[00:00] <_Groo_> Riddell: did you test the virtuoso 6.0.1svn backend? it doesnt work with lib,, hmm... whats the damn name
[00:00] <_Groo_> Riddell: ahh libsoprano
[00:01] <Riddell> what fancy plasmoid?
[00:02] <Riddell> we'll stick to virtuoso 5 until we hear otherwise from upstream I think
[00:02] <_Groo_> Riddell: yeah im using my 5 build, it works fine
[00:02] <_Groo_> Riddell: the fancy task plasmoid.. crashes kde 4.4 rc1 plasma-desktop
[00:03] <Riddell> may be an ABI issue, might need to be rebuilt
[00:04] <JontheEchidna> nah, abi should be stable
[00:05] <JontheEchidna> whee, fancy tasks does crash plasma though
[00:08] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: its a facy tasks problem, i opened a bug, got trashed by aseigo, lol.. its ven reported in several distros like mandriva and opensuse.. and yes, i rebuild it yesterday just to make sure...
[00:08] <_Groo_> nothing we can do, just wait and do a mental note to update it asap (which i intend to).
[00:08]  * JontheEchidna would have trashed it had he seen it first :D
[00:09] <JontheEchidna> Wonder if anybody left a comment at the kde-look page
[00:09] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: i just complained/reported that normal plasmoids shouldnt in a perfect world to crash the entire desktop... but aseigo is very itchy
[00:09] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: severals
[00:09] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: i also notified the author
[00:10] <Riddell> that's a touchy point
[00:11] <_Groo_> anyway, i explained to him, its not the first time im bitch slapped around :D
[00:11] <_Groo_> if you guys wanna laugh a little, https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=221827
[00:12] <_Groo_> im paulo dias
[00:12] <_Groo_> how btw, another bug
[00:13] <_Groo_> some genius (pun intended eheheheh) recompiled libmsn0.1 as 0.2 but forgot that kopete has a hard dependency with libmsn0.1 so it broken the app it was suposed to fix, lol
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> not a bug
[00:14] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: oO
[00:14] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: cochroach?
[00:14] <JontheEchidna> kdenetwork will build against 0.2
[00:14] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: yeah i know, but for now it broke kopete, just warning...
[00:15] <JontheEchidna> unfortunate, but necessary
[00:16] <JontheEchidna> hopefully libmsn won't break binary compatibility any time soon
[00:18] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: well since only kopete is using it (that i know of), it only makes sense to update it if the kde devs already put support into the new abi
[00:18] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: and btw, why o why libmsn doesnt follow the normal version convention?
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> I have no clue
[00:18] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: let me guess.. debian heritage?
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> that's why I missed the .so version change the first time around
[00:19] <_Groo_> Riddell: scott did the kdebindings compiled fine? oO (pls tell me they did).
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> anyway, kopete does support the new api, but it fails with the old api
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> so I had to update libmsn before I updated kdenetwork
[00:20] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: yeah i figured that much... i just warned you guys just in case
[00:20] <JontheEchidna> I did mess up in that I accidentally let the 0.2 .so to slip in the 0.1 package
[00:20] <Riddell> a lot of upstreams don't want to use version 1.0 until they think it's stable, this can clash with library versioning convention
[00:20] <_Groo_> after all im the official nagger of this channel and beyond
[00:20] <Riddell> _Groo_: no, it needs a newer SIP which hasn't been released yet :(
[00:21] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: libmsn has an .so version of 0.2, and libmsn is versioned as 4.0 :s
[00:21] <_Groo_> Riddell: argh, that will probably break eric too
[00:21] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: yeah very weird XD they really try to make things dificcult for packagers
[00:22] <Riddell> no worse than kdelibs :)
[00:22] <JontheEchidna> I'll admit that I probably should have checked to see if the .so version changed, but that versioning system is just unfair :P
[00:24] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: relax... dont start the whipping ... YET...
[00:24] <_Groo_> but overall is a nice release... :)
[00:24]  * JontheEchidna hides behind the "it's alpha" excuse
[00:25] <_Groo_> i just dont get it how to use virtuoso... its suposed to do something with kmail and such, but i cant figure out the "semantic" paradigm... not enough brain cells
[00:25] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: lol, ALPHA??????
[00:25] <_Groo_> isnt it RC???
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> kubuntu 10.04 is alpha
[00:25]  * _Groo_ pretends he doesnt know JontheEchidna is talking about the libamsn ;)
[00:26] <_Groo_> :D
[00:30] <sebas> is anyone working on rc1 packages? :)
[00:31] <Riddell> grumble grumble upstreams who don't give us time grumble grumble
[00:32] <sebas> you realize that you complain that upstream is just very fast ;)
[00:32] <_Groo_> lol
[00:32] <sebas> is it a problem for you not having zero day packages of an rc?
[00:32] <_Groo_> it is for me...
[00:32] <Riddell> it breaks the process that KDE has been doing for the last decade which confuses people somewhat
[00:32]  * _Groo_ misses doing a cronned dist-upgrade of debian experimental every 15 min..
[00:33] <Riddell> but at least it gives us a handy excuse for not rushing to deadline
[00:33] <sebas> How much time do you need for packaging an rc, at least?
[00:33] <sebas> Maybe we can tighten that a bit
[00:34] <sebas> I mean, this release was pretty fast, basically within 24h after tagging, there were final source tarballs, and 12 hours later it was announced and published, including mirrors in sync
[00:34] <Riddell> 3 days at least (i.e. we should be done and tested by saturday evening)
[00:35] <sebas> for the .0 release, it'll be one week, btw
[00:35] <Riddell> phew
[00:35] <sebas> this short period between tagging and release is really only to get *test* releases out the door as quickly as possible
[00:36] <Riddell> but it's a change compared to what KDE has always done, and there hasn't been much communicating that to users
[00:36] <sebas> because if there's a week of solid bugfixing in between, the testing base is more outdated
[00:36] <sebas> sounds like a corner case, but with the numbers of bugs being triaged and closed, it's  a substantial amount
[00:37] <sebas> (nearly 20k bugs closed in the past cycle)
[00:37] <Riddell> I don't think it was even discussed on release-team?
[00:37] <Riddell> I can see the rationale right enough but our poor users are grumpy
[00:37] <sebas> I did blog about it, that much I know
[00:38] <sebas> Well, it allows you to create packages as fast as possible and immediately release them when you're happy with them
[00:38] <sebas> not wait until our final announcement
[00:38] <Riddell> I'm tempted to put a notice on kubuntu.org but then it sounds like we're the grumpy ones
[00:38] <sebas> I totally agree that zero-day packages for "real" releases are critical
[00:38] <Riddell> not saying it's a bad thing, but it hasn't been announced enough I think, not everyone reads planetkde (shocking I know)
[00:38] <sebas> You can quote me telling that it's my fault :)
[00:39]  * _Groo_ reads planetkde
[00:39] <sebas> it was a lengthy article as well, can't blame anyone for not picking it up
[00:39] <Riddell> ~identica dent sebas finally admits its all his fault
[00:39] <sebas> it's :P
[00:39] <JontheEchidna> make[3]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/libGL.so', needed by `lib/libkwineffects.so.1.0.0'.  Stop.
[00:39] <JontheEchidna> aieee
[00:39] <Riddell> the bot isn't around anyway
[00:39] <_Groo_> btw is sebas = aaron?
[00:39] <JontheEchidna> what a lovely time for the opengl stack to break
[00:40] <Riddell> yeah, they're two sides of the same person
[00:40] <Riddell> (not really)
[00:40] <sebas> _Groo_: we both don't support the assignment operator
[00:40] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: in karmic?
