persiaIt's with a #00:11
=== jMyles_ is now known as jMyles
dholbachporthose, randomaction: you guys around?07:05
dholbachright now we have a bit of a quorum problem... persia and nixternal are there, but we need one MC member more :)07:05
nixternalMC Hammer!07:06
dholbachbut I'm sure we'll manage to get there in a bit07:06
dholbachnixternal: I'm sure you still have one of those very baggy, pink pants from the 90s? :)07:07
* dholbach is going to text soren07:07
nixternalping no, a light colored red yes07:07
nixternalpink, not ping07:07
* porthose waves :)07:07
* persia dithers harder07:22
* soren wanders in08:03
nixternalright as dholbach went to walk his dog08:04
persiaThe timing is truly unfortunate08:04
* porthose yawns and tries not to fall asleep on his key board08:07
persiaporthose: If you're that tired, you might want to try another time.  I'm not convinced we'll have quorum soon, or even at all.08:07
persiaSome people are not yet around, and some people are falling asleep.08:08
nixternalporthose: you and I both08:08
porthosepersia, I can hang for a while longer :)08:08
nixternal02:10 herezzzZZZZzzZzZzzZz08:09
porthosenixternal, same for me ;)08:10
* soren chuckles08:17
sorenI just realised dholbach created my calendar entry for this meeting. :)08:18
sorendholbach: What's your secret trick to knowing the right time in spite of Google Calendar? :)08:18
dholbachsoren: I did that ages ago08:36
sorendholbach: What? Added that calendar entry?08:42
nixternalgo go go08:42
nixternalporthose and I are falling asleep08:42
nixternalnot together though08:42
dholbachsoren: yep08:43
porthosenixternal, haha :)08:43
sorendholbach: Can you move it, please? That'll give me a better chance of being on time. :)08:44
dholbachso we're one member short again.. I'd propose to have the meeting now and ask questions and do the vote via mail... does that sound alright to you?08:45
porthosedholbach, yes08:45
dholbachnixternal, soren?08:46
dholbachmaybe we're lucky and jpds or geser turn up :)08:46
nixternalpersia might turn back up as well08:46
nixternalseeing as your dog walk lasted more than 20 minutes :p08:46
MootBotMeeting started at 02:47. The chair is dholbach.08:47
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]08:47
dholbach[LINK] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting08:47
MootBotLINK received:  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting08:47
dholbach[TOPIC] Charlie Smotherman's MOTU application08:47
MootBotNew Topic:  Charlie Smotherman's MOTU application08:47
dholbachhey porthose... how are you doing? what time is it over there?08:47
porthosea little tired but other wise ok 0248hrs :)08:48
dholbachwow... that's dedication08:48
* dholbach has no more questions ;-)08:48
dholbachporthose: so what are your plans once you're MOTU, anything specific for lucid and lucid+1?08:49
nixternalthat would have been my only question for porthose seeing as we have questioned him who knows how many times in the past already :)08:49
porthoseThe major thing I have planned is to get more involved in the mentoring program08:50
porthoseas a mentor that is :)08:50
dholbachporthose: we had a couple of discussions about that before... how do you think people best spend their time as a mentor?08:50
nixternalwe have quorum now dholbach08:51
persiaI have a new question :)  porthose: You say that the only thing you dislike is Ubuntu developers who do not submit their patches to Debian.  What sort of strategies might we employ to reduce the effort required to determine if a given patch is appropriate for Debian, or do you think we should expect the Debian Developers to make the decisions?08:51
porthosedholbach, I would say insuring that prospective developers have a good knowledge of the basic processes08:52
* nixternal remembers this discussion previously08:52
porthosepersia, to answer your question is to make sure that while mentoring prospective developers patches that should be sent upstream are sent upstream08:53
nixternalnow I have a question to follow up on persia just to make sure I am not mixing this up, but didn't you list that same problem when you did universe-contributor, and your numerous per package rights applications?08:53
porthosenixternal, yes08:53
dholbachporthose: and what kind of activities do you suggest? there's already a lot of patch review and sponsoring going on, what else should a mentor do (that the general developer community can't)?08:54
nixternalok, thought so, as I asked a similar question to persia's before08:54
nixternalsee persia, my brain isn't that bad afterall :p08:54
persianixternal: very similar :)08:54
nixternaland i have one closed08:54
porthosementors IMHO develop a personal one on one relationship with the mentee, thus creating trust08:56
persiaporthose: Where I'm curious is about the decision process for determining if a given patch belongs in Debian.  Clearly you're (still) not happy with the nature of the decisions taken in general, and so I wonder what we can do to make you happy with the decisions.08:57
porthosethis trust can be utilized to discuss the weaknesses of the mentee and thus the mentor is able to concentrate on improving these areas08:57
dholbachporthose: I was just interested to see how you think our general approach of teaching (docs, sessions, videos, help on irc and mailing lists, patch review, etc.) fits in with the more personal mentoring08:59
dholbachok, but my question is answered :)09:00
dholbachpersia, nixternal, soren: more questions?09:00
nixternalnone here09:01
sorenNo, I think porthose has been grilled plenty.09:01
* persia still kinda wants an answer09:01
sorenToday and in the past :)09:01
porthosepersia, I am a happy with the decision process for determining if patches go upstream, it's just that not all people do it.  to include myself, some time it is just a forgotten step in a persons work flow :)09:03
persiaporthose: So you feel that the reason patches don't go to Debian is because people don't bother, rather than because they can't decide?09:03
persiaIs there anything we could do to reduce the effort (grab the Debian package, build in a Debian environment, test in a Debian environment) that might make people do it more?09:04
