[00:12] <Riddell> who's good at proofreading?
[00:12] <Riddell> nixternal must be, docs and aa that
[00:12] <Riddell> nixternal: how does this read? http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/interview
[00:19] <genii> Holy side-scroll batman
[00:20] <ScottK> Tools -> Word Wrap Document (in Kate)
[00:22] <ScottK> Riddell: One typo so far: "Most uses will have no idea ..." / "Most users will have no idea ..."
[00:22] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: you about?
[00:24] <ScottK> Riddell: Somewhere in there there was a reference to you as the leader of the project.  I think that would be a good time to talk about the Kubuntu Council and how Kubuntu is community run.
[00:25] <ScottK> (that's another way Kubuntu is different than Ubuntu, BTW)
[00:25] <ScottK> IMO we get both less financial support and less management from Canonical and I'm good with that.
[00:27] <Riddell> good idea, although I don't think it mentions anything about leaders
[00:28] <genii> It could use some commas here and there
[00:30] <Riddell> genii: diff appreciated :)
[00:32] <genii> OK, gimme a few minutes
[00:50] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: you don't need to "include /usr/lib/kubuntu-desktop-i18n/debhelper/kubuntu.mk" now with debhelper 7, I got it to generate .pot files without that
[00:51] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: we should do a backport or kcm-touchpad to karmic so we can try and convince seele or one of her minions to do a UI review
[00:51] <maco> seele doesnt have virtualbox?
[00:52] <Riddell> maybe, not sure
[00:52] <genii> Riddell: http://pastebin.com/f4ca33fb8
[00:53] <genii> 2-3 typos corrected as well
[00:53] <Riddell> lovely, thanks genii
[00:53] <genii> np
[01:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: W: kcm-touchpad: extra-license-file usr/share/doc/kcm_touchpad/LICENSE.gz
[01:01] <Riddell> not very important but no point wasting disk space I guess
[01:21] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: neat, nice to know about kubuntu.mk
[01:51] <ScottK> KDE 4.3.4 for karmic-backports is finally finished building on IA64 (Sparc not yet done).
[01:52] <ScottK> It's been a lllllong time since I uploaded that.
[01:55] <genii> I find it difficult to imagine someone on an Itanium box using (K)ubuntu :)
[01:56] <crimsun> heh, I do have access to an itanic
[01:58] <ScottK> genii: Proabaly not, but I've seen at least one bug in Karmic filed against an IA64 package and it was a gui package(IIRC)
[01:58] <ScottK> So who knows.
[01:58] <nixternal> Riddell: sorry, readin it now
[01:58] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: yo yo
[02:05] <nixternal> Riddell: I think all of the typos have been pointed out to you...looks good
[02:06] <crimsun> Riddell: is that the refreshed version with corrections?
[02:08] <crimsun> e.g., "The lastest LTS 8.04" ?
[02:08] <nixternal> doesn't seem to be updated yet, as I still see the "uses" instead of "users" typo
[02:28] <DarkwingDuck> Hey nixternal, I got both systems back now.
[02:29] <DarkwingDuck> Full time.
[02:29] <DarkwingDuck> I have some docs to finish up. When are we sending stuff to the translators?
[02:31] <genii> nixternal: Was also "manor" as opposed to "manner"
[02:33] <ScottK> How are the current ISOs working with Plymouth?
[02:34] <crimsun> if KMS works and if you don't use ciphered lvm /, then it should be okay
[02:34] <crimsun> in other words, it fails utterly for my use cases
[02:34] <ScottK> Nice
[02:35] <crimsun> the boot itself is fine; I just enter my passphrases blindly and hope that I don't fatfinger
[02:35] <crimsun> tseliot mentioned that he was looking at it
[02:37] <ScottK> OK.
[02:43] <JontheEchidna> plymouth worked fine for me, with the exception of the progress bar never showing up
[02:52] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: that gets done automatically
[02:52] <nixternal> ScottK: they seem to be working fine, re: isos/plymouth
[02:53] <nixternal> I got the bar to show once JontheEchidna...it was corrupted looking, but it still showed :)
[02:53] <ScottK> OK.
[02:53] <nixternal> Riddell: libspnav uploaded for ya
[02:53] <JontheEchidna> same here, once
[02:54] <JontheEchidna> no corruption though
[02:54] <nixternal> what did I do today? I didn't get a damn thing done that was on my todo list
[02:54] <nixternal> oh, iso's
[02:55] <ScottK> Go do some MIRs then.  Quick.  You got 3 hours
[02:55] <genii> Spent time making todo lists? ;)
[03:01] <nixternal> 3 hours for what?
[03:01] <nixternal> I make my todo list on the fly with my trusty pen and notepad :)
[03:02] <ScottK> nixternal: 3 hours until your out of today to have done something today
[03:02] <nixternal> I have 1 hour
[03:02] <nixternal> actually, 58 minutes
[03:02] <ScottK> Why?
[03:02] <nixternal> never mind
[03:02] <nixternal> my plasma panel froze on my desktop and says "23:02"
[03:03] <nixternal> must have froze last night
[03:03] <ScottK> Heh
[03:03] <nixternal> oh wow, it froze 3 days ago
[03:03] <nixternal> lol
[03:03] <nixternal> 23:02 - Sat, 9 Jan
[03:04] <nixternal> I have to leave it running, because if I shut it down, there is a good chance it will not start back up
[03:06] <ScottK> Nice
[03:08] <crimsun> using bzr to merge is /hard/
[03:08]  * crimsun shakes his cane
[03:08] <ScottK> Even when it goes smoothly, it's more work
[03:08] <crimsun> I mean, I still have to merge by hand to verify it
[03:09] <crimsun> (and by that point, what's the point?)
[03:09] <ScottK> crimsun: Clearly you don't understand the wonders of dvcs.  It's clearly superior
[03:11] <crimsun> younguns with their newfangled shiny  </humbug>
[03:12] <nixternal> crimsun: it isn't hard, it just isn't as efficient as to the ways we are used to
[03:13] <crimsun> nixternal: perhaps. For people who used MoM, the bzr merge way is still pretty rough. For people who merged by hand, it's pretty noisy.