[00:40] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: lucid proper
[00:40] <sebas> == however would yield false
[00:40] <JontheEchidna> kdebase-workspace == fail
[00:40] <_Groo_> sebas: lol.. i ask because the only one who writes lenghty posts in planetkde is aaron
[00:41] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: grr to X people
[00:41] <JontheEchidna> sebas is obviously not shift-key challenged
[00:41] <sebas> I'm closer to a Shift-key nazi ;)
[00:42] <_Groo_> libGL.so is just a dynamic link... how could it break there.. very strange
[00:42] <JontheEchidna> So your aseigo's evil twin :P
[00:42] <sebas> I like your nick, JontheEchidna :)
[00:42] <_Groo_> no, not two of them!!!
[00:42] <_Groo_> well need to go now...
[00:42]  * Riddell waits for sebas to point out JontheEchidna's typo
[00:42] <_Groo_> seeya all tomorrow...
[00:42] <JontheEchidna> *you're
[00:43] <JontheEchidna> CAN'T CORRECT ME NOW
[00:43] <seba> Riddell: not a typo :)
[00:43] <seba>  /nick seba's
[00:44] <seba> So it's a technical limitation of the medium, much like the popular "I can't talk proper Klingon because I lack internal organs for it"-excuse (a valid one)
[00:45] <_Groo_> seeya all later...
[00:45] <seba> g'night _Groo_
[00:46] <seba> Riddell: do you have updated libssh packages, btw?
[00:46] <seba> Hm, probably in lucid, right?
[00:46] <Riddell> seba: update to what?
[00:46] <seba> the sftp KIO slave in 4.4 uses libssh
[00:46] <Riddell> 0.4.0 in lucid
[00:46] <Riddell> but it's not in main
[00:47] <seba> on my karmic hackbook, it complains about a too low libssh version
[00:48] <seba> might cause a regression, when people upgrade their karmic's KDE from 4.3 to 4.4, and the sftp slave is gone due to the too low libssh version that's required now
[00:49] <seba> My karmic's KDE 4.4 beta2 gives an "Invalid protocol" on sftp://localhost
[00:49] <Riddell> trouble is our packages don't depend on libssh in lucid because it's not in main
[00:49] <Riddell> so it's not in the backport either
[00:49]  * Riddell checks on the main inclusion bug
[00:49] <seba> fish:// works fine though
[00:49] <Riddell> ooh it got approved!
[00:49] <JontheEchidna> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/7.6.1~rc3-1ubuntu2 <- got our problem
[00:49] <seba> sweet
[00:50] <Riddell> fish is messy, I don't know why KDE still defaults to it
[00:50] <seba> because it works
[00:50] <seba> sftp only works when you enable sftp in the openssh server, fish works anyway
[00:50] <seba> by copying over a perl script and running that on the remote host :D
[00:53] <Riddell> libssh promoted to main
[00:53] <Riddell> where's the ioslave?
[00:53] <seba> base I thought
[00:53] <JontheEchidna> base/runtime
[00:54] <Riddell> I'll get our crack team of ninjas-called-jonathan onto it immediately
[00:55] <JontheEchidna> this is an entirely-jonathan release come to think of it
[01:01] <JontheEchidna> [20:01:02] <tjaalton> oh well, anything build-depending on libgl1-mesa-dev fails to build now
[01:01] <JontheEchidna> [20:01:07] <tjaalton> including the xserver
[01:02] <Riddell> one day I'll be an X packager and I'll get to say "you're all screwed" as polite as tjaalton can :)
[01:06] <JontheEchidna> heh
[01:06] <JontheEchidna> let
[01:06] <JontheEchidna> let's see if polkit gets detected on karmic now with the latest polkit-qt
[01:09] <JontheEchidna> aha, yes
[01:10] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: should I wait for a new runtime before backporting it?
[01:12] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: yes no point doing it twice if you havn't done it already
[01:12] <JontheEchidna> kk
[01:13]  * JontheEchidna unmarks himself from runtime
[01:14] <Riddell> I'm just editing the wiki page
[01:14] <JontheEchidna> oops
[01:14] <JontheEchidna> oh whew, the lock saved me
[01:14] <Riddell> done
[01:14] <seele> whoa.. Riddellis still awake?
[01:15] <Riddell> I know, I'm usually out at the disco on friday nights dancing away
[01:15] <seele> lol
[01:35] <_Groo_> ahhhh im back from the disco..
[01:36] <_Groo_> ppl asked where riddell was strangely...
[01:37] <_Groo_> they seemed disapointed... something about ridell best village ppl impersonator or something like that.. go figures...
[01:42] <Riddell> more of a John Travolta dancer I like to think
[01:43] <_Groo_> Riddell: well travolta was veeeeeeeeery gay in dancing days... so... it matches auheuaheuaeuhae
[01:44] <_Groo_> Riddell: unless you where talking about the dance with uma thurman fase..
[01:49] <Riddell> hmm, no homophobic comments here please
[01:52] <_Groo_> Riddell: lol... where did you see the phobic? im not a english native but gay = happy
[01:52] <Riddell> it hasn't ment that for 40 years
[01:54]  * JontheEchidna is reminded of "The F word" episode of South Park
[01:56] <_Groo_> Riddell: well but its always a good excuse till they update the english dictionary :
[01:56] <_Groo_> :D
[02:03] <DaSkreech> hello
[02:04] <Riddell> hi Roger
[02:05] <DaSkreech> is the current kubuntu lucid nightly live cd burnable to a cd and bootable?
[02:05] <Riddell> no idea
[02:05] <Riddell> it's oversized
[02:05] <Riddell> couldn't say if it boots or anything
[02:05] <Riddell> would be interesting to know
[02:05] <DaSkreech> hmm o
[02:05] <DaSkreech> I have one cd lets pull a Koala ISO
[02:05] <ScottK> Riddell: I leaned on kees to get libssh done.
[02:06]  * DaSkreech hates Windows
[02:06] <Riddell> ScottK: I leaned on upstream to explain themselves, there's teamwork
[02:06] <ScottK> Nice.
[02:07] <ScottK> seba: fish is a bad hack that hasn't been needed for a long time.
[02:07] <groo_> ScottK: pls dont kill the fish.. me loves fish
[02:07] <Riddell> try telling that to upstream, grumble
[02:07] <groo_> ScottK: is so useful
[02:08]  * ScottK once accidentally fork bombed a server with fish and has never forgiven it.
[02:08] <ScottK> groo_: Where can you use fish you can't use sfto?
[02:08] <groo_> ScottK: lots of omega-3...
[02:08] <ScottK> o/p
[02:08] <ScottK> Sure.
[02:08] <groo_> ScottK: at work for ex... try to use sftp in a stupid solaris 9
[02:08] <DaSkreech> Would be nice if I could pass a identity file to kio
[02:09] <ScottK> Well if you're dealing with odd stuff like that, sure.
[02:09] <Riddell> JontheEchidna, ScottK: kdebase-runtime with libssh uploaded and in bzr
[02:09] <DaSkreech> \ha ha
[02:09] <groo_> ScottK: see.. never discards something because its awkward... i always tell that to my wife..
[02:09] <DaSkreech> Windows narrator is on
[02:10] <DaSkreech> It pronounced jussi01 and kubuntu correctly
[02:10] <ScottK> Riddell: Cool.
