=== eeejay is now known as eeejay_away
pittiGood morning07:44
kenvandinehey pitti08:14
* kenvandine just released 0.2 of xchat-indicator :)08:14
kenvandinetime to crash!08:14
kenvandinegood night all08:14
pittikenvandine: good night!08:41
glatzormorning pitti and mvo08:46
mvohey glatzor! good morning!08:53
mvohey seb12808:53
seb128hey mvo!08:54
seb128how are you?08:54
pittihey glatzor, hey mvo, hey seb12808:54
seb128hey pitti08:55
seb128how are you?08:55
mvoseb128: tired, but otherwise good08:55
seb128hey chrisccoulson09:08
chrisccoulsonhey seb128, how are you?09:08
seb128davidbarth, hey, do you know what happened to dxteam weekly tarballs?09:08
seb128davidbarth, I've seen no upload yesterday09:08
seb128chrisccoulson, good, thank you, what about you?09:09
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i'm ok thanks. i've just got in to work, i had a few car issues this morning which delayed me09:10
chrisccoulsonand my breakfast has just arrived now09:10
chrisccoulsonperfect timing :)09:10
seb128you have no luck with cars09:10
seb128or is that still the same one which let you down in december?09:11
seb128enjoy breakfast09:11
chrisccoulsonyeah, mine is a pain in the cold. it's still the same car. there is a relay in the windscreen wiper motor which ices up in the cold, and i have to use a hair-dryer on it to warm it up ;)09:11
seb128brb, reboot after daily dist-upgrade09:12
seb128chrisccoulson, urg, you deserve coffee and breakfast now then ;-)09:12
davidbarthseb128: not ready yesterday, postponed to today09:32
seb128hum, ok09:32
seb128or next week then09:32
* seb128 doesn't like things landing on friday evening09:32
seb128when everybody is away for the weekend09:32
davidbarthseb128: well, for a2, it's today the latest09:32
seb128let's see09:32
davidbarthseb128: next week is another story, it will be the beginning of a309:32
seb128you will get tarballs today09:33
seb128we will see when we upload to lucid09:33
seb128I don't push new versions on friday afternoon usually09:33
seb128that's a receipt to have a broken distro until after weekend09:33
davidbarthseb128: ok, i understand09:33
davidbarthseb128: yeah09:33
davidbarthseb128: but yesterday we didn't have enough new features for the app indicators, and the community needs that09:34
davidbarthseb128: so we're pushing a bit more to get that in a2 proper09:34
seb128I understand don't worry09:34
seb128I'm just saying that might land on monday in lucid09:34
seb128which is fine for alpha209:34
huatsmorning everyone09:35
pittiI'm off for some two hours for an appointment09:42
seb128pitti, see you later09:42
seb128huats, hey09:42
huatsseb128, hello !09:43
seb128indicator-application is too buggy to be used10:20
seb128davidbarth, is ted working on fix it for alpha2?10:21
seb128I don't see any commit for 3 weeks10:21
seb128you can't call set_menu, set_icon, etc several time10:21
seb128so it's not possible to do any update which sort of limit the use10:22
davidbarthseb128: yes, is been working on it the week of christmas and this week of course10:39
davidbarthseb128: update, you mean sending a menu update, right?10:40
seb128menu or icon10:40
seb128there is a bug with a testcase for the icon issue10:41
seb128the api is buggy too10:41
davidbarththat's right; bug with test case ok10:41
davidbarthi mean, good to have a test case10:41
seb128it would explain why the rhythmbox icon doesn't change on play or pause10:41
seb128(though it would be broken if it changed due to the custom theme dir)10:42
davidbarththe api is new, but it's similar to the kde one; i don't think it's that buggy, it needs more work, but the number of ported, and so impacted, applications so far is limited10:42
seb128davidbarth, no sorry, I mean there is a bug in the documentation10:43
seb128I will do a patch for it now10:43
seb128davidbarth, it has "These are the states that the indicator can be on in the user's panel. The indicator by default starts in the state APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_OFF and can be shown by setting it to APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_ON."10:44
davidbarthseb128: bratsche is looking at the right signal to connect to to get the updates to be propagated10:44
seb128where it's _ACTIVE and _PASSIVE in the neum10:44
seb128and the default state is wrong too10:44
seb128if you don't call set_status on ACTIVE it's displayed anyway10:45
seb128hey agateau10:45
seb128nothing too specific or that can't wait for ted10:45
seb128I was saying that "These are the states that the indicator can be on in the user's panel. The indicator by default starts in the state APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_OFF and can be shown by setting it to APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_ON."10:45
seb128is wrong10:45
seb128the enum has _ACTIVE and _PASSIVE there and no _ON and _OFF as values10:46
seb128and the default seems to be ACTIVE10:46
seb128since if you don't cann set_status it does display the indicator anyway10:46
