[00:03] <tseliot> cjwatson: as I said in #distro, I'll fix it
[00:04]  * cjwatson nods
[00:17] <mathiaz> is anyone else receiving LP emails four times?
[00:18] <jpds> mathiaz: Known issue.
[00:38] <kirkland> slangasek: i'm trying to clean up some atrocious conffile handling in eucalyptus
[00:38] <kirkland> slangasek: i need a little help
[00:49] <slangasek> kirkland: nothing a judicious use of rm -rf won't fix
[00:49] <kirkland> slangasek: ever the optimist!
[00:49] <Claviceps> POWERAID POWERAID POWERAID
[00:49] <Claviceps> POWERAID POWERAID POWERAID
[00:49] <Claviceps> POWERAID POWERAID POWERAID
[00:49] <Claviceps> POWERAID POWERAID POWERAID
[00:49] <Claviceps> POWERAID POWERAID POWERAID
[00:49] <Claviceps> POWERAID POWERAID POWERAID
[00:50] <kirkland> slangasek: okay so here's the question, i'll try to state as simply as possible
[00:50] <slangasek> !ops | Claviceps
[00:50] <kirkland> slangasek: /etc/eucalyptus/eucalyptus.conf is currently a conffile, though much maligned ... it most certainly should not be
[00:51] <kirkland> slangasek: i have a large patch that's in the process of fixing this
[00:51] <kirkland> slangasek: in the preinst, if upgrading from an older version, i want to move the contents of known conffile eucalyptus.conf to eucalyptus-local.conf
[00:52] <kirkland> slangasek: then i want my package to install the new, clean, better managed conffile eucalyptus.conf into it's old location
[00:52] <slangasek> so /etc/eucalyptus/eucalyptus.conf will remain a conffile, check
[00:52] <kirkland> slangasek: will that work?  or will dpkg refuse to install on top of a mv'd (removed) file?
[00:52] <kirkland> slangasek: check.
[00:53] <kirkland> slangasek: it will look like this now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/353722/
[00:53] <slangasek> kirkland: I can't say off the top of my head; it will *either* give you a conffile prompt about the diff between <null> and <new version>, or it will fail to install the new conffile at all
[00:53] <kirkland> slangasek: okay
[00:53] <slangasek> kirkland: test and see?
[00:53] <kirkland> slangasek: i'll try it
[00:53] <kirkland> slangasek: sure
[00:54] <kirkland> slangasek: can i run the rest of my solution by you?
[00:54] <kirkland> slangasek: to make sure that the rest is sane?
[00:54] <slangasek> and if possible, restore the pristine conffile in the preinst, to avoid conffile prompts altogether
[00:54] <slangasek> yes, go ahead
[00:54] <kirkland> slangasek: "restore pristen conffile" means cat >/tmp/foo <<EOF .... EOF ?
[00:55] <kirkland> slangasek: ie, just write it out there?
[00:56] <slangasek> if you've already preserved all the local changes by moving them to -local.conf... yes
[00:56] <slangasek> kirkland: sorry, I'm being evicted from here; will try to be online in ~15min
[00:56] <kirkland> slangasek: coolio
[00:56] <kirkland> slangasek: okay
[00:56] <kirkland> slangasek: not an emergency
[01:16] <slangasek> kirkland: ok back
[01:17] <kirkland> slangasek: okay, so the patch i'm currently testing is http://paste.ubuntu.com/353732/
[01:18] <kirkland> slangasek: i can explain what i'm doing, or you can look at that and digest it
[01:18] <kirkland> slangasek: the changelog entry is pretty comprehensive, though
[01:30] <slangasek> kirkland: digesting intermittently
[01:30] <kirkland> slangasek: okey
[01:30] <kirkland> slangasek: testing now
[01:30] <kirkland> slangasek: fixing a couple of minor typos
[01:42] <slangasek> kirkland: corner case: if eucalyptus was removed and then is being reinstalled, preinst will be called with a non-empty $2 but postinst will be called with an empty $2
[01:42] <slangasek> (OTOH, preinst $1 won't be 'upgrade', either)
[01:42]  * kirkland ruminates upon that
[01:43] <kirkland> slangasek: help me out ... what are the consequences?
[01:44] <slangasek> kirkland: if a user has removed-but-not-purged eucalyptus, then installed the new version, they'll get the conffile prompt for /etc/eucalyptus/eucalyptus.conf and none of their old settings will be transferred to /etc/eucalyptus/eucalyptus-local.conf
[01:45] <kirkland> slangasek: ah, hmm...  okay, yeah, i've been purging in all of my testing here
[01:53] <kirkland> slangasek: okay, when that happens, preinst will be caled with $1 = install, right?
