[00:08] yofel: updated [00:09] * yofel goes testing... [00:10] bdmurray: thx :D [00:10] no problem [00:10] I'd always just used the collect it one for kernel bugs [00:10] depending on the release [00:11] which until now really was the better choice [00:12] well, the new kernel response is pretty much a merge between the old one, the kernel policy page, and the collect it response [00:19] Is it going overboard making my potential mentees appear on IRC and chat with me in this room to start with before accepting them as mentees? [00:21] micahg: new firefox-lp-improvements uploading too [00:21] bcurtiswx: not necessarily, though it may be unduly burdensome [00:21] bdmurray: will it fix the edit issue, I had to disable that [00:21] bcurtiswx: after all you set the grounds on which you mentor them [00:21] bcurtiswx: I don't think it makes sense for everyone to require that, but if you need confirmation that you can interact with them on IRC in order to be comfortable the mentorship will be successful, it makes sense to do that. [00:21] it fixes the ajax issue but still changes it on the +edit url [00:21] I'm working on that too [00:22] Thats the easiest way to get help anytime on triaging... I think its extremely important... so i guess its ok. [00:22] i don't want to be a burden to them if I'm not available and they want some help... ya know... having them know this is a great place for help is good [00:23] bcurtiswx: Depends on the nature of the mentorship. I once had a very successful (MOTU) mentorship that was done almost entirely via email. The individual concerned now uses IRC *lots*, but was uncomfortable with it at first. [00:23] bdmurray: that's good enough for me right now [00:23] micahg: me too! ;-) [00:23] But, yeah, stressing that this is the place to come is a good idea :) [00:23] persia: good point, this person has an irc account tho.. so i can assume some general familiarity [00:23] thanks bdmurray [00:24] micahg: well it was rather embarassing :-( [00:31] bcurtiswx: the major gain is for them to realise anyone here can help [00:31] hggdh: Yup, thats what I hope to get them to realize === ryanakca_ is now known as ryanakca [02:24] I was wondering... would it be a good future request, to have a clipboard in gnome? So that copy/paste would work [02:24] for example like the current one, but instead one that actually works (even if source copy application was closed) [02:25] LimCore: glipper [02:27] micahg: why... WHY why it's not on by default? [02:27] LimCore: idk [02:27] human being do not want to search that information, and they really are totally irritated when they copied very important data to clipboard, closed source application (not saved) and... it's gone [02:28] LimCore: well, there's a bug about making the apps follow the freedesktop standard [02:28] which I think you've seen [02:28] which one? [02:28] bug 11334 [02:28] Launchpad bug 11334 in ubuntu "MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11334 [02:29] oh right. Well, it was indeed an epic fail even in 2009. 2010, still not fixed [02:29] LimCore: it's in universe [02:29] LimCore: it's been fixed in FF trunk [02:30] ff? [02:30] Firefox [02:30] but it's not about firefox [02:30] its about gnome overall [02:30] well if each app followed the standard, you wouldn't need a separate clipboard manager [02:30] huhm [02:30] well to be honest, as an I user, I couldn't care less [02:31] and I think most users will share this position, we would like it just working [02:31] There isn't a magic wand we can wave to fix all bugs, you know this. [02:31] LimCore: maybe you should file a Main inclusion request for glipper if it does what you want and you think it would benefit a lot of users [02:31] how about enabling this extra clipboard app, by default, or doing What Ever Is Needed - at least for now? [02:31] LimCore: it's in universe, so it can't be on the CD [02:32] Pici: but here it appears what is missing, is a decission, to include it [02:32] micahg: well.. I don't care about the CD.. it can install as soon as I have internet (or - for 99% of users - install from internet during main installation) [02:33] LimCore: I don't think any of the universe packages are installed by default [02:33] but I can't say for sure [02:33] * LimCore installs this glipper [02:34] what i like here, is that this is again DOUBLE-BUG :) [02:34] i.e.: I found a