chrisccoulsonslangasek - i've uploaded gnome-screensaver to karmic-proposed now00:12
silas428is floodbot an actual bot?00:16
geniisilas428: Yes00:19
silas428genil: k, thought I was getting flooded out of #ubuntu for a second00:19
geniiWell, no physical incarnation00:19
silas428is #ubuntu down or something?00:20
ari-tczew[01:20] [Uwaga] -ChanServ- [#ubuntu] Welcome to #ubuntu! Please read the channel topic and consider spending some time on the FAQ mentioned there - This channel is officially logged at00:20
silas428I get an error message saying something is wrong with my router00:20
silas428Every other chat room works just fine00:20
Picisilas428: Then you should read the topic of the channel you were forwarded to00:20
Picisilas428: If you have any further questions you can ask in #ubuntu-ops00:21
silas428Pici: I did, I just didn't bother updating yet00:21
ScottKchrisccoulson: In the event of an SRU related regression, the Tech Board is to be notified.  If you didn't, I recommend writing them with the details of the issue and the resolution.01:44
chrisccoulsonScottK - thanks, I'll do that01:44
eboyjrI'm thinking about cleaning up jockey-gtk a little bit.. Where should I start?02:10
ScottKeboyjr: Probably by talking to pitti.02:15
=== jono_ is now known as jono
Plagman_why is libGLU.so in /usr/lib/mesa now?02:34
Plagman_shouldn't there by a symlink from /usr/lib/libGLU.so to /usr/lib/mesa/libGLU.so.1 if you're going to do that?02:34
ScottKPlagman_: It should be OK in the most recent upload.  If you want to discuss it, #ubuntu-x is probably the best place.02:51
Plagman_ScottK : alright, thanks03:03
Plagman_I'll be sure to check the most recent packages03:03
=== dous_ is now known as dous
KurlonEvening all.03:38
KurlonIs the nvidia driver conflict with xorg-server resolved at this point in the lucid repositories, or is it still glitching?03:40
ScottKKurlon: #ubuntu-x is a better channel to ask.03:41
KurlonAh, ok, figured given I was mucking with an alpha #dev would be the safer start.  I'll ping in there instead, danke!03:42
=== stalcup is now known as vorian
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
jelmerScottK, hi05:18
ScottKHello jelmer05:18
jelmerScottK: So, I'm trying to get bzr-svn to understand the KDE svn repository a bit better. Is there a description of the structure of the repository somewhere?05:18
ScottKjelmer: Not particularly, but with the exception of the kdebase split, it follows the Debian packages pretty closely.05:19
ScottKThe getting started page I linked to explained it a little bit.05:19
ScottKThe other thing you need to know is that there are roughly four catagories of software there:05:20
ScottK1.  KDE core05:20
ScottK2. KDE support (stuff needed to build KDE core, but not KDE specific (akonadi is an example))05:21
ScottK2.  Extragear - Applications that aren't part of KDE core, but have a certain quality, stability, etc.  May or may not follow the KDE release schedule05:21
ScottK4.  Playground - could be anythings.05:22
ScottK2/3 on extragear05:22
jelmerScottK: I'm basically trying to come up with patterns for things that should be considered branches in bzr05:22
ScottKFor KDE core it's pretty easy05:22
ScottKEverything in the branches directory is a branch off of trunk05:23
=== \vish is now known as vish
=== asac_ is now known as asac
dholbachgood morning06:33
hyperairhow does one get bug triaging powers?06:34
hyperairlike the power to set the bug status to triaged06:35
macohyperair: join bug control06:36
hyperairah okay06:36
hyperairThat you promise to be polite to bug reporters, even if they don't deserve it, by signing the Ubuntu Code of Conduct.06:36
hyperair..oh hey i've violated that already06:37
hyperairmore than once.06:37
* hyperair repents06:37
=== abms1116 is now known as abms1116|away
ttxpitti: bonjour07:58
ttxpitti: about the new work item reports -- how do you determine someone is in a given team ?07:59
ttxpitti: soren is currently on loan in the QA team, and his work items clutter our alpha2 report :P07:59
pitti_ttx: it reads the members from LP08:00
pitti_ttx: hang on, rickspencer3 doing his opening speech08:00
ttxHe is doing it in French, I hope.08:00
ttxmvo: hey, about bug 494499, do you plan to release it for alpha2 ?08:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 494499 in update-manager "MOTD shows "run-parts: /etc/update-motd.d/91-release-upgrade exited with return code 1"" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49449908:13
mvottx: yes, I upload today, sorry for the delay08:13
ttxmvo: no pb, just making sure it will land, since it's still in the current dailies :)08:14
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
ttxpitti, cjwatson, slangasek: same issue as yesterday, please trigger a server CD respin, newest eucalyptus landed too late08:30
ttxslangasek: we now have on servers (hardware permitting) a graphical KSM-flicker-free Ubuntu logo. However it's not replaced by a login prompt at the end. The logo stays there until you swap VTs. I'd say that's a bug, but what should I file it against ?08:31
slangasekttx: as a starting point, 'plymouth'08:32
slangasekserver respin triggered08:32
ttxslangasek: thx08:32
ttxslangasek: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/50629708:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 506297 in plymouth "Graphical Ubuntu logo enabled on servers, no more login prompt" [Undecided,New]08:38
ttxslangasek: I milestoned it to alpha2, I think we should at least try to fix it.08:40
slangasekttx: nack; this behavior change was prompted by serious incompatibilities with plymouth's VT handling prior to this point, and Keybuk has limited availability this week - I'm afraid this is errata territory08:42
ttxslangasek: ok, alpha3 it is, then ;)08:43
slangasekyep - sorry :)08:43
ttxslangasek: anything I should do to make it appear on the errata ?08:44
slangasekttx: add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/TechnicalOverview directly? :)08:44
ttxslangasek: right :)08:44
seb128so today's upgrades are a fail in lucid there09:04
seb128the mini10 displays what seems to be plymonth and then no screen09:04
seb128no way to vt switch and I don't manage to open the grub2 menu09:04
seb128and my laptop has no x cursor displayed09:04
seb128it works since I can click on things but I don't see it09:04
seb128and compiz is broken09:04
seb128did plymouth broke xorg or something?09:05
seb128where is Keybuk? ;-)09:05
slangasek"don't manage to open the grub2 menu"?09:05
slangasekholding down shift?09:05
seb128oh, shift09:05
seb128I tried esc and tab09:05
seb128what was wrong with the good old esc? ;-)09:06
seb128hum, booting without splash doesn't fix the issue09:07
seb128did the x guy broke the intel driver or something?09:07
slangasekthere've been mesa changes in the past couple of days09:08
slangasekthe X driver itself hasn't been touched, and isn't that the kernel's job now anyway? :)09:08
seb128it's weird that I don't get vts either09:08
seb128can I turn kms off from grub?09:09
slangasekyes, i915.modeset=009:10
* alkisg is also interested in this, as he has an intel based thin client which broke with today's updates...09:10
seb128Xorg.0.log says that "glx doesn't exist"09:10
seb128tjaalton, bryyce: ^09:10
slangasekseb128: ls -l /etc/alternatives/gl_conf?09:11
slangasek(this is the mesa stuff I mentioned)09:11
seb128$ ls -l /etc/alternatives/gl_conf09:11
seb128lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2010-01-12 02:46 /etc/alternatives/gl_conf -> /usr/lib/mesa/ld.so.conf09:11