agateauseems to be consistent with the spec10:46
davidbarthseb128: hmm, that must be a mismatch between a spec element and the implementation; thanks for spotting this one10:46
seb128I will open a bug now10:46
davidbarthseb128: call? you mean you're on a call; ping us back then10:47
seb128davidbarth, no "cann" was a typo for "call"10:47
seb128sorry ;-)10:47
seb128cf line before the "call"10:47
seb128davidbarth, agateau: bug #50470010:50
ubottuLaunchpad bug 504700 in indicator-application "inconsistant status documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50470010:50
davidbarthseb128: about the inability to call set_menu or icon multiple times, it's all about supporting updates, right? or did you spot other issues in the code, like statics, or wrong create/destroy cycles?10:52
seb128davidbarth, updates10:52
davidbarthseb128: ok10:52
seb128davidbarth, agateau: I've added a small testcase to bug #504699 to show the default value issue too10:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 504699 in indicator-application "inconsistant status documentation" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50469910:53
seb128bug #504700 rather10:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 504700 in indicator-application "inconsistant status documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50470010:56
seb128sorry I opened it twice10:56
seb128closed the dup10:56
JamieBennettI need to determine if we have 3D acceleration capabilities to install either a 2D or 3D netbook-launcher for UNE on ARM.11:44
JamieBennettglxinfo | grep 'renderer string' would do it but apparently there is a better way? Anyone know what that is?11:44
seb128JamieBennett, hi, I don't know but bryyce or mvo might know11:45
seb128they are probably not around right now, it's lunch time for mvo and early for bryyce11:45
seb128you can wait there though11:46
* JamieBennett hangs around11:46
mvoJamieBennett: hi, in compiz we use http://paste.ubuntu.com/353425/11:49
seb128mvo, wb, I guess that s-c crashing on exit is known?11:56
seb128mvo, it's very noticable now that apport is running again in lucid11:56
JamieBennettmvo thanks11:57
mvoseb128: what is the backtrace?11:58
seb128mvo, a NoSectionError11:58
seb128let me check again11:58
seb128mvo, bug #49489911:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 494899 in software-center "software-center crashed with NoSectionError in set()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49489911:59
seb128bug #49569811:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 495698 in software-center "ConfigParser.NoSectionError error on exit" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49569811:59
seb128bug #49569811:59
mvoseb128: thanks, I fix it today12:00
seb128mvo, I think those 3 bugs are duplicate and the same issue12:00
seb128bug #50405712:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 504057 in software-center "software-center crashed with NoSectionError in set()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50405712:00
seb128sorry I had the same number twice before12:01
seb128mvo, ^ those are the 3 matching12:01
mvothanks, milestoned12:01
seb128thank you12:01
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
seb128I get the bug if you need testing12:01
seb128it happens when closing s-c12:01
mvoseb128: thanks, I will come back to you about it12:02
asacplymouth officially busted?12:09
tseliotasac: ?12:10
seb128asac, Keybuk should know12:10
asaci get reports that we always get error messages at boot about it12:10
asacone sec12:10
asac13:10 < JamieBennett> asac: Its mountall: Could not connect to Plymouth12:10
tseliotI haven't had the time to do further work on it but yes, Keybuk should know about that12:10
tseliotasac: maybe because plymouth is not installed?12:11
asacgood idea ;)12:11
tseliot(not that if installed that would work correctly)12:11
asactakes a bit ;)12:13
asac13:14 < ogra> ii  libplymouth2                         0.8.0~-6                                   graphical boot animation and logger - shared12:14
seb128asac, what about the plymouth binary?12:15
seb128asac, the lib is probably not enough12:15
asacseems to be not installed. isnt that in the desktop seed?12:15
JamieBennettseb128 no binary12:15
seb128asac, not yet12:16
* asac has no clue about plymouth ;)12:16
asacah ok12:16
seb128asac, Keybuk mentioned yesterday to have to do that for next week12:16
asacthen its expected12:16
asacok. when do you plan to12:16
seb128before flying on tuesday I think12:16
seb128I don't plan anything12:16
seb128Keybuk said it's an alpha2 goal12:16
seb128so before tuesday I expect12:16
seb128lunch time there12:17
JamieBennettLooks like a glxinfo | grep "direct rendering: Yes" (or glxinfo | grep 'renderer string' differing opinions on which is best) is the way to detect 3D acceleration. Where do I look to integrate this into GDM so the right one (2D/3D) is launched on login?12:19
asacthats the brute force approach. too bad i cant remember. i was told that its important to check for a certain extension ;)12:21
