19
nigel_nb	exactly	00:19
paultag	bodhi_zazen, we get a lot of incoming support questions in -beginners that we have to tell to /join #ubuntu-beginners-help	00:19
dvz-	bodhi_zazen: last meeting or so ago, someone else (paul or silver) offered to redo the access permissions on the channels, i believe	00:19
paultag	I'll do it	00:20
paultag	I don't mind tedious work	00:20
nigel_nb	Silver_Fox_: is it possible to vote on paultag's suggestion?	00:20
dvz-	bodhi_zazen: should we choose that route... i remember the one complaint when i propsed the idea initially was "too much of a hassle setting permissions"	00:20
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] Make off topic channel #ubuntu-beginners-cafe	00:20
MootBot	Please vote on: Make off topic channel #ubuntu-beginners-cafe.	00:20
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:20
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:20
jgoguen	+1	00:20
MootBot	+1 received from jgoguen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:20
dvz-	+1	00:20
MootBot	+1 received from dvz-. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:20
bodhi_zazen	Why do we need 4 channels -beginner -team -help and -cafe ?	00:20
MootBot	Private +1 vote received. 3 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:20
MootBot	Private +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 4	00:20
pleia2	+1	00:20
MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:20
paultag	bodhi_zazen, we would get rid of team and help	00:20
Rocket2DMn	+0	00:21
jgoguen	bodhi_zazen: As I see it, -help is redirected to -beginners	00:21
MootBot	Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:21
paultag	bodhi_zazen, just -beginners, and -beginners-cafe	00:21
Silver_Fox_	+1	00:21
starcraftman	+0	00:21
drs305	+0	00:21
MootBot	Abstention received from starcraftman. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:21
MootBot	+1 received from Silver_Fox_. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:21
MootBot	Abstention received from drs305. 6 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:21
lukjadOO7	This is somewhat confusing.	00:21
Joeb454	+1	00:21
MootBot	+1 received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:21
PabloRubianes	+1	00:21
MootBot	+1 received from PabloRubianes. 8 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:21
IngForigua	+1	00:21
nhandler	+0	00:21
MootBot	+1 received from IngForigua. 9 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 9	00:21
MootBot	Abstention received from nhandler. 9 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 9	00:21
lukjadOO7	+0	00:21
MootBot	Abstention received from lukjadOO7. 9 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 9	00:21
Silver_Fox_	Any more votes?	00:21
bodhi_zazen	and I agree with pleia2 , I do not want -cafe to be under the CoC, at least I do not want off topic o4o banter associated with this team =)	00:21
dvz-	bodhi_zazen: we would ultimately be switching -help to -beginners .... -beginners to -beginners-team ... and -beginners-cafe to banter..then dropping -help i believe is the proposed idea	00:21
bodhi_zazen	-1	00:21
MootBot	-1 received from bodhi_zazen. 9 for, 1 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:21
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:21
MootBot	Final result is 9 for, 1 against. 5 abstained. Total: 8	00:21
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED]	00:22
MootBot	AGREED received:	00:22
Silver_Fox_	whoops ;)	00:22
lukjadOO7	Uhhh	00:22
bodhi_zazen	dvz-: why not leave -beginners and simply move -help to -team	00:22
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED] Make off topic channel #ubuntu-beginners-cafe	00:22
MootBot	AGREED received: Make off topic channel #ubuntu-beginners-cafe	00:22
nhandler	I would be glad to help with the actual channel management to handle this stuff	00:22
dvz-	bodhi_zazen: clears up confusion for NON-team members	00:22
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] Move -help to #ubuntu-beginners	00:22
MootBot	Please vote on: Move -help to #ubuntu-beginners.	00:22
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:22
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:22
paultag	+1	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:23
Silver_Fox_	+1	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from Silver_Fox_. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:23
pleia2	+1	00:23
nhandler	+0	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:23
MootBot	Abstention received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:23
dvz-	ubuntu-beginners (non-members view this as help for beginners0, not a team channel)	00:23
paultag	nhandler, roger :)	00:23
bodhi_zazen	+1	00:23
PabloRubianes	+1	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from bodhi_zazen. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from PabloRubianes. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:23
drs305	-1	00:23
MootBot	-1 received from drs305. 5 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4	00:23
lukjadOO7	+0	00:23
MootBot	Abstention received from lukjadOO7. 5 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4	00:23
dvz-	+1	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from dvz-. 6 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:23
Joeb454	+1	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from Joeb454. 7 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:23
Rocket2DMn	-1	00:23
MootBot	-1 received from Rocket2DMn. 7 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:23
swoody	+1	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from swoody. 8 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:23
duanedesign	+1	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from duanedesign. 9 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:23
nigel_nb	+1	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from nigel_nb. 10 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:23
jgoguen	+1	00:23
MootBot	+1 received from jgoguen. 11 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 9	00:23
Silver_Fox_	Any more votes?	00:23
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:23
MootBot	Final result is 11 for, 2 against. 2 abstained. Total: 9	00:23
bodhi_zazen	I can see two channels -beginners and -beginners-team	00:23
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED] Move -help to #ubuntu-beginners.	00:24
MootBot	AGREED received: Move -help to #ubuntu-beginners.	00:24
dvz-	bodhi_zazen: right...and for the offtopic...i don't care if it's -cafe or if it's cabaret..or whatever else we decide	00:24
dvz-	+1	00:24
PabloRubianes	cabaret is no longer use?	00:24
bodhi_zazen	we need to discuss off topic / banter	00:24
bodhi_zazen	we either need to be more tolerant as a team	00:24
lukjadOO7	Are we voting on the policy on #ubuntu-beginners-cafe ?	00:24
* bodhi_zazen points out the vast majority of complaints come from team members		00:25
bodhi_zazen	or move the banter out of #beginners space	00:25
drs305	Are the complaints being aired during the discussions? I haven't seen them.	00:25
bodhi_zazen	drs305: no, the complaints come to me in PM, and then I try to resolve the issues	00:26
jgoguen	I don't necessarily think the lack of public complaints should be taken as any implication that there isn't a problem	00:26
bodhi_zazen	+1 jgoguen	00:26
dvz-	good point drs305 ...i haven't been around much due to family issues - but if someone has a complaint, i think that they should have the courtesy to bring it up to the person that offended them either in PM or chat before going to the team lead immediately	00:26
nigel_nb	bodhi_zazen: can I suggest that if someone has any issue with another person, PM directly	00:26
drs305	I believe courtesy includes asking for a cessation of the behavior at the time rather than a PM to bodhi.	00:26
paultag	nigel_nb, but sometimes it's hard	00:26
lukjadOO7	Maybe we could wait until the next meeting to actually work on the cafe and offtopic?	00:26
bodhi_zazen	seriously, the banter is problematic and I do not see moving to another official ubuntu channel or a channel associated with the BT as a solution	00:27
jgoguen	An assumption like that forces people to speak out who may not be comfortable doing so, meaning they'll not speak out and possibly leave thinking we're a bunch of hooligans	00:27
maco	what if the complaint is about the team lead?	00:27
dvz-	it's a two way street...if you're offended by someone, we can't read your minds, talk to that person about it...it may be as simple as a pm and talking to them about it.	00:27
lukjadOO7	Or until the end?	00:27
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] Move non COC compliant banter to ##cabaret	00:27
MootBot	Please vote on: Move non COC compliant banter to ##cabaret.	00:27
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:27
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:27
bodhi_zazen	+1	00:27
MootBot	+1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:27
Silver_Fox_	+1	00:27
nhandler	+0	00:27
MootBot	Abstention received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:27
MootBot	+1 received from Silver_Fox_. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:27
jgoguen	+1	00:27
MootBot	+1 received from jgoguen. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:27
swoody	+1	00:27
MootBot	+1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4	00:27
paultag	+1	00:27
MootBot	+1 received from paultag. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:27
PabloRubianes	+1	00:27
MootBot	+1 received from PabloRubianes. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:27
nigel_nb	+0	00:27
dvz-	+1	00:27
MootBot	Abstention received from nigel_nb. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:27
MootBot	+1 received from dvz-. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:27
starcraftman	+0	00:27
MootBot	Abstention received from starcraftman. 7 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:27
lukjadOO7	-0	00:27
paultag	nigel_nb, like take for example, me. If I do something that offends, most people have met me since the beginning, and if I do something dumb, it's hard to confront a more senior member, rather then a neutral lead like bodhi_zazen	00:27
Joeb454	+0	00:27
MootBot	Abstention received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:27
lukjadOO7	+0	00:27
MootBot	Abstention received from lukjadOO7. 7 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:27
duanedesign	+1	00:27
MootBot	+1 received from duanedesign. 8 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:27
drs305	+0	00:27
MootBot	Abstention received from drs305. 8 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:27
Rocket2DMn	+0	00:27
MootBot	Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 8 for, 0 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:27
pleia2	+0	00:27
MootBot	Abstention received from pleia2. 8 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:27
jgoguen	maco: There's a council mailing list that's private...admittedly the team lead is on that list, but there's enough other people on it that it should be able to be fairly dealt with	00:27
dvz-	paultag: i have no qualms confronting you :-D	00:27
nigel_nb	paultag: suggestion	00:28
IngForigua	+1	00:28
MootBot	+1 received from IngForigua. 9 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 9	00:28
paultag	dvz-, I know that :)	00:28
paultag	nigel_nb, yo	00:28
pleia2	(I don't think we should be promoting an out of namespace channel that doesn't adhere to ubuntu community standards)	00:28
nigel_nb	can we have a formal process for this?	00:28
Silver_Fox_	Any more votes?	00:28
lukjadOO7	pleia2:	00:28
maco	+1 pleia2	00:28
juju2143	+1	00:28
MootBot	+1 received from maco. 10 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 10	00:28
MootBot	+1 received from juju2143. 11 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 11	00:28
bodhi_zazen	pleia2: we are not promoting any such thing	00:28
maco	oh bah. ignore mine. im not a votable person	00:28
nhandler	pleia2: Nobody said anything about acitvely promoting it afaik	00:28
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:28
MootBot	Final result is 11 for, 0 against. 8 abstained. Total: 11	00:28
nigel_nb	paultag: in case you are offended, mail the person with a copy to the bt council	00:28
dvz-	pleia2: i think this is merely a, "if it doesn't relate to the team, take it elsewhere"	00:28
nigel_nb	so there can be a resolution and somone else gets to know about it and mediate	00:28
paultag	nigel_nb, yeah, but again, if they are on the council, that can be hard	00:28
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED]Move non COC compliant banter to ##cabaret.	00:29
MootBot	AGREED received: Move non COC compliant banter to ##cabaret.	00:29
pleia2	fair enough	00:29
nigel_nb	paultag: we cud make a friendly approach to it	00:29
nigel_nb	paultag: something for the stalker fG?	00:29
paultag	nigel_nb, perhaps :)	00:29
dvz-	we have a stalker fg?	00:29
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] -help to forward to #ubuntu-beginners	00:29
MootBot	Please vote on: -help to forward to #ubuntu-beginners.	00:29
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:29
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:29
dvz-	why wasn't i told about this?	00:29
paultag	dvz-, that group may or may not exist	00:29
paultag	+1	00:29
MootBot	+1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:29
nigel_nb	+1	00:29
nhandler	+0	00:29
MootBot	+1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:29
MootBot	Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:29
Silver_Fox_	+1	00:29
MootBot	+1 received from Silver_Fox_. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:29
jgoguen	+1	00:29
MootBot	+1 received from jgoguen. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4	00:29
duanedesign	+1	00:29
MootBot	+1 received from duanedesign. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:29
dvz-	+1	00:29
MootBot	+1 received from dvz-. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:29
Joeb454	+1	00:29
MootBot	+1 received from Joeb454. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:30
bodhi_zazen	+0	00:30
MootBot	Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:30
swoody	+1	00:30
MootBot	+1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:30
Rocket2DMn	+0	00:30
MootBot	Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 8 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:30
lukjadOO7	+1	00:30
MootBot	+1 received from lukjadOO7. 9 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 9	00:30
lukjadOO7	+0	00:30
pleia2	+1	00:30
MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 10 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 10	00:30
starcraftman	+1	00:30
MootBot	+1 received from starcraftman. 11 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 11	00:30
Silver_Fox_	Any more votes?	00:30
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:30
MootBot	Final result is 11 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 11	00:30
drs305	-1	00:30
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED]-help to forward to #ubuntu-beginners	00:31
MootBot	AGREED received: -help to forward to #ubuntu-beginners	00:31
Silver_Fox_	[TOPIC]BT Roadmap	00:31
MootBot	New Topic: BT Roadmap	00:31
Silver_Fox_	Go bodhi_zazen	00:31
bodhi_zazen	Anyone have any comments on the roadmap ?	00:31
duanedesign	o/	00:31
nhandler	bodhi_zazen: Do you have a link to the draft of it handy?	00:31
nigel_nb	bodhi_zazen: link please?	00:31
lukjadOO7	bodhi_zazen: Roadmap link?	00:32
bodhi_zazen	I put the item on the agenda, but was hoping others were taking the lead on this	00:32