[02:10] <Riddell> the point is made on the "please switch knetattach to sftp" bug that many servers don't work with fish because ISPs and whatnot restrict what you can do on the server
[02:10] <groo_> walking the dog... bbl.. seeya guys
[02:11] <ScottK> Riddell: Is that true or ancient folklore.
[02:11]  * ScottK can't recall the last time he ran into that.
[02:11] <groo_> ScottK: maybe you need a job in real IT... like telecoms or banks...
[02:11] <Riddell> ScottK: the comment is pretty recent so I assume he must have run into it
[02:11] <ScottK> Probably.
[02:12] <groo_> ScottK: by real IT i mean... "what this nt 4.0 with no updated is doing running IIS 6.0 with corporate data" real it
[02:12] <Riddell> if I was an ISP I'd allow sftp but not shell access
[02:12] <ScottK> groo_: Understood.
[02:12] <Riddell> infact, I am an ISP, and I do just that
[02:12] <ScottK> I think it's reasonable to keep fish around for when it's needed, but not as the default.
[02:13] <ScottK> This reminds me of the heartache over getting rid of SSL v2 in hardy.
[02:13] <Riddell> right
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> ugh, debian-qt-kde.mk is depending on quilt again
[02:13] <ScottK> "OMG, the protocol has only been superceded for 14 years, that's not NEARLY long enough."
[02:14] <JontheEchidna> oh, nevermind
[02:14]  * JontheEchidna forgot he was looking at old source
[02:14] <jjesse> evening
[02:14] <Riddell> ah hah, another addition to your crack-ninjas-called-jonathan team
[02:14] <ScottK> One of the interesting differences between fish and sftp is with multiple file transfer.
[02:15] <ScottK> With sftp, it cracks open a connection and transfers serially.
[02:15] <ScottK> With fish, it tries to fork the remote perl script people like so much.
[02:16] <ScottK> I tried to fish about 40,000 little files up onto a web server and BAM! forkbomb.
[02:17] <ScottK> Back later.
[02:36] <JontheEchidna> yay, more mesa fail
[02:38] <ScottK> That's what we need?
[02:40] <ScottK> It's accepted on i386, so it should be available for builds in ~65 minutes
[02:41] <JontheEchidna> oh, the latest mesa upload won't fix it
[02:41] <ScottK> Oh.
[02:41] <ScottK> That's, um, unfortunate.
[02:41] <JontheEchidna> yeah...
[02:42] <ScottK> What's the plan?
[02:42] <JontheEchidna> The X guys are presumably investigating how to fix things
[02:42] <ScottK> Are we guessing or do we know?
[02:42] <JontheEchidna> well, they acknowledge that even X is broken, and some theories were tossed around
[02:43] <JontheEchidna> *that even xorg-server doesn't build
[02:43] <JontheEchidna> anyways, the changes here weren't complete enough to prevent epic failure: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/7.6.1~rc3-1ubuntu2
[02:43] <JontheEchidna> is basically the gist of it
[02:44] <ScottK> So going to 7.7 doesn't fix it?
[02:46] <JontheEchidna> right, it's a packaging bit that was improperly implemented
[02:46] <ScottK> I see.
[02:46] <JontheEchidna> so anything build-deping on mesa is set to fail until it's fixed
[02:46] <ScottK> I see.
[02:46] <ScottK> Kewl
[02:48] <ScottK> Except it's worse than that.
[02:48] <ScottK> kdebase-runtime doesn't directly build-dep on mesa. kde4libs does.
[02:49] <ScottK> So indirect stuff FTBFS too.
[02:51] <JontheEchidna> oh man, that means 0ubuntu2 for -runtime will fail
[02:52] <Riddell> already has
[02:52] <ScottK> Yep
[02:52] <ScottK> workspace failed too
[02:53] <JontheEchidna> multimedia as well
[02:53] <JontheEchidna> libssh backport uploaded
[02:54] <ScottK> edu too
[02:57] <Riddell> ok kdegames uploaded to ppa for karmic
[02:57] <Riddell> I think that's all I have energy for tonight, time to snooze
[02:57] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I think this is a sign the -runtime is missing a build-dep on mesa.  Since it builds against the .so, it should have a build-dep and not depend on indirect build-deps.
[02:59] <JontheEchidna> technically only libplasma needs it, though.
[02:59] <JontheEchidna> if libplasma's dependency on mesa went away, nothing bad would happen
[03:00] <JontheEchidna> (went away both in source and packaging)
[03:11] <ScottK> Then something else is wrong since it's looking for the .so.
[03:14] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: The #ubuntu-x guys say 7.7-0ubuntu1 is the fix.
[03:14] <ScottK> We'll have that on i386 in ~30 minutes
[03:14] <JontheEchidna> tjaalton said that it wouldn't fix it
[03:14] <ScottK> I guess we'll find out.
[03:19] <ScottK> Interesting.  http://www.technovelty.org/linux/tips/vi-backup.html I've always used tail or less with active log files because it seemed like the right thing to do.  Now I know why.
[03:20] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan|Szel, ping
[03:21] <DAskreeCH> People use an editor to view files that are actively used?
[03:22] <DAskreeCH> why would they do that?
[03:25] <groo_> DAskreeCH: cause its the "windows:" way
[03:26] <DAskreeCH> Windows has files that can be read by an editor?
[03:28] <nixternal> jjesse: you are mean! :p
[03:28] <jjesse> why am i mean?
[03:28] <jjesse> oh cause you are old and a cry baby?
[03:29] <ScottK> Maintainerless okular is not a good thing: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4131
[03:32] <dhillon-v10> ScottK, if okular looses a lot of people, does that mean in future we might not have it anymore ?
[03:33] <ScottK> Apparently no one is maintaining it right now.
[03:33] <ScottK> So if no one steps up, it'll eventually go away.
[03:33] <ScottK> In the mean time, the bitrot will start to set in almost immediately.
[03:34] <jjesse> well that sucsk
[03:34] <ScottK> Yep.
[03:34] <dhillon-v10> ScottK, how hard is maintaining a package as complicated as okular, like really really hard or medium hard
[03:34] <groo_> dhillon-v10: medium rare... less with bitrot
[03:34] <dhillon-v10> groo_, do you think I can do it ?
[03:34] <ScottK> You'd have to be pretty good with C++, know the KDE api really well, and probably make it your main focuse for FOSS work.
[03:35] <groo_> dhillon-v10: totally, go for it..
[03:35] <groo_> ScottK: actually nowadays okular is more of a cairo/pdf lib i dont remember shell
[03:35] <ScottK> Oh.
[03:36] <dhillon-v10> ScottK, alright, thanks for the info.
[03:36] <groo_> ScottK: all is heavy lifting is done by hmmm...
[03:36]  * ScottK overhears a snippet of the teenager's conversation, "It's a problem in Firefox, but it works in Konqueror, so what you do is ..."
[03:36] <groo_> libpoppler-qt4-3 (>= 0.12), libqca2, libqimageblitz4
[03:37] <groo_> ScottK: let me guess? apturl?
[03:37] <dhillon-v10> groo_, I am pretty good at C but I am learning packaging atm. What would you advise as the first steps
[03:37] <DAskreeCH> whoot we have the teenage audience
[03:37] <groo_> dhillon-v10: for packaging?
[03:37] <ScottK> groo_: Not sure.
[03:37] <dhillon-v10> groo_, no for okular :)
[03:37] <ScottK> For these two girls that is an extraordinarily technical conversation.
