[01:37] <WeatherGod> Is it just me, or is epiphany really difficult to work with?
[01:45] <WeatherGod> also, has anyone been able to use the Software Center sucessfully?
[01:53] <Ian_Corne> I havze, on karmic..
[01:54] <WeatherGod> yeah, I have had success with it on Karmic, but not Lucid yet
[01:55] <WeatherGod> heh, did anybody notice that the language pack for firefox isn't compatible with 3.5.7?
[01:56] <RAOF> WeatherGod: What isn't working for you re: Software Centre?  It looks like it's working fine here.
[01:56] <WeatherGod> Well, I tried "Use this source" for the adobe plugin, and it crashes
[01:57] <WeatherGod> a few days ago, I tried some other packages, and  it crashed as well
[01:58] <WeatherGod> heck, just tried installing AdBlock right now and got some errors
[01:59] <WeatherGod> plus, from a usability perspective, "Update Now" is different from "Install Now"
[01:59] <RAOF> I'm obviously looking at an entirely different Software Centre
[02:00] <WeatherGod> note, i am working off of a LiveCD version of UNR on my USB stick
[02:00] <RAOF> UNR may well be different.
[02:00] <WeatherGod> Ubuntu Software Center 1.1.7
[02:01] <WeatherGod> I hope not, that would be a support nightmare
[02:03] <RAOF> Ah, OK.  I've just found what you're talking about.
[02:03] <WeatherGod> so, does it say "Update Now" for you?
[02:05] <RAOF> I just need to wait for aptitude to release the dpkg lock firsh...
[02:05] <RAOF> first.
[02:06] <WeatherGod> looks like there is a brand-new 1.1.8, but the change log doesn't say anything about my issues, I don't think
[02:18] <WeatherGod> huh, interesting...
[02:18] <WeatherGod> I used Aptitude to refresh the package list
[02:18] <WeatherGod> but not to update or install anything
[02:19] <WeatherGod> then went back to Software Center and now it says "Install" and "Website"
[02:21] <WeatherGod> heh, and now apport won't let me do any auto reporting
[02:38] <david_> howdy all
[02:39] <WeatherGod> been rather quiet around here
[02:39] <WeatherGod> howdy
[02:40] <david_> no good
[02:41] <david_> i was just looking for some opinions, anyone here running lucid on a netbook?
[02:41] <WeatherGod> yuppers
[02:41] <david_> i'm in need of a new mobile and wondering about going to a netbook over another laptop
[02:41] <WeatherGod> got an Eee right here
[02:41] <david_> the new eee?
[02:41] <david_> 1201 or whatever they are
[02:41] <david_> or the old one? 1000?
[02:41] <WeatherGod> 1000
[02:41] <WeatherGod> with solidstate drive
[02:42] <WeatherGod> personally, I think 12 inches is really not a netbook any more
[02:43] <WeatherGod> I got plenty of opinions, what's your question
[02:44] <RAOF> 12" is big enough to accomodate a ThinkPad, which is what you should have at that size :{
[02:44] <RAOF> :)
[02:45] <david_> well im wondering if i should spend the $500 on the new eee or go with a $500 laptop
[02:45] <WeatherGod> I love 10 inches because it is still a good sized keyboard, and yet I can still throw it into a backpack
[02:45] <WeatherGod> matters by your usage pattern?
[02:46] <WeatherGod> for example, I have no need for cdrom drives
[02:46] <WeatherGod> I also have other computers for more intensive work
[02:46] <david_> i guess you can get by with a decent sized usb stick eh
[02:46] <david_> yeah i have a powerful desktop at home
[02:46] <WeatherGod> yeah, I am running Lucid off an 8GB one right now
[02:46] <david_> just need something for when im away
[02:47] <WeatherGod> the solid state drive is great for letting me be a little rough on it
[02:47] <WeatherGod> and the power brick is tiny
[02:47] <WeatherGod> and is light as hell
[02:48] <WeatherGod> I haven't seen the 12 inch ones, I can only vouch for 10 inch model
[02:49] <david_> hmm
[02:49] <WeatherGod> so, if you need something for travel or such (I take classes), it is very nice
[02:50] <WeatherGod> downside would be poor graphics card
[02:50] <WeatherGod> so flash stutters
[02:50] <david_> i just can't justify spending the same for an eee when i can get more power and larger screen from a notebook
[02:51] <david_> yeah, i watch lots of adult flash videos :P so that's no good
[02:51] <WeatherGod> well, in mplayer, they work fine
[02:51] <WeatherGod> just not in firefox
[02:51] <WeatherGod> it is the unoptimized flash plugin that is the culprit
[02:52] <WeatherGod> consider this...
[02:52] <WeatherGod> I was packing for a conference last year
[02:52] <WeatherGod> I had my suitcase stuffed
[02:52] <WeatherGod> and my backpack was fairly full
[02:52] <WeatherGod> then I was still able to add my laptop and its brick
[02:53] <david_> hmm
[02:53] <WeatherGod> meanwhile, my roommate still had to pack up his carrying case for his laptop
[02:53] <WeatherGod> along with a suitcase and backpack
[02:53] <david_> i work on an oil rig, so i pack for a month, suitcase, smaller suitcase for my 23" montior/x360, and hockey bag full of rig clothes, so i'm used to packing a bunch
[02:54] <WeatherGod> most laptops would be a whole other bag
[02:54] <WeatherGod> this you can  just throw into an existing bag
[02:54] <WeatherGod> probably the biggest advantage is the solid state drive
[02:55] <WeatherGod> actually, it uses two, one onboard non-volitile flash and another 32GB ssd
[02:56] <WeatherGod> I keep the swap and OS on the onboard flash and /home on the ssd
[02:56] <david_> what is ubuntu like on your 1xxx series eee?
[02:57] <david_> im definitely not familiar with any mobile chipsets/cpu's
[02:57] <david_> ie the atoms
[02:57] <WeatherGod> haven't officially timed it, but it boots very quickly
[02:57] <WeatherGod> and programs respond just fine
[02:58] <WeatherGod> I use it for my word processing and even some programming (I do scientific research)
[02:58] <david_> hmmm ic eee's have a few new series now, 1201 and the t91's
[02:58] <WeatherGod> and web browsing
[02:58] <david_> t91 is $589 for the 32gb ssd
[02:58] <david_> t91 is multi-touch though, might not need that
[02:58] <WeatherGod> is t91 the touchscreen one?
[02:58] <david_> yeah
[02:59] <WeatherGod> yeah, last I heard, it is more designed to be a touchscreen "station"
[02:59] <WeatherGod> like having a computer on your wall
[02:59] <CarlFK> tried to install nvidia using the 'restricted drivers' gui - 'error: see /var/log/jockey.log which ends with ERROR: update-alternatives: warning: skip creation of /usr/share/man/man1/nvidia-smi.1.gz because associated file /usr/share/man/man1/alt-nvidia-96-smi.1.gz (of link group gl_conf) doesn't exist.
[03:00] <david_> the 1201 doesn't even have the ssd option from my local store
[03:00] <CarlFK> sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau gives me xserver-xorg-video-nouveau: Depends: xserver-xorg-core (>= 2:1.6.2) but it is not going to be installed
[03:00] <CarlFK> any ides how I can get either driver installed?
[03:01] <WeatherGod> david_, not surprised, Asus really has fallen behind on promoting it
[03:01] <WeatherGod> brb
[03:01] <david_> hmm
[03:01] <CarlFK> and should I report those, or are they going to be automatically detected ?
[03:01] <CarlFK> i guess the nividia one need to be reported
[03:05] <WeatherGod> CarlFK, yeah, I would report them
[03:05] <WeatherGod> at the least mention it over at ubuntu-bugs to see if someone there knows anything about it
[03:05] <CarlFK> just started that
[03:06] <WeatherGod> david_, Asus really hit the sweet spot with the 1000 and 901 computers with solid state and Linux
[03:07] <WeatherGod> however... and this is just rumor, MS then threatened to raise their price for Windows for Asus's other computers unless they backed off on their Linux line and the solid state drives
[03:08] <WeatherGod> their support has also languished
[03:08] <WeatherGod> I certainly wouldn't be paying $500 for a netbook
[03:09] <WeatherGod> I would be looking for a 1000 somewhere for cheapp
[03:09] <david_> notebook it is haha
[03:10] <WeatherGod> with Ubuntu, of course, right?
[03:10] <WeatherGod> :P
[03:11] <CarlFK> any of those have firewire?