[01:54] <slangasek> correct
[01:54] <slangasek> $1 = install && [ -n "$2" ]
[01:54] <slangasek> kirkland: rest of the diff looks ok to me
[01:55] <kirkland> slangasek: so, my preinst conditional should be install | upgrade
[01:58] <kirkland> slangasek: /etc/eucalyptus/eucalyptus.conf
[01:59] <slangasek> kirkland: yep
[01:59] <kirkland> slangasek: coolio
[02:40] <ccheney> the new thinkpads are on lenovo's site now :)
[02:40]  * ccheney drools on the w510
[02:41] <ccheney> quad core, color calibration, led backlit, 1gb nvidia graphics (ugh), etc
[02:41] <ccheney> and can use two 9 cell batteries at once
[02:42] <RAOF> To power that 1gb nvidia graphics chip :)
[02:42]  * RAOF is very happy with his x200s.
[02:44] <ccheney> i have an x200 now
[02:45] <ccheney> the w510 also is 1920x1080 multitouch :)
[02:45] <RAOF> I'd love a laptop as small as my x200s, but with a 1920x1080 15" screen.
[02:45] <RAOF> Obviously the screen would need to fold up, or something.  But Lenovo should make it happen!
[02:46] <ccheney> its not horrible but is 6lb 2.72kg
[02:46] <ccheney> and only does ~ 5hr on 9cell
[02:46] <ccheney> 10hr with the two 9cell setup
[02:47] <RAOF> Better than my 15" asus, which did a little more than 3hr on the brand-new 9cell, but not quite the 7hrs I get from the 6cell on this lappy.
[02:48] <ccheney> they haven't updated tabook for the x210 yet :-\
[02:48] <ccheney> well linux seems to always do much less than windows for power mgmt so probably real world of 3-4hr
[02:49] <RAOF> Boo.  I got real-world 7hrs.  I wonder what Windows would've got?
[02:50] <ccheney> i think i get ~ 6hr or so on my x200 but its rated for ~ 9.5 iirc on windows
[02:50] <ccheney> and it uses much more at the wall under linux than what i hear it uses under windows
[02:51] <ccheney> t410 is rated at 11hr on 9 cell and 22hr with 2 9cell
[02:51] <ccheney> thats pretty nice, too bad the resolution is only 1280x800 :-\
[02:52] <ccheney> hmm i misread the tabook its harder to read than their website since its not consolidated
[02:52] <ccheney> looks like t410 can do up to 1440x900 screen
[02:53] <wgrant> Oh, they went back to nVIDIA? :(
[02:54] <ccheney> wgrant: yea
[02:55] <RAOF> No Intel or ATi options?
[02:55] <ccheney> well i think it is switchable graphics for the dual core options, quad core can't have integrated period with new intel cpus
[02:55] <ccheney> since the integrated graphics are now integrated onto the cpu and the quad cores don't have that option
[02:56] <ccheney> i think the dual core models are probably switchable but i don't know for certain
[02:56] <wgrant> My T400 is switchable Intel/ATI.
[02:58] <wgrant> (I've worked out the ACPI magic to power the card up/down and switch the one that's connected to the LCD, but am yet to discover how to convince the card to POST)
[02:59] <ccheney> oh
[03:01] <ccheney> a nice feature is w510 also has 4 dimm slots so you can upgrade to 8gb cheaply
[03:02] <RAOF> That is nice.
[03:32] <crimsun> fta: alsa-plugins fix uploaded
[03:33] <crimsun> so for those not really following along, the last of the core userspace alsa changes has been uploaded, so we have good pulse pcm routing through alsa
[03:33] <crimsun> this fixes a regression since linux 2.6.27 (8.10 or whereabouts)
[03:34] <fta> crimsun, lucid only?
[04:05] <ccheney> coffee shop wifi finally came back up, heh
[04:06] <bryyce> heya ccheney
[04:06] <bryyce> ccheney, rather late at night to be at a coffee shop!
[04:12] <ccheney> bryyce: coffee, alcohol, and geek meeting, heh
[04:12] <ccheney> iirc they stay open until 2am
[04:13] <ccheney> bryyce: when did you get an extra y?
[04:19] <bryyce> ccheney, my laptop must have stole my other nick
[04:20] <bryyce> or someone else stole it...  "bryce :Nickname is already in use."