porthosepersia, to me it just comes natural to test in a debian and ubuntu chroot, because I do maintain packages in debian, an so that is how I would also mentor09:06
porthoseI reall don't think it is because people don't bother, I think they just forget09:06
dholbachgeser: questions? :)09:07
* geser has no questions09:08
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Charlie Smotherman become a MOTU?09:08
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Charlie Smotherman become a MOTU?.09:08
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot09:08
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting09:08
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 109:08
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 209:08
MootBot+1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 309:08
dholbachsoren, geser?09:08
MootBot+1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 409:08
MootBot+1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 509:09
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 509:09
dholbachcongratulations porthose!09:09
nixternalcongrats porthose !09:09
persiaCongratulations porthose09:09
porthoseThank You MC :)09:09
dholbachrandomaction: still there? :)09:09
persiaWelcome tothe team :)09:09
dholbach[TOPIC] Ilya Barygin's MOTU Application09:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Ilya Barygin's MOTU Application09:09
* porthose dances around the room and high fives his dog :)09:09
dholbachrandomaction: how are you doing today? :)09:09
randomactionfine, thank you09:10
persiarandomaction: So, you say you need better changelogs.  Could you describe a perfect changelog entry?09:11
randomactionsure, explain what you did, which files were changed, what bugs you close, possibly reference other things of interest09:12
randomactione.g. "this should be dropped after [some thing] happens"09:13
dholbachrandomaction: your work seems to be quite diverse... how do you usually decide what you work on?09:13
randomactionpresently I mostly work on merges09:14
randomactionI have a list of outstanding merges sorted by last-changed-in-Ubuntu date09:14
randomactionso I request merges/syncs for packages that were touched long ago and were probably forgotten09:15
dholbachok, I just had a look at your application again and you mentioned other QA activity too, like ftbfs fixes, etc09:15
randomactionyes, I plan to switch focus there after FF09:15
dholbachrandomaction: how do you think we can fix the problem with the inclusion o fnew packages?09:15
dholbach... of new packages09:15
randomactionthis is hard - first you need to understand whether Ubuntu is all-inclusive or not09:16
persiarandomaction: Do you believe it to be all-inclusive or not?09:17
dholbachand what does all-inclusive mean in this case? :)09:17
randomactionmany packages are proposed by their authors, so it's hard to decide whether it's gonna be used by many people09:17
randomactionit's "people should not need to go anywhere else except official repos" vs "we should only include software that adds value / needed by many / etc"09:19
randomactionas things stand not, relatively few packages go through REVU, so as it happens only packages with sufficient interest are included09:19
persiarandomaction: Do you have a preference for how Ubuntu should be?09:20
randomactionI think that there should be at least some selectiveness09:20
persiaWhat sort of criteria should apply?09:21
randomaction(and we have it now, at the cost of hundreds unreviewed packages)09:21
randomactionprobably something similar to Debian, can't remember what exactly they are, but they say something like "if you have a random piece of free software, don't expect it to be included automatically"09:22
persiaWell, Debian expects someone to take responsibility for maintaining it as one of the criteria.  How might we handle a similar thing in the absence of defined maintainers?09:23
randomactionthat said, if some software catches interest of, say, two Ubuntu devs, I think it's going to be included09:24
randomactionUbuntu's packages not in Debian need maintenance09:24
randomactionso effectively the one who uploaded a package should take care of it09:24
dholbachyou mean whoever packaged it, right?09:25
randomactioneven if not listed as an official maintainer09:25
persiaOr whoever uploaded it?09:25
randomactionyes, whoever packaged, as getting sponsorship is quite easy (yay for the empty queue btw!)09:25
dholbachok :)09:26
persiarandomaction: How do you feel about the use of new packaging as a way to learn packaging?09:26
persia(this is one argument for lots of REVU that has been used in the past)09:26
randomactionthe more problematic the package, the more you will learn :)09:27
randomactionif rules.tiny works ok, you won't learn much I guess09:27
randomactionexperience is gained by seeing different situations and understanding what happens where09:28
dholbachgeser, soren, nixternal: more questions?09:30
nixternalnone here09:30
gesernone here09:30
* dholbach neither09:30
dholbachpersia: you're done?09:30
persiaWell, I could probe at this for a while, but I don't need the discussion to make a decision.09:31
dholbachok :)09:31
dholbachok.. I take that as a yes :)09:33
dholbach[VOTE] Shall Ilya Barygin become MOTU?09:34
MootBotPlease vote on:  Shall Ilya Barygin become MOTU?.09:34
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot09:34
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting09:34
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 109:34
MootBot+1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 209:34
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 309:34
MootBot+1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 409:34
* persia pokes soren with a sharper stick09:35
* soren rushes back in09:35
MootBot+1 received from soren. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 509:35
sorenSorry, guys.09:35
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 509:35
nixternalcongrats randomaction09:35
dholbachcongratulations randomaction!09:36
persiaWelcome randomaction09:36