duanedesign	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/duanedesign/sandbox	00:32
duanedesign	^^^^	00:32
bodhi_zazen	thanks duanedesign	00:32
duanedesign	I have a working draft in my sanbox	00:32
nhandler	bodhi_zazen: It has been on for a while (I think I initially added it a few months ago)	00:32
Silver_Fox_	[LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/duanedesign/sandbox	00:32
MootBot	LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/duanedesign/sandbox	00:32
nigel_nb	Suggestion: Can we have something like the bugsquad's 5-a-day?	00:32
duanedesign	I think there are some good ideas there	00:32
lukjadOO7	Looks find to me	00:32
nigel_nb	for answers, bugs, and forum help	00:33
jgoguen	nigel_nb: Sounds like a good idea!	00:33
bodhi_zazen	6 weeks I think nhandler	00:33
Silver_Fox_	Okay, if nothing to vote I on I am going to move onto the next topic.	00:33
nhandler	bodhi_zazen: Hmm...Feels like longer	00:33
Silver_Fox_	[TOPIC]Remove the Stalkers FG from BT Structure	00:33
MootBot	New Topic: Remove the Stalkers FG from BT Structure	00:33
starcraftman	bodhi_zazen: Oh right this thing, my only comment is not exactly sure I'm a fan of the wiki one. I'm planning a doc meeting soon so we might discuss such a target.	00:33
paultag	oh WTF	00:33
paultag	-1	00:33
paultag	the Stalker FG does good work :)	00:34
Silver_Fox_	Hmm, ibuclaw is not here.	00:34
nigel_nb	Silver_Fox_: can we hold off on this one?	00:34
lukjadOO7	I'm against that	00:34
bodhi_zazen	ibuclaw asked me to discuss this topic	00:34
paultag	I'm in the stalking FG, I can address this :)	00:34
Silver_Fox_	Go bodhi_zazen then =]	00:34
nigel_nb	Silver_Fox_: we could potentially add more duties to stalker FG	00:34
bodhi_zazen	basically, the purpose of the stalker group is quality control on the forms	00:34
bodhi_zazen	I do not think the stalkers group has bee active	00:34
bodhi_zazen	or perhaps it needs a new lead ?	00:34
Joeb454	I'm off, not feeling great. Sorry guys	00:34
paultag	bodhi_zazen, who is lead now? sdennie?	00:35
nhandler	Bye Joeb454	00:35
lukjadOO7	Later Joeb454	00:35
Silver_Fox_	Bye Joeb454 .	00:35
nigel_nb	bodhi_zazen: can we add quality control on IRC to stalker FG?	00:35
bodhi_zazen	the idea is that all team members should participate in quality control	00:35
bodhi_zazen	we could	00:35
nigel_nb	bodhi_zazen: addressing complaints and issues with other members..	00:35
lukjadOO7	bodhi_zazen: I suggest we make it have a better and broader focus	00:35
bodhi_zazen	I think we either need to	00:35
bodhi_zazen	1. Find a lead for the stalkers, and revitalize it ...	00:35
bodhi_zazen	or	00:35
paultag	OK, speaking on behalf:	00:35
bodhi_zazen	2. Eliminate it	00:35
nigel_nb	I can help lead it (if u're okay with me leading that is)	00:36
nhandler	I think having the entire team participate in quality control sounds like a better solution for the long run	00:36
jgoguen	nigel_nb: Quality control on IRC, IIRC, is the domain of the IRC FG as part of their mandate of help on IRC	00:36
paultag	All of the members of the FG are regularly on IRC, LP and UF, and when we come across and BT member we take a look at it.	00:36
bodhi_zazen	nigel_nb: I think moving the banter to ##cabaret is going to resolve 99.9 % of the current complaints	00:36
paultag	I always ( _always_ ) watch IRC for quality of UBT members' help, and I think that is part of the stalking FG	00:36
jgoguen	Having said that, I agree with nhandler	00:36
nigel_nb	agree, but as paultag said ealier, it would be nice to have a small group to deal with it	00:36
bodhi_zazen	removing a few problematic users from the channel has been effective on the rest of the complaints	00:36
nhandler	paultag: I think most of us pay attention to the work of fellow BT members throughout the community	00:37
paultag	nhandler, +1	00:37
bodhi_zazen	If we are going to expand the focus , what irc channels ?	00:37
paultag	bodhi_zazen, it would have to be #ubuntu-beginners, and #ubuntu	00:37
bodhi_zazen	#ubuntu ? -beginners ? our channels only ?	00:37
jgoguen	bodhi_zazen: At least the #ubuntu-beginners-* channels, and also if BT members are helping in #ubuntu	00:37
paultag	bodhi_zazen, well, the UBT members are UBT members through Ubuntu, we should be making sure our good name is intact ;)	00:37
bodhi_zazen	Sounds good to me	00:38
paultag	+1 jgoguen	00:38
bodhi_zazen	who would like to lead ?	00:38
nhandler	bodhi_zazen: This is why I feel it would be better to just get rid of the formal group and have it as a more informal quality control process	00:38
lukjadOO7	jgoguen: +2	00:38
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] Remove Stalker FG	00:38
MootBot	Please vote on: Remove Stalker FG.	00:38
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:38
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:38
paultag	I am in charge to two teams. I would not take on another	00:38
nhandler	+1	00:38
MootBot	+1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:38
Silver_Fox_	+1	00:38
MootBot	+1 received from Silver_Fox_. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:38
lukjadOO7	-1	00:38
MootBot	-1 received from lukjadOO7. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:38
paultag	-1	00:38
MootBot	-1 received from paultag. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0	00:38
nigel_nb	-1	00:38
MootBot	-1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1	00:38
jgoguen	nhandler: Would you have the council handle quality problems then?	00:38
bodhi_zazen	+0	00:38
MootBot	Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1	00:38
PabloRubianes	-1	00:38
MootBot	-1 received from PabloRubianes. 2 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2	00:38
drs305	0	00:38
nigel_nb	I can help whoever is leading	00:38
drs305	+0	00:38
MootBot	Abstention received from drs305. 2 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2	00:38
nhandler	jgoguen: I see no issue with that	00:38
lukjadOO7	jgoguen: The higher level ones that can't be handled	00:38
MootBot	Private -1 vote received. 2 for, 5 against, 2 have abstained. Count is now -3	00:38
jgoguen	+1	00:39
MootBot	+1 received from jgoguen. 3 for, 5 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2	00:39
bodhi_zazen	If we keep the team, we need a lead	00:39
paultag	bodhi_zazen, +1	00:39
dvz-	+0	00:39
MootBot	Abstention received from dvz-. 3 for, 5 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -2	00:39
lukjadOO7	jgoguen: You voted wrong	00:39
Silver_Fox_	Any more votes?	00:39
jgoguen	>_<	00:39
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:39
MootBot	Final result is 3 for, 5 against. 3 abstained. Total: -2	00:39
jgoguen	lukjadOO7: Not like it changed the result :)	00:39
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED] Keep stalker FG	00:39
MootBot	AGREED received: Keep stalker FG	00:39
paultag	Now, Leads:	00:39
paultag	Who wants to lead the team?	00:39
lukjadOO7	jgoguen: Well, yeah. But closer	00:39
* jgoguen notes to extra-careful read the topic twice next time		00:40
nhandler	I think we should hold off on choosing a lead until at least the next meeting	00:40
paultag	fair enough nhandler	00:40
nigel_nb	paultag: If u can take the lead, I'll help you with everything	00:40
nhandler	That way, members who are not present now have a chance to put their name forward	00:40
nigel_nb	nhandler: +1	00:40
paultag	nigel_nb, I won't take lead, I have two FGs already ;)	00:40
paultag	+1 nhandler	00:40
paultag	nigel_nb, put yourself in there :)	00:40
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] Decided new leads at next meeting	00:40
MootBot	Please vote on: Decided new leads at next meeting.	00:40
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:40
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:40
cjohnston	make a page for people to nominate themselves?	00:40
Silver_Fox_	+1	00:40
nhandler	+1	00:40
MootBot	+1 received from Silver_Fox_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:40
MootBot	+1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:40
paultag	+1	00:40
jgoguen	+	00:40
MootBot	+1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:40
pleia2	+1	00:40
nigel_nb	+1	00:40
jgoguen	+1	00:40
MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4	00:40
PabloRubianes	+1	00:40
MootBot	+1 received from nigel_nb. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:40
swoody	+1	00:40
MootBot	+1 received from jgoguen. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:40
starcraftman	+1	00:40
MootBot	+1 received from PabloRubianes. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:40
MootBot	+1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:41
MootBot	+1 received from starcraftman. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9	00:41
MootBot	Private +1 vote received. 10 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 10	00:41
dvz-	+1	00:41
lukjadOO7	+1	00:41
MootBot	+1 received from dvz-. 11 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 11	00:41
MootBot	+1 received from lukjadOO7. 12 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 12	00:41
drs305	+1	00:41
MootBot	+1 received from drs305. 13 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 13	00:41
Silver_Fox_	Any more votes?	00:41
jgoguen	lukjadOO7: Although realistically, if everyone does quality control that's a major part of the stalker FG suddenly handled by everyone, unless we say Stalkers is like Forums and everyone is implicitly part of it	00:41
* starcraftman is munching food why he's a bit quiet.		00:41
bodhi_zazen	+0	00:41
MootBot	Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 13 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 13	00:41
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:41
MootBot	Final result is 13 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 13	00:41
* jgoguen takes starcraftman's food		00:41
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED] Decide new leads at next meeting	00:41
lukjadOO7	jgoguen: Not everyone is part of the stalkers	00:41
duanedesign	starcraftman: mmm i am so hungry	00:41
MootBot	AGREED received: Decide new leads at next meeting	00:41
paultag	Cool. We should start a Mailing lost on this	00:41
paultag	list *	00:41
jgoguen	lukjadOO7: That's my point :)	00:41
Silver_Fox_	[TOPIC]Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists	00:41
MootBot	New Topic: Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists	00:41
bodhi_zazen	mailing lost, LMAO	00:41
nhandler	Does someone want the action to send it to the list?	00:41
starcraftman	jgoguen: That's it, bodhi_zazen, I'm filling a complaint, you saw him swipe it right off my plate!	00:41
Silver_Fox_	Go nhandler	00:41
paultag	+1 -- great idea	00:42
nigel_nb	+1	00:42
lukjadOO7	jgoguen: I suggest that people have to be inducted in	00:42
bodhi_zazen	move to vote ?	00:42
paultag	bodhi_zazen, yup	00:42
nhandler	We have several lists of FG members that we currently maintain. Most have outdated lists on the wiki	00:42
paultag	LP is a lot better then wiki	00:42
jgoguen	And more accurate	00:42
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE]Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists	00:42
MootBot	Please vote on: Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists.	00:42
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:42
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:42
Silver_Fox_	-1	00:42
MootBot	-1 received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1	00:42
nigel_nb	and it expires too	00:42
bodhi_zazen	+10	00:42
paultag	+1	00:42
MootBot	+1 received from paultag. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0	00:42
nigel_nb	+1	00:42
pleia2	+1	00:42
MootBot	+1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:42
bodhi_zazen	+1	00:42
nhandler	+1	00:42
MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:42
MootBot	+1 received from bodhi_zazen. 4 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:42
swoody	+1	00:42
drs305	+1	00:42
jgoguen	+1	00:42
lukjadOO7	+0	00:42
MootBot	Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 1 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 4	00:42
starcraftman	I wanted clarity on this, is it just main membership or FGs too?	00:42
MootBot	+1 received from nhandler. 6 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:42
MootBot	+1 received from drs305. 7 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:42
dvz-	+0	00:42
MootBot	+1 received from swoody. 8 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:42
starcraftman	+1	00:42
MootBot	+1 received from jgoguen. 9 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:42
MootBot	Abstention received from lukjadOO7. 9 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:42
jgoguen	starcraftman: Main AFAIK	00:42
paultag	starcraftman, everything	00:42
MootBot	Abstention received from dvz-. 9 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:42
MootBot	+1 received from starcraftman. 10 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 9	00:42
lukjadOO7	+0	00:42
nhandler	starcraftman: The ~ubuntu-beginners member list is already the official list for the team	00:43
PabloRubianes	+1	00:43
MootBot	+1 received from PabloRubianes. 11 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10	00:43
nhandler	This is just FGs now	00:43
Silver_Fox_	Anymore votes?	00:43
starcraftman	paultag: so we will make separate groups umbrellad under the main then eh?	00:43
jgoguen	starcraftman: Although if you're not in the main team, you're probably also not on a FG :)	00:43
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:43
MootBot	Final result is 11 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 10	00:43
paultag	starcraftman, yis	00:43
nhandler	They already are starcraftman	00:43
starcraftman	paultag: rgr	00:43
paultag	+1 nhandler	00:43
starcraftman	alright, I'm just checking.	00:43
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED]Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists	00:43
MootBot	AGREED received: Use Launchpad as official member list for FGs and remove wiki lists	00:43
paultag	You can't be in a FG without being in the UBT	00:43
nhandler	You can participate with the FG though	00:43
nhandler	(You just can't be an official member)	00:43
paultag	nhandler, for sure	00:43
Silver_Fox_	[TOPIC] Decision on logging of #ubuntu-beginners	00:44
MootBot	New Topic: Decision on logging of #ubuntu-beginners	00:44
jgoguen	Yes, I worded that poorly	00:44
paultag	nhandler, we have a ton of dev heads that became UBT because of dev	00:44
paultag	nhandler, take dvz- as example :)	00:44
nhandler	:)	00:44
Silver_Fox_	Hmm, easwer is not here	00:44
bodhi_zazen	http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/images/smilies/Beating_a_dead_horse.gif	00:44
MootBot	LINK received: http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/images/smilies/Beating_a_dead_horse.gif	00:44
Silver_Fox_	Heh	00:44
bodhi_zazen	I think moving the banter makes logging of the main channel more palatable to most ?	00:44
starcraftman	logging again?	00:44
nigel_nb	In this case, we'd be logging the place where we help	00:45
bodhi_zazen	see linky starcraftman =)	00:45
nigel_nb	and I'm okay with that	00:45
duanedesign	bodhi_zazen: and the logging might encourage the banter to be moved to cabaret	00:45
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] Leave for now, Discuss more in light of recent team channel changes	00:45
MootBot	Please vote on: Leave for now, Discuss more in light of recent team channel changes.	00:45
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:45
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:45
bodhi_zazen	we need an up or down vote on loging	00:45
Silver_Fox_	+1	00:45
