[00:12] <limcore> guys set that to wishlist: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/505301
[00:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 505301 in openssh "openssh server should warn that .ssh/authorized_keys is not accessible (causing ssh pubkey authentication to fail silently)" [Undecided,New]
[00:18] <micahg> limcore: please don't confirm your own bugs
[00:20] <hggdh> heh
[00:20] <hggdh> just added comment about it
[00:20] <hggdh> (and reset to NEW)
[00:24] <micahg> limcore: that bug should stay private BTW
[00:24] <hggdh> IIRC, it is only the public key that is being shown
[00:25] <micahg> which machine are the keys from?
[00:26]  * micahg gets jumpy when he sees keys
[00:27] <micahg> hggdh: you're right...
[00:27] <micahg> setting back to public
[00:27] <micahg> limcore: disregard
[00:28] <hggdh> this is an old, known (and, as life will have it, continuously forgotten) issue
[00:28] <limcore> I show only my public keys, duuh
[00:28] <limcore> obviously Im not retarded to show my priv keys
[00:28] <hggdh> add to it the absolutely insane SSH (and SSL/TLS) error messages...
[00:28] <micahg> limcore: sorry, I panicked when I saw a key
[00:29] <micahg> we have a lot of users who aren't as careful as you are
[00:29] <limcore> hggdh: what do you mean? insane error messages?
[00:30] <hggdh> the error messages are excessively technical, and usually only make sense if you are deep in programming with their API
[00:30] <limcore> well, this is kind the point
[00:30] <hggdh> I know
[00:30] <hggdh> been there before
[00:30] <limcore> even at MAXIMUM level of messages, there was no info that openssh failed to read the file
[00:30] <limcore> so I will patch openssh ass \o in this respect
[00:31] <limcore> as this is really retarded to not show information for such common mistake
[00:31] <WeatherGod> but, then again, I get people who are completely confused by the *EVIL HACKERS* messages if a ssh key changes
[00:31] <limcore> this message will be only helpfull, and visible for admins
[00:31] <limcore> in a bit related news!
[00:32] <micahg> limcore: was there a warning in /var/log/auth.log?
[00:32] <limcore> micahg: no, I pasted this in bug report at DEBUG3
[00:32] <limcore> I figure out what we can do improve overall debugging/bugfixing efficency!!!! (for example by like 3% or 5%)  how awesome is that
[00:32] <limcore> look
[00:33] <limcore> Provide more information about steps, places in code, config options and details
[00:33] <WeatherGod> yeah, let me know when the updates for package "users" comes
[00:34] <limcore> WeatherGod: right now!
[00:34] <limcore> with the improved information users can look into details themselves
[00:34] <limcore> compare
[00:34] <limcore> kmail bug(?): "Can not sign message".
[00:34] <limcore> vs
[00:35] <limcore> kmail bug(?): "gnupg could not sign message because the passphrase given for key 0xABCD1234 was invalid (cached 15 min ago). Do: seahorse --clear to try again. Do searhorse -l to debug. Read more: [OpenPGP wiki] [pinentry wiki]"
[00:36] <WeatherGod> isn't that our job to do?
[00:36] <limcore> now with the second one, I can get around to debug it so much more
[00:37] <limcore> developer can just add few printfs() or couts or whatevers and give that to us
[00:37] <limcore> and to ALL USERS that then are motivated to look into the bug!
[00:38] <limcore> like today I got "Oh I tried to sign email but kmail said wrong password. After reboot the same. And now it works" do you think I have any clue wtf happen and where to start looking for that bug? no
[00:38] <WeatherGod> but, that's our job as triagers is to get those bug reports upgraded to expert level
[00:39] <WeatherGod> it is through our interactions with the users that makes Ubuntu unique
[00:39] <micahg> hmm
[00:39] <limcore> With cheat-sheet of commands to manually do what program was trying to do, and to UNDERSTAND what is going on, casual users are far more likelly to try to debug the problems, and often even fix them themselves. Both for bugs, and for user-fault problems.
[00:39] <limcore> do not threat users as morons that would hide scared if program would be a bit more infomative what gone wrong
[00:40] <WeatherGod> I do agree with you there
[00:40] <limcore> even Windows was like "Program died"  but [read more - advanced]
[00:40] <limcore> and what we get recently in many programs "Operation failed."
[00:40] <WeatherGod> often exceptions are thrown and they bubble up to the error messages
[00:40] <WeatherGod> that really isn't ideal
[00:41] <WeatherGod> proper error handling would also improve software quality
[00:41] <limcore> well I will start with that openssh stuff about permissions.
[00:42] <limcore> also we can be more informative about things that went right!
[00:42] <limcore> example
[00:42] <limcore> Enter passphrase for SSH key foobar [  ]  OK DENY
[00:43] <limcore> nice. but....   is this cached? how long? who caches it? how to configure it? how secure is it?
[00:43] <limcore> we could add there info like..  ssh-add -l to see cached keys  ssh-add -D to delete  read man ssh-add to configure
[00:44] <limcore> or just give the command names,  to not worry about translation of this info message
[00:44] <WeatherGod> so, what is your audience here?
[00:44] <limcore> users that see tool and would like to learn more
[00:44] <WeatherGod> seems to be the somewhat technical users since they are using the terminal
[00:45] <limcore> currenty this window pops up when I use  ssh   and I have no idea what is this, a part of ssh? a part of some pinentry? how to learn more quickly
[00:45] <limcore> this could be for any program
[00:45] <limcore> Dialog box for CD-ROM
[00:46] <WeatherGod> true... there needs to be a balance between sufficient and overload of info
[00:46] <limcore> "CD-ROM was mounted"  More info and related commands: [man mount] [mount] [eject]
[00:46] <limcore> I would imagin this as a footer to dialog boxes, with short text and list of commands
[00:46] <WeatherGod> what about a Help button?
[00:47] <limcore> I dont know about others, but I do not like Help buttons
[00:47] <limcore> I just think "oh there will be some long boring text"
[00:47] <WeatherGod> hmm, true
[00:47] <limcore> if we just show 3-4 command names, it would be better for me, because then I know right away what more I can learn
[00:47] <limcore> and user can get interested
[00:48] <WeatherGod> true, but what about the user who "Just wants it to work"?
[00:48] <limcore> even if not interested, he can later recall, oh yes, 'mount' I seen that somewhere, perhaps we should try using that
[00:48] <WeatherGod> also, you are conflating the GUI with the terminal
[00:48] <limcore> he just ignores the small text in footer
[00:48] <limcore> all above I ment mostly for GUI
[00:48] <WeatherGod> but, you are suggesting terminal commands
[00:48] <limcore> or perhaps also 1-liner version for text
[00:48] <limcore> well overall programs
[00:49] <limcore> "Empty CD was inserted"
[00:49] <WeatherGod> because  you need to watch out for modularity... what if the command for "mount" ever changes?
