[00:06] <micahg> mahfouz1: I'll file it as an enhancement request
[00:06] <micahg> it's currently win only
[00:06] <micahg> but they might make it optional on linux
[02:28] <mahfouz1> micahg: yes, would be great, since they might stop some of the add-ons with that functionality
[02:29] <mahfouz1> If it's not implemented in linux, then that functionality might get lost
[05:51] <xangua> hello there, i managed to install official mozilla firefox(from ubuntuzilla) and other mozilla based apps (songbird and flock) in ubuntu, but they dont follow my font settings; is there a way i can fix this¿¿
[05:52] <micahg> xangua: we only support the Ubuntu versions
[05:52] <xangua> i also could see this problem in the mozilla testing build PPA
[05:52] <micahg> xangua: k, there are a few bugs for fonts in firefox-3.5
[05:53] <micahg> which specific font setting?
[05:53] <micahg> half size?
[05:53] <xangua> antilasing
[05:53] <xangua> the font looks ugly :S
[05:53] <micahg> xangua: I think you should look at bug 379761
[05:54] <xangua> micahg: thanks, i'll see it
[05:54] <micahg> xangua: there's also bug 67226
[09:15] <BUGabundo_work> morning
[14:36] <gnomefreak> micahg: you around?
[14:37] <micahg> gnomefreak: yes
[14:37] <gnomefreak> micahg: did you ask me about sunbird/seamonkey ~2-3 weeks ago?
[14:37] <micahg> yep
[14:38]  * micahg still needs to get the -dev packages right
[14:38] <gnomefreak> micahg: ok cool, feel free to package them i have run into some personal problems and they wont be cleard up for atleast 3 more weeks.
[14:38] <micahg> gnomefreak: sorry to hear that
[14:38] <micahg> gnomefreak: I'm a little behind myself (TB3 isn't out yet )
[14:39] <gnomefreak> micahg: its ok it should be easly taken care of just have to wait until i can
[14:39] <gnomefreak> ah
[14:39] <micahg> k
[14:44] <gnomefreak> any plans on grabbing Debians instabird package to include in Lucid?
[14:45] <gnomefreak> looks like Mike is asking -mentors(Debians) to test atm
[14:48] <micahg> gnomefreak: idk, I can ask asac
[14:48] <micahg> there's a lot to do this cycle already with the FF3.6 migration
[14:48] <gnomefreak> micahg: ok thanks, if i see him i will ask him but not sure how long i will be here. i have a whole bunch of emails to clean up
[14:49] <gnomefreak> micahg: ah
[14:49]  * micahg also has to package pyxpcom
[14:51] <micahg> 6 weeks to alpha 3 so I should be able to make it
[14:51] <gnomefreak> cool
[15:05]  * BUGabundo_work hugs gnomefreak 
[15:22] <ccheney> asac: any ideas about http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/355243/
[15:29] <asac> ccheney: yes. you lack the type definition somewhere
[15:29] <asac> e.g. probably you have the typdef, but not the struct
[15:39] <micahg> asac: gnomefreak wanted to know if we were interested in instabird from debian
[15:44] <asac> micahg: if it enters testing it probably automatically comes to us, doesnt it?
[15:44] <micahg> asac: it should before freeze, I was wondering if we needed to do anything special with it
[15:46] <gnomefreak> asac: any reason Debian is still using icedove-* for extenstions? i thought this was going to be changed
[15:47] <gnomefreak> or even ice*-*
[15:47] <asac> gnomefreak: its a slow process
[15:48] <asac> as long as no new get added i am happy
[15:48] <asac> hi btw
[15:48] <asac> hope you are all fine ;)
[15:48] <gnomefreak> asac: ok. and hi :)
[15:48] <asac> micahg: we will see once it arrives. if it fails to biuld/start we need to check
[15:48] <gnomefreak> we shall see
[15:48] <micahg> asac: k
[15:48] <ccheney> asac: the typedef for sockaddr_un ?
[15:49] <micahg> asac: not using bind dn to d/l a directory in TB is a minor issue on TB2, right?
[15:50]  * ccheney thinks he must have forgotten something important wrt C
[15:51] <ccheney> ah nm i see why i got confused
[15:51] <ccheney> its defined but at a lower level than glib
[15:52] <micahg> asac: nm
[15:53]  * ccheney needs to write code more often, he is getting too rusty
[15:54] <ccheney> hmm even with adding the proper header it seems to not work :(
[15:54] <asac> ccheney: whatever type is used in those lines
[15:54] <asac> doesnt have the full struct there
[16:01] <gnomefreak> was it Karmic that we are not renaming Shiretoko to firefox-3.5 or just Lucid?