asacJamieBennett: i would think its in the session script12:22
JamieBennettasac: I talked to MacSlow and a few guys in #ubuntu-x seems there is no real nice way of detecting it on all platforms12:24
asacok we will see.12:24
mvoJamieBennett: there is no nice and easy way, but just checking for directrendering will miss use cases like ltsp that works ok with gl over the network iirc12:25
asacmaybe we should check the UDS session notes again12:25
asacmaybe i commented i tthere12:25
asacmvo: do you know which extension we need to probe for?12:25
mvoasac: I pasted what we do in compiz12:26
mvobasicly we check for software raserization and if that is present we bail out12:26
mvoin lucid in code12:26
* asac searches for glasses12:26
asacmvo: we want to check for UNE launcher12:27
mvoin karmic we do it with a script12:27
asacmight not be the same as compiz12:27
mvoyou also need to be careful because some HW supports acceleration only on the first head12:27
mvoso e.g. the guest session will be slow if you try 3d on it12:27
asacyeah. well. at best we would have a strict check12:27
asacits ok for us to bail out12:27
asacon arm12:27
asacactually we expect that to happen in most cases12:28
mvoLIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT is also something that may be tested (not sure if that is still relevant) - so once with that set and once without12:28
mvoAmaranth: recently ported all the checks to C, he knows best currently what to check for12:29
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
asacmvo: but is compiz even related to UNE/clutter?13:08
* asac lunch13:09
kenvandinepitti, have you seen the branch for jockey adding appindicator support?13:35
seb128hey kenvandine13:35
pittikenvandine: Conor was talking to me about it, yes13:36
seb128is that working?13:36
kenvandineseb128, yes13:36
seb128trying to stop displaying the icon there is a fail, weird13:36
seb128I'm wondering what you do to get that working13:36
kenvandineit displays the icon13:36
seb128well it should stop once the driver is installed13:36
seb128I've not managed to get that working13:37
seb128the set_status just does nothing there13:37
kenvandineonce jockey marks it as seen, it doesn't notify13:37
seb128I had a go to gnome-bluetooth today13:37
seb128how to you get the icon to go away from the indicator?13:37
seb128calling set_status on passive doesn't do anything13:37
seb128calling set_status on passive doesn't do anything there13:37
seb128calling set_status on passive doesn't do anything there13:38
kenvandinewhen i tested the appindicator branch  it goes away when you click it13:38
seb128ups wrong screen13:38
kenvandinewhich opens jockey13:38
kenvandinethe icon goes away13:38
kenvandinepitti, did he do a merge proposal yet?13:39
seb128I will have a look to the code, thanks13:39
pittikenvandine: didn't see one yet (at least I didn't get mail)13:39
kenvandineoh, he added a patch to the bug instead of doing a merge proposal13:39
kenvandinehe says it has my changes included, but LP isn't responding...13:40
kenvandinepitti, bug 49787913:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 497879 in jockey "Support Application Indicators" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49787913:41
seb128pitti, does jockey exit if there is nothing to do?13:43
seb128tedg, good morning13:43
tedgGood morning seb12813:43
pittiseb128: on --check? yes13:43
seb128pitti, ok, so that's why no icon is displayed, you don't hide it but just exit?13:44
* tedg assumes it's good, he hasn't opened his e-mail yet :)13:44
pittiseb128: exactly; why should I leave the process running?13:45
seb128pitti, no reason, I was wondering why masking the icon worked in the jockey case and not there13:46
seb128tedg, I sent you a small patch in a bug I opened13:46
seb128tedg, should $ python -c 'import gobject, gtk, appindicator; ind = appindicator.Indicator ("example-simple-client", "indicator-messages", appindicator.CATEGORY_APPLICATION_STATUS); ind.set_status (appindicator.STATUS_PASSIVE); ind.set_menu(gtk.Menu()); gtk.main()' work13:46
seb128tedg, ie should that display no icon? or did I not understand the status thing?13:46
tedgseb128: It should, but that branch is not merged yet.  It's getting into some sort of infinite signal loop :(  I hope to have it merged today.13:47
seb128tedg, otherwise lp #50470013:48
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/504700)13:48
seb128bah launchpad today13:48
seb128kenvandine, it works for jockey because it exit when there is nothing to do13:48
seb128kenvandine, so it doesn't actually have to hide the icon13:48
JamieBennettAnyone around knows how netbook-launcher is selected in UNE? Does it use gnome-session or some other mechanism?13:50
mvoseb128: could you quickly check if software-center gives you a debian placeholder thumbnail for missing images? or a (correct) ubuntu one?13:50
mvo(or someone else :) ?13:51
seb128mvo, trying13:51
mvobtw, gio == love13:51
