[07:44] <pitti> Good morning
[08:14] <kenvandine> hey pitti
[08:14]  * kenvandine just released 0.2 of xchat-indicator :)
[08:14] <kenvandine> time to crash!
[08:14] <kenvandine> good night all
[08:41] <pitti> yay
[08:41] <pitti> kenvandine: good night!
[08:46] <glatzor> morning pitti and mvo
[08:53] <mvo> hey glatzor! good morning!
[08:53] <mvo> hey seb128
[08:54] <seb128> hey mvo!
[08:54] <seb128> how are you?
[08:54] <pitti> hey glatzor, hey mvo, hey seb128
[08:55] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:55] <seb128> how are you?
[08:55] <mvo> seb128: tired, but otherwise good
[09:08] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
[09:08] <seb128> davidbarth, hey, do you know what happened to dxteam weekly tarballs?
[09:08] <seb128> davidbarth, I've seen no upload yesterday
[09:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good, thank you, what about you?
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm ok thanks. i've just got in to work, i had a few car issues this morning which delayed me
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> and my breakfast has just arrived now
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> perfect timing :)
[09:10] <seb128> urg
[09:10] <seb128> you have no luck with cars
[09:11] <seb128> or is that still the same one which let you down in december?
[09:11] <seb128> enjoy breakfast
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> yeah, mine is a pain in the cold. it's still the same car. there is a relay in the windscreen wiper motor which ices up in the cold, and i have to use a hair-dryer on it to warm it up ;)
[09:12] <seb128> brb, reboot after daily dist-upgrade
[09:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson, urg, you deserve coffee and breakfast now then ;-)
[09:32] <davidbarth> seb128: not ready yesterday, postponed to today
[09:32] <seb128> hum, ok
[09:32] <seb128> or next week then
[09:32]  * seb128 doesn't like things landing on friday evening
[09:32] <seb128> when everybody is away for the weekend
[09:32] <davidbarth> seb128: well, for a2, it's today the latest
[09:32] <seb128> let's see
[09:32] <davidbarth> seb128: next week is another story, it will be the beginning of a3
[09:33] <seb128> you will get tarballs today
[09:33] <seb128> we will see when we upload to lucid
[09:33] <seb128> I don't push new versions on friday afternoon usually
[09:33] <seb128> that's a receipt to have a broken distro until after weekend
[09:33] <davidbarth> seb128: ok, i understand
[09:33] <davidbarth> seb128: yeah
[09:34] <davidbarth> seb128: but yesterday we didn't have enough new features for the app indicators, and the community needs that
[09:34] <davidbarth> seb128: so we're pushing a bit more to get that in a2 proper
[09:34] <seb128> I understand don't worry
[09:34] <seb128> I'm just saying that might land on monday in lucid
[09:34] <seb128> which is fine for alpha2
[09:35] <huats> morning everyone
[09:42] <pitti> I'm off for some two hours for an appointment
[09:42] <seb128> pitti, see you later
[09:42] <seb128> huats, hey
[09:43] <huats> seb128, hello !
[10:20] <seb128> bah
[10:20] <seb128> indicator-application is too buggy to be used
[10:21] <seb128> davidbarth, is ted working on fix it for alpha2?
[10:21] <seb128> I don't see any commit for 3 weeks
[10:21] <seb128> you can't call set_menu, set_icon, etc several time
[10:22] <seb128> so it's not possible to do any update which sort of limit the use
[10:39] <davidbarth> seb128: yes, is been working on it the week of christmas and this week of course
[10:40] <davidbarth> seb128: update, you mean sending a menu update, right?
[10:40] <seb128> yes
[10:40] <seb128> menu or icon
[10:41] <seb128> there is a bug with a testcase for the icon issue
[10:41] <seb128> the api is buggy too
[10:41] <davidbarth> that's right; bug with test case ok
[10:41] <davidbarth> i mean, good to have a test case
[10:41] <seb128> it would explain why the rhythmbox icon doesn't change on play or pause
[10:42] <seb128> (though it would be broken if it changed due to the custom theme dir)
[10:42] <davidbarth> the api is new, but it's similar to the kde one; i don't think it's that buggy, it needs more work, but the number of ported, and so impacted, applications so far is limited
[10:43] <seb128> davidbarth, no sorry, I mean there is a bug in the documentation
[10:43] <seb128> I will do a patch for it now
[10:44] <seb128> davidbarth, it has "These are the states that the indicator can be on in the user's panel. The indicator by default starts in the state APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_OFF and can be shown by setting it to APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_ON."
[10:44] <davidbarth> seb128: bratsche is looking at the right signal to connect to to get the updates to be propagated
[10:44] <seb128> where it's _ACTIVE and _PASSIVE in the neum
[10:44] <seb128> enum
[10:44] <seb128> and the default state is wrong too
[10:45] <seb128> if you don't call set_status on ACTIVE it's displayed anyway
[10:45] <seb128> hey agateau
[10:45] <seb128> nothing too specific or that can't wait for ted
[10:45] <seb128> I was saying that "These are the states that the indicator can be on in the user's panel. The indicator by default starts in the state APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_OFF and can be shown by setting it to APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_ON."
[10:45] <seb128> is wrong
[10:46] <seb128> the enum has _ACTIVE and _PASSIVE there and no _ON and _OFF as values
[10:46] <seb128> and the default seems to be ACTIVE
[10:46] <seb128> since if you don't cann set_status it does display the indicator anyway
[10:46] <seb128> call
[10:46] <agateau> seems to be consistent with the spec
[10:46] <davidbarth> seb128: hmm, that must be a mismatch between a spec element and the implementation; thanks for spotting this one
[10:46] <seb128> I will open a bug now
[10:47] <davidbarth> seb128: call? you mean you're on a call; ping us back then
[10:47] <seb128> davidbarth, no "cann" was a typo for "call"
[10:47] <seb128> sorry ;-)
[10:47] <seb128> cf line before the "call"
[10:48] <davidbarth> k
[10:50] <seb128> davidbarth, agateau: bug #504700
[10:52] <davidbarth> seb128: about the inability to call set_menu or icon multiple times, it's all about supporting updates, right? or did you spot other issues in the code, like statics, or wrong create/destroy cycles?