[00:49] <limcore> [OK]
[00:49] <limcore> -----------
[00:49] <limcore> learn more: [eject] [mount] [k3b] ["Linux cdrom support"]
[00:50] <limcore> WeatherGod: same problem we have in man pages for SEE ALSO and it seems to not be a big issue
[00:50] <hggdh> well, this is actually something to propose in a mailing list, not on this channel
[00:50] <WeatherGod> limcore, but, one has to go to a man page to get the "See Also" for other man pages
[00:51] <WeatherGod> but I do see what you mean
[00:51] <limcore> right.. so we bring this info, in a short and not obstructive manner, to show users that learning more is not scarry
[00:51] <WeatherGod> hggdh is right, this isn't quite the right place for this discussion, though
[00:52] <limcore> ok; Back to that 505301, set it to wish?
[00:52] <limcore> and anyone ELSE then can confirm? :>
[00:53] <micahg> limcore: marked as wishlist
[00:53] <limcore> thx
[00:53] <micahg> I found an upstream bug but I don't think it's right since you're asking for server auth logging
[00:53] <limcore> what to do to be able to also mark bug severity?
[00:53] <micahg> limcore: only bug-control can mark importance
[00:53] <limcore> I could totally do that
[00:54] <limcore> for wish and low for example to start with
[00:55] <limcore> it's not like I will set all my bugs to critical ;)
[01:07] <limcore> micahg: about that upstream thing about reporting back to client. I was also thionking about, that would be nice to do. It's not at all possible with SSH protocol? That server denies opening the connection, but sends back a text? Or perhasp a hack that user is allowed but is logged in to mini-shell which only purpose is to report details of problem and quit?
[01:07] <micahg> limcore: you don't want to report to the client anything that could give away security information
[01:09] <limcore> ok. How about we change the client side message to always say "On the SERVER, look into usually /var/log/auth or security or read sshd manual"? I know its obvious, but, for home users that want just to ssh to own bux, so they are the "admins" this can be usefull
[01:10] <limcore> such hint would save me like half hour first time I was playing with own ssh
[01:11] <hggdh> limcore: if the error is server-side, server people will have to step in
[01:11] <hggdh> so this is not a message to be displayed on the client side
[01:12] <limcore> as I said above
[01:12] <hggdh> indeed
[01:12] <limcore> home user, own laptop+pc
[01:12] <limcore> he is the "admin" even if he doesnt really realize that ;) he needs a hint
[01:12]  * hggdh stops browsing yad vashem, and goes to watch the Cowboys game
[01:14] <WeatherGod> wait, eagles game is tonight!?
[01:14] <WeatherGod> ahhh!
[01:15]  * WeatherGod switches channel
[01:17] <hggdh> heh
[01:18] <WeatherGod> E-A-G-L-E-S!
[01:18] <WeatherGod> :P
[01:18] <hggdh> who cares about eagles? ;-)
[01:19] <WeatherGod> I wonder if there is an Eagles IRC channel?
[01:20] <WeatherGod> I doubt there is much interest among tech people for things like football
[01:20] <hggdh> well, I do not really follow it, except for the cowboys games
[01:22] <WeatherGod> ouch!
[01:22] <WeatherGod> I am more a college football guy, but that is over now, so I can focus on pro football
[01:30] <limcore> mmmm eagles
[01:30]  * limcore fires up a roost
[01:30]  * WeatherGod opens a firehose
[01:42] <fujimitsu> football is alright.. at least there is tactical deployment of solutions involved..
[01:43] <hggdh> yes, but *very* slow. Rugby is more fun (or soccer)
[01:43] <hggdh> 5 seconds of play, 90 seconds of preparation
[01:43] <fujimitsu> good things take time
[01:44] <hggdh> :-) yes indeed
[02:08] <cyan-spam> anyone wanna look at Bug #313830? i have no idea about this stuff.
[02:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 313830 in ubuntu "Existing LVM2 volume groups corrupted by intrepid/8.10 server installation AND then fails to boot: GRUB Error 2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/313830
[02:12] <WeatherGod> cyan-spam, I am no expert, but it sounds like he trashed his disks
[02:12] <cyan-spam> right, but what caused it
[02:12] <cyan-spam> as in, i have no idea what package to assign it to
[02:12] <WeatherGod> you will have to ask him
[02:13] <WeatherGod> actually, looking again
[02:13] <WeatherGod> it appears to be the Ubuntu installer
[02:13] <cyan-spam> yes, i could assign it to d-i but i'm sure it's some other program that d-i calls
[02:13] <WeatherGod> I would file it against ubiquity
[02:13] <WeatherGod> d-i?
[02:14] <cyan-spam> debian-installer, since it's a server instal
[02:14] <WeatherGod> oh, true... dunno then
[02:16] <hggdh> hum
[02:16] <hggdh> I had a similar problem when installing from alternate to Karmic
[02:17] <hggdh> 3 of my filesystems (all are under LVM) got reinitialised *even* after I marked them to be kept
[02:18] <cyan-spam> bummer :-S
[02:18] <hggdh> tell me... took me 3 weeks to recover all from backups
[02:18] <hggdh> cherry-picking from 250G of daily backups
[02:19] <WeatherGod> I had something like that happen on my RedHat server
[02:19] <WeatherGod> marked a RAID as do not touch, and install onto another drive
[02:19] <WeatherGod> and it went ahead and wrote the boot info onto the first drive of the raid
[02:20] <WeatherGod> luckily, it was software raid, and it raid rebuild itself... but it took me a whole day to figure that one out
[03:29]  * WeatherGod turns off the firehose
[03:30]  * WeatherGod lights barbaque pit
[03:30] <WeatherGod> time for some bird roasting, right?
[03:33] <micahg> hggdh: what to do with a core attached to bug?
[03:34]  * micahg can't seem to retrace
[03:39] <hggdh> micahg: it is very probable you will not be able to retrace
[03:39] <hggdh> you would have to have the exact same binaries
[03:39] <micahg> so, better to close and ask for apport crash?
[03:39] <hggdh> er, symbols
[03:39] <micahg> hggdh: any way to make the retracer look at it?
[03:39] <hggdh> usually, yes. There is nothing we can do with a core
[03:40] <hggdh> I do not think so
[03:40] <hggdh> is it just a core, or the .crash?
[03:40] <micahg> k, so I'll remove it and then make publiuc again
[03:40] <micahg> just the core
[03:40] <hggdh> nothing can be done
[03:41] <micahg> k
[03:41] <micahg> thanks
[03:41] <hggdh> we are starting to see users refusing to use apport (or ubuntu-bug) because it collects data. Ah well. Their bugs will keep on being closed, I guess
[03:41] <micahg> hggdh: well if they say that, I ask them to make the backtrace for me
[03:42] <hggdh> so do I, but then you spend a lot of time hunting for the data apport would have collected
[03:42] <micahg> yep
[03:43] <micahg> bug 107103 might help
[03:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 107103 in apport "Allow user to suppress individual fields when sending a report" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107103
[03:43]  * micahg won't submit apport reports for certain things either :)
[03:44] <WeatherGod> maybe micahg shouldn't be on those certain websites when crashes occur
[03:44] <WeatherGod> :P
[03:44] <micahg> WeatherGod: I'm referring to Network manager :P
[03:44] <WeatherGod> well, ok, true
[03:45] <WeatherGod> that is a pretty good idea, actually
[03:45] <hggdh> micahg: yes, it might help. But most users will still allow for the core to be sent. And -- you one knows what to do, all is there
[03:45] <hggdh> so this is privacy theatre
[03:45] <micahg> hggdh: we should probably have a warning not to make public if a core is attached
[03:45] <micahg> or maybe even remove the option to make public
[03:45] <micahg> ...
