=== mnepton is now known as mneptok [02:37] We're almost out of time - quick, someone pull a http://xkcd.com/306/ on jussi01 ! [04:46] Flare-Laptop called the ops in #ubuntu (freefreef) [07:18] good morning [07:19] morning Daniel [07:19] hey MenZa [07:20] How's Berlin? [07:21] cold... -8°C, with windchill -13.7°C :) [07:22] 4C here. clear, starry sky. [07:22] dholbach: we have a guest bedroom ... [07:22] :) [07:23] mneptok: I'm not sitting outside, so I'm fine - but thanks :) [07:23] Niiiice. Approximately the same a bit NW. [07:23] http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=87123 [07:25] Out of principle, I don't click mneptok's links anymore! [07:25] Ah, it's only around -5.9°C here [07:25] MenZa: wise in your age now eh? [07:26] -9C, according to gnome-panel [07:26] indeed. [07:26] Oh yeah... panel. [07:26] * MenZa looks around, whistles. [07:26] hm. -10C, "feels like -16.5C". it didn't feel like 16 when i went for a smoke :\ [07:27] My panel says -4°C [07:27] topyli: I felt like death when I went for a smoke. I absolutely froze lterribly. [07:28] terribly* [07:28] sissy! [07:28] no, Dane! [07:29] as opposed to Finn! [07:29] that's what i said! [07:29] * topyli sends out the diplomats [07:33] :o [07:33] MenZa: those are different? [07:33] * tonyyarusso runs [07:33] I wish they weren't. [07:33] I want to be topylian. :( [07:34] s/topylian/topylinese/ [07:37] Oh, we lost ubottu. [07:37] :o [07:47] MenZa: we are all sissies compared to those in Manitoba :) [07:47] * tonyyarusso wants to go to Nunavut sometime, preferably the park at the north end of Ellsmere [07:48] or Norwegians. they eat lutefisk. [07:48] * MenZa loots mneptok [07:48] Only Norwegian descendants in America eat lutefisk these days. Actual Norwegians just bought refridgerators. [07:51] tonyyarusso, nope [07:51] the modernization of noway is a myth [07:51] norway even [07:52] That's just what they tell people to keep the immigrants out :P [07:52] swedes have something like that too, surströmming. very disgusting [07:52] topyli: but that's herring. [07:52] aye [07:53] yay herring [07:53] give me pulla and salamiakki korskenkova any day. [07:53] no kossu before lunch! [07:53] Finns are sissies. and good for them. :) [07:53] * tonyyarusso can get pulla across the street [07:54] The latter sounds like a tennis player. [07:59] salmiakkikossu? [07:59] Finnish black licorice vodka. danherous stuff. [07:59] *dangerous [08:03] i ate all the Kasugai gummies. no more admiring feelings of a graceful lady. [08:03] :( [08:11] mneptok: that stuff is gooooood. [08:11] Well, salmiak vodka. [08:11] * MenZa nomnomnoms. [08:15] So, any ETA on ubottu? [08:16] when salmiakkikossu was introduced in the 80s, lots of young finns accidentally the whole bottle :/ [08:16] yeah, hence my "dangerous" [08:17] "Is there any alcohol in this?" 10m later ... *thud* [08:17] :D [08:17] the stuff is too good :) [08:17] mneptok: rather, your danherous! [08:17] yeah, it is. [08:17] At least, if it's anything like what I'm thinking of. [08:18] We call it "sort svin". Vodka and 'tyrkisk peber', all mixed nicely. [08:18] exactly that [08:18] same stuff [08:18] thought so, yeah [08:18] i bag of Tyrkisk Peber per 750ml of vodka [08:18] 1, even [08:18] I can't say I've ever mixed any myself. [08:19] it's the only way i can do it here in the US. much easier to get Tyrkisk Peber through customs than a bottle of liquid. [08:20] which reminds me, i only have 1 bag left :/ [08:20] :( [08:20] mneptok: let me know if you need a shipment; I'l see if I can track some down. [08:20] I'll* [08:20] Now, cancer time. [08:20] <3 all. [08:21] MenZa: i have a Finnish source. he also signs my paycheck. :) [08:21] nicotine sounds good. out into the 0C. [08:26] mneptok, did you write a tyrkisk peber plan into your contract? :) [08:29] topyli: didn't have to. Monty insists i mix salmiakkikossu at every conference and event i attend. [08:29] oh yes, for PR [08:30] well, it helps other attendees tolerate me. :) [08:30] Caipiroska [08:30] BTW, jussi *hates* salmiakki. be sure to remind him he's not really