slangasekand that file is present?09:11
seb128yes and contains "/usr/lib/mesa"09:11
alkisgslangasek: thanks, i915.modeset=0 did the trick for me.09:12
slangasekseb128: ldconfig -p | grep libGL?09:12
MacSlowbryyce, still/already up?09:12
slangasekalkisg: sure thing09:12
seb128trying to turn kms off on the mini now09:12
seb128$ ldconfig -p | grep libGL09:12
seb128libGLU.so.1 (libc6) => /usr/lib/mesa/libGLU.so.109:12
MacSlowhm... guess I join the right conversation here09:12
bryyceMacSlow, are you pinging me?09:12
seb128anything special you want there?09:12
seb128bryyce, I did09:13
MacSlowbryyce, just see all folks here are talking about the GLX-issue09:13
seb128bryyce, the mini10 doesn't boot since this night update09:13
seb128blank screen09:13
seb128and glx is broken on my laptop09:13
seb128cf running discussion09:13
seb128all intel cards09:13
seb128i965 on the laptop09:13
MacSlowseb128, here too... what I see/know... apps using dlopen("libGL") work (e.g. chromium with WebGL enabled, doom3) but apps using normal GLX (glxinfo, glxgears, compiz) don't09:14
MacSlowseb128, on nvidia-glx-195 here09:14
bryyceMacSlow, it is the mesa alternatives system rework probably09:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 258038 in xorg-server "Look into feasibility of using an alternatives system rather than diversions" [Wishlist,In progress]09:14
seb128good timing with alpha2 freeze today ;-)09:15
seb128bryyce, what would be useful in a bug report?09:15
seb128I'm not sure what info to provide there...09:15
slangasekbryyce: what's supposed to provide the actual GLX /extension/ for X?09:15
slangasekis that built into the core server?09:16
bryyceslangasek, for open source drivers, mesa provides it; for closed source it is the closed source drivers providing it09:16
slangasekbryyce: yah, mesa isn't providing it now09:16
slangaseker, no09:16
slangasek$ dpkg -S /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so09:16
slangasekxserver-xorg-core: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so09:16
slangasek$ ls -l /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so09:16
slangasekls: cannot access /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so: No such file or directory09:16
slangasekso something deleted my libglx.so \o/09:16
bryycethat's weird09:18
slangasekby "something" I'm pretty sure I mean "mesa"09:18
superm1MacSlow, if you are using a binary package nvidia-glx-195, that means that it wasn't one of the packages that was enabled for that alternatives system yet09:19
superm1MacSlow, you should switch to nvidia-current (which is complete in the archive currently)09:19
MacSlowslangasek, fyi I'm you example-case for someone using nvidia-glx-195 and being affected by this09:19
seb128superm1, and for those who use intel?09:19
bryycexserver-xorg-core.postinst.in:    --slave /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so libglx.so /usr/lib/standard-x11/libglx.so \09:19
slangasekMacSlow: ah, ack09:19
seb128bryyce, the actual file has been deleted, did it move between binaries recently?09:20
MacSlowsuperm1, oh nvidia-current... didn't know about that new package-name09:20
seb128bryyce, hum or not09:20
superm1MacSlow, the official packages should have transitioned you over, but -195 was never in the archive (and neither was -190)09:20
superm1seb128, for -intel, things should be working ;)09:21
seb128bryyce, that code is not in the postinst09:21
seb128$ grep glx /var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg-core.postinst09:21
slangasekseb128: version?09:21
seb128ii  xserver-xorg-core                     2:                       Xorg X server - core server09:21
slangasekbryyce: are you around to follow that up, or do we need tjaalton ?09:22
seb128did somebody forget to update the postinst from the .in?09:22
slangasekseb128: well, /usr/lib/standard-x11/libglx.so also doesn't exist here09:23
seb128xorg-server (2: lucid; urgency=low09:23
bryyceslangasek, following up with tseliot would be best09:23
seb128"- Do not install an alternative any more. Mesa will deal with this.09:23
seb128bryyce, slangasek: ^09:23
bryyceseb128, what I pasted was from prior to this latest change09:23
bryyceyeah probably follow up with tseliot when he wakes09:24
superm1slangasek, could you see why the mythbuntu live disk job didn't run yesterday? I don't even see a log at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/mythbuntu/lucid/09:24
seb128tseliot, !!!09:25
seb128hey ;-)09:25
slangasektseliot: which package is supposed to be shipping extensions/libglx.so in the new world order?  Because it isn't09:25
tseliotslangasek: xserver-xorg-core09:26
slangaseksuperm1: the CD build job won't run if the livefs build failed; have you looked there?09:26
tseliotwhat happened?09:26
seb128tseliot, it doesn't09:26
seb128tseliot, libglx.so vanished09:26
tseliotlet me check09:26
seb128tseliot, in yesterday's updates09:26
superm1slangasek, ah that's what's up.  i didn't realize that behavior changed. thanks :)09:27
slangaseksuperm1: ah yes, last cycle :)09:27
* seb128 hates grub209:29
seb128you would think it takes less that 15 tries to get the menu to open on boot09:30
mr_pouitsuperm1: I think I saw some testers write that hal wasn't started automatically in our iso for lucid, so xfce4-session, thunar & xfce4-power-manager were somewhat useless/broken. Did you have a chance to test?09:30
slangasekseb128: holding the shift key down?09:30
slangasekseb128: (more effective than trying to hit it at the right moment; part of why we the shift key was chosen)09:31
superm1mr_pouit, i've been poking at little installer snippets of troubles, so not yet any hal integration tests09:31
seb128slangasek, I will try on next boot, I was hitting shit a zillion time there09:31
superm1mr_pouit, you might run into a problem that xubuntu-default-settings needs to be reconfigured before you boot for the first time09:31
superm1mr_pouit, perhaps a ubiquity post install hook needs to be added09:32
seb128bryyce, tseliot: yesterday's update made the mini10v boot with screen off too09:32
seb128bryyce, tseliot: it works when turning off kms09:32
seb128bryyce, tseliot: which component would be right to bug?09:32
tseliotseb128: is it plain ubuntu or the netbook remix?09:33
tseliotslangasek: the extensions are definitely there. Can I see an X log, please?09:35
tseliotI think it's because X looks for them in a different directory first09:36
slangasektseliot: no, the file is physically *not there* on our systems09:36
slangasekI don't have an X log for this, I haven't restarted X yet09:36
slangasektseliot: so something deleted it on upgrade09:36
seb128__bryyce, tseliot: did you get my mini question?09:36
seb128__today's update make that on have screen off on boot09:36
seb128__it works without kms though09:36
tseliotseb128__: is it plain ubuntu or the netbook remix?09:36
seb128__lucid stock09:37
slangasektseliot: it's still registered with dpkg (dpkg -S knows what package owns it), but something removed it09:37
seb128__I use it as a bootchart box09:37
tseliotslangasek: I extracted the package and the files are there.09:37
seb128__is there an another package Replacing it?09:37
tseliotno, I don't think so09:37
seb128__could be a replaces, update race09:37
tseliotlet me check on my testing box09:37
seb128__tseliot, which component is the right one to bug for the mini bug?09:38
seb128__tseliot, it's not linux, boot an old version doesn't work09:38
seb128__and booting without splash doesn't work09:38
seb128__turning off kms does work though09:38