[03:11] <WeatherGod> my Eee does not have firewire
[03:12] <WeatherGod> I do not think any of them do
[03:12] <CarlFK> I need low end portable with firewire
[03:12] <CarlFK> yeah, I haven't seen it
[03:12] <WeatherGod> isn't Apple also dropping firewire?
[03:12] <CarlFK> low end is at odds with firewire
[03:12] <CarlFK> kinda
[03:13] <CarlFK> but there is still a ton of video equipment that uses it
[03:13] <DanaG> No eSATA OR ExpressCard.... phail.
[03:13] <CarlFK> no EC?!
[03:13] <DanaG> On Apple's newest laptops.
[03:13] <DanaG> Sorry, picked up on one part of whatever that conversation was.
[03:13] <CarlFK> dang.
[03:14] <DanaG> Only the 17" still has it.
[03:14] <CarlFK> I haven't figured out if there is a usb thing that is as standard as dv over firewire
[03:14] <WeatherGod> I don't think so
[03:14] <CarlFK> bleck
[03:14] <WeatherGod> firewire is really suited for those sort of tasks
[03:14] <CarlFK> I know most consumer cam corders now have usb
[03:14] <WeatherGod> USB is good for other things
[03:15] <CarlFK> and no firewire.  hit a local big box electroinics store (Frys) and only about 4 in 20 had firewire
[03:15] <WeatherGod> heh, go figure...
[03:15] <CarlFK> 4 did, the rest didn't.  20 seems low
[03:16] <WeatherGod> I guess it is proof that the market doesn't necessarially pick the best technologies
[03:16] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f2c0c1d02
[03:16] <NoelJB> WeatherGod, necessarily?  when does it almost ever?
[03:16] <DanaG> 16:9 panels are crap that's being foisted on everyone by the LCD manufacturers.
[03:17] <DanaG> They call it an upgrade... well, when my current laptop has 1920x1200, and any successor would have 1920x1080... that's losing 120 lines of pixels.
[03:17] <NoelJB> agreed!
[03:17] <WeatherGod> heh
[03:18] <WeatherGod> haven't shopped for moniitors in a while
[03:18] <NoelJB> I travel with a laptop all the time.  what would be the point in having a monitor?  LOL  Instead, I have an adapter so that I can use the hotel's TV :)
[03:18] <DanaG> 1920x1200 gives room for a taskbar while watching a 1080i movie.
[03:19] <DanaG> 1920x1080 screen?  You're screwed.
[03:19] <DanaG> s/1080i/1080/
[03:19] <DanaG> oh, and nvidia fail.
[03:19] <WeatherGod> adobe fail
[03:19] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f18399dc6
[03:19] <DanaG> nvidia fail.
[03:19] <NoelJB> DanaG, nvidia works quite well for me.
[03:19] <DanaG> Legacy?
[03:19] <NoelJB> Better than ATI or Intel.
[03:19] <NoelJB> No, modern.
[03:20] <DanaG> This nvidia is a legacy one.
[03:20] <NoelJB> My next laptop will probably be a W-series thinkpad.
[03:20] <DanaG> And all the nvidia driver is capable of doing... is segfaulting.
[03:20] <DanaG> NoelJB: consider the EliteBook series -- I have the current generation 8530w (with ATI by my own choice), and it's really nice.
[03:20] <bjsnider> DanaG, i thought we discussed this last night
[03:21] <DanaG> Last night it wasn't even installing. =þ
[03:21] <WeatherGod> DanaG, consider the neuvou drivers?
[03:21] <DanaG> yeah, nouveau works, but it tramples all over the bios bootsplash.
[03:21] <bjsnider> do not expect anything from the nvidia legacy drivers now or ever
[03:21] <WeatherGod> really?
[03:21] <NoelJB> HP?  No thanks.  Nor Dell.
[03:22] <DanaG> I've heard that newer thinkpads have actually declined in quality.
[03:22] <DanaG> http://hpfansite.com/hp-elitebook/hp-elitebook-8440w-review/
[03:22] <DanaG> I'll end up seeing the "restarting system..." message stuck on the screen all the way until Xorg starts again.
[03:22] <NoelJB> DanaG, Have you tried Fedora?  I'm not tracking nouveau, but I understand that during this part of development, Ubuntu's is rather different and poor compared to whatever Fedora is shipping for that code.
[03:23] <DanaG> That nvidia system is a spare one, anyway.
[03:23] <DanaG> My "real" system is the one with ATI.
[03:23] <bjsnider> then why bother with it
[03:23] <DanaG> I'll admit, fglrx does suck... but the open-source drivers are getting better.
[03:23] <NoelJB> I can see from the keyboard that it is missing a trackpoint.  If I were willing to buy hardware without a trackpoint, I'd own a Mac.
[03:23] <DanaG> no, it DOES have a stick.
[03:24] <DanaG> It's black on black.
[03:24] <NoelJB> thanks, I see  it now.,
[03:24] <DanaG> oh, and that's a 14" with a Quadro.
[03:24] <DanaG> 15" one will have USB 3.0.
[03:25] <NoelJB> DanaG, does fprint support that reader?
[03:25] <DanaG> Probably not... at least, not the one in my current EliteBook.
[03:25] <DanaG> AES2810.
[03:25] <NoelJB> I've switched, for lucid, from thinkfinger to fprint.  It is working, but has the same quirks that it does on Fedora.
[03:25] <DanaG> Unfortunately, many new laptops have the same, unsupported reader.
[03:25] <NoelJB> Hopefully it will be supported by the time I get one.
[03:26] <DanaG> I'm considering getting myself an extra fingerprint board (I broke the ribbon on mine), and donating to the fprint project.
[03:26] <DanaG> ribbon cable was soldered directly to the PCB... no cable connector.
[03:28] <DanaG> now, can anyone tell me what GPU the Quadro FX 880M and 1800M actually are?
[03:29] <NoelJB> I'm wondering if we'd see much difference between the FX2700M and FX3700M with Ubuntu.  Will our drivers leverage the difference?
[03:34] <DanaG> hmm, it seems like the nvidia glx library symlinks are missing.
[03:34] <bjsnider> they're created by jockey
[03:34] <bjsnider> that isn't in the mix yet
[03:34] <bjsnider> it is coming
[03:34] <DanaG> Not in the nvidia-96 package?
[03:36] <DanaG> hmm, so if I want to create them manually... where should they point?
[03:36] <bjsnider> jockey enables the alternatives to take effect instead of the ones already in the system
[03:37] <bjsnider> the command is in the rules file
[03:37] <bjsnider> two commands
[03:37] <DanaG> sudo update-alternatives --config gl_<tab> gives only gl_conf
[03:37] <DanaG> update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for gl_libraries.
[03:38] <DanaG> hmm, do you have those commands on hand?
[03:39] <DanaG> /usr/lib/libGLEW.so.1.5 -> libGLEW.so.1.5.1        /usr/lib/libGLEW.so.1.5.1        /usr/lib/libGL.so -> mesa/libGL.so        /usr/lib/libGLU.a -> mesa/libGLU.a        /usr/lib/libGLU.so -> mesa/libGLU.so
[03:40] <crimsun> the glew stuff is unrelated, BTW
[03:40] <DanaG> I also hope fglrx will get the same alternatives.
[03:40] <crimsun> even though I need to upload 1.5.2 after A2 is released
[03:41] <DanaG> Looks like weird things are going on with the nvidia packaging.
[03:41] <DanaG> Or new, at least.
[03:41] <bjsnider> everything including fglrx will have to be changed to use alternatives to accommodate the nvidia blob
[03:42] <DanaG> I hope Canonical is working with ATI to do that.
[03:42] <bjsnider> because the blob replaces mesa, we can't have it overwriting mesa's libs
[03:42] <DanaG> It'll be nice then, though... switching fglrx<->radeon will be just an alernatives-change away.
[03:43] <WeatherGod> yeah, that would actually help prevent a lot of bug reports
[03:43] <bjsnider> well, i'm not sure. those drivers do not replace mesa
[03:43] <DanaG> fglrx does replace some GL libs of some sort.
[03:43] <DanaG> It just replaces less than nvidia does.
[03:43] <WeatherGod> there have been several where people tried switching back and the opengl files were still the ones that nvidia put in
[03:44] <bjsnider> yes, that's the issue they're trying to prevent
[03:44] <DanaG> At least fglrx from ATI's own site has a buildpkg thingy -- it'd be nice to have somebody talk on phoronix about that.