MootBot	+1 received from Silver_Fox_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:45
lukjadOO7	-1	00:45
MootBot	-1 received from lukjadOO7. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0	00:45
nigel_nb	+1	00:45
dvz-	+0	00:45
MootBot	+1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:45
MootBot	Abstention received from dvz-. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:45
starcraftman	+0	00:45
bodhi_zazen	-1	00:45
MootBot	Abstention received from starcraftman. 2 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:45
MootBot	-1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0	00:45
nhandler	+0	00:45
MootBot	Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 2 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0	00:45
PabloRubianes	+0	00:45
MootBot	Abstention received from PabloRubianes. 2 for, 2 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0	00:45
MootBot	Private +1 vote received. 3 for, 2 against, 4 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:46
drs305	+0	00:46
pleia2	+1	00:46
MootBot	Abstention received from drs305. 3 for, 2 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:46
MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 2 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:46
jgoguen	+1	00:46
MootBot	+1 received from jgoguen. 5 for, 2 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:46
paultag	+0	00:46
MootBot	Abstention received from paultag. 5 for, 2 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:46
Silver_Fox_	Anymore votes?	00:46
valindil89	+0	00:46
MootBot	Abstention received from valindil89. 5 for, 2 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:46
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:46
MootBot	Final result is 5 for, 2 against. 7 abstained. Total: 3	00:46
nhandler	Just a reminder, only BT members should be voting	00:46
pleia2	duanedesign: banter goes to -cafe :)	00:46
bodhi_zazen	OK, but I'm warning you, if we do not decide on logs we need to post the dead horse icon and move it off the agenda =)	00:46
lukjadOO7	I just would like to say, that I am not comfortable being logged publically	00:46
Silver_Fox_	Hmm, I don't think that was passed	00:47
Silver_Fox_	Too many abstentions?	00:47
paultag	bodhi_zazen, +1	00:47
nhandler	Silver_Fox_: +0s do not block	00:47
bodhi_zazen	I do not think we voted +1 on -cafe	00:47
Silver_Fox_	Ahh, okay	00:47
paultag	bodhi_zazen, yeah we did :)	00:47
bodhi_zazen	I think the vote was to move banter to ##cabaret	00:47
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED] Leave channel logging until later.	00:47
MootBot	AGREED received: Leave channel logging until later.	00:47
paultag	bodhi_zazen, it was the first vote IIRC	00:48
bodhi_zazen	yes, but that vote covered 3 topics	00:48
Silver_Fox_	[TOPIC]Security Focus Group Plans for next year	00:48
MootBot	New Topic: Security Focus Group Plans for next year	00:48
bodhi_zazen	and the 3 were subsequently voted on	00:48
dvz-	Silver_Fox_: you threw me off...	00:48
Silver_Fox_	Hmm, cprofit is not here.	00:48
dvz-	Silver_Fox_ > [VOTE] Leave for now, Discuss more in light of recent team channel changes "Leave for now" i thought referred to "leave the mtg for now"	00:48
dvz-	o.O	00:49
bodhi_zazen	we do not need to vote if cprofit is not here and did not assign a proxy, just moe on	00:49
Silver_Fox_	[TOPIC] Unvoice members of the beginners team in #ubuntu-beginners, it is against Irc (n)etiquette	00:49
MootBot	New Topic: Unvoice members of the beginners team in #ubuntu-beginners, it is against Irc (n)etiquette	00:49
bodhi_zazen	move	00:49
paultag	-1	00:50
paultag	I find this silly.	00:50
lukjadOO7	+1	00:50
drs305	Why?	00:50
Silver_Fox_	Does anyone know why we should do this?	00:50
lukjadOO7	-1	00:50
lukjadOO7	sorry	00:50
paultag	the use of voice is to show a member from a non-member	00:50
drs305	Not why silly, why unvoice?	00:50
nhandler	I am curious as to what netiquette this violates. Many teams use a similar system (including freenode staff)	00:50
paultag	+1 nhandler	00:50
nigel_nb	pleia2 said its frowned upon in IRC	00:50
paultag	I disagree vehemently	00:50
bodhi_zazen	'The use of voice is frowned upon in Ubuntu channels, we are all "equals"	00:50
nhandler	Being OPed when you don't need to is frowned upon, nothing wrong with voice	00:51
nigel_nb	but if we remove voice, it would lead to bot abuse	00:51
lukjadOO7	I would like to point out that votebot works with voice	00:51
nhandler	bodhi_zazen: It is used in a few Ubuntu channels as well	00:51
nigel_nb	since bot would have to answer to everyone	00:51
persia	Not that I frequent that channel, but one can usually calm a channel with social cues, rather than needing to restrict voice by technical means. Using technical means may also dissuade new productive people from joining.	00:51
nhandler	Don't worry about VoteBot. That should not affect our decision	00:51
bodhi_zazen	I do not think I see voice in our channel that way, and we have so many that come and go, and we do have a very formal membership process, perhaps the most formal I know short of ubuntu membership	00:51
paultag	+1 bodhi_zazen	00:51
lukjadOO7	It also is a useful visual indicator to who is a team member	00:51
paultag	+1 lukjadOO7	00:52
nhandler	persia: Everyone can talk in the channel (it is not +m). Voice is just used to show team members	00:52
paultag	+1 nhandler	00:52
nhandler	Similar to #ubuntu-ops and how we voice people presenting in -classroom	00:52
persia	Ah. Ignore me then :)	00:52
nhandler	:)	00:52
paultag	persia, we are not _that_ bad ;)	00:52
bodhi_zazen	In general, the use of voice has IMO helped people know who to contact in the channel and has worked well	00:52
starcraftman	I don't see any reason to change current policy, all I got to note.	00:52
nhandler	I agree bodhi_zazen	00:52
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] Unvoice members of the beginners team IN #ubuntu-beginners	00:52
jgoguen	I think +v in our channels actually serves a purpose, a new user can come in and will see the +v people first and (I think) be more likely to ask those people things	00:52
MootBot	Please vote on: Unvoice members of the beginners team IN #ubuntu-beginners.	00:52
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:52
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:52
pleia2	it might not be completely kosher irc netiquette-wise, but I think it's useful in -beginners	00:52
Silver_Fox_	-1	00:52
MootBot	-1 received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1	00:52
swoody	-1	00:52
bodhi_zazen	-1	00:52
nhandler	It also helps spot potential new members	00:52
MootBot	-1 received from swoody. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2	00:52
MootBot	-1 received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3	00:52
MootBot	Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 4 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now -4	00:52
jgoguen	-1	00:52
PabloRubianes	-1	00:52
MootBot	-1 received from jgoguen. 0 for, 5 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -5	00:52
paultag	-1	00:52
pleia2	-1	00:52
nigel_nb	-1	00:52
MootBot	-1 received from paultag. 0 for, 6 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -6	00:52
MootBot	-1 received from PabloRubianes. 0 for, 7 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -7	00:52
nhandler	-1	00:53
MootBot	-1 received from pleia2. 0 for, 8 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -8	00:53
lukjadOO7	-1	00:53
MootBot	-1 received from nigel_nb. 0 for, 9 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -9	00:53
MootBot	-1 received from nhandler. 0 for, 10 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -10	00:53
MootBot	-1 received from lukjadOO7. 0 for, 11 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -11	00:53
dvz-	-1	00:53
drs305	-1	00:53
MootBot	-1 received from dvz-. 0 for, 12 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -12	00:53
MootBot	-1 received from drs305. 0 for, 13 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -13	00:53
Silver_Fox_	Anymore votes?	00:53
starcraftman	-1	00:53
MootBot	-1 received from starcraftman. 0 for, 14 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -14	00:53
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:53
MootBot	Final result is 0 for, 14 against. 0 abstained. Total: -14	00:53
cjohnston	wow	00:53
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED] Keep voice	00:53
MootBot	AGREED received: Keep voice	00:53
starcraftman	haven't had a unanimous vote in a while.	00:53
bodhi_zazen	w00t =)	00:53
paultag	Haha, we unanimously hate that	00:53
pleia2	:)	00:53
paultag	w00t!!!	00:53
Silver_Fox_	[TOPIC] New Members =]	00:53
MootBot	New Topic: New Members =]	00:53
nigel_nb	paultag: one big unanimous decision team	00:53
bodhi_zazen	W00T !!!	00:54
nigel_nb	yaay!	00:54
paultag	Who's up today?!	00:54
dvz-	paultag: i am	00:54
nhandler	cjohnston is up first	00:54
Silver_Fox_	First up is cjohnston	00:54
nigel_nb	ikt and cjohnston	00:54
paultag	w00t! cjohnston :)	00:54
cjohnston	o/	00:54
nhandler	cjohnston: Do you have a link to your wiki?	00:54
dvz-	cjohnston: word :D	00:54
Silver_Fox_	[LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cjohnston	00:54
MootBot	LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cjohnston	00:54
cjohnston	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristopherJohnston	00:54
nhandler	cjohnston: Do you want to tell us a little about yourself?	00:54
nigel_nb	cjohnston is already an ubuntu member :)	00:54
paultag	o/	00:55
drs305	nhandler: cj's looking on google for the answer.	00:56
bodhi_zazen	it is OK nigel_nb , we will not hold that against cjohnston	00:56
cjohnston	IRL I am a firefighter paramedic... Around here I am one of the leads on the User Days Team, a member of the Florida LoCo	00:56
cjohnston	lol	00:56
nigel_nb	bodhi_zazen: lol	00:56
paultag	cjohnston, could you tell us about what LoCo work have you done, also a bit about what you did at UDS and what's up with User Days	00:56
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] cjohnston for membership	00:56
MootBot	Please vote on: cjohnston for membership.	00:56
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	00:56
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	00:56
Silver_Fox_	+1	00:56
MootBot	+1 received from Silver_Fox_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	00:56
bodhi_zazen	+1	00:56
nigel_nb	+1	00:56
MootBot	+1 received from nigel_nb. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2	00:56
MootBot	+1 received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3	00:56
nhandler	Wait a minute Silver_Fox_	00:56
drs305	+1	00:56
MootBot	+1 received from drs305. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4	00:56
paultag	Well sonofa	00:56
pleia2	+1	00:56
MootBot	+1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5	00:56
nhandler	We still have questions for him	00:56
Rocket2DMn	+1	00:56
MootBot	+1 received from Rocket2DMn. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6	00:56
paultag	That sucked	00:56
swoody	+1	00:56
paultag	cut off short	00:56
MootBot	+1 received from swoody. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7	00:56
drs305	too late	00:56
paultag	+1	00:56
MootBot	+1 received from paultag. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8	00:56
starcraftman	+1	00:57
Silver_Fox_	Sorry nhandler ,	00:57
paultag	I like you anyway cjohnston :P	00:57
MootBot	+1 received from starcraftman. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9	00:57
bodhi_zazen	paultag: twss	00:57
cjohnston	thanks paultag	00:57
lukjadOO7	+1	00:57
MootBot	+1 received from lukjadOO7. 10 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 10	00:57
paultag	bodhi_zazen, Ha!	00:57
jgoguen	bodhi_zazen: :D	00:57
Silver_Fox_	Anymore votes?	00:57
MootBot	Private +1 vote received. 11 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 11	00:57
starcraftman	cjohnston: keep up the stellar work :)	00:57
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	00:57
MootBot	Final result is 11 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 11	00:57
pleia2	hooray cjohnston :)	00:57
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED] Yay cjohnston	00:57
MootBot	AGREED received: Yay cjohnston	00:57
cjohnston	thanks starcraftman and pleia2	00:57
nigel_nb	congrats cjohnston :)	00:57
dvz-	ahh..+1	00:57
paultag	cjohnston, P.S. you only got away with that because of your record ;)	00:57
swoody	woot! congrats cjohnston :)	00:57
nhandler	Congrats cjohnston	00:57
Silver_Fox_	Well done	00:57
dvz-	i blacked out in FF7	00:57
paultag	cjohnston, congrats :)	00:57
nhandler	cjohnston: What is your LP name?	00:57
cjohnston	thanks all	00:57
cjohnston	chrisjohnston	00:57
nigel_nb	dvz-: again the same thing	00:57
cjohnston	~chrisjohnston	00:58
nigel_nb	dvz-: I believe u slept through mine too...lol	00:58
dvz-	nigel_nb: hrm?	00:58
Silver_Fox_	Next up is ikt	00:58
dvz-	nigel_nb: lmao...ya	00:58
duanedesign	love the pics from Florida Team Birthday Bash / Karmic Release Party, looks fun.	00:58
Silver_Fox_	Who doesn't appear to be here.	00:58
cjohnston	paultag: whats my record? :-x	00:58
nhandler	And forestpiskie isn't here either	00:58
Silver_Fox_	Okay, any last minute things to add by anyone?	00:58
paultag	cjohnston, your wiki is better then most, that's enough to get away with it :)	00:58
nhandler	Silver_Fox_: Should we hold off on voting?	00:58
paultag	Oh shoot, me Silver_Fox_	00:58
cjohnston	lol.. thanks.. i guess	00:58
paultag	Silver_Fox_, UFBT reunion, nhandler, POKE ;)	00:58
nigel_nb	cjohnston: since you strong-armed quite a lot of people ;)	00:59
nhandler	Ah yes	00:59
Silver_Fox_	I would nhandler , neither ikt nor forest are here	00:59
nhandler	Silver_Fox_: o/	00:59
cjohnston	nigel_nb: lol	00:59
Silver_Fox_	Go paultag	00:59
Silver_Fox_	You have 1 minute	00:59
paultag	nhandler, you had the original idea -- hit it up	00:59
Silver_Fox_	Short and sweet :)	00:59
paultag	nhandler, I'll back up where I know :)	00:59
nhandler	The idea is to organize an online reunion of some of the older UFBT members (from back when we were the UFBT)	00:59
nhandler	We have started putting together a list of people to hunt down	01:00
nhandler	[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/UFBTReunion2010	01:00
MootBot	LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/UFBTReunion2010	01:00
dvz-	nhandler: we're not UFBT anymore?	01:00
dvz-	since when?	01:00
dvz-	O.O	01:00
paultag	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/UFBTReunion2010	01:00
paultag	doh, too late :)	01:00
Silver_Fox_	Since a long time.	01:00
lukjadOO7	dvz-: LOL	01:00
duanedesign	what are we doing?	01:00
duanedesign	oops	01:00
Silver_Fox_	Okay I am going to end the meeting. This can be carried on in #ubuntu-beginners	01:00
paultag	duanedesign, quick, 1-2 hour event where old members come back and hang out :)	01:00
nhandler	Silver_Fox_: Why? Nobody is after us	01:01
nigel_nb	isnt ikt around?	01:01
Silver_Fox_	Oh okay then nhandler :)	01:01
Silver_Fox_	Did't see who's next	01:01
nigel_nb	Silver_Fox_: hold on	01:01
dvz-	man, i remember almost all of them...	01:01
dvz-	i feel old.	01:01
Silver_Fox_	Carry on then	01:01
nhandler	Feel free to add people to the list or add info about people already there	01:01
dvz-	i still miss y_lee in -dev	01:01
paultag	dvz-, +1	01:01
nhandler	You can also sign up to contact and hunt down people on the list	01:01
Silver_Fox_	Though I would like to end the meeting in next 10 minutes as it quite early here	01:02
nigel_nb	Silver_Fox_: ikt is here	01:02
nhandler	np Silver_Fox_	01:02
Silver_Fox_	Hey ikt	01:02
ikt	hello all :)	01:02
nhandler	ikt: Do you have a link to your wiki?	01:02
cjohnston	ikt: !	01:02
starcraftman	lo ikt, just in time.	01:02