[16:01] <micahg> gnomefreak: Jaunty
[16:01] <gnomefreak> micahg: ok thanks
[16:01] <ccheney> asac: yea appeard to be sockaddr_un which is in sys/socket.h but after including it still failed in the same way
[16:01] <micahg> and it they'll probably get migrated to firefox 3.6 anyways gnomefreak
[16:02] <asac> ccheney: unlikely to be sockaddr_un if its in socket.h
[16:03] <ccheney> oh i misread the contents of the header, i need more caffeine
[16:03] <ccheney> looks like its linux/un.h actually
[16:04] <ccheney> or sys/un.h
[16:04]  * ccheney does a test build and gets caffeine
[16:05] <gnomefreak> micahg: why are we backporting 3.6 to stqable releases?
[16:06] <micahg> gnomefreak: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model
[16:08] <ccheney> yipee that fixed it :)
[16:11] <micahg> asac: got time for anothe build failure?
[16:11] <gnomefreak> micahg: thanks will look in a min
[16:11] <asac> micahg: post it
[16:12] <asac> ccheney: i would expect you wouldnt need to pull in anything that isnt in glib headers
[16:12] <asac> so maybe they copied that header?
[16:12] <asac> in glib2.0?
[16:13] <ccheney> its included via gio/gnetworkingprivate.h
[16:14] <micahg> asac: /bin/sh: Syntax error: end of file unexpected (expecting "}")
[16:14] <asac> right. so pull that in
[16:14] <asac> micahg: thats a syntax error
[16:15] <asac> ;)
[16:15] <micahg> right, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/37762020/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.thunderbird-3.0_3.0.2~hg20100111r4629%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[16:15] <micahg> it's in TB3.0 and XUL1.9.3
[16:15] <micahg> in lucid only
[16:15] <micahg> so my guess is a toolchain issue on amd64
[16:15] <micahg> oh, and amd64 only
[16:15] <asac> try to find if its a recent commit
[16:15] <asac> thats causing this
[16:17] <gnomefreak> ok will be AFK for a while. im sure i have hundreds of updates from the past month or so.
[16:21] <ccheney> i'm confused as to how the get_type functions work
[16:21] <ccheney> they look like this extern __typeof (g_inet_address_get_type) IA__g_inet_address_get_type __attribute((visibility("hidden"))) G_GNUC_CONST;
[16:21] <micahg> asac: they're different branches and the issue started the same day
[16:21] <ccheney> that is the only referenced code i can find but i am not sure what that does but it doesn't look a function definition
[16:22]  * micahg guesses he should look at lucid uploads for that day :)
[16:38] <micahg> asac: is there a way to tell which file is failing?
[16:38]  * micahg can't find a common commit between the branches
[16:41] <asac> micahg: i would think something in /build/buildd/thunderbird-3.0-3.0.2~hg20100111r4629+nobinonly/build-tree/mozilla/mozilla/modules/libpr0n/build
[16:44] <micahg> asac: yep, but those files haven't touched in quite a while
[16:44] <asac> i think we need to reprduce it locally and keep the tree to investigate
[16:45] <micahg> ok, I'll have to do that later
[16:45] <micahg> it's lucid only though
[16:45] <micahg> can I ask pbuilder not to purge?
[16:46] <asac> check what was uploaded since last build success
[16:46] <asac> maybe sh
[16:46] <asac> etc.
[16:46] <asac> you shouldnt use pbuilder for core stuff for development/triaging
[16:46] <micahg> asac: there was a dash upgrade
[16:46] <asac> just to try if clean build works
[16:46] <micahg> asac: I don't have lucid
[16:46] <asac> setup a chroot
[16:46] <micahg> asac: k
[16:47] <asac> debootstrap is your friend
[16:47] <micahg> asac: is there a bzr trick to build in a chroot?
[16:47] <asac> so dash update feels like a good thing to look at
[16:47] <asac> if you hvae it locally build fail you can try tro downgtrade
[16:47] <asac> micahg: you mount your /home in chroot
[16:47] <asac> then you can just use it as usually
[16:48] <asac> bindmount
[16:48] <asac> there is some wiki page how to setup a good chroot for development
[16:48] <asac> you also need to bindmout more stuff like /proc /dev etc.