[03:44] <DanaG> er, I mean, go on the phoronix ATI forum, and tell them about the planned stuff for the installer changes.
[03:45] <WeatherGod> yeah, that would be nice to have the major video card drivers all taken care of that way
[03:46] <DanaG> http://www.phoronix.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=19
[03:46] <bjsnider> what is not going to be nice is that some people are going to remove the packaged blob and install a new one using nvidia's installer, and thus pooch their system
[03:46] <crimsun> that will always happen
[03:47] <bjsnider> and it's their own fault
[03:47] <crimsun> just as people will write insane scripts to download and compile new ALSA*
[03:47] <WeatherGod> well, the problem is that people has been used to doing that
[03:47] <crimsun> and people will git clone and clobber X.Org
[03:47] <RAOF> crimsun: People do that?  I'm sorry for you.
[03:47] <WeatherGod> I was just about to say the same thing... that's nuts
[03:47] <crimsun> RAOF: alsa's easy. PA's the difficult one.
[03:48] <crimsun> "oh lookee, /usr/local/lib/WHAT?!"
[03:48] <RAOF> BABAW!
[03:48] <WeatherGod> package managers are a gift from the gods
[03:49] <WeatherGod> I always look for a package solution first before doing a "make install"
[03:49] <bjsnider> WeatherGod, you mean like the windows installer service?
[03:49] <bjsnider> luv that one
[03:49] <WeatherGod> how... what... that just makes me mad!
[03:49] <WeatherGod> no!
[03:49] <WeatherGod> of course not... that is the spawn of the devil
[03:49] <WeatherGod> that is how *not* to do package management
[03:50] <RAOF> Well, because it's not package management in the sense we use the phrase.
[03:50] <WeatherGod> exactly
[03:51] <bjsnider> it's defi9nitely microsoft taking a stab at it
[03:51] <WeatherGod> no, I think that package managers are -- bar none -- the best feature of linux over windows
[03:51] <DanaG> PulseAudio is a pretty awesome feature, too, when you have reason to use it (like I do).
[03:51] <WeatherGod> while we can still make it better... what we have is pretty damn good
[03:51] <bjsnider> it helps when you don't have a registry though
[03:52] <bjsnider> that makes it easier
[03:52] <crimsun> PA is pretty damned awesome even when you don't have a reason to use it :-)
[03:52] <WeatherGod> well, a registry is just a glorified /etc
[03:52] <crimsun> ALSA has come a long way thanks to PA
[03:52] <RAOF> There's nothing _technically_ wrong with having a registry; mostly it's just that Windows apps use it in indecipherable ways.
[03:53] <WeatherGod> yeah... one of the best ways to improve software is to break assumptions
[03:53] <WeatherGod> everything is wrong with having a registry
[03:53] <RAOF> gconf is the same sort of registry concept, and that's really quite nice.
[03:53] <WeatherGod> yes, but it is set up as files
[03:53] <WeatherGod> and it doesn't force other software to use it as well
[03:53] <DanaG> C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\SYSTEM is corrupt
[03:53] <RAOF> Neither does the Windows registry.
[03:54] <DanaG> ... because having it all in one file is great.
[03:54] <WeatherGod> well, if you want to use any sort of useful features, you do
[03:54] <WeatherGod> at least, that is my understanding
[03:54] <WeatherGod> DanaG, agreed
[03:55] <WeatherGod> crimsun, I was so pissed when I saw that Win7 ad showing the guy having networked audio and claiming it was his idea...
[03:55] <RAOF> Again, I don't think that the single-file implementation is totally evil.
[03:55] <WeatherGod> grrr
[03:55] <DanaG> Win7 doesn't even do whole-system networked audio.
[03:55] <RAOF> There are some things you need to set up in the registry; mime mappings is one. (And they're set up in the most inscrutable way)
[03:56] <DanaG> yeah, where the heck ARE mime types set, anyway?
[03:56] <WeatherGod> it is when your filesystem locks files
[03:56] <DanaG> I never ever did figure that out.
[03:56] <RAOF> DanaG: You know those huge {iam-a-guid-33333-2222-523434-1231423-342331} registry hives?  That's part of the mimetype setup.
[03:56] <DanaG> I mean on Linux.
[03:57] <WeatherGod> there is a separate package that has that
[03:57] <WeatherGod> forget what it is, though
[03:58] <WeatherGod> I can't remember if Gnome does it on its own, or if gnome and kde both load from this other package
[03:58] <RAOF> You'd proabably be thinking of shared-mime-info
[03:58] <WeatherGod> yes, that's it
[03:58] <crimsun> hehe, network audio has been around for decades
[03:59] <WeatherGod> I can't think of one thing in any of those comericals that are actually new
[03:59] <RAOF> esound did it, didn't it?
[03:59]  * RAOF is disappointed that musicbrainz does not have Animals in the db.
[04:00] <DanaG> Now if only radeon KMS didn't take so damn much power, I could use it.
[04:00] <WeatherGod> RAOF: Pink Floyd's Animal?
[04:00] <RAOF> WeatherGod: Yes.
[04:00] <WeatherGod> heh, go figure
[04:00] <RAOF> WeatherGod: At least, my release of it.
[04:00] <crimsun> RAOF: yes, and NAS before that, and OSS + nc before that, and ...
[04:00] <RAOF> Nor does it have /Dark Side of the Moon/
[04:01] <WeatherGod> now, I know it has that...
[04:01] <WeatherGod> it recognized my mp3 rips
[04:01] <RAOF> Not my release it doesn't.
[04:01] <crimsun> good ole "Sheep"
[04:01] <WeatherGod> ??
[04:02] <crimsun> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_(song)
[04:02] <virtuald> DanaG: Do radeon ums use less power than KMS?
[04:02]  * RAOF is too old to lose the weight he used to need to throw around.
[04:02] <DanaG> Very slightly less... but then Compiz makes mesa exit().
[04:02] <DanaG> Yeah, it just EXITS.
[04:02] <DanaG> Not crashes.  No backtrace.
[04:03] <crimsun> that's neat
[04:03] <DanaG> =þ
[04:03] <virtuald> :>
[04:04] <WeatherGod> lovely
[04:04] <WeatherGod> not even a debug message or a log entry?
[04:04] <DanaG> Not the last time I tried, at least.
[04:04] <RAOF> Oh, wow.  Recent mesa changes have really killed nouveau's compiz performance.
[04:05] <DanaG> Can compiz even run on nouveau right now?
[04:05] <DanaG> Any packaged way, I mean.
[04:05] <WeatherGod> yeah, I thought nouvaeu was focusing on 2d performance
[04:05]  * DanaG switches to radeon UMS for a while...
[04:06] <WeatherGod> also, does anyone know if the microcode got pushed into the mainline kernel tree for nouvaeu?
[04:06] <RAOF> The firmware?  No, although you can easily grab it, and the nv4x voodoo generator works.
[04:07] <WeatherGod> I thought Linus was pushing for it to be moved in?
[04:07] <RAOF> The driver's in there; the firmware-like stuff isn't.
[04:07] <RAOF> But nv4x no longer needs the firmware like stuff, and the work for nv5x appears to be mostly done.
[04:07] <WeatherGod> maybe we are talking about two different things
[04:07] <WeatherGod> that's good to know
[04:08] <RAOF> DanaG: By “packaged” do you mean “is there any PPA with a mesa build that enables nouveau 3D” then no.  The DDX, libdrm, and nouveau-kernel-source we have in ~xorg-edgers is enough to build & use nouveau-gallium, though.
[04:08] <WeatherGod> I got an older computer that I am probably going to convert into a Freevo setup, and it has a good NVidia card in it
[04:09] <bjsnider> why freevo and not xbmc?
[04:10] <WeatherGod> well, haven't looked into it yet... xbmc seems to be the  new thing, huh?
[04:10] <WeatherGod> I know of freevo and mythtv
[04:10] <WeatherGod> boxee is neat, but not quite what I want
[04:10]  * crimsun chuckles: [    0.103637] (==) NV(0): Using HW cursor
[04:10] <WeatherGod> ??
[04:11] <RAOF> I'm sure that's a great speed improvement :)
[04:11] <WeatherGod> that's in your dmesg?
[04:11] <RAOF> Looks like xorg.0.log to me.
[04:11] <crimsun> Nah, /var/log/Xorg.0.log. The cursor takes on a mind of its own when I'm debuilding.