[03:13] <nixternal> for instance: instead of MoM doing it all for us, like for instance merging the changelog, we now get to do that by hand, and thankfully there are plenty of [03:14] <nixternal> I used kdiff for my merges by hand, it was really nice as it gave me A, B, and C...A is the old, B is the new, and C is the combination
[03:14] <crimsun> I mean, I /think/ the goal is to be able to click an icon and have the merge done
[03:14] <nixternal> scary goal, but yes I feel that is the goal as well
[03:14] <ScottK> AFAICT the current incarnation of the system is incapable of ever getting the debian/changelog merge done.
[03:14] <nixternal> so people who can click a hyperlink can become core developers
[03:15] <ScottK> Even scarier is then you commit the branch and it builds the package.
[03:15] <nixternal> ScottK: I thought there was work being done with merge-package that fixes the changelog
[03:15] <nixternal> yeah, which I have to remember
[03:15] <ScottK> nixternal: No doubt.  That's why I said current.
[03:17] <nixternal> because I keep dput'ing the package and forgetting to do bzr mark-uploaded
[03:17] <ScottK> nixternal: Why bother?
[03:17] <ScottK> It'll just get pulled from the upload anyway.
[03:17] <nixternal> that way there a build isn't attempted after pushing it I guess
[03:18] <ScottK> The push the branch and then build from it isn't implemented yet.
[03:18] <nixternal> oh, thought it was
[03:18] <ScottK> Personally, I've just rm'ed the branch after I dput.
[03:20] <ScottK> All of 4.3.90 is built on powerpc now too.
[03:21] <nixternal> ooh, just realized that machine was turned off...I blew a circuit today...need me to start it up for you?
[03:22] <ScottK> Not now.
[03:29] <ScottK> It seems vaguely cannabalistic to be making the usb boot stick that I'm going to overwrite my current netbook install with from the netbook.
[03:35] <ScottK> Maybe it's been this way all along and i never noticed, by the USB stick got mounted owned by the 'disk' and not my user.
[03:35] <ScottK> Known bug?  Design choice?
[03:41] <nixternal> dude, findgraphicsmagick.cmake in koffice does not freakin' work, and I can't figure out why...I have every damn package belonging to graphicsmagick and imagemagick installed
[04:22] <ScottK> Lucid seems wicked fast.
[04:24] <nixternal> I will have to agree with that statement
[04:24] <nixternal> koffice is kicking my ass
[04:25] <nixternal> I got it down to must missing 3 deps... Create Resources (which is in our repos but doesn't seem to get picked up by cmakelists), QtShiva which I can't get my head around and isn't in our repos, and GraphicsMagick which I don't care what I install, it doesn't get recognized
[04:27] <seele> Riddell: it's on my todo list but only happens after i get through all my interview crap
[04:27] <seele> Riddell: and i have virtualbox :P
[04:27] <maco> that was me that asked that
[04:30] <maco> Riddell: "also promoting the user of social networking" s/user/use/
[04:32] <maco> Riddell: also " We have less paid developers" s/less/fewer/
[04:33] <genii> QtShiva seems to be some sub-part of openctl/opengtl
[04:36] <maco> Riddell: "We won't be shipping with Firefox unless is suddenly" s/is/it/
[04:37] <maco> Riddell: "patches for Firefox, however these" s/, however/; however,/
[04:40] <maco> goodness the person who wrote the questions made a lot of typos
[04:40]  * JontheEchidna always did merges by hand with Kate
[04:40] <JontheEchidna> Still do, too
[04:40] <JontheEchidna> But if bzr merging is all conflict resolving... do not want
[04:42] <JontheEchidna> I like just doing the thing by hand rather than appeasing an uncaring, cruel vcs without messing up
[04:43] <JontheEchidna> ...but maybe this is all because I didn't read on how to resolve bzr conflicts properly when I forgot to pull packaging branches before committing my work
[04:44] <JontheEchidna> I think I know how to do that properly now, but in the past I basically had to baleet the whole local bzr branch and branch it again
[04:45] <nixternal> genii: yes it is, but it will not build because it says gtl core isn't installed, when it is, and it is up to date thanks to JontheEchidna :)
[04:47] <nixternal> fix conflicts by hand, bzr resolve, then do bzr conflicts to see if you got them all :)
[04:47] <JontheEchidna> meh, I'll start doing bzr merges when I have to. I got my system pretty well down in the meantime
[04:47] <genii> nixternal: http://www.opengtl.org/Download.html seems to indicate that QtShiva was incorporated now into libQtGTL
[04:49] <JontheEchidna> libgtlcore0 has /usr/lib/libOpenShiva.so.0.6 too
[04:49] <nixternal> right, I am trying to build libQtGtl and it will not go
[04:49] <vorian> I thought we had qtshiva since before 4.2
[04:50] <nixternal> where is it?
[04:50] <JontheEchidna> yay for confusing library names
[04:50] <nixternal> there is no QtShiva.pc files located anywhere in the archive
[04:51]  * vorian is looking
[04:51] <JontheEchidna> according to http://www.opengtl.org/Download.html there's also an example app with the same name, QtShive :S
[04:52] <nixternal> strangely though, since you said that vorian, I kind of remember a similar conversation in the past
[04:52] <vorian> yup
[04:52] <nixternal> yeah, that opengtl website sucks
[04:52] <nhandler> 1/save
[04:52] <JontheEchidna> naming an app after a library is bad practice
[04:53] <vorian> heh, that pegs alot of the apps in various kde apps
[04:54] <vorian> pfft
[04:54] <JontheEchidna> maybe it is just the website that sucks
[04:54] <JontheEchidna> but would it hurt to just name the tutorial app QtShivaDemo?
[04:54] <JontheEchidna> then list the library as libqtshiva
[04:55] <vorian> that is funny
[04:56] <JontheEchidna> maybe it's too late at night for me to think about library packaging :(
[04:57] <vorian> haha
[04:57] <vorian> it's never a good time to properly think about libs packaging :)
[04:58] <JontheEchidna> Or maybe I just can't read about the physics theory behind capacitors and right after talk about libs packaging
[04:58] <nixternal> rock on, koffice doesn't need libgraphicsmagick even though it tells you it does in 2.1.1, fixed in trunk
[04:58] <nixternal> create resources is actually found, but cmake tells you otherwise, fixed in trunk
[04:59] <nixternal> now to figure out this qtshiva shit
[04:59] <nixternal> oh jeesh, I never want to read anymore electronics shit relating to theory
[04:59] <vorian> rgreening is the dood that would know /me thinks
[05:00] <nixternal> I almost went for my EE..thank god my dad stopped me
[05:00] <vorian> lol
[05:00] <crimsun> bah, EE would've been fun
[05:00] <ScottK> Oh my.