[10:52] <seb128> davidbarth, updates
[10:52] <davidbarth> seb128: ok
[10:53] <seb128> davidbarth, agateau: I've added a small testcase to bug #504699 to show the default value issue too
[10:56] <seb128> bug #504700 rather
[10:56] <seb128> sorry I opened it twice
[10:56] <seb128> closed the dup
[11:44] <JamieBennett> I need to determine if we have 3D acceleration capabilities to install either a 2D or 3D netbook-launcher for UNE on ARM.
[11:44] <JamieBennett> glxinfo | grep 'renderer string' would do it but apparently there is a better way? Anyone know what that is?
[11:45] <seb128> JamieBennett, hi, I don't know but bryyce or mvo might know
[11:45] <seb128> they are probably not around right now, it's lunch time for mvo and early for bryyce
[11:46] <seb128> you can wait there though
[11:46]  * JamieBennett hangs around
[11:49] <mvo> JamieBennett: hi, in compiz we use http://paste.ubuntu.com/353425/
[11:56] <seb128> mvo, wb, I guess that s-c crashing on exit is known?
[11:56] <seb128> mvo, it's very noticable now that apport is running again in lucid
[11:57] <JamieBennett> mvo thanks
[11:58] <mvo> seb128: what is the backtrace?
[11:58] <seb128> mvo, a NoSectionError
[11:58] <seb128> let me check again
[11:59] <seb128> mvo, bug #494899
[11:59] <seb128> bug #495698
[11:59] <seb128> bug #495698
[12:00] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I fix it today
[12:00] <seb128> mvo, I think those 3 bugs are duplicate and the same issue
[12:00] <seb128> bug #504057
[12:01] <seb128> sorry I had the same number twice before
[12:01] <mvo> np
[12:01] <seb128> mvo, ^ those are the 3 matching
[12:01] <mvo> thanks, milestoned
[12:01] <seb128> thank you
[12:01] <seb128> I get the bug if you need testing
[12:01] <seb128> it happens when closing s-c
[12:02] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I will come back to you about it
[12:09] <asac> plymouth officially busted?
[12:10] <tseliot> asac: ?
[12:10] <seb128> asac, Keybuk should know
[12:10] <asac> i get reports that we always get error messages at boot about it
[12:10] <asac> one sec
[12:10] <asac> 13:10 < JamieBennett> asac: Its mountall: Could not connect to Plymouth
[12:10] <tseliot> I haven't had the time to do further work on it but yes, Keybuk should know about that
[12:11] <tseliot> asac: maybe because plymouth is not installed?
[12:11] <asac> good idea ;)
[12:11] <tseliot> (not that if installed that would work correctly)
[12:13] <asac> heh
[12:13] <asac> takes a bit ;)
[12:14] <asac> 13:14 < ogra> ii  libplymouth2                         0.8.0~-6                                   graphical boot animation and logger - shared
[12:15] <seb128> asac, what about the plymouth binary?
[12:15] <seb128> asac, the lib is probably not enough
[12:15] <asac> yeah
[12:15] <asac> seems to be not installed. isnt that in the desktop seed?
[12:15] <JamieBennett> seb128 no binary
[12:16] <seb128> asac, not yet
[12:16]  * asac has no clue about plymouth ;)
[12:16] <asac> ah ok
[12:16] <seb128> asac, Keybuk mentioned yesterday to have to do that for next week
[12:16] <asac> then its expected
[12:16] <asac> ok. when do you plan to
[12:16] <seb128> before flying on tuesday I think
[12:16] <seb128> I don't plan anything
[12:16] <seb128> Keybuk said it's an alpha2 goal
[12:16] <seb128> so before tuesday I expect
[12:17] <seb128> lunch time there
[12:17] <seb128> bbl
[12:17] <asac> flying?
[12:18] <asac> sprint?
[12:19] <JamieBennett> Looks like a glxinfo | grep "direct rendering: Yes" (or glxinfo | grep 'renderer string' differing opinions on which is best) is the way to detect 3D acceleration. Where do I look to integrate this into GDM so the right one (2D/3D) is launched on login?
[12:21] <asac> thats the brute force approach. too bad i cant remember. i was told that its important to check for a certain extension ;)
[12:22] <asac> JamieBennett: i would think its in the session script
[12:24] <JamieBennett> asac: I talked to MacSlow and a few guys in #ubuntu-x seems there is no real nice way of detecting it on all platforms
[12:24] <asac> ok we will see.
[12:25] <mvo> JamieBennett: there is no nice and easy way, but just checking for directrendering will miss use cases like ltsp that works ok with gl over the network iirc
[12:25] <asac> maybe we should check the UDS session notes again
[12:25] <asac> maybe i commented i tthere
[12:25] <asac> mvo: do you know which extension we need to probe for?
[12:26] <mvo> asac: I pasted what we do in compiz
[12:26] <asac> where?
