bdmurrayyofel: updated00:08
* yofel goes testing...00:09
yofelbdmurray: thx :D00:10
bdmurrayno problem00:10
bdmurrayI'd always just used the collect it one for kernel bugs00:10
bdmurraydepending on the release00:10
yofelwhich until now really was the better choice00:11
yofelwell, the new kernel response is pretty much a merge between the old one, the kernel policy page, and the collect it response00:12
bcurtiswxIs it going overboard making my potential mentees appear on IRC and chat with me in this room to start with before accepting them as mentees?00:19
bdmurraymicahg: new firefox-lp-improvements uploading too00:21
crimsunbcurtiswx: not necessarily, though it may be unduly burdensome00:21
micahgbdmurray: will it fix the edit issue, I had to disable that00:21
crimsunbcurtiswx: after all you set the grounds on which you mentor them00:21
persiabcurtiswx: I don't think it makes sense for everyone to require that, but if you need confirmation that you can interact with them on IRC in order to be comfortable the mentorship will be successful, it makes sense to do that.00:21
bdmurrayit fixes the ajax issue but still changes it on the +edit url00:21
bdmurrayI'm working on that too00:21
bcurtiswxThats the easiest way to get help anytime on triaging... I think its extremely important... so i guess its ok.00:22
bcurtiswxi don't want to be a burden to them if I'm not available and they want some help... ya know... having them know this is a great place for help is good00:22
persiabcurtiswx: Depends on the nature of the mentorship.  I once had a very successful (MOTU) mentorship that was done almost entirely via email.  The individual concerned now uses IRC *lots*, but was uncomfortable with it at first.00:23
micahgbdmurray: that's good enough for me right now00:23
bdmurraymicahg: me too! ;-)00:23
persiaBut, yeah, stressing that this is the place to come is a good idea :)00:23
bcurtiswxpersia: good point, this person has an irc account tho.. so i can assume some general familiarity00:23
micahgthanks bdmurray00:23
bdmurraymicahg: well it was rather embarassing :-(00:24
hggdhbcurtiswx: the major gain is for them to realise anyone here can help00:31
bcurtiswxhggdh: Yup, thats what I hope to get them to realize00:31
=== ryanakca_ is now known as ryanakca
LimCoreI was wondering... would it be a good future request, to have a clipboard in gnome? So that copy/paste would work02:24
LimCorefor example like the current one, but instead one that actually works (even if source copy application was closed)02:24
micahgLimCore: glipper02:25
LimCoremicahg: why... WHY why it's not on by default?02:27
micahgLimCore: idk02:27
LimCorehuman being do not want to search that information, and they really are totally irritated when they copied very important data to clipboard, closed source application (not saved) and... it's gone02:27
micahgLimCore: well, there's a bug about making the apps follow the freedesktop standard02:28
micahgwhich I think you've seen02:28
LimCorewhich one?02:28
micahgbug 1133402:28
ubot4Launchpad bug 11334 in ubuntu "MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1133402:28
LimCoreoh right. Well, it was indeed an epic fail even in 2009. 2010, still not fixed02:29
micahgLimCore: it's in universe02:29
micahgLimCore: it's been fixed in FF trunk02:29
LimCorebut it's not about firefox02:30
LimCoreits about gnome overall02:30
micahgwell if each app followed the standard, you wouldn't need a separate clipboard manager02:30
LimCorewell to be honest, as an I user, I couldn't care less02:30
LimCoreand I think most users will share this position, we would like it just working02:31
PiciThere isn't a magic wand we can wave to fix all bugs, you know this.02:31
micahgLimCore: maybe you should file a Main inclusion request for glipper if it does what you want and you think it would benefit a lot of users02:31
LimCorehow about enabling this extra clipboard app, by default, or doing What Ever Is Needed - at least for now?02:31
micahgLimCore: it's in universe, so it can't be on the CD02:31
LimCorePici: but here it appears what is missing, is a decission, to include it02:32
LimCoremicahg: well.. I don't care about the CD.. it can install as soon as I have internet (or - for 99% of users - install from internet during main installation)02:32
micahgLimCore: I don't think any of the universe packages are installed by default02:33
micahgbut I can't say for sure02:33
* LimCore installs this glipper02:33
LimCorewhat i like here, is that this is again DOUBLE-BUG :)02:34
LimCorei.e.: I found a bug, /while/ reporting /another bug/02:34
LimCoreback to the original bug though02:35
LimCoreA crash-bug I reported on..    2008-11-20  .. was marked fixed.. but it AGAIN is the case! and 100% reproducable02:35
LimCorewhat should I do?02:35
LimCorebug 30012702:37
ubot4Launchpad bug 300127 in kdepim "crash when selecting email when input-passphrase/pin (OpenPGP) window is open and then canceled" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30012702:37
persiaThat's something deeper: I've had a number of hangs when dismissing the gpg-agent02:39
LimCorepersia: this is same bug as before - same bugtrace: parseMsg() and below;  and that bug was it seems in kmail itself02:40
