[00:12] who's good at proofreading? [00:12] nixternal must be, docs and aa that [00:12] nixternal: how does this read? http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/interview [00:19] Holy side-scroll batman [00:20] Tools -> Word Wrap Document (in Kate) [00:22] Riddell: One typo so far: "Most uses will have no idea ..." / "Most users will have no idea ..." [00:22] nixternal: you about? [00:24] Riddell: Somewhere in there there was a reference to you as the leader of the project. I think that would be a good time to talk about the Kubuntu Council and how Kubuntu is community run. [00:25] (that's another way Kubuntu is different than Ubuntu, BTW) [00:25] IMO we get both less financial support and less management from Canonical and I'm good with that. [00:27] good idea, although I don't think it mentions anything about leaders [00:28] It could use some commas here and there [00:30] genii: diff appreciated :) [00:32] OK, gimme a few minutes === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [00:50] JontheEchidna: you don't need to "include /usr/lib/kubuntu-desktop-i18n/debhelper/kubuntu.mk" now with debhelper 7, I got it to generate .pot files without that [00:51] JontheEchidna: we should do a backport or kcm-touchpad to karmic so we can try and convince seele or one of her minions to do a UI review [00:51] seele doesnt have virtualbox? [00:52] maybe, not sure [00:52] Riddell: http://pastebin.com/f4ca33fb8 [00:53] 2-3 typos corrected as well [00:53] lovely, thanks genii [00:53] np [01:01] JontheEchidna: W: kcm-touchpad: extra-license-file usr/share/doc/kcm_touchpad/LICENSE.gz [01:01] not very important but no point wasting disk space I guess [01:21] Riddell: neat, nice to know about kubuntu.mk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [01:51] KDE 4.3.4 for karmic-backports is finally finished building on IA64 (Sparc not yet done). [01:52] It's been a lllllong time since I uploaded that. [01:55] I find it difficult to imagine someone on an Itanium box using (K)ubuntu :) [01:56] heh, I do have access to an itanic [01:58] genii: Proabaly not, but I've seen at least one bug in Karmic filed against an IA64 package and it was a gui package(IIRC) [01:58] So who knows. [01:58] Riddell: sorry, readin it now [01:58] DarkwingDuck: yo yo [02:05] Riddell: I think all of the typos have been pointed out to you...looks good [02:06] Riddell: is that the refreshed version with corrections? [02:08] e.g., "The lastest LTS 8.04" ? [02:08] doesn't seem to be updated yet, as I still see the "uses" instead of "users" typo [02:28] Hey nixternal, I got both systems back now. [02:29] Full time. [02:29] I have some docs to finish up. When are we sending stuff to the translators? [02:31] nixternal: Was also "manor" as opposed to "manner" [02:33] How are the current ISOs working with Plymouth? [02:34] if KMS works and if you don't use ciphered lvm /, then it should be okay [02:34] in other words, it fails utterly for my use cases [02:34] Nice [02:35] the boot itself is fine; I just enter my passphrases blindly and hope that I don't fatfinger [02:35] tseliot mentioned that he was looking at it [02:37] OK. [02:43] plymouth worked fine for me, with the exception of the progress bar never showing up [02:52] DarkwingDuck: that gets done automatically [02:52] ScottK: they seem to be working fine, re: isos/plymouth [02:53] I got the bar to show once JontheEchidna...it was corrupted looking, but it still showed :) [02:53] OK. [02:53] Riddell: libspnav uploaded for ya [02:53] same here, once [02:54] no corruption though [02:54] what did I do today? I didn't get a damn thing done that was on my todo list [02:54] oh, iso's [02:55] Go do some MIRs then. Quick. You got 3 hours [02:55] Spent time making todo lists? ;) [03:01] 3 hours for what? [03:01] I make my todo list on the fly with my trusty pen and notepad :) [03:02] nixternal: 3 hours until your out of today to have done something today [03:02] I have 1 hour [03:02] actually, 58 minutes [03:02] Why? [03:02] never mind [03:02] my plasma panel froze on my desktop and says "23:02" [03:03] must have froze last night [03:03] Heh [03:03] oh wow, it froze 3 days ago [03:03] lol [03:03] 23:02 - Sat, 9 Jan [03:04] I have to leave it running, because if I shut it down, there is a good chance it will not start back up [03:06] Nice [03:08] using bzr to merge is /hard/ [03:08] * crimsun shakes his cane [03:08] Even when it goes smoothly, it's more work [03:08] I mean, I still have to merge by hand to verify it [03:09] (and by that point, what's the point?) [03:09] crimsun: Clearly you don't understand the wonders of dvcs. It's clearly superior [03:11] younguns with their newfangled shiny [03:12] crimsun: it isn't hard, it just isn't as efficient as to the ways we are used to [03:13] nixternal: perhaps. For people who used MoM, the bzr merge way is still pretty rough. For people who merged by hand, it's pretty noisy. [03:13] for instance: instead of MoM doing it all for us, like for instance merging the changelog, we now get to do that by hand, and thankfully there are plenty of ==== oh this is messed up and <<<<<<< tree foo [03:14] I used kdiff for my merges by hand, it was really nice as it gave me A, B, and C...A is the old, B is the new, and C is the combination [03:14] I mean, I /think/ the goal is to be able to click an icon and have the merge done [03:14] scary goal, but yes I feel that is the goal as well [03:14] AFAICT the current incarnation of the system is incapable of ever getting the debian/changelog merge done. [03:14] so people who can click a hyperlink can become core developers [03:15] Even scarier is then you commit the branch and it builds the package. [03:15] ScottK: I thought there was work being done with merge-package that fixes the changelog [03:15] yeah, which I have to remember [03:15] nixternal: No doubt. That's why I said current. [03:17] because I keep dput'ing the package and forgetting to do bzr mark-uploaded [03:17] nixternal: Why bother? [03:17] It'll just get pulled from the upload anyway. [03:17] that way there a build isn't attempted after pushing it I guess [03:18] The push the branch and then build from it isn't implemented yet. [03:18] oh, thought it was [03:18] Personally, I've just rm'ed the branch after I dput. [03:20] All of 4.3.90 is built on powerpc now too. [03:21] ooh, just realized that machine was turned off...I blew a circuit today...need me to start it up for you? [03:22] Not now. [03:29] It seems vaguely cannabalistic to be making the usb boot stick that I'm going to overwrite my current netbook install with from the netbook. [03:35] Maybe it's been this way all along and i never noticed, by the USB stick got mounted owned by the 'disk' and not my user. [03:35] Known bug? Design choice? [03:41] dude, findgraphicsmagick.cmake in koffice does not freakin' work, and I can't figure out why...I have every damn package belonging to graphicsmagick and imagemagick installed === verbalshadow_ is now known as verbalshadow [04:22] Lucid seems wicked fast. [04:24] I will have to agree with that statement [04:24] koffice is kicking my ass [04:25] I got it down to must missing 3 deps... Create Resources (which is in our repos but doesn't seem to get picked up by cmakelists), QtShiva which I can't get my head around and isn't in our repos, and GraphicsMagick which I don't care what I install, it doesn't get recognized [04:27] Riddell: it's on my todo list but only happens after i get through all my interview crap [04:27] Riddell: and i have virtualbox :P [04:27] that was me that asked that [04:30] Riddell: "also promoting the user of social networking" s/user/use/ [04:32] Riddell: also " We have less paid developers" s/less/fewer/ [04:33] QtShiva seems to be some sub-part of openctl/opengtl [04:36] Riddell: "We won't be shipping with Firefox unless is suddenly" s/is/it/ [04:37] Riddell: "patches for Firefox, however these" s/, however/; however,/ [04:40] goodness the person who wrote the questions made a lot of typos [04:40] * JontheEchidna always did merges by hand with Kate [04:40] Still do, too [04:40] But if bzr merging is all conflict resolving... do not want [04:42] I like just doing the thing by hand rather than appeasing an uncaring, cruel vcs without messing up [04:43] ...but maybe this is all because I didn't read on how to resolve bzr conflicts properly when I forgot to pull packaging branches