[03:46] <WeatherGod> isn't that done automatically for all apports with cores?
[03:46]  * micahg thinks he should file a bug in malone
[03:46] <hggdh> what we need is privacy on attachments
[03:46] <hggdh> and the bug is there, old, old
[03:46] <micahg> WeatherGod: users make them public though
[03:46] <WeatherGod> hmmm,, that is an idea
[03:46] <hggdh> (don't remember right now, but I should be subscribed)
[03:46] <WeatherGod> ah
[03:46] <micahg> bug 39674
[03:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 39674 in malone "Attachments of private bugreports are public" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39674
[03:47] <WeatherGod> oh, yeah, that would be a problem
[03:49] <hggdh> and bug 151658
[03:49] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 151658 in malone "Private comments for public bugs" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151658
[03:50] <micahg> hggdh: I just filed bug 505370
[03:50] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 505370 in malone "disable ability to make public if attachments should be private" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/505370
[03:51] <hggdh> already subscribed ;-)
[03:51] <hggdh> but I am not sure this is a good option
[03:52] <micahg> hggdh: not good, but I think necessary to protect the public
[03:53] <micahg> hggdh: updated description to only say core dump
[03:57] <hggdh> micahg: well, it is better than nothing, I agree
[03:58] <micahg> unfortunately, it wouldn't have caught the bug I just had
[04:06]  * limcore cooks up a patch
[04:07] <limcore> ok so I changed sources from apt-get source foo, now how to make .deb and test it out?
[04:11]  * limcore http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/rebuilding-ubuntu-debian-linux-binary-package/
[04:14] <micahg> limcore: pbuilder?
[04:14] <micahg> limcore: upload to PPA?
[04:15] <limcore> what is the difference between openssh-server_5.1p1-6ubuntu3_amd64.deb        openssh-server-udeb_5.1p1-6ubuntu3_amd64.udeb ? the ideb is what?
[04:15] <jmarsden> limcore: And longer term, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[04:15] <limcore> udeb
[04:16]  * micahg doesn't know what a ueb is
[04:16] <micahg> *udeb
[04:17] <jmarsden> udebs are modules for debian-installer, only
[04:17] <hggdh> forget udeb, limcore
[04:18]  * jmarsden is trying to find where that is defined now... but you don't want to mess with udebs :)
[04:19] <jmarsden> limcore: If you care, there is a one paragraph description of udebs at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deb_%28file_format%29
[04:21]  * micahg loves learning new things :)
[04:31] <limcore> ok then
[04:32] <limcore> hggdh: micahg - ok I fixed the bug I reported \o/
[04:32] <limcore> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/505301 contains attached patch
[04:32] <micahg> great
[04:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 505301 in openssh "openssh server should warn that .ssh/authorized_keys is not accessible (causing ssh pubkey authentication to fail silently)" [Wishlist,New]
[04:32] <limcore> it's tested and all (but of course extra review is needed, as this is sshd)
[04:33] <micahg> limcore: the problem is that the file isn't required
[04:33] <micahg> so won't that flood the log file with passwd logins?
[04:34] <limcore> micahg: your question is already responded to in the last part of my comment there
[04:34] <limcore> And with option (/etc/ssh/sshd_config)  LogLevel INFO only the error conditions thes ones with ERROR are loged, since they are undexpted.
[04:35] <micahg> limcore: can you check to see if it applies on the version in Lucid?
[04:35] <limcore> huhuh
[04:35] <limcore> do I need to install Lucid to do that
[04:35] <micahg> limcore: new patches go to devel version first
[04:36] <micahg> limcore: no, just apply the patch to the source from lucid
[04:37] <micahg> jpds: you think the upstream bug is appropriate?
[04:37] <hggdh> well, looking upstream is always good, since this reduces our delta
[04:38] <limcore> I think upstread could use that
[04:38]  * limcore typos
[04:38] <micahg> yes, but the bug I originally selected for upstream was for client side feedback
[04:39] <limcore> yes, this is other thing
[04:41] <hggdh> and we seem to merge it from Debian
[04:41] <micahg> right
[04:41] <micahg> but debian doesn't seem to have a bug for it
[04:42] <hggdh> so there are two options: open a bug on debian; open a bug upstream (openbsd)
[04:42] <hggdh> upstream would be nice
[04:42] <limcore> btw diff somehow missed my changelog update; cretid Rafał Maj <rafal.maj.it@gmail.com>
[04:42] <micahg> hggdh: https://bugzilla.mindrot.org isn't the upstream?
[04:43] <micahg> limcore: you want a debdiff if you're doing that
[04:43] <hggdh> yes, this is the BTS for it
[04:44] <limcore> we do not have to wait for upstream to accept this patch to put it into Lucid right?
[04:44] <hggdh> (to my knowledge). But ./debian/watch goes to openbsd to get it
[04:44] <micahg> limcore: correct
[04:44] <hggdh> no, we do not
[04:44] <hggdh> but there is a much higher chance of patch acceptance if upstream also considers it good
[04:45] <hggdh> ah, and we can find https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1554
[04:46] <ubot4> bugzilla.mindrot.org bug 1554 in ssh "No feedback when configuration file permissions are set incorrectly." [Minor,Reopened]
[04:46] <micahg> hggdh: that was my question for jpds
[04:46] <micahg> that bug is for client feedback
[04:46]  * micahg needs to read the whole thing before attaching
[04:47] <limcore> should I create upstream bug?
[04:47] <hggdh> yes, the server should have logged the error
[04:47] <hggdh> limcore: no, your issue seems to be the bug I linked here
[04:48] <hggdh> oops
[04:49] <hggdh> yes, this is a server error (sorry micahg)
[04:49]  * micahg is wondering if he is on the ignore list :)
[04:50]  * hggdh spent the whole day confused on that. Sigh. perhaps sleeping could actually help
[04:50] <limcore> but Damien Miller says this problem already was being recorded by ssh? as "Authentication refused: bad ownership or modes for file
[04:50] <hggdh> it is, at the server
[04:51] <hggdh> but the client will *not* be notified -- security viaolation at the server, *before* the client authenticates
[04:51] <hggdh> so the server cannot leak this
[04:52] <hggdh> yes, I know, may sound weird. But this might allow for phishing
[04:52] <limcore> my patch makes the server log more in detail. It would seem I was not getting the "bad ownership or modes" error logged, probably this catches ONLY the case when authorized_keys have TOO WIDE permisions, as oppose to cases where .ssh has 000 or authorized_keys exists but can not be read for some other strange reasons
[04:53] <limcore> so this logs other type of problem, and on server. So its another bug
[04:53] <hggdh> as long as the message is logged to the server, this is good
[04:54] <limcore> ok I will create another bug. It is similar, but something else
[04:54] <hggdh> I give up for the day. I really have to sleep. At least a bit.
