[00:41] you're working late this evening seb128 ;) [00:42] chrisccoulson, yeah, alpha2 freeze is tomorrow so I prefer to push updates today if I can [00:42] seb128 - are there any other updates you particularly want to get in A2? [00:43] chrisccoulson, no [00:43] those I'm doing now I don't especially care about getting those in a2 [00:43] that's just that once they are done I don't have to think about those [00:43] and can switch back to login speed and indicators [00:43] which are the things I want to work on [00:44] I'm doing gedit right now and I will be done [00:44] I will let other updates for those who are interested ;-) [00:45] the libxklavier, libgnomekbd updates have a soname change and some refactoring [00:45] yeah, i need to look at login speed again too :) [00:45] so that will rather wait after alpha [00:45] gnome-keyring I'm not sure we want to update [00:45] I've sent an email to upstream about their plan for this cycle [00:45] seb128 - yeah, i saw the announcement for that [00:45] so, they've actually split it? [00:45] yes [00:45] so that's a new source package now? [00:46] definately no good for A2 ;) [00:46] libgnome-keyring is a different source [00:46] right [00:46] I'm not sure it's a good plan for lucid [00:46] they did quite some refactoring [00:46] like gnome-keyring uses a dbus api now [00:47] and the lib is only wrapping that for compatibility or something [00:47] yeah, seems like the changes are quite heavy [00:48] robert_ancell, if you feel doing a break from gdm and doing a desktop update gnome-games is yours ;-) [00:48] seb128, will do [00:48] thanks [00:49] i hope it doesn't take me 3 hours to get to work tomorrow morning [00:49] did I already say that having the tetris game not named tetris is stupid? ;-) [00:49] chrisccoulson, did you figure what happened there? [00:50] seb128 - i think it was just due to the ice. i didn't see any accidents, but none of the roads i drive on had been gritted [00:50] i could have walked to work faster this morning [00:50] i'll end up having to work over the weekend to make up time ;) [00:51] you should have worked in the car ;-) [00:51] lol [00:51] if i had a laptop, then that would be perfect :) [00:53] seb128, hey, is there any plans to make a C# version of launchpad-integration? [00:54] not by me [00:54] seb128, oh yes, the new game names are awful... [00:54] who did decide on those? [00:54] seb128, not sure, I think it was the SOC people who rewrote them [00:55] I think there's a trademark issue with Tetris but I'm never sure about that one [00:55] like somebody is going to sue you because you named the gnome game gnometris? [00:56] come on... ;-) [00:56] could you try to put some common sense to the other team member there [00:57] the tetris game should be *tris [01:00] IANAL :) [01:02] !!! [01:09] heh, i wonder how long it is before i start getting abusive comments on bug 428884 [01:09] Launchpad bug 428884 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver-command --poke no longer inhibits screensaver" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428884 [01:11] chrisccoulson, oh, that didn't happen yet? [01:11] * seb128 starts writting [01:11] seb128 - i've just backed out the patch which fixes it in karmic, as it causes a regression [01:11] and i have a real patch to fix it, but it depends on another bug in xorg being fixed first [01:12] right, I've been reading the ubuntu-x discussion [01:12] the didn't happen yet was a joke, but it's clearly too late for me to success at making one [01:12] unfortunately, the xorg change would have a high regression potential, as the regression there was to fix weird races with idletime and DPMS blanking [01:12] ;-) [01:13] heh :) [01:13] yeah, the bug sucks [01:13] but it's only screensaver [01:13] a bit annoying but not end of the world [01:13] yeah, it's quite annoying. and it only affects components that i don't use ;) [01:14] those users clearly have bad taste! [01:14] lol [01:14] they all use VLC [01:14] it seems quite popular [01:14] and it works perfectly ok in totem [01:20] ok, enough work for me for today [01:20] I know how the week is going to end if I start abusing too much [01:20] I will feel too tired and useless [01:22] yeah, i think i might finish for the night soon as well [01:23] 'night everybody [01:24] good night chrisccoulson [01:24] see you tomorrow [01:24] night seb128 === jono_ is now known as jono === Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth === eeejay is now known as eeejay_away === eeejay_away is now known as eeejay === Kermiac_ is now known as Kermiac === eeejay is now known as eeejay_away === \vish is now known as vish === asac_ is now known as asac [07:57] bonjour [07:57] salut pitti_ [08:03] pitti: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/versions.html -> 404 [08:04] right [08:05] baptistemm: I killed that by accident, and my server is down right now [08:05] baptistemm: once it's back up I restore it [08:05] ah okay, sorry to hear that [08:43] good morning everyone [08:45] hey chrisccoulson [08:46] hey pitti, how are you? [08:46] Riddell: there's one WI for you for alpha-2 "kdm needs equivalent patches to gdm" (for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-boot-experience); I assume this is the updated upstart conditions? [08:46] chrisccoulson: c'est bon, arrived in Paris yesterday; doing sprint now [08:47] pitti - excellent :) [08:47] did you see the scrollback from yesterday? [08:52] chrisccoulson: no, my server went down last nicht [08:52] night [08:53] pitti - the recent gnome-screensaver SRU in karmic caused a regression, which 3 people reported separately yesterday [08:54] so i had to roll back the change for now, as there seems to be no other way to fix the original bug :( [08:57] chrisccoulson: ah, saw the -changes mail now; thanks [08:58] chrisccoulson: it didn't move to -updates yet, right? so the regression was just in proposed [08:58] pitti - yeah, it has been in -updates since december i think [08:58] i'm slightly confused why we only started getting reports yesterday though [08:58] oh, oops [08:59] pitti - oh, not quite. it went in to -updates on 2/01 [09:00] chrisccoulson: so the new one should be copied to updates right now [09:00] pitti - slangasek has already done that now i think [09:00] ah, I see [09:00] nice [09:00] chrisccoulson: so 505789 still needs to be fixed in lucid? [09:01] good morning [09:01] lucid upgrade = fail today [09:01] * seb128 is annoyed [09:01] bonjour seb128 [09:01] the mini got no screen after boot [09:01] seb128: what's wrong? [09:01] just what seems to be plymonth [09:01] pitti - yeah, i wasn't too sure what to do about lucid. for karmic, i just rolled back the patch. for lucid, i have the real gnome-screensaver fix, but it doesn't work yet due to a xorg regression [09:01] hey seb128 [09:01] and I don't manage to open the grub2 menu [09:01] the laptop has no X cursor [09:01] nor compiz working [09:02] it's not handy to click somewhere when you don't see the pointer on screen [09:02] it's there I can move it it highlight things [09:02] but I can't see it [09:02] pitti - ScottK mentioned last night about notifying the TB about the regression in karmic. i just send an e-mail to the mailing list right? [09:02] chrisccoulson: it's not such a biggie, but thanks [09:03] pitti - thanks [09:08] * pitti -> offline for now, sprint going on [09:11] pitti, you guys better doesn't upgrade [09:11] seb128: ok, thanks for the warning [09:11] salut chrisccoulson & seb128 [09:12] there were a lot of X.org updates yesterday [09:12] hey baptistemm [09:15] can someone verify if bug #492649 affects lucid? [09:15] Launchpad bug 492649 in gnome-power-manager "Laptop automatically suspends right after resume if power cable was disconnected before resuming" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/492649 [09:17] no actually come to think of it, it should affect lucid. [09:40] hyperair: It definitely affects lucid. Thanks for pointing that out; I'll subscribe :) [09:41] RAOF: i've got a patch ready. [09:41] RAOF: gimme a bit of time and i'll get it uploaded. [09:41] i need to test it [09:49] seb128: Hi, did you drop the dependency on xulrunner-dev for libgjs-dev on purpose in your last gjs upload? (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36422377/gjs_0.4-3ubuntu1_0.4-3ubuntu2.diff.gz) [09:50] geser, yes [09:52] so the gjs.pc file is wrong on still relying