[04:26] <ccheney> ah
[04:38] <crimsun> fta: it'll be SRUd to 9.10 at least
[06:10] <tweakt> If I add packages to mini.iso (pool,dists,etc) will it then behave as a standard installer cd?
[10:37] <tseliot> any archive admins around?
[10:38] <sebner> tseliot: is the new Xserver (update from today) supposed to work (with nvidia blob)? ^^
[10:38] <tseliot> sebner: yep
[10:39] <sebner> heh great :)
[12:00] <htrejh> hi
[12:58] <didrocks> cjwatson: the custom.conf regression happened again with the last 15autologin change. I opened a bug explaining it and proposed a quick fix (bug #505140)
[15:34] <freinhard> hi!
[15:35] <freinhard> i just baught a tevii s660 dvb-s2 card. the manufacturer kindly ships linux drivers including GLP2 dvb-s2api stuff and tools and two firmware files without mentioning their liscense. any chance to get the drivers into the firmware package?
[15:37] <persia> freinhard: Getting anything in without a license is exceedingly unlikely.
[15:37] <persia> That should only happen if nobody notices.
[15:38] <freinhard> isn't there any "common" liscense that everything is distributed as, if no liscense is mentioned?
[15:38] <persia> *if* you have license to redistribute and have license to offer the license to redistribute to Ubuntu, you could file a bug against the firmware package and attach the firmware to be included.
[15:39] <freinhard> ok, so i should ask themanufacturer about that
[15:39] <persia> Yep.  Under the Berne Convention, the common license is roughly something like  "You may use this personally, but may not duplicate or distribute commercially without explicit authorisation from the copyright holder"
[15:40] <persia> Please do.
[15:40] <freinhard> ok, the COPYING file explecitely mentions that the firmware is not GPLv2
[15:40] <persia> *Lots* of firmware isn't GPL.  Being GPL isn't a requirement for firmware in Ubuntu.
[15:41] <persia> The key license requirement for firmware (as I understand it) is that Ubuntu has been granted the right to 1) redistribute and 2) permit others to redistribute
[15:42] <persia> And it usually requires special arrangements if that authority is granted only to Ubuntu, rather than granted to anyone who happens to have the firmware.
[15:42] <persia> (or at least anyone who received it under the license that Ubuntu has received it)
[15:44] <freinhard> so there just needs to be a permission to redistribute the firmeware and it can go into linux-firmware-nonfree?
[15:45] <persia> That's my understanding.
[15:45] <freinhard> ok, i'll email the tevii sales about that.
[15:45] <persia> And my recommendation to get it there would be to confirm and document the licensing, and file a bug for it to be included, along with the results of your research.
[15:47] <persia> freinhard: Be sure when emailing them that you request not only that it be licensed for redistribution, but also that it be licensed such that the right to redistribute may be granted to those to whom it is redistributed.
[15:47] <persia> Otherwise there are issues with archive mirrors, etc.
[15:47] <freinhard> oh ok, i'll keep that in mind and do that once i got an answer to my first request i just sent.
[15:48] <persia> Best of luck!
[15:50] <freinhard> is there a dvb group for linux i can contact for packaging the GPLv2 drivers and tools?
[15:50] <freinhard> s/linux/ubuntu/
[15:51] <persia> I don't know much about DVB, but Google tells me http://www.linuxtv.org/ might be a reasonable place to start investigating
[15:52] <persia> For Ubuntu, I don't know of a team that does that, although there are certainly some individuals who do.
[15:58] <freinhard> thank you for you help, i think i'll just package it and put it in my ppy. cu!
[15:59] <persia> freinhard: Well, if you've a clean package, you could also submit to REVU or Debian
[15:59] <persia> Err, gone.
[15:59] <persia> And this is part of why I don't like PPAs :)
[16:25] <tweakt> are there build artifacts on cdimage.u.c that are the d-i bits but for a regualar installer cd, not a netboot? Hoping to use these as a base of my custom CD.
[16:25] <pitti> bryyce: only jan 8> yes, as I wrote on platform I didn't bother to write a DB migration script
[16:26] <tweakt> looking for an initrd.gz, etc
[16:29] <pitti> jdstrand: it says 3/0/4 right now, which seems correct to me when looking at the whiteboard
[16:29] <pitti> jdstrand: perhaps you just changed it recently before looking at it?
[17:33] <htrejh> hi
[17:34] <htrejh> i get undefined referen to's when building using debuilder, and the dev package is in the deps
[17:34] <htrejh> what can be the problem?