[04:54] <limcore> bye hggdh
[04:54] <hggdh> g'night all y'all
[04:55] <limcore> 5 minutes of coding, 15 of testing, 1 hour of berucracy.. like UN :)
[05:07] <limcore> https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1694
[05:07] <ubot4> bugzilla.mindrot.org bug 1694 in ssh "If authorized_keys exists but can not be opened, this should be logged on server" [Minor,New]
[06:27] <om26er> plz mark this triaged https://bugs.launchpad.net/empathy/+bug/499529
[06:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 499529 in empathy "[wishlist] Order contacts by account in Empathy" [Undecided,New]
[07:11] <om26er> if a bug exists in empathy 2.28.1 and fixed in 2.29.4 plus its current statuse is new what status should i give it?
[07:13] <micahg> om26er: is there an upstream bug that confirms it's fixed in that version?
[07:17] <om26er__> micahg, not htere is no upstream but i tried it in fedora and ubuntu both using empathy 2.28.1 and it exists but not in 2.29.4
[07:17] <om26er__> sorry i got disconnected
[07:17] <micahg> om26er: we have that version in Lucid, you can set to incomplete and ask the user to test in Lucid
[07:18] <om26er__> ok thanx
[07:18] <micahg> om26er: maybe check the changelogs between the 2 versions to see if there is a mention of this bug
[07:18] <micahg> if so, then we can mark fix released
[07:18] <om26er__> ok i will do that
[07:19] <micahg> om26er__: with the appropriate note from the responses page about nominating for release
[10:26] <om26er> plz mark https://bugs.launchpad.net/window-picker-applet/+bug/496032 wishlist
[10:26] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 496032 in window-picker-applet "Prompt to force the closing of unresponsive windows" [Undecided,New]
[11:00] <LimCore> my patch to sshd that closes bug 505301 was accepted by upstream as https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/attachment.cgi?id=1772 into 5.4 release of sshd. How to get this small patch applied as well to sshd that will be in Lucid?
[11:00] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 505301 in openssh "openssh server should warn that .ssh/authorized_keys is not accessible (causing ssh pubkey authentication to fail silently)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/505301
[11:08] <om26er> plz make this https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/+bug/488839/ triaged?
[11:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 488839 in indicator-applet "Lock Screen disappeared. Also, I cannot change my status: Available , away, busy, etc (All dimmed)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[12:06]  * LimCore takes not, killing session - not the best idea
[12:13] <om26er> plz some one look into this and make the appropriate status for this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/504193
[12:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 504193 in empathy "a bit difficult to recognize the status of contacts" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[12:20] <om26er> triaged would be correct status
[12:30] <MrKanister> om26er: Thanks, done!
[12:31] <AnAnt> Hello, karmic freezes when compiz is enabled with a certain model of Intel graphics cards, should I report a bug against compiz or X or kernel or
[12:31] <AnAnt> what ?
[12:32] <persia> AnAnt.  What precisely freezes?  The kernel?  X?  Compiz?  The UI?  The app?
[12:33] <om26er> MrKanister, and this if you have time plz  https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/+bug/488839/
[12:33] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 488839 in indicator-applet "Lock Screen disappeared. Also, I cannot change my status: Available , away, busy, etc (All dimmed)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[12:37] <MrKanister> om26er: There are two packages affected, one "confirmed" and one "new", so let's wait for some more information on the bug. Thanks for helping , though.
[12:37] <AnAnt_> sorry, I got disconnected
[12:38] <AnAnt_> I was asking about karmic freezing with compizz
[12:38] <persia> AnAnt.  What precisely freezes?  The kernel?  X?  Compiz?  The UI?  The app?
[12:38] <AnAnt_> X freezes
[12:38] <AnAnt_> I can't even go to console (using Ctrl+Alt+F1) , so that made me suspect the kernel
[12:38] <AnAnt_> but I think I once managed to ssh to the machine
[12:39] <AnAnt_> so probably the kernel doesnt freeze
[12:39] <persia> I think you need a bit more investigation before you can file the bug
[12:40] <AnAnt_> persia: what else would I investigate ?
[12:40] <persia> Without the investigation, I'd start filing against X, but you might want to open an ssh session to the box before starting compiz, and see if you can determine how much hung.
[12:40] <persia> For instance, from the ssh session, you might be able to see if the OS is running.
[12:41] <AnAnt_> what does "how much hung" mean ?
[12:41] <persia> Where in the stack the hang is occuring.
[12:41] <AnAnt_> how can I find that out  ?
[12:41] <persia> I don't have a procedure, and I'm not knowledgeable enough to draft one.
[12:41] <AnAnt_> if I can SSH to the machine after the freeze happened, then surely the kernel didn't freeze, right ?
[12:42] <persia> Could I cause that crash, I'd probably start looking at ps, and see what I could do from an ssh session.
[12:42] <persia> Right.
[12:42] <persia> And you could check X by making some X calls
[12:42] <AnAnt_> X calls ?
[12:43] <persia> I'm not sure precisely how compiz and X interact, but you might be able to force-kill compiz, and see if X still works for new clients (by setting DISPLAY manually)
[12:43] <AnAnt_> ah, ok
[12:43] <persia> Yeah.  Depending on your knowledge, anything from trying to start a new xterm to running some cool test program that exercises the server.
[12:43] <AnAnt_> thanks
[12:44] <persia> If it's not the kernel, and it's not X, it's probably compiz :)
[12:44] <persia> Good luck.
[13:45] <LimCore> ssh-add / ssh agent vulnerability, affecting 9.10 and 10.04, upstream (SSH) also says its security vulnerability, please mark as medium -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/505278
[13:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 505278 in openssh "ssh-add -D deleting all identities does not work. Also, why are all identities auto-added?" [Low,Confirmed]
[14:13] <ericrost> hey all, the latest firefox upgrade broke hulu on 64 bit ubuntu
[14:14] <ericrost> seeing if I can reproduce again, have reinstalled flash player, all other flash sites work as expected. I'm in the US and its acting as though I'm behind a proxy
[14:14] <ericrost> also, I have another PC in the house (also ubuntu but not up to date) that can access just fine
[14:14] <ericrost> I reproduced with guest account (to make sure its not cookies or local settings)
[14:15] <ericrost> synaptic won't let me pin the version of firefox to the previous version and reinstall (it breaks)
[14:15] <ericrost> can't get flash working on a local install in home directory, will try installing to /usr/local
[14:16] <ericrost> currently upgrading other pc to see if problem reoccurs
[14:23] <ericrost> unable to reproduce on a 32 bit system
[14:27] <ericrost> flash version is 10.0.42.34, everything checks out ok
[14:43] <ericrost> hmm... hard to reproduce independently since I can't find a 64 bit build of firefox for linux publically available
[14:43] <ericrost> the version off of mozilla.com is 32 bit
[14:44] <ericrost> thus 64 bit flash not working with it
[14:44] <ericrost> LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /usr/local/bin/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so [/usr/local/bin/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64]
[14:45] <opengeek_> somebody know how data i have to collect to put a bug as confirmed in launchpad
[14:45] <opengeek_> ?
[14:46] <nigelbabu> opengeek_, what is the bug about?