[04:12] <WeatherGod> ah, never played with those things
[04:13] <WeatherGod> probably should have to help figure out a couple of weird things with MatLab
[04:13] <WeatherGod> free drivers randomly crashes with it, but not the nvidia ones
[04:14] <WeatherGod> the only reason why I won't bad-mouth NVidia
[04:14] <crimsun> the free drivers are only good for a terminal emulator (check) and non-anti-aliased fonts (check)
[04:15] <WeatherGod> so, vga mode...?
[04:15] <WeatherGod> :P
[04:15] <NoelJB> crimsun, LOL I agree
[04:15] <WeatherGod> by the way... speaking of anti-aliased fonts...
[04:16] <WeatherGod> firefox looks pretty in Lucid
[04:16] <WeatherGod> it is a pleasure to read
[04:16] <DanaG> yargh, had to log into kde.
[04:16] <DanaG> trying to log into gnome just dumped me back to the login screen.
[04:17] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f5799e48c
[04:17] <DanaG> No error.
[04:17] <WeatherGod> heh
[04:17] <DanaG> hmm, UMS power usage is acceptable, though.
[04:18] <DanaG> Time for me to purge fglrx and go on to new xorg.
[04:18] <WeatherGod> I just found out that Cheese now can turn on my built-in camera automatically
[04:18] <WeatherGod> that's new for me
[04:19] <DanaG> I had had the karmic X server pinned.
[04:20] <WeatherGod> wouldn't that have been causing problems?
[04:20] <DanaG> It was working fine-ish until the mesa changes.
[04:21] <WeatherGod> exactly
[04:21] <NoelJB> DanaG, I have multiple partitions, booted from a dedicated GRUB partition.  So I keep multiple versions, and can install them cleanly.
[04:21] <DanaG> But now that I put some of that IC Diamond thermal paste on my GPU, the temperatures with UMS powersavings are acceptable.
[04:21] <DanaG> time to go to xorg-edgers.
[04:22] <WeatherGod> have fun
[04:23] <DanaG> E: Type 'n' is not known on line 2 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/xorg-edgers-ppa-lucid.list
[04:23] <DanaG> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/xorg-edgers/ppa/ubuntu lucid main
[04:23] <DanaG> n
[04:23] <DanaG> # deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/xorg-edgers/ppa/ubuntu lucid main
[04:24] <DanaG> yeah, there's a random 'n' there.
[04:24] <WeatherGod> wonder how that got there...
[04:24] <WeatherGod> maybe a bad \n?
[04:28] <DanaG> eh.
[04:28] <WeatherGod> ooh, Power Management has nothing about my battery, and won't let me configure anything for "On AC"
[04:29] <DanaG> oh, and ums does have some visual corruption.
[04:29] <DanaG> My windows look like they've been torn from a spiral-bound notebook... they have artifacts that look like those little "rippy bits" around them.
[04:29] <WeatherGod> eeew
[04:30] <WeatherGod> my popup notifications don't look great either
[04:30] <DanaG> KMS looks nice, but literally doubles my whole-system power usage (as measured by my battery).
[04:30] <WeatherGod> don't know how to describe it, but it isn't right
[04:31] <WeatherGod> heh
[04:31] <WeatherGod> go figure.... looks like firefox is responsible for most of the CPU wakeups on my system right now
[04:32] <WeatherGod> 99% on one of the cores and a few percent on the other
[04:33] <WeatherGod> unless that isn't percent... dunno
[04:33] <NoelJB> WeatherGod, the notification bubbles in the upper right?  looks like they're deliberately annotated during the alpha.
[04:33] <WeatherGod> yeah, those
[04:33] <WeatherGod> I get no alpha effects
[04:34] <NoelJB> yes, they look bad, but I believe that it is intentional (such as the annotation on the top to review the urgency level)
[04:34] <WeatherGod> get a bunch of lines and some really tiny text to go with the man message
[04:34] <WeatherGod> yeah
[04:34] <bjsnider> DanaG, did you read that phoronix story about power management being discussed?
[04:34] <NoelJB> I believe that they are indicating the layout within the bubble.
[04:34] <WeatherGod> hope there is no intention of letting that go to beta
[04:35] <DanaG> yeah, I tried those patches.
[04:35] <DanaG> They didn't slow the vram at all, didn't slow the GPU very much, and caused glitches upon the all-too-frequent clock changes.
[04:36] <DanaG> also, they've suggested "performance" and "ondemand" governors... well, what about "powersave"?
[04:36] <NoelJB> WeatherGod, I doubt it.  These are still (very) early days, and the notification system needs work.
[04:37] <WeatherGod> good
[04:37] <WeatherGod> well, time for sleep for me
[04:37] <WeatherGod> good night, y'all
[04:38] <DanaG> ugh, it seems "radeon" detects incorrect DPI.
[04:38] <DanaG> Everything is reeeeeeeeeeeeeally tiny.
[04:39] <DanaG> RADEON(0): DPI set to (96, 96)
[04:39] <DanaG> well, it should be 147, not 96.
[04:46] <DanaG> argh, so yeah, my letters are literally 3 millimeters tall now.
[04:47] <DanaG>  http://pastebin.com/f1cf443f9 -- say, why is radeon reporting 96 dpi, when it has the size correct AND the resolution correct?
[04:47] <bjsnider> 147 dpi is i think greater than a kindle
[04:48] <bjsnider> it's certainly in ebook reader territory
[04:48] <DanaG> Yeah, that's why I like it so much.
[04:48] <DanaG> As long as software cooperates.
[04:48] <RAOF> It's about the DPI on both of my laptops; that's a nice DPI.
[04:48] <DanaG> It's halfway to paper (300).
[04:49] <DanaG> Too bad the highest DPI I've ever seen in reasonable desktop LCDs, is like 108, or 112 if you're lucky.
[04:49] <bjsnider> when they can do 600, that'll be the thing
[04:50] <DanaG> ooh, now I can use my touchstyk and touchpad at the same time to do two different things.
[04:50] <DanaG> It's a bummer HP screwed up and put the stick-buttons on the PAD device.
[04:57] <NoelJB> bjsnider, as far as I know, my laptop is 146 DPI.  Lucid and Karmic appear to want to use 96 DPI.  I seem to recall that Jaunty treated it as 146, but that was the only Ubuntu release that did.
[04:57] <NoelJB> 1920x1200 on a 15.4" display.
[04:57] <DanaG> fglrx used 147 properly, as well.
[04:57] <DanaG> Radeon KMS, I believe, also did 147.
[04:58] <bjsnider> how much power do you suppose it would take to drive a 46" screen with that dot pitch?
[04:58] <DanaG> I don't need 46" with 147DPI... but I'd at least want 22" with 120DPI.
[04:58] <DanaG> Or 145.
[04:58] <NoelJB> bjsnider, LOL I have no idea, but I'd love to see that image quality!!
[04:58] <DanaG> Not the pathetic 108.
[04:59] <bjsnider> probably enough to snuff out california
[04:59] <DanaG> so, how do I get xorg to stop lying about dpi?
[04:59] <NoelJB> Look at it this way ... my laptop has greater resolution than my 46" 1080p Plasma monitor.
[04:59] <NoelJB> DanaG, there's a setting, at least with Gnome.
[04:59] <bjsnider> much greater
[04:59] <DanaG> My dad's 42" plasma is 1024x768.... STRETCHED to widescreen.
[04:59] <bjsnider> much much much greater
[05:00] <DanaG> I want the X server itself to stop lying.
[05:00] <DanaG> Mmmm, rectangular pixels == phail.
[05:00] <DanaG> On that plasma.
[05:00] <DanaG> The pixels are so wide, I can see them from, oh, 8 feet away.
[05:00] <DanaG> Or maybe 12 feet.
[05:03] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/296878'
[05:03] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/296878
[05:06] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/141146
[05:09] <DanaG> so yeah, how do I get xorg not to lie about dpi?
[05:14] <DanaG> ugh, even with kms, still wrong dpi.
[05:27] <DanaG> ARGH.
[05:27] <DanaG> stupid open-source driver.
[05:27] <DanaG> Fails at dpi.
[05:29] <DanaG> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705#c6
[05:29] <DanaG> no, it's stupid Xorg.
[05:31] <DanaG>   dimensions:    1920x1200 pixels (508x317 millimeters)
[05:31] <DanaG> wtf?
[05:36] <DanaG> I'd call that damn well broken.
[06:07] <DanaG> hmm, so, how do I get 3D on nouveau, with just packaged stuff (including PPAs)?