[12:26] <mvo> basicly we check for software raserization and if that is present we bail out
[12:26] <mvo> in lucid in code
[12:26]  * asac searches for glasses
[12:27] <asac> mvo: we want to check for UNE launcher
[12:27] <mvo> in karmic we do it with a script
[12:27] <mvo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/353425/
[12:27] <asac> might not be the same as compiz
[12:27] <mvo> you also need to be careful because some HW supports acceleration only on the first head
[12:27] <mvo> so e.g. the guest session will be slow if you try 3d on it
[12:27] <asac> yeah. well. at best we would have a strict check
[12:27] <asac> its ok for us to bail out
[12:27] <asac> on arm
[12:28] <asac> actually we expect that to happen in most cases
[12:28] <mvo> LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT is also something that may be tested (not sure if that is still relevant) - so once with that set and once without
[12:29] <mvo> Amaranth: recently ported all the checks to C, he knows best currently what to check for
[13:08] <asac> mvo: but is compiz even related to UNE/clutter?
[13:09]  * asac lunch
[13:35] <kenvandine> pitti, have you seen the branch for jockey adding appindicator support?
[13:35] <seb128> hey kenvandine
[13:36] <pitti> kenvandine: Conor was talking to me about it, yes
[13:36] <seb128> is that working?
[13:36] <kenvandine> seb128, yes
[13:36] <seb128> trying to stop displaying the icon there is a fail, weird
[13:36] <seb128> I'm wondering what you do to get that working
[13:36] <kenvandine> it displays the icon
[13:36] <seb128> well it should stop once the driver is installed
[13:36] <kenvandine> yeah
[13:37] <seb128> I've not managed to get that working
[13:37] <kenvandine> humm
[13:37] <seb128> the set_status just does nothing there
[13:37] <kenvandine> once jockey marks it as seen, it doesn't notify
[13:37] <seb128> I had a go to gnome-bluetooth today
[13:37] <seb128> how to you get the icon to go away from the indicator?
[13:37] <seb128> calling set_status on passive doesn't do anything
[13:37] <seb128> calling set_status on passive doesn't do anything there
[13:38] <seb128> calling set_status on passive doesn't do anything there
[13:38] <kenvandine> when i tested the appindicator branch  it goes away when you click it
[13:38] <seb128> ups wrong screen
[13:38] <kenvandine> which opens jockey
[13:38] <kenvandine> the icon goes away
[13:39] <kenvandine> pitti, did he do a merge proposal yet?
[13:39] <seb128> ok
[13:39] <seb128> I will have a look to the code, thanks
[13:39] <pitti> kenvandine: didn't see one yet (at least I didn't get mail)
[13:39] <kenvandine> oh, he added a patch to the bug instead of doing a merge proposal
[13:40] <kenvandine> he says it has my changes included, but LP isn't responding...
[13:41] <kenvandine> pitti, bug 497879
[13:43] <seb128> pitti, does jockey exit if there is nothing to do?
[13:43] <seb128> tedg, good morning
[13:43] <tedg> Good morning seb128
[13:43] <pitti> seb128: on --check? yes
[13:44] <seb128> pitti, ok, so that's why no icon is displayed, you don't hide it but just exit?
[13:44]  * tedg assumes it's good, he hasn't opened his e-mail yet :)
[13:45] <pitti> seb128: exactly; why should I leave the process running?
[13:46] <seb128> pitti, no reason, I was wondering why masking the icon worked in the jockey case and not there
[13:46] <seb128> tedg, I sent you a small patch in a bug I opened
[13:46] <seb128> tedg, should $ python -c 'import gobject, gtk, appindicator; ind = appindicator.Indicator ("example-simple-client", "indicator-messages", appindicator.CATEGORY_APPLICATION_STATUS); ind.set_status (appindicator.STATUS_PASSIVE); ind.set_menu(gtk.Menu()); gtk.main()' work
[13:46] <seb128> tedg, ie should that display no icon? or did I not understand the status thing?
[13:47] <tedg> seb128: It should, but that branch is not merged yet.  It's getting into some sort of infinite signal loop :(  I hope to have it merged today.
[13:47] <seb128> ok
[13:48] <seb128> tedg, otherwise lp #504700
[13:48] <seb128> bah launchpad today
[13:48] <seb128> kenvandine, it works for jockey because it exit when there is nothing to do
[13:48] <kenvandine> yeah
[13:48] <seb128> kenvandine, so it doesn't actually have to hide the icon
[13:50] <JamieBennett> Anyone around knows how netbook-launcher is selected in UNE? Does it use gnome-session or some other mechanism?
[13:50] <mvo> seb128: could you quickly check if software-center gives you a debian placeholder thumbnail for missing images? or a (correct) ubuntu one?
[13:51] <mvo> (or someone else :) ?
[13:51] <seb128> mvo, trying
[13:51] <mvo> btw, gio == love
[13:52] <tedg> seb128: Cool, yes I had originally wanted the status to be more informative, but I stuck with making it match the spec.
[13:52] <seb128> mvo, debian in current lucid
[13:53] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I just wanted to be sure its not me (or my squid)
[13:53] <seb128> mvo, you're welcome
[14:18] <seb128> tedg, in the indicator design, should toggle visibility icons work that way or have a menu with one show or hide entry?
[14:18] <seb128> tedg, in the indicator design, should toggle visibility icons work that way or have a menu with one show or hide entry displayed?
[14:19] <tedg> seb128: Menu item
[14:19] <seb128> ok thanks
[14:19] <seb128> well that's blocked on set_status to do something
[14:19] <seb128> ie having a way to stop showing the icon
[14:20] <seb128> but I will look at doing the nautilus change
[14:20] <seb128> it's only one icon for the copies there
[14:21]  * seb128 waves to launchpad, hello?
[14:21] <seb128> tedg, btw do you want me to turn my typo fix in a proper merge request?
[14:22] <tedg> seb128: You can, but I already merged it in :)
[14:22] <seb128> ok, I will not bother then
[14:22] <seb128> is there any way to do that from the command line?
[14:22] <seb128> or is that a launchpad ui thing?
[14:22] <tedg> There is, but I've not gotten it to work.
[14:22]  * seb128 is launchpad bzr newbie
[14:22] <tedg> You have to send a bundle via the e-mail interface.