[14:46] <opengeek_> nigelbabu, is about kpackagekit and proxy settins
[14:47] <nigelbabu> generally you have to give ubuntu-bug <package-name> if there is an appot hook
[14:47] <opengeek_> nigelbabu, is this bug 498356
[14:47] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 498356 in kpackagekit "KPackageKit fail to update or download packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/498356
[14:47] <ericrost> windows firefox loads hulu just fine on same box
[14:47] <ericrost> (wine)
[14:48] <nigelbabu> opengeek_, you have to tell me if thats what you were about to log a bug about
[14:49] <opengeek_> opengeek, no just i'm asking what I have to do to put tis bug as confirmed
[14:50] <opengeek_> nigelbabu, no just i'm asking what I have to do to put this bug as confirmed
[14:51] <nigelbabu> opengeek_, is it a bug you're facing or are you part of bug squad?
[14:51] <opengeek_> nigelbabo, is a bug that I'm facing
[14:53] <opengeek_> nigelbabu, is a bug that I'm facing
[14:53] <opengeek_> nigelbabu, sorry for the multiple messages i'm not used to talk in IRCs
[14:53] <nigelbabu> opengeek_, its ok, gimme a minute, readin up the bug
[14:58] <nigelbabu> opengeek_, confirmed
[14:59] <opengeek_> nigelbabu, thanks
[15:00] <nigelbabu> ericrost, can you describe your problem better please?
[15:00] <ericrost> nigelbabu: I recently installed the latest updates from the repos
[15:01] <ericrost> this system is probably a month old on 9.10
[15:01] <ericrost> hulu and flash were working just fine, have flash installed locally from adobes 64 bit prerelease plugin
[15:01] <opengeek_> nigelbabu, I have some experience programing in C++ maybe I'll try to solve it in February if none has soved it yet now I have exams
[15:01] <ericrost> as soon as I updated to the latest firefox hulu stopped working and gives an error as through I'm using a proxy
[15:02] <ericrost> this is the only config in which this error occurs, I have a 32 bit 9.10 box that works just fine all up to date
[15:02] <nigelbabu> opengeek_, great :)
[15:02] <ericrost> and firefox under wine with the latest win32 flash works on this machine so its not network related
[15:02] <nigelbabu> ericrost, is the linux firefox working okay?
[15:02] <ericrost> I am going to the repo version of flash at the moment to test
[15:02] <ericrost> firefox is just fine
[15:02] <ericrost> this is only hulu.com
[15:03] <opengeek_> nigelbabu, but it will be my first bug that i'll try to solve maby i'll need some guidance
[15:03] <nigelbabu> its about flash?
[15:03] <ericrost> except flash hasn't changed
[15:03] <ericrost> and I've reinstalled so its a compatibility issue with the latest firefox
[15:03] <nigelbabu> opengeek_, if you are trying to fix a bug, the motu team is what you want.  Ask in #ubuntu-motu
[15:03] <opengeek_> nigelbabu, ok thanks
[15:03] <ericrost> only thing that changed was the version of firefox
[15:03] <nigelbabu> ericrost, what plugins/addons do you have installed?
[15:03] <ericrost> none
[15:04] <ericrost> reproducable in guest session
[15:04] <ericrost> also blew away my ~/.mozilla directory
[15:04] <ericrost> only plugin I'm using is libflashplayer.so
[15:04] <nigelbabu> no add-ons?
[15:04] <ericrost> which is 10.0.42.34
[15:04] <ericrost> nope, uninstalled them all
[15:05] <ericrost> only shows the ubuntu firefox modifications
[15:05] <ericrost> and the stock ubuntu plugins
[15:05] <nigelbabu> ericrost, ok, hold on.  Lemme ask the mozilla guys if its a known issue
[15:05] <nigelbabu> this is only when using flash under wine?
[15:06] <ericrost> no, flash under wine was a test
[15:06] <ericrost> and it worked, this is only 64 bit firefox, 64 bit flash, under ubuntu
[15:07] <nigelbabu> what do you see the the flash is supposed to work?
[15:07] <nigelbabu> do u see a grey box?
[15:08] <ericrost> I see flash
[15:08] <ericrost> and it gives me a message from hulu
[15:08] <ericrost> flash works everywhere else
[15:08] <nigelbabu> so, what is the issue?
[15:08] <ericrost> hulu works in other configurations on the same box
[15:09] <nigelbabu> ericrost, ok, I'm lost, so what is the issue that you're facing
[15:09] <ericrost> eh, the nspluginwrapper version from the repos works, guess you guys really can't be expected to support a prerelease from adobe, just very odd breakage
[15:09] <nigelbabu> can you describe it more clearly
[15:09] <ericrost> sure: when firefox updated
[15:10] <nigelbabu> ericrost, it is a pre-release from adobe?
[15:10] <ericrost> hulu.com stopped streaming video to my machine with no other changes
[15:10] <ericrost> I had the 64 bit prerelease flash plugin installed and working before the update to firefox
[15:11] <ericrost> after firefox updated, hulu stopped working while all other flash sites were working just fine
[15:11] <ericrost> instead of a video, I get "We're sorry, we cannot stream this video, please check your internet connection and try again"
[15:11] <nigelbabu> ericrost, sorry, only software part of the ubuntu packages come under the purview of ubuntu bug squad
[15:12] <ericrost> ok, fullscreen flash is not working with the ubuntu package
[15:12] <ericrost> and everything was working with the adobe prerelease
[15:12] <nigelbabu> ericrost, you can log a bug for the fullscreen flash not working with the ubuntu package
[15:13] <ericrost> this sucks. I had my setup working properly and an update broke it. The packages are screwed enough with dependencies that I can't drop back a version
[15:14] <ericrost> and now I'm stuck with less functionality
[15:14] <ericrost> might just need to reinstall fedora
[15:16] <nigelbabu> ericrost, do u have an intel display driver?
[15:16] <ericrost> nope nvidia
[15:17] <ericrost> yep, I can go back and forth to the flash version that was previously working
[15:17] <ericrost> and I can't reproduce with a non ubuntu firefox since 64 bit isn't publically available
[15:20] <nigelbabu> ericrost, hm.
[15:20] <nigelbabu> ericrost, compiz enabled?
[15:20] <nigelbabu> or installed?
[15:20] <ericrost> should be enabled and installed by default
[15:20] <ericrost> I'll check
[15:20] <ericrost> visual effects are normal, so enabled and installed
[15:20] <nigelbabu> ericrost, http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6814420&postcount=3
[15:21] <ericrost> works just fine with compiz and 64 bit flash for anything but hulu
[15:22] <ericrost> going back to repo version to check
[15:24] <ericrost> that works fullscreen. This is a pretty major breakage that a lot of people are gonna complain about. The nspluginwrapper flash has long had problems with locking up (which was why I had 64 bit flash installed in the first place)
[15:25] <nigelbabu> fixed now?