randomactionthank you09:36
sorenIt's like these meetings seem like an invite to random people to come and knock on my door.09:36
nixternalalrighty, off to bed for me09:36
nixternalg'nite all!09:36
dholbachnight nixternal09:36
dholbach[TOPIC] Any other business?09:36
MootBotNew Topic:  Any other business?09:36
dholbachWho's going to do the honours?09:37
persiaAs long as we're quorate in a formal meeting, I may as well confirm that we're happy to accept recommendations from the DMB on Contributing Developers until the Community Council completes the action from their recent decision.09:37
dholbachwho's going to process the applications and everything?09:39
dholbachgeser, soren, persia, nixternal, jpds, nhandler: ^? :-)09:39
persiaI can do them in about 22 hours, but if someone can get to them faster, that would be better.09:39
* dholbach has a bunch of other stuff to do today, but as nobody seems to volunteer I'll try to squeeze it in09:41
dholbachanything else?09:41
persiadholbach: Then if you miss, I'll get it early your tomorrow :)09:41
dholbachthanks everybody!09:41
MootBotMeeting finished at 03:42.09:42
=== DaZ_ is now known as DaZ
=== fader|away is now known as fader_
=== robbiew1 is now known as robbiew
pittihello all15:57
* slangasek waves15:57
* fader_ waves.15:57
ev(standing in for cjwatson)15:57
fader_I am standing in for marjo today.15:58
* apw waves in a kernely way16:00
* asac waves16:01
slangasekdavidm, ogra, Riddell, jiboumans, ScottK, pgraner, njpatel, jdstrand: ping16:01
slangasekhi all16:02
MootBotMeeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.16:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:02
pittiRiddell: hey Jonathan, thanks for joining in your holidays16:02
slangasek[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-01-0816:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-01-0816:02
Riddellpitti: it's not my holidays (as far as I know?)16:02
pittiRiddell: oh, I thought so; nevermind then16:02
slangasek[TOPIC] actions from previous meeting16:02
MootBotNew Topic:  actions from previous meeting16:03
slangasek  * slangasek to confirm with asac how to get the list of packages that still need rebuilt for arm toolchain16:03
slangasek  * ttx, zul to target all the canonical-application-support MIRs to lucid, and milestone to alpha-216:03
slangasek  * slangasek to check on ld segfault on powerpc building qt4-x11 (DONE, but handed back to kubuntu team to figure out how to integrate the workaround...)16:03
ttxslangasek: done16:03
slangasekttx: ta16:03
Riddellqt4-x11 compiled on powerpc16:03
Riddellthanks to slangasek for pointing us the way16:03
slangasekah, great!16:04
slangasekpiece of cake :)16:04
slangasek[TOPIC] QA Team16:04
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Team16:04
slangasekfader_: how are we doing?16:04
fader_* Hardware testing16:04
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current16:04
fader_passed:  7 (54%)   failed: 2 (15%)   untested: 4 (31%)16:04
fader_passed: 21 (80%)   failed: 3 (12%)   untested: 2 ( 8%)16:04
fader_passed: 45 (87%)   failed: 0 ( 0%)   untested: 7 (13%)16:04
fader_passed: 12 (92%)   failed: 1 ( 8%)   untested: 0 ( 0%)16:04
fader_Open bugs:16:04
fader_bug 49754616:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 497546 in pulseaudio "Microphones not working on Dell Vostro 320" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49754616:04
fader_bug 50370016:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 503700 in xorg-server "xorg segfaults on startup" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50370016:04
fader_bug 50431516:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 504315 in hibernate "Toshiba NB100 failed to resume from hibernate" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50431516:04
fader_We have several untested machines since the holidays, but they all appear to be for environmental reasons.16:05
fader_I am working my way through them and getting them tested, but it is taking me a bit to get through the backlog of them.  They should be all done by next week.16:05
MootBotLINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/qa/lucid/report.html16:05
fader_* UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests16:05
fader_        [cr3] Add DX PPA when testing and reboot if new packages are discovered: INPROGRESS16:05
fader_* UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-checkbox-integrate-regression-testing16:05
fader_        [cr3] fixed support for QRT-Packages from the qa regression testing suite; confirmed to work by sbeattie16:05
fader_* UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-kernel-test-automation16:05
fader_        [cr3] Initial daily kernel tests running by Lucid Alpha1: INPROGRESS16:05
fader_[cr3] The kernel tests (most of them) need sudo: INPROGRESS16:05
fader_* UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-iso-tracker16:05
fader_There is one work item still to go, a pending merge, so ara has asked that this be defered to alpha-3.  The rest of the work items will be in production next week.16:05
fader_* UbuntuSpec:qa-lucid-automated-server-testing16:05
fader_         nightly builds of a set of server packages (in a PPA) that will show us if something regresses16:05
fader_          sbeattie was trying to get some of the q-r-t tests running Checkbox, but had some issues with tests that wanted to run as root, which most (all?) of the server related ones did, so there's some Checkbox infrastructure work16:05
fader_needed there.16:05
fader_[end of massive text dump]16:06
pittifader_: so the netbook-launcher worked again?16:06
fader_pitti: No, it is still not working as of yesterday16:07
fader_I missed that in my open bugs, sorry16:07
pittifader_: should have been fixed today (bug 495066)16:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 495066 in clutk "Lucid netbook-launcher segfaults when started" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49506616:07
fader_pitti: I will re-test and make sure it's working now, thanks!16:07
pittiI just wondered16:07
* asac uploaded it ;) 16:07
asacfader_: thanks for testing.16:07
* pitti hugs asac16:07