[14:23] <seb128> ok
[14:23] <seb128> seems the ui thing is easier ;-)
[14:23] <kenvandine> tedg, i never got that stuff working either
[14:23] <kenvandine> statik tried coaching me, but it was complicated
[14:23] <seb128> kenvandine, xchat-indicator, please use a 0ubuntu1 version
[14:23] <kenvandine> i think once you get all that stuff setup it could be quite convienent
[14:23] <kenvandine> for ubuntu i will
[14:23] <tedg> I think that the there is probably an issue with using the GUI mail tools like Evo that makes it complicated.  I think it's simple if you have a local mail server configured.
[14:27] <seb128> tedg, kenvandine: hey
[14:29] <seb128> tedg, will checkboxes in the indicator menu work soon too?
[14:32] <tedg> seb128: Yes.  Today.
[14:32] <seb128> excellent
[14:33] <seb128> the "hey" was to test kenvandine's xchat-gnome indicator thing
[14:33] <seb128> seems to work fine
[14:33] <seb128> xchat-gnome still claims for attention though
[14:33] <seb128> ie the taskbar entry does its effect thingy
[14:34] <james_w> "bzr send lp:<project> --mail-to merge@launchpad.net" IIRC
[14:34] <kenvandine> hehe
[14:34] <kenvandine> seb128, himm... to you think i should change that?
[14:34] <kenvandine> i can
[14:35] <kenvandine> now that i figured out i can get a pointer to the window in the plugin
[14:35] <kenvandine> pitti, about jockey... do you want me to just distro patch that for now?
[14:36] <pitti> kenvandine: fine for me
[14:36] <kenvandine> ok
[14:36] <kenvandine> thx
[14:41] <seb128> james_w, nice
[14:41] <seb128> slomo, hey
[14:42] <seb128> kenvandine, no strong opinion but I though the point of queuing things was to avoid active annoyance like the blincking
[14:42] <kenvandine> empathy  still does that
[14:42] <kenvandine> and i think pidgin does too
[14:42] <seb128> ie the taskbar flashed I don't really need the indicator icon change
[14:43] <seb128> hum
[14:43] <seb128> pitti, can you jabber ping me now?
[14:43] <seb128> just to test something
[14:43] <pitti> seb128: done
[14:43] <seb128> kenvandine, no empathy doesn't
[14:43] <kenvandine> humm
[14:44] <seb128> I got the notify bubble and that's all
[14:44] <kenvandine> did you have the chat window open?
[14:44] <kenvandine> mine just did it
[14:44] <seb128> no dialog opening nor blinking
[14:44] <seb128> no
[14:44] <kenvandine> leave the chat window open
[14:44] <kenvandine> it will
[14:44] <kenvandine> just not focused
[14:44] <seb128> ok
[14:44] <seb128> I tend to close my im dialgos
[14:44] <seb128> dialogs
[14:44] <seb128> using pidgin they just auto-open
[14:44] <slomo> seb128: hi :)
[14:44] <kenvandine> i think the difference is xchat you never close
[14:44] <seb128> and empathy they just queue
[14:45] <seb128> well I fail to see the point of the indicator
[14:45] <seb128> if you have a task blinking to indicate that anyway
[14:45] <kenvandine> queue of things that need your attention
[14:45] <kenvandine> i am all for not blinking the taskbar
[14:45] <seb128> well the tasklist queue them too
[14:45] <kenvandine> i just hadn't considered it
[14:45] <seb128> ok
[14:45] <seb128> in any case packaging looks good
[14:45] <seb128> and it worked directly
[14:45] <kenvandine> cool :)
[14:46] <seb128> I didn't need to restart xchat-gnome
[14:46] <seb128> is there any way to active it when installed?
[14:46] <seb128> without having to do that manually
[14:46] <seb128> if you install it that's probably to use it
[14:46] <seb128> or is that some sort of gconf list you would need to edit?
[14:47] <kenvandine> i think gconf
[14:47] <seb128> ok, that sucks
[14:47] <seb128> anyway it's a good start
[14:47] <kenvandine> so we would need to change that in xchat-gnome and make it depend/recommends etc
[14:47] <seb128> let me know when you want sponsoring
[14:47] <kenvandine> ok
[14:47] <seb128> I would be in favor of no blinking too
[14:47] <seb128> if you want to fix that
[14:48] <seb128> I think that's the main interest of the indicator
[14:48] <seb128> to avoid having things stressing you
[14:48] <seb128> they just go there
[14:49] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:54] <chrisccoulson> wow,  my DSL connection is no faster than dial-up this afternoon!
[14:55] <vish> mpt: hi...around?
[14:55] <mpt> hi vish
[14:55] <vish> mpt: Bug 194472 is awaiting your higher intervention ;)
[14:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, very fast dial-up or very slow dsl? ;-)
[14:56] <vish> mpt: i asked matthiaz he mentioned he wasnt very sure of what you suggested
[14:57] <vish> mpt: he said your comments on the bug were a bit unclear ... he wasnt sure if the need to change the default behavior in sudo or to change the behavior in the other apps
[14:58] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm getting about 40kbps at the moment ;)
[14:59] <pitti> seb128: do you happen to know when the next gst release will be? (for bug 460535)
[15:00] <seb128> pitti, no
[15:00] <seb128> slomo, ^
[15:01] <pitti> bryyce: WDYT about the patch for bug 494627? it sounds important to get into a2
[15:03] <seb128> pitti, it has been uploaded
[15:03] <seb128> xorg-server (2:1.7.3.902-1ubuntu1) lucid; urgency=low
[15:03] <seb128>   [ Michael Vogt ]
[15:03] <seb128>   * Add 101_nv-crash-fix.diff: Do not crash if gamma_set is NULL.