LimCorebut comment on that bug and on KDE bug please;  I will reopen KDE bug too02:40
micahgLimCore: why not talk to the person who marked it fixed02:40
micahgbefore you reopen02:40
LimCorebecause then people ban me everywhere :< lol02:40
persiaNah, if you've a backtrace in kmail, it's better to fix that, rather than rely on anecdotal evidence.  I'm not confident enough about my behaviour to have a bug yet.02:41
LimCorenah ok, I will also ask him. Well but why wait with reopening, obvioyusly there is the bug,  and people then can at least find it and comment it instead of dupl.02:41
micahgLimCore: let me see if I can grab him to come in here02:41
* LimCore apt-get installs ispell-polish-curses02:42
LimCorebtw, is "wtf" considered bad language in this channel or not?02:42
micahgLimCore: talk02:42
LimCoreJontheEchidna: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/300127 seems to happen again02:42
ubot4Launchpad bug 300127 in kdepim "crash when selecting email when input-passphrase/pin (OpenPGP) window is open and then canceled" [Undecided,Confirmed]02:43
LimCoresame back trace of the bug - kmail crashes under parseMsg() in parse ID or body().  That bug was makred fixed, but now it happens again, always, in identical conditions, and it crashes in identical way02:43
LimCoreIm now on up to date ubuntu 9.10 - Version 4.3.2 (KDE 4.3.2)02:44
JontheEchidnaprobably http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18074102:45
ubot4KDE bug 180741 in general "crash in kmail (typeinfo name for, KMReaderWin::parseMsg)" [Crash,New]02:45
LimCorethen that 180741 appears to be a duplicate of02:48
ubot4KDE bug 125512 in general "KMail crashes if selecting anothe mail while being prompted for password" [Crash,Resolved: fixed]02:48
LimCore(from year 2007.......)02:48
LimCoreupdateReaderWin -> displayMessage -> parseMsg   same bug since 2007?02:49
JontheEchidnaIt would appear so, I suppose02:50
LimCoreoh my02:50
* LimCore totally facepamls02:50
LimCorehow to get this bug fixed then?02:50
persiaTry the same patch that fixed it last time, and if that works, track down why it got unapplied, and try to come up with something that solves both issues.02:51
LimCorecool, except, Im not qt developer02:51
persiaMany recurring bugs happen because there are two behaviours which are bad in certain corner cases, and the bits get flipped back and forth.02:51
persiaDon't need to be: just hunt down the revision that closed the original bug, and extract that patch.  Apply it.02:52
persiaIf it doesn't work, then maybe you need to be a qt developer, but if it works, you can track down the unapply, and add a lot of useful information to the bug for the qt developer who ends up fixing it.02:52
LimCoreand how to do such bisection comfortably on Ubuntu?02:53
JontheEchidnaI can't reproduce this bug even now, though. the KMail interface doesn't seem to respond when the pinentry dialog is open02:53
LimCoreby comfortably, I mean Im having not much own time02:53
JontheEchidnawhich is why I closed the upstream bug 5 months ago (there wasn't a patch)02:53
LimCoreJontheEchidna: I open pinentry, try to click in kmail, try to close it,  then close pinentry. Try doing it few times, try alt+tab around, try closing windows, it works02:53
ubot4JontheEchidna: Bug 5 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/5 is private02:53
LimCoreJontheEchidna: you closed the bug without "fixing it", just because you could not reproduce? but it was makred fix released?02:54
JontheEchidnaWEll, it's not like I thought you or anybody else was lying when they said they could access other mails when the pinentry dialog was open02:56
JontheEchidnaand if then, in KDE 4.3, I could not access other mails while pinentry was open...02:56
LimCorethat is right, I can not access other email with pinentry ,thought  still it crashes. it seems that TRYING to acces it causes crash02:57
LimCoretry defocusing pinetry with alt+tab, click around a lot, try closing kmail02:57
LimCorebtw there are more bugs about kmail and pgp02:58
LimCoreI would really like to have an OpenPGP client in ubuntu that actually is polished and works02:59
LimCoreI think instead updating bug trackers,  just someone with Qt and kmail knowledge must look at this03:05
persiaLimCore: Perhaps you could clearly document the steps to reproduce, given the treatment of the last bug.  If the developer can reproduce, there's a *much* higher chance it can be fixed.03:10
LimCoreok I thinkg we have some more info03:16
LimCoreJontheEchidna: insturction how to reproduce more easly: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=180741#c5903:25
ubot4KDE bug 180741 in general "crash in kmail (typeinfo name for, KMReaderWin::parseMsg)" [Crash,New]03:25
=== dous_ is now known as dous
LimCoreperhaps ubuntu can get its funds and aid development of most critical apps03:40
LimCorelike, to have one really good email clients03:40
LimCorekmail would be perfect.. but it has few bugs.  Similar as krusader would be perfect file manager03:40
persiaUm, "Ubuntu" doesn't really have funds, per se.  The Ubuntu Foundation has funds, but those are in trust for the future if unexpected things happen.03:41