ikt	yeah: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ikt	01:02
Silver_Fox_	I would like to vote on ikt right now :)	01:02
nhandler	ikt: And could you tell us a bit about yourself and your involvement with the BT ?	01:02
paultag	Hold on Silver_Fox_	01:03
nhandler	[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ikt	01:03
MootBot	LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ikt	01:03
Silver_Fox_	Thanks nhandler , I was just doing that :)	01:03
paultag	ikt, do you have your UF link?	01:03
ikt	yeah, without going into to much detail, 23 years old, heavily involved with computers and ubuntu	01:03
paultag	ikt, you mention being active in the ABT	01:03
cjohnston	http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=362528 <--forums	01:03
MootBot	LINK received: http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=362528 <--forums	01:03
cjohnston	for itk	01:03
cjohnston	ikt:	01:03
paultag	ty cjohnston	01:03
ikt	yeah paultag, visit abt daily looking for 0 reply posts	01:04
nhandler	ikt: What have you done with the BT so far?	01:04
paultag	ikt, how long have you been active in the community for?	01:04
ikt	I believe it was in early 2009 that I started really getting into things	01:04
paultag	cool :)	01:04
dvz-	ikt, what's your favorite built in python function? :-)	01:04
paultag	I'm all set	01:04
paultag	oh wait, one more :)	01:04
cjohnston	lol	01:04
paultag	ikt, what's the airspeed of a swallow?	01:05
paultag	unladen	01:05
lukjadOO7	paultag I was gonna say...	01:05
dvz-	lol..me too paultag ..you're slippin	01:05
swoody	airspeed velocity*	01:05
ikt	:P	01:05
dvz-	ikt those weren't rhetorical questions either :D	01:05
Silver_Fox_	Oh ikt doesn't know... lets vote then :)	01:06
paultag	:(	01:06
Silver_Fox_	[VOTE] ikt for membership	01:06
MootBot	Please vote on: ikt for membership.	01:06
MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot	01:06
MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting	01:06
lukjadOO7	For not knowing, -100000000000000000	01:06
paultag	+1	01:06
Silver_Fox_	+1	01:06
MootBot	+1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1	01:06
MootBot	+1 received from Silver_Fox_. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2	01:06
dvz-	+1	01:06
MootBot	+1 received from dvz-. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3	01:06
lukjadOO7	+1	01:06
swoody	+1	01:06
MootBot	+1 received from lukjadOO7. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4	01:06
bodhi_zazen	+1	01:06
MootBot	+1 received from swoody. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5	01:06
MootBot	+1 received from bodhi_zazen. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6	01:06
MootBot	Private abstention received. 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Count is now 6	01:06
starcraftman	+1	01:06
MootBot	+1 received from starcraftman. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7	01:06
MootBot	Private abstention received. 7 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Count is now 7	01:06
Silver_Fox_	Anymore votes?	01:06
starcraftman	can't be that bad, he's got me friended on forums :)	01:06
nigel_nb	+1	01:07
MootBot	+1 received from nigel_nb. 8 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8	01:07
Silver_Fox_	[ENDVOTE]	01:07
MootBot	Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 8	01:07
swoody	woot!!! Grats ikt :D	01:07
ikt	wooooot :)	01:07
Silver_Fox_	[AGREED] Ikt is in and should watch Holy Grail	01:07
paultag	grats ikt :)	01:07
duanedesign	yeah ikt \o/	01:07
lukjadOO7	Anymore, or are we done?	01:07
MootBot	AGREED received: Ikt is in and should watch Holy Grail	01:07
cjohnston	wtf	01:07
paultag	Silver_Fox_, :)	01:07
paultag	+1	01:07
nigel_nb	I think we're done	01:07
Silver_Fox_	:)	01:07
cjohnston	sorry.. wtg	01:07
ikt	ty all :)	01:07
Silver_Fox_	I think we are done :)	01:07
nhandler	ikt: Do you have a link to your LP profile?	01:07
swoody	cjohnston, lol	01:07
Silver_Fox_	Well done ikt	01:07
lukjadOO7	Congrats ikt and cjohnston	01:07
cjohnston	ty	01:07
* canthus13 should rip holy grail and watch it again.		01:07
ikt	https://launchpad.net/~noname420	01:07
duanedesign	http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/	01:08
MootBot	LINK received: http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/	01:08
Silver_Fox_	#endmeeting	01:08
MootBot	Meeting finished at 19:08.	01:08
Silver_Fox_	Thank you everyone.	01:08
paultag	Later, gaters :)	01:08
nigel_nb	Silver_Fox_: end meeting?	01:09
nigel_nb	ah :)	01:09
=== kirkland` is now known as kirkland
=== txwikinger is now known as txwikinger2
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
=== vorian_ is now known as stalcup
=== stalcup is now known as v
=== starcraft is now known as starcraftman
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== noy_ is now known as noy
=== charlie__ is now known as porthose
=== cypher__ is now known as czajkowski
=== fader\|away is now known as fader_
ttx	o/	13:59
sommer	yo	13:59
* stgraber waves		13:59
erichammond	'lo	13:59
* soren waves		13:59
* jjohansen here		13:59
mjeanson	hi	13:59
jiboumans	o/	13:59
zul	morning	13:59
kirkland_	o/	13:59
mathiaz	i/	13:59
jiboumans	smoser: morning ;)	14:00
kirkland_	mathiaz: did a witchdoctor shrink your head?	14:00
soren	I hate that.	14:00
nijaba`	o/	14:00
smoser	hola	14:00
jiboumans	alright, let's get going	14:00
mathiaz	kirkland_: :) - you don't wanna know	14:00
jiboumans	#startmeeting	14:00
MootBot	Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is jiboumans.	14:00
MootBot	Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]	14:00
jiboumans	[TOPIC] Previous actions points	14:00
MootBot	New Topic: Previous actions points	14:00
zul	mathiaz: lay off the alcohol	14:01
jiboumans	only one outstanding, one me to check with the foundations team what to do with ecryptfs.	14:01
* ivoks o/		14:01
jiboumans	looks like we'll be moving maintenance to the foundations team, but it's pending an OK from colin & hugh. more next week probably	14:01
jiboumans	now, to the more interesting bits:	14:02
alexm	o/	14:02
kirkland_	jiboumans: thx	14:02
jiboumans	[TOPIC] Non-alpha2 targeted specs for lucid	14:02
MootBot	New Topic: Non-alpha2 targeted specs for lucid	14:02
jiboumans	we have a list of 6'ish specs we'd like to dicuss here today. if all is well, ttx mailed the relevant drafters/assignees	14:02
jiboumans	i saw mathiaz here, so let's start there:	14:03
jiboumans	server-lucid-aws-client-libraries (mathiaz)	14:03
jiboumans	mathiaz: to get the ball rolling on this, what do you need from us and the community?	14:04
mathiaz	https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-aws-client-libraries	14:04
mathiaz	jiboumans: decide which libraries are worth packaging	14:04
mathiaz	jiboumans: ie which ones are the most used	14:04
mathiaz	jiboumans: and if there is anything missing	14:04
mathiaz	jiboumans: next step: send an email to ubuntu-cloud@, ubuntu-ec2@ and blog about it	14:05
jiboumans	mathiaz: fair enough. Looks like we have the following languages we're looking to target: Python Perl Php Java Ruby Twisted	14:05
mathiaz	jiboumans: well - the first two WI	14:05
jiboumans	do we have any resident experts on any of those languages?	14:05
erichammond	Perl here	14:05
jiboumans	jiboumans: perl	14:05
jiboumans	erichammond: are you ok with us sharing the action to fill in that list?	14:06
mathiaz	both perl and python seems covered	14:06
mathiaz	only java is missing	14:06
jiboumans	mathiaz: php/ruby?	14:06
mathiaz	which is the other langage that has projects listed	14:06
* nijaba` can volunteer some php testing		14:06
erichammond	jiboumans: I'm ok with you doing it all :) but can help where needed. I just added a link to Amazon's Amazon::SimpleDB	14:06
* zul thinks php is evil		14:07
zul	and ruby	14:07
jiboumans	erichammond: fair enough, won't take me long anyway	14:07
* nijaba` is evil anyway :P		14:07
mathiaz	jiboumans: I don't know if there any projects written in these langages	14:07
mathiaz	jiboumans: more invesitigation is needed	14:07
jiboumans	[ACTION] jib to complete Perl list for AWS client libs	14:07
MootBot	ACTION received: jib to complete Perl list for AWS client libs	14:07
jiboumans	[ACTION] nijaba to complete PHP list for AWS client libs	14:07
MootBot	ACTION received: nijaba to complete PHP list for AWS client libs	14:07
jiboumans	mathiaz: cool, then you get to mail people about that :)	14:07
jiboumans	[ACTION] Mathiaz to send out AWS Client lib RFC	14:08
MootBot	ACTION received: Mathiaz to send out AWS Client lib RFC	14:08
jiboumans	mathiaz: think we can have that list complete by next meeting?	14:08
mathiaz	jiboumans: sure	14:08
jiboumans	cool. bonus points if we can get community packaging efforts going hint hint ;)	14:09
jiboumans	mathiaz: anything else for this spec?	14:09
ttx	jiboumans: let's harness our huge java packaging community :)	14:09
mathiaz	jiboumans: not for now	14:09
jiboumans	ttx: well volunteered!	14:09
jiboumans	ok, moving on	14:10
jiboumans	daviey, dufet: o/	14:10
ivoks	]	14:10
ttx	dyfet ^	14:10
jiboumans	dyfet also	14:10
erichammond	jiboumans: There is a different Amazon::SimpleDB on CPAN which is not high quality, not maintained, and the author did not respond to my questions about its status. My ideal solution would be for Amazon's package to be renamed to Net::Amazon::SimpleDB and added to CPAN and then libnet-amazon-simpledb in Ubuntu.	14:10
jiboumans	erichammond: ack	14:10
jiboumans	kirkland: don't miss that in the summary please ^	14:10
jiboumans	ok, both not around yet, trying again in am inute	14:11
kirkland_	jiboumans: got it!	14:11
jiboumans	ivoks, roaksoax: server-lucid-cluster-stack	14:11
ivoks	i'm here	14:11
ivoks	i've packaged most of the relveant stuff for pacemaker based cluster	14:12
ivoks	everything is on my PPA (https://edge.launchpad.net/~ivoks/+archive/ppa/+packages)	14:12
jiboumans	cool. are you targeting anything else for lucid as part of that spec?	14:12
ivoks	so, i'll be testing latest version of pacemaker during this week and give a proposal on which cluster stack to use in lucid, stay with rhcs or move to pacemaker	14:12
mathiaz	ivoks: what are the consequence for redhat-cluster-suite?	14:13
mathiaz	ivoks: It's related to the demotion of redhat-cluster-suite to universe	14:13
ivoks	mathiaz: if pacemaker ends up good, i'd agree with rhcs dmotion	14:13
mathiaz	ivoks: ok	14:13
ivoks	but if pacemaker isn't there yet, i don't think we should ship lts without cluster solution	14:14
mathiaz	ivoks: I'd suggest to do a call for testing via a blog post to get more feedback on pacemaker	14:14
mathiaz	ivoks: and your ppa packages	14:14
ivoks	that's the plan, right	14:14
ttx	ivoks: s/without/waithout a supported/ ?	14:14
ivoks	ttx: right	14:14
ivoks	sorry for not doing this sooner, i had very little time :(	14:15
jiboumans	ivoks: i'm keen to track this spec as we do with our other blueprints. could you list the TODOs for lucid in the blueprint as described here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto	14:15
ivoks	jiboumans: consider it done	14:15
jiboumans	ivoks++ thanks	14:15
ivoks	(i've seen your comment)	14:15
jiboumans	ivoks: i'm particularly interested in the items that need to be done for alpha3 obviously	14:16
jiboumans	ivoks, anyone else: anything more on this spec?	14:16
ivoks	when is alpha3?	14:16
jiboumans	ivoks: 25th of feb	14:16
soren	Feb 25th.	14:16
jiboumans	ivoks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule # for the full list	14:16
mathiaz	ivoks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule	14:16
ivoks	packages and testing should be done, and we should have clear vision what should be supported cluster	14:17
ivoks	(i'm on GPRS connection, so i might be lagged)	14:17
jiboumans	ivoks: awesome. anyone have somethign to add still?	14:17
nijaba`	ivoks: or http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/UbuntuReleaseSchedule.ics	14:17
jiboumans	ok, moving on: lucid-serverguide (sommer)	14:18
jiboumans	sommer: i realise this is a docs project, but i'm sure we can make your life easier somehow	14:18
sommer	heh, that'd be great... I haven't had much time recently to work on the serverguide, but there have been some bug fixes committed	14:18
sommer	should have more time in the coming weeks as well	14:19
nijaba`	sommer: you did see that www.ubuntu.com/server/doc now works, right?	14:19
sommer	yep, good stuff :)	14:19
nijaba`	sommer: do you need with the wiki linking we talked about?	14:19
nijaba`	s/need/need help/	14:20
sommer	I think I should be able to handle that... it's at the top of my list, but if you'd like to setup some of the pages that'd be great too	14:20
jiboumans	[ACTION] ivoks to update server-lucid-cluster-stack with lucid (and alpha3) goals	14:21
MootBot	ACTION received: ivoks to update server-lucid-cluster-stack with lucid (and alpha3) goals	14:21
jiboumans	(before i forget)	14:21
nijaba`	sommer: ok, let's talk about it off meeting	14:21
jiboumans	sommer: would it be helpful to have a weekly agenda point in this meeting for us to give updates on big changes and/or for you to ask questions?	14:21
sommer	nijaba`: sounds good	14:21
sommer	jiboumans: possibly, but the last couple of meetings I've had to duck out early	14:22
jiboumans	sommer: we can move the topic forward if that's useful to you	14:22
jiboumans	we're here all week^Whour	14:22
sommer	I think I can keep up... just need to ask more questions when I fall behind	14:23
jiboumans	sommer: ok. if you change yoru mind, i'm happy to give it a dedicated slot. we really appreciate the work that goes into this doc and want to make it as painless as possible	14:24
jiboumans	anything else for the docs blueprint?	14:24
sommer	jiboumans: sounds great much thanks	14:24
jiboumans	sommer: np	14:24
jiboumans	alright, moving on:	14:24
jiboumans	soren, jdstrand, stgraber: server-lucid-contextualization	14:25
jiboumans	stgraber: it's currently not milestoned; are you still dedicated to getting this in for lucid?	14:25
stgraber	yep	14:25
jiboumans	great. what is left for you to do when soren/jdstrand finish there bugs/items?	14:26
stgraber	I'm sorry, I'm on the phone at the same time	14:26
jiboumans	stgraber: no worries, should we do papercuts first?	14:26
stgraber	just finished my call	14:27
stgraber	so, I have on my todolist to check the state of current libvirt in Lucid + the lxc tool	14:27
stgraber	I contacted the Debian maintainer for the lxc userspace and he told me he was going to update it to current upstream	14:27
soren	I remember there were some issues with upstart and containers.	14:27
stgraber	once it's done, I'll get that synced in Lucid and will try to get a MIR on that	14:28
jiboumans	stgraber: does that sound realistic before alpha3?	14:28
jiboumans	(feb 25th)	14:28
stgraber	yes, upstart, especially umount can cause some issues with containers. Last time I tried Lucid containers worked correctly at least	14:28
stgraber	otherwise, I'm getting quite familiar with mountall due to LTSP bugs I'm helping debug from time to time, so it shouldn't be that hard to make it work properly	14:28
stgraber	jiboumans: updated userspace + tested libvirt by then sounds perfectly realisitc	14:29
stgraber	*realistic	14:29
soren	stgraber: I thought the problems were more fundamental than that.	14:29
soren	stgraber: Such as upstart not dealing very well at all with not properly being pid 1.	14:29
jiboumans	stgraber: we'd also need to have the package in main by then, if i'm getting alpha3's milestone right (ttx, correct me if i'm wrong)	14:29
stgraber	soren: at least on OpenVZ I can start a Lucid container including upstart	14:29
soren	(as in, it did not inherit orphan processes inside containers)	14:30