=== pitti changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Lucid Alpha 1 released | Archive: open | MoM no longer running, use bzr! - Outstanding merges:http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-karmic | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
pitti(removed the locale-gen stuff)09:39
tseliotseb128__: what do you mean by "the screen is off"?09:39
seb128__tseliot, nothing is displayed09:39
tseliotjust to be clear09:39
seb128__no VT, no xorg09:39
seb128__I just see plymonth and then nothing09:40
slangasekoh, you do see plymouth?09:40
seb128__booting without splash I see nothing09:40
seb128__slangasek, yes09:40
seb128__if I remove the "splash" boot option I see nothing though09:40
=== persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Lucid Alpha 2 freeze | Archive: open | MoM no longer running, use bzr! - Outstanding merges:http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-karmic | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
seb128__no text, no xorg09:40
persia(mention alpha 2 freeze)09:41
slangasekseb128__: "no text" - have you checked your other VTs?09:41
slangasekpersia: ta09:41
seb128__slangasek, yes, as said09:41
seb128__<seb128__> no VT, no xorg09:41
seb128__slangasek, there are all blank09:41
tseliotseb128__: I think it's the same problem that slangasek reported09:47
looltseliot: Hey, got a warning during nvidia-common upgrade yesterday due to some quoting issue in the .config script; I don't know which way to fix it09:48
loolOh great timing09:48
bryycelool, I think that bug was fixed now09:48
slangasektseliot: seb128__ does have the same problem I mentioned, he was the one who brought it to my attention; but that doesn't explain lack of text consoles AFAICS09:48
looltseliot: On line 11 of /var/lib/dpkg/info/nvidia-common.config09:48
seb128__tseliot, the glx issue lead to have no compiz on my laptop09:49
looltseliot: It was indeed; thanks09:49
seb128__tseliot, but the mini get no screen content at all, either xorg or vt09:49
seb128__tseliot, and without kms it works...09:49
loolbryyce: Uh thank you too09:49
tseliotseb128__: I can reproduce it here with -ati09:50
seb128__tseliot, the boxes I'm using at all intel09:51
seb128__but good09:51
seb128__I will let you sort if it you have the issue locally ;-)09:51
tseliotI'll let you know when it's fixed09:51
=== seb128__ is now known as seb128
=== abms1116|away is now known as abms1116
tseliotseb128, slangasek: does reinstalling xserver-xorg-core solve the problem?09:55
slangasektseliot: I'm sure it will; but first I'm trying to see if I can reproduce the upgrade failure path09:55
slangasek(so I can understand what happened, which currently I don't)09:55
tseliotneither do I :-/09:56
slangasekthe old prerm should have triggered before unpack of the new package, so there shouldn't have been any weird interaction between update-alternatives and dpkg09:58
seb128slangasek, well they moved the alternative handling to a different binary now09:58
seb128could that create some races between alternative and xorg upgrade?09:59
slangasekseb128: I don't see any alternative handling at all for libglx.so on my system09:59
seb128like the alternative is registered first09:59
seb128then xorg is update09:59
slangasekunless it was in an earlier version of mesa and removed again?09:59
seb128and the binary get cleaned?09:59
tseliotthe alternatives were handled by X while they there are handled by mesa09:59
slangasektseliot: is there still an alternative for libglx.so?10:00
tseliotslangasek: no, there isn't.10:00
tseliotnow what happens is that X looks for extensions in /usr/lib/xorg/extra-modules first and then in /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/10:01
tseliotso that when /usr/lib/xorg/extra-modules (which is a link created by alternatives) points to, say, /usr/lib/nvidia-current10:01
tseliotthe modules in that directory will have a higher priority10:02
tseliotwhile the standard modules remain in their old directory10:02
tseliotif the link doesn't exist and/or the modules aren't in /usr/lib/xorg/extra-modules, it falls back to /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/10:03
tseliotthis, however, doesn't explain why those modules were removed in the first place :-/10:03
alkisgapt-get install --reinstall xserver-xorg-core fixed the problems for me.10:03
seb128pitti, could you run "grep libglx /var/lib/dpkg/info/*" since you didn't upgrade yet?10:08
tseliotslangasek: hopefully the apt, dpkg, etc. logs will give us some clues10:09
pitti/var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg-core.md5sums:465cb23fcebef8712baf1b9c70453d3b  usr/lib/standard-x11/libglx.so10:09
pitti/var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg-core.postinst:    --slave /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so libglx.so /usr/lib/standard-x11/libglx.so \10:09
pittiseb128: ^10:09
slangasekso far I know that I had xserver-xorg-core 2: installed when I last restarted X, upgraded to 2: directly, and the file is now gone; and that mesa and X were upgraded in the same run10:09
pittiI have 2:
slangasekand that an upgrade of just the X server from 1ubuntu1 to 1ubuntu4 doesn't reproduce the failure10:09
slangasekexamining my unpack order now10:09
seb128pitti, thanks, so maintainer script playing with that on upgrade...10:10
slangasekseb128: that's the postinst of the old version10:10
seb128slangasek, right, I was try to check if some prerm or something played with that10:10
slangasekthe relevant script there is actually the prerm of the old version, which doesn't pattern-match because it calls update-alternatives --remove with only the master name (gl_conf)10:10
seb128oh right10:11
seb128pitti, grep gl_conf /var/lib/dpkg/info/*10:11
seb128pitti, can you try that one too?10:11
tseliotlibglx.so and libdri.so were previously installed in /usr/lib/standard-x11/10:11
seb128/var/lib/dpkg/info/libgl1-mesa-glx.prerm:  update-alternatives --remove gl_conf /usr/lib/GL/ld.so.conf10:12
seb128slangasek, would that delete the file if called after the xorg unpack?10:12
tseliotseb128: does reinstalling xserver-xorg-core solve the problem for you?10:12
seb128tseliot, let met try on the mini, I want to keep my laptop in broken state to try the official solution10:12
slangasekseb128: I don't know yet - I think it /should/ not, because X's own prerm should have already removed it10:13
slangasek  if [ ! -f /usr/lib/standard-x11/standard.conf ]; then10:13
slangasek    update-alternatives --remove gl_conf /usr/lib/standard-x11/standard.conf10:13
slangasek  fi10:13
slangasekwell that check is going to fail, because it's in the *pre*rm, so the files is still there10:14
pitti/var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg-core.postinst:    --install /etc/ld.so.conf.d/GL.conf gl_conf /usr/lib/standard-x11/ld.so.conf 500 \10:14
pitti/var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg-core.prerm:    update-alternatives --remove gl_conf /usr/lib/standard-x11/standard.conf10:14
pittiseb128: ^10:14
seb128pitti, thanks10:14
slangasekso the xserver-xorg-core old prerm does *not* remove the alternative; instead it gets removed by something else, later10:14
slangasektseliot: this needs to be fixed by adding an update-alternatives --remove call to the xserver-xorg-core preinst10:15
tseliotslangasek: ouch, right10:15
tseliotok, I can do that10:15
slangasektseliot: thanks - how soon do you think you'll have it ready?  (I'd like to confirm the result before nodding off :)10:15
tseliotslangasek: minutes?10:16