[05:00] <nixternal> he is an electrical engineer, so I will take his word for it
[05:01] <ScottK> Now when kpackagekit can't get the dpkg lock it whines at you about "legacy packaging tools that may be in use"
[05:01] <nixternal> heh, when I first got out of the Navy I was doing PLC and SLC programming...which is typically a job for electrical engineers...I noticed everyone who had a EE were miserable assholes
[05:01] <crimsun> stop using ar!
[05:01] <nixternal> I was just an asshole, but never miserable
[05:02] <vorian> ohmy
[05:03] <nixternal> ar would definitely be legacy
[05:03] <nixternal> heh, we should create an archive based on the ar format
[05:04] <crimsun> oh wait :)
[05:04] <nixternal> !<arch>\n
[05:04] <nixternal> ;p
[05:05] <nixternal> stupid ubottu message me telling me he doesn't know anything about arch
[05:05] <nixternal> what a stupid bot
[05:07] <tsimpson> nixternal: patches welcome ;)
[05:07] <nixternal> cat 01_shutup_bot.diff
[05:07] <nixternal> rm -rf /*
[05:08] <nixternal> though I have to admit, I can't program them damn bots at all
[05:08] <nixternal> and it seems easy enough, especially being python and what not...but I just can't come up with stuff I guess
[05:09] <tsimpson> probably because IRC is a slightly convoluted protocol
[05:12] <nixternal> that it is
[05:14] <nixternal> well that's odd...I did an 'apt-get source libgtlcore0' and then did 'debuild -nc' and it FTBFS
[05:14] <nixternal> I am willing to bet it is because of the new llvm
[05:15] <nixternal> in karmic that is
[05:20] <nixternal> ooh, I am gonna smack you JontheEchidna with a big ol' tuna from the mIRC days :p
[05:22] <JontheEchidna> what'd I do this time? :P
[05:22] <nixternal> missing file in libgtlcore :p
[05:22] <nixternal> and guess which one it is?
[05:22] <nixternal> the one that prevents me from building qt shiva :p
[05:23] <JontheEchidna> :o
[05:23] <nixternal> I will fix that one if you want me to since I already have it local
[05:23] <JontheEchidna> sure... wonder why the pbuilder hook didn't list that
[05:23] <nixternal> well, because I think it might have to do with foo.so.0.9.* in an install file
[05:23] <nixternal> because I just did a 'dh_install --list-missing --sourcedir=debian/tmp' and it tells me
[05:24]  * JontheEchidna consults the pbuilder log
[05:24] <nixternal> dh_install: libgtlcore0 missing files (debian/tmp/usr/lib/libGTLCore.so.0.9.*), aborting
[05:26] <JontheEchidna> that's it alright. gave the list-missing script a nice fatal error
[05:26] <ScottK> Fortunately it's in Universe still, so you can upload it, right?
[05:26] <nixternal> I can upload no matter where it is
[05:26] <nixternal> unless something changed to screw me out of that
[05:26] <nixternal> did something change ScottK?
[05:27] <ScottK> nixternal: First item in /topic
[05:27] <nixternal> oh
[05:27] <nixternal> haha
[05:27] <JontheEchidna> !visternal
[05:27] <nixternal> yeah it is still in uni
[05:27] <JontheEchidna> tuna reminded me :P
[05:27] <nixternal> hehe
[05:27] <nixternal> who added the MIRC?
[05:27] <JontheEchidna> no clue
[05:27] <JontheEchidna> it's been there for a while though
[05:27] <nixternal> there is a way to find out, tsimpson show us who added it :)
[05:28] <nixternal> I am guessing hobbsee, but I could very well be wrong
[05:28] <JontheEchidna> I think mirc was there before the vista -> windows7 change
[05:28] <tsimpson> you just prefix it with '-'
[05:28] <nixternal> wow
[05:28] <tsimpson> !-visternal
[05:28] <nixternal> !-visternal
[05:28] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Why is my quassel on Lucid complaining it was built without SSL support?
[05:28] <nixternal> wow, for 2 years I have been putting up with this :p
[05:28] <tsimpson> !-nixternal
[05:29] <nixternal> ahh, Tm_T you little turkey
[05:29] <nixternal> heh, just over a year ago
[05:30] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: dunno
[05:31] <nixternal> ScottK: does --list-missing not like the * in *.install files? is that why it would cause it to abort?
[05:31] <nixternal> I would like to know if maybe we are missing others
[05:32] <crimsun> an unqualified '*'? ouch.
[05:32] <nixternal> well, like:  libfoo.so.0.9.*
[05:32] <crimsun> ah
[05:32] <crimsun> no, that should be fine
[05:33] <nixternal> oh yeah, missing a few .pc files
[05:33] <JontheEchidna> technically the package should probably do .so transitions for each time the so version changes
[05:34] <JontheEchidna> unfortunately the .so version gets bumped each release. fortunately it doesn't have very many rdepends
[05:34]  * crimsun shudders at upstreams who don't care for pkg-config files -- "only Linux cares!"
[05:35] <JontheEchidna> krita would be borked if libkdcraw7 wasn't already causing it to be uninstallable
[05:35] <crimsun> not to mention people who just wander into an irc channel feeling entitled to have a k/ubuntu dev create the pc Right This Instant
[05:39] <nixternal> lex79...oh where or where could you be? :p
[06:06] <nixternal> hrmm, this gtl package isn't correct, and it wasn't correct from the get go
[06:06] <nixternal> there are actually 4 libraries in opengtl, but only 3 are packaged
[06:35] <ScottK> 4.3.90 finally built on all archs.
[06:36] <ScottK> NCommander can relax.  He just needs to fix the libtool segfault for kdelibs on armel.
[06:36] <NCommander> ScottK, working on that now.
[06:36] <ScottK> NCommander: Glad to hear it.
[06:36] <NCommander> ScottK, its low priority ATM, so no ETA
[06:36] <ScottK> NCommander: Did you see the bug I filed on it?
[06:36] <NCommander> ScottK, no
[06:36] <ScottK> Certainly.
[06:37] <ScottK> NCommander: 505579
[06:37] <ScottK> Bug 505579 even
[07:14] <Tm_T> nixternal: I did nothing!
[07:14]  * Tm_T hides
[07:47] <apachelogger> ahoy!