tedgseb128: Cool, yes I had originally wanted the status to be more informative, but I stuck with making it match the spec.13:52
seb128mvo, debian in current lucid13:52
mvoseb128: thanks, I just wanted to be sure its not me (or my squid)13:53
seb128mvo, you're welcome13:53
seb128tedg, in the indicator design, should toggle visibility icons work that way or have a menu with one show or hide entry?14:18
seb128tedg, in the indicator design, should toggle visibility icons work that way or have a menu with one show or hide entry displayed?14:18
tedgseb128: Menu item14:19
seb128ok thanks14:19
seb128well that's blocked on set_status to do something14:19
seb128ie having a way to stop showing the icon14:19
seb128but I will look at doing the nautilus change14:20
seb128it's only one icon for the copies there14:20
* seb128 waves to launchpad, hello?14:21
seb128tedg, btw do you want me to turn my typo fix in a proper merge request?14:21
tedgseb128: You can, but I already merged it in :)14:22
seb128ok, I will not bother then14:22
seb128is there any way to do that from the command line?14:22
seb128or is that a launchpad ui thing?14:22
tedgThere is, but I've not gotten it to work.14:22
* seb128 is launchpad bzr newbie14:22
tedgYou have to send a bundle via the e-mail interface.14:22
seb128seems the ui thing is easier ;-)14:23
kenvandinetedg, i never got that stuff working either14:23
kenvandinestatik tried coaching me, but it was complicated14:23
seb128kenvandine, xchat-indicator, please use a 0ubuntu1 version14:23
kenvandinei think once you get all that stuff setup it could be quite convienent14:23
kenvandinefor ubuntu i will14:23
tedgI think that the there is probably an issue with using the GUI mail tools like Evo that makes it complicated.  I think it's simple if you have a local mail server configured.14:23
seb128tedg, kenvandine: hey14:27
seb128tedg, will checkboxes in the indicator menu work soon too?14:29
tedgseb128: Yes.  Today.14:32
seb128the "hey" was to test kenvandine's xchat-gnome indicator thing14:33
seb128seems to work fine14:33
seb128xchat-gnome still claims for attention though14:33
seb128ie the taskbar entry does its effect thingy14:33
james_w"bzr send lp:<project> --mail-to merge@launchpad.net" IIRC14:34
kenvandineseb128, himm... to you think i should change that?14:34
kenvandinei can14:34
kenvandinenow that i figured out i can get a pointer to the window in the plugin14:35
kenvandinepitti, about jockey... do you want me to just distro patch that for now?14:35
pittikenvandine: fine for me14:36
seb128james_w, nice14:41
seb128slomo, hey14:41
seb128kenvandine, no strong opinion but I though the point of queuing things was to avoid active annoyance like the blincking14:42
kenvandineempathy  still does that14:42
kenvandineand i think pidgin does too14:42
seb128ie the taskbar flashed I don't really need the indicator icon change14:42
seb128pitti, can you jabber ping me now?14:43
seb128just to test something14:43
pittiseb128: done14:43
seb128kenvandine, no empathy doesn't14:43
seb128I got the notify bubble and that's all14:44
kenvandinedid you have the chat window open?14:44
kenvandinemine just did it14:44
seb128no dialog opening nor blinking14:44
kenvandineleave the chat window open14:44
kenvandineit will14:44
kenvandinejust not focused14:44
seb128I tend to close my im dialgos14:44
seb128using pidgin they just auto-open14:44
slomoseb128: hi :)14:44
kenvandinei think the difference is xchat you never close14:44
seb128and empathy they just queue14:44
seb128well I fail to see the point of the indicator14:45
seb128if you have a task blinking to indicate that anyway14:45
kenvandinequeue of things that need your attention14:45
kenvandinei am all for not blinking the taskbar14:45
seb128well the tasklist queue them too14:45
kenvandinei just hadn't considered it14:45
seb128in any case packaging looks good14:45
seb128and it worked directly14:45
kenvandinecool :)14:45
seb128I didn't need to restart xchat-gnome14:46
seb128is there any way to active it when installed?14:46
seb128without having to do that manually14:46
seb128if you install it that's probably to use it14:46
seb128or is that some sort of gconf list you would need to edit?14:46
kenvandinei think gconf14:47
seb128ok, that sucks14:47
seb128anyway it's a good start14:47
kenvandineso we would need to change that in xchat-gnome and make it depend/recommends etc14:47
seb128let me know when you want sponsoring14:47
seb128I would be in favor of no blinking too14:47
seb128if you want to fix that14:47
seb128I think that's the main interest of the indicator14:48
seb128to avoid having things stressing you14:48
seb128they just go there14:48
chrisccoulsonwow,  my DSL connection is no faster than dial-up this afternoon!14:54
vishmpt: hi...around?14:55
mpthi vish14:55
vishmpt: Bug 194472 is awaiting your higher intervention ;)14:55
seb128chrisccoulson, very fast dial-up or very slow dsl? ;-)14:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 194472 in hundredpapercuts "Entering password in Terminal gives no visual feedback" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19447214:55