pittiStevenK: just to be sure, you didn't rename lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/unr.lucid/ right? still the same seed10:16
slangasektseliot: cheers :)10:16
seb128tseliot, the xserver-xorg-core reinstall solves the issue yes10:17
pittiStevenK: nevermind me, found it10:17
seb128tseliot, the mini10 no screen issue too10:17
tseliotseb128: aah, the joys of KMS... :-P10:18
tseliotslangasek: do you want me to test a particular condition before passing that command?10:20
slangasektseliot: a version check on $210:20
slangasektseliot: if dpkg --check-versions "$2" lt-nl 2:; then10:20
slangaseksuperm1: what did you learn regarding mythbuntu livefs failures?10:21
tseliotdpkg: unknown option --check-versions10:22
persiaIs it "check-versions"?  I thought it was "compare-versions"10:22
tseliotyes, if that's what he meant10:22
tseliotto check10:22
tseliotI can do what I usually do with nvidia10:23
slangasekyeah, that's what I meant10:24
slangaseksorry, 2am fingers10:24
tseliotslangasek, persia: does dpkg --compare-versions get the version of a package if you pass it a name?10:34
tseliotshouldn't I pass it the version instead?10:34
slangasektseliot: the "$2" is a version10:34
slangasekdpkg --compare-versions knows nothing about packages, it just tells you how two specified version numbers compare10:35
* tseliot needs some glasses now ;)10:35
tseliotor more sleep10:35
persiatseliot: http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts10:35
tseliotpersia: ok, it was as I thought10:36
* slangasek notes the diagrams on that page didn't load for him today :(10:36
tseliotslangasek: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/355429/10:39
tseliotI'll take it as a yes ;)10:41
slangasektseliot: yes10:43
slangasek(I'm a little hesitant about the || true, but as a first iteration this is certaintly fine)10:43
tseliotI don't want things to break, but yes10:44
pittiStevenK: FYI, we'll use lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings and commit stuff there (didn't find an existing bzr for this)10:44
tseliotslangasek: uploaded10:44
slangasektseliot: thanks!10:45
=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying
tseliotoh, I forgot to give credit to you in the changelog10:45
slangasek<shrug> :)10:45
bryyceI see we have Recommends: intel-gpu-tools in xserver-xorg-video-intel, and a MIR was accepted for intel-gpu-tools, however:10:45
bryyce# apt-cache madison intel-gpu-tools10:45
bryyceintel-gpu-tools |    1.0.2-1 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com lucid/universe Packages10:45
slangasektseliot: my name is in enough changelogs already, don't sweat it ;)10:45
bryycewhy's intel-gpu-tools still in universe?10:45
slangasekbryyce: because http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt - allow me to fix :)10:46
bryycetseliot, slangasek's name is *everywhere*10:46
bryyceslangasek, awesome10:46
slangasekbryyce: btw, please don't close MIR bugs upon seeding, it makes it harder for the archive admin to find the bug to reference for promotion :)10:48
tseliotthen the next ubuntu flavour will be slangabuntu :-P10:48
bryyceslangasek, I don't remember closing the bug, but apologies if I did10:48
bryyceslangasek, btw what I'm working towards is enabling apport auto-capture of X freeze bugs for -intel10:49
bryycenext step is a packaging fix for -intel to install the apport script.  I can wait until post-a2 unless you think it would be valuable to have for the release.10:50
slangasekwell, I haven't seen an intel kernel freeze myself for quite a while10:50
slangasekso based on my own limited evidence I wouldn't think it's urgent for a2 - does the bug traffic say otherwise?10:51
bryycefair enough, sounds reasonable to leave this until post-a2.  I've not yet confirmed it works.10:51
bryyceslangasek, I've decided there exist a band of merry gnomes who simply re-file the same 20 bugs over and over again, with slightly changed wording each time.10:52
slangasek(now having the sigsegv handler working, OTOH, /that/ would be nice :)10:52
bryyceyeah, I put in a patch to fix that but seems I didn't get something right.  I need to look at that deeper.10:53
bryycethe signal code in X changed around quite a bit, and I never really grokked it all the first time10:53
tseliotpitti: can you rescore this please? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/2:
pittitseliot: done; amd64 too, or already building?11:03
pittioh, built already11:03
tseliotit's building already11:03
pittii386 is screwed11:03
pittiah, kdeutils is purging already11:04
pittiso, shouldn't take long then11:04
tseliotah, good11:04
tseliotpitti: BTW the new jockey won't be ready in time for alpha211:06
pittitseliot: due to the pykdeuic4 breakage?11:06
tseliotI didn't have the time to test it11:06
pittiah, for nvidia-common support11:06
tseliotthat too11:06
pitti-> release notes, then11:06
tseliotbut now nvidia-common is in11:06
* tseliot nods11:06
StevenKpitti: That sounds great11:07
cjwatsonRiddell,superm1: I have an action from the last TB meeting to ask that the ubuntu-core-dev team be added as a member of kubuntu-dev and mythbuntu-dev, to reflect the fact that they can upload to those packages anyway. Would you guys be OK with making that change?11:09
cjwatsonseb128: what was wrong with esc in grub> I was instructed to make grub not have a delay to wait for a keypress, and on the PC architecture the only keys whose state you can check instantaneously are the modifier keys11:10
tjaaltonseb128: the blank screen problem was likely due to vesa (=failsafe) not working on top of kms11:11
seb128cjwatson, yeah, sorry for the non constructive comment, the new way is not very discoverable and quite frustrating when you try to get the menu to open11:11
Riddellcjwatson: ubuntu-core-dev has been invited to join, I guess something else needs to happen to actually join11:12
seb128I tried hitting all the side keys quickly and did that for several times without luck11:12
cjwatsonseb128: I was told to make it undiscoverable, unfortunately :(11:13
cjwatsonseb128: or rather I was given instructions that left no possible way to make it discoverable ...11:13
seb128cjwatson, I'm not sure that those small boot speed wins are an user experience win, but shrug11:14
seb128I'm not the one deciding11:14
cjwatsonseb128: I agree, but ...11:14
seb128we have the same issue for desktop11:14
seb128we will likely need to drop some nice things to win a 1 second on boot11:14
seb128which in my opinion is not a win for user, I prefer to wait an extra second and have a system nicer to use11:15
tseliotcjwatson: pressing esc like crazy here doesn't seem to solve the problem i.e. I can't access the grub menu11:15
seb128tseliot, shift11:15
cjwatsontseliot: like I say, esc has no effect there11:15
seb128and you can keep it pressed11:16
tseliotoh, shift11:16
tseliotI missed that part then. I would have saved me a lot of swearing ;)11:16
bryycetseliot, ditto11:16
seb128welcome to the club ;-)11:16
bryyceyeah it seems like esc should be supported as well as shift11:16
cjwatsonRiddell: thanks, accepted11:16
cjwatsonbryyce: it's not possible, sorry11:17
bryycecjwatson, why?11:17
cjwatsonbryyce: 11:10 <cjwatson> seb128: what was wrong with esc in grub> I was instructed to make grub not have a delay to wait for a keypress, and on the PC architecture the only keys whose state you can check instantaneously are the modifier keys11:17
bryyceI see11:17
cjwatsonif you make the delay non-zero, then esc works11:17
cjwatsonI went through all this in the karmic cycle, this was about the best I could do, sorry11:18