asacwe couldnt verify because australia was already evening ;)16:08
fader_asac: Yeah, I saw the update to it in my email this morning but I haven't run any tests on the netbooks yet today16:08
fader_I believe you though, so it'll just be confirmation ;)16:08
slangasekfader_: are these various "in progress" items going to be done on time for alpha-2, as the milestone targeting implies they should?16:08
fader_slangasek: I don't know; cr3 might be able to answer for his items16:09
fader_I will ping him16:09
fader_(And ara's spec has been retargeted for alpha 3)16:10
cr3fader_: kernel tests are definately targetted for alpha-216:11
fader_cr3: What about the lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests spec?16:12
fader_[cr3] Add DX PPA when testing and reboot if new packages are discovered: INPROGRESS16:12
cr3fader_: not sure, I'll need to follow up with the DX folks on that one16:12
slangasekfader_: whic spec has been retargeted?  lucid-qa-iso-tracker is still targeted to alpha-216:13
fader_slangasek: Hmm, I was going based on what ara told me this morning that she had discussed it with marjo and he agreed to re-target it16:13
slangasekcr3: please do that today, so that if it's not going to land it can be retargeted16:13
fader_That's all the info I have; I know marjo is in training today so perhaps he has not updated lp because of that16:14
cr3slangasek: will do16:14
slangasekfader_: ok; will you follow up with marjo on this?16:14
fader_slangasek: Will do16:14
slangasek[ACTION] fader_ to check with marjo whether lucid-qa-iso-tracker is deferred to alpha-3, and re-target appropriately in LP16:15
MootBotACTION received:  fader_ to check with marjo whether lucid-qa-iso-tracker is deferred to alpha-3, and re-target appropriately in LP16:15
fader_though it may be late in the day before I can get an answer, as he is incommunicado16:15
* ScottK waves16:15
slangasekas a general note, we seem to be well above our burn lines in a lot of teams since the beginning of the year, which implies that a lot of these work items are not getting done before alpha-2; we need to make sure we're reviewing the status of what is or isn't getting deferred and document that in the status16:17
slangasekthe charts aren't a very effective tool if they don't reflect what's actually going on in teams16:17
slangasekany other concerns on qa?16:18
slangasekbug #503700> I'm hopeful that this might be a manifestation of the other X bug that's in progress, but we'll cover that under desktop16:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 503700 in xorg-server "xorg segfaults on startup" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50370016:18
fader_slangasek: Could be; I'm working on getting backtraces etc. for Bryce for it16:19
slangasekI've been trying to get a good backtrace out of X in lucid for over a month now16:19
slangasek(well, not fighting very hard, but apparently even working around the kernel bug doesn't do it)16:20
fader_I feel your pain16:20
slangasek[TOPIC] Desktop Team16:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Desktop Team16:20
slangasekfader_: thanks16:20
slangasekpitti: hi16:20
pittion that note, yesterday's kernel finally fixed apport16:20
pittithat should hopefully enable us to get better crash reports again16:20
pittiapport itself is enabled since Wednesday or so16:20
pittiI'll test it as soon as it lands in lucid16:20
pittiAs usual, our report is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus16:21
pittiIn the last two weeks we focused on:16:21
pitti- Got A2 specs done (except for two WIs which only affect external projects, not Ubuntu itself)16:21
pitti- More boot speed work16:21
pitti- New GNOME version16:21
pitti- New wave of DX integration yesterday and today16:21
pittiNo major changes planned for alpha-2 any more.16:21
pittiBug front is relatively quiet.16:21
slangasek[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus16:22
jdstrand(I just binary deNEWd 10.14)16:22
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus16:22
Riddellon the Kubuntu side KDE 4.4 Release Candidate packages are now uploaded and building16:22
pittiactually, the "two WIs left" is kind of a lie, which my new WI tracker just uncovered; we have three more for other teams (see http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-2.html)16:22
pittiI'll have a look at them after the meeting16:22
jdstrand(wrt new kernel hitting lucid)16:22
pittijdstrand: yay16:22
Riddellwe have three outstanding MIR bugs which are blocking where I'd like to be for alpha 216:22
RiddellI havn't caught up on must of the administrata since new year so spec and critical bug statuses I need to update next week16:23
pittibug 492931 just asks for enabling the test suite16:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 492931 in libssh "MIR for libssh" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49293116:24
pittiso this could be pre-promoted already16:24
pittiwhat are the other two?16:24
Riddellvirtuoso-opensource 50377416:24
Riddelllibdbusmenu-qt 50426716:24
asacafaik libssh had security team concerns? not sure if we should pre-promote it with that.16:24
pittiasac: pending test suite enablement, kees approved it16:25
pittiRiddell: please move those two to lucid/alpha-2, I'll have a look ASAP16:25
Riddellok thanks16:25
pitti(need to unbreak my browser first before I can add release targets, sorry)16:25
asacbrowser broken by todays update?16:26
pittiasac: no, greasemonkey stuff in lp-firefox-improvements16:26
slangasekI see from the report that bug #494627 is fixed as of 3h ago16:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 494627 in xorg-server "nv driver crashing with segmentation fault in libpthread.so.0" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49462716:27
slangasekfader_: ^^ that's the bug that I think might be the master for the nvidia issue you're seeing; can you prioritize retesting the hardware that was affected, to confirm?16:28
fader_slangasek: Will do; thanks16:28
fader_It sounds similar as I believe the segfaults we were seeing were all on nv hardware16:28
slangasek[ACTION] fader_ to verify whether 494627 == 503700 by re-testing affected hardware16:28