vishmpt: i asked matthiaz he mentioned he wasnt very sure of what you suggested14:56
vishmpt: he said your comments on the bug were a bit unclear ... he wasnt sure if the need to change the default behavior in sudo or to change the behavior in the other apps14:57
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i'm getting about 40kbps at the moment ;)14:58
pittiseb128: do you happen to know when the next gst release will be? (for bug 460535)14:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 460535 in gst-plugins-base0.10 "Unable to play any but the first track of CD" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46053514:59
seb128pitti, no15:00
seb128slomo, ^15:00
=== robbiew1 is now known as robbiew
pittibryyce: WDYT about the patch for bug 494627? it sounds important to get into a215:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 494627 in xorg-server "nv driver crashing with segmentation fault in libpthread.so.0" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49462715:01
seb128pitti, it has been uploaded15:03
seb128xorg-server (2: lucid; urgency=low15:03
seb128  [ Michael Vogt ]15:03
seb128  * Add 101_nv-crash-fix.diff: Do not crash if gamma_set is NULL.15:03
seb128    (LP: #494627)15:03
seb128pitti, no?15:03
=== eeejay_away is now known as eeejay
pittiseb128: hm, the bug is still open15:07
pittiah, someone reopened it apparently?15:07
seb128I didn't look at the bug15:08
rodrigo__pitti, seb128: are there branches for karmic packages?15:08
seb128just lucid-changes15:08
slomoseb128: pre-releases should be there in a few days iirc15:08
seb128pitti, ^15:08
seb128slomo, thanks15:08
rodrigo__that is, I'm going to submit a lucid package, but I'm wondering what to do if I later have a karmic change, since trunk would be lucid15:08
pittirodrigo__: not for ~ubuntu-desktop, just the auto-imports; feel free to create a branch if you need one, though15:08
rodrigo__pitti: not for now, just want to submit a lucid package15:08
rodrigo__so I'll create one if I need to15:09
tjaaltonpitti: right, closed again15:11
pittitjaalton: heh, me too15:11
seb128I'm away for some erands15:15
seb128kenvandine, let me know if you need any sponsoring or anything15:16
seb128I will read backlog later15:16
kenvandineok, i need to run out in a few too15:17
kenvandinedriving my daughter to school... they delayed school 2 hours because of snow... which never happened15:17
rickspencer3_I did a dist-upgrade yesterday, and my window manager is hilariously messed up15:18
* rickspencer3_ switches to compiz15:19
rickspencer3_much better15:20
mvocompiz ftw ;)15:20
pittidavidbarth, kenvandine: would you mind updating the DX integration status on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus ?15:27
* kenvandine runs out for a few... back in about 30m15:28
rickspencer3_pitti, I guess that's a "no" from kenvandine15:31
Hobbseewell, that all depends on how long you want to wait ;)15:31
pittiseb128: do you happen to know what happened DX integration-wise this week?15:31
pittiHobbsee: 29 minutes :)15:31
Hobbseepitti: then he'll have 2 mins to do it :P15:32
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|errand
mptvish, done15:32
Hobbseeshould be no great problem, on that basis15:32
vishmpt: awesome.. thanks :)15:32
rickspencer3_pitti, check out what bdmurray did for us:15:35
rickspencer3_it runs once per night15:35
rickspencer3_and is integrated with bughugger15:36
davidbarthpitti: updating the work items atm, will do next15:39
pittidavidbarth: cheers15:40
pittirickspencer3_: sweet!15:40
davidbarthpitti: if you want to trigger your scripts to rebuild the b-down charts, the dx graph should look different15:41
vishmpt: I'm confused... you want the feedback shown ... or is the comment to leave the behavior as it is now...  shall I unassign the papercut bug?15:41
mptvish, I'm saying it should depend on what server administrators want, not on what desktop users want.15:41
pittidavidbarth: rebuilding15:42
pittidavidbarth: (note that it always takes some 10 minutes before whiteboard changes propagate to production DB)15:42
vishmpt: since papercuts are for the desktop users .. so the bug is not a papercut it that sense..right?15:42
pittidavidbarth: ERROR: dx-lucid-application-indicator: invalid state "inprogress (blocked in the packaging queue)" for work item "[agateau] add dbusmenu support to kdelibs"15:43
mptvish, I don't know. I think the Server team has been doing papercuts, but I don't know whether they use a project for it, and if so, what one.15:43
pittidavidbarth: otherwise, updated15:43
vishmpt: ok... thanks...15:44
rickspencer3_pitti, to entice you to take a look at bughugger:15:46
asacpitti: will there be a run for work items in 10 minutes?15:52
pittiasac: yes15:53
pittirickspencer3_: *excited* gravity column? sweet!15:54
pittirickspencer3_: although arguably that's not really useful for assigned bugs15:54
rickspencer3_pitti, not *as* useful for sure15:54
pittiI'd love to sort by gravity for untriaged/unassigned bugs in my packages15:55