persiaFor now, Ubuntu is entirely based on volunteer and sponsored activities.03:42
persiaBut Ubuntu doesn't control what sponsors choose to sponsor.03:42
LimCorehow to quickly set up environment to build current version of kmail and try to fix something in it?03:43
ubot4sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto03:43
ubot4pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto03:43
persiaInstall one of those, apt-get source kmail, fiddle the source, and build.03:43
LimCoreI think 90% of developers will not help, because they do not have time for entry cost03:43
persiaAsk in #kubuntu-devel if you need help mangling the source03:43
LimCoreI feel like it will take 100 hours to get to know the tools and libs, and 5 to fix the bug03:44
persia(maybe there's a better channel, but #kubuntu-devel can point you there better than I)03:44
LimCoreseems to be obstibcle for foss model03:44
HobbseeLimCore: 'ubuntu' actually already has a couple of pretty reasonable email apps. your issue is with kubuntu03:54
HobbseeLimCore: that being said, you can easily run things like thunderbird on kubuntu, which I found behaved better than kmail03:59
micahgLimCore: are you running kubuntu?04:02
=== Flare183_ is now known as Flare183
thekorngood morning bugsquad07:54
LimCore_Hobbsee: micahg: I tested thunderbird (and evolution some time ago) they are not advanced enough, only kmail provides some functionallity. Functionallity that I look for was for example provided, around 8 years ago, before I was even using linux, by program "thebat" for example. Now best what linux offers doesnt do even 60% of that function, and closest application that is usable for business (kmail) have lots of bugs, from which one08:36
LimCore_crashbug exists since 200608:36
micahgLimCore_: you have to understand that projects cannot get to all bugs, unless there is either a lot of people asking for it, the bug affect a lot of people, or the developer wants to fix it, it probably will not get attention.  That's why patches are always welcome, there are not enough developer hours to fix every bug08:38
LimCore_micahg: the bug in question have over 6 duplicates on bugs.kde.org, and was reporetd/commented by a lot of people there and in ubuntu and probably in other places too08:40
LimCore_you say patches, ok08:41
LimCore_lets look how it will go08:41
micahgLimCore_: it seems like the steps to reproduce were not clear enough to warrant it having been closed08:41
* micahg scrolls up to see how your conversation went08:41
LimCore_I will be learning QT, including tricks and kludges (since this is causing bug) for 80 hours08:41
LimCore_I will be learning internals of kmail for 40 hours08:41
LimCore_then I will fix the bug in 5 hours08:41
LimCore_125 vs 5 is why I makes not too much sence that I fix it08:42
LimCore_and that is the optimistic version08:42
LimCore_I belive most developers are in simillar positon; if they now the tools and libs, they still need to learn the entire application inner-workings08:43
micahgLimCore_: that's usually not necessary if the patch already exists like was suggested to you earler08:45
micahgyou can use the debian build system to apply the patch08:45
micahgLimCore_: BTW, thunderbird and enigmail work great together08:46
* micahg hopes to have enigmail updated for lucid with TB308:47
LimCore_but it turned out it was never patched, just that for JontheEchidna the bug did not happen, and it appeared that the source of bug (selecting other msg while pinentry is open) is removed. (but it turns out just TRYING to select other msg also causes crash)08:47
LimCore_micahg: now, they fail08:47
LimCore_want to debug it with me actually?08:47
LimCore_I was recommending coworhers to use TB, but we turned out it fails with PGP, so I was going to recommend kmail but it crashes all the time, so what should I now recommend, windows? ;)08:47
micahgLimCore_: yes, because the steps to reproduce weren't clear enough for him to conclude the bug wasn't fixed...wfm is a common resolution in bug trackers08:48
LimCore_*coworkers (lol)08:48
micahgLimCore_: I used it with PGP in Ubuntu, TB2 + enigmail from repos08:48
micahgworked great08:48
LimCore_micahg: do you want to debug Thunderbird PGP bug?08:48
micahgLimCore_: sure, when I'm a little more awake08:48
micahgLimCore_: what tz are you in?08:49
LimCore_thunderbird-sometimes-sends-attachments-outside-of-encr-signed-part  and  thunderbird-does-not-show-that-message-from-kmail-was-signed08:49
LimCore_almost 10:00 in the morning here08:49
micahgk, so your UTC +108:49
micahgLimCore_: let's see if TB3 + enigmail works for you08:49
micahgdo you have 64 bit or 32 bit?08:50
LimCore_micahg: what is your email?09:16
micahgmy nick at ubuntu dot com09:16
* LimCore_ just crashed kmail again \o09:18
LimCore_lets try again.09:18
LimCore_micahg: example information I sent you is of course confidential etc etc (so not to waste time bluring out stuff)09:20
micahgof course09:21
LimCore_it would appear that emails with PGP can be either inline PGP or PGP/MIME.09:24
LimCore_with inline/PGP - the attachments are not sig+encr (as it is by definition)09:24
LimCore_with PGP/MIME, thunderbird is not showing if given decrytped message was signed or unsigned09:24