[15:03] <seb128>     (LP: #494627)
[15:03] <seb128> pitti, no?
[15:07] <pitti> seb128: hm, the bug is still open
[15:07] <pitti> ah, someone reopened it apparently?
[15:08] <seb128> I didn't look at the bug
[15:08] <rodrigo__> pitti, seb128: are there branches for karmic packages?
[15:08] <seb128> just lucid-changes
[15:08] <slomo> seb128: pre-releases should be there in a few days iirc
[15:08] <seb128> pitti, ^
[15:08] <pitti> yay
[15:08] <seb128> slomo, thanks
[15:08] <rodrigo__> that is, I'm going to submit a lucid package, but I'm wondering what to do if I later have a karmic change, since trunk would be lucid
[15:08] <pitti> rodrigo__: not for ~ubuntu-desktop, just the auto-imports; feel free to create a branch if you need one, though
[15:08] <rodrigo__> pitti: not for now, just want to submit a lucid package
[15:09] <rodrigo__> so I'll create one if I need to
[15:11] <tjaalton> pitti: right, closed again
[15:11] <pitti> tjaalton: heh, me too
[15:14] <seb128> ok
[15:15] <seb128> I'm away for some erands
[15:15] <seb128> bbl
[15:16] <seb128> kenvandine, let me know if you need any sponsoring or anything
[15:16] <seb128> I will read backlog later
[15:16] <seb128> bbl
[15:17] <kenvandine> ok, i need to run out in a few too
[15:17] <kenvandine> driving my daughter to school... they delayed school 2 hours because of snow... which never happened
[15:18] <rickspencer3_> I did a dist-upgrade yesterday, and my window manager is hilariously messed up
[15:19]  * rickspencer3_ switches to compiz
[15:20] <rickspencer3_> much better
[15:20] <mvo> compiz ftw ;)
[15:27] <pitti> davidbarth, kenvandine: would you mind updating the DX integration status on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus ?
[15:28]  * kenvandine runs out for a few... back in about 30m
[15:31] <rickspencer3_> pitti, I guess that's a "no" from kenvandine
[15:31] <rickspencer3_> ;)
[15:31] <pitti> heh
[15:31] <Hobbsee> well, that all depends on how long you want to wait ;)
[15:31] <pitti> seb128: do you happen to know what happened DX integration-wise this week?
[15:31] <pitti> Hobbsee: 29 minutes :)
[15:32] <Hobbsee> pitti: then he'll have 2 mins to do it :P
[15:32] <mpt> vish, done
[15:32] <Hobbsee> should be no great problem, on that basis
[15:32] <vish> mpt: awesome.. thanks :)
[15:35] <rickspencer3_> pitti, check out what bdmurray did for us:
[15:35] <rickspencer3_> http://people.canonical.com/~brian/tmp/canoncial-desktop-team-assigned.json
[15:35] <rickspencer3_> it runs once per night
[15:36] <rickspencer3_> and is integrated with bughugger
[15:39] <davidbarth> pitti: updating the work items atm, will do next
[15:40] <pitti> davidbarth: cheers
[15:40] <pitti> rickspencer3_: sweet!
[15:41] <davidbarth> pitti: if you want to trigger your scripts to rebuild the b-down charts, the dx graph should look different
[15:41] <vish> mpt: I'm confused... you want the feedback shown ... or is the comment to leave the behavior as it is now...  shall I unassign the papercut bug?
[15:41] <mpt> vish, I'm saying it should depend on what server administrators want, not on what desktop users want.
[15:42] <pitti> davidbarth: rebuilding
[15:42] <pitti> davidbarth: (note that it always takes some 10 minutes before whiteboard changes propagate to production DB)
[15:42] <vish> mpt: since papercuts are for the desktop users .. so the bug is not a papercut it that sense..right?
[15:43] <pitti> davidbarth: ERROR: dx-lucid-application-indicator: invalid state "inprogress (blocked in the packaging queue)" for work item "[agateau] add dbusmenu support to kdelibs"
[15:43] <mpt> vish, I don't know. I think the Server team has been doing papercuts, but I don't know whether they use a project for it, and if so, what one.
[15:43] <pitti> davidbarth: otherwise, updated
[15:44] <vish> mpt: ok... thanks...
[15:46] <rickspencer3_> pitti, to entice you to take a look at bughugger:
[15:46] <rickspencer3_> http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2010/01/more-bug-reporting-tools.html
[15:52] <asac> pitti: will there be a run for work items in 10 minutes?
[15:52] <asac> ;)
[15:53] <pitti> asac: yes
[15:54] <pitti> rickspencer3_: *excited* gravity column? sweet!
[15:54] <pitti> rickspencer3_: although arguably that's not really useful for assigned bugs
[15:54] <rickspencer3_> pitti, not *as* useful for sure
[15:55] <pitti> I'd love to sort by gravity for untriaged/unassigned bugs in my packages
[15:55] <rickspencer3_> pitti, you can totally do that with bughugger
[15:55] <rickspencer3_> bzr branch lp:bughugger
[15:55] <pitti> Package: bughugger
[15:55] <pitti> Status: install ok installed
[15:55] <rickspencer3_> cd bughugger
[15:55] <pitti> :)
[15:55] <rickspencer3_> quickly run
[15:55] <pitti> ah, for crack of the day
[15:55] <rickspencer3_> pitti, you want to use the branch, the PPA is a bit out of date
[15:55] <rickspencer3_> I'm going to just try to get it strait into universe next week
[15:56]  * pitti does that the
[16:09] <djsiegel> seb128: is gwibber still shipping?