rickspencer3_pitti, you can totally do that with bughugger15:55
rickspencer3_bzr branch lp:bughugger15:55
pittiPackage: bughugger15:55
pittiStatus: install ok installed15:55
rickspencer3_cd bughugger15:55
rickspencer3_quickly run15:55
pittiah, for crack of the day15:55
rickspencer3_pitti, you want to use the branch, the PPA is a bit out of date15:55
rickspencer3_I'm going to just try to get it strait into universe next week15:55
* pitti does that the15:56
djsiegelseb128: is gwibber still shipping?16:09
rickspencer3_djsiegel, maybe I don't understand your question, but we are expecting to put it onto the CD in main to support the Me Menu16:13
djsiegelrickspencer3_: ah, ok16:13
djsiegelI just meant, is gwibber going to be a standalone, user-facing application in Lucid16:13
rickspencer3_djsiegel, I'16:14
rickspencer3_m sure how we are going to handle the UI part, but I assume it will be a stand alone app so there is some way to view your microblog feeds16:14
rickspencer3_also, the configuration components are needed for Me Menu16:14
djsiegelitorrey: http://github.com/phl/Fadomatic16:29
geserdoes somebody know of any objections to not sync/merge mutter from Debian testing? I'd ask didrocks as he did the Ubuntu packages but he doesn't seem to be here16:40
=== MacSlow|errand is now known as MacSlow
asacgeser: maybe check with njpatel ... not sure if he knows anything about mutter17:13
asacgeser: also maybe check with pauliu ... he did that for OEM afaik17:14
asacpaulliu actually17:14
njpatelasac: geser: I haven't tested out mutter from testing, but this would be the time to get it in I think17:15
asacis mutter used anywhere on images?17:15
kenvandinetseliot, ping17:15
tseliotkenvandine: pong17:16
pittidon't think so; it's still in universe17:16
asacgeser: otherwise, just go ahead17:16
kenvandinetseliot, there are unreleased changes in the bzr branch for jockey17:16
kenvandinetseliot, can those get uploaded?17:16
* kenvandine needs to get a patch uploaded17:16
asacif you could check if all build depends for carrick are in debian i would be even happier17:16
* asac feels to ask for too much17:16
tseliotkenvandine: not without the new nvidia common which in turn requires my nvidia drivers17:16
kenvandineok, i will do a debdiff without your changes then :)17:17
tseliotkenvandine: good17:18
tseliotthanks for asking ;)17:18
pittigood bye everyone, have a nice weekend!17:37
rickspencer3_see you in Paris pitti!17:45
djsiegelcassidy: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/217582/Files%20Shared%20from%20GNOME%20Do/Screenshot-2-1213890507.png ?17:57
mptmvo, Empathy now has buttons in rows too: ^^18:01
vishmpt: thats a mockup ;)18:01
mptIt is?18:01
vishmpt: djsiegel fooled me too :)18:01
djsiegelmpt: yeah, sorry18:02
djsiegelI am trying to persuade them not to put buttons-that-look-like-icons-that-reveal-a-small-context-menu-when-clicked18:02
djsiegelin ever row18:02
seb128pitti, I see davidbarth did it18:32
seb128geser, go for it that will fix gnome-shell18:33
seb128geser, you might need replaces in ubuntu so no sync18:33
seb128djsiegel, what rickspencer3 replied18:33
rickspencer3hi seb12818:33
seb128hey rickspencer318:33
seb128how are you?18:34
rickspencer3looking forward to Paris18:35
seb128oh right ;-)18:35
rickspencer3haven't been there in 24 years!18:35
rickspencer3(well, except the airport)18:35
rickspencer3and looking forward to seeing didrocks, and pitti and Neil, and davidbarth, etc...18:35
seb128(which we will not talk about right? ;-)18:35
seb128is your french ready for that now you think? ;-)18:36
rickspencer3seb128, sadly not18:36
rickspencer3I was practicing, though18:36
seb128I'm pondering joining for a day18:36
seb128I will see next week how the week turns18:36
rickspencer3seb128, sounds good18:36
rickspencer3no pressure18:36
seb128I don't need to book anything in advance if I want to come18:36
seb128I just have to catch a train18:36
rickspencer3looks like the desktop team did quite a good job for a218:38
rickspencer3very good progress18:38
seb128I'm just slightly unhappy about login speed18:38
seb128we still have lot to win there18:38
rickspencer3this is keeping me away at night18:38
rickspencer3I did discuss this with robbiew at length18:38
asacaway ;)?18:38
rickspencer3I don't know what is going to happen18:39
seb128I don't think the target is doable to be honest18:39
seb128but let's see what we manage to do18:39
rickspencer3but we had to cut touch UI, a lot of social from the start features, etc...18:39
seb128there is just a limit of what you can do on a sucky cpu in a few seconds18:39
rickspencer3so I am wondering if we've hit the point of diminishing returns in terms of user benefits18:40
asachow much time is currently needed/wanted?18:40
rickspencer3asac, we're supposed to be down to 4 seconds, and we are 10+ now18:40
asac(just curious)18:40
asacouch. ok18:40
asacso maybe dont start nautilus ;)18:41
asacor isnt that even in that time?18:41
rickspencer3well, that 10+ is like half of where we used to be18:41