LimCore_so neither way works fully it would seem09:24
micahgLimCore_: my guess is it depends how enigmail is configured09:25
LimCore_in that email I just sent you, probably first message appears ok (encr+sign attach) because it was PGP/MIME then09:25
LimCore_all is on clean system, on default config09:25
micahgLimCore_: do you have 32 bit or 64 bit?09:25
LimCore_for box with kmail and for box with thunderbird09:25
LimCore_is my understanding of inline PGP  versus  PGP/MIME  above correct?09:26
LimCore_Hobbsee: btw, Thunderbird is dissqualified for me for not having:  1) good templates   2) always-CC-to field (only always-BCC-to exists.. why they could not done it fully)09:26
micahgLimCore_: TB3 has a lot of enhancements, almost 3 years of development09:28
LimCore_how to use that in our 9.10 ubuntu?09:28
micahgunfortunately, since you're using 64 bit, you'll have to wait until I can get a 64 bit enigmail packaged09:28
micahgupstream only does 32 bit09:28
LimCore_ITS YOU!  /me sets up a bomb09:28
LimCore_well, if you do it I can help testing ;)09:29
micahgLimCore_: I have a PPA with a test build of the final version of TB3, but it's still called shredder09:29
LimCore_shredder? not stable?09:29
micahgLimCore_: it's the stable version, just w/out the branding09:33
micahgI'm working on that too09:33
LimCore_you think I care about some logo, for my work? :)09:38
LimCore_if thats the only problem with it, then its not any problem09:38
micahgLimCore_: that's the only thing missing from it09:40
micahgbut we don't have 64 bit enigmail yet09:40
LimCore_where it can be ready?09:42
LimCore_will that go into ubuntu 9.10 once done?09:42
micahgLimCore_: idk if it'll go into 9.10, but for sure in Lucid09:44
micahgwe might have a PPA for it09:44
LimCore_about enigmail.. is it possible to use your TB, and install enigmal "as on windows" so get this plugin thingy and then import plugin in the TB?09:45
micahgLimCore_: not on 64 bit09:45
micahgon 32 bit you can use the version from addons.mozilla.org09:46
LimCore_and mozilla.org is not providing 64b...?09:48
micahgLimCore_: no, it needs to be compiles against some things, it's not a normal extension09:49
elleucaI like to report a bug against a working but not recognized webcam (i.e. described using "UVC Camera" instead "$Vendor $Model"): do I've to open it against udev or .... ?10:32
persiaelleuca: Actually, that's the kind of bug report we handle very badly, unfortunately.10:33
persiaIf lsusb gives the right vendor and model, you might report it against the application you're using.10:34
persiaif lsusb doesn't give the right model, you want to report it to the usb device list maintainer10:34
* persia hunts10:34
elleucapersia: yes, only the model is missing10:34
persiahttp://www.linux-usb.org/usb-ids.html has the instructions for submitting data to the USB ID repo.10:35
elleucaOK, thanks10:35
persiaIt may take some time for it to get to Ubuntu.10:35
elleucaI'll hack usb.ids meanwhile ;)10:37
persiaHeh.  I usually just leave working but unidentified stuff alone after submitting.  There's a small (but significant) pleasure in having it be suddenly recognised after an upgrade and knowing it was me.10:38
LimCoreI debugged some more10:58
LimCoreHobbsee: thunderbird is not usable for OpenPGP - it fails to show that message is Signed, for sig+encr messages that are in the PGP/MIME format (that is prefered, and that is only format that will work for attachments)10:58
HobbseeLimCore: are you using the relevant extension?11:19
HobbseeLimCore: given the number of bugs you seem to find in kmail, it would probably be worth you learning it to fix them11:21
LimCoreHobbsee: I just spend half our of mine and coworker's time to fully debug and document thigs bug. This is bug in thunderbird. Stand by for the report11:31
LimCore(fully - from user side so far)11:31
Hobbseereminds me, i should file my bug on thunderbird.  wonder where my login details to their bugzilla are11:31
LimCoreand this bug makes thunderbird totally useless for OpenPGP11:32
Hobbseeoh, nice, enigmail is updated for thunderbird 3.011:36
Hobbseeand it crashes.  drat11:39
Hobbseeah well.  works better for me than the other email software11:40
LimCorekmail is tottally the best mail software11:40
LimCoreif only it would not crash, it outperforms every other about the feautures it has11:40
LimCore*available for linux11:41
Hobbseegood luck in making it not crash, then11:41
LimCorewell.. we must fix it11:41
Hobbseego on then11:41
* LimCore grabs a hammer11:42
LimCoreok what's next11:42
LimCoreas I said Im not qt nor kmail devel11:42
LimCoreit would take x10 more time to figure out heads and tails and to get started, for me, then for proper developer for this task to fix this bugs11:42
Hobbseeneither am i, but from what i've seen, kde offer good devel documents11:42
Hobbseewell, talk to the kmail developers, and offer them incentives so they'll prioritise it11:43
LimCoreare gay jokes ok on this channel?11:43
LimCoreperhaps every user should pay a bit11:43
Hobbseeor every user who cares about it, sure11:44
LimCoreI would totally pay 5 usd for working kmail11:44
Hobbseethen offer it to the kmail devs, and see what they say11:44