[07:47] <apachelogger> Mamarok: did the malloc thingy get fixed yet?
[07:51] <nixternal> whoa whoa, look who it is
[07:51] <nixternal> wasabi my lil homie?
[07:51]  * jussi01 waves to our favourite superstar
[07:52] <apachelogger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasabi_(film)
[07:52] <apachelogger> jean reno ftw! :D
[07:53] <apachelogger> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat#Kubuntu (QT)
[07:54] <apachelogger> I love how that references quicktime -.-
[07:59] <apachelogger> nixternal: https://edge.launchpad.net/plasma-applet-feedback goes to nil :(
[08:01] <nixternal> apachelogger: are you using it on karmic?
[08:01] <nixternal> works fine in lucid
[08:01] <nixternal> not meant to work in karmic, only because we don't have any karmic feedback surveys active
[08:02] <apachelogger> I mean the page goes to nil
[08:02] <nixternal> oh yeah
[08:02] <nixternal> derr
[08:02] <apachelogger> :)
[08:02] <nixternal> https://edge.launchpad.net/kubuntu-feedback-applet I think it is
[08:02] <nixternal> did you grab the url from the email?
[08:02] <apachelogger> aye
[08:03] <apachelogger> replying with proper url
[08:03] <nixternal> yeah, we figured it out in here and an update never made it back to the list
[08:03] <nixternal> thanks
[08:03]  * Lure does not know why Alpha2 live-cd works, while installed system does not get X started in VBOX... :-(
[08:09] <freeflying> I'm wondering is ichthux-desktop still being developed
[08:16] <apachelogger> mhhh
[08:16] <apachelogger> nixternal: I like it when you replace python with cpp :D
[08:20] <nixternal> apachelogger: everyone does, well except for the Ubuntu side :)
[08:22] <Tm_T> nixternal: why not mono?
[08:23] <nixternal> I do not know c#
[08:25] <Tm_T> nixternal: actually I find that relieving information
[08:25] <Tm_T> f
[08:26] <nixternal> hehe
[08:26] <Tm_T> bah, I cannot tpye, no coffee yet
[08:26]  * genii slides Tm_T a Kubuntu mug of coffee
[08:30] <apachelogger> uhh, coffee
[08:31] <apachelogger> oh dear, tonight is a talk on open source licences at the university
[08:31] <apachelogger> must go, maybe then I will understand why people relicense to BSD :P
[08:34] <nixternal> BSD is a good license, that's why
[08:34] <nixternal> I think a lot are also doing it to spite GPL3
[08:39]  * Sput doesn't like licenses that allow others to steal from me
[08:43] <Tm_T> Sput: depends on what you mean by "stealing" (:
[08:43] <Sput> Tm_T: yeah, that's the fundamental difference between the BSD and GPL camps :)
[08:43] <Tm_T> Sput: glad I'm not in either
[08:44] <Sput> I'm not willing to allow anyone to take my work, close it down and benefit from it without giving back
[08:53] <apachelogger> nixternal: I am not sure we can do anything about the excessive use of UNRELEASED, other than asking people to not do it
[08:54] <apachelogger> though this probably comes from lack of sponsor or something, which could be solved by having one sponsor on-duty everytime
[09:04] <agateau> Do you know if alpha2 cd can be used to install from scratch (as opposed to latest daily images)?
[09:04] <agateau> alpha2 starts here, but ubiquity does not :/
[09:04] <agateau> err alpha1
[09:17] <nixternal> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libqtgtl  <- revu that badboy, approve that badboy, then upload that badboy :)  we need it for koffice2
[09:17] <nixternal> ScottK, apachelogger, Riddell ^^
[09:19] <nixternal> on that note, I am going to bed...have to get up for a meeting at 11:00 :)
[09:19] <nixternal> g'nite all
[09:19] <nixternal> actually it is 03:19 in the morning here, so g'morning too :)
[09:24] <apachelogger> nixternal: if only it was uploadable :P
[09:58] <wstephenson> hi there
[09:58] <wstephenson> i'm working on some cross-platform kde packaging docs
[09:58] <wstephenson> is there a tool for updating debian.changes?
[10:02] <amichair> wstephenson: there's dch, if that's what u mean
[10:02] <amichair> apachelogger: welcome back! :-)
[10:04] <wstephenson> amichair: yes, that's the one
[10:33] <agateau> Riddell: ScottK: how does one investigate ubiquity not starting?
[10:33] <agateau> (i386 alpha1 iso in Virtual Box)
[10:45] <Riddell> agateau: logs are in /var/log/installer
[10:45] <Riddell> and /var/log/syslog
[10:45] <agateau> Riddell: ok, restarting my vbox
[10:45] <agateau> Riddell: did you get a chance to test a2 iso?
[10:45] <agateau> does it boot?
[10:46] <Mamarok> apachelogger: hey! Yeah, they patched glib, finally :)
[10:46] <Riddell> agateau: yes alpha 2 candidates do seem to be working, I'd use those over alpha 1 which is pretty old now
[10:46] <Riddell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/20100113/
[10:46] <agateau> Riddell: ok
[10:46] <Riddell> Mamarok: hassle us enough and we do listen to you :)
[11:11] <Lure> agateau: a2 i386 candidate live-cd worked in my vbox nicely, including install
[11:11] <Lure> agateau: only problem is X server is crashing after install :-(
[11:11] <agateau> Lure: ok thanks
[11:12] <agateau> mmm annoying
[11:12] <Lure> agateau: it crashes with slightly different backtrace depending on wether I have vbox tools installed or not
[11:44] <Mamarok> Riddell: don't worry, I am good at that, and can be very annoying :)
[11:48] <davmor2> Mamarok: hands off that's my job
[11:50] <Mamarok> davmor2: I am older than you, I come first ;)
[11:51] <davmor2> Mamarok: why how old are you?
[11:51]  * Riddell fears there may be some social protocol which applies here
[11:52] <Mamarok> davmor2: how old are you?
[11:53] <davmor2> 36
[11:53] <davmor2> Riddell: no surely not
[11:53] <Mamarok> oh my, young padawan :) I am definitely older :)
[11:54] <Riddell> Mamarok: you don't look a day over 21 to me
[11:54] <ghostcube> o.O
[11:54] <davmor2> Riddell: don't we just fight it out till there is only one left standing :)
[11:54] <Mamarok> Riddell: are you allowed to lie?