bryycetoo bad we can't just make ESC into a modifier key ;-)11:18
cjwatsonpass the time machine11:18
seb128cjwatson, nobody is blaming you don't worry11:18
tseliotlet's just document it then11:19
tseliotseb128: +111:19
seb128I'm just blaming that boot speed crazyness11:19
seb128working on making sure we boot fast is a good idea11:19
bryyceseb128, yeah11:19
seb128but it should not be in detriment of the user experience11:19
bryycewe had to sacrifice wacom on the bootspeed altar11:20
tseliotbryyce: what???11:20
bryycewell, wacom-tools at least ;-)11:20
cjwatsonI think this is a symptom of a broader issue: "user experience" is always taken to mean utter novices11:20
tseliotbryyce: because of the halsectomy?11:20
bryycetseliot, yeah11:20
cjwatsonthere's no thought for the upward learning curve, escape hatches, etc.11:21
cjwatsonseb128: oh, one thing you might like to know: if the system fails to boot, then grub2 will always show the menu next time round11:21
seb128right, but user experience should not just be what a new user will see on first boot when everything is working on standard hardware11:21
bryycecjwatson, yep, and customer retention11:21
cjwatsonseb128: so if you can't remember, just let the system start booting and immediately reboot :)11:21
seb128cjwatson, it didn't work in this case for some reason11:21
cjwatsonseb128: odd11:22
seb128cjwatson, I did had to power off the box sitting on the power button to stop it11:22
pittibryyce: hm, wacom was a victim of the hal deprecation, not the boot speed, wasn't it?11:22
cjwatsonseb128: recent lucid?11:22
seb128and next boot didn't show the menu11:22
pittispeaking of that, hal is starting in recent lucid again, grr11:22
seb128cjwatson, yes, daily updated11:22
cjwatsonseb128: ok, could be a regression in my most recent grub2 upload then11:22
seb128cjwatson, it usually works though, but I expect that video crash leaded to a state where the failed boot was not recorded11:22
seb128or the mini was to desktop before the 5 seconds sitting on power11:23
tseliotpitti: resistance to hal is futile :-P11:23
seb128so it registered as a working boot11:23
bryycepitti, as was communicated to me, it was the bootspeed requirement which was the driver to eliminate hal11:23
seb128which is might have been, I just had no screen to see it11:23
seb128pitti, and it has a crasher11:23
seb128pitti, got an apport crash notification today and some users asked about that on -bugs too11:24
slangasekbryyce: halsectomy has been coming for a while; bootspeed made it happen before wacom had adapted11:24
bryyceslangasek, as I said :-)11:24
pittibryyce: I thought there was a newer wacom release which doesn't need hal any more?11:25
pittiat least that's what the xorg-halsectomy blueprint says11:25
tseliotbryyce: if I can implement support for tags with udev and xorg.conf.d in time, things should be easier to deal with11:25
cjwatsonseb128: it must be the latter - the way it works is that grub registers a failed boot, and that state is then cleared at the end of the boot sequence11:25
pittiseb128: "it" == ?11:25
cjwatsonhaving to actively register a failed boot in userspace would be too fragile11:25
seb128cjwatson, ok11:25
seb128pitti, hald-probe-input11:25
seb128double free apparently11:26
seb128I didn't investigate just had a look to the apport summary11:26
seb128the bug was not retraced yet11:26
bryycepitti, unless something changed in the last few days, the release is still "coming soon"11:27
pittiah, fun11:27
bryycepitti, but yeah likely we will get wacom working in time11:27
seb128pitti, bug #50626011:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 506260 in hal "hald-probe-input assert failure: *** glibc detected *** /usr/lib/hal/hald-probe-input: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x080492f9 ***" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50626011:28
tjaaltonbryyce: did you miss my email to ubuntu-x? ron released xf86-input-wacom11:28
tseliotslangasek: X was built 12 minutes ago, just FYI11:28
tjaaltonwith udev hotplug11:28
tseliotah, right11:28
seb128pitti, or bug #50072311:28
ubottuBug 500723 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/500723 is private11:28
bryycetjaalton, wasn't there also some issues @ debian to resolve first?11:29
tjaaltonbryyce: I don't know?11:30
ionYay, i’ve been waiting for wacom fixage in lucid. :-) Why *is* there a wacom driver, btw, shouldn’t it be merged into evdev? Evdev already gets the coordinate information from my touchscreen perfectly, it would just need to recognize the buttons, touch pressure (and angle for the pads that support it).11:31
tjaaltonhaven't quite understood Thomas' post yet11:31
bryycetjaalton, ok11:31
bryycetjaalton, so "coming soon" in Ubuntu at least ;-)11:31
tjaaltonion: evdev doesn't, and never will, support the fancy features11:31
seb128pitti, btw new cheese in lucid uploaded11:31
seb128pitti, it uses gudev11:31
pittiseb128: I saw, thanks!11:31
seb128pitti, dunno if you keep a list of those somewhere11:31
tjaaltonbryyce: yes, need to at least bump the epoch11:31
seb128pitti, you're welcome11:32
tjaaltonotherwise ok11:32
iontjaalton: I was under the impression evdev already contains axes for pressure, angle etc, it just doesn’t know how to read that information from a wacom device. I may be wrong.11:32
tjaaltonion: yeah, but stylus/eraser etc..11:33
slangasektseliot: great, thanks11:33
tseliotpitti: also, can you remove envyng* from the archive, please?11:34
pittiseb128: tried to fix the lucid chroot, but new dash is terminally broken with fakechroot, so nevermind for now11:35
pittiseb128: (apport retracers)11:35
pittitseliot: what should I put in as rationale? "superseded by jockey" or so?11:36
tseliotpitti: yes, that would be fine11:36
pittitseliot: done11:37
tseliotpitti: would it be possible to add transitional packages to jockey? (just to make sure that users don't keep envyng after dist-upgrades)11:37
tseliotenvyng-core was in universe though11:38
seb128tseliot, or use a conflicts, replaces, provides?11:38
tseliotseb128: whatever pitti prefers11:39
* tseliot has no strong opinions on this11:39
pittiI'm fine with adding a C/R/P11:39
tseliotok then11:39
pittitseliot: can you please commit?11:39
tseliotpitti: sure11:39
pittiwe can't build it anyway, so no need to upload it right now11:39
* pitti sighs at pykdeuic411:40
tseliotpitti, Riddell: wasn't that updated ^^11:40
tseliotpykdeuic4, that is11:40
tjaaltonpitti: there's a new -evdev available in unstable (uploaded ~10min ago). it'll work around the nasty problems with accelerometers, so syncing that for a2 is ok11:42
pittitjaalton: please coordinate with slangasek; I have little mental bandwidth here at the sprint11:43
tjaaltonpitti: ah, ok11:43
tjaaltonwill do11:43
slangasektjaalton: and I'm about to pass out; file a sync request and drop me a pointer to the bug # for me to consider when I'm awake?11:43
tjaaltonslangasek: ok, sounds good11:44
Riddelltseliot: kdebindings needs a new SIP which hasn't been released so I havn't been able to update it :(11:46
hungerIs there a reason for shipping /usr/lib/ld.so.conf or is that file just misplaced?11:46
slangasekttx: UEC images are called 'server' now on the uec-images download site?  Is this an intended and permanent change?11:53
tseliotRiddell: oh, a new SIP? :-/11:53
=== Mamarok_ is now known as Mamarok
slangasekttx: (if so, I think it's unfortunate name collision with the server ISOs; but we at least need to get the ISO tracker and the weather report updated to know this)11:55