Hobbseebut that's a valid way of getting stuff fixed11:44
Hobbseeunfortunately, i think they frequent #kde-devel and whatever channels kmail has11:45
Hobbseeso you'll have to relay here how you go11:45
persiaAnd you might do better if you can find the 500 other people who would pay 5 USD for the feature and collect the monies in escrow before offering payment.11:45
LimCorecan someone sell kmail?11:45
LimCorebecause QT license (like 2000) seems an obsticle... or perhaps sell it as GPL still11:46
LimCoreunfortunatelly no way to bring kmail to windows.... or?11:46
* fujimitsu just reproduced bug 33012712:05
ubot4Launchpad bug 330127 in openobject-server "double entry in partners" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33012712:05
fujimitsukubuntu 9.10 x6412:09
persiafujimitsu: Well, it's confirmed already.  Just needs someone to track down ehy it's happening.12:14
persiaWithout frame 0, this tends to be hard :)12:14
* fujimitsu is preparing backtrace to add to 300127 report12:16
LimCorethunderbird fails to use openpgp: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/enigmail/+bug/50473812:28
ubot4LimCore: Error: This bug is private12:28
* LimCore unprivate's it12:28
LimCoreplease confirm it, I confirmed it with 3 people, and set importance? I belive it should be Medium? Since there is no good work around and it makes people use less secure methods when they want to be secure (openpgp)12:29
persiaIsn't this a well-known issue upstream?12:32
LimCoredunno, do you have any url?12:32
persiaNo.  In fact, I only found http://www.mozdev.org/pipermail/enigmail/2009-May/011158.html12:33
LimCore5777    nor  P3  All  patrick.brunschwig@gmx.net  RESO  FIXE  PGP/MIME Signed & encrypted Messages identified as "Decrypted" only (violates RFC3156)12:35
ubot4www.mozdev.org bug 5777 in GUI "PGP/MIME Signed & encrypted Messages identified as "Decrypted" only (violates RFC3156)" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]12:35
LimCore  ------- Comment  #19 From Patrick Brunschwig  2009-05-19 06:43:51  -------12:36
LimCoreA small miracle happened: fixed on trunk :-)12:36
LimCoreguys please please import that as fast as possible =)12:36
LimCorehow to set in that bug so that it links to mozdev.org tracker?  "Affect also distribution" ?12:38
fujimitsuwhats the -dbg for kmail12:38
LimCore-dbgsym ?12:39
persiaLimCore: Also affects project is for upstream links12:40
fujimitsui got kdelibs5-dbg but i see some symbols stil missing12:40
LimCorefujimitsu: you read what I written? :)12:42
fujimitsuyes, got it12:43
LimCoreHobbsee: perhaps that fix can be applied to thunderbird/enigmail to the current versions (before moving to TB 3, that is time consuimg because of enigmail incompatibilities)? then we could have it already in 9.10 and quite soon, hopefully?12:43
LimCorefujimitsu: are you debugging something in kmail?12:44
fujimitsuyour bug12:47
LimCorebug 30012712:47
ubot4Launchpad bug 300127 in kdepim "crash when selecting email when input-passphrase/pin (OpenPGP) window is open and then canceled" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30012712:47
LimCoreso you did reproduce it?12:48
LimCoreanything more usefull can be provided then backtrace?12:48
LimCorewe could valgrid it I guess12:49
persiavalgrind is only useful if it's a memory leak.12:49
LimCoreor bad ptr deref12:49
LimCoreof unitilaized mem access.. its quite usefull. I will just valgrid it for fun12:50
fujimitsukmail just forgot my account after crash too12:50
LimCorehaha owned12:50
LimCoreI love when this happes. Happened like 10 times to me.. over the years.12:51
fujimitsuindeed.. at least pgp decryption worked as expected tho12:51
LimCoreit loosed your templates too, if you had custom =)12:51
fujimitsushould i say gpg anyway12:51
LimCorewhat is speciall about Ubuntu are meta bugs - bugs seen WHILE reporting other buggs. My personal best is quadruple bug12:51
fujimitsuLimCore: also .. kgpg is crashes on start .. you mentioned an unrelated bug about it yesterday too12:53
LimCoreyes I did \o/12:54
LimCoreI wish I could get a quoter every time I hit a bug.12:54
LimCorethen I could totally sponsor rewritting of kmail12:54
fujimitsulooks like there is some work to be done there, yes12:55
LimCorebtw new bug: kmail fails to run if in valgrind12:55
LimCoreprobaby it takes too long and DBus times out or something12:55
LimCorefujimitsu: if you lost account settings, perhaps you wish to relate to bug 45920612:59
ubot4Launchpad bug 459206 in kdepim "Setting up new account is time consuming bullshit" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45920612:59
fujimitsuit's just a few keystrokes.. more annoyance than time-consuming really13:00
LimCore /if/ you know the process allready. Try it with newbie13:01
LimCoreanyway its indeed upstream-only concern13:01
persiaLimCore: I don't suppose you'd edt that bug title to be family-friendly?13:03
persiaThanks :)13:03
LimCoreI just did before you written :)13:04
persiaReading my mind is always the best way to make me say Thanks so quickly :)13:05
* fujimitsu installs kdepim-dbg13:15
fujimitsualright.. looks like i got all symbols now ..13:21
LimCorewhat the....14:14