[15:25] <ericrost> ish, now compiz is effectively broken
[15:25] <ericrost> doesn't change that its a bug with firefox
[15:26] <ericrost> worked previously, doesn't work now
[15:26] <ericrost> and firefox version change is the x factor
[15:27] <ericrost> I really wish someone would sit mozilla, canonical, and adobe in a room and get these problems solved. Flash acceleration is my only gripe with ubuntu. I can't use it as my main htpc and am going to end up buying a boxee box to have Netflix and gpu accelerated hulu and other flash
[15:27] <ericrost> its a big black eye as far as a "desktop experience"
[15:28] <ericrost> I understand its not the community that can do these things but I think shuttleworth could work some mojo and fix this
[15:28] <nigelbabu> ericrost, saying this stuff here is just rant
[15:28] <nigelbabu> we dont do it
[15:29] <ericrost> I know, its just infuriating. After three years of steady progress on all other fronts this is the stupidest reason to have this system fail for the masses
[15:29] <nigelbabu> ericrost, flash is not open source
[15:29] <ericrost> a lot of work going to waste as the closed world continues to have a better product
[15:29] <ericrost> its still prolific
[15:30] <nigelbabu> if if it were, this would have been fixed more easily
[15:30] <ericrost> I know
[15:30] <nigelbabu> since dev's cant work on it, we can't do anything
[15:30] <ericrost> that's part of the frustration
[15:30] <nigelbabu> anyway, we are going offtopic here
[15:30] <xteejx> hi guys
[15:30] <ericrost> I love ubuntu and use it, but just chafe at these simple shortcomings... I gotta get ready to leave anyhow, sorry to waste valuable dev time
[15:32] <xteejx> ericrost: we aren't developers ;)
[15:33] <nigelbabu> ericrost, like xteejx, we're triagers, not developers
[15:33] <ericrost> ahh
[15:33] <ericrost> well, I'm gonna be sure to pass the pain along on adobe's buglist
[15:33] <ericrost> with suitable rant
[15:34] <ericrost> that's two hours of my life I won't get back
[15:34] <nigelbabu> I would suggest that you dont do the rant
[15:34] <xteejx> Adobe won't listen to rants
[15:34] <xteejx> if at all....
[15:35] <nigelbabu> as such they launched the linux version (I suspect) because gnash project was a threat
[15:35] <ericrost> I'm just hoping that the secret sauce boxee is using to make netflix work on linux on their hardware gets released after they polish it up (a bit off the original topic too)
[15:36] <xteejx> its a known fact flash and linux dont like to play well, bring compiz into the equation and it gets worse, but with non open source products like Adobe flash, we can only wait for them to get to it
[15:37] <xteejx> also, Adobe are very in M$ pocket so don't expect any quick fixes
[15:37] <xteejx> anyway offtopic now :)
[15:38] <hggdh> indeed
[15:38] <hggdh> :-)
[15:39] <LimCore> hggdh: my patch had been accpeted by upstream in ssh
[15:39] <LimCore> micahg too
[15:39] <nigelbabu> hey hggdh :)
[15:40] <xteejx> hey hggdh
[15:43] <LimCore> btw bug 505278 awaits to be prioritized to medium, please set it
[15:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 505278 in openssh "ssh-add -D deleting all identities does not work. Also, why are all identities auto-added?" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/505278
[15:54] <micahg> hggdh: around?
[15:56] <hggdh> good, LimCore
[15:56] <hggdh> hi xteejx
[15:56] <micahg> LimCore: that was marked as Low priority already + I don't see upstream listing as security vuln
[15:56] <hggdh> micahg: yes
[15:56] <LimCore> micahg: it is, read last comment of upstrea bug linked fro my bug
[15:56] <xteejx> hey micahg, hggdh, how are ya both?
[15:57] <LimCore> I mean ssh developer said what I had it mind, if ssh -D does not work, then something is really wrong
[15:57] <micahg> LimCore: sorry, I really need to read every line upstream...
[15:57]  * micahg and mornings...
[15:57] <LimCore> I have to leave soon. But if anyone can inestiage, ssh -D seems to be a bug actually in one of SSH agents
[15:58] <LimCore> but as there is no help or hints (as I advocated yesterday) I am confused and I have no idea how the ssh agent works =) perhaps someone here does know
[15:58] <micahg> hggdh: if some attached a .crash, then can I subscribe the retracer?
[16:02] <hggdh> micahg: no, the retracer does not work on a .crash -- but
[16:03] <hggdh> micahg: you can download the crash and split off the files, and upload them again
[16:03] <hggdh> or, if you have the same environment as the OR, you can run /usr/share/apport/apport-gtk locally
[16:04] <hggdh> (chances are you do not)
[16:04] <micahg> I can run apport-cli and upload the .crash, right?
[16:05] <hggdh> you can try, but both environments (yours and the OR) must match
[16:05] <micahg> hmm, I thought that was fixed
[16:06] <hggdh> oh, there is the chroot apport may use
[16:06] <hggdh> worth a try
[16:06] <micahg> maybe in lucid
[16:07] <xteejx> can apport-collect be used to collect for more than one hook at once?
[16:07] <hggdh> LimCore: Hobbsee has already added a task for seahorse
[16:08] <hggdh> xteejx: yes, by using the -p parametre
[16:08] <hggdh> parameter
[16:08] <hggdh> whatever
[16:08] <xteejx> so -p linux alsa-driver ...blah blah
[16:08] <xteejx> ?
[16:08] <hggdh> oh, I do not think at the same run
[16:08] <hggdh> -p linux, then -p alsa-base, then -p ...
[16:09] <LimCore> Hobbsee: im not sure is its seahorse... I tried killing all agents I had running and same problem. But Im not sure how to debug it. There could be more manuals/hints saying who caches the ssh keys and how to debug it
[16:09] <hggdh> LimCore: on Gnome it is seahorse (via seahorse-agent)
[16:09] <hggdh> IDN about KDE, though
[16:09] <xteejx> oh, its bug 296115, but its in pm-utils for sound error on resume, but in karmic this would just be acpi-support right? so if its sill a problem is it just the acpi-support hook thats needed?
[16:09] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 296115 in pm-utils "[Intrepid] No sound after resuming from suspend/hibernation Panasonic CF-R7" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296115
[16:09] <xteejx> hggdh: ^
[16:10] <xteejx> or alsa-driver as well?
[16:11] <hggdh> xteejx: I would guess both, but one of the soundmeisters will know (and I am not such one, my sound *sometimes* work)
[16:11] <hggdh> and I do not really care ;-)
[16:11] <xteejx> lol ok
[16:11]  * hggdh does not usually watch movies, flash, or music on the laptop
[16:14] <om26er> can any one give me template page about directing people for reporting a bug upstream or recommending them to go to brainstorm.ubuntu.com
[16:18] <LimCore> if some software would be totally retarded in some parts of it
[16:18] <LimCore> does it make sense to make ubuntu patches or form it into ubuntu?  but that could be a big patch
[16:18] <hggdh> om26er: would https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream help?
[16:19] <hggdh> LimCore: usually we would rather have upstream accepting a patch. When needed we use local paches, but this increases the work locally to move to a new upstream release
[16:20] <hggdh> LimCore: the difference between upstream and us is called a delta. We like deltas to be either non-existant, or kept to a minimum
[16:21] <LimCore> hggdh: I worry about trac developers state of mind. They choose to use mm/dd/yy format. I mean.. why would ANYONE do it.
[16:21] <hggdh> LimCore: additionally, a large local patch has a greater chance of needing refactoring on a release change
[16:21] <aburch> LimCore: I would suggest convincing upstream for that issue.
[16:21] <hggdh> LimCore: perhaps because they are in the US? But this would be a valid upstream issue, i18n
[16:21] <LimCore> but this date format is deeply retarded, is it not
[16:22] <hggdh> what it is, or is not, does not matter. What matters here is the project has bad i18n
[16:22] <LimCore> just imaging if more pople would do it.  foo.1.1-ubuntu+svn12-03-09    (03-12-2009 !)