Riddelltseliot: yeah, it's not ABI compatible and I don't want to take a snapshot incase the final release has any more ABI changes11:57
tseliotRiddell: ok, no problem. I know that rebuilding kde every time is not a trivial task ;)12:01
ttxslangasek: i'm not sure what triggered it -- if there is no good reason it should be reverted, if only to allow already-written test scripts to continue working12:13
ttxslangasek: we'll ask smoser if he knows12:13
ttxpitti: arh12:40
ttxpitti: I missed your recent changes when uploading apport 1.11-0ubuntu512:41
pittittx: np, it was just for setup-retracer; I only use that from the branch itself12:41
pittittx: please just move my changelog to ubuntu6 then12:41
ttxpitti: ok, will merge12:42
davmor2pitti: An issue I'm assuming due to plymouth has arisen in that there is no dialogue to press enter to continue shutdown once the install has completed12:43
pittidavmor2: the one in X? that shouldn't be related to plymouth12:44
pittiah, the "press enter" after shutdown12:44
ograpitti, the one that used to be in usplash12:44
pittidavmor2: can you please file a bug? (sorry, at sprint this week)12:44
pittishould be easy to fix, instead of usplash-send use the equivalent plymouth command12:45
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
pittiseb128: yay, I recreated the apport retracer environments in lucid, have working fakechroots now12:45
* seb128 hugs pitti12:45
seb128you rock dude12:45
davmor2pitti: no probs I think it is in process now.  Is my assumption about it being plymouth correct and will the dialogue show up on a different tty?12:45
pittiI'm not sure; I'm a plymouth n00b12:46
pittiseb128: I didn't try retracing something yet; still remember the busted gdb -> busted stack traces that we had in jaunty?12:46
seb128is that still an issue?12:47
seb128I think I downgraded gdb by then no?12:47
davmor2pitti: ta12:47
pittiseb128: right; I don't know if it's still an issue with latest gdb; I'll try12:47
ttxpitti: done, I didn't tag the release since it would be confusing ?12:48
pittiseb128: do you reckon we could shutdown the jaunty/karmic retracers for now?12:48
pittittx: you could tag the revision you uploaded12:48
pittittx: erm, nevermind12:49
seb128pitti, would be fine for me, nobody work actively on jaunty or karmic right now anyway and I doubt we get lot of new crashes there which are of interest12:49
pittiseb128: what I thought, but wanted to confirm12:52
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== deegee_1 is now known as deegee
persiacjwatson: Thank you, as always, for the spellcheck.  I'll try to be more careful :)13:06
zulpitti: have you seen boris comment on the MIR autofs5 bug?13:23
pittizul: yes, I saw it; seems fine13:25
zulpitti: so I should be able to go seed it correct?13:25
pittizul: right; just didn't have time to process it further (I'm on a sprint this week, and was travelling yesterday)13:25
zulpitti: ah ok ill go seed it now then13:26
zullool: ping13:34
loolzul: pong13:37
zullool: i updated the ctdb package but im not sure how to fix the readdir warning13:37
pittiseb128: at least it properly identified 505219 as a dupe, so it can't be too broken13:39
seb128pitti, good ;-)13:40
pittimeh, so is the next bug13:40
pittigive me a fresh one..13:40
pittiat least it catches up with the backlog13:40
loolzul: Looking13:41
loolzul: So if you build ctdb, you see it fails a configure test for readdir13:44
pittiseb128: ok, I think gdb still hates me13:44
loolzul: Opening config.log and searching for that you'll find the cause of the issue13:44
pittiseb128: (bug 506125 )13:44
loolconftest.c:182:43: error: ./lib/replace/test/os2_delete.c: No such file or directory13:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 506125 in nautilus-actions "nautilus-actions-config-tool assert failure: NA-nact:ERROR:nact-ibackground-tab.c:381:get_folders_treeview: assertion failed: (GTK_IS_TREE_VIEW( treeview ))" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50612513:44
pittiI'll try with the old gdb13:44
loolzul: ./lib/replace/test/os2_delete.c doesn't exist, but ./lib/replace/tests/os2_delete.c does13:44
seb128pitti, :-(13:44
seb128pitti, let me know how it goes13:44
zullool: ah ok..lemme have a look13:45
loolzul: This test is maintained in lib/replace/repdir.m413:45
loolzul: I fixed the macro, but can't easily rerun autoconf for various reasons (apparently they miss some files and some vars) so I fixed configure manually as well; this fixed the warning13:46
loolconfigure:8134: checking for broken readdir13:47
loolconfigure:8160: result: no13:47
loolzul: So just /os2_delete/s/test/tests/ in the lib/replace/repdir.m4 and configure13:47
loolNow it fails to build for me   :-(13:48
looldh_installdocs: You asked that all arch in(dep) packages be built, but there are none of that type.13:48
loolI built with -b13:48
zulok ill try it from here13:48
loolzul: Will read you in the MIR then; thanks13:49
zullool: thanks for the help13:49
didrockscjwatson: do you plan to do an ubiquity update before alpha2? I've something to fix with une and other derivatives using gdm for default session ppa:canonical-dx-team/release but there is an easy workaround, so it can wait14:00
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
cjwatsondidrocks: ev just uploaded one today14:04
cjwatsondidrocks: I don't know if there's more planned14:04
evdidrocks: patch?14:05
didrockscjwatson: ev: ok, it's just that the default session is not available on installed system. (only on the live image) as postinst aren't executed. So, will need to launch a command to update it if want une/xubuntu/mythubuntu as a default after reboot. Nothing important for alpha2 btw14:07
pittididrocks: could you add the workaround to the tech notes?14:11
zulpitti: one more thing for psycopg2 you need to confgiure a postgresql database in order to run the testsuite since it tries to login as root14:21
pittizul: as root? that's strange; why doesn't it just connect as your user?14:21
zulpitti: no idea14:22
zulpitti: anyways we are fixing it in alpha314:22
didrockspitti: done14:25
zullool: the latest upload fixes the readdir warnings for ctdb14:36
pittiseb128: retracers!14:37
seb128pitti, waouh!14:38
pittiseb128: I leave the jaunty/karmic ones disabled for now, no time to spend on that right now14:39
loolzul: Ouch, I see you added a patch to hide the gcc warnings, but that's actually worse than the warnings in the first place14:40
loolzul: The failures need to be handled; in the case of read/write, it might be interrupted IO and that need to be retried or it might be errors in which case that need to fail the higher order logic14:41
zullool: *sigh*14:41
loolzul: If you just hide the warning by adding a dummy var and ignoring it, it's *worse* because we don't even know that the error code is ignored14:41
zullool: ok because some of the comments in the code it doesnt matter if it overflows14:41
ScottKlamont: Looks like builds aren't being dispatched on at least sparc and ia64 for some reason.14:41
cjwatsonif it doesn't matter, arrange for the warning not to trigger in code, rather than by changing gcc options14:42
loolzul: Ok; if that's the case, you can add a dummy var /with a comment/ explaining that it's fine to ignore it14:42
cjwatson(maybe I'm misunderstanding)14:42
zullool: ok ill go back at it then14:42
loolcjwatson: The change is a patch which saves the return code of the failing calls, but doesn't use the value14:42
loolcjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/355533/14:43
loolzul: IOW what we want is safer software, not less warnings  ;-)14:43