MootBotACTION received:  fader_ to verify whether 494627 == 503700 by re-testing affected hardware16:28
slangasekfwiw, I've got a segfault-on-lid-close that I think is also the same bug, on intel16:29
slangasekso I'll be eagerly retesting here :)16:29
slangasekanything further to discuss on desktop?16:29
slangasek[TOPIC] DX Team16:30
MootBotNew Topic:  DX Team16:30
slangasekpitti, Riddell: thanks16:30
slangasekdavidbarth, njpatel: hello16:30
davidbarthso DX was working this week on app. indicator mostly16:31
davidbarththe status is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus16:31
davidbarthof note16:31
davidbarthapp. indicator is mostly there and complete (as of planned for A2)16:31
davidbarthwe're getting a very positive feedback from the community, as well as a lot of help from the community team16:32
davidbarthwe're working on missing features that we'll land early in a3 (automatic updates and transparent fallback)16:32
slangasekdavidbarth: I see http://piware.de/workitems/dx/lucid-alpha2/report.html has been updated since yesterday, with items postponed as needed; are these postponed indefinitely, or do we now expect them to land later in the cycle?16:32
davidbarthbut they won't be in a2 for the freeze; ppa release16:32
davidbarthyes, that's the other part of the report16:33
slangasekok, please continue :)16:33
davidbartha lot of other work items have been postponed16:33
davidbarththat's not a great news, in that we expected to do a bit more (though not all); but it indicates that we over-commited a bit too much16:33
davidbarthwe assessed the situation with other managers and will be proposing a plan to adjust the scope to secure developments based on priorities16:34
davidbarththe session menu and the me menu have been split16:34
davidbarth(sorry not last)16:34
slangasekI guess the xsplash integration is going to hold up work on other teams for lucid, isn't it?  (boot performance / boot experience on foundations' side)16:35
davidbarthand for gtk patches; we have the argb support mostly there (bratsche is fixing the totem crasher as we speak)16:35
davidbarthbut cs-deco is at risk16:35
davidbarthwe couldn't get a review in time for gtk 2.20, so we're concerned that the distro-patch may be too big to carry for an LTS16:36
davidbarththat's the summary16:36
davidbarthquestions? on particular points?16:36
davidbarthxplash (sorry reading up the log)16:36
slangasekI think that's my only question presently16:37
davidbarthwe can't release a plugin version right now, though we have a branch with scott's code; but no time to really make that work for a216:37
davidbarthi understand this is preventing the integration check16:37
slangasekoh - I did also notice yesterday that there was a workitem assigned to canonical-foundations for dx-lucid-xsplash (again, the problem pitti mentioned in his mails about not seeing cross-team WI assignments) - have you guys talked to anyone specifically on foundations about doing this, or do we need to figure out on our side who can take it?16:38
slangasekright, not for a2 - what about soon after a2?16:39
davidbarththe security check, right16:39
davidbarthyes, need to do that; that was not critical for a2, but needs to happen as part of the code review anyway16:39
davidbarthi take the action of reviewing that list of assignements outside of dx and contact the right persons16:40
slangasek[ACTION] davidbarth to review cross-team assignments for dx specs and contact right people16:41
MootBotACTION received:  davidbarth to review cross-team assignments for dx specs and contact right people16:41
slangasekanything else to discuss on DX today?16:41
slangasek[TOPIC] Mobile Team16:41
MootBotNew Topic:  Mobile Team16:41
slangasekdavidbarth: thanks much16:41
slangasekasac: hello16:41
asac * 2d-launcher archive uploads/MIRs16:42
asac  * MIR concerns/maybe pre-promote16:42
asac * uboot imx51 work16:42
asac  * generally works, issues with .img partitioning under investigation16:42
asac * marvel/fsl kernel update preparations for a216:42
asac  * verified, pending upload.16:42
asac * armel-only ftbfs for main16:42
asac  * almost on top16:42
asac * lsb-lib porting16:43
asac  * required bits are ported; next packaging/deployment16:43
asac * chromium porting/license review16:43
asac  * chromium runtime issues resolved16:43
asac  * licensing in reasonably good shape.16:43
asac * getting a2 burndown in better shape16:43
asac  * down to trendline again.16:43
asac[LINK]  * getting a2 burndown in better shape * down to trendline again.16:43
MootBotLINK received:   * getting a2 burndown in better shape * down to trendline again.16:43
asac[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid16:43
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid16:43
asac[LINK] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid-alpha2/report.html16:43
MootBotLINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid-alpha2/report.html16:43
asacso on RC bug front we made good progress16:44
asacsome kernel related issues not yet understood, but thats still ok at this point.. expecially since we will get a new one16:45
asacon spec front:16:45
asacburndown chart for alpha-2 looks quite good now after we catched up the holiday backlog16:45
asacthe overall burndown is above, but we will address that when reviewing a3 goals16:45
* slangasek nods16:46
asacsome specs will land shortly after a216:46
asac* mobile-lucid-arm-gcc-v7-thumb2: most ftbfs issues resolved; review work items will get done at a2; rebuild of missing packages during a316:46
asacso that was basically never planned to be finished for alpha2 ... as the rebuild etc. was ment to happen around DIF16:47
asac* mobile-lucid-une-2d-launcher: blocked on MIR and seeding16:47
asacwe hope we can address the mir issues for a2 still16:47
asacat least to a point where we can pre-promote16:47
asacbut unlikely that the switch to UNE seed will happen for the a2 image. but right afterwards16:47
slangasekthe MIRs themselves don't seem to be linked from the blueprint? (and therefore don't show up on the WI tracker)16:48
slangasekcould you link them?16:48