[16:22] <hggdh> (what you see as retarded, others may see as correct. Be careful when you state something like that)
[16:23] <hggdh> LimCore: all 300 americans would understand it (and I am *not* one, BTW)
[16:23] <hggdh> I mean 300 *million*
[16:23] <LimCore> some standarizing commiteet should say everyone uses yyyy-mm-dd which is clearly superior because of it's date = numberic = alpha sort
[16:24] <hggdh> some standardising comittee already said that -- ISO
[16:24] <LimCore> right
[16:24] <LimCore> and we should follow that
[16:24] <LimCore> as ubutnu does for SVN path/dates, as every does. with few regretfull exceptions
[16:24] <hggdh> this is set in ISO 8601, I think
[16:25] <aburch> LimCore: Almost noone follows that standard.
[16:25] <hggdh> No. We cannot force it
[16:25] <LimCore> aburch: backup.xxxx.tgz how would you format xxxx date?
[16:25] <hggdh> LimCore: as long as you follow *one* standard, how does it matter?
[16:26] <aburch> LimCore: UNIX timestamps.
[16:26] <LimCore> hggdh: it matters because only one format sorts always correctly no matter alpha/num/date sort
[16:26] <hggdh> for you, if you do not want to get fresh with sort options
[16:27] <LimCore> I ment sort as in verb, not as in sort application :) yyyymmdd is comptabile with every existing sorting is it not. Also compatible with mostimporatnt ot leastimportant convention used for decimals
[16:29] <aburch> LimCore: Then convince the developers of your favorite program to use that format (or yyyy-mm-dd which is more readable for humans)
[16:32] <hggdh> I would be against such move.
[16:33] <hggdh> timestamps should allow for localisaiton
[16:33] <LimCore> hggdh: then which format we should use
[16:33] <hggdh> how I localise them is *my* problem
[16:33] <LimCore> there are to questions:  how to store it "internally" (in DB, in file names)  and 2. do we localize it
[16:33] <LimCore> 2. yes, it should be localizable by user
[16:33] <hggdh> the fact that I personally use 8601 does not mean everybody else in the world must also use it
[16:33] <LimCore> 1. internally yyyymmdd makes more sense
[16:34] <LimCore> does 1+2 is ok as a general goal?
[16:34] <hggdh> ?? why not a time_t-type of thing?
[16:35] <hggdh> how it is internally would concern only the developers. How it is displayed concerns the users
[16:35] <hggdh> so there is no (1), only (2)
[16:35] <LimCore> by time_t you mean UNIX seconds? they are not human usable, while yyyymmdd is human usable AND have all the good properties of unix time, and plus, it ihas constant length
[16:35] <LimCore> developers, and admins, as in my case
[16:36] <LimCore> and bug reporters and new developers / bug fixers
[16:36] <hggdh> nope
[16:36] <aburch> LimCore: It does *not* have all good properties of UNIX time unless you *also* use UTC (which you cannot tell from the format).
[16:36] <hggdh> heh. Another good point :-)
[16:38] <LimCore> aburch: yes, even better to have always in UTC
[16:38] <hggdh> which, incidentally, will make the displayed timestamp prone to issues on sorting the ts as a string
[16:38] <LimCore> yyyymmdd utc seems best ever then?
[16:39] <aburch> LimCore: And even then UNIX timestamps have advantages.  For example you do not need a parser to calculate differences.
[16:39] <LimCore> aburch: padded unix timestap also is good
[16:39] <LimCore> this 2 formats seem most used from what I see, and I think this is for good reason - it works out
[16:41] <hggdh> ...
[16:41] <aburch> But changing this in the Ubuntu (or Debian) packages is wrong.  It should either be changed upstream or not at all.
[16:41] <hggdh> +1
[16:42] <hggdh> anyway, this is way OT for -bugs
[16:42] <aburch> Changing behaviour is a bad idea (apart from bug fixes).  For example, scripts parsing the output will suddenly fail.
[16:43] <hggdh> brb. time for a reboot (10:42 AM). Heh.
[16:45] <aburch> And also sometimes other standards demand a specific format.
[16:49] <ikonia> hggdh: quick reboot
[16:49] <hggdh> ikonia: yes, bless the work done on karmic/Lucid :-)
[16:49] <LimCore> that trac dates is most annoying thing so far this year

[16:50] <hggdh> LimCore: open a bug. Ask for localisation
[16:50] <LimCore> hggdh: anything more needed for that more-debug patch for sshd to go into Lucid? upstream has it in 5.4 but its trivial patch
[16:51] <hggdh> LimCore: you can apply it on current SSH on Lucid, and confirm it works; then propose a debdiff
[16:51] <hggdh> or attach the *upstream* patch (as upstream accepted it) on the bug, and wait
[17:00] <hggdh> LimCore: just a comment: you would do better to minimise opinions and maximise facts. For example saying something 'is retarded' is an opinion, and does not help any on explaining the issue
[17:02] <hggdh> saying 'trac creates the filename on backups with a fixed format date' is a fact
[17:02] <hggdh> saying 'it should allow for localisation' is also a *technical* observation
[17:02] <ikonia> it will get taken a little more serioulsy and respectful in that situation
[17:03] <hggdh> indeed.
[17:47] <micahg> om26er: do you have moblin?
[18:25] <jbicha> hi, does anyone else experience bug 429978 on Lucid?
[18:25] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 429978 in empathy "The requested URI "ghelp:empathy" is invalid" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429978
[18:31] <^arky^> jbicha: looking
[18:41] <hggdh> jbicha: works for me, Lucid
[18:42] <jbicha> it doesn't even work on the command line for me now, is there something I should run to regenerate documentation or something
[18:42] <hggdh> jbicha: version 2.29.4-1ubuntu1
[18:43] <jbicha> yeah, I have the same version as that for empathy and empathy-common installed and yelp 2.28.0+webkit-1ubuntu1
[18:44] <^arky^> jbicha: on lucid empathy is broken so can't really test it
[18:44] <hggdh> jbicha: I do not really know. bcurtiswx works more with empathy than I do
[18:45] <jbicha> I'm a Pidgin guy myself still, but it seems kinda important if Help works for some but not for others
[18:46] <jbicha> I know that empathy is the first major Gnome app to switch to the fancy new Mallard documentation system
[18:54] <hggdh> yes
[19:05] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: let me start my VM and i'll check the bug
[19:08] <bcurtiswx> is xchat going to become back of the indicator applet?
[19:08] <bcurtiswx> part*
[19:08] <bcurtiswx> not back
[19:11] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: that bug is not present in Lucid
[19:11] <jbicha> umm
[19:12] <bcurtiswx> so your empathy is broken
[19:12] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: should I open a new bug then? because it doesn't work for me, perhaps the underlying cause is different than the one that was fixed
[19:12] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: is that the only problem you see on empathy lucid
[19:13] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: yes but I don't use empathy much
[19:13] <jbicha> let me try a purge and reinstall then
[19:13] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: yeah i was just going to suggest that
[19:14] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: if still a problem, in empathy there's a feature to report a bug.. use that and make a new one then let me know of the bug number
[19:16] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: Help-->Report a Problem
[19:23] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: bug 505597
[19:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 505597 in empathy "[lucid] The requested URI "ghelp:empathy" is invalid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/505597
[19:25] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: try one more thing.  sudo apt-get install --reinstall yelp
[19:29] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: still broken, sorry :-(
[19:29] <bcurtiswx> don't be, just thinking of other problems... can you use help in other apps?