[03:37] <groo_> dhillon-v10: talk to kde-devel, offer your services, piss aseigo and tell im i sent you
[03:38]  * ScottK isn't going to get involved and mess with it.
[03:38] <groo_> ScottK: niiiiiiice sexist and demeaning.. i loved it
[03:38] <dhillon-v10> ScottK, do you think I should just leave okular alone and work on something else
[03:39] <ScottK> groo_: Not at all.  I live with them.  It's a statement of fact.  I'm thrilled to hear it as the one seems to be actually starting to get engaged with the system and how it works.
[03:39] <groo_> dhillon-v10: now, seriously the first step is really talk in kde-devel and see who was mantaining etc.. they will take you from there...
[03:39] <groo_> ScottK: ahhhh spoiler... i love sexist comments..
[03:39] <dhillon-v10> groo_, okay :) thanks for the info
[03:39] <ScottK> dhillon-v10: I think you need to pick with something and stick with it.  You are literally all over the place.
[03:40] <DAskreeCH> ScottK: upper or lower teenager?
[03:40] <dhillon-v10> ScottK, I haven't really started with anything at all, I am just updating some packages that's it so I think I should start with this one
[03:40] <groo_> ScottK: hes full of energy, let him poke around and see where he stands
[03:41] <ScottK> dhillon-v10: Getting involved in the upstream development of a package is a lot more than we do with working packaging them.
[03:42] <nixternal> jjesse: yeah, my back is shot right now
[03:43] <jjesse> nixternal: that's why i pay somoene to plow my driveway
[03:43] <nixternal> bah, my money is my money, and my money is pretty much non-existant right now
[03:43] <DAskreeCH> ScottK: for an individual package of course for the eco system of them I'm not fully sure I agree
[03:44] <nixternal> I interviewed at Novell the other day for a developer spot on some virtualization stuff...that interview didn't go well at all
[03:44] <nixternal> the guy interviewing me was a bit of an asshole in the first place, which rubbed me the wrong way
[03:44] <jjesse> that sucks
[03:45] <ScottK> DAskreeCH: Because of the way we work here, you can jump into a package do a bit of work and move on.  If you're going to be the upstream maintainer of something, you really can't do that.
[03:45] <nixternal> my old boss contacted me via linkedin and was asking if I was interested in the electrical engineering field and wanted to know if I was interested in programming PLCs for manufacturing environments
[03:46] <nixternal> I have to admit, it was really fun programming PLCs as my first job out of the Navy...you got to see your code actually do something which was cool
[03:46] <ScottK> Runtime retried.  Let's see ....
[03:46] <nixternal> like, I wrote code that spilled almost 100 gallons of HI-C all over the ground for Coca-Cola in Houston...that was pretty cool, but they didn't like it :)
[03:46] <jjesse> haha
[03:47] <DAskreeCH> ScottK: maintainer is a hell of an involvement. You can throw in some patches or take control of a feature then walk away the same as you do with a package here
[03:47] <JontheEchidna> any code that makes the kool-aid man burst through the wall?
[03:47] <maco> ScottK: was either of them the daughter you thought might like to go into computers, and then she got all shy when everyone from linuxchix was at least 4 (but usually 10) years older?
[03:47] <groo_> nixternal: i wonder why :D
[03:48] <nixternal> and if you go back to a mass back flush of sewage into Lake Michigan in 1999, that was not really me, but I was operating the codebase at the time it happened...I didn't know the engineers wired the pump backwards until about 30 minutes later when someone called yelling "YOU ARE PUMPING SHIT INTO THE LAKE!!!"
[03:48] <JontheEchidna> lmao
[03:48] <jjesse> lmao
[03:48] <nixternal> I made the news, I was on TV, so that was cool
[03:48] <groo_> nixternal: with or without handcuffs? XD
[03:48] <nixternal> without
[03:49] <groo_> nixternal: not so cool then lol
[03:49] <nixternal> wasn't my fault, it was the engineers that mayor daily said we must work with
[03:49] <nixternal> handcuffs suck
[03:49] <nixternal> unless you are into that perverted stuff of course
[03:50] <groo_> nixternal: it doesnt need to be your fault, i worked with project management, you just need to be at the right place in the wrong time :)
[03:50] <nixternal> oh, that's me 110%
[03:50] <nixternal> i was the project manager on that project too
[03:51] <maco> hahahha
[03:51] <nixternal> fresh manager too, and they put me in charge of the software development on a 25 million dollar project
[03:51] <nixternal> idiots!
[03:52] <groo_> nixternal: why that reminds me of a jim carry movie
[03:52] <nixternal> heh, I remember the first project I was put on, I had no clue wtf I was doing, but I played it off so well, that the company I was doing the work for requested me only from there on out
[03:52] <groo_> nixternal: or enron...
[03:52] <nixternal> poor enron
[03:53] <nixternal> they caused less trouble than fannie mae, but they went down hard, and to prison at that...fannie mae execs, well they are part of obama's cabinet
[03:53] <nixternal> plus I liked the name of their baseball stadium :)
[03:53] <groo_> nixternal: like i said... right time, right place... someone to blame and someone to bailout... and thats the world goes..
[03:53] <groo_> how the world goes
[03:53] <nixternal> very true
[03:56] <groo_> like in the company i work for.. a big telecom...
[03:56] <groo_> true story...
[03:56] <groo_> two departments..
[03:56] <groo_> one with a really nice, competent, open source friendly manager that saved thousands of dollars and was able to reduce both costs and maintenance in his dep
[03:57] <groo_> the other one, a bloated manager (both personally and mentally) that trampled the entire IT dep budget and was able to triple is personel and costs in one year.
[03:57] <nixternal> obviously not AT&T, as we didn't reduce a damn thing when I worked there
[03:57] <groo_> guess who got downsized?
[03:57] <nixternal> right, management, or good management, never gets downsized
[03:57] <nixternal> and they are typically the ones at fault
[03:57] <groo_> nixternal: wrong!
[03:57] <groo_> the guy who cut costs got downsized together with is department.
[03:58] <groo_> oficial excuse.. the bloated one was too expensive to put away.. the lean one was so "small" in comparison it would be a breeze to put away...
[03:58] <nixternal> right, the good guy got downsized...it's the way it happens
[03:58] <groo_> true story!
[03:58] <nixternal> the last company I worked for did that, they have the same management, and a year later, they still do not have a single client
[03:59] <nixternal> they have yet to make a dollar, and after 5 years, almost 6, they still call themselves a "Start Up"
[03:59] <ScottK> maco: Yes.  She was the one doing the explaining to her older sister.
[03:59] <groo_> nixternal: this one is a telecom... they wont go away soon lol...
[03:59] <nixternal> right
[04:00] <groo_> idiots rule the world, smart ppl run it...
[04:01] <groo_> last climate conference only proved my point once again..
[04:04] <DAskreeCH_> Hmm
[04:04] <DAskreeCH_> how do I price this?
[04:04] <ScottK> If https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-runtime/4:4.3.90-0ubuntu2/+build/1437204 is still building in ~15 minutes, we have a winner.
[04:04] <ScottK> Back later.
[04:04] <DAskreeCH_> company works with the deaf and is looking to move to linux but has specialized software
[04:05] <ScottK> DAskreeCH: High enough you don't feel ripped off.  Low enough you don't feel guilty.
[04:05] <DAskreeCH_> They want a costing on moving forward with Linux as well as with windows but the software only supports out of date windows that is no longer sold and is totally incompatible with newer windows :(
[04:06] <ScottK> Ah.
[04:06] <ScottK> Price that with an option to do the way you want.