[16:13] <rickspencer3_> djsiegel, maybe I don't understand your question, but we are expecting to put it onto the CD in main to support the Me Menu
[16:13] <djsiegel> rickspencer3_: ah, ok
[16:13] <djsiegel> I just meant, is gwibber going to be a standalone, user-facing application in Lucid
[16:14] <rickspencer3_> djsiegel, I'
[16:14] <rickspencer3_> m sure how we are going to handle the UI part, but I assume it will be a stand alone app so there is some way to view your microblog feeds
[16:14] <rickspencer3_> also, the configuration components are needed for Me Menu
[16:14] <djsiegel> ok
[16:29] <djsiegel> itorrey: http://github.com/phl/Fadomatic
[16:40] <geser> does somebody know of any objections to not sync/merge mutter from Debian testing? I'd ask didrocks as he did the Ubuntu packages but he doesn't seem to be here
[17:13] <asac> geser: maybe check with njpatel ... not sure if he knows anything about mutter
[17:14] <asac> geser: also maybe check with pauliu ... he did that for OEM afaik
[17:14] <asac> paulliu actually
[17:15] <njpatel> asac: geser: I haven't tested out mutter from testing, but this would be the time to get it in I think
[17:15] <asac> is mutter used anywhere on images?
[17:15] <kenvandine> tseliot, ping
[17:16] <tseliot> kenvandine: pong
[17:16] <pitti> don't think so; it's still in universe
[17:16] <asac> geser: otherwise, just go ahead
[17:16] <kenvandine> tseliot, there are unreleased changes in the bzr branch for jockey
[17:16] <kenvandine> tseliot, can those get uploaded?
[17:16]  * kenvandine needs to get a patch uploaded
[17:16] <asac> if you could check if all build depends for carrick are in debian i would be even happier
[17:16] <asac> ;)
[17:16]  * asac feels to ask for too much
[17:16] <tseliot> kenvandine: not without the new nvidia common which in turn requires my nvidia drivers
[17:17] <kenvandine> ok, i will do a debdiff without your changes then :)
[17:18] <tseliot> kenvandine: good
[17:18] <kenvandine> thx
[17:18] <tseliot> thanks for asking ;)
[17:37] <pitti> good bye everyone, have a nice weekend!
[17:45] <rickspencer3_> see you in Paris pitti!
[17:57] <djsiegel> cassidy: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/217582/Files%20Shared%20from%20GNOME%20Do/Screenshot-2-1213890507.png ?
[18:01] <mpt> mvo, Empathy now has buttons in rows too: ^^
[18:01] <vish> mpt: thats a mockup ;)
[18:01] <mpt> It is?
[18:01] <mpt> durn
[18:01] <vish> mpt: djsiegel fooled me too :)
[18:02] <djsiegel> mpt: yeah, sorry
[18:02] <djsiegel> I am trying to persuade them not to put buttons-that-look-like-icons-that-reveal-a-small-context-menu-when-clicked
[18:02] <djsiegel> in ever row
[18:02] <djsiegel> every*
[18:32] <seb128> re
[18:32] <seb128> pitti, I see davidbarth did it
[18:33] <seb128> geser, go for it that will fix gnome-shell
[18:33] <seb128> geser, you might need replaces in ubuntu so no sync
[18:33] <seb128> djsiegel, what rickspencer3 replied
[18:33] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[18:33] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[18:34] <seb128> how are you?
[18:34] <rickspencer3> excited
[18:35] <rickspencer3> looking forward to Paris
[18:35] <seb128> about?
[18:35] <seb128> oh right ;-)
[18:35] <rickspencer3> haven't been there in 24 years!
[18:35] <rickspencer3> (well, except the airport)
[18:35] <rickspencer3> and looking forward to seeing didrocks, and pitti and Neil, and davidbarth, etc...
[18:35] <seb128> (which we will not talk about right? ;-)
[18:36] <seb128> is your french ready for that now you think? ;-)
[18:36] <rickspencer3> seb128, sadly not
[18:36] <seb128> yeah
[18:36] <rickspencer3> I was practicing, though
[18:36] <seb128> I'm pondering joining for a day
[18:36] <seb128> I will see next week how the week turns
[18:36] <rickspencer3> seb128, sounds good
[18:36] <rickspencer3> no pressure
[18:36] <seb128> I don't need to book anything in advance if I want to come
[18:36] <seb128> I just have to catch a train
[18:36] <rickspencer3> kewl
[18:38] <rickspencer3> looks like the desktop team did quite a good job for a2
[18:38] <seb128> \o/
[18:38] <rickspencer3> very good progress
[18:38] <seb128> I'm just slightly unhappy about login speed
[18:38] <seb128> we still have lot to win there
[18:38] <rickspencer3> this is keeping me away at night
[18:38] <rickspencer3> I did discuss this with robbiew at length
[18:38] <asac> away ;)?
[18:39] <asac> hehe
[18:39] <rickspencer3> I don't know what is going to happen
[18:39] <seb128> I don't think the target is doable to be honest
[18:39] <seb128> but let's see what we manage to do
[18:39] <rickspencer3> but we had to cut touch UI, a lot of social from the start features, etc...
[18:39] <seb128> there is just a limit of what you can do on a sucky cpu in a few seconds
[18:40] <rickspencer3> so I am wondering if we've hit the point of diminishing returns in terms of user benefits
[18:40] <asac> how much time is currently needed/wanted?
[18:40] <rickspencer3> asac, we're supposed to be down to 4 seconds, and we are 10+ now
[18:40] <asac> (just curious)
[18:40] <asac> ouch. ok
[18:41] <asac> so maybe dont start nautilus ;)
[18:41] <asac> or isnt that even in that time?
[18:41] <rickspencer3> well, that 10+ is like half of where we used to be
[18:41] <asac> j.k.