stgraber	soren: it's PID 1 (inside the container), it's not when seen from the host	14:30
soren	stgraber: Precisely.	14:30
ttx	jiboumans: before featurefreeze, to be precise.	14:30
stgraber	jiboumans: I can file a MIR for it	14:30
Daviey	\o	14:30
stgraber	jiboumans: only depends for it is libc6	14:30
Daviey	apologies for being late, for some reason i thought it started in 30 mins	14:31
jiboumans	Daviey: asterisk next, stay tuned :)	14:31
stgraber	upstream is active, it's maintained in Debian and there's no known security issues, so it's going to be an easy one	14:31
jmdault	hello Daviey	14:31
Daviey	\o jmdault	14:31
jiboumans	stgraber: if you feel you can get all that done for alpha3, that'll be great	14:31
jiboumans	stgraber, soren, jdstrand, ttx: anything else that may be a redflag?	14:31
jdstrand	the one task I had is completed	14:31
soren	jiboumans: Not at the moment.	14:32
stgraber	jiboumans: I'll get that to a point where we can focus on bugfix after alpha3. So that probably won't be bugfree but at least all pieces will be there.	14:32
=== robbiew_ is now known as robbiew
jiboumans	stgraber: that's perfect	14:32
jdstrand	I might mention, it would be nice to get libvirt 0.7.5 in for lucid	14:32
stgraber	jiboumans: +1	14:32
kirkland	jdstrand: are you planning to do that merge?	14:32
stgraber	jdstrand: +1 I mean ;)	14:32
jdstrand	there is an issue there cause Debian decided to run libvirt as non-root using upstream's new methods	14:32
jiboumans	stgraber: could i ask you to update the blueprint to reflect the work items we just discussed? (upstreams, tests, mir, etc)	14:32
stgraber	jiboumans: sure	14:33
jdstrand	how they implemented that is a) contentious and b) will likely require a lot of testing to make sure it doesn't break	14:33
ttx	jiboumans: looks good to me, pending the work items list	14:33
jiboumans	[ACTION] stgraber to update work item list for server-lucid-contextualization with alpha3 items	14:33
MootBot	ACTION received: stgraber to update work item list for server-lucid-contextualization with alpha3 items	14:33
jdstrand	I was thinking I would do that merge, but disable that feature, since we have apparmor protections anyway, but it probably needs further discussion	14:34
jdstrand	I don't really have the resources to test it without disabling the feature	14:34
jiboumans	jdstrand: would that be part of this spec, or merely related?	14:34
jdstrand	jiboumans: I think related, unless stgraber really needs 0.7.5	14:35
jdstrand	and the non-root stuff is definitely non-lxc	14:35
jdstrand	it just complicates the merge and testing (eg what will happen to euca if libvirt is non-root?)	14:35
jdstrand	err... libvirt runs VMs as non-root	14:36
jdstrand	I don't have an answer to that question, or the resources to verify it all will work	14:36
stgraber	jdstrand: I had lxc to work with 0.7.2 though there was quite a lot of improvement in 0.7.4 (nothing in 0.7.5 itself though)	14:36
jiboumans	soren, ttx: opinions welcome here	14:36
kirkland	jdstrand: i like the idea of using your apparmor stuff, and running libvirt as root (as upstream upstream does)	14:36
kirkland	jdstrand: for Lucid, at least	14:36
soren	jdstrand: How does what Debian does differ from what Fedora does?	14:37
jdstrand	kirkland: that was my thought too-- we are protected, and I will be doing more work on the security driver anyway	14:37
kirkland	jdstrand: +1	14:37
jdstrand	soren: I don't know, but I imagine fedora will be moving to non-root	14:37
jdstrand	when, I can't say	14:37
soren	jdstrand: AFAIK, they've already done that.	14:37
kirkland	jdstrand: on a related note, i'm working on the qemu-kvm-0.12 merge, to be done shortly after Alpha2	14:38
ttx	I'd go for 0.7.5 with apparmor as well, lucid is no place to get experimental	14:38
jdstrand	soren: what are your thoughts on the non-root stuff?	14:38
soren	19:08 < danpb> unit3: yeah, but in Fedora, the qemu process itself runs as 'qemu' these days	14:39
soren	From #virt yesterday.	14:39
jdstrand	I'd like to be clear-- the apparmor driver would be there regardless, it is whether or not to risk the non-root bits too	14:39
jiboumans	ttx: agreed. the question is 'keep the current version or 0.7.5+apparmor' -- no other configuration is safe enough i think	14:39
jdstrand	the apparmor driver is upstreamed and in 0.7.5, and works fine	14:39
soren	The problem is we might end up running libvirt in a way noone else is running it.	14:39
ttx	slightly more costly (debian delta) to go 0.7.5+apparmor, but I guess lots of bugfixes	14:39
soren	...which is simply a /different/ kind of maintenance nightmare.	14:39
jiboumans	ok, then let me rephrase: what do we loes by staying with current version?	14:40
jdstrand	soren: well, we are already in that boat with enabling the apparmor driver	14:40
soren	jdstrand: True.	14:40
jdstrand	(I also field those bugs, btw)	14:40
ttx	jiboumans: stgraber might hate you	14:40
jdstrand	(as upstream and in ubuntu)	14:40
soren	jdstrand: The point of contention is the fiddling with device permissions and all that jazz, right?	14:40
ttx	jiboumans: + number? of high-impact bugs fixed between 0.7.2 and 0.7.5	14:41
jdstrand	soren: yes. it generally seems not the right thing to do, and most people I've talked to aren't keen on it	14:41
soren	jdstrand: Yeah, I absolutely hate it.	14:41
jdstrand	though, I've not talked to that terribly many people	14:41
ttx	jiboumans: bugs that you wouldn't want to ship an LTS with	14:41
soren	jdstrand: I don't predict it's going to be a lasting approach.	14:42
stgraber	ttx: +1 (except that I won't hate him, just will file a lot of bugs for you guys to fix ;))	14:42
soren	jdstrand: I'm cool with sticking with running kvm as root.	14:42
jiboumans	ttx: that makes 0.7.5+apparmor a desired target then	14:42
jdstrand	soren: well, it is easy enough to run it like it has always been run (ie as root), using the apparmor driver	14:42
soren	jdstrand: It's really much more sensible than the current alternative.	14:42
ttx	jiboumans: I don't know how much of our long libvirt list of bugs 0.7.5 fixed	14:42
jiboumans	ttx: ok fearless techlead, propose a plan :)	14:43
jdstrand	in that case, I will do the 0.7.5, and leave out the non-root bits. if someone else wants to flip that on later, they can do that	14:43
soren	jdstrand: Sounds good to me.	14:43
jdstrand	s/0.7.5/0.7.5 merge/	14:43
ttx	jiboumans: knowing that unknown would help choosing the right solution	14:43
ttx	jiboumans: my plan would be to follow the fearless jdstrand	14:44
soren	oh.	14:44
jdstrand	and I want it clear-- please don't disable the apparmor driver if testing non-root-- we still want it for guest isolation and host protection	14:44
soren	Er... I would not even consider sticking with 0.7.2.	14:44
jiboumans	ttx: fair enough	14:44
ttx	soren: thanks for your support	14:44
soren	I completely missed that suggestion.	14:44
jdstrand	it runs as non-root in Debian, but all as the same user (ie no guest isolation)	14:44
ttx	soren: <jiboumans> ok, then let me rephrase: what do we loes by staying with current version?	14:45
jdstrand	plus, I'd hate for a rogue guest to have even non-root privs on my host machine	14:45
jiboumans	jdstrand: where can we see the progress on this? i'm expecting this to impact UEC as well after all	14:45
soren	Sticking with old, unsupported versions of core virtualisation stuff is no fun at all (cough kvm-62 in hardy cough).	14:45
jdstrand	jiboumans: 0.7.5 is still in unstable and not migrated to testing	14:45
jdstrand	jiboumans: so sometime after that, plus there is a blueprint for the apparmor/libvirt dev work I am doing	14:46
soren	jdstrand: There's plenty of precendence for being ahead of Debian testing in Ubuntu for libvirt. Even ahead of Debian experimental at times.	14:46
* jdstrand goes to get it		14:46
soren	And precedence.	14:46
jdstrand	jiboumans: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-lucid-libvirt-apparmor-devel	14:46
jdstrand	I'll add a new item for 0.7.5	14:47
jiboumans	jdstrand: thanks. kirkland/ttx this will affect you for UEC. please keep an eye on it and stay in touch with jdstrand	14:47
kirkland	jiboumans: sure thing	14:47
ttx	ack	14:47
jiboumans	stgraber, soren, jdstrand: anything more on the containers spec?	14:47
soren	Not at the moment.	14:48
stgraber	not from me, I updated the blueprint with the new items for alpha-3	14:48
jiboumans	stgraber++ thanks	14:48
jiboumans	ok, next topic: server-lucid-asterisk-integration (dyfet, Daviey)	14:48
jmdault	and jmdault ...	14:48
jmdault	;-)	14:48
dyfet	yes	14:48
jiboumans	jmdault: appologies :)	14:48
jiboumans	first order of business: who's the contact for this spec?	14:48
Daviey	\i	14:48
jiboumans	or drafter? or the person i'll be gently but firmly shaking in this meeting?	14:49
jmdault	jiboumans: you can shake me	14:49
dyfet	lol	14:49
jiboumans	jmdault: thanks for volunteering :)	14:49
dyfet	That works for me also!	14:49
jmdault	good	14:49
jiboumans	jmdault: this spec has been lingering a bit; are you still commited to this for lucid?	14:49
jmdault	jiboumans: yes, definitely	14:50
Daviey	I'm very keen to try and keep the packages from Debian as pristine as possible, and work with Debian's pkg-voip closer.	14:50
dyfet	I concur	14:50
jiboumans	excellent. You've all been doing this for a while, so you know what parts need to be done by alpha3	14:50
jmdault	me too	14:50
zul	are you guys looking to get asterisk in main?	14:51
jmdault	Asterisk 1.6.2 is officially released now	14:51
jiboumans	could i ask you to update the spec accordingly and prefix the people doing the tasks so pitti's magic tool picks it up?	14:51
jmdault	zul: not sure about main... we need to handle security updates, and that's gonna be a lot of work	14:51
jiboumans	mathiaz: wasn't asterisk on your promotion/demotion list?	14:52
Daviey	zul: not at present.	14:52
mathiaz	jiboumans: nope	14:52
mathiaz	jiboumans: I don't think so	14:52
jiboumans	mathiaz: ok, i probably misremembered then :)	14:52
zul	jiboumans: it was on my list but it got rejected	14:52
mathiaz	jiboumans: mainly for security reasons - jdstrand ^^?	14:52
zul	security reasons and lack of hardware for testing	14:53
Daviey	it did have a MIR	14:53
jiboumans	[ACTION] jmdault to update server-lucid-asterisk-integration blueprint with alpha3 & post-alpha3 workitems and change syntax to match Pitti's workitems howto (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto)	14:54
MootBot	ACTION received: jmdault to update server-lucid-asterisk-integration blueprint with alpha3 & post-alpha3 workitems and change syntax to match Pitti's workitems howto (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto)	14:54
jmdault	Daviey: I don't see you're subscribed to ubuntu-voip mailing list?	14:54
jmdault	we need some communication	14:54
Daviey	jmdault: i should be! I set it up	14:54
Daviey	jmdault: there is now #ubuntu-voip, and i somehow feel real time communication might help.	14:55
jiboumans	ok, i think we're aligned on the work that needs to be done. ttx: any concerns on this one?	14:55
zul	you should use asterisk to talk to each other :)	14:55
erichammond	Tangentially related: I built custom, private Karmic AMIs for a client who is running Asterisk on EC2. He has timing problems with the 2.6.27 kernel and we are hoping that the 2.6.31 kernel will work better. The kernel team has offered to build 250Hz and 1000Hz EC2 kernels for testing if the default 100Hz still doesn't work under Karmic with 2.6.31.	14:56
jiboumans	zul++ # +7 smartypants points	14:56
jdstrand	the security issues regarding asterisk are that there are many vulnerabilities	14:56
ttx	jiboumans: not at this point	14:56
Daviey	erichammond: erichammond Xen and asterisk have never played well.	14:56
jiboumans	alright, anything more on the asterisk spec?	14:56
jdstrand	there hasn't been a community around asterisk to fix what we have in Ubuntu now	14:56
Daviey	i built different kernels with different clock speeds and it did help, but not perfect.	14:56
smoser	erichammond, we've not heard back on that ?	14:56
erichammond	Davley: People are running Asterisk well under EC2 with an old 1000Hz kernel.	14:57
smoser	iirc that was some end of november-ish, right?	14:57
jdstrand	adding asterisk as a supported package is not recommended-- but this was all discussed at UDS, is this up for discussion again?	14:57
jiboumans	jdstrand: nope	14:57
erichammond	smoser: The Karmic AMIs just got built as it took me a while to sort out all the vmbuilder issues.	14:57
jiboumans	gents, i'm going to have to ask you to take this to #ubuntu-voip :)	14:57
jmdault	yes, come to #ubuntu-voip	14:57
smoser	oh. sorry. not meaning to call you out :)	14:58
jmdault	we need some traffic	14:58
dyfet	yep	14:58
jiboumans	our agenda is rather full and we have to move on i'm afraid	14:58
jiboumans	so, next topic: server-lucid-papercuts (ttx)	14:58
smoser	thought we were just waiting for someone else to test.	14:58
ttx	ok, so this is the spec following the UDS discussion we had on Server usability papercuts	14:58
ttx	To be successful, it needs to be a global effort shared between all Ubuntu Server team members	14:58
ttx	That's why I wanted to discuss the details of the project implementation before going forward	14:58
ttx	(not sure there is enough time in this meeting to do so, stop me if needed)	14:58
ttx	The blueprint whiteboards shows several subjects that we could discuss in January team meetings	14:58
ttx	Starting today with discussing the best way to nominate a bug as a papercut	14:59
ttx	jiboumans: want to move that to next week ?	14:59
jiboumans	ttx: given the time constraints and us being behind on some alpha2 work, yeah	14:59
jiboumans	ttx: i'd urge everyone to give this some thought though (perhaps you can send a mail to that extent) so we're prepared next week	14:59
ttx	ok. Let's discuss papercut nomination mechanism next week then	14:59
ttx	action me on that	15:00
jiboumans	[ACTION] ttx to send background mail on papercuts project for next weeks discussion	15:00
MootBot	ACTION received: ttx to send background mail on papercuts project for next weeks discussion	15:00
jiboumans	see how fast i type? :)	15:00
ttx	we share a common brain	15:00
zul	thats scarey	15:00
jiboumans	2 men 1 brain... sounds like a bad internet movie	15:00
jiboumans	ok, next:	15:00
jiboumans	[TOPIC] blueprint status check	15:00
MootBot	New Topic: blueprint status check	15:00
jiboumans	most seem well on track, so slightly different format:	15:01
jiboumans	i'd liek to discuss 3 in particular, and then a quick round table	15:01
jiboumans	mathiaz: server-lucid-uec-testing12/0/13 52%	15:01
jiboumans	are we still on track for alpha2? halfway complete dwith a few days development time left	15:01
mathiaz	jiboumans: on track IMO	15:01
mathiaz	jiboumans: three items are about alpha2 testing	15:02
mathiaz	jiboumans: two others are to talk with upstream	15:02
jiboumans	mathiaz: if you are confident, so am i.	15:02
mathiaz	jiboumans: and the last ones require a bit more hardware for testing	15:03
jiboumans	mathiaz: IS assured me we can get the hardware at alpha2. you & ttx need to look over the details though (see the rt mail that landed in yoru box today)	15:03
jiboumans	ttx: any opinions on taht yet? i saw cjwatson gave some tips	15:03
ttx	jiboumans: that sounds very promising	15:04
mathiaz	jiboumans: ok	15:04
ttx	jiboumans: I'm glued into an upstart issue, it's next on my totest list	15:04
mathiaz	jiboumans: I need to catch up on the RT thread (I don't receive all the emails of it apparently)	15:04
ttx	jiboumans: I'd revert my opinion now to "probably not needed anymore"	15:04
mathiaz	jiboumans: I know how to automate iso testing though	15:05
ttx	mathiaz: talk to you about it later today	15:05
mathiaz	ttx: ok	15:05