[11:54] <ghostcube> sure he is :D
[11:54] <Mamarok> davmor2: I turned 50 last year :)
[11:54] <Mamarok> and counting
[11:54] <ghostcube> :O
[11:55] <Mamarok> trying to beat the family record of 95, so beware :)
[11:55] <davmor2> Mamarok: Okay I'll give you the edge on that one :)
[11:56] <davmor2> Mamarok: I'll cut you a deal you get to annoy Riddell the rest are mine muhahahahaha
[11:56] <Mamarok> Riddell: you would have said 40 I might even have believed you ;)
[11:57] <Mamarok> davmor2: but one has to be insistent, especially when asking the core-devs to patch something
[11:58] <davmor2> Mamarok: I know I just break everything so they have something to fix :)
[11:58] <Mamarok> and have good arguments ("half of KDE is crashing", "Risks to be exploited", etc.)
[12:00] <ScottK> Riddell: ibus-qt still uses icu40.  It look like a rebuild is all that's needed and could get you a significant size saving.
[12:00]  * ScottK is going to take a nap, so I'll leave it to you do decide.
[12:02] <Riddell> I'd rather not respin, CD size isn't my biggest concern with this release and we have testers
[12:02] <Riddell> I'd just be happy if X didn't break on both my machines :(
[12:03] <Riddell> also ibus-qt4 depends on libicu42
[12:05] <Riddell> there's no libicu40 in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/kubuntu.lucid/kubuntu-common
[12:05] <Riddell> nor in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/20100113/lucid-desktop-i386.manifest
[12:50] <hunger_t> alpha release comes around and all of a sudden my boot splash vanishes and the keymapping during passphrase entry for cryptsetup breaks:-/
[13:13] <ScottK> OK, Nevermind then.
[13:15] <ScottK> FYI, we have usb-creator.exe (Windows version) on both Kubuntu Netbook and the Kubuntu DvD now.
[13:18] <Quintasan> \o
[13:18] <ScottK> nixternal: It'd be hand if you'd fire up the powerpc box sometime today (no rush).
[13:33] <freeflying> Riddell: if you can drop ttf-arphic-uming and ttf-wqy-zenhei, and pull in ttf-wqy-microhei, you will have at least 10M space :)
[13:58] <maco> hunger_t: because of the change to plymouth, usplash is being removed from all *buntus
[13:58] <hunger_t> maco: Yeap, noticed that. But unfortunately plymoth is not installed:-(
[13:59] <maco> doh!
[14:02] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: ping
[14:03] <agateau> Riddell: the kdebase-workspace patch for dbusmenu is too old here, it does not match with the kdelibs one :/
[14:04] <Riddell> agateau: waa, it's the most recent one you sent me
[14:04] <Riddell> freeflying: that's useful
[14:05] <agateau> Riddell: it seems it's not (but then I am guilty for sending incomplete patches)
[14:05] <agateau> Riddell: the kdebase-workspace patch is not the 20100111 one
[14:05] <agateau> Riddell: you can see the difference if you search for "Menu" (with the quotes)
[14:06] <freeflying> Riddell: btw, didn't see you upload qt :)
[14:08] <Riddell> agateau: it should be kdebase-dbusmenu-4.3.90-20100111.diff
[14:08]  * Riddell checks
[14:08]  * agateau checks his install is not outdated
[14:11] <Riddell> agateau: hmm you're right, it's not that version
[14:11] <Riddell> sorry about that
[14:11] <agateau> good news is it should not prevent kde apps from showing up correctly on the gnome side
[14:11] <agateau> :)
[14:12] <agateau> so Mark should be happy nevertheless
[14:13] <Riddell> agateau: fixed in bzr
[14:13] <agateau> Riddell: I have a mini sprint tomorrow, do you think this can get in by then?
[14:14] <Quintasan> Bug #506870 is there a known solution to this? The reporter says he added plasma-desktop to Autostart within KDE
[14:18] <Riddell> agateau: not until after alpha 2 is out which is sometime tomorrow
[14:18] <Riddell> agateau: I can put packages in a PPA if you need them sooner
[14:18] <agateau> Riddell: would be great!
[14:25] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: pong
[14:25] <apachelogger> amichair: thanks
[14:25] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: ahoy, wanted to talk about kubuntu-firefox-installer a bit
[14:26] <apachelogger> Mamarok: groovy
[14:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: shoot
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> dunno if you have gathered, but with KDE 4.4 we are finding ourselves with an oversized CD. Seems that everything in KDE has grown a bit. (15 MB over on i386)
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> currently kubuntu-firefox-installer's ruby deps bring in ~3MB of archives to the CD
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> would you be opposed to a c++ port?
[14:27] <apachelogger> nope, I just would not maintain it :P
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> also, I think we could run "kpackagekit --install-package-name firefox" rather than install-package at this point in time
[14:28]  * apachelogger also reminds that kcalc is still smaller than speedcrunch
[14:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: if it looks decent enough
[14:29] <apachelogger> last time I checked it was even more horrible than install-package
[14:29] <Riddell> freeflying: hmm, I thought I had uploaded qt but the archives disagree with me
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> the dialog has a bit too many new windows pop up while it does stuff, but I have heard that 0.5 removes a few of those
[14:30] <freeflying> Riddell: for my patches? :)
[14:31] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: would I also be right in assuming that the only reason kpackagekit has to start with kdesudo is for install-package?
[14:31] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, I am also all for getting rid of install-package, no news there :)
[14:31] <Riddell> freeflying: yes it's all in the bzr archive but seemed it never went into the ubuntu archive, sorry about that, will do it after alpha 2
[14:31] <freeflying> Riddell: its ok, hope it can land into archive for lucid release :)
[14:31] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: s/kpackagekit/firefox installer ... yes
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> oops
[14:32] <apachelogger> makes more sense to the user to get told "oh my, kubuntu firefox installer wants to break your system", than "oh my, package installer wants to break your system"
[14:32] <apachelogger> since latter cannot hold a more precise property of what is going to be installed anyway
[14:33] <apachelogger> while it is rather obvious with the former
[14:33] <apachelogger> that was the thinking behind that :)
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> kpackagekit fail, doesn't install ubufox
[14:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: it should install firefox + firefox-gnome-support, no ubufox
[14:35] <Riddell> freeflying: ttf-wqy-zenhei is in the platform seed, I should replace it with ttf-wqy-microhei ?