before committing my work [04:44] I think I know how to do that properly now, but in the past I basically had to baleet the whole local bzr branch and branch it again [04:45] genii: yes it is, but it will not build because it says gtl core isn't installed, when it is, and it is up to date thanks to JontheEchidna :) [04:47] fix conflicts by hand, bzr resolve, then do bzr conflicts to see if you got them all :) [04:47] meh, I'll start doing bzr merges when I have to. I got my system pretty well down in the meantime [04:47] nixternal: http://www.opengtl.org/Download.html seems to indicate that QtShiva was incorporated now into libQtGTL [04:49] libgtlcore0 has /usr/lib/libOpenShiva.so.0.6 too [04:49] right, I am trying to build libQtGtl and it will not go [04:49] I thought we had qtshiva since before 4.2 [04:50] where is it? [04:50] yay for confusing library names [04:50] there is no QtShiva.pc files located anywhere in the archive [04:51] * vorian is looking [04:51] according to http://www.opengtl.org/Download.html there's also an example app with the same name, QtShive :S [04:52] strangely though, since you said that vorian, I kind of remember a similar conversation in the past [04:52] yup [04:52] yeah, that opengtl website sucks [04:52] 1/save [04:52] naming an app after a library is bad practice [04:53] heh, that pegs alot of the apps in various kde apps [04:54] pfft [04:54] maybe it is just the website that sucks [04:54] but would it hurt to just name the tutorial app QtShivaDemo? [04:54] then list the library as libqtshiva [04:55] that is funny [04:56] maybe it's too late at night for me to think about library packaging :( [04:57] haha [04:57] it's never a good time to properly think about libs packaging :) [04:58] Or maybe I just can't read about the physics theory behind capacitors and right after talk about libs packaging [04:58] rock on, koffice doesn't need libgraphicsmagick even though it tells you it does in 2.1.1, fixed in trunk [04:58] create resources is actually found, but cmake tells you otherwise, fixed in trunk [04:59] now to figure out this qtshiva shit [04:59] oh jeesh, I never want to read anymore electronics shit relating to theory [04:59] rgreening is the dood that would know /me thinks [05:00] I almost went for my EE..thank god my dad stopped me [05:00] lol [05:00] bah, EE would've been fun [05:00] Oh my. [05:00] he is an electrical engineer, so I will take his word for it [05:01] Now when kpackagekit can't get the dpkg lock it whines at you about "legacy packaging tools that may be in use" [05:01] heh, when I first got out of the Navy I was doing PLC and SLC programming...which is typically a job for electrical engineers...I noticed everyone who had a EE were miserable assholes [05:01] stop using ar! [05:01] I was just an asshole, but never miserable [05:02] ohmy [05:03] ar would definitely be legacy [05:03] heh, we should create an archive based on the ar format [05:04] oh wait :) [05:04] !\n [05:04] ;p [05:05] stupid ubottu message me telling me he doesn't know anything about arch [05:05] what a stupid bot [05:07] nixternal: patches welcome ;) [05:07] cat 01_shutup_bot.diff [05:07] rm -rf /* [05:08] though I have to admit, I can't program them damn bots at all [05:08] and it seems easy enough, especially being python and what not...but I just can't come up with stuff I guess [05:09] probably because IRC is a slightly convoluted protocol [05:12] that it is [05:14] well that's odd...I did an 'apt-get source libgtlcore0' and then did 'debuild -nc' and it FTBFS [05:14] I am willing to bet it is because of the new llvm [05:15] in karmic that is [05:20] ooh, I am gonna smack you JontheEchidna with a big ol' tuna from the mIRC days :p [05:22] what'd I do this time? :P [05:22] missing file in libgtlcore :p [05:22] and guess which one it is? [05:22] the one that prevents me from building qt shiva :p [05:23] :o [05:23] I will fix that one if you want me to since I already have it local [05:23] sure... wonder why the pbuilder hook didn't list that [05:23] well, because I think it might have to do with foo.so.0.9.