[04:06] <DAskreeCH_> So I don't know if I can give them a comparison on how much it would cost to stay the Windows route
[04:06] <ScottK> Guess which one is cheaper?
[04:06] <ScottK> I often run into stuff that is given a 'I don't want to do this price' that is a bit out of this world.
[04:06] <DAskreeCH_> Linux will probably be slightly more expensive for this year in a pure windows sense (ignoring Office and AV costs etc)
[04:07] <DAskreeCH_> but would soundly kick it's ass next year and the year after that etc etc
[04:07] <ScottK> Make a separate cost accounting for recurring and non-recurring costs.
[04:07] <ScottK> Gotta run.
[04:07] <DAskreeCH_> Bye
[04:09] <groo_> DAskreeCH_: since the soft is legacy and non support, put the costs of rewriting it, along the costs of newer windows licences and addons (office, av, etc) and the hidden costs, (uptime, periodic cleanups) etc.. and let him choose
[04:09] <groo_> DAskreeCH_: is the soft light on resources?
[04:10] <groo_> DAskreeCH_: doint forget new hw for the new windows if its heavy on resources too
[04:10] <DAskreeCH_> groo_: Well they have spoken with the makers and they have not said they will support the Newere windows as yet but they will work with them to move forward as long asthey don't use linux
[04:10] <DAskreeCH_> groo_: Yes I've taken new HW into consideration
[04:11] <groo_> DAskreeCH_: translation, you are not important enough for me to bother to develop a new version, but i will lie to you for as long as possible to mantain the support costs till i have enoguh desperate clients to pay me for the new version
[04:12] <groo_> DAskreeCH_: i love it.. its like clock work.. always dilbert based
[04:13] <groo_> any motu still alive?
[04:13] <groo_> X is broken in lucid again!
[04:14] <groo_> Preparing to replace x11-common 1:7.5~3ubuntu4 (using .../x11-common_1%3a7.5+1ubuntu1_all.deb) ...
[04:14] <groo_> /etc/init.d/x11-common: 90: Syntax error: end of file unexpected (expecting "fi")
[04:15] <nixternal> DAskreeCH: how many employees do they have? do they want this software rewritten at all? or just migrate to Linux?
[04:17] <nixternal> depending on what the machine does, I will typically charge $2500 for a simple server migration, up to $10,000 for a larger migration
[04:17] <groo_> nixternal: what a pirate!!! hire me for half the price! lol
[04:17] <nixternal> but if they are all about open source, I charge them half for the first round
[04:18] <nixternal> groo_: that covers the migration and the training, and also includes support
[04:18] <groo_> 1/3 here! and i can impersonate as an indian to look smart and cool!
[04:18] <groo_> nixternal: i work for food!
[04:19] <DAskreeCH> groo_: They want long term software prices down since nearly all their budge t is currently funding IT
[04:19] <DAskreeCH> However they dont' want to minimize the impact of their work and staff who are as stated mostly deaf
[04:19] <DAskreeCH>  with some blind
[04:20] <DAskreeCH> nixternal: Desktops
[04:20] <DAskreeCH> Not servers
[04:20] <DAskreeCH> The servers are already Linux
[04:20] <groo_> DAskreeCH: go for linux with a legacy team with the deaf and blind.. pick the few bright guys.. leave the stupid ones with legacy windows
[04:20] <nixternal> DAskreeCH: red hat just did a job here at a school for the deaf and blind, and it is getting awesome reviews by the staff and students
[04:21] <DAskreeCH> groo_: again that's most of the computers
[04:21] <nixternal> I guess MS came in and tried to undercut Red Hat, but supposedly the community here gathered with the Mayor and the City of Chicago and donated all new hardware for Red Hat and the school
[04:21] <groo_> DAskreeCH: oh they are really deaf and blind...? i tought you were being sarcastic...
[04:21] <groo_> DAskreeCH: my mistake sorry
[04:21] <DAskreeCH> nixternal: Can You find me a contact of one of the people who worked on it?
[04:21] <DAskreeCH> groo_: No literally deaf and blind
[04:21] <nixternal> DAskreeCH: from the school or red hat?
[04:21] <groo_> DAskreeCH: hmmm i have no expertise with such an audience... research online
[04:22] <nixternal> I think one of the LUG guys know about the project
[04:22] <DAskreeCH> nixternal: preferably red hat if not then from the School
[04:22] <DAskreeCH> More interested in the rollout than the experience after right now
[04:23] <groo_> ppl can someone check something? please add the comic plasmoid to the desktop (kde 4.4 rc1) and activate GHNS in it... what does it do?
[04:23] <nixternal> where is 4.4 rc1 first off?
[04:24] <groo_> nixternal: lucid
[04:24] <nixternal> hrmm
[04:24] <groo_> nixternal: karmic should be out real soon (tm)
[04:24] <nixternal> oh my...it might help if I am on my lucid machine :D
[04:24] <nixternal> I was about to say you are smoking crack
[04:24] <DAskreeCH> nixternal: He got his hot new stuff :)
[04:24] <groo_> [08-01-2010 22:54] <Riddell> I'll get our crack team of ninjas-called-jonathan onto it immediately
[04:24] <groo_> [08-01-2010 22:55] <JontheEchidna> this is an entirely-jonathan release come to think of it
[04:25] <nixternal> good, so when something breaks we know who to point at :)
[04:25] <JontheEchidna> Yup, either Jonathan Riddell or Jonathan Thomas :P
[04:25] <maco> DAskreeCH: is it some deaf, some blind, or are they deaf-blind?
[04:26] <DAskreeCH> First
[04:26] <maco> well deaf's not a problem to use the computer
[04:26] <maco> for blind.... apparently the popular screenreader and pulse dont play nice, but luke's working on it
[04:26] <groo_> JontheEchidna: jon can you see if the comic paslmoid GHNS crashes plasma-desktop pls? its painless
[04:27] <maco> if you said deaf-blind itd be "uh...oh goodness....brail tty's....uhhhh no idea"
[04:27] <JontheEchidna> groo_: why yes, yes it does
[04:27] <DAskreeCH> maco: Except they also work with the deaf. So Deaf people come in to get their hearing tested and the hearing aids calibrated which is the software I'm investigatign currently
[04:27] <nixternal> hrmm, doesn't look like 4.4 rc1 is complete just yet
[04:27] <maco> well..ok for deaf... visual system bell.... other than that though, its down to regular old "does the video you want to watch have captions"?
[04:28] <maco> DAskreeCH: ahhh ok
[04:28] <nixternal> still has some building to go
[04:28] <maco> DAskreeCH: so its a medical place?
[04:28] <maco> i was thinking like at a deaf school
[04:29] <DAskreeCH> maco: A deaf school is part of the project
[04:29] <nixternal> ahh, DAskreeCH there is new software for that, but none of it runs on anything but Windows
[04:29] <nixternal> my buddy works for the hospital and the department he is in is just that actually
[04:29] <DAskreeCH> but the meeting I'm researching for is dealing specifically with this software since it's where they are deciding if they should stick with windows or go LInux
[04:29] <DAskreeCH> nixternal: Great :)
[04:30] <nixternal> if they go linux, then that software will not work unfortunately
[04:30] <groo_> JontheEchidna: really isnt only me then? nice to know
[04:30] <DAskreeCH> Tell him to switch to linux
[04:30] <DAskreeCH> nixternal: I'm aware but we have plans to run it on VMs
[04:30] <groo_> JontheEchidna: only with the GHNS2... the old one works fine.. and it was working in beta2
[04:30] <maco> DAskreeCH: perhaps talk to mchua on this network? she works for red hat and is...she says hard of hearing, but she also says she's just kinda afraid of the word "deaf" so steers away from it in relation to herself
[04:30] <nixternal> DAskreeCH: he has already researched it...the hospital uses Mac for everything, except for a few machines...all of their main systems though are Linux terminals
[04:31] <DAskreeCH> maco: Some of the people are really and truly deaf but quite a number are "hard of hearing"
[04:31] <DAskreeCH> nixternal: again can you shoot me a contact?