on mozilla-js.pc? (see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/37757005/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.gnome-shell_2.28.1~git20091125-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz) === seb128__ is now known as seb128 [09:52] Package 'mozilla-js', required by '/usr/lib/pkgconfig/gjs-1.0.pc', not found [10:00] geser, I need to check on those but look what we did in karmic [10:00] geser, we did preload the .so [10:00] geser, I though Debian fixed that different but apparently not [10:01] I will add those back [10:21] pitti, thanks for fixing piware.de ;-) [10:26] hyperair - g-p-m is in main btw (you've subscribed the wrong sponsors) ;) [10:31] speaking of which, does somebody plan to update that to 2.29? [10:32] seb128: heh [10:32] seb128: I'm grateful, too :) [10:32] ;-) [10:32] so versions.html should work again now [10:33] it does [10:34] seb128 - i'm working on the 2.29 update for g-p-m [10:35] but i've got to re-write the notify-osd patch, as the notification code has changed a lot [10:35] chrisccoulson, you rock as usual ;-) [10:35] oh :-( [10:35] seb128 - the notification code is common with g-s-d now, so i was thinking of making the notify-osd patch common between the 2 packages now [10:35] (if i can) [10:35] it should make maintenance a bit easier [10:35] that would be nice [10:39] kenvandine, didrocks: FYI, I didn't find a bzr for ubuntu-netbook-default-settings; can we just agree to use lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings ? (I'm committing there now) [10:40] brb reboot with fixed xorg [10:53] chrisccoulson: oh whoops. [10:53] chrisccoulson: sorry, it was a reflex action. [10:53] hyperair - no worries. i can unsubscribe u-u-s from the bug [10:53] sure [10:53] thanks [10:54] i'll take a look at your patch, and probably roll it in to the 2.29.x update and upload it all together [10:54] sure, thanks =) [10:54] if possible i'd like to get it SRU'd after that. [10:55] seems like a pretty annoying issue that impacts a significant number of people [10:57] yeah, the fix looks fairly trivial and it's a regression from jaunty too, so it would probably be a good candidate [10:57] (although, i cant make that decision anyway ;) ) [10:57] pitti: what a WI? [10:57] Riddell: http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-2.html#jr [10:58] chrisccoulson: okay, i'll just wait until you upload gpm then i'll start working on the sru bit =) [11:09] re [11:10] as usual, when you want to quickly reboot on a fixed system you get a fsck 15 minutes run [11:10] ... and no esc key right now.. [11:10] right [11:10] on the good side xorg is fixed after reinstall xorg-server-core [11:10] pitti: do I get told when they get assigned to me? [11:11] i can't remember the last time i saw a fsck on my box [11:11] Riddell: just on the WI overview, and of course on blueprint diffs [11:11] i assume they always happen when my girlfriend powers it on :) [11:11] lol [11:12] pitti: possible communication problem there [11:12] ;-) [11:13] on the mini fsck takes like 5 seconds [11:13] it's only 8G and it's ssd [11:13] Riddell: also, the previous WI tracker pages didn't have WIs for other teams, that made it harder [11:14] Riddell: apparently it doesn't cause kdm to break, so it's fine to move to a3 [11:14] Riddell: I guess it was just to start it earlier, for boot time optimization? [11:15] pitti: how do we know it doesn't cause kdm to break? [11:15] seb128 - if all my partitions are fsck'd in the same boot, it takes nearly 45 minutes ;) [11:16] urg [11:16] but that is around 800GB of rotary disk [11:17] Riddell: well, you would have complained weeks ago if kdm was broken in lucid, I suppose? [11:19] we'll have to see from the daily CDs (if they've built) [11:19] seb128: guess you have no idea how to run the testsuite of libplist? http://paste.ubuntu.com/355444/ [11:20] asac, no I don't [11:24] seb128, kenvandine: hi. I just released Empathy 2.29.5.1 you should package this one instead of 2.29.5 which doesn't include any translation [11:25] cassidy, ok thanks [11:30] cassidy, you forget to put a verb in the codename ;-) [11:38] seb128 - are you at the sprint this week as well? [11:39] chrisccoulson, not