asachmm. i can check that16:48
slangasek[ACTION] asac to link une-2d-launcher MIRs from blueprint16:48
MootBotACTION received:  asac to link une-2d-launcher MIRs from blueprint16:48
asac* mobile-lucid-imx51-debian-cd-to-uboot: issues with partitioning -> unlikely to make a216:49
asacogra is investigating16:49
ograbut the having the MIR processed soon would be nice :)16:49
* slangasek nods16:49
asacunfortunately i toasted my board while working on that, but i still hope that this will happen soon16:49
asac[ACTION] asac to link MIR for uboot to spec16:50
asac* mobile-lucid-bringup-testing: 2 work items will slip into a3 cycle16:50
asacthats not archive related, so its ok i thin. its basically figuring out how to extract some system information we want to include16:50
slangasek[ACTION] asac to link MIR for uboot to spec16:50
MootBotACTION received:  asac to link MIR for uboot to spec16:50
asacmight be that its not possible and those work items get postponed16:50
* asac feels underpowered :)16:51
asac* mobile-lucid-arm-lightweightbrowser: benchmark/review/archive upload pending16:51
asacchromium porting to arm took longer, as it takes like 16h to build :) ... but we are at it and doing the benchmarking etc. now16:51
asacso its good. also the licensing was hard work, but i think we are in good shape :)16:51
slangasekI see the benchmarking is assigned to dave-martin-arm - are you in communication with him about that, and do you expect that to happen soon?16:52
asachttp://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/copyright.full if someone is interested16:52
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/copyright.full if someone is interested16:52
slangasekbenchmarking etc. now> ah, ok16:52
ograhe attends each of our meetings16:52
asacslangasek: yes. arm has internal tools16:52
ograso there is close communication16:52
asacit was blocked by not having firefox/chromium16:52
* slangasek nods16:52
asacbut both is now resolved, so the last few items will get done swiftly... then decision and seed inclusion16:53
asac * mobile-lucid-arm-lib-tests: late; porting done; reassigned packaging, deployment and execution to team to help out.16:53
asacwe had to shuffle assignments in team a bit ... this will get on track soon16:53
slangasekI see there's a workitem assigned to mcasadevall for adding arm images to the ISO tracker, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't have access to do - should that be reassigned to me or to someone on QA?16:53
asacwe need it for the thumb2 spec ... so around DIF16:54
slangasekor is there groundwork he's doing there first?16:54
ograits just about him taking care of contacting you guys16:54
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
asacslangasek: the assignment basically means that he should take care of it, but if you want to take that item directly i would be happy16:54
slangasek[ACTION] slangasek to claim "adding ARM alternate images to the ISO tracker"16:54
MootBotACTION received:  slangasek to claim "adding ARM alternate images to the ISO tracker"16:54
asacslangasek: according to him alternate images are finished. just needs to get produced and verified16:54
asacthanks i will assign that work item to you (if there is a matching one)16:54
asacthe others are fortunately done16:55
slangasek"produced" - so they're not in the cronjob yet?16:55
ograslangasek, they are ... since jaunty16:55
asaci dont know abut the details, but i think so16:55
ograwe never had them on the tracker16:55
asacthey were broken for two cycles, so i guess not16:55
slangaseklet's take any further discussion of that offline, meeting's running a bit behind16:55
slangasekanything else on the mobile front that needs covered?16:55
JamieBennettMIR's linked to 2D Launcher blueprint now - https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-lucid-une-2d-launcher16:55
asacyes. so only risky thing for a2 is: * new upstream/fsl kernel for imx51 and dove16:55
asacthats it16:56
asacbut we verified those kernels already today16:56
asacso they should be good16:56
asacif upload doesnt happen on monday we have to push that after a216:56
ograimx kernel looks pretty awesome, i dont expect issues16:56
ogra(kudos to the kernel team !)16:56
slangasekplease keep #ubuntu-release in the loop regarding any problems that do turn up there16:56
slangasek[TOPIC] Server Team16:56
MootBotNew Topic:  Server Team16:56
slangasekasac, ogra: thanks16:56
slangasekttx: hiya16:56
ograthanks !16:57
ttxTeam status updated at:16:57
ttxWeekly news: The server team was very busy this week (and still is) trying to complete all alpha-2 blueprints in time16:57
ttxWe expect to finalize the work items affecting the Server ISO by Monday, in time for the soft freeze16:57
slangasek[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus16:57
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus16:57
ttxWork affecting the Alpha2 cloud images is expected to land by Tuesday16:57
ttxSome MIR/promotion/demotion work (canonical-application-support, seeds) might also land on Tuesday16:57
ttxOthers, like UEC testing, do not result in any alpha2 deliverable and still have until Thursday to be completed16:57
ttxOn the Alpha2-milestoned bugs front:16:58
ttxBug 462169 might need some retargeting ?16:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 462169 in samba "nmbd dies on startup when network interfaces are not up yet" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46216916:58
ttxslangasek: ^ ?16:58
slangasek"Establish access to central hardware when available"> I'm not surprised to see that workitem isn't done, given that it's a WI at all because we've had problems there in the past... is more escalation needed to make that happen?16:58
slangasekttx: oh, I have that listed under foundations ;)  Yes, I'll have that fixed beginning of next week16:59
ttxOther bugs account for work items in the blueprints, we'll see them in detail next16:59
ttxwe expect access to hardware on Thursday :)16:59
jiboumansslangasek: that is targeted for the 14th by IS16:59
slangasekjiboumans: great, thanks16:59
ttxLet's look at alpha2-targeted blueprints in detail, now:16:59