bug, /while/ reporting /another bug/ [02:35] back to the original bug though [02:35] A crash-bug I reported on.. 2008-11-20 .. was marked fixed.. but it AGAIN is the case! and 100% reproducable [02:35] what should I do? [02:37] bug 300127 [02:37] Launchpad bug 300127 in kdepim "crash when selecting email when input-passphrase/pin (OpenPGP) window is open and then canceled" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300127 [02:39] That's something deeper: I've had a number of hangs when dismissing the gpg-agent [02:40] persia: this is same bug as before - same bugtrace: parseMsg() and below; and that bug was it seems in kmail itself [02:40] but comment on that bug and on KDE bug please; I will reopen KDE bug too [02:40] LimCore: why not talk to the person who marked it fixed [02:40] before you reopen [02:40] because then people ban me everywhere :< lol [02:41] Nah, if you've a backtrace in kmail, it's better to fix that, rather than rely on anecdotal evidence. I'm not confident enough about my behaviour to have a bug yet. [02:41] nah ok, I will also ask him. Well but why wait with reopening, obvioyusly there is the bug, and people then can at least find it and comment it instead of dupl. [02:41] LimCore: let me see if I can grab him to come in here [02:42] * LimCore apt-get installs ispell-polish-curses [02:42] btw, is "wtf" considered bad language in this channel or not? [02:42] hi [02:42] hello [02:42] LimCore: talk [02:42] JontheEchidna: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/300127 seems to happen again [02:43] Launchpad bug 300127 in kdepim "crash when selecting email when input-passphrase/pin (OpenPGP) window is open and then canceled" [Undecided,Confirmed] [02:43] same back trace of the bug - kmail crashes under parseMsg() in parse ID or body(). That bug was makred fixed, but now it happens again, always, in identical conditions, and it crashes in identical way [02:44] Im now on up to date ubuntu 9.10 - Version 4.3.2 (KDE 4.3.2) [02:45] probably http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=180741 [02:45] KDE bug 180741 in general "crash in kmail (typeinfo name for, KMReaderWin::parseMsg)" [Crash,New] [02:48] well [02:48] then that 180741 appears to be a duplicate of [02:48] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125512#c9 [02:48] KDE bug 125512 in general "KMail crashes if selecting anothe mail while being prompted for password" [Crash,Resolved: fixed] [02:48] (from year 2007.......) [02:49] updateReaderWin -> displayMessage -> parseMsg same bug since 2007? [02:50] It would appear so, I suppose [02:50] oh my [02:50] * LimCore totally facepamls [02:50] how to get this bug fixed then? [02:51] Try the same patch that fixed it last time, and if that works, track down why it got unapplied, and try to come up with something that solves both issues. [02:51] cool, except, Im not qt developer [02:51] Many recurring bugs happen because there are two behaviours which are bad in certain corner cases, and the bits get flipped back and forth. [02:52] Don't need to be: just hunt down the revision that closed the original bug, and extract that patch. Apply it. [02:52] If it doesn't work, then maybe you need to be a qt developer, but if it works, you can track down the unapply, and add a lot of useful information to the bug for the qt developer who ends up fixing it. [02:53] and how to do such bisection comfortably on Ubuntu? [02:53] I can't reproduce this bug even now, though. the KMail interface doesn't seem to respond when the pinentry dialog is open [02:53] by comfortably, I mean Im having not much own time [02:53] which is why I closed the upstream bug 5 months ago (there wasn't a patch) [02:53] JontheEchidna: I open pinentry, try to click in kmail, try to close it, then close pinentry. Try doing it few times, try alt+tab around, try closing windows, it works [02:53] JontheEchidna: Bug 5 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/5 is private [02:54] JontheEchidna: you closed the bug without "fixing it", just because you could not reproduce? but it was makred fix released? [02:56] WEll, it's not like I thought you or anybody else was lying when they said they could access other mails when the pinentry dialog was open [02:56] and if then, in KDE 4.3, I could not access other mails while pinentry was open... [02:57] that is right, I can not access other email