[04:31] <DAskreeCH> You have my e-mail address
[04:31] <DAskreeCH> I am heading homw
[04:31] <maco> DAskreeCH: what ive heard from her in terms of a11y is "yay visual system bells" and that having a way to turn off the auditory one is good because she cant hear it when its beeping constantly and annoying all the hearing people around
[04:31] <DAskreeCH>  see you all in 30 minutes
[04:31] <DAskreeCH> maco: yeah I've see that
[04:33] <nixternal> heh, i just found out recently a neighbor of mine is hard of hearing...I went over to fix his computer because his daughter called me...and when I turned it on, the speakers were max, and the windows startup sound scared the living hell out of me
[04:33] <maco> i need to get my dad signed up for ASL classes
[04:33] <maco> and get him a webcam and skype
[04:33] <nixternal> I turned down the volume, not thinking a damn thing...as I would ask him a question and he heard me without any problems...that night his daughter called and said that her dad's computer did't have sound now according to him
[04:33] <maco> our phone conversations would go much better
[04:34] <nixternal> my daughter and I use skype and webcams
[04:34] <maco> he cant hear the pitch of my voice
[04:34] <maco> but one time i signed to him in the car and he said "its weird, i almost blurted out 'oh i can hear that!'"
[04:34] <DAskreeCH> SL and webcams are a great combo
[04:35] <DAskreeCH> I just setup webcams between all the deaf schools here so they can talk to each other
[04:35] <maco> i need to get more practice with my sign
[04:35] <maco> hehe at UDS people were asking me "oh oh how do you say my country in ASL?"
[04:36] <maco> Riddell asked and i made a sign that looks like its drawing tartan
[04:36] <maco> then czajkowski asked, and i signed ireland...which is also the sign for potato
[04:36] <maco> she was Not Happy
[04:36] <maco> "you get tartan and i get <beep>ing POTATO???"
[04:37] <groo_> night all\
[04:37] <DAskreeCH> Well don't beep the potato then
[04:37] <DAskreeCH> plus Potatos rock
[04:37] <DAskreeCH> They can power my clock if you know what I mean
[04:38] <maco> germany used to look like it should be the sign for unicorn
[04:38] <maco> cuz of those helmets the military wore
[04:38] <maco> but now its got a rather silly looking abstract sign
[04:38] <nixternal> 22:36:38 [      maco] "you get tartan and i get <beep>ing POTATO???"
[04:38] <maco> no idea what its etymology would be
[04:38] <nixternal> hahahha, I just wet myself a little on that
[04:39]  * maco hands nixternal a pair of Depends
[04:39] <nixternal> I totally love czajkowski...I think she is so damn awesome...wish I would have went to UDS just to hang out with her...anyone who posts on the planet they are setting up an event to go shooting, knowing all well people are going to bitch and moan about guns, totally rocks!
[04:39]  * DAskreeCH hands nixternal  a kilt
[04:41] <maco> nixternal: she's all "oooh a country with GUNS! i wanna try!" meanwhile im like "oooh a country without guns! i wanna move!"
[04:42] <nixternal> yeah, to bad there is no such thing as a country without guns
[04:42] <maco> even police dont carry guns in the british isles
[04:42] <crimsun> we're a bit too caught up in weaponry. In a country without guns, we'd simply hose each other with something else.
[04:42] <maco> archery!
[04:42] <maco> i want a recurve
[04:43] <maco> and *not* the kind with pullies
[04:43] <maco> a *proper* bow
[04:43] <maco> *pulleys
[04:45] <nixternal> I have a proper bow and a couple compound bows
[04:45] <nixternal> they are fun
[04:45] <nixternal> I have had the proper bow since I was a kid
[04:45] <nixternal> it is a hoot to shoot :D
[05:54] <daskreech> The hell
[05:55] <daskreech> everything I'm touching tonight is crashing
[05:55] <daskreech> I can't open skype
[05:55] <daskreech> clicking Kopete segfaults it
[05:55] <daskreech> Typing a URL in Rekonq closes it
[05:55] <daskreech>  I started my Uncle's computer and it won't boot anymore
[08:23] <Mamarok> where can I get the virtuoso backend for Nepomuk and why isn't it packaged? Nepomuk can't work without
[08:41] <jussi01> Mamarok: riddells ppa.
[08:42] <jussi01> Mamarok: then the latter (non compiling parts) of http://trueg.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/virtuoso-once-more-with-feeling/
[08:43] <Mamarok> OK, thanks, but still, why isn't it packaged for 4.4. beta 2?
[09:46] <ulysses__> Riddell: thanks for the uploading, I will set the bug status to fix released soon
[11:22] <jussi01> Mamarok: I think riddell was still testing, it had a few issues still
[11:23] <Mamarok> OK, I haven't come across any so far :)
[12:15] <MelisU> hi guys, do you need some1 to test 4.4 RC?
[15:00] <ejat> anyone know that kde sc 4.4 rc1 already package ?
[15:02] <ulysses__> in progress
[15:02] <ejat> ulysses__: thanks for da info ..
[15:03] <ulysses__> there will be an announcement on kubuntu.org when it's ready
[15:04] <ejat> :)
[15:15] <maco> Mamarok: i'm guessing the "non compiling parts of" phrase has something to do with it
[15:16] <Mamarok> maco: ?
[15:16] <Mamarok> ah, you mean virtuoso?
[15:16] <maco> yeah
[15:17] <Mamarok> well, what happens here now is Nepomuk going to 101% CPU (not a typo, it really said 101%)
[15:17] <Mamarok> had to kill it twice already
[16:23] <mcas> Mamarok: do you have a dual-core cpu?
[16:23] <Mamarok> yes
[16:23] <Mamarok> I thought it might be because of that also
[16:23] <Mamarok> still funny to see
[16:24] <mcas> have you seen it with top?
[16:29] <ScottK> KDE 4.4 RC1 status mail (for Lucid) sent to kubuntu-devel
[16:31] <ryanakca> Any russophones around? They want me to add a russian support blurb to the website, but there seems to be a language barrier and I can't seem to communicate that I need both a Russian and English translation of their blurb
[16:33] <DarkwingDuck> I really really hate ndiswrapper
[16:35] <Mamarok> mcas: I use htop
[16:35] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: is KNR for Lucid workable?
[16:36] <ScottK> Probably not right now.
[16:36] <ScottK> (due to us being stuck with half beta 2 and half rc1 in the archive)
[16:36] <DarkwingDuck> ahhhh.
[16:36] <DarkwingDuck> we have an eta?
[16:36] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Read kubuntu-devel
[16:37] <DarkwingDuck> ahhh. Got ya. Thanks
[16:54] <claydoh> what about for Karmic????
[16:54] <claydoh> j/k
[17:07] <ScottK> JontheEchidna is on it.