[16:48] <micahg> k, I'll look later
[16:48] <micahg> have to get ready for work now
[16:49] <asac> kk
[16:50] <micahg> asac: BTW, I created a pyxpcom LP project
[16:50] <micahg> and made mozilla team the maintainer
[16:50] <asac> sounds good
[16:50] <asac> mainter? or owner?
[16:50] <asac> maintainer
[16:52] <micahg> maintainer is owner I think
[16:53] <micahg> projects have maintainers/teams have owners AFAIK
[16:57] <asac> ok ;)
[17:17] <ibkanat> asac I was told to ask you about MCP51 Ethernet in lucid
[17:18]  * BUGabundo_work ducks
[17:18] <ibkanat> doesnt work for me
[17:20] <thunderstruck> we do not have any packages that recommend packages not in archives do we?
[17:20] <micahg> thunderstruck: we shouldn't...you have an example?
[17:20] <micahg> thunderstruck: oh, yeah, maybe
[17:21] <thunderstruck> micahg: bug 506528
[17:21] <micahg> possibly recommending debian versions of ff/tb
[17:21]  * thunderstruck could use examples if we have any for mozilla
[17:21] <thunderstruck> damnit
[17:22] <gnomefreak> much better :)
[17:22] <micahg> gnomefreak: I knew it was you anyways :)
[17:22]  * gnomefreak should fix that for irc
[17:22] <micahg> gnomefreak: well, when we remove something, we endeavour to migrate all rdepends
[17:23] <micahg> gnomefreak: I think you're better off filing specific bugs if you see something rather than a broad based bug like that
[17:23] <gnomefreak> well it makes no sense that we have people go outside our repos since we do not support it and it may be hard for new users
[17:23] <micahg> gnomefreak: indeed, it's probably either something from a debian import or something legacy in most cases
[17:24] <gnomefreak> micahg: i have no way to know them other than goiing through each package and trying to install them
[17:24] <micahg> gnomefreak: I suggest posting to the ubuntu-devel-discuss ML
[17:24] <gnomefreak> IMHO its better to have people remove them during packaging
[17:25] <micahg> soryr
[17:25] <micahg> ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[17:25] <gnomefreak> will do
[17:25] <micahg> no
[17:25] <micahg> that's not right...
[17:25] <micahg> hold on
[17:26] <ccheney> asac: any idea about the weird IA get_type functions?
[17:26] <ccheney> asac: i'm not sure what i am supposed to copy over and how to make the get_type functions to work
[17:26] <micahg> gnomefreak: no, I was right, I think
[17:26] <gnomefreak> yep you were :)
[17:26] <micahg> k
[17:34] <asac> ccheney: which one?
[17:36] <asac> fta2: i marked https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/network-manager-applet/network-manager-applet.head.daily as abandoned
[17:36] <asac> so it doesnt show up in the active branch list
[17:36] <ccheney> eg g_inet_address_get_type
[17:36] <asac> so if you get troubles because of that just shoot
[17:36] <ccheney> they seem to have no function body
[17:36] <asac> usually those get defined by G_TYPE_DEFINE macros
[17:36] <asac> search for those in .c files
[17:36] <asac> rather G.*TYPE_DEFINE
[17:37] <ccheney> well there is like this:
[17:37] <ccheney> #define G_TYPE_INET_ADDRESS        (g_inet_address_get_type ())
[17:37] <ccheney> and then
[17:37] <ccheney> GType     g_inet_address_get_type        (void) G_GNUC_CONST;
[17:37] <ccheney> but no body for the g_inet_address_get_type itself
[17:37] <ccheney> it has some sort of weird IA_(blah) stuff but i don't understand how that stuff works
[17:38] <ccheney> eg - extern __typeof (g_inet_address_get_type) IA__g_inet_address_get_type __attribute((visibility("hidden"))) G_GNUC_CONST;
[17:38] <ccheney> that doesn't actually do anything does it?
[17:38] <ccheney> except set the symbol as inivisible in gcc(?)
[17:39] <asac> yes, that hides it
[17:39] <ccheney> in another area i see: extern __typeof (g_inet_address_get_type) g_inet_address_get_type __attribute((alias("IA__g_inet_address_get_type"), visibility("default")));
[17:39] <asac> dont know what __typeof
[17:39] <asac> that defines that g_inet_address_get_type is rather IA__g_inet_address_get_type
[17:39] <asac> aka alias
[17:41] <ccheney> ah so i need to copy both of those to my header?