[18:41] <rickspencer3> asac, I think we would also have to not start gnome panel
[18:41] <asac> yeah. feels like a good improvement if it doesnt get better
[18:41] <rickspencer3> so, the desktop wouldn't have too much value in that state ;)
[18:41] <asac> gnome panel is indeed kind of slow
[18:42] <rickspencer3> in the meantime, it is still our goal to hit the target
[18:42] <seb128> asac, well not starting nautilus is an option
[18:42] <seb128> we still have some 8 seconds
[18:42] <seb128> nautilus is not the limiting part
[18:42] <asac> thats why i mentioned it first ... on my desktop nautilus startup time is really annoying sometimes
[18:43] <seb128> and those take some 8 seconds on the atm
[18:43] <seb128> atom
[18:43] <asac> like i start working and then at some point mounts auto pop up etc.
[18:43] <seb128> but 3 seconds on my 2 years old laptop config
[18:43] <seb128> that's not nautilus
[18:43] <rickspencer3> a3 is start up time, proprietary driver robustness, a couple of social from the start items, firefox support mdoel, and UNE
[18:43] <seb128> that's probably the devicekit layer events coming late
[18:43] <rickspencer3> at a high level
[18:43] <asac> the popping up certinaly doesnt happen before nautilus is loaded. for me it felt that it happens exactly when the nautilus stuff finished
[18:44] <asac> but right. could be independent
[18:44] <seb128> if you have good cpu nautilus start in some 3 seconds
[18:44] <seb128> at least on my dua centrino 2.4G
[18:44] <asac> which can be much if gnome-panel is also still rumbling
[18:44] <seb128> the mini atom takes 8 seconds
[18:44] <asac> or isnt that in parallel (felt that way)
[18:44] <seb128> it is
[18:45] <seb128> but you might have a slow disk and hit io limits?
[18:45] <asac> could be. its a X61 lenovo ... so not that old
[18:45] <asac> but disk is definitly not fastest
[18:45] <asac> but i hope i can say that i have a good average computer for our market :)
[18:45] <seb128> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20100106-2.png
[18:46] <asac> but my nautilus and gnome-panel are customized ... so not comparable to clean install
[18:46] <seb128> it's where we stand now on the mini
[18:46] <asac> otoh, i hate windows for getting slower over time ... this isnt the same in that it doesnt get worse at some point, but feels a bit like it if you start with aclean system
[18:47] <seb128> asac, you take that laptop at the sprint?
[18:47] <seb128> we can have a look to login speed there if you want...
[18:48] <asac> hmm. the bootchart doesnt show when a process is in io wait?
[18:48] <asac> or is it just not recognizable?
[18:48] <seb128> asac, it does
[18:49] <seb128> it's red on the bars
[18:49] <seb128> the mini is ssd drive
[18:49] <seb128> there is no io issue there
[18:49] <seb128> the issue is purely cpu use
[18:49] <seb128> see the charts
[18:49] <seb128> graphs
[18:49] <asac> i dont say io throughput, but waiting on io ... like sleeping on a select/poll
[18:49] <seb128> the first one, blue, is cpu
[18:49] <asac> i would think all white areas are like that
[18:49] <seb128> oh, I don't think bootchart can tell that
[18:50] <seb128> but I don't know about better tools either
[18:50] <seb128> so we use that for now
[18:50] <asac> point is if there are is like white areas in the middle of blue ones, that usually means its waiting for sometihng
[18:50] <asac> if that is paired with no red anywhere, its not optimally scaled
[18:50] <mvo> mpt: hey, its easy to add those buttons when not in fixed-height mode
[18:51] <mpt> mvo, I guess contact lists don't get nearly as long
[18:51] <mvo> mpt: its really only a issue with very big datasets that are displayed
[18:51] <mpt> yah
[18:51] <mvo> mpt: yeah
[18:51] <mvo> mpt: I haven't had time yet, but it should be easy to write something to try it out
[18:51] <mvo> mpt: then we test performance on a netbook, if its reaonsable there, then we can do it
[18:51] <seb128> asac, well the blue curve indicates it's 100%cpu all time
[18:52] <seb128> so I would think it's cpu bounded
[18:52] <seb128> why would it sit there doing nothing?
[18:53] <rickspencer3> hiya didrocks
[18:53] <mvo> mpt: actually that is a interessting mockup, because AFAIK there are still no real buttons available, I can only do the fake buttons (as the arrow buttons we have currently) that are close to the real thing
[18:53] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[18:53] <rickspencer3> seb128, do you use evo?
[18:55] <didrocks> hey mvo and seb128 :)
[18:56] <asac> seb128: so what is gnome-panel doing in the 2/4 section where is so much white?
[18:57] <seb128> hey didrocks
[18:57] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes
[18:58] <rickspencer3> seb128, is there a function to archive a folder on a disc locally?
[18:58] <seb128> asac, dunno, I've been profiling nautilus so far
[18:58] <rickspencer3> like export to a .gz?
[18:58] <seb128> rickspencer3, not that I know
[18:58] <seb128> rickspencer3, I usually create a mbox account and creates folders there
[18:58] <seb128> and copy emails to that
[18:58] <rickspencer3> ok
[18:59] <seb128> it give you files in a dir
[18:59] <seb128> one mbox file by box
[18:59] <rickspencer3> makes sense
[18:59] <seb128> box = folder
[18:59] <mvo> hey didrocks, happy new year!
[18:59] <rickspencer3> I tried dragging the emails to a directory and evo went all nutty
[18:59] <seb128> asac, the cpu is still at 100% though
[18:59] <seb128> asac, so it might be waiting on applets to load
[19:00] <seb128> that's done in a sync way
[19:00] <didrocks> mvo: happy new year to you too :)
[19:00] <seb128> rickspencer3, weird
[19:00] <seb128> sorry I've to go for dinner
[19:00] <seb128> see you laer!