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: install-package installs ubufox
[14:35] <apachelogger> oh gross
[14:36] <apachelogger> in that case I suppose packagekit does not install them fine recommends or something
[14:36] <Riddell> it really ought to
[14:36] <Riddell> poke glatzor
[14:37] <freeflying> Riddell: Arne think the quality of microhei is not that nice as zenhei
[14:37] <Riddell> freeflying: but you disagree?
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: aha, firefox-3.5 only suggests firefox-gnome-support
[14:38] <freeflying> Riddell: for me, its ok for livecd, eventually, we will let users install zenhei and uming when they choose chinese
[14:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: when you reach him, you could also mention that I sent him a patch weeks ago, which apparently he never pushed to the pk master branch
[14:38] <Riddell> mm, 2.3MB vs 13MB
[14:39] <freeflying> Riddell: considerable :)
[14:39] <Riddell> very
[14:39] <freeflying> Riddell: anyway, do we have chance to switch back after alpha3?
[14:40] <Riddell> freeflying: yes
[14:40] <freeflying> Riddell: so, I'd recommend you give it a try
[15:18] <Quintasan> Man, something's not right with me, listening to Tschakovsky - The Seasons
[15:24] <genii> Quintasan: Classical and jazz are nice to work to
[15:26] <Mamarok> Quintasan: Tchaikovsky you mean :) Piano?
[15:26]  * Mamarok is listening to Piano Concerto No.9 in E-flat, K271 "Jeunehomme" - 2. Andantino by Clara Haskil on Clara Haskil - The Legacy - Recordings 1951-1960 [Amarok2]
[15:26] <Mamarok> gah, Mozart, not Haskil, of course
[15:28] <apachelogger> kubotu: help spotify
[15:28] <Quintasan> Mamarok: yeah :D
[15:28] <kubotu> spotify plugin - usage: spotify <spotify>, spotify artist <artist>, spotify album <album>
[15:29] <apachelogger> kubotu: google spotyify
[15:29] <kubotu> Results for spotyify: 1. Spotify – A world of music: http://spotify.com/ | 2. Spotify - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify | 3. is spotyify just a wind-up ?: http://getsatisfaction.com/spotify/topics/is_spotyify_just_a_wind_up
[15:31] <apachelogger> kubotu: np
[15:31] <kubotu> apachelogger listened to "BirdyClip" by Nokom electro 12 minutes ago; -- see http://www.last.fm/user/apachelogger for more
[15:32] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna, apachelogger: mind taking a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=7373 before I upload?
[15:32] <Mamarok> oh, kubotu can do that, too?
[15:32] <Mamarok> kubotu: np
[15:32] <kubotu> Mamarok listened to "You Always Walk Alone" by Helloween [Keeper of the Seven Keys (Part 2), 1992] 2 days ago; [http://open.spotify.com/track/0FvwG5Y6oThKHTsnG8NIv7] -- see http://www.last.fm/user/Mamarok for more
[15:33] <Mamarok> grr...
[15:33] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: consider using source format 3.0 so that you don't have to repack the tarball
[15:34] <JontheEchidna> also consider using the dh7 short-style rules with the kde addon in debian/rules
[15:34] <apachelogger> Quintasan: ./lyricswidget.cpp: LGPL
[15:34] <apachelogger> ./lyricswidget.h: LGPL
[15:34] <Quintasan> hurr durr
[15:34] <apachelogger> complete copy missing
[15:35] <apachelogger> not mentioned in debian/copyright either
[15:35] <JontheEchidna> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/yawp <- #3 and #4 apply here
[15:35] <JontheEchidna> (a second revu for that would be nice)
[15:35] <Quintasan> apachelogger: can I add it manually or I need to annoy upstream?
[15:35] <nixternal> ScottK: ppc box firing up
[15:37] <apachelogger> Quintasan: you can add it manually but need to annoy upstream eitherway
[15:37] <Quintasan> shall I also bump Standards-Version?
[15:38] <apachelogger> can do
[15:38] <apachelogger> Quintasan: also, it would be nice if the build-depends line would not exceed 80 chars/line
[15:38] <JontheEchidna> debhelper version and compat need bumped to 7
[15:41] <apachelogger> btw, I am porting fluffy bunny to 4.4 :P http://aplg.kollide.net/images/static/fluffy-bunny-0.2.jpeg
[15:41] <JontheEchidna> it has been missed :D
[15:41] <davmor2> apachelogger: Ah I'm blind
[15:41] <apachelogger> :P
[15:42] <apachelogger> one can also combine it with the kopete bunny theme http://imagebin.ca/view/fkShno.html
[15:42] <genii> apachelogger: My gf is gonna leave me for you. Right now i have her netbook runing a custom HelloKitty theme thats really similar to that
[15:43]  * genii sips and overdoses on pink
[15:43] <apachelogger> =)
[15:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: yawp has a license and watch file issue :S
[15:50] <Quintasan> apachelogger: do I need to add LGPL header for that file or it's enough if I mention where this file can be found?
[15:52] <apachelogger> Quintasan: adding the head is usually a good idea
[15:52] <apachelogger> header even
[15:53] <nixternal> apachelogger: plenty of packages don't have a complete copy of the license...and every tarball released by the opengtl project does not have a license...and repacking the tarball for just a license is typically not done
[15:53] <Quintasan> okay, once upstream responds on the LGPL issue I will upload
[15:54] <apachelogger> nixternal: well, from my POV the package is not licensed in a valid manner, making it non-redistributable for us
[15:55] <apachelogger> though I might be tought otherwise in 1.5 hours ;)
[15:55]  * apachelogger likes useful talks at the university
[15:55] <nixternal> debian policy doesn't state that it makes it non-redistributable...I looked long and hard last night for documentation that would state just that
[15:56] <apachelogger> that is unrelated to debian
[15:56] <apachelogger> to properly license your work as GFDL, GPL, LGPL you need to ship a complete copy of the license, since that is a requirement of the license itself
[15:57] <apachelogger> hence without complete copy, I would argue that it is non-free software
[15:57] <apachelogger> since it is not properly licensed and thus might not hold up in court or something
[15:57] <apachelogger> then again I am no license guru
[16:04] <nixternal> apachelogger: ok, contacted upstream (CyrilleB) about it
[16:05] <nixternal> apachelogger: so, because we have other packages w/o this file, I think it is fine and you should approve it, of course after the debian/copyright fix
[16:05] <nixternal> as far as the changelog goes, it is an initial release, that's all that matters :p
[16:06] <apachelogger> well, the archive admins will have to decide on whether it is ok or not anyway :P
[16:08] <nixternal> apachelogger: I will make sure Riddell takes care of it :p  he has at least one package from opengtl that he did that is in the same exact boat
[16:08] <apachelogger> okies :D
[16:09] <nixternal> stupid dh_make boilerplates
[16:17] <apachelogger> nixternal: so true :|
[16:17] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: whatever happened to letz-make-software-properties-a-kcm?