[17:41] <ccheney> and then it should just work i guess?
[17:41] <asac> most likely
[17:41] <asac> yes
[17:41] <asac> both defs and the impl for IA___
[17:41] <asac> if there is any ... otherwise there must be a G_DEFINE.*TYPE or something in the ia_ source
[17:41] <ccheney> i don't see any impl for the IA__
[17:42] <ccheney> hmm ok
[17:42] <asac> as i said, thats generated by a macro
[17:42] <asac> you can build with -save-temps
[17:42] <asac> and see what gets created and try to find that
[17:42] <ccheney> oh ok
[17:52] <asac> _DEFINE_TYPE_WITH_CODE (GInetAddress, g_inet_address, G_TYPE_OBJECT, _g_networking_init ();)
[17:52] <asac> ./gio/ginetaddress.c
[17:53] <ccheney> ok
[18:24] <jcastro> asac: what you tweeted is a feature
[18:25] <jcastro> it only searches the beginning of URLs, not the title
[18:25] <asac> really?
[18:25] <asac> sucky then ;)
[18:25] <jcastro> so if it's wiki.ubuntu.com/Whatever/Whatever
[18:25] <asac> thats what i thought
[18:25] <jcastro> if you search for Whatever it doesn't find anything
[18:25] <asac> well. it definitly searches the url
[18:25] <jcastro> but if you have whatever.blah.com it finds it
[18:25] <asac> i can find stuff in the middle of urls at least
[18:25] <asac> thats not true ;)
[18:25] <jcastro> are you sure it's not the title of the page?
[18:26] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2PackageReviewList
[18:26] <asac> go to that page
[18:26] <asac> afterwards you will find it by Thumb2
[18:26] <asac> hmm
[18:26] <asac> oh so you say it searches the title?
[18:26] <asac> just not the url?
[18:26] <jcastro> correct
[18:26] <jcastro> sec, I have the upstream bug
[18:26] <jcastro> they do it for performance reasons
[18:26] <asac> dont mind. firefox behaviour is definitly rockier ;)
[18:27] <jcastro> FF fills in as it finds them iirc
[18:27] <asac> ok
[18:27] <jcastro> FF returns better results imo
[18:27]  * asac thinks that the performance isnt that great atm either
[18:27] <asac> yes
[18:27] <asac> ff rocks ;)
[18:27] <asac> i often go back to it because i just cannot find the url in chromium ;)
[18:28] <asac> but thanks for clarifying.
[18:28] <jcastro> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=367&can=5&colspec=ID%20Stars%20Pri%20Area%20Type%20Status%20Summary%20Modified%20Owner%20Mstone%20OS#c7
[18:28] <jcastro> I was wondering that last week too because it drives me mad
[18:28] <asac> thats the other annoying thing ;)
[18:28] <asac> the URL of issues is always busted if you use find
[18:28] <jcastro> you only have one "other" annoying thing? :p
[18:28] <asac> and posting takes effort to strip it (of course different front)
[18:29] <asac> yes, otherwise i am happy ... oh wait!!
[18:29] <asac> there is this voip problem in combination with pulse ;)
[18:29] <asac> that regularly gives me real pain and heart attacks
[18:29] <asac> when i need to dial in somewhere and folks dont hear me etc.
[18:30] <asac> so now i alwasy first call google search
[18:30] <jcastro> I have been pretty lucky so far.
[18:30] <asac> then if that works, dial in somewhere ;)
[18:30] <asac> have you tried google search call service?
[18:30] <jcastro> no I have some voice thing on my g1 that does that
[18:30] <jcastro> where you go "I need to find the nearest pizza place"
[18:31] <asac> sure its the same?
[18:31] <asac> darn
[18:31] <asac> yeah
[18:31] <asac> ok
[18:31] <jcastro> and it returns "Your request for finding carburators and marbles is pending."
[18:31] <asac> i am happy ot have it to test my voip ;)
[18:31] <asac> echo service always takes like a minute before i can test my own void
[18:31] <asac> voice
[18:31] <asac> 0018004664411
[18:31] <asac> thats the number ;)
[18:33] <asac> the other thing most annoying is my internet sucking
[18:50] <asac> fta2: btw, feel free to upload gyp to archive as often as you want ;)
[18:50] <asac> like after landing of licenseing issues etc.
[18:50] <asac> not that i need to tell you that ;)
[19:25] <fta> asac, sure. btw, what's the status of the chromium review action point?