Finnish. :) [08:31] hehehe [08:31] * maco learned jussi's not-finnish name during UDS [08:31] "Amanada" [08:31] -a [08:32] amanad? [08:32] or is it "Diane?" [08:33] heh [08:33] since we're on the candy subject, and i mentioned my lack of Kasugai gummies, tell me this packaging doesn't make you want to taste the contents - http://www.tinypineapple.com/archives/2007/07/images/kasugai_muscat_gummy.jpg [08:33] like ... wow. [08:34] admiring feelings of a graceful lady? O_o [08:34] maco: i know [08:34] *boggle* [08:35] woo asked me "will eating this candy somehow make me a lesbian?" [08:35] i told her "if living with me for a decade hasn't done it, nothing will." [08:36] rofl [08:37] hrm have to logout [08:37] that is a fair point, mneptok [08:38] maco: i love you, too. ;) [08:47] * jussi01 hugs dholbach, thats not cold... [08:47] * jussi01 notes that Oulu has a current temp of -29.5C [08:48] 21-32=-11/2= its -5°C ish here [08:48] jussi01: wowie [08:48] layers! [08:48] maco: yup! [08:49] maco: http://weather.willab.fi/weather.html [08:49] i made the mistake of going out with only 2 layers under my outerwear in -10°C ... only lasted an hour skiing [08:49] -29 sounds horrible [08:49] you dont go skiing in -29... :D [08:50] it also sounds like the point where F and C agree on a number [08:50] mneptok: Ah :3 [08:50] jussi01: you're in *Oulu*?! [08:50] mneptok: yes, I live here [08:50] maco: that's -40 [08:50] mneptok: oh. ok. i just went -60 + 30 = hey its -30 again! [08:50] jussi01: w t F! are you doing up *there*? [08:50] mneptok: rounding errors ;) [08:50] mneptok: see, I am a true finnish guy :P :P [08:50] mneptok: well.. [08:51] jussi01: not if you don't drink salmiakki [08:51] mneptok: oh, I do drink salmiakki... [08:51] jussi01: and shoot Russians for pleasure during winter vacations. [08:51] I see this conversation is still going. [08:51] \o/ [08:52] jussi01: is your fiancee Saami or something? ;) [08:53] mneptok: no, she is from Tuusala ;) [08:53] Tuusula? [08:53] yeah [08:54] heh [08:54] was there for a week last summer [08:54] * jussi01 slaps mneptok as he was told this at uds... [08:55] * mneptok slaps jussi01 for being violent [08:57] jussi01: I know, I know :) [08:58] hrrrr -29 is really cold in oulu [08:58] it's really cold, full-stop [08:58] the -7°C here is bad enough [08:59] jussi01, did your car start? iirc it's not a Lada :) [09:00] topyli: it has heating... why wouldnt it? [09:01] oh yes you have electricity there! :) [09:02] i feel bad for any amish people in finland [09:02] lol [09:02] * jussi01 is very glad of the little electric fan heater in the car also [09:03] the closest you get is the old-school laestadians, and they're okay with anything but the tv [09:03] topyli: do they have Matti Nykanen CDs? [09:03] no [09:03] i sure hope so! [09:03] there should be an 11th Commandment against such things [09:03] no? :( [09:03] church music only for them :P [09:04] mneptok: against tvs? [09:04] "Thou shalt not allow ski-jumping porn stars to have careers in music." [09:04] HAI HAI HAI, I AM A SAMURAI! [09:05] matti is no porn star, just an aspiring stripper [09:07] "aspiring stripper" sounds like somone that has problems with zippers and knots. [09:07] "hjalp! i can't get my socks off!" [09:07] he has problems, 'nuff said :( [09:08] true 'nuff [09:16] om26er called the ops in #ubuntu (boo-boo) [09:20] *sigh* [09:25] maco: is there a reason you're still opped in #u? [09:26] mneptok: jussi's afk and asked me to watch #u [09:26] but im not normally an op there, so i cant +o at will [09:38] bedtime. nighty kids. [09:45] morning [10:10] hi kids [10:20] hello there [10:26] someone more familiar with the bot than me, can we alias !une to !unr please [10:27] you know, we have a whole wiki page explaining how to use the bot ;) [10:28] !une is nbr [10:28] I'll remember that, tsimpson [10:28] !une [10:28] Ubuntu Netbook Remix is a slightly altered version of Ubuntu, optimised for small screens. For more information, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR - support in #ubuntu [10:28] yeah i know but im half busy right now :) [10:28] thanks [10:42] hi [11:08] Seeker`: .fi ? [11:10] ikonia: another name for ubottu.com ;) [11:11] ahhh of course he's on that server [11:19] ? [11:22] I'm just being stupid [11:36] good afternoon gentelman [11:37] ikonia informed me why I was banned (we wondered with Flannel and others recently) - it turns out I did in fact said "wtf" [11:37] LimCore: as I explained to you it was not just "wtf" it was the fact that your first words back in the channel where just a general minor rant [11:38] you know the rules, you where long term banned, I spoke to you and lifted the ban, and your first words back in the channel where a minor rant and "wtf", not really a good way to return to the channel after a long term ban [11:38] oh? But I ranted about mac os X (it was ot, but I was repling to something) [11:38] I don't remember the exact details, it wouldn't be that hard to dig it out, just a little time consuming [11:39] the bottom line is, it's just not time effecctive to have to monitor everything you do in the ubuntu channel, this was decided long ago hence your long term ban, I thought your behaviour had improved based on other channels (which it had) and talked to you and removed the ban, then your first time back in #ubuntu you went back to your old ways, and appear to have also done this in other channels [11:40] ok but I didnt say anything about ubuntu. TopCat: last time I usaed mac os, it forced me to watch stupid commercialls on the DVD I bought (WTF?) [11:41] LimCore: that was just one line [11:42] I said all like 10 lines in last months. http://pastebin.ca/1741311 [11:42] because you're been banned [11:42] actually, I was *going* to say something, but then I stoped and I didnt say it [11:42] you did say something [11:43] that paste there is verbatime paste of all I said. as you can grep in logs as well [11:43] as I said, - bottom line was you where on a long term ban because of this, I thought it was worth another shot with you, you instantly proved me wrong so from my perspective it's back to a long term ban [11:43] but I did not said anything. You perhaps missread what I said. [11:43] no, I didn't [11:43] then could you show me what I did said then? [11:43] "good job ubuntu" - nice sarcastic pointless comment as normal, WTF, macOS discussion [11:44] I was goind to say something, but I stoped there [11:44] but you had already said what I've just hilighted [11:45] "good job ubuntu" does not sound very insulting [11:45] or does it [11:46] to me the last few lines where just uncalled for/rude/offtopic [11:46] which was your previous behaviour, which you have since continued in other channles [11:46] I fully admit you stopped which is why I thought it best to re-invite you back after your baheviour changed over such a long period of time, but then it appears to have reverted to rude/rant/sarcasm [11:47] so channel policy is to not allow any not very happy comments, to have some forced candyland? [11:47] no, channel policy is to not have rude and offensive comments or offtopic conversations [11:48] I know the topic can slip at times, everyone does, but you seem unable to control your poinless comments and rants, and frequently use inappropriate language [11:48] I stoped right there after "good job" - BECAUSE - I instead, moved it to bugs channel, where people have less allcandy approach [11:48] and filled a bug [11:48] your "good job" comment was still something you've been asked to do with your sarcastic comments and rants [11:49] bottom line is - I've banned you for how I see your previous behaviour and your current behaviour pattern being a problem, we can't keep track on your behaviour all the time, it's too much effort so it's easier to put you back on long term ban again [11:49] I tihnk "good job" is really very polite compared to how it takes 20 MINUTES to just CONFIGURE the partitions in installer, which I then continued in bugs; I think forcing optimist comments is not too good for users of, nor for, ubuntu [11:49] unless someone strongly disagrees and wants to remove the ban, I'm leaving it on that stance [11:50] you don't have to be optimist, just cut the rants/smart mouth comments, I have lots of problems with ubuntu or how they do something, but I don't feel the need to constantly go off about them in channels [11:51] I was thinking of throwing the laptop out the window instead [11:51] that's not my concern [11:51] but finally it took "only" 5 hours to have sound i/o working :) [11:51] that's not my concern either [11:52] LimCore: there's no excuses for bad behaviour in our support channels [11:52] something you should already know [11:52] I'll have to leave for a while now [11:53] Tm_T: then I propose perhaps it would be better to consider normal critics to be an part of discussions on channel, as it happens in other channels... Other channels all the time get comments like "oh man this sucks" and so on, and they live, and it does not seem to be a problem - unless its rally a big flood and so on [11:53] LimCore: that's problem in noisy channel [11:53] LimCore: especially with your bad language [11:54] Tm_T: you consider "wtf" a bad language, honestly? [11:54] yes [11:54] wow [11:54] and apparently I'm not alone, as the rule of "don't use wtf" is not made by me [11:55] I wondered why other channels do not have problem with it, it seems [11:55] or, why #ubuntu seem to have noticibly more candy policy then other channels. [11:56] because it only takes a 1200 person channel a whisper and a heartbeat to go in to a frenzy of impropriety [11:56] there's channels I'm on where that is problem, and channels where it isnt, rules in IRC are not same everywhere [11:56] elky: that, yes [11:56] hmm ok I guess it makes some sense [11:56] LimCore: and FYI the policy in #ubuntu is (or should be) followed in other *buntu support channels too (: [11:57] oh, it does [11:57] clear lines in this kind of things keep huge channels sane [11:58] although, people do use "wtf" as normal part of conversations this days. Perhaps you should reconsider that or something if you will [11:58] LimCore: which people? all? most? where is the limit then? [11:58] it's not that simple [11:58] that said, we tend to not have wtf on highlight as most of us are in channels with less need for such rules. if we notice you, it's not solely for that reason [11:58] many people use very violent language, that doesn't mean its acceptable everywhere then [11:58] if "wtf" is not "on highlight" then cool [11:59] still I do not like very much how moderate amount of rant is also not allowed, it makes me think of China like approach to critisicm [12:00] LimCore: support channel is not place for critisism [12:00] then where [12:00] it's for support, and support only [12:00] start a blog [12:00] was about to say that (: [12:01] or in any chitchat channel (if their rules allows it, that is) [12:01] people pissed off about bugs will want to express that somewhere in freenode too [12:01] LimCore: support channels are not the place, period [12:01] I know ubuntu is free, but still [12:02] hmm, maybe we should have big flashy sign saying "support channels are not place for ranting, move on" [12:02] ok now it makes sort of sense. Still, I would decide to not ban for moderated amount of all this bad bad things ;) [12:02] Tm_T: perhaps [12:02] good policy seems imho to ban exponentially [12:03] like.. for 1h, 2h, 4h, 8h, 1d, 2d, 4d, 1w, 2w, month, months, years [12:03] with that you can also auto kick (and tempban) automatically for "bad words" [12:03] LimCore: nope, when you already have bad record [12:03] Tm_T: well, that is part of the bad record [12:04] if you have bad record then next one can be 2w [12:04] LimCore: and your previous longterm ban means this one is twice as long then? [12:04] Im not saying about myself [12:04] I know [12:05] and really, automatic unban is not good thing when someone has misbehaved [12:05] well if this system would be used, then for example 5 sayings of "wtf" or "sucks" would make next bans week long [12:05] no [12:05] unbanning without any sign of learning is just nonsense [12:05] uhm [12:05] huh? O_o [12:06] ban already is bad thing in my mind [12:06] so if