yet [11:39] chrisccoulson, but it's 2 hours of train for here so I will go there for 1 day or 2 [11:39] seb128 - that's quite convenient then :) [11:39] yes ;-) [11:40] seb128, http://encyclopediadramatica.com/I_accidentally_X :p [11:40] cassidy, ah, I was missing references ;-) [11:40] thanks! [11:42] * chrisccoulson is confused [12:11] pitti: Hola, gnome-pilot ships /usr/share/applications/gpilotd-control-applet.desktop which has no X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=gnome-pilot during build; that gets added afterwards by some pkg mangling magic; problem is that dh_md5sums records the md5 without the field [12:12] pitti: How do you think the core issue is best solved? By patching the gettext-domain in the .desktop file at build time? [12:13] * lool lunch -- bbl & [12:13] lool: that would work definitively, and should be the easiest way [12:37] hey Amaranth__ [12:40] so lucid boots 1.5 second slower compared to previous week [12:40] :-( [12:41] itz hal fault [12:41] it starts again [12:41] something triggers it [12:41] desktop didn't change much [12:41] that + plymouth === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:48] seb128: ISTR Keybuk said plymouth would cost a second or so [12:55] pitti, right, it does [13:33] cassidy, thx... will do [13:49] tseliot, nice to all your "done" items today on desktop-lucid-xorg-proprietary-drivers [13:49] chouette! [13:55] rickspencer3: :-) === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow === Kermiac is now known as Kermiac-sleep [14:05] rickspencer3: I won't be able to attend the meeting today (I'll be at the dentist). Just FYI [14:05] tseliot, good luck [14:05] hope it's not too painful [14:05] :) [14:05] heh, thanks [14:26] tedg, hey [14:26] tedg, I've some questions for you [14:26] seb128: Morning! [14:27] tedg, do you have time for questions now? [14:27] tedg! [14:27] or do you want to deal with bug fixes first and talk later? [14:27] * kenvandine wants tarballs [14:27] :) [14:27] we don't need tarball, we can backport commits! [14:28] Heh, ask questions. I'll try to make kenvandine's tarballs while we talk :) [14:28] tedg, ok, first is the fallback, how will it work? [14:28] you will have the same menu on a gtkstatusicon? [14:29] for something like nautilus, which has an icon right should we turn the appindicator use as a runtime thing or a buildtime one? [14:29] seb128: Yeah, it'll make a GtkStatusIcon with the same menu. [14:29] like if build with appindicator it will use it and fallback to the appindicator fallback way [14:29] seb128: It'll be runtime. [14:29] I think to get patches upstream we'll need build time checks. [14:29] your fallback will be [14:29] but it will be poor compared to upstream's way [14:29] But, I'm not as concerned about build time checks :) [14:30] ok, I've a nautilus patch with build time change [14:30] Sure, if they want to do something special, we'll support that too. [14:30] right now since you have no fallback it's indicator or nothing at runtime [14:30] The idea is they can replace the fallback function with whatever they want. [14:30] ok, so 2 smalls questions [14:31] Yes. But I expect to land fallback this week (not in A2 but when the archive opens again) [14:31] - would you make the nautilus copy icon, which is a toggle right now, a toggle or a show entry? [14:31] ie the menu having show only and user can close the dialog to mask it [14:31] or should the menu use a toggle with a checkbox or something? [14:33] Personally I prefer the "show" method. [14:33] ok, it's also easier to do [14:33] good [14:33] I think that the "X" in the corner of the window is more universal for "hide" ;) [14:33] well both work in the toggle case [14:33] next question [14:34] do you have tooltips in some way? [14:34] like the current icon indicate how much has been copied and how much remains [14:34] that's for nautilus [14:34] No, we don't. [14:34] should that info be dropped? [14:34] or made a menu label [14:34] or...? [14:34] I'm not sure on that one. mpt do you have an opinion here? ^ [14:36] tedg, ok thanks, I will do a first drop without it and we can improve later if needed [14:36] tedg, is this a notification area item you're talking about? If