loolzul: Thanks for looking into it14:43
zullool: np14:43
smoserslacker_nl, ping14:44
ttxsmoser: fail14:44
cjwatsonI prefer 'if (read(...) < 0) { /* comment explaining why we're ignoring it */ }'14:44
smoserslangasek, ping14:44
smosersorry slacker_nl14:44
slacker_nlsmoser: :)14:44
ScottKlamont: Actually flow is OK.  It's just hooker14:44
smoserregarding <suite>-uec-<arch>  to <suite>-server-<arch>.tar.gz , the change was intentional, do deal with the fact that we now have 'desktop' image also.14:46
smoseri can absolutely change that to <suite>-<build_name>-uec-<arch> though14:46
=== robbiew_ is now known as robbiew
cjwatsonpitti: TB meeting?15:01
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
pittiargh, tseliot, help: since the last dist-upgrade I get an error "Failed to submit batchbuffer: Input/output error" and X is black15:24
pittitseliot: could that be related to recent X.org changes?15:24
pitticjwatson: finally managed to get online over CLI; sorry for delay15:25
tseliotpitti: does reinstalling xserver-xorg-core help?15:25
pittitseliot: reinstalled, I'll try now15:27
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
pittitseliot: should that change any files or so? anything I could test before starting X again? (that will mean a reboot and maually getting on the wifi again)15:28
pittitseliot: it happened to didrocks as well15:28
tseliotpitti: you should have libglx.so and libdri.so in /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions15:28
tseliotif they are there, then it's ok15:29
pittitseliot: I do15:29
pittitseliot: ok, trying15:29
cjwatsonpitti: thanks15:30
pittitseliot: that worked15:32
pittitseliot: thanks!15:32
tseliotpitti: good. BTW it's fixed in ubuntu515:33
pittitseliot: I had that before, too15:33
* tseliot -> dentist15:33
tseliotyou might want to tell slangasek about that15:33
pittitseliot: dentist> good luck15:33
pittidoes anyone remember how to force the version of a single binary package? IIRC it was some trick to pass a version as an argument to dpkg-deb or so16:14
davmor2Guys on today's iso once installed with eng-uk locale evolution is removed16:16
seb128pitti, sudo apt-get install binary=version16:17
pittiseb128: no, I mean during source package build16:17
seb128I don't know16:17
pittiah, dpkg-gencontrol -v16:20
lamontScottK: yeah - sometimes it doesn't like it when I upgrade the buildd... sigh16:26
=== beuno is now known as beuno-lunch
cr3pitti: hi there, if you have a moment, I have a quick dbus problem which I suspect you might've seen already16:40
pitticr3: (on sprint, and in a meeting); perhaps /msg me, and I'll answer later?16:41
cr3pitti: this is by no means urgent, so I'll send an email and feel free to answer at your convenience. thanks!16:41
zullool: it should be ok now16:51
ionIf i have ‘LP: #NNNN’ in debian/changelog for something that’s going to be uploaded, and the bug in question has been marked a duplicate of another bug #MMMM, will the upload mark #MMMM as fixed?17:09
ccheneywow the kernel really slowed down recently17:09
ccheneytakes twice as long in the recent bootcharts17:10
=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
smoserjames_w, does something need to be kicked such that lp:ubuntu/ec2-init get updated? its been a dozen hours at least since the last upload17:43
pittididrocks: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/gm-dev-launchpad/ppa/ubuntu karmic main17:54
=== beuno-lunch is now known as beuno
tweaktIs there an all in one tool which combines apt-move and apt-ftparchive?18:00
tweaktI'm trying to string together germinate, apt-get (download packages) and apt-move/apt-ftparchive to produce a mirror from a set of dependencies (seeds)18:01
sladentweakt: perhaps germinator -> apt-mirror18:03
tweaktahh, right. I will check it out.18:07
tweaktsladen: it looks like it can only produce a full or partial mirror, not accept a specific list of packages (and versions). Where I'm at now, I've already got a directory full of .debs that are needed. I just need to poolify them and generate the Packages files.18:12
sladentweakt: the directory structure of the pool doesn't matter;  you could even have them in the same directory as the Packages files18:14
tweaktsladen: even for CD install?18:15
tweaktoh, yeah... good point.18:15
tweaktjust put them all in /pool ?18:16
superm1cjohnston, okay i've invited ubuntu-core-dev18:16
superm1slangasek, things are sorted out now, it was because some stuff hadn't exited NEW yet18:17
cjwatsonsuperm1: thanks18:18
=== spysam is now known as sasp
james_wsmoser: it does, yes. I'm going to try and get to it before the sprint starts this morning18:32
smoserok. thanks.18:32
kirklandis anyone else having trouble running today's lucid-desktop-amd64.iso in a kvm?18:41
kirklandseems to be hanging the vm hard18:41
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
highvoltagemdz: have most people now at least casted their votes for the developer board?19:33
ionhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ion/ubuntu/lucid/mountall/lucid/revision/259#debian/changelog :-P19:34
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
alkisgchrisccoulson, hi, could I do something more to help in getting the patch for ltsp clients reboot/shutdown accepted? (LP #491940)20:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 491940 in gnome-session "Patch for LTSP clients to properly reboot/shutdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49194020:30
alkisgI tested again the patch today, it works fine.20:31
humphreybcHi all - I'm Benjamin Humphrey, head of the Ubuntu Manual project and I've got some questions about the Software Center in Lucid.20:32
cjwatsonhumphreybc: you probably want to wait until European working hours, for either mpt or mvo or both to be around.20:32
humphreybcHmm.. I've only really got one question regarding the roadmap for Lucid - whether Software Center is planning to completely replace Synaptic20:33
humphreybcThe wiki says "For Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, we plan to: Make the Ubuntu Software Center a viable alternative to Synaptic — presenting non-application packages in an understandable way, and allowing the same fine-grained package control and handling of error cases."20:33
humphreybcWhether "viable" means that Synaptic will be removed from the CD or not, I'm not 100% sure.20:33
cemchi. could you take a look at this please? bug #96850 (last comment)20:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 96850 in rrdtool "[apport] perl crashed with SIGSEGV in rrd_test_error()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9685020:36
humphreybcDoes anyone know either mpt or mvo's email address?20:37
cjwatsonhumphreybc: should be on the appropriate people pages on Launchapd20:37
beunohumphreybc, https://edge.launchpad.net/~mpt and https://edge.launchpad.net/~mvo20:38
humphreybcthanks guys20:38
humphreybcHey he's a kiwi...? .net.nz20:38
beunohumphreybc, yes, but living in the uk20:39
humphreybcOh neat20:39
cjwatsone-mail addresses aren't necessarily strongly correlated with where people live. :-)20:39
humphreybc(I'm a kiwi too)20:39
humphreybcheh, well, not many people use a .nz address for no reason :)20:39
ari-tczewI'm looking for sponsor for main ...21:27
Laneythere is a queue for that21:27
slangaseksmoser: I think server-uec would be preferable.  And in general, please don't change image names without coordination, this information is tracked on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseManifest and used in a number of places21:31