jiboumans	ttx, mathiaz: stick your heads together and make a call :)	15:05
jiboumans	next spec:there's also this spec: server-lucid-ec2-config 8/0/2 20%	15:05
jiboumans	zul, mathiaz: most of the work rests with you guys now and i know you've taken it over recently	15:06
mathiaz	jiboumans: you == zul^^ ?	15:06
zul	jiboumans: i showed smoser my first cut yesterday i think im on track https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/ec2-init/ec2-init-config	15:06
smoser	i think he's on track.	15:06
jiboumans	mathiaz: you have the parser writing on your plate: [mathiaz] write initial config parser : TODO	15:07
jiboumans	zul's doing the actual configs	15:07
mathiaz	jiboumans: hm - well - there isn't any parser to be written :)	15:07
mathiaz	jiboumans: the configuration file is in yaml	15:07
smoser	hopefully be tomorrow morning US/Eastern or end of day tomorrow we can have a combined branch with at least packaging	15:07
jiboumans	where's the code that grabs the file & DTRT?	15:08
mathiaz	jiboumans: boothooks	15:08
jiboumans	or is that all boothooks?	15:08
smoser	DTRT?	15:08
jiboumans	'does the right thing'	15:08
* jiboumans hands smoser the interwebz		15:09
mathiaz	jiboumans: right - boothooks grabs the user-data, locally copies the yaml configuration and then fires an cloud-config upstart event	15:09
smoser	ah. that is boothooks	15:09
smoser	bah to you and your lmgtfy, jiboumans :)	15:09
jiboumans	ok, fair enough. mathiaz could you update the blueprint then please/ :)	15:09
mathiaz	jiboumans: relevant upstart jobs start on cloud-config and do whatever they want with the configuration file	15:09
smoser	so boot hooks gets user data, rips out user config, puts that in a file and emits an upstart job with CFG_FILE=path-to-that-file	15:09
jiboumans	is there no mileage in ever running this outside upstart?	15:10
smoser	well, it could. the upstart job just runs something else.	15:10
smoser	that something else coudl be run just as easily at other times.	15:10
smoser	but for now i think we're interested in at early-cloud-boot	15:11
jiboumans	smoser: i'll leave that for a design decision then while you're writing the code :)	15:11
smoser	yeah.	15:11
smoser	we ready to move to that blueprint then :)	15:11
jiboumans	server-lucid-ec2-boothooks10/0/323%High	15:11
jiboumans	smoser: are you still on the EC2 image issue, or moved to this spec now?	15:12
smoser	i am actually feeling much more confident of it now than i was before.	15:12
smoser	the ec2 image issue has been identified. bug 503212	15:12
ubottu	Launchpad bug 503212 in mountall "mountall crashed with SIGSEGV in main() without initramfs" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503212	15:12
smoser	short summary, mountall doesn't work without a ramdisk, our ec2-images dont have ramdisks.	15:13
jiboumans	smoser: that sounds like cloud-krd is stalled pending that bug, correct?	15:13
smoser	well, yeah, but i have to assume that it will be fixed. i sent mail to Keybuk, but i think he must be out atm	15:13
jiboumans	fair enough. so, boothooks... on track now?	15:14
smoser	basically cloud-krd is done. everything is functional (or at least was functional) in ec2	15:14
smoser	much closer to on track. i do feel more confident now	15:14
jiboumans	smoser: please stay in touch wtih ttx about this	15:14
jiboumans	anything to add to this spec?	15:15
smoser	no. thanks to everyone who has helped and offered to help, though	15:15
jiboumans	excellent	15:15
jiboumans	everyone++ indeed	15:15
jiboumans	quick round table:	15:15
jiboumans	kirkland: any blockers or risks for your blueprints regarding alpha2?	15:16
kirkland	jiboumans: i don't think so	15:16
jiboumans	mathiaz: same question ^	15:16
mathiaz	jiboumans: I don't think so	15:16
jiboumans	smoser: i think we covered yours, right?	15:17
smoser	y	15:17
jiboumans	ttx: ^	15:17
ttx	jiboumans: I don't think so	15:17
smoser	y as in yes	15:17
jiboumans	zul: ^	15:17
zul	jiboumans: MIR team taking the time to review the MIR reports	15:17
jiboumans	zul: when do we need to have those back by?	15:17
zul	jiboumans: soon ill bug kees again today, i havent been able to talk to doko yet	15:18
jiboumans	zul: ok, flag it with me if you dont have an answer by thursday end of business	15:18
zul	ok	15:18
jiboumans	[TOPIC] assigned bugs: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html	15:19
MootBot	New Topic: assigned bugs: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html	15:19
jiboumans	remind me who runs through this again usually :)	15:19
zul	ttx	15:19
ttx	zul: doh	15:19
* jiboumans watches the very slick push-infront-of-the-train action		15:20
ttx	Anyone has anything blocking to report ?	15:20
zul	nope	15:20
mathiaz	zope	15:20
ttx	Dustin, Chuck: all bugs assigned to you represent current or near-future work ?	15:20
kirkland	ttx: erg, yeah, near-ish future	15:20
zul	yeah near-ish future	15:21
kirkland	ttx: there's a few i'm on the tip of solving, uploading	15:21
ttx	ok	15:21
ttx	jiboumans: done	15:21
jiboumans	[TOPIC] weekly Q&A with QA	15:21
MootBot	New Topic: weekly Q&A with QA	15:21
jiboumans	badumtish	15:21
jiboumans	soren?	15:21
soren	Hahah.	15:21
soren	Uh, yeah.	15:21
soren	Since last time, I've set up nightly rebuilds of a set of server packages.	15:22
soren	These are packages that already have test suites run at build time, but since stuff in their dependency tree might cause breakage, we need to run them periodically to detect regressions.	15:23
soren	..so every night, I grab the current version of these packages and push them to a ppa.	15:23
soren	If they fail to build, I get an e-mail.	15:23
soren	Ideally, I would set something up to turn those e-mails into bug reports, but that's work to be done.	15:23
zul	is it possible to get a broader range of people to email?	15:24
soren	The current list of packages is:	15:24
soren	libvirt	15:24
soren	postgresql-8.3	15:24
soren	postgresql-8.4	15:24
soren	mysql-dfsg-5.0	15:24
soren	mysql-dfsg-5.1	15:24
soren	openldap	15:24
soren	php5	15:24
mathiaz	soren: using a team PPA so that others can get the emails as well if wanted?	15:24
soren	I'm sure I've missed some, so if you guys can think of anything server related that takes care to run its test suite at build time (and fails if the test suite fails), please let me know.	15:24
mathiaz	soren: there is dovecot	15:25
mathiaz	soren: it has a test suite, but not in the package	15:25
mathiaz	soren: it's in a different upstream hg repository	15:25
jiboumans	btw, this is the related spec: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-lucid-automated-server-testing	15:25
zul	apache has an external testsuite but you have to fiddle with the package	15:25
soren	mathiaz: Right, so it doesn't really apply here.	15:25
mathiaz	soren: upstream dovecot wiki has an explanation	15:25
soren	Those are separate work items.	15:25
soren	mathiaz: Yes, I've seen it.	15:25
mathiaz	soren: right	15:26
jiboumans	alright, sounds like a good action point	15:26
soren	I intend to package it at some point and get it to run periodically.	15:26
soren	...I just haven't gotten round to that yet.	15:26
kirkland	soren: i should have a qemu-kvm-0.12 merge ready soon ... any chance there will be a testing ringer i can put it through before unleashing it on people?	15:26
jiboumans	[ACTION] Soren to sollicit packages that lend them selves well to nightly builds	15:26
MootBot	ACTION received: Soren to sollicit packages that lend them selves well to nightly builds	15:26
soren	kirkland: We could, but I don't think my current set of tests that use kvm will exercise it much more than what you get to do on a daily basis of just using it normally.	15:27
kirkland	soren: gotcha	15:28
jiboumans	soren: anything else to report from QA?	15:28
soren	I'm happy to test it in my daily work, though.	15:28
soren	jiboumans: Not at the moment, no. I expect to have a bunch of stuff for next week (a lot of my stuff is targeted for alpha-2).	15:28
jiboumans	soren: we look forward to next weeks update then	15:28
jiboumans	any questions for soren/QA?	15:28
mathiaz	soren: what's the status of the Server QA position?	15:29
soren	mathiaz: I don't know if I have the full picture, but as far as I know, there's no-one in the pipeline right now, so it'll probably be a while.	15:29
soren	But like in every other context, I somehow always manage to be the last person to know anything :)	15:30
zul	no that would be me ;)	15:31
soren	See? I didn't even know that.	15:32
jiboumans	cute :) any other questions?	15:32
erichammond	I don't use the new us-west-1 region in EC2 much yet, but bug 494185 makes the official Ubuntu AMIs broken there, and users have complained. This seems like a pretty high priority to me. It could either be fixed by publishing updated AMIs (bug 503649) or by having IT modify the firewall on the us-east-1 apt mirror to allow external access in the short term (very low cost).	15:32
ubottu	Launchpad bug 494185 in ec2-init "ec2-init selects us-east-1 mirror when running in us-west-1 region" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494185	15:32
ubottu	Launchpad bug 503649 in ubuntu "Release updated official Ubuntu EC2 AMIs for Karmic, Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503649	15:32
smoser	i think we shoudl push new images there.	15:34
smoser	that will solve your other bvug, eric, for updated instances of karmic for speed.	15:34
kirkland	jiboumans: one from me ... i uploaded a new merge of euca2ools yesterday, the first sync with upstream since Oct	15:34
kirkland	jiboumans: i'd like to request some testing ;-)	15:34
smoser	i did open a ticket service ticket on ipening up the us-east mirror to outside, but nothing on that.	15:35
kirkland	just in general, from anyone doing UEC/EC2 ish stuff	15:35
jiboumans	this is particularly for the QA team :)	15:35
kirkland	jiboumans: yeah, them too :-)	15:35
jiboumans	soren: can you/QA help with either of those issues?	15:35
soren	Uh..	15:36
* soren seems to be missing something		15:36
jiboumans	'no' is an acceptable answer :)	15:36
soren	Sorry, how did QA get wound up in this? :)	15:36
jiboumans	right, 'no' it is	15:37
soren	Works for me :)	15:37
jiboumans	[ACTION] smoser to investigate publishing new AMIs	15:37
MootBot	ACTION received: smoser to investigate publishing new AMIs	15:37
jiboumans	[TOPIC] Q&A with the kernel team (jjohansen)	15:37
MootBot	New Topic: Q&A with the kernel team (jjohansen)	15:37
jiboumans	jjohansen: so sorry to keep you waiting	15:37
jjohansen	np	15:37
smoser	erichammond, coudl you do me a favor and snif test a recent -testing build ?	15:37
mathiaz	kirkland: I'll test run the latest euca2ools today	15:37
jiboumans	jjohansen: i notice one open work item for you: fix kernel configs such that uec requires no ramdisk (bug 494565)	15:37
ubottu	Launchpad bug 494565 in linux "support ramdiskless boot for relavant kvm drive interfaces in -virtual" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494565	15:37
mathiaz	kirkland: while doing some more UEC testing	15:37
erichammond	smoser: sure thing.	15:38
erichammond	kirkland: Will euca2ools work with my EC2 account that starts with a zero now?	15:38
jjohansen	jiboumans: yeah, I am behind on that one, I am going to see what I can get done on that today and tomorrow	15:38
jiboumans	jjohansen: it's part of the alpha2 target; you see any risk of it not being done by then?	15:38
jjohansen	yeah it is in danger for alpha2 as kernel changes have deadline of friday	15:39
kirkland	erichammond: according to the changelog, yes	15:39
kirkland	erichammond: and commit history	15:39
jiboumans	smoser: what's the impact on cloud-krd if this doesn't happen?	15:39
kirkland	erichammond: it would be great if you could confirm, or reopen that bug if not	15:39
smoser	well, our uec images will just need to have a ramdisk	15:39
smoser	which they do now	15:39
jiboumans	right, so it would spill over to alpha3	15:40
jiboumans	jjohansen: we're still allowed to make changes like this for alpha3, yes?	15:40
smoser	if ever it were fixed i just have put back in a change that removes them (they didn't have a ramdisk for a while)	15:40
jjohansen	jiboumans: yes it should be good, its really just some config changes	15:41
ttx	Two bugs on my plate for the kernel team: bug 499785 and bug 499491. Both are fix committed, what's the ETA for archive ?	15:41
ubottu	Launchpad bug 499785 in linux "nic-usb-modules should include asix" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499785	15:41
ubottu	Launchpad bug 499491 in linux "tun module no longer automatically available (was: Euca 1.6.2 fails to boot an instance)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499491	15:41
jiboumans	smoser: ok, keep an eye on this then and adjust the blueprint accordingly please	15:41
jjohansen	ttx: well my guess would be the kernel will be uploaded monday or tuesday	15:42
ttx	jjohansen: ack	15:42
jjohansen	just depending if something critical doesn't make friday	15:42
jiboumans	any other questions for the kernel team?	15:43
jiboumans	jjohansen: anything else we need to be aware of?	15:43
jjohansen	not that I can think of	15:43
jjohansen	wait	15:44
jjohansen	there is an EC2 kernel update coming	15:44
jjohansen	but that should break anything, I point smoser at the test kernels today	15:44
jiboumans	i so hope you meant 'should not' ;)	15:44
jjohansen	yeah :)	15:45
jiboumans	alright, thanks for letting us know ;)	15:45
jiboumans	[TOPIC] weekly SRU review (mathiaz)	15:45
MootBot	New Topic: weekly SRU review (mathiaz)	15:45
mathiaz	one bug nominated for jaunty	15:46
mathiaz	bug 117736	15:46
ubottu	Launchpad bug 117736 in libpam-mount "pam_mount unable to unmount needs root priv" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117736	15:46
* kirkland shudders at pam_mount		15:46
mathiaz	one bug nominated for karmic: bug 379329	15:46
ubottu	Launchpad bug 379329 in openssh "CVE-2008-5161: OpenSSH CBC plaintext recovery" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379329	15:46
mathiaz	Are these two bus SRU worth?	15:46
ttx	the second one should be handled by security	15:47
ttx	if it's worth it, they will do it	15:47
kirkland	mathiaz: i spent about a week working with the pam_mount source code, when I was doing the Encrypted Private dir stuff way back	15:47
kirkland	mathiaz: it was really bad, and so I wrote pam_ecryptfs instead	15:47
kirkland	mathiaz: i don't know about that bug, but pam_mount is a mess	15:48
mathiaz	ttx: ok - I'll leave bug 379329 alone then	15:48
ubottu	Launchpad bug 379329 in openssh "CVE-2008-5161: OpenSSH CBC plaintext recovery" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379329	15:48
mathiaz	jdstrand: ^^	15:48
jdstrand	we are aware of the bug	15:48
jdstrand	thanks	15:48
mathiaz	ok - I'll decline bug 117736	15:49
ubottu	Launchpad bug 117736 in libpam-mount "pam_mount unable to unmount needs root priv" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117736	15:49
ScottK	Speaking of SRU review, thanks to everyone who helped out on the Spamassassin update over the weekend.	15:50
mathiaz	http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html	15:50
MootBot	LINK received: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html	15:50
mathiaz	two bugs fixed last week ?! ?	15:50
mathiaz	anything worth SRU?	15:50
zul	478973 maybe...we need to find the patch for it though	15:51
mathiaz	zul: could you nominate/accept the bug then?	15:51
zul	mathiaz: sure	15:52
mathiaz	http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html	15:52
MootBot	LINK received: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html	15:52
mathiaz	zul: ^^ any progress on the bug there?	15:52
zul	no	15:52
ScottK	mathiaz: Why does the spamassassin bug not show up there?	15:52
mathiaz	ScottK: there == which list?	15:53