so, which one? [14:36] mpt, the nautilus copy icon [14:36] copy icon? [14:36] mpt, right now the icon show copy details in a tooltip [14:37] try doing a copy which takes some time in nautilus [14:37] it will display a nautilus area icon which you can click on or mouseover to get details on how much is done and to do still there [14:37] "There is not enough space on the destination. Try to remove files to make space." [14:37] poop [14:39] ah, I get a notification area element when emptying the Trash too [14:39] but it has no tooltip [14:40] mpt, the tooltip says something around the line "18000 items copied, 7500 to copy still" [14:40] ah, "1 file operation active" [14:41] hum, you are right [14:41] I was looking at the wrong lines [14:41] Oh, I see, the notification area item exists so you can get back the progress window if you close it [14:41] I have a much more elegant solution to that [14:42] Make the progress window minimizable but not closable [14:42] mpt, I would not call that elegant [14:42] mpt, is the way to keep stuff you don't care about cluttering your alt-tab and tasks [14:42] is -> it's [14:43] That way, (a) you eliminate any confusion about whether the close button cancels the task, and (b) you don't need the notification area item [14:43] again a small win for beginners traded for annoyances for all other users... [14:43] Minimized windows already get sent to the back of the Alt Tab list [14:44] I guess this kind of problem will be solved by the new Shell's message bar, in the future [14:44] well, wherever you put them it still means you have an extra item to cycle [14:44] and it's still tasklist noise [14:47] I don't think it's a good solution to task list noise to move something from the task list to the notification area [14:48] Especially when most of the stuff in the notification area doesn't behave that way, while everything in the task list does [14:49] There are other ways we could reduce clutter in the task list, e.g. giving minimized windows less space than non-minimized ones. [14:50] it will still not be as good as what we have now, which is out of the user way [14:50] it might not be good from a design perspective but it's handy for users [14:51] it's a bit of a shame that better design mean less practical for users [14:53] mpt: But we don't have a better alt-tab system today. So we need to design for Lucid, which has the same ol' stuff. [14:54] seb128, that's coming perilously close to a false dichotomy :-) [14:54] mpt, I'm just saying that I would hate having that in the alt-tab list [14:55] it would only the risk that I go one item too far and cancel the hours of copy by error [14:55] +add [14:55] I just want to copy to sit in a corner and goes on [14:55] oh, I see what you mean! [14:55] I don't want it to be in my way and one click away for stopping the action by error [14:55] The Cancel button is focused by default in the window [14:55] That is quite silly. [14:55] there is no other button there [14:55] what else would you want to focus? [14:56] kenvandine, whenever I try to use U1 on my lucid netbook I get a weird error condition [14:56] or you want a confirmation dialog? [14:56] seb128, nothing. Have the Cancel button respond to Esc but not to Space or Enter. [14:56] well you could still esc with the wrong dialog focussed [14:56] not that is not a strong argument [14:56] but it adds risk of error to annoyance [14:57] I really don't want it on screen ;-) [14:57] anyway we have clearly different view on the topic [14:57] rickspencer3, ? [14:57] going back to what I was doing [14:57] I think the number of people in the world who close Nautilus's move/copy window to make it less likely that they will cancel a move/copy after Alt Tabbing could be counted on two hands [14:57] kenvandine, I get a cloud with /!