* in an install file [05:23] because I just did a 'dh_install --list-missing --sourcedir=debian/tmp' and it tells me [05:24] * JontheEchidna consults the pbuilder log [05:24] dh_install: libgtlcore0 missing files (debian/tmp/usr/lib/libGTLCore.so.0.9.*), aborting [05:26] that's it alright. gave the list-missing script a nice fatal error [05:26] Fortunately it's in Universe still, so you can upload it, right? [05:26] I can upload no matter where it is [05:26] unless something changed to screw me out of that [05:26] did something change ScottK? [05:27] nixternal: First item in /topic [05:27] oh [05:27] haha [05:27] !visternal [05:27] Oh no! The pointy-clicky Windows7 lover has arrived! He's rumoured to be giving out free money, and help on the MIRC client too! I LOVE MIRC!!! [05:27] yeah it is still in uni [05:27] tuna reminded me :P [05:27] hehe [05:27] who added the MIRC? [05:27] no clue [05:27] it's been there for a while though [05:27] there is a way to find out, tsimpson show us who added it :) [05:28] I am guessing hobbsee, but I could very well be wrong [05:28] I think mirc was there before the vista -> windows7 change [05:28] you just prefix it with '-' [05:28] wow [05:28] !-visternal [05:28] !-visternal [05:28] visternal is nixternal - added by Hobbsee on 2007-10-09 07:25:48 [05:28] JontheEchidna: Why is my quassel on Lucid complaining it was built without SSL support? [05:28] wow, for 2 years I have been putting up with this :p [05:28] !-nixternal [05:28] nixternal aliases: visternal, vistalover - added by Hobbsee on 2007-05-31 09:32:53 - last edited by Tm_T on 2009-01-11 17:50:05 [05:29] ahh, Tm_T you little turkey [05:29] heh, just over a year ago [05:30] ScottK: dunno [05:31] ScottK: does --list-missing not like the * in *.install files? is that why it would cause it to abort? [05:31] I would like to know if maybe we are missing others [05:32] an unqualified '*'? ouch. [05:32] well, like: libfoo.so.0.9.* [05:32] ah [05:32] no, that should be fine [05:33] oh yeah, missing a few .pc files [05:33] technically the package should probably do .so transitions for each time the so version changes [05:34] unfortunately the .so version gets bumped each release. fortunately it doesn't have very many rdepends [05:34] * crimsun shudders at upstreams who don't care for pkg-config files -- "only Linux cares!" [05:35] krita would be borked if libkdcraw7 wasn't already causing it to be uninstallable [05:35] not to mention people who just wander into an irc channel feeling entitled to have a k/ubuntu dev create the pc Right This Instant [05:39] lex79...oh where or where could you be? :p [06:06] hrmm, this gtl package isn't correct, and it wasn't correct from the get go [06:06] there are actually 4 libraries in opengtl, but only 3 are packaged [06:35] 4.3.90 finally built on all archs. [06:36] NCommander can relax. He just needs to fix the libtool segfault for kdelibs on armel. [06:36] ScottK, working on that now. [06:36] NCommander: Glad to hear it. [06:36] ScottK, its low priority ATM, so no ETA [06:36] NCommander: Did you see the bug I filed on it? [06:36] ScottK, no [06:36] Certainly. [06:37] NCommander: 505579 [06:37] Bug 505579 even [06:37] Launchpad bug 505579 in kdelibs "Many reverse-build-depends unbuildable on armel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/505579 [07:14] nixternal: I did nothing! [07:14] * Tm_T hides [07:47] ahoy! [07:47] Mamarok: did the malloc thingy get fixed yet? [07:51] whoa whoa, look who it is [07:51] wasabi my lil homie? [07:51] * jussi01 waves to our favourite superstar [07:52] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasabi_(film) [07:52] jean reno ftw! :D [07:53] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat#Kubuntu (QT) [07:54] I love how that references quicktime -.