LimCoresorting of columns does not work.. in kde in general??  Fails in kmail and in kgpg. Clicking on column header does not sort14:14
LimCorefujimitsu: kmail:  does clicking on colu,mn headrs in messages view changes sorting order? should it?  im using some advanced view there in kmail.    Same question for kgpg14:29
fujimitsuLimCore: not sure what you mean.. also, kgpg does not run for me14:36
fujimitsuhowever, if sorting order is not changed by function, guess it shouldnt14:37
LimCorefujimitsu: you are unable to at all start kgpg/14:48
LimCorewhat are QA teams doing...  perhaps there is some systemic fix to that, like better organization in some way14:49
fujimitsuit crashes on start. dont even get to see its interface14:50
* LimCore hands fujimitsu a POLL [ ] lolololol [ ] totall fail [ ] I'm speachless14:50
LimCoreIm now in the 3rd phase, Im speachless14:50
HobbseeLimCore: tis probably doable.14:50
Hobbseespeechless, and apparently without a dictionary ;)14:50
JontheEchidnakgpg hides it's systray icon by default. make sure you're just not missing it14:51
LimCoreHobbsee: was it as bad with 8.10?  I thought overall I had not su really really many bugs14:51
LimCorefujimitsu: it is not just traybared is it? ;)14:51
HobbseeLimCore: i've never found any of the releases terribly buggy (er, excluding some intel fun on one of the releases).  As for kmail and kdepim, i don't think a lot of attention is put in to them, and i don't think most people use them14:51
LimCoreHobbsee: do you really want me to open konversation integrate ispell wish bug ;)14:51
LimCorewhat do people use then???14:52
LimCorekmail is most advanced emali client we have14:52
Hobbseethunderbird, it seems14:52
LimCoreif we want business and professionals to use linux we must improve14:52
fujimitsuJontheEchidna: you were right.. taskbar is a bit fuzzy to read .. application is there14:52
jpdsThunderbird, Evolution, ...14:52
LimCorewell thunder is MUCH more plimited14:52
LimCorejpds: kmail seems more advance in every way14:53
jpdsLimCore: </opinion>14:53
Hobbseemost people also don't test with kubuntu, as most people run ubuntu, too14:53
fujimitsubut why go to taskbar on start, seems counter intuitive to me as you can tell14:53
LimCorejpds: facts,  templates;  openpgp14:53
LimCorefujimitsu: that is in fact consusing around 10 of 10 people I seen14:53
Hobbseeand if you're going to file konversation bugs, file them upstream ;)14:53
LimCorelets make kgpg not traybar on start14:53
LimCorealso it is a problem for no-traybar / no desktop manager setups (like ssh -X)14:54
LimCorewell I never got this kubuntu / ubuntu nonsense14:55
LimCorewhat is the difference?14:55
Hobbseehave you heard of this thing called gnome?14:55
LimCoreif I use some apps from KDE then this makes me Kubuntu user? what the14:55
LimCoreI run gnome WM. or kde, or I swithc them. I run some apps from gnome some from kde14:55
LimCoreso Im ubuntu or kubuntu user14:55
Hobbseemost people on ubuntu don't tend to run kde apps14:56
Hobbseei happen to, but most don't14:56
Hobbseewell, using gnome, anyway14:56
LimCorewhy not run very good applications?  what does it count what tools given program uses?14:56
LimCorethis makes 0 sense to me14:56
Hobbseepersonal preference?14:57
fujimitsuits about presentation.. you dont serve wine in a beer mug14:57
LimCorewhat is this, some "rasism" about software applications? How can anyone base decission to use tool X or Y based on tools it uses??? (Apart from embbed). This is least resonable thing I heared here in 2009-201014:58
fujimitsuhence kwin for qt drinks and gnome for gtk drinks.. makes sense14:58
fujimitsukwin on gnome looks ugly14:58
LimCoreyou would base decission to use X or Y based on it's looks?  :O14:59
jpdsLimCore: Easier to support a common toolkit on one?14:59
fujimitsuLimCore: i am all for consistency .. yes14:59
LimCoreso.. discard awesome tools because they use kde?14:59
fujimitsuyou can mix and match all you want but thats a personal choice ..15:00
LimCoreI hope other users have more sense15:00
LimCorewe have awesome programs like kmail and krusader (although buggy) but Ubutnu should do things to invite people to try them out.. not this "omg its kde.. not want"15:01
LimCoreother programs, for email, seem x2 less advance, like some 2000 year software and/or written by amishes by comparsion - missing functions, options, detaikls15:01
* Hobbsee notes that this has gone extremely far from the topic of the channel, and has turned into a rant15:02
LimCoreok then, we should invest more efforts in fixing the program that clearly is most advanced email client - kmail;  If that statement is not obvious then I can make it more specyfic15:05
Hobbseethen i wish you luck in fixing it15:06
jpdsLimCore: apt-get source kmail - it's all there if you want to fix it.15:07
bddebianGo home thekorn :)15:08
thekornbddebian, bah, it's Friday! you are  two hours too late ;)15:11
bddebianDoh :)15:12
fujimitsuso, kgpg seems to be in taskbar but it does not responde on click. instead one must look for its systray icon to bring it up .. thats what am having here15:16
fujimitsuand since its hidden, then one could think application did not start at all15:20
fujimitsutop doesnt even list it as a running process as far as i can tell15:21