[06:09] <RAOF> DanaG: Install nouveau from xorg-edgers, git clone mesa, configure --with-nouveau-gallium, run.
[06:10] <hifi> what kind of 3D currently works with nouveau and which chips?
[06:10] <DanaG> is it xorg-edgers/nouveau, or just xorg-edgers?
[06:10] <RAOF> Just xorg-edgers.
[06:11] <RAOF> hifi: Pretty much everything, and certainly nv4x+.  nv3x might work, and before that it's fixed-function hardware which doesn't map to gallium, and the support is much worse.
[06:11] <hifi> what?
[06:11] <hifi> *really*?
[06:12] <RAOF> This nv4B laptop is running compiz on nouveau right now; apparently nv5x 3d is now even better supported than nv4x.
[06:12] <DanaG> how  about nv17?
[06:12] <DanaG> yeah, utterly garbage chip.
[06:12] <hifi> RAOF: does it run quake?
[06:12] <RAOF> DanaG: Someone's started working on the classic mesa driver for that again; it's possible that textured triangles work :)
[06:12] <RAOF> hifi: Yes
[06:13] <hifi> my god
[06:14] <RAOF> It has recently started to hang the GPU after a while, but it works.
[06:19] <hifi> too bad old cards are not supported that well
[06:20] <hifi> I only have old nvidia cards :p
[06:20] <hifi> the best thing I have is FX5600 which is just barely NV30
[06:21] <DanaG> best nvidia I have is a 7600, in a laptop with a dead LCD.
[06:21] <DanaG> And for a while, I had LVDS entirely disconnected.
[06:21] <DanaG> All sorts of bugs came up when I did that -- including the BIOS menus becoming inaccessible, and ALL (!) VBE modes disappearing.
[09:05] <om26er> is gdebi gonna get replaced with software center in lucid?
[09:05] <om26er> mean is its confirmed
[09:28] <BUGabundo_work> morning
[10:18] <BUGabundo_work> any tips on how to improve ssh tunneled browser rendering???
[10:19] <BUGabundo_work> both FF and Chromium are terribly slow
[10:22] <hifi> stop watching hd porn at work
[10:22] <hifi> it makes your employer a sad panda
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work> naaa
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work> no port
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work> top gear
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work> *pr0n
[10:50] <BUGabundo_work> how the heck do i change vinagre server settings, via cli ?
[13:20] <BUGabundo_work> whats up with freenx?
[13:20] <BUGabundo_work> i'm trying https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX
[13:20] <BUGabundo_work> bug cant run sudo aptitude install freenx
[13:20] <BUGabundo_work> not build for lucid :(
[13:20] <BUGabundo_work> https://edge.launchpad.net/~freenx-team/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=karmic
[13:21] <BUGabundo_work> vs
[13:21] <BUGabundo_work> https://edge.launchpad.net/~freenx-team/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=lucid
[13:21] <BUGabundo_work> MUAUA
[13:41] <Guest61216> what time is alpha 2 being released at ?
[13:44] <BUGabundo_work> !shedule | Guest61216
[13:44] <Guest61216> !schedule Guest61216
[13:44] <Guest61216> !schedule | Guest61216
[13:44] <BUGabundo_work> bad bot
[13:44] <Guest61216> hehehe
[13:44] <Guest61216> Send him to his room
[13:45] <BUGabundo_work> !schedule
[13:45] <BUGabundo_work> !release
[13:45] <SwedeMike> well, it doesn't say time of day anyway.
[13:45] <BUGabundo_work> in case, Guest61216 /topic
[13:45] <BUGabundo_work> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynxSchedule
[13:45] <BUGabundo_work> January 14th Alpha 2
[13:46] <SwedeMike> yeah, but still doesn't say time of day.
[13:46] <Guest61216> I know it's today :P
[13:46] <Guest61216> I have been counting down since last week :P
[13:46] <Guest61216> I just wanna know at what point today I can try it
[13:46] <SwedeMike> Guest61216: why? just install the daily build and keep it updated.
[13:46] <SwedeMike> or alpha1
[13:47] <Guest61216> where are the daily builds ?
[13:47] <ripps> why's it matter when it "officially released"? It's not like there will suddenly be a deluge of 100 package updates at that moment.
[13:48] <Guest61216> I figured if the release schedule mentions Alpha 2 it's cause it's important ?
[13:48] <jpds> ripps: When the ISO is on releases.ubuntu.com
[13:48] <SwedeMike> Guest61216: the alpha release milestones are mainly to make sure the installer works properly.
[13:48] <Guest61216> ah ok
[13:49] <Guest61216> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[13:51] <Guest61216> I gotta slow internet connection here, 45 minutes to download the ISO
[13:51] <Guest61216> Last year I was at a place with a faster connection took 60 seconds to download the full ISO :o
[13:55] <Ian_Corne> !test
[13:55] <Ian_Corne> oh it quit :p
[13:58] <Guest61216> is is the currently available daily build alpha 2 ?
[14:04] <gnomefreak> Guest61216: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ should have them
[14:05] <Guest61216> ok
[14:48] <Hans_Henrik> just did about 150 MB of updates (hadn't updated in a while), now once the white icon is done blinking, i hear the "logged in sound" (automatic login), but the screen is entirely black.. ideas? (recovery still works great though)
[14:52] <david> sup
[14:52] <Hans_Henrik> black screen on login. :P
[14:52] <Hans_Henrik> (entirely black)
[14:53] <Guest66219> Maybe it's a new theme, charcoal on dark sky theme ?
[14:53] <Guest66219> :P
[14:53] <Hans_Henrik> nope, its not that dark xD
[14:53] <Hans_Henrik> (the theme isnt that dark)
[14:55] <Hans_Henrik> btw the new GRUB bootloader update, (GRUB 1.97-ubuntu100X~), should work great with other distro's too right?
[14:55] <lokad> hi
[14:56] <lokad> can someone help me with x - the last two upgrades seem to be broken and the last working debs aro no more on archive.ubuntu.com
[14:56] <lokad> and i don not find anythin suspicious in my logs to pin down the error
[14:56] <Hans_Henrik> broken how?
[14:57] <lokad> black screen and unresponsive system
[14:57] <lokad> have to hard reset
[14:57] <Hans_Henrik> welcome to the club :p
[14:57] <lokad> intel gma
[14:57] <Hans_Henrik> lokad do you got automatic login btw?
[14:58] <Hans_Henrik> or do you need to write username and/or password and/or click on your username for logging in?
[14:58] <lokad> i think my setup was with automatic login after a timeout
[14:58] <lokad> but manually running x from the repair netroot also fails
[14:59] <Hans_Henrik> does that login occur? (aka is the "you logged in sound" played?)
[14:59] <lokad> how do i enable the login sound without gui?
[15:00] <Hans_Henrik> hmm no clue, g2g
[15:01] <lokad> has anyone else this problem?
[15:02] <MTeck-engaged> lokad: if you get to your login screen, switch to tty2, log in as yourself, sudo -s, /etc/init.d/gdm stop, su - your_user, startx, what happens?
[15:02] <lokad> i do not get to the login screen
[15:03] <lokad> i can only boot into repair mode
[15:03] <MTeck-engaged> it locks up at what point?
[15:03] <lokad> i tried Xorg -logfile xlog -logverbose 255
[15:03] <lokad> last entry
[15:03] <lokad> is about memory allocation
[15:03] <lokad> after about 3 seconds
[15:03] <MTeck-engaged> oh, you have a link to a paste, or file a bug report?
[15:04] <lokad> i have not created a bugreport yet, but i can put the logfile into the pastebin
[15:04] <MTeck-engaged> I'm using Gentoo on my only system, about to switch back to 10.04
[15:04] <MTeck-engaged> sure, I'd like a peak
[15:04] <lokad> I was too lazy for gentoo at some point *g*
[15:05] <MTeck-engaged> it's easy enough to install - but I just don't think it's for me
[15:06] <lokad> do you have some experience with logs?
[15:07] <lokad> unfortunately the "normal" logs contain no trace of the error
[15:07] <lokad> /var/log/messeg et. al.)
[15:07] <MTeck-engaged> usually there's /var/log/Xorg.log
[15:08] <lokad> yes created the verbose on myself with the flags, but thats all the clues i get
[15:08] <Guest66219> hey, what graphic card you have ?
[15:10] <lokad> intel gma945gme
[15:11] <Guest66219> I often had problems with an intel on 8.04, I never found out what it was. But it would hang, even raising elephants would not work.