jiboumansslangasek: our alpha3 goals include *using* it :)16:59
ttx89% completed, on track, still misses some MIR review:17:00
ttxbug 493594: MIR for pastedeploy (zul) -- still needs MIR assignee/review17:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 493594 in pastedeploy "MIR for pastedeploy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49359417:00
ttxthe others have been reviewed and in good shape17:00
ttx57% completed, met some unexpected behavior with upstart/EC2, only 6 work items left, should be in time for alpha2 cloud images17:01
ttxthis one is the most in danger, but we still think we can complete it17:01
ttx50% completed, expected to be at 80% by the end of the day, on track for alpha2 cloud images17:01
ttxWork items for alpha2 completed. Some bugfixes and security improvements expected in alpha3.17:01
ttx92% completed, last item depends on IS delivery17:02
ttxAll work items completed17:02
ttx69% completed, still pending some discussion, end on Monday17:02
ttx62% completed, on track, can be completed next week (we have until Thursday for this one)17:02
slangasekI note "irqbalance - add to the default install" is targeted to a2; I'd suggest deferring that to a3 explicitly, I think the discussion that should happen before it's enabled by default is going to run longer than our window17:03
ttxslangasek: good point17:03
ttxplease action me17:03
slangasek[ACTION] ttx to target "irqbalance - add to the default install" to a317:03
MootBotACTION received:  ttx to target "irqbalance - add to the default install" to a317:03
ttx89% completed. I just learned that the last item (dependent on kernel team) won't get into alpha217:04
ttxbug 49456517:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 494565 in linux "support ramdiskless boot for relavant kvm drive interfaces in -virtual" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49456517:04
ttxThis is mostly optional, useful for testing17:04
ttxso we'll probably have to defer that one as well.17:04
* slangasek nods17:04
ttxNote that the feature is currently buggy due to a mountall issue, bug 50321217:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 503212 in mountall "mountall crashed with SIGSEGV in main() without initramfs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50321217:04
ttxIt would be great to have this one fixed17:05
ttxI nominated it for alpha2, but there is no assignee yet17:05
ttxfoundations team, anyone ? :)17:05
slangasekassigned to self17:06
ttxmany thanks17:06
ttxfinally, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-euca2ools17:06
ttxAll alpha2work items completed17:06
ttxburndownchart-wise, We should hit the line atthe end of the day17:06
slangasekand then tomorrow the line will move ;)17:06
ttxif nobody has been lying to me17:06
slangasekbut yes, looks good17:07
ttxAlpha3 planning work started this week, more on that... next week.17:07
slangasekanyone else have anything to bring up with the server team?17:07
jiboumansall clear here17:07
slangasek[TOPIC] Kernel Team17:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Team17:08
slangasekttx, jiboumans: thanks17:08
slangasekapw: hi17:08
apwOverall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  Overall we are doing pretty well with only a small number of items being pushed out to Alpha-3, see the second link for an Alpha-2 summary.  We are still below the burndown line despite the holidays.17:08
apw[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:08
apw[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-217:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20lucid-alpha-217:08
apwAppArmour is looking better with the alpha-2 deliverables expected to make it.  Boot performance is pretty good at ~1.6s with some variablilty updates just hitting the archive.  KMS progress is a good for ATI with a number of fixes for radeon coming in, nouveau is a little slow with us hoping to have a package for very early Alpha-3.  The rest of our Alpha-2 deliverables either are on track or have been pushed out to Alpha-2.  We may have to uplo17:08
apwad the kernel once more to fix an Alpha-2 targetted bug (bug #488636).  The kernel is currently at and we have a update to apply as soon as the Alpha-2 freeze is lifted.17:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 488636 in linux "b43 has invalid "firmware:" field" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48863617:08
slangaseksounds good to me17:11
slangasekanything else?17:11
apwnothing from me17:11
slangasekquestions from others on kernel?17:12
slangasek[TOPIC] Security Team17:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Security Team17:12
slangasekapw: thanks17:12
slangasekjdstrand: hi17:12
jdstrandas usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:12
jdstrandWe've had to postpone lower priority items, and are making progress on higher priority ones.17:13
slangasek[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:13
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:13
jdstrandA bug worth mentioning is: bug #503869. This bug slows down profile cache generation significantly under some circumstances and affects progress on security-lucid-apparmor-tunables.17:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 503869 in apparmor "multiple HOMEDIRS tunable entries can exponentially increase profile loading time" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50386917:13
jdstrandA profile's cache is regenerated whenever a package that ships a profile is upgraded (eg, 503869 was noticed due to a slow evince upgrade). Specifically, we needed to revert the apparmor change for likewise-open in bug #274350.17:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274350 in likewise-open "apparmor HOMEDIRS not adjusted for likewise" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27435017:13
jdstrandThis should be improved by jjohansen's current dfa minimization work once it lands.17:13
jdstrandapparmor in Lucid now has support for tunables/home.d (part of the same spec), so the current plan is to have likewise-open ship its own tunable, this way only likewise-open users will be affected by slow profile generation until the dfa work is done.17:14