LimCorefujimitsu: all users EVER that I told to run kgpg, always responded - I did but it did not start. Open a bug,  I can confirm it15:23
fujimitsukde is wierd15:23
LimCorethis strange behaviour is unique to kgpg15:24
fujimitsupretty, yes.. but weird behaviour15:24
fujimitsuso much for security thru obscurity15:25
JontheEchidnabug 47069515:25
ubot4Launchpad bug 470695 in kdeutils "Kgpg doesn't run by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47069515:25
JontheEchidnait's not on purpose, I can tell you that15:25
JontheEchidnathere's a bug at kde's tracker too15:26
fujimitsutask bar should be easier to read15:26
fujimitsu<-- kde4.3 here15:27
fujimitsumore like, its systray15:27
LimCorecan we set priority of that bug>15:28
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
fujimitsugdb just reported "/usr/bin/chromium-browser": not in executable format: File format not recognized17:35
fujimitsuwierdly enough, it looked like wine was trying to open it for a second, of course it didnt succeed either17:38
fujimitsuand this was after i reinstalled chromium via kpackagekit too17:40
fujimitsuit was null before that, so i thought i'd try reinstalling17:40
hggdhfujimitsu: check is /usr/bin/chromium-browser is a real binary -- it might be a shell script, eventually calling the real binary. You cannot GDB a shell script...17:41
hggdhand I have seen that with some packages17:41
fujimitsuwell.. i was using chromium fine today.. suddenly this happens..17:42
hggdhheh. EXT4?17:42
fujimitsui checked the path, file was present but wouldnt run17:44
hggdhfujimitsu: what *type* of file is it? run ' file /usr/bin/...>' on it17:47
yofelhggdh: shell script17:48
hggdhyofel: thanks17:48
yofelfujimitsu: please run 'chromium-browser -g' if you want to run it in gdb17:48
yofel(it will start gdb itself)17:48
hggdhfujimitsu: run ' sh -x /usr/bin/<whatever>'  and see where it fails before that17:48
hggdhmay very well be a shell issue17:49
fujimitsuInconsistency detected by ld.so: dl-minimal.c: 138: realloc: Assertion `ptr == alloc_last_block' failed!17:51
asacthats known17:54
asacregression in todays daily17:54
asacfta is on it17:54
asacno solution in sight thouh17:54
fujimitsuvery well.. i'll back down from bug reporting then17:55
asaci will try to get a chromium bug id17:55
fujimitsuasac: think it good idea to remove and install tomorrow ?17:56
asacstar that bug (dont comment)17:56
asacfujimitsu: ^^17:57
fujimitsugot it17:57
greg-ghah "Ack, sorry, this bug had so many useless comments I missed that this occurs on18:23
greg-gmultiple systems."18:23
hggdher, what? ;-)18:27
ThingymebobI'm trying to get #503548 exactly where it belongs, I'm pretty sure its a xorg/nv issue. How do I determine which is the problem18:47
yofelThingymebob: please post bug numbers as 'bug 503548' so the bot can fetch it please ;)18:53
ubot4Launchpad bug 503548 in indicator-applet "'Switch user' option performs 'Lock screen' action" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50354818:53
yofel(so that we know what you're talking about)18:53
Thingymebobyofel thanks for the tip18:57
=== vish is now known as mac_v
=== mac_v is now known as vish
=== asac_ is now known as asac
WeatherGodI need to flag someone down to take a look at a bug report I have been working on for a while now21:43
WeatherGodI am not sure where the fault is, but it is a problem with mounting a CDROM drive21:43
WeatherGodit is a regression bug, at the very least21:44
WeatherGodbug 47896221:44
ubot4Launchpad bug 478962 in linux "After upgrade to Karmic, CD/DVD drive no longer works" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47896221:44
WeatherGodI finally got the user to get their system fully updated and got an apport-collect of device-kit21:45
charlie-tcathe cd's should be there, they just won't show up on desktop or in /media if they are audio cd's21:46
WeatherGodis that a new behavior?21:46
charlie-tcayes, in karmic21:46
* WeatherGod slaps forehead21:47
WeatherGodso, how does it appear for rhythmbox?21:47
charlie-tcaI believe we saw the cd on the desktop in jaunty, but in karmic, you don't see nothing and can't see them21:47
charlie-tcaI don't use it. for exaile and listen, you have to tell it to go to the disk itself, then it will show you the songs on it21:48
WeatherGodthe user is around 70 years old...21:48
WeatherGodI gotta make it a very simple explanation for her21:48
charlie-tcaI thought they fixed all the missing cd bugs after the release. Even brassero will now burn images again, but the blank no longer shows up on the desktop.21:49
WeatherGodI don't have a optical drive for my Ubuntu machine, so I don't know what sort of issues are happening for this21:50
charlie-tcalet me call up rhythmbox and check it for you21:53
charlie-tcaWeatherGod: I think the bug is valid. According to help, "When an Audio CD is inserted, it will appear in the side pane", but it does not appear. I can't get rhythmbox to play the cd.22:05
charlie-tcaoops, found it.22:05
charlie-tcaYou have to click on Music in the left pane, then import file, then click on the cd in the file manager that opens. Then the cd will appear under devices. then click the cd and the tracks appear in rhythmbox.22:07