[15:11] <lokad> http://paste.ubuntu.com/356609/
[15:11] <lokad> xlog
[15:11] <Ian_Corne> raising elephants?
[15:11] <Ian_Corne> :p
[15:11] <Guest66219> has there been any recent changes to the intel xorg drivers?
[15:12] <lokad> I did not have such a bad experience - not even with intrepid and karmic lpia
[15:12] <lokad> and until about monday everything worked as it should
[15:12] <Guest66219> ok
[15:13] <Guest66219> if you boot the machine, when it hangs, can you get a console using CTRL+ALT+F1 ?
[15:13] <lokad> no, i can only hard reset
[15:13] <Guest66219> Ok
[15:13] <Guest66219> I think the last lines of the log are being lost because they are not written before it crashes...
[15:13] <Guest66219> Can you do raising elephants ?
[15:13] <Ian_Corne> whoa
[15:14] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[15:14] <Guest66219> hi
[15:16] <Guest66219> lokad, when it black screens, can you try doing the magic sysrq sequence  ( raising elephants ) to reboot
[15:16] <Guest66219> that way the log will be saved to the end ?
[15:16] <lokad> hmm i had a while true  / sync loop
[15:16] <Guest66219> brb
[15:16] <lokad> magic sysrq did not work -.-
[15:18] <Guest61216> ok
[15:18] <Guest61216> I dunno any other way to preserve the log...
[15:18] <Guest61216> Sorry
[15:18] <Guest61216> gotta wait for someone else to help
[15:18] <lokad> ok
[15:19] <Guest61216> I had exactly that problem, but never got it fixed so I have been using an ATI card since. What's worse is my sister-in-law is still on Windows cause I never got this fixed :P
[15:22] <Propri> Hi
[15:24] <dlublink> Guess has finally gotten a proper name :d
[15:24] <dlublink> Guest*
[15:28] <dlublink> Any one there ?
[15:28] <david> Ok
[15:28] <david> Just making sure
[15:28] <dlublink> my client isn't broken
[15:28] <lokad> or has anyone still libgl1-mesa-{dev,dri,glx}_7.7-0ubuntu3_i386.deb ?
[15:29] <lokad> it seems that i had these when my system was working properly
[15:29] <lokad> unfortuately archive.debian.org does not have them anymore
[15:31] <lokad> (/var/cache/apt/archives/...)
[15:31] <dlublink> I'll check my laptop
[15:31] <dlublink> hang on
[15:31] <lokad> thanks
[15:33] <dlublink> I gottem :d
[15:33] <dlublink> libgl1-mesa-dri-7.7-0ubuntu3_is386.deb
[15:34] <dlublink> I don't have -dev though
[15:34] <lokad> does not matter, i hope
[15:35] <dlublink> Uploading now
[15:35] <dlublink> Gonna take about 2 minutes to send em
[15:35] <lokad> to see if x really works with the older versions those should be enough
[15:35] <lokad> ok thank you
[15:35] <dlublink> scp /var/cache/apt/archives/*mesa* dlublink@myserver.tld:~
[15:36] <dlublink> So you'll have everything I have in there
[15:36] <lokad> ok
[15:36] <dlublink> 50%
[15:37] <dlublink> private chat :P
[15:37] <lokad> semms so :)
[15:37] <lokad> seems
[15:38] <dlublink> Go into private chat, I'll give you the URL therE :P
[15:39] <lokad> uh pointers as how to do this? (i#m no active irc-user -.-)
[15:39] <dlublink> hehehe
[15:39] <dlublink> You should have a tab somewhere that says "dlublink"
[15:39] <dlublink> in it you'll see "You there?" twice + the url
[15:39] <BluesKaj> what is the best installation approach to having gnome and kde on the same install ?
[15:40] <dlublink> install from ubuntu cd and do "apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" ?
[15:40] <dlublink> That's what I'd do...
[15:40] <dlublink> dunno if it'd work
[15:43] <BluesKaj> i already have kde , thinking of adding gnome in case kde crashes again , that way i can rescue kde later when the fix is put on the repos
[15:43] <dlublink> ok
[15:43] <lokad> dlublink: does not work either -.- i guess i will file a bug report ...
[15:43] <dlublink> so I would imagine "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop" migh work
[15:43] <dlublink> Yep
[15:44] <dlublink> sorry lokad :(
[15:51] <lokad> sorry for wasting your time :(
[15:51] <dlublink> Time is not wasted
[15:51] <dlublink> I am working at the same time :P
[15:53] <lokad> ok :)
[15:58] <dlublink> Latest updates, still takes 30 to 40 seconds to boot :(
[16:00] <dlublink> You know what would be pretty cool ?
[16:00] <dlublink> instead of showing "Ubuntu" it showed immediately my background image :P
[16:00] <lokad> hmm?
[16:00] <dlublink> kind of like Macs in the early 90s
[16:01] <lokad> patented? *fg*
[16:01] <dlublink> really ?
[16:01] <lokad> don't think so ...
[16:02] <dlublink> ever heard of the core boot project ?
[16:02] <lokad> yes
[16:03] <lokad> but hard work without support from the mobo manufacturers
[16:03] <dlublink> Be pretty cool if they got that working with Ubuntu, it'd be so fast to boot...
[16:03] <dlublink> Yep
[16:18] <dlublink> hey need help with #501520
[16:19] <dlublink> I think the issue is with the kernel since no key events are generated, can anyone confirm this ? How do I assign the ticket to the kernel package ?
[16:20] <JontheEchidna> dlublink: to assign it to the kernel, change the package to "linux"
[16:21] <dlublink> Ok
[16:22] <dlublink> I used the xev command to test for the keys and no events occur on 10.04, other than the kernel what package might cause this ?
[16:23] <JontheEchidna> udev maybe
[16:24] <dlublink> ok
[16:24] <dlublink> testing
[16:46] <lokad> dlublink: newest updates - xorg still hangs, but magic sysrq works hooray -.-
[16:47] <lokad> and i get a long list of entries: select returned 1, select returned 0 ... in my Xorg.log
[16:47] <lokad> does anyone know what this is supposed to mean?
[16:47] <lokad> but the xserver now hangs after about 1.5 seconds
[16:48] <lokad> before it was after 3 seconds ...
[16:48] <DanaG> phail: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705#c6
[16:54] <DanaG> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=fff00df94d7ebd18a8e24537ec96073717375a3f
[16:56] <BUGabundo_remote> do we still have nested X, and XDMC ?
[16:56] <BUGabundo_remote> I would like to connect remotelly
[16:56] <DanaG> argh, whoever decided to make this change, should be condemned to forever use a 200 DPI display with OS set to 147 DPI.
[17:07] <DanaG> I'm generally decently forgiving, but I have NO forgiveness for people deliberately BREAKING things that previously worked PERFECTLY... for bullshit reasons.
[17:11]  * om26er__ wonders does language count here?
[17:14] <DanaG> yeah, normally it does.
[17:14] <DanaG> I'm just really, extremely irked.
[17:15] <BUGabundo_remote> maco: you've blogged about NX
[17:15] <BUGabundo_remote> maco: so do you know if it is possible to use it at a nested X, in the source PC ?
[17:18] <maco> i have?
[17:20] <DanaG> great, so now we have to specifically override xorg to tell it to obey what our monitors tell it... instead of the old way, which was to override it when you DIDN'T want it to obey the monitor.
[17:40] <DanaG> well, I'm going to file a bug on that stupid deliberate regression.
[17:41] <_Groo_> hi/2 all.. any kernel ubuntu devel here? latest 2.6.22-10 brakes ath5k (the backport from .33 wasnt such a good idead) :D
[17:41] <BUGabundo_remote> DanaG: since you are at it, file the one on nautilus tab in the bottom
[17:41] <BUGabundo_remote> I forgot
[17:41] <DanaG> hmm, I'll have to do those later, though.
[17:58] <hanshenrik> python-psyco is not in the repo.. is python-psyco not suppose to be in the repo's of 10.04 or is it just not added yet or.. any1 know?
[17:58] <BUGabundo_remote> !info python-psyco
[17:59] <hanshenrik> i believe i got universe enabled :s
[17:59] <hanshenrik> yes i do, still its not in the repos
[18:00] <hanshenrik> Package python-psyco is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source
[18:00] <hanshenrik> (quote from shell)
[18:01] <BUGabundo_remote> fail to build??