[17:09] <jtechidna> aside from the l10n packages, it should all be ready to copy over to the beta ppa
[17:10] <jtechidna> If nobody gets to it, I'll hit the buttons when I get home
[17:17]  * jtechidna leaves for home
[17:26] <kozz> could someone please give me a hint about where to find the binaries for the lastest build of https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/nvidia-graphics-drivers/lucid
[17:26] <kozz> I have never really understood how these branches work or how they are connected to a ppa
[17:43] <amichair> whatever happened to plymouth on kubuntu? is it working?
[18:56] <ryanakca>  /query ofir
[18:56] <ryanakca> oops
[18:57] <Quintasan> oh ryanakca, theres a "friend" of mine, sheytan, did he get in touch with you?
[18:58] <ryanakca> Quintasan: Yes, he showed me a few mockups, unfortunately, we chose Ofir's back at UDS, however, I suggested that sheytan talk to Ofir and offer his help
[18:58] <Quintasan> ryanakca: I told him the same, I wonder if he did that
[19:06] <ghostcube> O/
[19:06] <ulysses__> \o
[19:19] <Pavel_S> hi, i am new in Kubuntu. I sent two bugs for "needs-packaging".
[19:20] <Pavel_S> I built some package on my Kubutnu-9.10 and can give them to you.
[19:21] <tsimpson> you could upload them to revu and file the needs-packaging bugs with a link
[19:21] <tsimpson> !revu
[20:26] <JontheEchidna> http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-sc-4.4-rc-1
[20:29] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, ping
[20:31] <ryanakca> dhillon-v10: pong
[20:32] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, how are you, I fixed that bug the other day, pointing it to the right place, but forgot something, it was written there as Kubuntu 9.04 but its supposed to be 9.10 can I go ahead and make that change if that okay with you
[20:33] <ryanakca> dhillon-v10: Sure
[20:34] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, here: http://www.kubuntu.org/tour near the bottom of the page, I also got the new bugs list down to 6 :)
[20:35] <ryanakca> dhillon-v10: Cool :)
[20:45] <Tm_T> hmh, if there's something more to fix in topic, please do
[20:47] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, just a suggestion, on the top of your new website, is it possible to have a link or something of that sort to Kubuntu forums and kde forums. A lot of people don't even know that kubuntu forums exist
[20:51] <claydoh> JontheEchidna: are the packages being removed safe? http://paste.ubuntu.com/354099/
[20:51] <claydoh> well the kdepim ones really
[20:52] <JontheEchidna> claydoh: yeah
[20:52] <claydoh> ok thanks! that will help on the forums and ml :)
[20:57] <ryanakca> dhillon-v10: *nod*
[20:58] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, alright thanks :) that could be a part of marketing, kubuntu *really* needs to get the credit it deserves
[21:03] <Mamarok> Tm_T: thanks :)
[21:04] <ScottK> First attempt at a mesa fix FTBFS.
[21:05] <Tm_T> what jussi have done now?
[21:05] <Tm_T> s/have/has/
[21:05] <ScottK> Got engaged
[21:05] <Tm_T> oh, right, that thing (;)
[21:16] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[21:17] <_Groo_> can anyone confirm a new bug in kde 4.4 rc1?
[21:18]  * ulysses__ uses KDE 4.3.2
[21:18] <Tm_T> no, not that one
[21:18] <Tm_T> but other bugs maybe
[21:18] <_Groo_> nvm, i finally found it... they changed the highlight window option to the task manager.. it was enabled by default in 4.3
[21:20] <_Groo_> overall 4.4 is awesome... some regressions, lke the GHNS2 crashes but... cant wait for final :)
[21:21] <Tm_T> shame there's no ppc builds
[21:23] <JontheEchidna> bbl
[21:23] <ryanakca> Comments should be disabled for stories on the new website, correct?
[21:31] <_Groo_> ScottK: ping
[22:06] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: karmic needs this change: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdepimlibs/ubuntu/revision/55
[22:32] <Tm_T> 0031.53 < Nakkel> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdepimlibs-dbg_4%3a4.3.90-0ubuntu1~karmic1~ppa1_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libakonadi-kcal.so.4.4.0', which is also in package kdepim-dbg 4:4.3.85-0ubuntu1~karmic1~ppa2
[22:32] <crimsun> missing Replaces+Conflicts, at least
[22:35] <Lure> Riddell: koffice 1.x is supposed to be dropped for lucid, right? so koffice2 source will be renamed back to koffice to be in-line with debian?
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> Lure: actually has been done, but the build has failed due to some universe build-deps
[22:52] <Lure> JontheEchidna: yep, have seen that - this is also blocking exiv2 library transition
[22:52] <Lure> JontheEchidna: maybe we need to wait for koffie 2.1.1 next week
[22:52] <JontheEchidna> I think neversfelde and Riddell were working on that
[22:52] <JontheEchidna> whoever ends up working on it, somebody has a lot of MIR's to write ;-)
[22:53] <Lure> JontheEchidna: oh, we expect it to get in main too?
[22:53] <JontheEchidna> I think we want to
[22:53] <Lure> JontheEchidna: I do not see much point if it will not be on cd
[22:54] <JontheEchidna> I think it's on the DVD
[22:55] <harolddong> is the virtuoso backend supposed to be fully functional in the RC?  I upgraded to the RC and installed the two virtuoso packages.  Now nepomuk doesnt throw any errors but it also doesn't seem to see my database.  no tags and no search
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> supposed to work. Tags work here, at least
[22:55] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: and ratings?
[22:56] <JontheEchidna> yeah, that works with rc1 now
[22:56] <harolddong> gwenview sees my tags but won't any searches error out and dolphin shows nothing.
[22:56] <Quintasan> hurr, both don't work for me :/
[22:56] <harolddong> what files should be where? for it to work?
[22:57] <JontheEchidna> might not work on lucid yet due to the half-built packages, but installing the two virtuoso packages should be all that's necessary.
[22:57] <Quintasan> LOL
[22:58] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: I think we are missing init.d script for virtuoso
[22:58] <Quintasan> I figured out it was not started yet :S
[22:58] <JontheEchidna> nepomuk started that itself here
[22:58] <JontheEchidna> after I enabled file indexing in System Settings
[22:58] <Quintasan> oh, even starting it via command line didn't help
[22:58] <Quintasan> Forgets tags and ratings
[22:59] <Quintasan> at least when I do that in dolphin
[22:59] <harolddong> in dolphin the search doesnt error out it just finishes instantly with no results.  its like its looking in the wrong place for the database or something.  I'm on karmic btw
[22:59] <Quintasan> huh I'd like to launch my lucid KVM but KVM is utterly borken
[22:59] <Quintasan> broken even
[22:59] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: any progess on KVM thingy?
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> harolddong: sounds like what happened with me in beta2
[23:00] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: or rather, it's our problem or upstreams?
[23:00] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, oh hey, yah a lot of other distros are experiencing this problem
[23:00] <harolddong> well in beta 2 there werent any virtuoso packages.now there are so it shold work right?
[23:00] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, it seems like gentoo, fedora are having the same problem, but only when they load up a ubuntu-lucid image
[23:00] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: Did I mention it's definiately not because of lucid iso? I can't even run debian kvm
[23:00] <Quintasan> :/
[23:01] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, yah the fedora one mentions that it was because of lucid,
[23:01] <harolddong> my nepomukserverrc file seems to point to the right place for the database
[23:01] <Quintasan> still, I can't run even my debian machine, not even mentioning booting from ISO files
[23:01] <harolddong> frustriating
[23:02] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: Dunno why but here it doesn't matter what distro I load
[23:03] <Quintasan> [quintasan@nightwalker ~]% kvm -m 1024 -hda ~/Sauce/kvm/debian2.img
[23:03] <Quintasan> *** glibc detected *** kvm: free(): invalid pointer: 0x0000000001e064f0 ***
[23:03] <Quintasan> Same with openSUSE, Debian and Arch livecd
[23:03] <harolddong> what does the new libmsn add or fix?  I remember reading on planetkde not too long ago that someone was adding a bunch of stuff like the msn ability to add your own emoticons. is that in there now?