person is banned 1w for aimbot, then he is going to show "sign of learning" how exactly, being banned? [12:06] LimCore, you've been around long enough and interacted with ops often enough that none of what is being said here about our typical practices should be of any surprise to you. [12:06] LimCore: in other channels, or by talking with us [12:07] biggest problem with need for bans [12:07] is in online games. Like 50 bans per day. Perhaps some ideas from there could be inspiring for rules here [12:07] what I ment as well, is that automatic rules appear more fair [12:08] if you have 50 bans a day, then nobody is learning. [12:08] LimCore: really, automatic unban is not helping anyone [12:08] I have seen it, and it is bad bad bad thing [12:08] elky: typically 20 ban/day on 30 slot server, if you teamkill 2 times (even by accident). In time people do learn to be more mindfull of teamplayers (or go elsewhere) [12:09] similar rules for cursewords [12:09] a 30 slot server meaning 30 people can play at any one time? [12:09] yes [12:09] yes. And this is a lot for this type of game [12:09] ... so in #ubuntu terms that would mean... 800 bans a day? [12:09] and machine cannot separate bad usage of words from good, if there's one [12:09] its biggest server probably, and only one that big that have good quality [12:09] elky: or more [12:09] geez, we are soooo harsh now :) [12:10] no no, there are less bad things that can be done in ubuntu [12:10] LimCore: that amount of bans means no good quality to me, sorry (: [12:10] grep to see how many fuck|shit is used per day then [12:10] that many bans would have freenode kicking us off i suspect [12:10] Its not what I ment [12:10] purely for the amount of crying that #freenode would receive [12:10] I said 50b/day just to show that this is very very hard job to moderate a server there [12:11] and with this very very hard to moderate server/channel, they use few rules I described, and it works [12:11] anyway, this conversations is IMO nonsense, no we cannot do that, atleast not now in any way, except _clear_ abuse [12:11] as do the rules for ubuntu channels [12:12] Tm_T: you can not define length of ban for given not nice thing, and make it longer on reoccurance? [12:12] in more precise way [12:12] LimCore, if we were going by a default incremental, you'd be up to about a 10 year ban by now. [12:12] :) [12:12] see? how greate it works [12:13] you might want to be more appreciative of a "we'll review when we feel it appropriate" [12:13] and other people less irritated by bugs would rething after 2w (or 4w) time and would be nicer [12:13] as this will stand you with some chance of seeing the inside of the channel in the forseeable future [12:14] LimCore, this conversation has run it's course. please let us get back to what we do. [12:15] right. still it would be better to allow a bit more critique in #ubuntu too ;) [12:15] this is one of the guys that drove hobbsee out of userspace :) [12:16] I remember this one, been, well, annoying and bad behaviour for long [12:17] I wonder what would drive me out, perhaps only bans... [12:18] [14:15:15] right. still it would be better to allow a bit more critique in #ubuntu too ;) <-- so we can add yet more traffic? [12:19] jussi01: unwanted traffic, yes, with angry cursing and personal attacks [12:21] Tm_T, hobbsee was dealing with him in userland as well as devland, and was actually able in devland to deal with him whereas userland is much harder to moderate and hence he keeps getting chances here which frustrated her and contributed to her hitting breaking point [12:22] elky: aye, my saviour is being busy outside of internet enough to not have deal with these things much I guess [12:22] other people also contributed, including the persistence in rescinding on promises by the founder of the channel that shall not be named, etc. [12:22] ye [13:49] Tm_T, elky: LimCore has joined the -bugs. [13:49] jpds, is hobbsee currently there? [13:49] Yep. [13:50] jpds, she has him on highlight i believe, she'll be watching with bugspray in hand :) [13:50] Woo, op