[19:31] <asac> fta: i need all license full textx referred to in the whitelist
[19:31] <asac> with that we are fine
[19:31] <asac> MINUS
[19:31] <asac> Ms-Pl
[19:31] <asac> that license is GPL incompatible
[19:31] <asac> aka illegal to distribute ... a
[19:52] <asac> fta: so if you feel like it help on finding the full license texts somewhere is appreciated. will probably take another week otherwise : ... and i would love to just upload :)
[19:58] <fta> there's a new beta available, i'm working with upstream to have the channels updated (there's a wrong DEPS file and/or a too strict gclient)
[19:58] <and`> asac: will it be uploaded into Debian as well?
[19:59] <and`> asac: I would love seeing it there as well
[19:59] <asac> and`: once its went through our archive admins i will try.
[19:59] <asac> but i guess that will get rejected in debian for a bit longer
[19:59] <asac> or take a year to review ;=)
[19:59] <asac> and`: you can help ;)
[19:59] <and`> asac: sure
[20:00] <asac> find the full license texts referred to in the whitelist of licnsecheck.pl
[20:00] <asac> and make a file dep-5 file tail
[20:00] <asac> with those
[20:00] <asac> e.g. License: BSD (3-clause)
[20:00] <asac> ...
[20:00] <asac> http://pastebin.com/f5b903399
[20:00] <asac> thats the licensecheck with the whitelisted license
[20:01] <asac> they are somewhere in the chromium orig ;)
[20:01] <asac> we just need to prepare a dep-5 style file with them all
[20:01] <asac> http://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/copyright.full -> that might give an good indication where to look for that in the source tarball ;)
[20:01] <and`> asac: to summarize it: it's a pain :)
[20:01] <asac> well. I went through massive pain already ;)
[20:02] <asac> so a bit pain on other shoulders is acceptable ;)
[20:02] <asac> its minor pain
[20:02] <and`> yes, understood what you mean, did that with some GNOME packages but they had far less source files than chromium has :D
[20:02] <asac> compared to going through all files like i did ;)
[20:02] <asac> and`: you dont need to make the dep-5 file
[20:02] <asac> i just need the License parts
[20:02] <asac> e.g.
[20:02] <asac> License: ...
[20:02] <asac> FULL license text
[20:02] <asac> we already have the actual copyright stuff
[20:03] <asac> http://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/copyright.full
[20:03] <asac> that was the main pain i went through
[20:03] <and`> omg :D
[20:03] <asac> and`: in the first paste there are like 20 licenses. those wee need to collect
[20:03] <asac> somewhere
[20:03] <asac> either in dep-5 or as individual files so we can generate the dep-5
[20:03] <asac> and append that to the copyright.full thin i posted
[20:05] <asac> uploads to debian will definitly happen without testsuite and without -dbg package. at least until fta is uploader and can push th binaries through his big pipe :)
[20:05] <asac> i dont feel like uploading 1G ;)
[20:05] <asac> ccheney: all moving smoothlie?
[20:05] <and`> asac: I can help with letting it through
[20:05] <asac> yeah ;)
[20:05] <asac> first help on the LICENSE files please
[20:05] <fta> asac, aren't we supposed to just put links to the well known licenses, instead of the full texts
[20:06] <asac> fta: we still need to add the short form for those that are in well known
[20:06] <asac> but htose are not my concern
[20:06] <asac> my concern are all the bsd variants and the bsd-like and stuff like that
[20:06] <asac> there are plenty that arent in common :)
[20:07] <fta> asac, why would you need to upload dbg? (there's no more testsuite debs btw)
[20:07] <asac> but and` probably knows better what to do
[20:07] <asac> fta: there is no testsuite debs anymore?
[20:07] <asac> did we drop that?
[20:07] <asac> great!
[20:07] <fta> yes, months ago
[20:07] <asac> or was that never there and my brain is choking
[20:07] <asac> ok
[20:07] <asac> and no -dbg?
[20:07] <asac> i assume we probably want those
[20:08] <asac> esp. in debian there is no dbgsym
[20:08] <and`> asac: yes, don't fully count on me these days for doing it extra-fast, just finished holidays and need to prepare exams and stuff, so it will take some time : /
[20:08] <asac> and`: do it in small chunk
[20:08] <asac> each license you collect is a clear win ;)
[20:08] <asac> we need this this week
[20:09] <asac> otherwise world is going to die
[20:09] <and`> lol
[20:10] <fta> asac, dbg is there, but you don't upload that.. unless debian needs binary debs too??