[16:18] <JontheEchidna> needs-moar-policykit
[16:18] <nixternal> apachelogger: I think I am going to go ahead and repack the tarball to include the license...I googled 'repack tarball for copying license' and there are quite a few hits on this, not only for Ubuntu and Debian, but also Fedora :)
[16:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: any progress on that?
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I haven't touched it since that screenshot I showed you. it's still in bzr tho
[16:28] <apachelogger> omg
[16:28] <apachelogger> :D
[16:28] <JontheEchidna> http://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/software-properties/software-properties-kcm
[16:34] <nixternal> apachelogger: take that back, you cannot repackage a tarball for a license, only upstream can do it...and you can't ship a package w/o it like you said...so it is a no go in hopes that upstream will include it
[16:35] <nixternal> so, libqtgtl is out of the question, and because of that, opengtl needs to be removed
[16:36] <nixternal> I take that back...opengtl does have a copying file
[16:36] <nixternal> wtf package was I looking at that didn't have a copyright file
[16:40] <nixternal> 35 minutes Cyrille Berger add COPYING file
[16:40] <nixternal> hahahaha, I just looked at libqtgtl's HG repo and that was the last commit message :)
[16:52] <nixternal> to bad it is the wrong license, library instead of lesser
[16:53] <Riddell> nixternal: what are you going to make sure I take care of?
[16:54] <nixternal> nothing now :)
[16:54] <nixternal> the first rule of what I said previously, is you don't talk about what I said previously :p
[16:57] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: ooh!
[16:57] <Riddell> oh, months old
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> yeah, it needs a bit of merging love for all of amichai's fixes
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> still works as well as it did though
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> which is not to great, but it shows up in systemsettings
[17:00] <JontheEchidna> plus you have to run it as root to do anything
[17:05] <verbalshadow> how do i stop kdm from loading twice?
[17:05] <davmor2> verbalshadow: just close your eyes the firsttime
[17:06] <nixternal> verbalshadow: you mean login twice?
[17:06] <verbalshadow> davmor2 that works until it crashes/freeze
[17:06] <verbalshadow> nixternal yes
[17:07] <nixternal> it is known...no fix as of yet though on it
[17:07] <verbalshadow> i have video do i need to drop it in a bug report
[17:07] <nixternal> are you using karmic or lucid?
[17:07] <verbalshadow> lucid
[17:07] <nixternal> I only experience it on lucid and not karmic
[17:07] <nixternal> yeah..you are able to login though successfully on the 2nd attempt correct?
[17:08] <verbalshadow> it crashes me on kernel newer than -7
[17:08] <nixternal> hrmm
[17:09] <nixternal> do you get any crash dialog?
[17:10] <verbalshadow> if i boot to commandline and run 'sudo kdm' manually i get no crash and only one login prompt
[17:11] <nixternal> how about if you run:   sudo start kdm
[17:11] <verbalshadow> nixternal no i get graphics corruption white "scanlines"
[17:11] <nixternal> that sounds like what I was experiencing yesterday, until I reformatted and reinstalled
[17:12] <nixternal> do you get any type of corruption prior to kdm coming up? like the ubuntu splash
[17:13] <verbalshadow> in kernels older than -10 in did, now i get the ubuntu splash
[17:14] <nixternal> it sounds like the same problem I had yesterday before I r&r'd the machine for iso testing
[17:14] <nixternal> it was also happening with my ubuntu desktop as well
[17:14] <nixternal> so I wonder if it might be related to the mesa changes, or something else I didn't catch in regards to video stuff
[17:15] <verbalshadow> so the ubiquity installer is working again? last i tried it was broken at the partitioning phase
[17:17] <verbalshadow> anyway i will test 'sudo start kdm' and if that gets me the crash i will wipe and re-install
[17:20] <nixternal> verbalshadow: yeah, I couldn't figure that problem out yesterday
[17:20] <nixternal> though I didn't try 'sudo kdm' or 'sudo start kdm'
[17:20] <nixternal> which is odd, seeing as I couldn't even get to tty once the corruption started
[17:20] <nixternal> then eventually the machine would just freeze, as ctrl+alt+del wouldn't do anything either
[17:21] <verbalshadow> well that will let us know if in the upstart scripts
[17:21] <verbalshadow> and neither would REISUB
[17:22] <nixternal> wtf is the difference here, LGPL meaning either Library or Lesser?
[17:23] <nixternal> I click on different LGPL links on gnu.org I get different licenses with the same name...oh that is so annoying
[17:24] <nixternal> silly, 2.0 to 2.1 switch
[17:24] <apachelogger> nixternal: depends on the version I suppose, at some point it was renamed
[17:24] <nixternal> you would think that a name change would be a major release and not a minor
[17:24] <Tm_T> nixternal: indeed, lovely that is
[17:24] <nixternal> 2.0 was Library, >= 2.1 is Lesser
[17:24] <verbalshadow> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/lgpl.html
[17:25] <apachelogger> oh dear, gotta run
[17:25] <nixternal> apachelogger: that is why people are using BSD licenses, because they don't change their names in minor releases :p
[17:26] <verbalshadow> nixternal that least the has the same acronym LGPL :)
[17:30] <verbalshadow> i love zsync
[17:30] <nixternal> hehe, but when source headers state Lesser and your COPYING states Library...that won't work
[17:38] <Riddell> nixternal: I had the licence policy for KDE use LGPL 2.1 just so there wasn't any unclarity over the name
[17:39] <Riddell> random e-mail of the day "I want to know do kubuntu 8.10 supports debian programming too?"
[17:40] <nixternal> nice
[17:43] <Riddell> nixternal: BSD really isn't any clearer about its intentions
[17:43] <Riddell> "Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer." which copyright notice, the one about The Regents of the University of California?  what if it's not copyright by them
[17:44] <Riddell> if it must contain the list of conditions what does that mean to any proprietary software added to it?