mathiaz	and that's all for the SRU review	15:53
ScottK	The bugs fixed list.	15:53
jiboumans	[TOPIC] open discussion	15:54
MootBot	New Topic: open discussion	15:54
jiboumans	anythign left to be said afte 2 hours? :)	15:54
mathiaz	ScottK: because lp ~ubuntu-server is not a bug contact for spamassassin	15:54
* ttx wakes up		15:54
ScottK	mathiaz: I'd think it should be.	15:54
* kirkland looks forward to writing 2 hours of meeting minutes :-)		15:54
* zul cleans up his eyes		15:54
ttx	jiboumans: please, no	15:54
ScottK	Perl needs merged.	15:54
jiboumans	[TOPIC] next meeting	15:54
MootBot	New Topic: next meeting	15:54
nijaba`	specially since it is in main now; right?	15:55
ScottK	Yep	15:55
ScottK	Probably clamav and amavisd-new too if they aren't	15:55
zul	they are	15:55
nijaba`	double yep	15:55
zul	amavisd-new is at least	15:55
ScottK	Does somebody get an action to fix that?	15:55
nijaba`	mathiaz: ?? ^	15:55
mathiaz	done	15:56
jiboumans	next week; same bat time, same bat channel. hopefully only 1 hour.	15:56
jiboumans	thanks for your patience people	15:56
jiboumans	#endmeeting	15:56
MootBot	Meeting finished at 09:56.	15:56
kirkland	ScottK: looks like it is already https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+packagebugs	15:57
ScottK	kirkland: Then back to the original question, how come the bug wasn't on the list?	15:58
kirkland	ScottK: good q	15:58
ScottK	If I'm going to spend a Sunday getting Spamassassin fixed on 5 releases, I'd like it to at least show up as done	15:59
mathiaz	ScottK: I just added spamassassin and clamav	16:00
ScottK	Thanks.	16:00
ev	hi	16:00
* slangasek waves		16:00
nijaba`	mathiaz: now that we have a script that list le server package in main, could we use it on a regular basis to automatically update lp?	16:00
tremolux	hey folks	16:01
james_w	hi	16:01
barry	howdy	16:02
doko_	hi	16:02
mvo	hi	16:03
ev	#startmeeting	16:03
MootBot	Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is ev.	16:03
MootBot	Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]	16:03
ev	[TOPIC] lightning round	16:04
MootBot	New Topic: lightning round	16:04
ev	barry: care to start us off?	16:04
barry	sure! ...	16:04
cjwatson	sorry I'm late, my network has been acting up	16:05
barry	it was a short week because of the holidays. i fixed bug 494704 and worked on some pycon 2010 stuff. today i plan on trying my hand at packaging a python module that isn't in uni and catching up with various folks about next steps	16:05
ubottu	Launchpad bug 494704 in python-soaplib "Ubuntu Karmic: ImportError: No module named soaplib (after installing python-soaplib)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494704	16:05
barry	eot	16:05
ev	thanks barry	16:06
ev	cjwatson?	16:06
cjwatson	done: good chunk of foundations-lucid-ubiquity-partitioner-optimisation, some tweaks to various packages needed for server eucalyptus work, quite a bit of time off doing chromeos work	16:06
cjwatson	todo: want to try to get foundations-lucid-reliable-device-id-in-grub out of the way now that upstream has fixed it to not really need device.map in most cases	16:06
cjwatson	blocked: foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update relies on DX work that isn't done yet; have discussed with dbarth	16:06
ev	cool, thanks cjwatson	16:07
ev	tremolux?	16:07
tremolux	'm continuing to do some work on software center	16:07
tremolux	I've uploaded some code and one bug fix that Michael has merged	16:07
tremolux	I'm getting going on bug triage and fixing	16:07
tremolux	Oh, and I've got Lean training in Lexington tomorrow and Fri	16:07
ev	thanks tremolux	16:07
ev	james_w: around?	16:07
james_w	hi	16:07
ev	hello :)	16:08
ev	oh, I missed your wave before	16:08
ev	apologies	16:08
james_w	I've been working on the importer, I tracked down the bug that was killing codehosting, and I'm now getting all the branches back up to date	16:08
slangasek	\o/	16:08
ev	awesome	16:09
ev	thanks	16:09
james_w	todo: the latter of those parts, it's worked through the backlog, but there are a bunch of failures to triage	16:09
ev	whoops, I'm moving a bit too quick	16:09
ev	sorry	16:09
james_w	blocked: nothing. also, I'm out of the country for the next few weeks.	16:09
james_w	so you'll find me at odd hours, so mail may be best to track me down if desired	16:09
james_w	thanks	16:09
ev	thanks james_w	16:10
ev	doko__?	16:10
doko__	done: most gcc-4.4 ARM updates done, minor gdb update, eglibc-2.11 testing and upgrade, gcc-4.5 prepared for testing, some packaging of new upstream versions over the holidys	16:10
doko__	next week: gcc-4.5 testing, openjdk-6 update, prepare JCK testing with sbeattie, outstanding merges	16:10
doko__	blocked: can't think of anything	16:10
ev	doko__: cool, thanks	16:12
ev	mvo: ?	16:12
doko__	stunning silcene?	16:12
ev	:)	16:12
mvo	software-center: subcategory work, ratings&reviews client side work (needs LP server side, but some client side work can already be done)	16:12
mvo	maintaince-timeframe: submited LP soyuz branch for review (spec blocked until that is done)	16:12
mvo	"fun" with nvidia (#494627)	16:12
mvo	glanced over the upgrade tester results at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/ (quite some failures)	16:12
ev	slangasek?	16:14
ev	thanks mvo	16:14
slangasek	working this week on getting our 4th and final hardy point release rolling	16:14
slangasek	be prepared to receive calls for help testing :)	16:15
slangasek	(eot)	16:15
ev	thanks slangasek	16:15
ev	started to land my branches on ubiquity. Working with the X team to split i18n data out of xkb-data in support of console-setup changes. Just finished moving from gtkcomboboxes to gtkcomboentrys, to allow for type to select. Looking into decoupling bulletproofx from gdm.	16:16
ev	[TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting	16:16
MootBot	New Topic: Outstanding actions from last meeting	16:16
ev	there weren't any :)	16:16
=== nijaba` is now known as nijaba
ev	[TOPIC] milestoned bugs	16:17
MootBot	New Topic: milestoned bugs	16:17
ev	https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=1326	16:17
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
ev	whoops, that's quite wrong, isn't it	16:17
slangasek	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone=21444 :)	16:18
ev	thanks	16:18
ev	anyone have any that'd they would like to raise?	16:19
ev	okay, moving on	16:20
ev	[TOPIC] sponsorship queue	16:20
MootBot	New Topic: sponsorship queue	16:21
ev	I nearly had one, which is horrendous	16:21
ev	I'll add that to the new years resolutions list	16:22
cjwatson	I'll go do some before leaving today, as penance	16:22
ev	:)	16:22
ev	[TOPIC] Any business from activity reports	16:23
MootBot	New Topic: Any business from activity reports	16:23
ev	there weren't any items in the emails I received. Last chance to raise something.	16:23
ev	Please send in your activity report if you haven't already done so	16:23
ev	[TOPIC] Good news	16:26
MootBot	New Topic: Good news	16:26
ev	I'm seeing Ubuntu in a lot of pictures coming from CES.	16:26
ev	anyone else?	16:27
ev	right, AOB?	16:28
james_w	nothing from me	16:28
slangasek	nothing here	16:28
mvo	nothing from me	16:29
barry	nope	16:29
ev	okay, thanks everyone	16:29
ev	#endmeeting	16:29
MootBot	Meeting finished at 10:29.	16:29
slangasek	thanks!	16:30
mvo	thanks	16:30
james_w	thanks	16:31
ev	oh, damn	16:32
ev	who wants to chair the next meeting?	16:32
ev	I'd assign it to Scott for not showing up, but he's already done it recently.	16:32
james_w	it's all gone strangely silent :-)	16:47
highvoltage	heh	16:50
marjo_	#startmeeting QA Team	17:00
MootBot	Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is marjo_.	17:00
MootBot	Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]	17:00
* marjo_ waves		17:02
marjo_	Agenda:	17:02
marjo_	* SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)	17:02
marjo_	* Bugday highlights -- pedro	17:02
marjo_	*	17:02
marjo_	Future of Ubuntu QA Launchpad team (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa) -- ara	17:02
marjo_	* Calls for testing: mailing list or "Contact This Team" -- ara	17:02
soren	o/	17:02
cr3	hi folks	17:02
* fader_ waves.		17:02
pedro_	hola!	17:02
davmor2	hello	17:02
sbeattie	Happy new year, everyone!	17:02
bdmurray	hi	17:03
* charlie-tca seems to have made it, too		17:03
kamusin	hey!	17:03
marjo_	ara is not available, so we'll defer the last two agenda items until next week	17:03
marjo_	Happy New Year to all!	17:03
pedro_	hello charlie-tca! welcome back	17:03
charlie-tca	thanks	17:03
charlie-tca	will try to be around again.	17:03
marjo_	[TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)	17:04
MootBot	New Topic: SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)	17:04
sbeattie	SRU activity over the holidays was slow, but before and after was busy...	17:04
sbeattie	SRU Activity Report for the last 3 weeks (since 2009-12-16):	17:05
sbeattie	* karmic: 25 new packages in -proposed, and 27 packages pushed to -updates	17:05
sbeattie	* jaunty: 6 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, postgresql-8.3, xorg-server, osm-gps-map, spamassassin, tzdata) and 5 packages pushed to -updates (openafs, xvidcap, zabbix, spamassassin, tzdata)	17:05
sbeattie	* intrepid: 5 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, postgresql-8.3, smart, spamassassin, tzdata) and 2 package pushed to -updates (spamassassin, tzdata)	17:05
sbeattie	* hardy: 3 new packages in -proposed (postgresql-8.3, spamassassin, tzdata) and 3 packages pushed to -updates (alpine, spamassassin, tzdata)	17:05
sbeattie	* dapper: 2 new packages in -proposed (postgresql-8.1, langpack-locales) and 1 package pushed to -updates (langpack-locales)	17:05
sbeattie	Thanks to Mitch Towner, Sennaista, VPablo, Brad Peters, Bernhard Schmidt, Tomasz Czapiewski, Sami Nieminen, Imre Gergely, Ante Karamatić, Jonathan Marsden, Philipp Edelmann, Russell John, Dan McCombs, Thomas Bruckmaier, Drew Fisher, Swâmi Petaramesh, Tomas Rudén, Sergey Yanovich, Piotr Morgwai Kotarb, Xavier Gnata, Michele Mordenti, Daniel Nurmi, Lamer, and Rainer Schöpf for testing proposed fixes.	17:05
sbeattie	That's all I've got.	17:06
marjo_	thx to all who helped out!	17:06
marjo_	thx sbeattie	17:06
marjo_	[TOPIC] Bugday highlights -- pedro	17:07
MootBot	New Topic: Bugday highlights -- pedro	17:07
pedro_	Last Bug day we organized was last year, the target was Bugs without a package	17:07
pedro_	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20091217	17:07
pedro_	we had a nice participation from the community, as said on the previous meeting, that target is one of the easiest one	17:08
pedro_	so thanks a lot to kamusin, qense, yofel, marcosvanetta, davidboy, shankao, micahg and bdmurray for their participation	17:08
marjo_	pedro_ : what do you mean by "that target is one of the easiest one"?	17:08
pedro_	like if you want to start doing triage, that's one of the easy targets we recommend to new people	17:09
marjo_	ah ok, thx	17:09
marjo_	thx to all who participated!	17:10
pedro_	we are not going to have bug day this week (too much to lately) , however, we're looking targets for the next week	17:10
marjo_	ok	17:10
pedro_	so if you have something in mind, drop the idea at -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning	17:11
bdmurray	pedro_: I made a list of packages with lots of apport crashes if that might be interesting	17:11
pedro_	bdmurray, sure! sounds like a good one	17:11
bdmurray	like system-config-printer has 94	17:12
pedro_	is that list available somewhere?	17:12
bdmurray	It is now!	17:12
bdmurray	http://people.canonical.com/~brian/tmp/apport-crash-package-count.txt	17:12
MootBot	LINK received: http://people.canonical.com/~brian/tmp/apport-crash-package-count.txt	17:12
pedro_	cool will add that to the planning page, sounds like something we need to have a look from time to time at least for the bug days	17:14
bdmurray	I was looking for things to consolidate	17:14
marjo_	folks: anything else on this topic?	17:15
marjo_	any new topics for discussion?	17:15
pedro_	marjo_, on the bug days no, that's all	17:15
bdmurray	I have a holiday present coming out soon	17:15
bdmurray	http://murraytwins.com/tmp/lp_highlight_words.png	17:15
MootBot	LINK received: http://murraytwins.com/tmp/lp_highlight_words.png	17:15
bdmurray	Its a new greasemonkey script that highlights words in bug reports	17:16
bdmurray	I find it easier to scan bug reports that way	17:16
marjo_	bdmurray: nice!	17:16
pedro_	that looks great :-)	17:16
fader_	bdmurray: Nice!	17:16
bdmurray	Any suggestions for words? This is what I have	17:17
bdmurray	'DistroRelease:.\|SourcePackage:.\|lucid\|karmic\|jaunty\|intrepid\|hardy\|dapper': "yellow",	17:17
bdmurray	'regression': "red",	17:17
bdmurray	oh, maybe there should be a separate color for old releases	17:18
bdmurray	like breezy ;-)	17:18
pedro_	could you define those somewhere?	17:18
pedro_	ah i see	17:18
marjo_	folks: any new topics for discussion?	17:19
bdmurray	pedro_: they are currently hard coded in the script	17:19
bdmurray	pedro_: do you mean you'd want to add your own words?	17:19
pedro_	bdmurray, right, but editing the script works for me :-P	17:20
pedro_	i was thinking on the kernel folks, they might want to highlight the kernel version for example	17:20
bdmurray	pedro_: got it	17:21
marjo_	folks: any new topics for discussion?	17:22
davmor2	marjo_: just a reminder that alpha 2 is out next week unless something mad happened	17:23
marjo_	reminder: Alpha 2 is next week, 14 january	17:23
marjo_	davmor2: ack	17:23
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
davmor2	marjo_: Wrong attitude should be YAY!!!!!!	17:24
fader_	davmor2: :)	17:24
marjo_	davmor2: YAY!!!!!!!	17:24
* davmor2 goes off to cry in the corner being as ubiquity is broken		17:24
marjo_	folks: any new topics for discussion?	17:26
marjo_	if not, i propose we adjourn the meeting	17:26
marjo_	going once	17:26
marjo_	twice	17:26
marjo_	meeting adjourned	17:26
soren	Whee!	17:26
marjo_	thx everyone!	17:27
marjo_	#endmeeting	17:27
MootBot	Meeting finished at 11:27.	17:27
fader_	Thanks all	17:27
pedro_	thanks	17:27
schwuk	thanks	17:27
kamusin	:)	17:28
davmor2	ta	17:28
=== fader_ is now known as fader\|lunch
=== fader\|lunch is now known as fader_
highvoltage	Good evening	19:00
* stgraber-n900 waves		19:01
alkisg	Hi all	19:01
highvoltage	hi, who's present?	19:01
stgraber-n900	fighting to get my laptop to boot :)	19:01
* Lns pokes his head in		19:02
highvoltage	ok so I have 5 people noted as present	19:03
highvoltage	agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda	19:03
HedgeMage	I'm here.	19:03
dhillon-v10	I'm here, but a new member though :)	19:04
highvoltage	hi dhillon-v10, and welcome	19:04
dhillon-v10	highvoltage, thanks and happy new year to all	19:04
dhillon-v10	highvoltage, you seem familiar :)	19:04
mgariepy	hi everybody	19:04
highvoltage	oh right, it's our first meeting of the year	19:04
Lns	hey all	19:04
highvoltage	happy new year to all of you then!	19:04
Lns	woot!	19:04
highvoltage	stgraber: want to say something about the netbook packages perhaps?	19:06
* stgraber waves for real		19:06
Lns	lol	19:06
* highvoltage couldn't help but wave for real either now :)		19:06
stgraber	I don't have X working but that's not really a requirement for IRC, so ...	19:06
stgraber	ok, so, I did the seed changes for the netbook edition	19:06
highvoltage	heh. nice big old fasioned 80x24 irssi :)	19:07
stgraber	though everything is currently stuck because the chinese packages don't install	19:07
maco	highvoltage: not if youve got KMS ;)	19:07
stgraber	nah, I have KMS so that's console but 1440x900 :)	19:07
dhillon-v10	stalcup, if you don't mind, what seems to be wrong with the chinese packages :)	19:07