[20:10] <and`> fta: yes, Debian uses binary uploads
[20:10] <and`> so no -dbg ;)
[20:11] <fta> 78.6MB (dbg)
[20:11] <and`> uploading that would be simply crazy :D
[20:11] <fta> testsuite-deb used to be 800MB++
[20:11] <fta> dbg
[20:12] <and`> fta: when uploading it to Debian you need to make sure that those are not built
[20:12] <and`> otherwise it will be harder to have it accepted
[20:12] <fta> 80MB is not that big, openarena-data is way bigger
[20:12] <fta> imho, -dbg is mandatory
[20:13] <fta> otherwise, byebye crash reports
[20:13] <asac> fta: debian needs them thats the point why i complaining ;)
[20:13] <asac> you basically push all sources + all binaries for one arch + all
[20:13] <and`> well, as long as chromium-browser doesnt directly depend on an 80 mb package, that's fine
[20:13] <asac> thats why i refuse to do security updates in debian nowadays
[20:14] <asac> they should fix their retarded system first
[20:14] <and`> asac: well, binary uploads are a pain but prevents broken packages to get in
[20:14] <asac> well. thats a dubious point
[20:14] <and`> ppl don't test-build their packages and that's why we have tons of FTBFS
[20:15] <asac> it also ensures that you never know whether your binary was actually biuld from clean source
[20:15] <fta> so there's no way to have chromium in debian, not enough arch coverage
[20:15] <asac> debian just sticks to old models
[20:15] <and`> asac: DDs know how to build properly a package
[20:15] <asac> then they should also know that they should test a package before uploading
[20:15] <asac> so you can upload source only ;)
[20:16] <asac> fta: why?
[20:16] <asac> not enough arch coverage?
[20:16] <and`> well, that's not a direct procedure, if you know you need to do a binary upload you *have to* build it before
[20:16] <asac> what does that mean?
[20:16] <asac> and`: yes, but if it fails you can just fix it and continue. or workaround and sign and upload :)
[20:16] <and`> someone might say 'well, I'm sure it will build fine', he does a source upload and then another FTBFS
[20:16] <asac> all happened
[20:17] <asac> point is: binary only doesnt give you much
[20:17] <asac> if the sources dont build the damange is zero
[20:17] <asac> except wasting some buildd time
[20:17] <fta> asac, the plethora of arches debian supports, we can't provide those binaries
[20:17] <asac> -> which was reasonable at some point in the 90th ;)
[20:17] <asac> fta: doesnt matter
[20:17] <asac> you upload with any ... if it never built on an arch its not a problem that it fails
[20:18] <asac> idea is that porters can then start on that
[20:18] <asac> only a RC bug if it previously built on an arch, but then doesnt
[20:18] <and`> asac: well, I don't think building a package is such a pain before uploading (it might be if you maintain huge packages, but that's not what normally happens)
[20:18] <asac> as that would be a regression for usres on upgrades
[20:18] <asac> building not, but uploading if you upload big packages
[20:18] <asac> also building is a pain
[20:18] <and`> yes, I agree with you on that
[20:18] <asac> i would never be able to do security updates for mozilla in the same scala we do it in ubuntu
[20:18] <and`> I never had huge packages so that's why I'm not complaining atm
[20:19] <asac> like two branches to 5 releases
[20:19] <asac> -> never
[20:19] <asac> ;)
[20:19] <asac> right. but once you see your dsl provider being flaky and the whole upload being for nothing because the dbg package doesnt finish ;)
[20:19] <asac> you know what i mean
[20:19] <and`> asac: well, forwarding the fix to Debian would be enough :)
[20:19] <asac> also then you have to send a dcut upload to first remove stuff from the incombing queue
[20:19] <asac> another paranoid thing in debian
[20:19] <asac> they are scared that someone would overwrite your uploads ;)
[20:20] <asac> and`: i sent patches for quite some time to debian folks for mozilla
[20:20] <asac> they often didnt even have the time to test them
[20:20] <asac> nor upload
[20:20] <asac> security patches
[20:20] <and`> how many years ago? :)
[20:20] <asac> not so long
[20:21] <asac> 9month or so
[20:21] <asac> or 1 year at most
[20:21] <asac> e.g. when firefox 1.5 went EOL for us
[20:21] <asac> i stopped doing backports
[20:22] <asac> and since my patches often didnt get uploaded and i refuse to do that for a bit over a year now because of said reasons
[20:22] <asac> i stopped doing that
[20:22] <asac> (also i dont like it anymore)
[20:22] <and`> unfortunately I saw that you left your packages a bit unmaintained in Debian (e.g icedove et all), and I didnt get why you stopped
[20:22] <asac> not really
[20:22] <asac> icedove 2 is tbird 2 which was dead for ages
[20:22] <asac> now we have 3
[20:23] <asac> if you say unmaintained because of no bug triage thats a different issue
[20:23] <asac> i just refuse to proxy for loads of bugs
[20:23] <asac> i did the same for ubuntu
[20:23] <and`> I don't see an upload from you in Debian since some time aparts sponsoring, which is ok since you have tons of stuff to do
[20:23] <asac> now we can connect bugs with upstream in ubuntu and let the users talk directly
[20:23] <and`> but someone else might see it in a different view
[20:23] <asac> and`: because icedove had no release
[20:23] <asac> i stopped security updates because of said reasons
[20:24] <and`> well, you didnt maintain icedove only
[20:24] <asac> enigmail is same issue ;)
[20:24] <and`> or was it the only package?