[17:49] <nixternal> yeah, licensing is a pita
[17:58] <Riddell> I find legal stuff an interesting technical problem, like with programming you have to write it in such a way that it covers every eventuality
[18:02] <NCommander> ScottK, kdelibs properly built on 127.0.01, and when I hit retry on the buildd, it failed in another place
[18:02] <NCommander> ughhhhhhhhh
[18:24] <ScottK> NCommander: Ouch.  Still a libtool segfault or something else even more painful?
[18:25] <ScottK> nixternal: Thanks.
[18:25] <NCommander> ScottK, not sure.
[18:25] <NCommander> ScottK, retrying in a clean pbuilder on 127.0.0.1, but this might be one of those packages that we keep poking retry until it builds
[18:25] <ScottK> nixternal: If there is some indication of what licensing upstream intends, you can repack the tarball to include the full text.
[18:26] <ScottK> NCommander: OK.  Now's a good time.  buildd's aren't very busy.
[18:26] <NCommander> ScottK, I'll know in a few hours if I get a successful build
[18:30] <ScottK> ;-)
[18:40] <ScottK> crimsun: Figured out why pulseaudio failed to build on powerpc.  libtdb-dev is in universe there.
[18:42] <nixternal> ScottK: I asked persia and he said no in the case of *GPL*
[18:42] <ScottK> Odd.  I don't understand why that would be.
[18:45] <nixternal> [01/13/10][10:31:22][   persia] You specifically can't repackage a tarball to include COPYING/License.
[18:45] <nixternal> [01/13/10][10:31:28][   persia] It may only be included by upstream.
[18:46] <nixternal> [01/13/10][10:33:39][   persia] If upstream doesn't license stuff to you properly, you're not in a good position to license it to Ubuntu.
[18:47] <ScottK> If upstream says GPL v2 or later in the code, but neglects to include COPYING, you most certainly can.
[18:48] <nixternal> upstream has LPGPL 2 and LGPL 2+...the 2+ is only in 2 files
[18:49] <nixternal> ScottK: is there a policy document or anything that specifies you can include it in a repack?
[18:49] <nixternal> I have searched high and low, and it seems it is in a gray area
[18:49] <ScottK> It is a gray area.
[18:49] <nixternal> I have one saying no and one saying yes, and 0 documention to support either claim
[18:49] <nixternal> that's what I figured
[18:50] <nixternal> I will just repack it then and be done with it for this release
[18:50]  * ScottK points out one of those people is an archive admin and the other isn't.
[18:50]  * nixternal points out neither has provided documentation to validate their side :p
[18:50] <nixternal> silly gray matter
[18:50] <nixternal> oh wait, that's brain stuff :)
[18:51] <nixternal> right now I am gonna eat cuz I am hungry
[18:52] <maco> nixternal: what is this, identi.ca?
[18:53] <ScottK> nixternal: Here's an example: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/libnet-dns-resolver-programmable-perl/0.002.2-0ubuntu1
[18:53] <ScottK> (my very first package in the Ubuntu archive got rejected for lack of COPYING file by Mithrandir and this is how I fixed it)
[18:54] <ScottK> Good enough?
[18:54] <nixternal> there you go, you provided me with some proof for the win :)
[18:54] <nixternal> thanks
[18:57] <ScottK> That one was particularly fun since "same terms as Perl" is GPL v1 and later plus artistic, but we rely on GPL v2, so I had to add three licenses.
[18:57] <ScottK> The license files were longer than the program I think.
[19:12] <markey> re
[19:12] <markey> hm, after some of the latest Karmic updates, Phonon insists on using PulseAudio again
[19:12] <markey> it disabled direct access to my soundcard
[19:12] <markey> (this had worked before)
[19:13] <markey> anyone got an idea about that?
[19:13] <markey> (I dislike PA)
[19:13] <ScottK> Remove it?
[19:16] <verbalshadow> nixternal i get the white scanlines (and hardlock) for me after login even on the lastest ISO
[21:28] <genii> status
[21:29]  * genii grumbles something about more coffee
[21:54] <nixternal> verbalshadow: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-January/029970.html  <- could that be related to your problem? I have Intel so it may have been related to my problem
[22:31] <davmor2> Riddell: is there any reason why kubuntu boots with the ubuntu plymouth logo?
[22:32] <ScottK> davmor2: Because no one has done a Kubuntu one yet.
[22:32] <ScottK> It wouldn't hurt to have a bug on that.
[22:32] <ScottK> (as a reminder).
[22:32] <davmor2> ScottK: no probs
[22:33] <davmor2> ScottK: please tell me the back drop is plain blue
[22:34] <ScottK> shtylman is our design guru.
[22:35] <davmor2> ScottK: I'm just concerned that there was an nice checker board effect on login but now I'm on the desktop it's plain blue and I'm hoping it's meant to be :)
[22:35] <ScottK> it's not clear to me yet.
[22:35] <ScottK> The checkerboard thing is what upstream is using.  We're feeling somewhat motivated to find an alternative.
[22:36] <Riddell> I think upstream are doing that for us
[22:37] <davmor2> Riddell: should the FF installer not be under web?
[22:38] <Riddell> where is it?
[22:39] <neversfelde> btw. we have the classification in groups in "Internet" again in 4.3.90 for Karmic
[22:39] <davmor2> Riddell: it's under internet but that has been split into folders the top one being web which is where feed reader and web browser are
[22:40] <neversfelde> :)
[22:40] <Riddell> ug, sub menus should die
[22:42] <davmor2> Riddell: do you make usage of the ~/Downloads folder by default?
[22:43] <neversfelde> Riddell: if no one else does, I can have a look at it on monday, when I get my connection to the internet back
[22:44] <Riddell> neversfelde: you're connecting with your mind now?
[22:44] <Riddell> davmor2: some apps do
[22:44] <neversfelde> Riddell: still mobile connection and I cannot download anything anymore, too slow
[22:45] <davmor2> Riddell: does that not make the idea of pointing folderview at the ~/desktop a bit strange now then?  Would it not be better to use ~/ itself instead?
[22:45] <Riddell> I can turn on my back room server for ssh access in such situations
[22:45] <Riddell> davmor2: default folders are a bit of a mess
[22:46] <davmor2> Riddell: ah okay
[23:14] <crimsun> ScottK: wasn't it promoted for all arches?