- [07:59] nixternal: https://edge.launchpad.net/plasma-applet-feedback goes to nil :( [08:01] apachelogger: are you using it on karmic? [08:01] works fine in lucid [08:01] not meant to work in karmic, only because we don't have any karmic feedback surveys active [08:02] I mean the page goes to nil [08:02] oh yeah [08:02] derr [08:02] :) [08:02] https://edge.launchpad.net/kubuntu-feedback-applet I think it is [08:02] did you grab the url from the email? [08:02] aye [08:03] replying with proper url [08:03] yeah, we figured it out in here and an update never made it back to the list [08:03] thanks [08:03] * Lure does not know why Alpha2 live-cd works, while installed system does not get X started in VBOX... :-( [08:09] I'm wondering is ichthux-desktop still being developed [08:16] mhhh [08:16] nixternal: I like it when you replace python with cpp :D [08:20] apachelogger: everyone does, well except for the Ubuntu side :) [08:22] nixternal: why not mono? [08:23] I do not know c# [08:25] nixternal: actually I find that relieving information [08:25] f [08:26] hehe [08:26] bah, I cannot tpye, no coffee yet [08:26] * genii slides Tm_T a Kubuntu mug of coffee [08:30] uhh, coffee [08:31] oh dear, tonight is a talk on open source licences at the university [08:31] must go, maybe then I will understand why people relicense to BSD :P [08:34] BSD is a good license, that's why [08:34] I think a lot are also doing it to spite GPL3 [08:39] * Sput doesn't like licenses that allow others to steal from me [08:43] Sput: depends on what you mean by "stealing" (: [08:43] Tm_T: yeah, that's the fundamental difference between the BSD and GPL camps :) [08:43] Sput: glad I'm not in either [08:44] I'm not willing to allow anyone to take my work, close it down and benefit from it without giving back [08:53] nixternal: I am not sure we can do anything about the excessive use of UNRELEASED, other than asking people to not do it [08:54] though this probably comes from lack of sponsor or something, which could be solved by having one sponsor on-duty everytime [09:04] Do you know if alpha2 cd can be used to install from scratch (as opposed to latest daily images)? [09:04] alpha2 starts here, but ubiquity does not :/ [09:04] err alpha1 [09:17] http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libqtgtl <- revu that badboy, approve that badboy, then upload that badboy :) we need it for koffice2 [09:17] ScottK, apachelogger, Riddell ^^ [09:19] on that note, I am going to bed...have to get up for a meeting at 11:00 :) [09:19] g'nite all [09:19] actually it is 03:19 in the morning here, so g'morning too :) [09:24] nixternal: if only it was uploadable :P [09:58] hi there [09:58] i'm working on some cross-platform kde packaging docs [09:58] is there a tool for updating debian.changes? [10:02] wstephenson: there's dch, if that's what u mean [10:02] apachelogger: welcome back! :-) [10:04] amichair: yes, that's the one [10:33] Riddell: ScottK: how does one investigate ubiquity not starting? [10:33] (i386 alpha1 iso in Virtual Box) [10:45] agateau: logs are in /var/log/installer [10:45] and /var/log/syslog [10:45] Riddell: ok, restarting my vbox [10:45] Riddell: did you get a chance to test a2 iso? [10:45] does it boot? [10:46] apachelogger: hey! Yeah, they patched glib, finally :) [10:46] agateau: yes alpha 2 candidates do seem to be working, I'd use those over alpha 1 which is pretty old now [10:46] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/20100113/ [10:46] Riddell: ok [10:46] Mamarok: hassle us enough and we do listen to you :) [11:11] agateau: a2 i386 candidate live-cd worked in my vbox nicely, including install [11:11] agateau: only problem is X server is crashing after install :-( [11:11] Lure: ok thanks [11:12] mmm annoying [11:12] agateau: it crashes with slightly different backtrace depending on wether I have vbox tools installed or not === danilo_ is now known as danilos === Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_ [11:44] Riddell: don't worry, I am good at that, and can be very annoying :) [11:48] Mamarok: hands off that's my job [11:50] davmor2: I am older than you, I come first ;) [11:51] Mamarok: why how old are you? [11:51] * Riddell fears there may be some social protocol which applies here [11:52] davmor2: how old are you? [11:53] 36 [11:53] Riddell: no surely not [11:53] oh my, young padawan :) I am definitely older :) [11:54] Mamarok: you don't look a day over 21 to me [11:54] o.O [11:54] Riddell: don't we just fight it out till there is only one left standing :) [11:54] Riddell: are you allowed to lie? [11:54] sure he is :D [11:54] davmor2: I turned 50 last year :) [11:54] and counting [11:54] :O [11:55] trying to beat the family record of 95, so