[20:24] <asac> mostly ... i also helped on iceape and did security for all mozilla packages
[20:24] <asac> including xulrunner etc.
[20:25] <and`> I would love seeing you a bit more involved in Debian as you were in the past, but that will be mostly impossible
[20:26] <and`> I understand your points, I just think that if you don't have the time to follow those packages anymore, orphaning them would have been the right choice
[20:26] <asac> which packages
[20:26] <asac> all packages are good ;)
[20:26] <asac> icedove is fine
[20:26] <and`> I saw some of them got orphaned
[20:26] <asac> not sure what you are saying
[20:26] <asac> which ones?
[20:26] <and`> with cause: not properly maintained
[20:27] <and`> they were orphaned by glandium
[20:27] <and`> if I remember it right
[20:27] <asac> he orphaned xulrunner
[20:27] <asac> none of my packages i hope
[20:27] <asac> then i wanted to take it so i can sync debian and ubuntu
[20:27] <asac> and he said he didnt orphan it for real ;)
[20:28] <asac> iceape got orphaned, but that was a joint effort of debian mozillateam
[20:28] <asac> and the debian mozillateam is a joke, because it waas me and mike ... and mike being unwilling to coorporate since i joined ubuntu
[20:28] <asac> made that void
[20:28] <asac> anyway, recently there is now more stuff going on there
[20:29] <asac> but mostly by extension team
[20:29] <and`> 8 RC bugs in icedove and 4 on iceowl, more than 400 open bugs, well maybe the bug tracker needs to be refreshed / cleaned a bit removing fixed / old reports
[20:29] <and`> but for sure it needs work, like bluez does atm
[20:29] <asac> feel free to work on the bug tracker
[20:30] <and`> bluez does not have a maintainer anymore and that's a big issue since every bluetooth interface depends on it
[20:30] <asac> if folks file bugs against an old icedove version that will not have any fixes for sure its not my business ;)
[20:30] <gnomefreak> 2.* is dead now isnt it?
[20:30] <asac> its for ages practically dead
[20:30] <asac> thats why it doesnt make sense to put work into it
[20:31] <and`> sure, but I read that the maint is Ubuntu Mozilla Team so cleaning up the bug tracker should be a maintainer's work
[20:31] <gnomefreak> right
[20:31] <asac> iceowl is dead too
[20:31] <asac> nly extension survives
[20:31] <gnomefreak> 1.0b*\
[20:31] <and`> luckily the ext team seems a bit more active after some time, at least that
[20:31] <asac> also the only way to get anyone contribute to mozilla stuff seems to be to do just nothing
[20:32] <asac> yes, but extensions are easy and fun work
[20:32] <asac> mozilla software is painful and you dont find anyone helping out ...