[18:01] <BUGabundo_remote> check the logs in LP
[18:02] <hanshenrik> LP logs?
[18:03] <BUGabundo_remote> the source and build logs, yes
[18:24] <Hans_Henrik> i did apt-get install aircrack-ng;apt-get remove --purge aircrack-ng;   before i installed it, it replied to "aircrack-ng" with The program 'aircrack-ng' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing: ~     but AFTER i installed/removed aircrack-ng, it says bash: /usr/bin/aircrack-ng: No such file or directory    - i guess thats a bug with the package?
[18:29] <fejes> not that I'm an expert, but did you really purge immediately after installing?
[18:29] <Hans_Henrik> nope
[18:29] <Hans_Henrik> i ran aircrack-ng but
[18:29] <Hans_Henrik> shouldn't matter
[18:30] <Hans_Henrik> .. i guess :p
[18:30] <fejes> i know nothing about aircrack.
[18:31] <fejes> I'm just here to learn. (=
[18:36] <dlublink> As far as I know the only difference between a purge and a remove is that the config files are removed,
[18:37] <dlublink> so you are better to do a remove incase you made customizations to the files or something
[18:37] <dlublink> I rarely use purge
[18:37] <dlublink> Mostly it's for debugging or fixing a broken installation
[18:45] <floating> alpha2 coming soon ?
[18:47] <floating> just decided to install lucid, and read about the known issues, and I can see an issue with nvidia graphics cards on alpha1. Seeing that alpha2 is coming today, i guess i'll be dodging that issue
[19:03] <charlie-tca> floating: alpha2 does not have usable nvidia restricted drivers yet
[19:04] <bjsnider> yeah but they gave it the ol' college try, didn't they?
[19:05] <dlublink> What's the "ol' college try" ?
[19:06] <dlublink> In Calvin and Hobbes it says "It's when you gather your friends, buy some cheap beer, order a pizza, and forget about tomorrow. "
[19:07] <fejes> on the bright side, as of this morning, lucid radeon driver is working again with dri/glx in non kms mode.
[19:11] <yofel> charlie-tca: I'm using nvidia-current and it works fine
[19:50] <sebsebseb> Hi
[20:11] <dlublink> hi
[20:14] <wall[e]> hello, anyone can help me with wacom on lucid?
[20:14] <wall[e]> i tried to install driver xserver-xorg-input-wacom but it refused to install.
[20:16] <Alexia_Death> wall[e]: if lucid has 1.7 xserver, then that driver is obolete
[20:16] <Alexia_Death> obsolete*
[20:16] <Alexia_Death> witch is why it wont install
[20:16] <wall[e]> Alexia_Death: will recompiling package help?
[20:16] <Alexia_Death> wall[e]: no. newer Xorgs need a digferent driver
[20:16] <wall[e]> Alexia_Death: what's the best way i can do?
[20:17] <wall[e]> install 1.6 xserver?
[20:17] <Alexia_Death> wall[e]: no, I think thats not good.
[20:17] <wall[e]> i guess i should try to port the wacom driver for 1.7 then?
[20:18] <Alexia_Death> wall[e]: Its done already
[20:18] <Alexia_Death> but you will need to build
[20:18] <Alexia_Death> Im trying to find you the info you need.
[20:18] <Alexia_Death> its been discussed on linux wacom list several times now.
[20:18] <wall[e]> ah thanks a lot.
[20:19] <wall[e]> looks like it points me to wacom-tools instead..
[20:19] <wall[e]> I don't quite understand this..
[20:20] <Alexia_Death> wall[e]: git://linuxwacom.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/linuxwacom/xf86-input-wacom
[20:20] <wall[e]> Alexia_Death: thanks!
[20:20] <Alexia_Death> thats where you can get the source for 17
[20:21] <dlublink> 12 + 5
[20:21] <Alexia_Death> 1.7*
[20:21] <Alexia_Death> :P
[20:21] <wall[e]> ok.
[20:22] <Alexia_Death> wall[e]: if you have one of those new bamboo pen&touch devices you will need the kernel driver from linuxwacom project aswell I think.
[20:23] <DanaG> hmm, oh yeah, speaking of that device... how does the touch part work?
[20:23] <DanaG> Real multi-finger, or just emulated wheel?
[20:23] <Alexia_Death> may be wrong tho. if you have /dev/input/wacom ifthetablet is connected you should be set kernel side
[20:24] <Alexia_Death> DanaG: From what I hear on the list, real multitouch. There has been even talk of piping the second finger as a sepparate event  stream.
[20:24] <wall[e]> Alexia_Death: i have intuos 4
[20:25] <wall[e]> ok, thanks, i think i should restart X11
[20:25] <Alexia_Death> wall[e]: that is sort of iffy, might or might not be there.
[20:25]  * wall[e] should use console client
[20:25] <wall[e]> thanks :)
[20:34] <wall[e]> Alexia_Death: it works, thanks a lot!
[20:35] <Alexia_Death> welcome:)
[20:35] <wall[e]> :)
[20:35] <dupondje> Alpha 2 already there ? :)
[20:41] <charlie-tca> not according to the header here.
[20:46] <genii> Theres a freeze but no A2 release yet, AFAIK
[21:09] <gnomefreak> is anyone else missing TTYs?
[21:10] <fejes> I wasn't this morning, though I'm finding X starting on tty7, dying and restarting on tty8
[21:10] <fejes> I just can't access my ttys because of video corruption
[21:10] <lokad> my x is dead :(
[21:10] <gnomefreak> fejes: i have it on F7 but i am missing all others
[21:10] <fejes> odd.
[21:10] <gnomefreak> lokad: nvidia?
[21:10] <lokad> intel
[21:11] <gnomefreak> ah
[21:11] <lokad> black screen with kms, segfault without
[21:11] <fejes> odd.
[21:11] <lokad> i wait for alpha2 there are already a couple of bugs filed
[21:12] <fejes> with kms, I get weird vertical stripes everywhere, but it works without on a radeon
[21:12]  * gnomefreak gets horizontal strips on the top of all TTYs
[21:13] <fejes> that sounds like an improvement over my stripes.
[21:13] <fejes> trade? (-:
[21:13]  * gnomefreak will see what i can do about mine but i would love to know if it is the kernel causing it
[21:13] <dragon> Is lucid-alpha-2 out?
[21:14] <fejes> rumour says no.  Freeze is on, release has not yet happened.
[21:14] <gnomefreak> dragon: no. the topic will be updated when it is out
[21:14] <dragon> okay, the release was scheduled for today.
[21:14] <dragon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[21:15] <gnomefreak> dragon: today is not the same for everyone
[21:16] <charlie-tca> And the release needs to pass testing if it is to be usable
[21:16] <lokad> pacific still has some today left *g*
[21:16] <charlie-tca> The dates are not set in stone\
[21:17] <dragon> charlie-tca: makes sense.
[21:17] <dragon> I agree that quality is more important.
[21:17] <fejes> it's only 1pm here.
[21:17] <fejes> plenty of time.
[21:17] <sebsebseb> alpha 2 delayed ok I guess, but hopefuly the final won't be or the RC
[21:18] <dragon> fejes: The releases come out at 10am PST.
[21:18] <sebsebseb> well two hours and a bit, and it will be the 15th in half of the world
[21:18] <fejes> dragon: delays happen.
[21:18] <charlie-tca> actually, it is now 1:18 pm PST
[21:18] <dragon> sebsebseb: Yeah, final dates need to be set in stone. There's plenty of time and testing for the final in any case.
[21:19] <dragon> Thu Jan 14 13:19:07 PST 2010
[21:19] <sebsebseb> dragon: well  the first LTS got delayed by two months
[21:19] <sebsebseb> any idea why?
[21:19] <dragon> sebsebseb: was that in 2006?
[21:19] <sebsebseb> dragon: yes
[21:19] <dragon> I didn't know about it.
[21:20] <sebsebseb> well I guess since it was the first one, they had to make sure it was pretty good
[21:20] <gnomefreak> sebsebseb: there were things we wanted to add so in a meeting it was decided to push release a little bit to make it more stable
[21:20] <sebsebseb> even if it meant being delayed
[21:20] <sebsebseb> gnomefreak: oh right
[21:21] <sebsebseb> gnomefreak: such as?
[21:21] <gnomefreak> sebsebseb: dapper was going to be a new theme and stuff but it didnt work out so we had to fix it
[21:22] <sebsebseb> ok
[21:22] <sebsebseb> on the subject of new themes
[21:22] <sebsebseb> Lucid is meant to have quite a differnet look isn't it?