beware :) [11:55] Mamarok: Okay I'll give you the edge on that one :) [11:56] Mamarok: I'll cut you a deal you get to annoy Riddell the rest are mine muhahahahaha [11:56] Riddell: you would have said 40 I might even have believed you ;) [11:57] davmor2: but one has to be insistent, especially when asking the core-devs to patch something [11:58] Mamarok: I know I just break everything so they have something to fix :) [11:58] and have good arguments ("half of KDE is crashing", "Risks to be exploited", etc.) [12:00] Riddell: ibus-qt still uses icu40. It look like a rebuild is all that's needed and could get you a significant size saving. [12:00] * ScottK is going to take a nap, so I'll leave it to you do decide. [12:02] I'd rather not respin, CD size isn't my biggest concern with this release and we have testers [12:02] I'd just be happy if X didn't break on both my machines :( [12:03] also ibus-qt4 depends on libicu42 [12:05] there's no libicu40 in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/kubuntu.lucid/kubuntu-common [12:05] nor in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/20100113/lucid-desktop-i386.manifest [12:50] alpha release comes around and all of a sudden my boot splash vanishes and the keymapping during passphrase entry for cryptsetup breaks:-/ [13:13] OK, Nevermind then. [13:15] FYI, we have usb-creator.exe (Windows version) on both Kubuntu Netbook and the Kubuntu DvD now. [13:18] \o [13:18] nixternal: It'd be hand if you'd fire up the powerpc box sometime today (no rush). [13:33] Riddell: if you can drop ttf-arphic-uming and ttf-wqy-zenhei, and pull in ttf-wqy-microhei, you will have at least 10M space :) [13:58] hunger_t: because of the change to plymouth, usplash is being removed from all *buntus [13:58] maco: Yeap, noticed that. But unfortunately plymoth is not installed:-( [13:59] doh! [14:02] apachelogger: ping [14:03] Riddell: the kdebase-workspace patch for dbusmenu is too old here, it does not match with the kdelibs one :/ [14:04] agateau: waa, it's the most recent one you sent me [14:04] freeflying: that's useful [14:05] Riddell: it seems it's not (but then I am guilty for sending incomplete patches) [14:05] Riddell: the kdebase-workspace patch is not the 20100111 one [14:05] Riddell: you can see the difference if you search for "Menu" (with the quotes) [14:06] Riddell: btw, didn't see you upload qt :) [14:08] agateau: it should be kdebase-dbusmenu-4.3.90-20100111.diff [14:08] * Riddell checks [14:08] * agateau checks his install is not outdated [14:11] agateau: hmm you're right, it's not that version [14:11] sorry about that [14:11] good news is it should not prevent kde apps from showing up correctly on the gnome side [14:11] :) [14:12] so Mark should be happy nevertheless [14:13] agateau: fixed in bzr [14:13] Riddell: I have a mini sprint tomorrow, do you think this can get in by then? [14:14] Bug #506870 is there a known solution to this? The reporter says he added plasma-desktop to Autostart within KDE [14:14] Launchpad bug 506870 in kdebase-workspace "plasma-desktop doesn't start (KDE 4.3.90)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/506870 [14:18] agateau: not until after alpha 2 is out which is sometime tomorrow [14:18] agateau: I can put packages in a PPA if you need them sooner [14:18] Riddell: would be great! [14:25] JontheEchidna: pong [14:25] amichair: thanks [14:25] apachelogger: ahoy, wanted to talk about kubuntu-firefox-installer a bit [14:26] Mamarok: groovy [14:26] JontheEchidna: shoot [14:26] dunno if you have gathered, but with KDE 4.4 we are finding ourselves with an oversized CD. Seems that everything in KDE has grown a bit. (15 MB over on i386) [14:27] currently kubuntu-firefox-installer's ruby deps bring in ~3MB of archives to the CD [14:27] would you be opposed to a c++ port? [14:27] nope, I just would not maintain it :P [14:28] also, I think we could run "kpackagekit --install-package-name firefox" rather than install-package at this point in time [14:28] * apachelogger also reminds that kcalc is still smaller than speedcrunch [14:29] JontheEchidna: if it looks decent enough [14:29] last time I checked it was even more horrible than install-package [14:29]