\ [14:57] but, I see your point [14:57] and when I click on it it runs apport [14:58] that means it isn't connected [14:58] rickspencer3, can we debug in a little bit? [14:58] sho [14:58] * kenvandine is trying to fix something :) === robbiew_ is now known as robbiew [14:59] mpt, right, the error point is lame, the alt-tab and tasklist clutter is not ;-) [14:59] speaking about design I upgraded a friend's box this weekend [14:59] one of the first thing he told me by im a bit later is "the notification bubble placement is buggy" [15:00] Not surprised :-) [15:00] where do we stand for those in lucid? [15:00] we're trying three different placements [15:00] when will see those in distro? [15:00] would be nice to have something to get user feedback on early ;-) [15:01] *sigh* === halflin__ is now known as halfline [15:06] rickspencer3: hi... in case you've missed it ... i'v submitted a svg 48px icon to fix Bug 489795 [15:06] Launchpad bug 489795 in bughugger "[wishlist] Bug huggers icon scales terribly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489795 [15:10] vish nice [15:10] hold on [15:19] seb128 / mpt - is the nautilus progress dialog really necessary? or could the progress be shown in the drop-down menu attached to the indicator instead? [15:20] chrisccoulson: it's not really practical if you have several copies going and want a way to stop one [15:21] yeah, thats true [15:21] seb128, I don't know when we'll see them, that's up to dbarth and MacSlow. See for details. [15:22] mpt, thanks [15:22] chrisccoulson, I think the reverse -- use just the window, and get rid of the menu [15:23] mpt - but that will leave my task list cluttered [15:25] hmm.. [15:26] * vish just got a restart notification after kernel update... thought we got rid of those :( [15:26] vish - the restart dialog? [15:26] you should still get those AFAIK... [15:27] yeah , the restart dialogue.... [15:27] chrisccoulson, yes, but the status menu area (like the notification area before it) is not a secondary task list. [15:27] chrisccoulson: but this is the first time i'm getting it on lucid... pitti said it was gone [15:27] vish, we got rid of the notification area item, not the alerts. When we get time, we'll embed the alert into the updates window. [15:28] mpt - can't the status menu area indicate the status of file transfers? [15:29] i would argue that the status of a file transfer is not a task [15:29] mpt: hmm.. weird.. in Lucid , this is the first time i'm getting it.. well i was happy it was gone ;) damn it :( [15:29] ;) [15:32] chrisccoulson, it could, but the progress window can do that better (even when it's minimized). The use of progress windows doesn't really depend on what anyone's definition of a "task" is -- it's for anything that's taking a long time. [15:33] chrisccoulson, in I've written "You do not need a custom status menu if: * You just want the program to take up a small space in the panel when minimized." If we made an exception for Nautilus, I don't know on what grounds we would make it, i.e. what we would say when app developers said "If Nautilus then why not my application too." [15:34] mpt - thanks, i'll have a read of that [16:06] seb128: do you know if jockey with app indicator is working yet in lucid? (Last I checked the Qt frontend broke or something?) [16:06] jcastro, kde still broken afaik [16:06] so jockey can't build [16:07] seb128: I am assuming that would be fixed for a2? [16:08] jcastro, don't ask me about kde [16:08] ask Riddell [16:08] wait, does the jockey kde frontend not build or the whole thing? [16:08] jcastro, both [16:09] jcastro, those are not separated sources [16:09] no kde build = no build [16:09] right [16:09] Jockey not working would be important for a2 though right? [16:12] also no OOo for a2 so alt disk will be oversized :( [16:13] ccheney, you mean no *new* OOo for a2, right? [16:14] jcastro, not working I guess, not using the new indicator not so [16:14] seb128, jockey will work, correct? just won't have the new indicator UI? [16:14] yea no new non-oversized OOo for a2 [16:14] rickspencer3, afaik yes [16:15] the one i uploaded last week can't build due to the kde breakage [16:15] did the new indicator ui break the kde bits or was that something else? [16:15] ccheney, so there will be some OOo, right, just not the latest one you uploaded? [16:15] rickspencer3: yea the previous one is still there, shouldn't be any problems since it couldn't build on any arch [16:16] so no problem with any vs all being built [16:16] jcastro, I think it's something in the kde stack [16:16] k [16:16] jcastro, go ahead and ask Riddell [16:16]