mace. [13:52] he holds membership of a refined group of folks that also includes the likes of kmos and eagles. [13:53] the "Everybody is so freaking sick of" group :) [14:26] * ikonia apologies for unbanning limcore [14:27] he really seemed to have changed and was contributing well to other channels, I thought it was worth inviting him back in [14:28] ikonia: no harm done [14:29] I know, but I had hopes, he was a real pain, then all of a sudden changed to a solid contributer to other channels, then for some reason crashed again when he rejoined #ubuntu (crashed in all other channels too) [14:29] personally a bit dissapointed as I thought he'd turned a corner [14:29] ikonia, not worth apologising. you've just saved us the bother of having to validate the ban's continuance in the face of old data ;) [15:44] @mark SuPeRhOmEm on -ot offensive quit message. memo sent asking to change it [15:44] blergh [15:45] topyli: please use the channel name too, otherwise it'll grab #ubuntu-ops's log [15:45] oh yeah. btw i was just notified the message was read. we'll see [15:46] and now, i have rock and roll duties. later [16:08] HBX: hello [16:11] HBX: do you know what your default quit message is? [16:37] llutz called the ops in #ubuntu (The_shark_001) === quok_ is now known as quok [17:00] In ubottu, jpds said: !testdrive is Testdrive makes it simple to run any Ubuntu release in a virtual machine, safely, and without affecting your current Ubuntu installation. See: https://launchpad.net/testdrive [17:01] ubottu: Up yours. [17:01] @login [17:01] The operation succeeded. [17:01] :O [17:01] Pici: ;) [17:01] I just usually @login, on connect. [17:02] Shouldn't have said that though, sorry. [17:12] I asked MichealH to stop with the announcements, but I'm not sure if hes going to listen. [17:15] Pici: hm? [17:16] 12:06:23 Get help at www.ubuntuforums.org or goto the Ubuntu IRC Channel @ #ubuntu [17:16] 12:06:34 Get Involved @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate [17:18] oh, right [18:13] * Pici sighs [19:04] jussi, ikonia, ping [19:05] Seeker`: using my nick helps [19:05] worked, didn't it? :P [19:05] jussi01: mind if i pm you? [19:05] Seeker`: of course not :) [19:05] You can always bother jussi01 [19:06] lol [19:13] There's a guy in #ubuntu-meeting - MichealH - he's not misbehaving exactly - more like being unhelpfully helpful. Based on Pici's earlier comments, he's apparently known to you. [19:15] If someone's free, it might be worth keeping an eye on him and attempting to educate him - unless that's already been tried. [19:23] maxb: ah, more enthusiasted than skilled? [19:24] Indeed. Of particular concern to me is that he's inviting people to ##ubuntu-lessons which he's apparently set up. - advertising double-hash unofficial channels on official ubuntu channels seems in poor taste to me. [19:24] it is [19:25] agh, I just don't have time or patience to deal with him... [19:25] someone, please? [19:25] He's gone quiet when I called him on that, so I guess there's nothing to be done right now. [19:26] maxb: yeah, if he says something more ping me please [19:27] will do [19:35] jussi01: He's back, having ignored my question [19:36] maxb: Ill sort it :) [19:40] And now he's privmsging me :-( [19:40] I didnt advertise my channel just there [19:40] But you did advertise your channel there [19:40] I would prefer that any discussion continue on-channel [19:40] ok [19:41] Hi, are those announcements in #ubuntu authorized? [19:41] ETA 90mins till Women Meeting IRC on #ubuntu-meeting [19:41] seems to me they increase the chatiness [19:41] No, they are not. I've reported the same guy doing it in #ubuntu-meeting and jussi01 is on the case [19:41] Im in pm with him now, its getting sorted [19:42] if you 2 dont need anything else? [19:42] ok - have a nice time [19:42] Indeed - bye! [19:43] ah jussi01: I think you were the one who once complained as I left the ops-channel too quickly - now please give me at least a few seconds to leave :-) [19:44] bye [19:49] I think michaelh will be fine, just a littl e over enthusiastic :) [19:51] indeed [19:51]