rickspencer3asac, I think we would also have to not start gnome panel18:41
asacyeah. feels like a good improvement if it doesnt get better18:41
rickspencer3so, the desktop wouldn't have too much value in that state ;)18:41
asacgnome panel is indeed kind of slow18:41
rickspencer3in the meantime, it is still our goal to hit the target18:42
seb128asac, well not starting nautilus is an option18:42
seb128we still have some 8 seconds18:42
seb128nautilus is not the limiting part18:42
asacthats why i mentioned it first ... on my desktop nautilus startup time is really annoying sometimes18:42
seb128and those take some 8 seconds on the atm18:43
asaclike i start working and then at some point mounts auto pop up etc.18:43
seb128but 3 seconds on my 2 years old laptop config18:43
seb128that's not nautilus18:43
rickspencer3a3 is start up time, proprietary driver robustness, a couple of social from the start items, firefox support mdoel, and UNE18:43
seb128that's probably the devicekit layer events coming late18:43
rickspencer3at a high level18:43
asacthe popping up certinaly doesnt happen before nautilus is loaded. for me it felt that it happens exactly when the nautilus stuff finished18:43
asacbut right. could be independent18:44
seb128if you have good cpu nautilus start in some 3 seconds18:44
seb128at least on my dua centrino 2.4G18:44
asacwhich can be much if gnome-panel is also still rumbling18:44
seb128the mini atom takes 8 seconds18:44
asacor isnt that in parallel (felt that way)18:44
seb128it is18:44
seb128but you might have a slow disk and hit io limits?18:45
asaccould be. its a X61 lenovo ... so not that old18:45
asacbut disk is definitly not fastest18:45
asacbut i hope i can say that i have a good average computer for our market :)18:45
seb128asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20100106-2.png18:45
asacbut my nautilus and gnome-panel are customized ... so not comparable to clean install18:46
seb128it's where we stand now on the mini18:46
asacotoh, i hate windows for getting slower over time ... this isnt the same in that it doesnt get worse at some point, but feels a bit like it if you start with aclean system18:46
seb128asac, you take that laptop at the sprint?18:47
seb128we can have a look to login speed there if you want...18:47
asachmm. the bootchart doesnt show when a process is in io wait?18:48
asacor is it just not recognizable?18:48
seb128asac, it does18:48
seb128it's red on the bars18:49
seb128the mini is ssd drive18:49
seb128there is no io issue there18:49
seb128the issue is purely cpu use18:49
seb128see the charts18:49
asaci dont say io throughput, but waiting on io ... like sleeping on a select/poll18:49
seb128the first one, blue, is cpu18:49
asaci would think all white areas are like that18:49
seb128oh, I don't think bootchart can tell that18:49
seb128but I don't know about better tools either18:50
seb128so we use that for now18:50
asacpoint is if there are is like white areas in the middle of blue ones, that usually means its waiting for sometihng18:50
asacif that is paired with no red anywhere, its not optimally scaled18:50
mvompt: hey, its easy to add those buttons when not in fixed-height mode18:50
mptmvo, I guess contact lists don't get nearly as long18:51
mvompt: its really only a issue with very big datasets that are displayed18:51
mvompt: yeah18:51
mvompt: I haven't had time yet, but it should be easy to write something to try it out18:51
mvompt: then we test performance on a netbook, if its reaonsable there, then we can do it18:51
seb128asac, well the blue curve indicates it's 100%cpu all time18:51
seb128so I would think it's cpu bounded18:52
seb128why would it sit there doing nothing?18:52
rickspencer3hiya didrocks18:53
mvompt: actually that is a interessting mockup, because AFAIK there are still no real buttons available, I can only do the fake buttons (as the arrow buttons we have currently) that are close to the real thing18:53
didrockshey rickspencer318:53
rickspencer3seb128, do you use evo?18:53
didrockshey mvo and seb128 :)18:55
asacseb128: so what is gnome-panel doing in the 2/4 section where is so much white?18:56
seb128hey didrocks18:57
seb128rickspencer3, yes18:57
rickspencer3seb128, is there a function to archive a folder on a disc locally?18:58
seb128asac, dunno, I've been profiling nautilus so far18:58
rickspencer3like export to a .gz?18:58
seb128rickspencer3, not that I know18:58
seb128rickspencer3, I usually create a mbox account and creates folders there18:58
seb128and copy emails to that18:58
seb128it give you files in a dir18:59
seb128one mbox file by box18:59
rickspencer3makes sense18:59
seb128box = folder18:59
mvohey didrocks, happy new year!18:59
rickspencer3I tried dragging the emails to a directory and evo went all nutty18:59
seb128asac, the cpu is still at 100% though18:59
seb128asac, so it might be waiting on applets to load18:59
seb128that's done in a sync way19:00
didrocksmvo: happy new year to you too :)19:00
seb128rickspencer3, weird19:00