with pinentry ,thought still it crashes. it seems that TRYING to acces it causes crash [02:57] try defocusing pinetry with alt+tab, click around a lot, try closing kmail [02:58] btw there are more bugs about kmail and pgp [02:59] I would really like to have an OpenPGP client in ubuntu that actually is polished and works [03:05] I think instead updating bug trackers, just someone with Qt and kmail knowledge must look at this [03:10] LimCore: Perhaps you could clearly document the steps to reproduce, given the treatment of the last bug. If the developer can reproduce, there's a *much* higher chance it can be fixed. [03:16] ok I thinkg we have some more info [03:25] JontheEchidna: insturction how to reproduce more easly: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=180741#c59 [03:25] KDE bug 180741 in general "crash in kmail (typeinfo name for, KMReaderWin::parseMsg)" [Crash,New] === dous_ is now known as dous [03:40] perhaps ubuntu can get its funds and aid development of most critical apps [03:40] like, to have one really good email clients [03:40] kmail would be perfect.. but it has few bugs. Similar as krusader would be perfect file manager [03:41] Um, "Ubuntu" doesn't really have funds, per se. The Ubuntu Foundation has funds, but those are in trust for the future if unexpected things happen. [03:42] For now, Ubuntu is entirely based on volunteer and sponsored activities. [03:42] But Ubuntu doesn't control what sponsors choose to sponsor. [03:43] how to quickly set up environment to build current version of kmail and try to fix something in it? [03:43] !sbuild [03:43] sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment. To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto [03:43] !pbuilder [03:43] pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto [03:43] Install one of those, apt-get source kmail, fiddle the source, and build. [03:43] I think 90% of developers will not help, because they do not have time for entry cost [03:43] Ask in #kubuntu-devel if you need help mangling the source [03:44] I feel like it will take 100 hours to get to know the tools and libs, and 5 to fix the bug [03:44] (maybe there's a better channel, but #kubuntu-devel can point you there better than I) [03:44] seems to be obstibcle for foss model [03:54] LimCore: 'ubuntu' actually already has a couple of pretty reasonable email apps. your issue is with kubuntu [03:54] fwiw [03:59] LimCore: that being said, you can easily run things like thunderbird on kubuntu, which I found behaved better than kmail [04:02] LimCore: are you running kubuntu? === Flare183_ is now known as Flare183 [07:54] good morning bugsquad [08:36] Hobbsee: micahg: I tested thunderbird (and evolution some time ago) they are not advanced enough, only kmail provides some functionallity. Functionallity that I look for was for example provided, around 8 years ago, before I was even using linux, by program "thebat" for example. Now best what linux offers doesnt do even 60% of that function, and closest application that is usable for business (kmail) have lots of bugs, from which one [08:36] crashbug exists since 2006 [08:38] LimCore_: you have to understand that projects cannot get to all bugs, unless there is either a lot of people asking for it, the bug affect a lot of people, or the developer wants to fix it, it probably will not get attention. That's why patches are always welcome, there are not enough developer hours to fix every bug [08:40] micahg: the bug in question have over 6 duplicates on bugs.kde.org, and was reporetd/commented by a lot of people there and in ubuntu and probably in other places too [08:41] you say patches, ok [08:41] lets look how it will go [08:41] LimCore_: it seems like the steps to reproduce were not clear enough to warrant it having been closed [08:41] * micahg scrolls up to see how your conversation went [08:41] I will be learning QT, including tricks and kludges (since this is causing bug) for 80 hours [08:41] I will be learning internals of kmail for 40 hours [08:41] then I will fix the bug in 5 hours [08:42] 125 vs 5 is why I makes not too much sence that I fix it [08:42] and that is the optimistic version [08:43] I belive most developers are in simillar positon; if they now the tools and libs, they still need to learn the entire application inner-workings [08:45] LimCore_: that's usually not necessary if