WeatherGodyou have got to be kidding me22:07
charlie-tcaIt does not automatically show the cd22:07
charlie-tcaI just did it22:07
charlie-tcayes, it is not easy22:07
WeatherGodand this is supposed to be user-friendly how?22:07
charlie-tcaI don't know, it took me 6 months to get exaile to play anything22:08
WeatherGodis exaile something new (never heard of it)22:08
crimsunufft, it took me six years to get sound working </troll>22:08
WeatherGodand you still have a long ways to go, crimsun22:09
WeatherGodyour drivers are still farting at the children22:09
crimsunaye, I need to make them release eggs to the face, too22:09
charlie-tcaWe use exaile in Xubuntu22:10
* charlie-tca thinks crimsun can make any sound work22:10
WeatherGodanyway... those instructions are completely unacceptable for me to give to a 70-year old gardener22:10
WeatherGodnot a rant on you, of course... just rhythmbox22:10
charlie-tcaWell.... that is how to make it work. that makes the bug more wishlist for easier usability.22:11
charlie-tcaIt does make life harder, though22:11
charlie-tcaWorst part - help doesn't help22:11
WeatherGodI wonder why this behavior started, though...22:11
WeatherGodmaybe something to do with removal of HAL?22:12
hggdhwell, we can always look at this as an usability issue -- then it is a real bug (i.e., not wishlist)22:15
WeatherGodI agree22:16
* hggdh is personally *very* happy crimsun has not given up on sound22:16
WeatherGodI am giving the user a set of instructions for her to follow, with the explanation that we know this to not be ideal22:16
hggdhWeatherGod: please remember to set it as a workaround ;-)22:17
WeatherGodthat way, we can at least confirm the issue at hand22:17
WeatherGodhggdh: in the summary, you mean?22:17
=== lolcat is now known as SquishyD
WeatherGodcharlie-tca: just to clear up the instructions...22:23
WeatherGodyou say to click on the CD in the file selection dialog22:23
WeatherGodthat is in the panel on the left22:23
WeatherGodthen do you select "Open"?22:24
charlie-tcano, wait a minute and we will go through it22:24
charlie-tcaput the cd in the drive; nothing happens that the user can see.22:24
charlie-tcaopen rhythmbox22:24
jibelbdmurray, hi22:25
jibelbdmurray, there's a small issue with the latest firefox_lp_improvements22:25
charlie-tcaclick "Music" in the left panel22:26
charlie-tcaright click22:26
jibelbdmurray, could you please check bug 50495622:26
ubot4Launchpad bug 504956 in launchpad-gm-scripts "partially hidden comment in bug report" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50495622:26
charlie-tcathen left-click "Import file"22:26
WeatherGodok, with you so far22:27
charlie-tcaa file manager will open; on the left panel, left-click the "Audio Disc"22:27
charlie-tcaThen left-click "Open¨22:27
charlie-tcaNow in Rhythmbox, in the left pane, is a new item "Devices" with a cd image under it22:28
WeatherGodok, just wanted to make sure...22:28
WeatherGodgood to double-check these things22:28
charlie-tcaleft-click the disc image, and the tracks appear in the right pane22:29
bdmurrayjibel: I am looking at it now, that's quite odd22:29
charlie-tcanow you can click the track you want and left-click play22:29
charlie-tcawhat a nightmare22:29
charlie-tcaTo close it, you have to click the speakers in the system tray; right click it and left click on "quit"22:30
WeatherGodwell, that's normal for Rhythmbox22:31
WeatherGodI wonder if you have to do that for every change of CD22:31
WeatherGodeven if you don't shutdown rhythmbox22:31
charlie-tcalet's see22:33
xteejxhey guys22:33
xteejxI'm looking at bug 96676 in gnome-terminal, its been reported upstream, has been a problem since Edgy and upstream haven't done anything with it, although the gnome bugtracker has been updated to include karmic as affected....help?22:35
ubot4Launchpad bug 96676 in vte "function keys don't work in gnome-terminal" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9667622:35
charlie-tcaI pulled the cd, and put in a new one, now I have to go through the same procedure to get to it. The speaker box is still in system tray, though22:35
charlie-tcaxteejx: they still don't work?22:35
xteejxcharlie-tca: apparently not :(22:36
charlie-tcaswitch to xfce4-terminal, they work there as far as I know22:37
xteejxcharlie-tca: nice idea, but it doesn't help the bug report, i'm just wondering how to continue the triage of this22:37
xteejxits been a while22:37
charlie-tcasure has. Any way to push gnome team on it?22:40
charlie-tcaLooks like they have to take action first.22:41
xteejxhavent a clue, ive updated the bug report22:41
xteejxthe one on the gnome bugtracker i mean22:41
charlie-tcaThat should help.22:42
xteejxi updated it almost 4 months ago stating that karmic was affected with 2.28 gnome release22:43
xteejxnothing's been touched22:43
xteejxGNOME bug 42546222:43
ubot4Gnome bug 425462 in VteTerminal "function keys don't work in gnome-terminal" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42546222:43
xteejx2 months ago**22:43
charlie-tcaThey might consider a low priority22:44
xteejxhmmm or forgot about it22:44
xteejxno-one awake in #gnome :(22:50

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!