seb128sorry I've to go for dinner19:00
seb128see you laer!19:00
rickspencer3bye bye seb12819:00
=== vish is now known as mac_v
=== mac_v is now known as vish
baptistemmpitti, about hal deprecation I don't remember you mentionned cheese19:16
=== asac_ is now known as asac
baptistemmhmm, hal is not a debian dependence of cheese19:17
rickspencer3baptistemm, there is a bug on cheese depending on hal19:19
rickspencer3I think seb128 mentioned that hal dependency is removed in upstream git19:19
baptistemmbecause I can see it crying because of missing hal :)19:19
rickspencer3you have to install hal and then run sudo hald :/19:19
baptistemmokay cheese has switched to libgudev I guess19:20
rickspencer3so the plan is, I think, to get the halectimized version into lucid, and if we can't do that, then we'll have to figure out how to start hal from a dbus signal19:20
bryycerickspencer3, wow that'd suck if we brough back hal for cheese, after all the pain we've taken getting X to not need it ;-)19:22
rickspencer3bryyce, well, we wouldn't "bring it back" in it's current form19:22
rickspencer3but I seriously doubt this is going to happen19:23
rickspencer3my point was just, we'll support cheese19:23
rickspencer3it would suck to not have cheese for netbooks19:23
bryycerickspencer3, btw dunno if you saw my blueprint update, but wacom tablets are still broken from the hal removal19:26
* mvo celebrates commit r500 in software-center19:28
rickspencer3bryyce, what's the plan?19:29
* rickspencer3 high fives mvo19:30
bryycerickspencer3, I added a note about it in the release notes19:30
rickspencer3bryyce, do you envision being fixed for a3?19:31
bryycerickspencer3, I hope so.  We're stuck waiting on upstream to do the development work to move from hal to udev19:31
* rickspencer3 nods19:32
rickspencer3bryyce, let's strive to hold back on commitments to make sure we have bandwidth post a3 to address issues like this19:32
* rickspencer3 subtly reinforces point from last team meeting19:33
bryyceI notice from the burn-down charts that we still have more tasks to do than we've done so far ;-)19:33
rickspencer3bryyce, right19:34
rickspencer3so we know for a fact we aren't going to get them all done19:34
rickspencer3so we should decide now what's not going to get done19:34
rickspencer3dissapoint people now, rather than suprise and piss them off later19:35
bryyceyeah...  and I know I've been neglecting bug triaging in order to get all the a2 tasks done19:35
kenvandineseb128, seems some of the DX packages aren't uploadable by ~ubuntu-desktop for lucid, but they are for karmic19:47
seb128kenvandine, I can sponsor but not fix upload rights19:56
kenvandineseb128, yeah, i asked cjwatson19:56
seb128I noticed19:56
seb128but in case he can't fix it today I can upload19:57
seb128it's late in the week for new sources though19:57
seb128we need an uploader and a reviewer to accept it19:57
seb128and I think pitti left for the weekend19:57
geseryes, he left 2 hours ago19:59
seb128rickspencer3, didrocks: where is the sprint next week btw?20:01
seb128where in paris to be specific20:02
rickspencer3Hotel Caumartin20:11
rickspencer329 Rue de Caumartin20:11
rickspencer375009 Paris20:11
rickspencer3we're actually staying at the hotel next door20:11
baptistemmnice place to stay it seems :)20:16
baptistemmlucky you20:16
rickspencer3baptistemm, as I say, we are staying next door20:20
rickspencer3probably a campground or something ;)20:20
baptistemmI'm not sure you can find one in Paris :)20:20
baptistemmperhaps on the Champs de Mars :)20:20
* rickspencer3 lunches20:20
baptistemmjust under the Effeil Tower feets :)20:21
seb128rickspencer3, thanks20:22
seb128rickspencer3, I think I will come for at least one day20:22
seb128I might stay one night somewhere20:22
seb128since return option suck for dinner20:22
seb128ie train is 20:3020:22
seb128anyway we can discuss that next week20:23
seb128enjoy lunch20:23
seb128I will probable come on tuesday or wednesday20:23
=== eeejay is now known as eeejay_away
chrisccoulsonhey seb12820:35
baptistemmhey chrisccoulson20:37
chrisccoulsonhey baptistemm, how are you?20:37
baptistemmfine, we reached the week end20:37
chrisccoulsonbaptistemm - yeah, i like the weekend :)20:40
chrisccoulsonright, time for me to terminate my contract with my DSL provider :(20:42
ccheneyasac: hmm maybe you were right about OOo, apparently it can't build because arm is in a bad state atm, kdelibs5-dev is uninstallable21:20
=== eeejay_away is now known as eeejay
kenvandineccheney, i am actually having the same problem on amd6421:20
ccheneyOOo itself shouldn't take too long to build but requires things be installed, heh21:20
ccheneykenvandine: oh so just general kdelibs5-dev breakage i guess?21:21
kenvandinecouldn't build jockey because it can't get kdelibs5-data21:21
kenvandineccheney, sounds like it21:21
ccheneywell OOo should be able to build by next thur hopefully21:23
=== eeejay is now known as eeejay_away
=== eeejay_away is now known as eeejay

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