the patch already exists like was suggested to you earler [08:45] you can use the debian build system to apply the patch [08:46] LimCore_: BTW, thunderbird and enigmail work great together [08:47] * micahg hopes to have enigmail updated for lucid with TB3 [08:47] but it turned out it was never patched, just that for JontheEchidna the bug did not happen, and it appeared that the source of bug (selecting other msg while pinentry is open) is removed. (but it turns out just TRYING to select other msg also causes crash) [08:47] micahg: now, they fail [08:47] s/now/no [08:47] want to debug it with me actually? [08:47] I was recommending coworhers to use TB, but we turned out it fails with PGP, so I was going to recommend kmail but it crashes all the time, so what should I now recommend, windows? ;) [08:48] LimCore_: yes, because the steps to reproduce weren't clear enough for him to conclude the bug wasn't fixed...wfm is a common resolution in bug trackers [08:48] *coworkers (lol) [08:48] LimCore_: I used it with PGP in Ubuntu, TB2 + enigmail from repos [08:48] worked great [08:48] micahg: do you want to debug Thunderbird PGP bug? [08:48] LimCore_: sure, when I'm a little more awake [08:49] LimCore_: what tz are you in? [08:49] thunderbird-sometimes-sends-attachments-outside-of-encr-signed-part and thunderbird-does-not-show-that-message-from-kmail-was-signed [08:49] almost 10:00 in the morning here [08:49] k, so your UTC +1 [08:49] LimCore_: let's see if TB3 + enigmail works for you [08:50] do you have 64 bit or 32 bit? [09:16] 64b [09:16] micahg: what is your email? [09:16] my nick at ubuntu dot com [09:18] * LimCore_ just crashed kmail again \o [09:18] lets try again. [09:20] micahg: example information I sent you is of course confidential etc etc (so not to waste time bluring out stuff) [09:21] of course [09:23] sent [09:24] it would appear that emails with PGP can be either inline PGP or PGP/MIME. [09:24] with inline/PGP - the attachments are not sig+encr (as it is by definition) [09:24] with PGP/MIME, thunderbird is not showing if given decrytped message was signed or unsigned [09:24] so neither way works fully it would seem [09:25] LimCore_: my guess is it depends how enigmail is configured [09:25] in that email I just sent you, probably first message appears ok (encr+sign attach) because it was PGP/MIME then [09:25] all is on clean system, on default config [09:25] LimCore_: do you have 32 bit or 64 bit? [09:25] 9.10 [09:25] 64 [09:25] for box with kmail and for box with thunderbird [09:26] is my understanding of inline PGP versus PGP/MIME above correct? [09:26] Hobbsee: btw, Thunderbird is dissqualified for me for not having: 1) good templates 2) always-CC-to field (only always-BCC-to exists.. why they could not done it fully) [09:28] LimCore_: TB3 has a lot of enhancements, almost 3 years of development [09:28] how to use that in our 9.10 ubuntu? [09:28] unfortunately, since you're using 64 bit, you'll have to wait until I can get a 64 bit enigmail packaged [09:28] upstream only does 32 bit [09:28] ITS YOU! /me sets up a bomb [09:29] well, if you do it I can help testing ;) [09:29] LimCore_: I have a PPA with a test build of the final version of TB3, but it's still called shredder [09:29] shredder? not stable? [09:33] LimCore_: it's the stable version, just w/out the branding [09:33] I'm working on that too [09:38] branding? [09:38] you think I care about some logo, for my work? :) [09:38] if thats the only problem with it, then its not any problem [09:40] LimCore_: that's the only thing missing from it [09:40] but we don't have 64 bit enigmail yet [09:42] uhm [09:42] where it can be ready? [09:42] will that go into ubuntu 9.10 once done? [09:44] LimCore_: idk if it'll go into 9.10, but for sure in Lucid [09:44] we might have a PPA for it [09:45] about enigmail.. is it possible to use your TB, and install enigmal "as on windows" so get this plugin thingy and then import plugin in the TB? [09:45] LimCore_: not on 64 bit [09:46] on 32 bit you can use the version from addons.mozilla.org [09:48] and mozilla.org is not providing 64b...? [09:49] LimCore_: no, it needs to be compiles against some things, it's not a normal extension [10:32] I like to report a bug against a working but not recognized webcam (i.e. described using "UVC Camera" instead "$Vendor $Model"): do I've to open it against udev or .... ? [10:33] elleuca: Actually, that's the kind of bug report we handle very badly, unfortunately. [10:34] If lsusb gives the right vendor and model, you might report it against the application you're using. [10:34] if lsusb doesn't give the right model, you want to report it to the usb device list maintainer [10:34] * persia hunts [10:34] persia: yes, only the model is missing [10:35] http://www.linux-usb.org/usb-ids.html has the instructions for submitting data to the USB ID repo. [10:35] OK, thanks [10:35] It may take some time for it to get to Ubuntu. [10:37] I'll hack usb.ids meanwhile ;) [10:38] Heh. I usually just leave working but unidentified stuff alone after submitting. There's a small (but significant) pleasure in having it be suddenly recognised after an upgrade and knowing it was me. [10:38] :D [10:58] I debugged some more [10:58] Hobbsee: thunderbird is not usable for OpenPGP - it fails to show that message is Signed, for sig+encr messages that are in the PGP/MIME format (that is prefered, and that is only format that will work for attachments) [11:19] LimCore: are you using the relevant extension? [11:21] LimCore: given the number of bugs you seem to find in kmail, it would probably be worth you learning it to fix them [11:31] Hobbsee: I just spend half our of mine and coworker's time to fully debug and document thigs bug. This is bug in thunderbird. Stand by for the report [11:31] (fully - from user side so far) [11:31] reminds me, i should file my bug on thunderbird. wonder where my login details to their bugzilla are [11:32] and this bug makes thunderbird totally useless for OpenPGP [11:36] oh, nice, enigmail is updated for thunderbird 3.0 [11:39] and it crashes. drat [11:40] *cought*youdon'tsay*cought* [11:40] ah well. works better for me than the other email software [11:40] kmail is tottally the best mail software [11:40] if only it would not crash, it outperforms every other about the feautures it has [11:41] *available for linux [11:41] good luck in making it not crash, then [11:41] well.. we must fix it [11:41] go on then [11:42] * LimCore grabs a hammer [11:42] ok what's next [11:42] as I said Im not qt nor kmail devel [11:42] it would take x10 more time to figure out heads and tails and to get started, for me, then for proper developer for this task to fix this bugs [11:42] neither am i, but from what i've seen, kde offer good devel documents [11:43] well, talk to the kmail developers, and offer them incentives so they'll prioritise it [11:43] are gay jokes ok on this channel? [11:43] No. [11:43] perhaps every user should pay a bit [11:44] or every user who cares about it, sure [11:44] I would totally pay 5 usd for working kmail [11:44] then offer it to the kmail devs, and see what they say [11:44] but that's a valid way of getting stuff fixed [11:45] unfortunately, i think they frequent #kde-devel and whatever channels kmail has [11:45] so you'll have to relay here how you go [11:45] And you might do better if you can find the 500 other people who would pay 5 USD for the feature and collect the monies in escrow before offering payment. [11:45] can someone sell kmail? [11:46] because QT license (like 2000) seems an obsticle... or perhaps sell it as GPL still [11:46] unfortunatelly no way to bring kmail to windows.... or? [12:05] * fujimitsu just reproduced bug 330127 [12:05] Launchpad bug 330127 in openobject-server "double entry in partners" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/330127 [12:06] 300127 [12:09] kubuntu 9.10 x64 [12:14] fujimitsu: Well, it's confirmed already. Just needs someone to track down ehy it's happening. [12:14] Without frame 0, this tends to be hard :) [12:16] * fujimitsu is preparing backtrace to add to 300127 report [12:28] thunderbird fails to use openpgp: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/enigmail/+bug/504738 [12:28] LimCore: Error: This bug is private [12:28] * LimCore unprivate's it [12:29] please confirm it, I confirmed it with 3 people, and set importance? I belive it should be Medium? Since there is no good work around and it makes people use less secure methods when they want to be secure (openpgp) [12:32] Isn't this a well-known issue upstream? [12:32] dunno, do you have any url? [12:33] No. In fact, I only found http://www.mozdev.org/pipermail/enigmail/2009-May/011158.html [12:35] known [12:35] 5777 nor P3 All patrick.brunschwig@gmx.net RESO FIXE PGP/MIME Signed & encrypted Messages identified as "Decrypted" only (violates RFC3156) [12:35] https://www.mozdev.