[20:32] <and`> starting someone in doing mozilla-related work is a pain, I know
[20:32] <and`> and that's why I don't see any new face here since 4 years
[20:32] <asac> extensions are a good stepping stone, but the step is quite big
[20:33] <gnomefreak> we have a bunch of people working on mozilla apps. since upload priv... are hard to come by in Debian it makes it a bit harder to find willing people (as far as i see it)
[20:33] <asac> like check the qa page out: http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/icedove.html
[20:33] <asac> 21 security vuln -> what a mess
[20:33] <and`> gnomefreak: well, no one ever asked me to sponsor anything moz-ext related since now
[20:33] <asac> why do i need to spend time and clean stuff up that others claim without knowing anything
[20:34] <and`> gnomefreak: so I don't think it's a sponsoring / missing priv problem
[20:34] <asac> and the non-maintainer upload was because i asked him to upload his minimal change ... another painful thing that QA says its a NMU just because someone else uploads it for you
[20:35] <and`> asac: you can easily ignore the NMU error if you are sure you aren't hijacking the package :)
[20:36] <asac> how ignore. the bug wasnt closed
[20:36] <asac> just because of this
[20:36] <asac> what a mess ;)
[20:36] <asac> but you are right, i probably should just leave the whole project :)
[20:36] <asac> and orphan all mozilla packages ;)
[20:37] <and`> asac: well, I just would like to see some more Ubuntu ppl contributing back to Debian
[20:37] <asac> but we saw how great that worked with iceape ... its gone
[20:37]  * micahg wonders if it's worth becoming a DD
[20:37] <cyphermox_> and`: some do!
[20:38] <and`> cyphermox: luckily you are right, some do :)
[20:38] <asac> and`: i did the work everyone claimed to be impossible before i did it for years
[20:38] <asac> i backported mozilla packages
[20:38] <asac> before i was in debian, there was no security for firefox
[20:38] <asac> now that i am not doing it anymore, it will work until upstream EOLs the branch
[20:38] <asac> then good bye
[20:38] <and`> asac: just think about the python mess in Debian, that's what I define *crazy*
[20:38] <asac> when i did the whole patches, ensuring everything was there, i was still ranted at
[20:39] <gnomefreak> bug 113201
[20:40] <fta> asac, as LATEST.txt is still broken, i've extended g-o-s to accept stuff like CHANNEL=4.0.288.1  (in addition to CHANNEL={beta,Beta,dev,Dev})
[20:41] <and`> asac: I know that you alwais wanted to give back to Debian and I appreciate that, I just hope I gonna see your name again somewhen, I would feel happy, really
[20:42] <micahg> gnomefreak: do you need feedback?
[20:45] <gnomefreak> micahg: for what?
[20:45] <micahg> for that bug?
[20:46] <gnomefreak> micahg: no there was no title in my email for the bug
[20:46] <micahg> gnomefreak: k
[20:46] <gnomefreak> wait yes i do
[20:46] <micahg> heh
[20:46] <gnomefreak> i commented on the bug if anyone sees this in 3.5 3.6
[20:47]  * gnomefreak thought i just did :(
[20:47]  * micahg usually lets upstream sort it out if it's open
[20:47] <micahg> they seem to be trying to figure out if it's fixed or not on 1.9.1
[20:48] <micahg> but I wouldn't bother updating FF3.0 bugs to FF3.5 at this point since we might end up moving them again in 3 months
[20:48] <micahg> at least the triaged ones
[20:48] <gnomefreak> k
[20:48] <micahg> the untriaged, go for it
[20:49] <micahg> gnomefreak: asac still has to decide which source package to use for ff3.6
[20:49] <asac> blocked on understanding what channels mohzilla will maintain
[20:49] <asac> [reed]: any decision yet?
[20:50] <asac> e.g. will you have stable/beta/dev like chrome?
[20:50] <asac> i catched that in some discussion
[20:50] <[reed]> hmm
[20:50] <asac> but mconnor said it might be more complex/different when i last asked
[20:51] <gnomefreak> micahg: im still going through >6000 emails. so far will exception to the 1 1/2 hour meeting i have been doing it all day
[20:51] <asac> having such channels would definitly help us to pick the package names in a long term stable fashion
[20:51] <asac> like firefox firefox-beta firefox-trunk
[20:52] <asac> or firefox firefox-next firefox-dev firefox-daily
[20:52] <micahg> gnomefreak: I still have 4k unread and I go through it daily :)
[20:53] <gnomefreak> just catching up from from dec 14th
[20:53] <gnomefreak> s/just/still
[20:56] <ccheney> asac: i think so, had a late lunch and now looking at it again
[20:56] <ccheney> asac: it changed the failure in any case :)
[20:57] <asac> which might mean progress ;)
[21:09] <gnomefreak> be back i lost my glasses :(
[21:10] <gnomefreak> dog food bag of all places
[21:12] <gnomefreak> should we add a trunk build of enigmail for non-released tb versions? or please add trunk builds of it atleast in our daily PPA?
[21:19] <gnomefreak> ok gone for the day.