[19:00] <seb128> later
[19:00] <rickspencer3> bye bye seb128
[19:16] <baptistemm> pitti, about hal deprecation I don't remember you mentionned cheese
[19:17] <baptistemm> hmm, hal is not a debian dependence of cheese
[19:19] <rickspencer3> baptistemm, there is a bug on cheese depending on hal
[19:19] <rickspencer3> I think seb128 mentioned that hal dependency is removed in upstream git
[19:19] <baptistemm> because I can see it crying because of missing hal :)
[19:19] <rickspencer3> yeah
[19:19] <rickspencer3> you have to install hal and then run sudo hald :/
[19:20] <baptistemm> okay cheese has switched to libgudev I guess
[19:20] <rickspencer3> so the plan is, I think, to get the halectimized version into lucid, and if we can't do that, then we'll have to figure out how to start hal from a dbus signal
[19:22] <bryyce> rickspencer3, wow that'd suck if we brough back hal for cheese, after all the pain we've taken getting X to not need it ;-)
[19:22] <rickspencer3> bryyce, well, we wouldn't "bring it back" in it's current form
[19:23] <rickspencer3> but I seriously doubt this is going to happen
[19:23] <rickspencer3> my point was just, we'll support cheese
[19:23] <rickspencer3> it would suck to not have cheese for netbooks
[19:26] <bryyce> rickspencer3, btw dunno if you saw my blueprint update, but wacom tablets are still broken from the hal removal
[19:28]  * mvo celebrates commit r500 in software-center
[19:29] <rickspencer3> bummmer
[19:29] <rickspencer3> bryyce, what's the plan?
[19:30]  * rickspencer3 high fives mvo
[19:30] <bryyce> rickspencer3, I added a note about it in the release notes
[19:31] <rickspencer3> bryyce, do you envision being fixed for a3?
[19:31] <bryyce> rickspencer3, I hope so.  We're stuck waiting on upstream to do the development work to move from hal to udev
[19:32]  * rickspencer3 nods
[19:32] <rickspencer3> bryyce, let's strive to hold back on commitments to make sure we have bandwidth post a3 to address issues like this
[19:33]  * rickspencer3 subtly reinforces point from last team meeting
[19:33] <bryyce> I notice from the burn-down charts that we still have more tasks to do than we've done so far ;-)
[19:34] <rickspencer3> bryyce, right
[19:34] <rickspencer3> so we know for a fact we aren't going to get them all done
[19:34] <rickspencer3> so we should decide now what's not going to get done
[19:35] <rickspencer3> dissapoint people now, rather than suprise and piss them off later
[19:35] <rickspencer3> ;)
[19:35] <bryyce> yeah...  and I know I've been neglecting bug triaging in order to get all the a2 tasks done
[19:45] <kenvandine> sigh
[19:47] <kenvandine> seb128, seems some of the DX packages aren't uploadable by ~ubuntu-desktop for lucid, but they are for karmic
[19:56] <seb128> re
[19:56] <seb128> kenvandine, I can sponsor but not fix upload rights
[19:56] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah, i asked cjwatson
[19:56] <seb128> I noticed
[19:57] <seb128> but in case he can't fix it today I can upload
[19:57] <seb128> it's late in the week for new sources though
[19:57] <seb128> we need an uploader and a reviewer to accept it
[19:57] <seb128> and I think pitti left for the weekend
[19:59] <geser> yes, he left 2 hours ago
[20:01] <seb128> ok...
[20:01] <seb128> rickspencer3, didrocks: where is the sprint next week btw?
[20:02] <seb128> where in paris to be specific
[20:11] <rickspencer3> seb128,
[20:11] <rickspencer3> Hotel Caumartin
[20:11] <rickspencer3> 29 Rue de Caumartin
[20:11] <rickspencer3> 75009 Paris
[20:11] <rickspencer3> we're actually staying at the hotel next door
[20:16] <baptistemm> nice place to stay it seems :)
[20:16] <baptistemm> lucky you
[20:20] <rickspencer3> baptistemm, as I say, we are staying next door
[20:20] <rickspencer3> probably a campground or something ;)
[20:20] <baptistemm> I'm not sure you can find one in Paris :)
[20:20] <rickspencer3> heh
[20:20] <baptistemm> perhaps on the Champs de Mars :)
[20:20]  * rickspencer3 lunches
[20:20] <rickspencer3> bbl
[20:21] <baptistemm> just under the Effeil Tower feets :)
[20:22] <seb128> lol
[20:22] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[20:22] <seb128> rickspencer3, I think I will come for at least one day
[20:22] <seb128> I might stay one night somewhere
[20:22] <seb128> since return option suck for dinner
[20:22] <seb128> ie train is 20:30
[20:23] <seb128> anyway we can discuss that next week
[20:23] <seb128> enjoy lunch
[20:23] <seb128> I will probable come on tuesday or wednesday
[20:35] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[20:37] <baptistemm> hey chrisccoulson
[20:37] <chrisccoulson> hey baptistemm, how are you?
[20:37] <baptistemm> fine, we reached the week end
[20:40] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm - yeah, i like the weekend :)
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> right, time for me to terminate my contract with my DSL provider :(
[21:20] <ccheney> asac: hmm maybe you were right about OOo, apparently it can't build because arm is in a bad state atm, kdelibs5-dev is uninstallable
[21:20] <kenvandine> ccheney, i am actually having the same problem on amd64
[21:20] <ccheney> OOo itself shouldn't take too long to build but requires things be installed, heh
[21:21] <ccheney> kenvandine: oh so just general kdelibs5-dev breakage i guess?
[21:21] <kenvandine> couldn't build jockey because it can't get kdelibs5-data
[21:21] <kenvandine> ccheney, sounds like it
[21:22] <ccheney> ok
[21:23] <ccheney> well OOo should be able to build by next thur hopefully