jdstrandAnother part of that spec is to detect user's home directory and dynamically generate the HOMEDIRS tunable. This will also affect profile cache generation times, but not nearly as much as the likewise-open tunable, which uses a glob in the tunable.17:14
jdstrandstill trying to get that part in for alpha-2, but may be alpha-317:15
jdstrandon a related note, kees is following up on profile cache generation at the end of the installer, so that first boot is not affected by any of this.17:15
evwe've actually just resolved that an hour ago.  We're reverting the apparmor=0 change to the live CD and kees has already uploaded a new apparmor and ifupdown to detect the live CD in the init scripts.  I'll add the profile cache generation to the end of the install on Monday.17:16
jdstrandthat's it from me17:16
slangasekanyone else have questions for security?17:17
slangasek[LINK] Foundations Team17:17
MootBotLINK received:  Foundations Team17:17
slangasekjdstrand: thanks17:17
jdstrandsure :)17:17
slangasekev: hello17:17
evslangasek: hi17:17
ev[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:17
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:17
ev[LINK] http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid-alpha2/report.html17:17
MootBotLINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid-alpha2/report.html17:17
mdzslangasek: I have two brief items for the foundations team, if I may (at the end)17:17
evWe're looking good for alpha-2.17:18
evfoundations-lucid-boot-experience is done on our end.17:18
evRiddell: did you get "no root" support into KDM?17:18
evfoundations-lucid-boot-recovery: mvo is going to do the last two items on Monday.17:18
slangasekmdz: certainly17:18
evI suspect "Replace "Safe graphics mode" with bullet-proof X, with automatic VESA fallback" will not land for alpha-2, but I'll confirm with cjwatson as I intend to work on that area as well for an oem-config specification.17:18
evdavidbarth: I take it the installer gdm greeter will need to be deferred, correct?17:18
evI believe Michael Forrest has looked over the new "try ubuntu without installing" string, but I'll send him a mail asking him to close the work item or follow up with cjwatson.17:19
evI'm trying to reproduce bug 495012 now, and have assigned it to myself.17:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 495012 in ubiquity "Kubuntu OEM install hangs up on boot" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49501217:19
ev[LINK] http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid/report.html17:19
MootBotLINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/foundations/lucid/report.html17:19
evWe were doing fine leading up to the holidays, but I imagine we may end up having to defer some things.  I'll raise it at the next team meeting.17:20
evand that's it from me17:20
davidbarthev: unfortunately yes, it won't ready today or even monday17:20
evdavidbarth: okay, thanks17:21
slangasekis there an action for the above?  I don't see "gdm greeter" anywhere in the workitems17:21
slangasekoh, "develop a greeter offering..."?17:21
slangasekev: you'll retarget?17:22
evslangasek: sure17:22
slangasek[ACTION] ev to retarget foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update greeter to alpha-317:22
MootBotACTION received:  ev to retarget foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update greeter to alpha-317:22
slangasekev: anything else?17:23
slangasekmdz: you had a couple of things?17:23
mdzslangasek: I just filed bug 504847 about a cron crash, which (although no one else had seen it when I asked) looks like it is not specific to me17:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 504847 in eglibc "cron crashed with SIGSEGV in _init() after libc6/NSS upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50484717:23
mdzit looks like cron should have been restarted after a recent glibc upgrade, but wasn't17:24
slangasekoh, indeed; I caught a whiff of that earlier, thanks for jogging my memory17:24
mdzslangasek: I subscribed you to the bug because I couldn't figure out how to make it public17:24
mdzI found a workaround and made it public, but can't unsubscribe you, so sorry for the spam17:24
slangasekno problem, I'll probably go ahead and work that bug today anyway17:25
mdz#2 is, while I was there, I noticed there seemed to be a stack of untriaged bugs on cron, including some other crashes which looked potentially related17:25
slangasekin fact, cron is crashing here for me even after a reboot17:25
mdzslangasek: hmm, restarting fixed it for me on 1 of the 2 systems where I saw that bug17:25
mdz(I haven't tried the other yet)17:25
mdz(restarting cron, that is)17:25
mdzKeybuk seems to be the bug contact17:26
slangasek[ACTION] slangasek to do some triaging of cron bug reports17:26
MootBotACTION received:  slangasek to do some triaging of cron bug reports17:26
slangasekI think Keybuk probably has his hands full right now17:27
slangasekmdz: thanks for bringing this to our attention17:27
mdzslangasek: np, thanks for checking into it17:27
mdzthat's all from me17:27
slangasekanyone else?17:27
slangasek[TOPIC] MOTU17:28
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU17:28
slangasekScottK had to jet, but gave me a brief summary, which I'll dump in17:28
slangasek<ScottK> Nothing major to report on MOTU.  FTBFS numbers are improving.  The volunteer for the rebuildable binaries spec is working on it, but he got sick/had to have surgery so we're slightly delayed.  Expect to have that done before Alpha 3.17:28
slangasekany other concerns on MOTU?17:28
slangasek[TOPIC] AOB17:29
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB17:29
slangasekanything else at all? :)17:29
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:29.17:29
slangasekthanks, folks17:29
pittithanks all17:30
=== fader_ is now known as fader|lunch
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=== vish is now known as mac_v
=== mac_v is now known as vish
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
=== fader_ is now known as fader|away

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