[19:30] <cyan-spam> hello all.
[19:30] <cyan-spam> anyone know the right package for the boot menu on the live cd?
[19:30] <bcurtiswx> hi cyan-spam
[19:30] <bcurtiswx> you were picked up by hggdh, right?
[19:31] <bcurtiswx> cyan-spam: are you talking about the grub bootloader?
[19:31] <cyan-spam> correct, hggdh adopted me
[19:31] <cyan-spam> and... maybe?
[19:31] <bcurtiswx> i think you are
[19:31] <cyan-spam> it could be grub... just looks different
[19:31] <bcurtiswx> lucid?
[19:32] <cyan-spam> i mean the menu with the logo you get when booting from the livecd
[19:32] <cyan-spam> where you can try it, install, memtest, etc
[19:33] <bcurtiswx> cyan-spam: ok thats ubiquity, maybe
[19:33] <cyan-spam> i think it's before ubiquity, also
[19:33] <cyan-spam> it's the stuff in the isolinux directory
[19:33] <cyan-spam> but there's no package called isolinux
[19:34] <bcurtiswx> yeah, i know what you're talking about.. and yes im not sure if its before ubiquity or not
[19:34] <bcurtiswx> ask in #ubuntu they may know
[19:34] <charlie-tca> It's ubiquity still
[19:34] <cyan-spam> oh ok, thanks charlie-tca
[19:34]  * bcurtiswx hugs charlie-tca..
[19:34] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[19:34] <cyan-spam> i'll update the FindRightPackage page to clarify that
[19:35] <bcurtiswx> i guess i won't be skeptical on my first guess
[19:35] <charlie-tca> should be ubiquity for any issues with trying to make the cd work until you get to the desktop
[19:35] <cyan-spam> FindRightPackage says that bugs during boot process should be filed against kernel... is that incorrect?
[19:37] <charlie-tca> yes
[19:37] <charlie-tca> crap
[19:37] <xteejx> phew!!!!!! down from 670 to 308 subscribed bugs thank god, kept forgetting to remove myself lol!
[19:37] <charlie-tca> that's right. ubiquity is during installs; kernel is booting
[19:38] <cyan-spam> does that change your previous advice about the boot menu, charlie-tca? :)
[19:38] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:38] <cyan-spam> oh whoops already wrote it in a bug report!
[19:38] <cyan-spam> don't worry i won't blame you ;-0
[19:38] <cyan-spam> ;-)*
[19:38] <charlie-tca> It will get changed by the intaller team if it is wrong, though
[19:38] <xteejx> is the wiki being updated?
[19:39] <cyan-spam> ok that's fine
[19:39] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: help appears to work in every other program I have
[19:40] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: ok
[19:41] <xteejx> is there a system in Launchpad in place for pruning old bugs, i.e. messaging them "is this still a problem you havent bothered for a year" ??
[19:42] <bcurtiswx> xteejx: bdmurray would know
[19:42] <charlie-tca> Depends on whether or not the bug got triaged, doesn't it?
[19:42] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: i'm waiting for a response from the telepathy guys.. i'll get back to you once i hear from them
[19:43] <bcurtiswx> jbicha: probably through your bug
[19:43] <xteejx> charlie-tca, that's what i mean, there are SOOOO damn many bugs from the days of feisty, and gutsy that were just left and afaik about 80% were just taking up numbers
[19:43] <cyan-spam> xteejx: old, "New" bugs have a response for that at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses>.
[19:43] <cyan-spam> but if they're already triaged they should be fixed or confirmed that they already are fixed
[19:44] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: cool
[19:44] <xteejx> cyan-spam, I've been triaging for nearly 2 years I'm aware of the procedures :D
[19:44] <charlie-tca> I have old bugs in Xubuntu from gutsy and before that are now being fix-release cleared
[19:44] <cyan-spam> ok, sorry :)
[19:44] <xteejx> no worries :)
[19:44] <xteejx> its just annoying, messing our stats up making us look bad
[19:44] <charlie-tca> We just got the fixes out to take care of them.
[19:45] <charlie-tca> I try not to do a "can you try again" after it got triaged
[19:45] <bcurtiswx> xteejx: yeah, i'd poke bdmurray, i think i've wondered about the same before and forgot to bug bdmurray
[19:46] <bcurtiswx> xteejx: you could make on and test in staging, i don't know python well enough to make one myself
[19:46] <xteejx> bcurtiswx, I think I asked him before and got told something along the lines of "thats the point of triaging" lol
[19:46] <bcurtiswx> xteejx: oh really... <facepalm>
[19:46] <xteejx> bcurtiswx, programming is WAY beyond my knowledge I think thats a no-go lol
[19:46] <xteejx> would be nice though
[19:47] <bcurtiswx> xteejx: a longshot, bug the #launchpad channel may have people that can write you one real quick
[19:47] <bcurtiswx> i have one somewhere that moves a dup witha lot of dupes in itself
[19:48] <xteejx> I filed a wish bug for that against malone about a year or so ago hehe :)
[19:48] <xteejx> **launchpad
[19:48] <xteejx> join #launchpad
[19:48] <xteejx> oops :)
[19:49] <bcurtiswx> xteejx: if I can find the python script maybe I can figure out how to edit it appropriately  to find old bugs and ask if its still a problem
[19:50] <xteejx> bcurtiswx, cool :)
[19:51] <xteejx> I have no hope of figuring it out
[19:51] <bcurtiswx> xteejx: this all assumes im going to find it and know enough to edit it appropriately :X
[19:52] <xteejx> bcurtiswx: starting to sound like me :-S
[19:52] <xteejx> lol
[19:52] <bcurtiswx> lol
[19:54] <xteejx> Well, I've asked in #launchpad about the pruning system, waiting for a reply
[20:11] <xteejx> no reply yet.....
[20:17] <vish> bcurtiswx: iirc amaranth used something like that for compiz
[20:20] <__THE> GRR
[20:21] <xteejx> irc grr
[20:26] <xteejx> is there anyone able to triage a bug for me, i've provided quite a bit of info, should be enough but can't chang my own bugs status bug 462608
[20:26] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 462608 in linux "Compaq Presario CQ50 wireless button not working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462608
[20:46] <yofel> is there anything still needed on bug 502641?
[20:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 502641 in apt "[Lucid] apt-get source always selects highest available version instead of the specified one" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502641
[20:57] <bcurtiswx> vish: noted thx
[20:58] <jpds> yofel: There's a Debian bug about that, linked.
[20:59] <yofel> jpds: thanks.
[22:46] <LimCore_> why I can not edit status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pinentry/+bug/326132 previously that was possible
[22:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 326132 in pinentry "[wishlist] Pinentry does not allow to paste into it, why?!" [Undecided,New]
[22:50] <nigel_nb> LimCore_, logged into LP?
[22:50] <LimCore_> uhhuh. Ok Im sleppy
[22:50] <nigel_nb> hehe
[22:51] <nigel_nb> happened to me yday lol