* dhillon-v10 apologizes wrong person		19:08
highvoltage	maco: heh, good point	19:08
stgraber	ok, just got X working again !	19:08
stgraber	though not gdm, I had to startx ;)	19:08
highvoltage	stgraber: I saw you spoke to someone (I think it was cjwatson) about our builds that haven't been running, did you perhaps get any clarification on that?	19:08
stgraber	they actually are running	19:09
stgraber	I just don't get an e-mail about it until it succeeds to debootstrap	19:10
highvoltage	ah I checked today but it still only had the old one from 23 December	19:10
stgraber	http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/lucid/edubuntu-dvd/	19:10
stgraber	oh, actually, today it's something else that's broken, not the translation package	19:11
highvoltage	yesterday it seems like it was:	19:12
highvoltage	language-support-zh: Depends: language-support-zh-hans (>= 1:10.04+20091218) but it is not going to be installed	19:12
stgraber	exiv2: Depends: libexiv2-6 but it is not installable	19:12
nixternal	hola	19:12
highvoltage	yes that's today	19:12
stgraber	kubuntu is failing for a similar reason, so it's not something we can fix in edubuntu, it's common to all derivatives	19:13
stgraber	so, that was for the status of the netbook edition	19:14
stgraber	for the live LTSP, I haven't received an answer from cjwatson_ yet and as we don't get a DVD build anyway, it doesn't really help ;)	19:14
highvoltage	ok	19:14
stgraber	so, that was for the good news ;)	19:15
highvoltage	I guess it's also worth mentioning that there's diskless fat client support in LTSP now which will be available in lucid	19:15
stgraber	right, that package is actually in Lucid now, so it's already supported	19:15
alkisg	highvoltage: can you give us a short intro on how that works?	19:16
highvoltage	alkisg: it's a ltsp plugin	19:16
alkisg	(behind the scenes...)	19:16
* Lns was about to ask the same thing		19:16
highvoltage	alkisg: you basically do a --fat-client --fat-client-desktop x/edu/k/u/buntu	19:16
highvoltage	alkisg: it basically installs the desktop metapackages and all it's dependencies in the chroot	19:17
highvoltage	alkisg: stgraber added to ldm so that if you have a switch set, I think it's FAT_CLIENT = true or something similar in lts.conf	19:17
highvoltage	then ldm will load the local session in the chroot	19:17
stgraber	yep, that's FAT_CLIENT = True	19:17
alkisg	And the user home is mounted with sshfs?	19:18
highvoltage	it has some interesting consequences in the sense that you might want to run some apps remotely	19:18
highvoltage	alkisg: yes	19:18
stgraber	authentication is done using ssh and /home is mounted using sshfs	19:18
highvoltage	so it introduces the concept of remote-apps :)	19:18
Lns	heh	19:18
stgraber	ltsp-remoteapps can be used to start remote applications	19:18
Lns	stgraber: so auth doesn't require passwd/group files to sync w/the chroot or anything?	19:18
highvoltage	cool, I wasn't quite aware that that has been implemented yet	19:18
alkisg	highvoltage: did you try it? How does it "feel"? How much time did it get for a client to boot?	19:19
highvoltage	alkisg: it's quite fast, depends mostly on your network speed	19:19
highvoltage	alkisg: but even on 100mbps it's quite snappy	19:19
stgraber	I'm actually using ltsp-remoteapps at the office with firefox, it's very experimental but for some things, it works	19:19
highvoltage	alkisg: obviously you'll need a much better client than with a thin client	19:20
* alkisg would like to use that instead of standalone ubuntu installations for newer school labs... :)		19:20
alkisg	I'll give it a go as soon as Lucid is workable :-/	19:20
mgariepy	i might be able to try this next week.	19:20
highvoltage	mgariepy: want to give us an update on the menu editor?	19:20
Lns	highvoltage: are the sys requirements for a fat client basically the same as a normal standalone install of ubuntu?	19:21
mgariepy	The menu editor will be ready on the end of the week, i got a few bugs to fix before i release it	19:21
highvoltage	Lns: basically yes. it creates a compressed swap file in ram, I think about 128MB if you have 512MB, but we've also done away with jockey and apport, so it kind of balances out	19:22
highvoltage	Lns: so more or less the same yes	19:22
highvoltage	mgariepy: great!	19:22
Lns	mgariepy: rundown on menu editor?	19:22
mgariepy	i'll post a message on edubuntu-user edubuntu-dev when the package will be ready.	19:23
stgraber	Lns: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Specifications/EdubuntuLucidMenuEditor	19:23
Lns	stgraber: thx	19:23
stgraber	currently it let's you build the menu through the UI and save it, there	19:24
stgraber	there's still a bunch of bugfix to do as well as the actual profile packing	19:24
stgraber	and the UI to assign the menu to groups	19:24
stgraber	but it's looking really good and we are well on time for that	19:24
Lns	so this isn't overlapping any functionality with sabayon, right?	19:24
mgariepy	nop	19:24
stgraber	UI is similar but nope	19:24
Lns	mmk	19:25
stgraber	it's not modifying the user's menu but instead it's using XDG inheriting to modify the system menu	19:25
Lns	so it's basically like a global alacarte ?	19:25
mgariepy	Lns, yeah sort off, but we do not manage new "desktop-entry" only submenu and existing entries	19:26
Lns	cool =)	19:27
highvoltage	thanks mgariepy	19:27
mgariepy	you are welcome.	19:28
highvoltage	on the website front, HedgeMage has been working on a new theme	19:28
highvoltage	she also fixed up our current database	19:28
dhillon-v10	highvoltage, I would like to help out with the website	19:28
highvoltage	it was something like 190MB big and she got it down to like, 3MB	19:28
highvoltage	dhillon-v10: cool, ping us afterwards on #edubuntu. you're more than welcome to get involved	19:29
dhillon-v10	highvoltage, sorry	19:29
HedgeMage	dhillon-v10: we'll be happy to have you :)	19:29
highvoltage	so once that's replaced the site should be faster	19:29
highvoltage	dhillon-v10: sorry for? :)	19:29
dhillon-v10	highvoltage, disrupting the meeting when I could have talked to you guys later on	19:29
highvoltage	dhillon-v10: oh no problem, it's jsut that we don't want to spend 20 minutes talking about the website here :)	19:29
HedgeMage	So far the upgrade to 6.0 is done, the DB is cleaned up, and issues are written for the rest at http://github.com/HedgeMage/edubuntuorg/issues	19:30
highvoltage	HedgeMage: I don't have the links with your mock-ups handy, could you perhaps paste them?	19:30
HedgeMage	Additional comments/issues/etc are welcome	19:30
HedgeMage	highvoltage: hold on, let me grab them from the theming issue	19:30
HedgeMage	Mockups are at http://imagebin.ca/view/KgCXBt.html and http://imagebin.ca/view/5n49WaF.html	19:31
highvoltage	on the wiki side I've started mangling the wiki, meant to delete more pages but I think I already created 2 new ones :)	19:32
HedgeMage	highvoltage and I have already discussed that while we are using git to pass changes back and forth while we work, access to the repository will be restricted to protect users' personal information in the DB. When this is all done I'll write up a case study so folks can use any of the work we've done. :)	19:32
highvoltage	overall they should come down as more are combined though	19:32
HedgeMage	I just wanted to point that out so no one takes offense -- we do want community participation. :)	19:33
highvoltage	indeed	19:34
highvoltage	let	19:34
highvoltage	let's move on to the bug day	19:34
highvoltage	that's happening on the 12th, next week	19:34
highvoltage	sbalneav wrote a nice mail to the list about it	19:35
highvoltage	I think we should blog about it and get the word out	19:35
* HedgeMage puts it on her calendar		19:35
highvoltage	also, if everyone could make an effore to be around and in #edubuntu during the 12th for when people drop by, that would be great	19:36
highvoltage	ideally we should cover as many timezones as possible	19:36
stgraber	I'll try to remember to blog about it	19:37
highvoltage	I'll poke you :)	19:37
highvoltage	anything else?	19:38
highvoltage	how is everyone doing?	19:38
HedgeMage	I have a quick question...	19:38
sbalneav	sorry all, was in a work meeting	19:38
alkisg	About https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl1.2/+bug/203158 - can we put libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio in the seeds instead of alsa? It'll help in tuxpaint etc working by default, both in workstations and in ltsp...	19:39
ubottu	Ubuntu bug 203158 in pulseaudio "libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio must be installed as default by libsdl1.2debian" [Undecided,Confirmed]	19:39
HedgeMage	When it was ust highvoltage and I, making a quick issue queue on github for webstuff seemed like the thing to do, but is there somewhere more central/find-able that we can collaborate at least for issues?	19:39
highvoltage	no problem, any sabayon updates or is it status quo?	19:39
sbalneav	gksu is still broken	19:39
HedgeMage	I'm concerned becasue I'm not sure that github has any feature that will let us keep the queue public while the repo is private.	19:39
sbalneav	mvo is reluctant to --enable-forkpty	19:39
highvoltage	HedgeMage: there's edubuntu-website in Launchpad	19:40
highvoltage	HedgeMage: I guess it would be ideal to file bugs against it in LP	19:40
sbalneav	so, I'm going to have to dig into the libgksu code tonight, and see if I can fix it the way he'd prefer.	19:40
HedgeMage	highvoltage: that can work, though I think the repo should stay on github because afaik lp does not allow private repos	19:40
highvoltage	HedgeMage: ok, no problem	19:41
stgraber	LP supports private repo, you just need to poke an admin about it	19:42
highvoltage	we could give that a shoe	19:42
highvoltage	*shot	19:42
stgraber	any other business ?	19:44
alkisg	Should we start using https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+archive/ppa ? E.g. sbalneav could start uploading test versions of sabayon there, and stgraber could upload iTalc... I think it'll give some additional value to edubuntu.	19:44
stgraber	alkisg: I wouldn't just yet	19:44
stgraber	we need to get that team approved for archive upload first	19:44
stgraber	so the less we use it before we go through this process, the easier	19:44
highvoltage	stgraber: where do we do that? at the next developer board meeting?	19:44
sbalneav	alkisg++	19:45
stgraber	votation will end in two weeks, then we'll get the new developer board in place and we'll be able to ask for edubuntu-dev to be approved	19:45
highvoltage	ok	19:46
dhillon-v10	how about like a screenshot tour of edubuntu	19:46
stgraber	dhillon-v10: sounds like a good idea, we should probably think of that once we have the new website up and running and relatively close to relesae	19:47
highvoltage	dhillon-v10: we used to have that, I think it just became outdated so we removed it	19:47
stgraber	as we currently don't know what Edubuntu will look like	19:47
highvoltage	dhillon-v10: but a new one would be nice indeed	19:47
highvoltage	oh yes!	19:47
dhillon-v10	well :) after the rc gets out	19:48
HedgeMage	highvoltage: since you own edubuntu-webteam can you take into getting us that private repo?	19:48
highvoltage	I forgot to mention, I got in touch with Mads Rosendahl who did the ldm ubuntu artwork	19:48
highvoltage	he's going to make some wallpapers/artwork for us	19:48
highvoltage	hopefully it's real nice then we'll be able to finalise our artwork quite early	19:49
alkisg	Yey! That ldm artwork is very cool!	19:49
HedgeMage	highvoltage: In the mean time maybe dhillon-v10 and I can copy our issues over -- there are only 15 or so, so doing it manually should not be a big deal.	19:49
sbalneav	dhillon-v10: ah, you saw I added you to bugsquad?	19:49
stgraber	highvoltage: you didn't forward me the answer it seems ;)	19:49
HedgeMage	highvoltage: nice :) (re: artwork)	19:49
dhillon-v10	sbalneav, yup thanks a bunch :)	19:49
alkisg	About the pulseaudio problem, ubuntu doesn't seem to want to put libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio on the CD seeds, as it isn't in main (while -alsa is). But it breaks all SDL apps, both on workstations and on LTSP. On the other hand, we don't have the "main" limitation, we are allowed to put stuff from universe to our DVD. Should we consider putting it to the DVD seeds?	19:50
dhillon-v10	HedgeMage, alright I can do that :)	19:50
highvoltage	HedgeMage: ok that sounds good	19:50
HedgeMage	dhillon-v10: thanks :D	19:50
highvoltage	stgraber: eek, I assumed he replied-to-all, I'll do so	19:50
HedgeMage	highvoltage: in the mean time could you add dhillon-v10 and I to the webteam so we can play with the issue queue?	19:50
stgraber	alkisg: any other reason why it's not in Ubuntu ? because if the only reason is that it's not in main, then we do a MIR and are done with it	19:51
highvoltage	ok, you can both just apply and I'll approve	19:51
stgraber	I'm trying to make sure we have all core components of Edubuntu in main so we have the LTS support for these	19:51
dhillon-v10	HedgeMage, a quick question: since the some of the issues have been worked upon by different people could it be a good idea to have them as blueprints ?	19:51
stgraber	actual packages are less of an issue but common libraries really should be in main	19:52
alkisg	stgraber: I didn't hear of any other reason. They don't want it in Kubuntu/Xubuntu, as those don't use pulseaudio, but for Ubuntu, all bug reports state that "installing libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio resolves the no audio and hanging apps problems"	19:52
HedgeMage	highvoltage: done	19:53
dhillon-v10	HedgeMage, I think I am in the website team here right:https://edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-website	19:53
HedgeMage	dhillon-v10: it was my impression (and I haven't used LP in years) that a blueprint might be for say, the web relaunch as a whole, but they aren't really for individual issues.	19:53
highvoltage	dhillon-v10: yes you are	19:54
stgraber	alkisg: did you try poking TheMuso about it ? IIRC he's the one taking care of the sound stuff in Ubuntu	19:54
dhillon-v10	HedgeMage, okay then :)	19:54
highvoltage	blueprints are for speficications	19:54
alkisg	stgraber: no, the last person I talked with was crimsun	19:54
dhillon-v10	highvoltage, true I was wondering for some of then that are like enhancements	19:54
highvoltage	stgraber and I have to run to another meeting in 5 minutes	19:54
HedgeMage	what's edge.launchpad.net ?	19:54
stgraber	highvoltage: Ben isn't at the office yet, we have a few more mins it seems	19:55
highvoltage	is there anything else important that we need to log before moving to #edubuntu?	19:55
alkisg	stgraber: I'll try poking TheMuso, but I'm afraid I'll need someone to back me up for the MIR	19:55
highvoltage	ah, ok :)	19:55
HedgeMage	I don't think so	19:55
* HedgeMage departs		19:55
stgraber	alkisg: you can write the MIR following the new process (since this week) as describe on ubuntu-devel, then subscribe me to the bug	19:55
stgraber	I'll poke pitti if necessary to get it reviewed	19:55
alkisg	stgraber: do you have a link for the new MIR process?	19:56
alkisg	(if it's on the wiki, I'll find it...)	19:56
stgraber	alkisg: in your mailbox	19:57
alkisg	Thanks :)	19:57
highvoltage	ok...	19:57
highvoltage	BONG	19:57
highvoltage	(time to teleport to #edubuntu)	19:58
stgraber	hey, we finished it on time !	19:58
Lns	2min to spare even	19:58
mgariepy	have a nice day all!	19:58
=== _sky is now known as skydrome
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
=== fader_ is now known as fader\|away
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew_

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!