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=5777 [12:35] www.mozdev.org bug 5777 in GUI "PGP/MIME Signed & encrypted Messages identified as "Decrypted" only (violates RFC3156)" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [12:36] ------- Comment #19 From Patrick Brunschwig 2009-05-19 06:43:51 ------- [12:36] A small miracle happened: fixed on trunk :-) [12:36] guys please please import that as fast as possible =) [12:38] how to set in that bug so that it links to mozdev.org tracker? "Affect also distribution" ? [12:38] whats the -dbg for kmail [12:39] -dbgsym ? [12:39] kmail-dbgsym [12:40] LimCore: Also affects project is for upstream links [12:40] i got kdelibs5-dbg but i see some symbols stil missing [12:42] fujimitsu: you read what I written? :) [12:43] yes, got it [12:43] Hobbsee: perhaps that fix can be applied to thunderbird/enigmail to the current versions (before moving to TB 3, that is time consuimg because of enigmail incompatibilities)? then we could have it already in 9.10 and quite soon, hopefully? [12:44] fujimitsu: are you debugging something in kmail? [12:47] 300127 [12:47] your bug [12:47] \o [12:47] bug 300127 [12:47] Launchpad bug 300127 in kdepim "crash when selecting email when input-passphrase/pin (OpenPGP) window is open and then canceled" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300127 [12:48] so you did reproduce it? [12:48] yes [12:48] anything more usefull can be provided then backtrace? [12:49] we could valgrid it I guess [12:49] valgrind is only useful if it's a memory leak. [12:49] or bad ptr deref [12:50] of unitilaized mem access.. its quite usefull. I will just valgrid it for fun [12:50] kmail just forgot my account after crash too [12:50] haha owned [12:51] I love when this happes. Happened like 10 times to me.. over the years. [12:51] indeed.. at least pgp decryption worked as expected tho [12:51] it loosed your templates too, if you had custom =) [12:51] should i say gpg anyway [12:51] what is speciall about Ubuntu are meta bugs - bugs seen WHILE reporting other buggs. My personal best is quadruple bug [12:53] LimCore: also .. kgpg is crashes on start .. you mentioned an unrelated bug about it yesterday too [12:54] yes I did \o/ [12:54] I wish I could get a quoter every time I hit a bug. [12:54] then I could totally sponsor rewritting of kmail [12:55] looks like there is some work to be done there, yes [12:55] btw new bug: kmail fails to run if in valgrind [12:55] probaby it takes too long and DBus times out or something [12:59] fujimitsu: if you lost account settings, perhaps you wish to relate to bug 459206 [12:59] Launchpad bug 459206 in kdepim "Setting up new account is time consuming bullshit" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459206 [13:00] it's just a few keystrokes.. more annoyance than time-consuming really [13:01] /if/ you know the process allready. Try it with newbie [13:01] anyway its indeed upstream-only concern [13:03] LimCore: I don't suppose you'd edt that bug title to be family-friendly? [13:03] Thanks :) [13:04] I just did before you written :) [13:05] Reading my mind is always the best way to make me say Thanks so quickly :) [13:15] * fujimitsu installs kdepim-dbg [13:21] alright.. looks like i got all symbols now .. [14:14] what the.... [14:14] guys... [14:14] sorting of columns does not work.. in kde in general?? Fails in kmail and in kgpg. Clicking on column header does not sort [14:29] fujimitsu: kmail: does clicking on colu,mn headrs in messages view changes sorting order? should it? im using some advanced view there in kmail. Same question for kgpg [14:36] LimCore: not sure what you mean.. also, kgpg does not run for me [14:37] however, if sorting order is not changed by function, guess it shouldnt [14:48] fujimitsu: you are unable to at all start kgpg/ [14:48] ? [14:49] what are QA teams doing... perhaps there is some systemic fix to that, like better organization in some way [14:50] it crashes on start. dont even get to see its interface [14:50] * LimCore hands fujimitsu a POLL [ ] lolololol [ ] totall fail [ ] I'm speachless [14:50] Im now in the 3rd phase, Im speachless [14:50] LimCore: tis probably doable. [14:50] speechless, and apparently without a dictionary ;) [14:51] kgpg hides it's systray icon by default. make sure you're just not missing it [14:51] Hobbsee: was it as bad with 8.10? I thought overall I had not su really really many bugs [14:51] fujimitsu: it is not just traybared is it? ;) [14:51] LimCore: i've never found any of the releases terribly buggy (er, excluding some intel fun on one of the releases). As for kmail and kdepim, i don't think a lot of attention is put in to them, and i don't think most people use them [14:51] Hobbsee: do you really want me to open konversation integrate ispell wish bug ;) [14:52] what do people use then??? [14:52] kmail is most advanced emali client we have [14:52] thunderbird, it seems [14:52] if we want business and professionals to use linux we must improve [14:52] JontheEchidna: you were right.. taskbar is a bit fuzzy to read .. application is there [14:52] Thunderbird, Evolution, ... [14:52] well thunder is MUCH more plimited [14:53] jpds: kmail seems more advance in every way [14:53] LimCore: [14:53] most people also don't test with kubuntu, as most people run ubuntu, too [14:53] but why go to taskbar on start, seems counter intuitive to me as you can tell [14:53] jpds: facts, templates; openpgp [14:53] fujimitsu: that is in fact consusing around 10 of 10 people I seen [14:53] and if you're going to file konversation bugs, file them upstream ;) [14:53] lets make kgpg not traybar on start [14:54] also it is a problem for no-traybar / no desktop manager setups (like ssh -X) [14:55] well I never got this kubuntu / ubuntu nonsense [14:55] what is the difference? [14:55] have you heard of this thing called gnome? [14:55] if I use some apps from KDE then this makes me Kubuntu user? what the [14:55] I run gnome WM. or kde, or I swithc them. I run some apps from gnome some from kde [14:55] so Im ubuntu or kubuntu user [14:56] most people on ubuntu don't tend to run kde apps [14:56] .... [14:56] i happen to, but most don't [14:56] well, using gnome, anyway [14:56] why not run very good applications? what does it count what tools given program uses? [14:56] this makes 0 sense to me [14:57] personal preference? [14:57] its about presentation.. you dont serve wine in a beer mug [14:58] what is this, some "rasism" about software applications? How can anyone base decission to use tool X or Y based on tools it uses??? (Apart from embbed). This is least resonable thing I heared here in 2009-2010 [14:58] hence kwin for qt drinks and gnome for gtk drinks.. makes sense [14:58] kwin on gnome looks ugly [14:59] you would base decission to use X or Y based on it's looks? :O [14:59] LimCore: Easier to support a common toolkit on one? [14:59] LimCore: i am all for consistency .. yes [14:59] so.. discard awesome tools because they use kde? [15:00] you can mix and match all you want but thats a personal choice .. [15:00] I hope other users have more sense [15:01] we have awesome programs like kmail and krusader (although buggy) but Ubutnu should do things to invite people to try them out.. not this "omg its kde.. not want" [15:01] other programs, for email, seem x2 less advance, like some 2000 year software and/or written by amishes by comparsion - missing functions, options, detaikls [15:02] * Hobbsee notes that this has gone extremely far from the topic of the channel, and has turned into a rant [15:05] ok then, we should invest more efforts in fixing the program that clearly is most advanced email client - kmail; If that statement is not obvious then I can make it more specyfic [15:06] then i wish you luck in fixing it [15:07] LimCore: apt-get source kmail - it's all there if you want to fix it. [15:08] Boo [15:08] Go home thekorn :) [15:11] bddebian, bah, it's Friday! you are two hours too late ;) [15:12] Doh :) [15:16] so, kgpg seems to be in taskbar but it does not responde on click. instead one must look for its systray icon to bring it up .. thats what am having here [15:20] and since its hidden, then one could think application did not start at all [15:21] top doesnt even list it as a running process as far as i can tell [15:23] fujimitsu: all users EVER that I told to run kgpg, always responded - I did but it did not start. Open a bug, I can confirm it [15:23] kde is wierd [15:24] this strange behaviour is unique to kgpg [15:24] pretty, yes.. but weird behaviour [15:25] so much for security thru obscurity [15:25] bug 470695 [15:25]