[23:03] <JontheEchidna> harolddong: it allows kopete to compile, for one :P
[23:04] <harolddong> well that certainly helps I guess
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> not sure what else. Probably not much, since it was the jump from beta6 to a stable version
[23:04] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: I think it's really stupid but from what you say I can conclude out images break KVM :P
[23:04] <Quintasan> our*
[23:05] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: karmic's RC is built or same as lucid?
[23:05] <Quintasan> duh
[23:06] <Quintasan> karmic's KDE RC :P
[23:06] <JontheEchidna> gotta go, be back in a bit
[23:06] <Quintasan> http://static0.blip.pl/user_generated/update_pictures/749150.jpg
[23:06] <Quintasan> lol
[23:07] <ulysses__> homemade Apple:)
[23:07] <JontheEchidna> gonna lose wifi in a bit
[23:07] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: pretty much the only changes for backports are that the boost build-depends are bumped down to karmic versions
[23:08] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: okay, thanks, updating, will report soon
[23:10] <Quintasan> Hmm, anyone minds doing additional testing on WebKit for Konqueror (webkitkde) and reporting back on -> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MichalZajac/webkitkde ?
[23:11] <Tm_T> Quintasan: what needs to be tested?
[23:12] <Quintasan> Tm_T: if it works flawlessly or almost flawlessly, we need to know the exact state of it since we considered changing the default browser AFAIK
[23:12] <Quintasan> Tm_T: and I'm running out of ideas for test cases
[23:14] <Tm_T> Quintasan: that's my issue too, I have tested it around, but... it shows pages fine
[23:14] <Tm_T> Quintasan: have you tried how well kwallet works with it and similar?
[23:14] <Quintasan> Tm_T: yes, remembers my passwords quite well :P
[23:15] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, sorry I had to leave, went to eat something, also I found a lot of more info. but its cold here so I can't type fast :)
[23:16] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: no probs, anything I can do to help sort out the issue?
[23:16] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, alright let me pm you because I don't want to flood this channel with stuff :)
[23:16] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: k
[23:17] <Tm_T> Quintasan: hmh, and how your tests compare to khtml?
[23:18] <Quintasan> Tm_T: wait, actually now it doesn't remember passwords :/
[23:18] <Quintasan> Tm_T: quite similar, I have no issues with both
[23:19] <Quintasan> well apart from Facebook
[23:19] <Quintasan> this one site somehow managed to crash both WebKit and KHTML
[23:22] <Tm_T> Quintasan: what with facebook?
[23:22] <Tm_T> Quintasan: gmail is deadly slow in my khtml
[23:23] <Quintasan> Tm_T: facebook just well hangs
[23:23] <Quintasan> Tm_T: I get automagically switched to basic view when using HTML
[23:24] <Tm_T> Quintasan: https://mail.google.com/mail/?nocheckbrowser
[23:25] <Tm_T> Quintasan: and facebook works well here, including chat when I lie being Safari
[23:25] <Quintasan> Tm_T: ohshi- okay, gmail really sucks now
[23:25] <Quintasan> Tm_T: hmm let me try with changed User Agent, maybe it's a dirty hack or something :P
[23:30] <nixternal> anyone planned on fixing koffice-kde4 in ~kubuntu-ppa/backports to build against libkdcraw8-dev instead of libkdcraw7-dev? if not, I am doing it now
[23:30] <Quintasan> nixternal: you are running Lucid?
[23:31] <nixternal> on a desktop yes, but this if for karmic
[23:31] <nixternal> lucid is to shit right now to use
[23:32] <Quintasan> nixternal: I was wondering if that damned KVM bug #500218 still persists in Lucid
[23:32] <nixternal> oh, don't know
[23:32] <nixternal> my lucid desktop doesn't support virtualization :(
[23:32] <nixternal> only my laptop
[23:33] <Quintasan> Karmic one, huh? :P
[23:33] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, no luck in testing, all of the people seem to be somewhere else :)
[23:34] <Quintasan> typical :P
[23:35] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, can i get back to you in like 5 mins.
[23:39] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, alright i am back now, and I think I know what the problem is
[23:41] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: bliss me :3
[23:44] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, alright so here: http://www.computing.net/answers/linux/glibc-invalid-pointer/27773.html this seems promising maybe :)
[23:45] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, what do you think
[23:46] <harolddong> mysoprano-virtuoso.log file in .kde/share/apps/nepomuk/repository/main/data/virtuosobackend doesnt show anything after Monday Dec. 21 2009, even though it is supposedly running now
[23:46] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: ohshi- it loads
[23:46] <Quintasan> :DD
[23:47]  * Quintasan hugs dhillon-v10
[23:47] <yofel> nepomukservices is too stupid, yes my battery only has 17%left, but my AC is plugged in so there's no reason to suspend file indexing...
[23:47] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, so wait what happened ? did that fix work
[23:48] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, I fixed the other bug, changed Kubuntu 9.04 to Kubuntu 9.10
[23:48]  * dhillon-v10 hugs Quintasan back
[23:48] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: well, got further to boot screen but it is still black :P
[23:49] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, there's this other bug I am reading about the X doesn't properly work in the alpha releases :)
[23:50] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: debian kvm works :DD
[23:51] <ryanakca> dhillon-v10: OK
[23:51] <Riddell> anyone tested 4.4 RC on karmic?
[23:51] <Quintasan> Riddell: updating
[23:51] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan, that's a good thing :) now if that fix works, how are we going to patch that, we can't just patch the /etc/profile can we
[23:52] <ryanakca> Riddell: Yes
[23:52] <Quintasan> oh now, that thing is just a dirty hack
[23:52] <Quintasan> not*
[23:52] <harolddong> I'm running it right now virtuoso isnt working for me
[23:52] <Riddell> ryanakca: could you add your results to the bottom of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging
[23:52] <ryanakca> Riddell: Oh, wait, sorry, it's Beta2
[23:53] <ryanakca> Riddell: I can though
[23:54] <Riddell> that would be good
[23:54] <dhillon-v10> ryanakca, do you need any help in making the new website, currently I am just reading stuff on x.org so I was wondering if you need a hand in some drupal modules
[23:55] <ryanakca> dhillon-v10: You can ask Ofir about it, he appears to be offline at the moment though.
[23:55] <ryanakca> Riddell: Where can I find them?
[23:55] <Riddell> fixing the security issue in the screensaver module
[23:55] <Riddell> ryanakca: kubuntu-ninjas, do you have the secret password?
[23:56] <ryanakca> Riddell: Ah, no
[23:56] <dhillon-v10> Riddell, was fixing the security issue in the screensaver module for me ?
[23:57] <Riddell> dhillon-v10: if you know about drupal stuff
[23:57] <dhillon-v10> Riddell, I am learning drupal right now, so :)
[23:58] <Riddell> this would need decent knowledge of how to programme a drupal module
[23:58] <ryanakca> screensaver module?
[23:58] <Riddell> screenshot
[23:58] <dhillon-v10> Riddell, you think I should try
[23:59] <ryanakca> Ah