[18:07] <ScottK> pitti: Would you please rescore mesa.  It's breaking lots of other stuff as it is and it'd be nice to get it in the archive ASAP.
[18:10] <tseliot> ScottK: are you an archive admin?
[18:10] <ScottK> tseliot: I am.
[18:10] <tseliot> ScottK: can you approve my nvidia packages, please?
[18:11] <tseliot> the source was approved but the new packages were not
[18:11] <ScottK> Let me look.  Becuase I don't have shell access, I'm somewhat limited
[18:11] <tseliot> thanks
[18:12] <tseliot> ScottK: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue
[18:12] <ScottK> Looking
[18:12] <tseliot> nvidia-graphics-drivers, nvidia-graphics-drivers-173, nvidia-graphics-drivers-96
[18:13] <ScottK> tseliot: No.  I can't.  I can't do New when I have to change the pocket and something lands in more than one.
[18:13] <ScottK> Pocket/Component
[18:14] <tseliot> ScottK: ah, right, the modaliases
[18:14] <tseliot> ScottK: thanks anyway
[18:14] <ScottK> Yes, exactly.
[18:15]  * tseliot -> dinner
[18:54] <cjwatson> didrocks: hmm. I *really* don't like using echo -e; it has a habit of producing weird side-effects later when things are run under a shell you didn't expect. How about this trick to ensure that the same syntax is acceptable in either case?  sed -i "\$s/\$/\n$AutologinParameters/" >> $GDMCustomFile
[18:55] <cjwatson> tweakt: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/karmic/main/installer-i386/current/images/cdrom/ (we use these for our own CD builds too ...)
[20:11] <htrejh> hi
[20:11] <htrejh> what is the best naming for a svn version of a program on my ppa?
[20:13] <jpds> htrejh: version~svnREVISION~ppa1.
[20:13]  * matti hugs jpds 
[20:14] <htrejh> thanks
[20:56] <Guest39900> hello can anyone hear me
[20:58] <mneptok> not now
[21:01] <sistpoty> hearing on irc is pretty much non-trivial ;)
[21:02] <Tm_T> sistpoty: not really, just put your irc-client speak everything out loud
[21:03] <sistpoty> heh
[21:03] <charlie-tca> I can't get xchat to talk to me at all
[21:05] <Tm_T> charlie-tca: time to file a bug then (;
[21:06] <mneptok> charlie-tca: look at the app's name. you don't want it talking to you. it talks dirty.
[21:06] <mneptok> "Oh yeah, baby. You know the right port. Oh yeah ...."
[21:10]  * charlie-tca thinks you mneptok might be right
[22:21] <r2wj> who will apply my patch? :(
[22:22] <r2wj> I made a bug report and a patch
[22:22] <r2wj> and now.. it just sits there
[22:22] <r2wj> What happens next? Nobody will tell me
[22:23] <crimsun> -ECONTEXT
[22:25] <ramvi> There's a bunch of debs in this repo: http://archive.geteasypeasy.com/1.6/pool/main/ubuntu/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/ant/
[22:25] <ramvi> They're symlinked in. They don't show up in the browser, and can't be downloaded, 403, why is that?
[22:26] <sistpoty> ramvi: 403 is usually permission denied. Ask them?
[22:26] <ramvi> sistpoty: Them is me. That's why I need help. Want to set up an ubuntu mirror
[22:28] <sistpoty> ramvi: oh, I see... not too sure to be honest, probably eitiher a problem with your mirror script or a.u.c has on purpose disabled permissons for ant (not that I'm aware of that, but checking permissions there might give clues)
[23:05] <sistpoty> ScottK: mesa: maybe-fixed. I'm ashamed, test-build never succeeded for me, but for contributors, see #ubuntu-x. I never did upload anything that didn't build for me before that though :/
[23:17] <MattJ> Nafallo: Any chance of Gajim 0.13.1 in Lucid?
[23:34] <sistpoty> is my mesa upload somehow stuck in a queue I'm not aware of?
[23:34] <crimsun> which source version?
[23:35] <sistpoty> mesa_7.6.1~rc3-1ubuntu3
[23:35] <crimsun> to lucid?
[23:35] <crimsun>       mesa | 7.7-0ubuntu2 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com lucid/main Sources
[23:35] <sistpoty> crimsun: thanks, that explains it all... somehow my source archive was all the time out of date
[23:36] <sistpoty> probably I'm an idiot :)