smosersorry for trouble21:32
smoserso you'd prefer just {server|desktop}-uec ?21:32
smoseror lucid-{server|desktop}-uec21:32
slangasekalways lucid-*21:33
smoserok. i'll make that change.21:34
komputesIs anyone available to compare some stacktraces?21:43
komputesthe crash/bug reports are the following 3:21:44
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/141613)21:44
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/178038)21:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 192270 in nspluginwrapper "npviewer.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in pthread_mutex_lock()" [Medium,New]21:44
micahgkomputes: I already said I'd do that later tongiht21:47
komputesmicahg: yes you did, slangasek told me to post it here as well.21:47
komputesmicahg: thanks in advance21:47
TheMusoargh! Something in lucid is causing my desktop to randomly reset, but I don't know what, and I can't find anything in logs to indicate what happens.21:53
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
cjohnstonsuperm1: im not sure what your referring to?22:09
superm1cjohnston, sorry i pinged the wrong person.  there's not usually two people in here that start with cj , so  i can tab complete22:11
tweakt_is there any way I can make apt-move respect the overrides so stuff ends up where it's supposed to? I'm getting things in non-free/contrib, etc.22:24
mdzhighvolt1ge, over 50% turnout now22:25
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
highvoltagemdz: it's kind of disappointing, I would think that more people would care. are you going to send some kind of poll to people who didn't vote so that they could specify why they didn't vote?22:27
highvoltage(glad that it's now over 50% at least)22:27
highvoltageI guess some people might feel that all candidates are good ones. Or perhaps some feel that they don't know the candidates well enough (which would be weird if they're a developer)22:31
cjohnstonok superm1.. thanks22:33
cjwatsonhighvoltage: I know I care and just haven't quite got round to voting yet22:34
slangasekzul: can you clarify what you meant in bug #445958 by "no longer being maintained"?  The package was removed from karmic, but has shown back up in lucid via auto-sync because it is maintained in Debian and there was a new version uploaded.  Is there really a reason to blacklist this package, or does it just need to be unseeded from server-ship (...which never happened when the package was removed from the archive)?22:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 445958 in libapache2-mod-auth-pam "Please remove from archive." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44595822:56
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew_
seb128kees, did you have any bug about the nautilus change you put to bzr?23:43
keesseb128: I don't, would you like me to make one for it?23:44
seb128kees, not especially, I was going to upload my indicator application change but my push failed now23:44
seb128kees, I'm not sure if I should try to squeeze your change in the upload or delay to after alpha now23:44
keesseb128: ah, sorry, feel free to bump my revision (it was non-urgent, so I was waiting for the freeze to clear)23:45
seb128kees, could you explain what it does exactly, did you send that upstream too?23:45
keesnah, just bump my stuff.  I'll be uploading a bunch of packages all for the same thing.  I'll go open a bug.23:45
seb128ok thanks23:45
keesseb128: upstream will almost certainly not take it -- their dialog is after months of internal debate.  Ubuntu Tech Board happens to just not agree with it.  :P23:46
seb128I tend to not like things starting by "upstream will almost certainly not" ;-)23:46
keesseb128: yeah.  I tried to deviate as little as possible.23:48
seb128I've not looked at the change yet, doing my update and cleaning bzr before23:49
seb128but in any case please open an upstream bug with rational23:49
seb128to avoid having they unhappy about distro change not sent upstream, etcv23:49
seb128if they don't take it fine but at least we did have the discussion there23:50
keesI can, but it'll basically be reopening an old bug that they think is fixed already23:50
keesokay, I'll do it.23:50
seb128is that the "+x is required to run .destkop"?23:50
seb128that should be fixed since karmic23:50
seb128or jaunty23:50
seb128in which case that doesn't work?23:50
keestheir dialog offers a "run anyway" option which is not allowed by Ubuntu policy.23:50
seb128why not?23:51
keesmy patch just drops the buttons.23:51
keesbecause it's useless security.23:51
seb128why are those discussion not happening in public places?23:51
keesit was discussed at UDS for several sessions, and across weeks of tech board meetings.23:51
seb128who decided that is an ubuntu policy without discussing it with the people concerned first?23:51
seb128first time I read about it23:52
seb128but I don't follow security track or TB meetings23:52
seb128I do read mailing lists and meeting summaries usually though23:52
keesit was in the desktop track 2 UDSes ago23:52
keesit took 6 months to get through tech board.  :)23:52
seb128I'm quite surprised that a desktop policy got written, approved by tb, etc without me reading about it23:53
keesspeed there was mostly from me not pushing hard enough23:53
keesit's not a desktop policy -- it's an ubuntu policy.23:53
keesit affects everything23:53
seb128still it impacts on desktop apps23:53
keesI don't know why pitti didn't mention it.  it was in about 3 sessions in UDS Barcellona23:53
seb128I will talk to him tomorrow23:53
seb128I join them for the sprint23:54
seb128I'm not opposed to the change23:54
seb128I just think upstream had good argument23:54
cjwatsonseb128: the TB decision was "this is OK subject to detailed discussion within the desktop team", so relax a little :-)23:54
seb128and I'm not sure I like to have desktop team non consulted there23:54
cjwatsonlike the desktop team technical lead? :-)23:54
seb128cjwatson, oh, not stressed sorry if it seems so23:54
seb128rather surprised23:55
cjwatsonwho is on the TB and has been in all the discussions on the subject23:55
keesthe key difference is between allowing users to just run the thing anyway with a click vs blocking it.  Gnome came down on the "let them break their system" side, and we came down on the "protect their system" side.23:55
seb128cjwatson, point taken, I will talk to pitti23:55
seb128we sort have 2 desktop teams23:55
seb128one being GNOME who deals with updates, etc, one being the Canonical one where pitti is techlead ;-)23:56
seb128seems we have a communication issue between both ;-)23:56
seb128kees, I'm not sure I agree with the "break their system"23:57
seb128kees, it's rather "don't block them if they really know what they are doing and want to do the action anyway"23:57
seb128kees, like the desktop is there for years and being used and has not been +x-ed on upgrade23:57
keesseb128: right, agreed.  it's a binary choice for a huge grey area.  ultimately, if they know what they're doing, lacking +x isn't a problem.23:58
keesseb128: but, as cjwatson says, it will need more implementation details.23:58
kees(for reference, this is bug 506702)23:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 506702 in wine "needs to block non-executable files from executing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50670223:58
seb128I've the feeling that going to create quite some trouble for users23:59
seb128things in user dir they downloaded and use for years23:59

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