[21:22] <sebsebseb> some adding to Gnome, but  also things being more transparant or something?
[21:22] <sebsebseb> editing not adding above
[21:22] <dragon> I heard that, but alpha-1 looked quite similar to karmic.
[21:23] <sebsebseb> dragon: well yeah, but that's alpha 1
[21:23] <dragon> do we have gnome 2.30 in final lucid?
[21:23] <sebsebseb> dragon: the  newer  non under the hood stuff, doesn't tend to come untill later on,  I read that the social features will be in alpha 3
[21:23] <dragon> Tech Specs didn't mention the version of gnome in lucid
[21:24] <dragon> sebsebseb: that makes sense
[21:24] <lokad> alpha 1 had hal removed ...
[21:24] <sebsebseb> dragon: well I thought alpha 1 had plymouth for boot up as well, but  that booted up not that well  in  my vm
[21:24] <gnomefreak> it was romored to have gnome-3.0 but weather that happens or not has not been decided
[21:25] <sebsebseb> dragon: it will be 2.30 I think yeah, but I read they will be keeping  evolution back on the 2.28 version
[21:25] <dragon> sebsebseb: yes, but it looked all same, even time-wise.
[21:25] <dragon> sebsebseb: that'd be good.
[21:25] <gnomefreak> sebsebseb: it will. IIRC ther eis a bug on it that it is not removing usplash and installing plymouth. if you install plymouth it kind of works
[21:25] <sebsebseb> dragon: why do you think that, and I don't use evolution
[21:26] <sebsebseb> gnomefreak: oh right well when alpha 2 is out, i'll do a new vm.  plus I tried to upgrade my alpha 1 vm a bit whenever it was, but things didn't really work out properly, but oh well
[21:26] <dragon> sebsebseb: I mean the Gnome 2.30 part of your statement. Evolution doesn't work for me any way.
[21:26] <sebsebseb> !work
[21:26] <sebsebseb> dragon: oh?
[21:27] <sebsebseb> I like web mail,  and if I am going to use an email client well Mozilla Thunderbird :)
[21:27] <sebsebseb> Thunderbird 3 is nearly ready
[21:28] <BluesKaj> sebsebseb, is there a beta ?
[21:28] <sebsebseb> BluesKaj: yes there's something that can be tried
[21:29] <dragon> sebsebseb: It's more like, evolution sits on the couch all day, eats memory, gets fat and slows down the entire thing.
[21:29] <BluesKaj> I normally use gmail, but did use t-bird for many years and i still have it installed
[21:29] <sebsebseb> dragon: heh in a way I guess
[21:29] <sebsebseb> :)
[21:29] <sebsebseb> BluesKaj: yeah gmail is good
[21:29] <dragon> it's the memory bugs that I try to run away from
[21:29] <dragon> but gnome pulls evolution-data-server in any way.
[21:31] <sebsebseb> dragon: Kmail is also pretty good I guess,  as far as using the program though, opening up and that's about it or whatever
[21:31] <sebsebseb> like evolution
[21:32] <sebsebseb> well evolution needs accounts setting up, before it's of much use
[21:33] <sebsebseb> dragon: data server?
[21:33] <yofel> BluesKaj: TB3 is released, but for Ubuntu there's only the mozilla-daily-ppa yet, but we'll have it soon in lucid (until alpha3 at least)
[21:33] <dragon> sebsebseb: i haven't tried kmail, but kde stuff is quite promising in general.
[21:33] <yofel> kmail is quite nice indeed
[21:33] <sebsebseb> dragon: KDE 4 is getting better yeah
[21:34] <dragon> sebsebseb: yeah, it's a process that runs in the background with that name in gnome.
[21:34] <sebsebseb> dragon: and then slows stuff down?
[21:34] <sebsebseb> yofel: TB3 will soon be in lucid?  untill apha 3?  uh?
[21:35] <dragon> sebsebseb: it seldom starts hogging memory and bloats up to 900+MiB
[21:35] <sebsebseb> Web mail for the win! :)
[21:35] <dragon> sebsebseb: I filed a bug report etc., but it's a little hard to reproduce.
[21:35] <dragon> sebsebseb: yep, Gmail gets the job done. Combine that with chromium, and you have one that looks like a desktop app.
[21:36] <sebsebseb> so alpha 2  Friday UTC  I guess
[21:36] <sebsebseb> UTC/GMT
[21:36] <yofel> sebsebseb: bug 314668
[21:36] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 314668 in baltix "[needs-packaging] Thunderbird 3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/314668
[21:37] <sebsebseb> dragon: oh your one of the  chromeium/chrome fan boys (well not fan boy as such, but you get what I mean I guess)
[21:37] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 314668 in baltix "[needs-packaging] Thunderbird 3" [Undecided,New]
[21:37] <ubott2> Ubuntu bug 314668 in baltix "[needs-packaging] Thunderbird 3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/314668
[21:37] <yofel> argh, bot #fail...
[21:37] <sebsebseb> seems quite a few people are thinking chromeium/chrome is better than Firefox,  but not enough of them to gain most of the browser market share
[21:38] <yofel> good ubott2...
[21:38] <dragon> sebsebseb: chromium works; it gets the job done in lesser time, similar memory resources, lesser CPU.
[21:38] <sebsebseb> oh and FIrefox does not have that either, but  it does have more market share these days, than  versions of IE on their own,  but with all the versions IE still has most of the market
[21:39] <sebsebseb> yofel: Do you package stuff for Ubuntu?
[21:39] <yofel> sebsebseb: no, I just follow the bug
[21:39] <sebsebseb> yofel: ok
[21:39] <yofel> I don't know enough about packaging for that yet ^^
[21:39] <dragon> IE is for those who don't know what a browser is.
[21:40] <sebsebseb> dragon: well I read that the netbook version of Ubuntu will have  chromeium instead of FIrefox, becasue of it uses lesser resources or whatever the reason/s was/are
[21:40] <dragon> that's true. Chromium isn't stable though.
[21:40] <sebsebseb> dragon: it's not stable yet?
[21:40] <dragon> sebsebseb: on linux, I think it's not.
[21:41] <dragon> I'm using the daily builds, and technically it is stable, but it crashes or breaks at least once every fortnight.
[21:41] <dragon> They call it the "daily build"
[21:41] <dragon> and unstable version is available too.
[21:42] <sebsebseb> IE is for those that don't know what a browser is, that sounds about right.  Well  a browser options screen is coming to Europe soon as a Microsoft update.  Since Microsoft have made the European Commision unhappy a few times etc.  It will offer people choice of 11 or so browsers.  This is also off topic really.
[21:43] <dragon> sebsebseb: that's really good for open source.
[21:43] <njin> i'm here
[21:43] <robin0800> sebsebseb: I like google Chrome
[21:43] <yofel> hi njin
[21:44] <sebsebseb> That screen will be for Windows 7 sure,  maybe Vista as well, but  XP  I wonder.  Plus they got to do it for five years, so I guess the next Windows will have it as well.
[21:44] <njin> Hy everybody
[21:44] <sebsebseb> dragon: well sure, altough Opera will be one of the options
[21:44] <yofel> njin: do you get anything in dmesg when it disconnects?
[21:44] <sebsebseb> ,but  that's fine, Opera does a good job at following web standards, just like FIrefox, and Chrome and Chromeium etc
[21:44] <sebsebseb> njin: hi
[21:45] <njin> I've got wireless problem (frequent disconnections) with d-link dwl-g510g
[21:45] <sebsebseb> njin: with Lucid?
[21:45] <njin> yes
[21:45] <sebsebseb> ok not my area, but this might be helpful
[21:45] <sebsebseb> !wireless
[21:46] <fejes> I had that problem back in karmic.  Turned out turning of tkip solved the problem.
[21:46] <gnomefreak> and bug is filed :)
[21:47] <sebsebseb> gnomefreak: bug for what?
[21:47] <gnomefreak> sebsebseb: TTYs
[21:47] <sebsebseb> ok I don't know what that is
[21:47] <dragon> Is there a way to get notified when alpha-2 comes out?
[21:48] <yofel> fejes: and what do you use now? (please don't say unencrypted or wep)
[21:48] <dragon> except for pinging a URL for HTTP code 200
[21:48] <gnomefreak> sebsebseb: its a terminal if you use F1-6 and GUI is on F7
[21:48] <sebsebseb> yofel: heh
[21:48] <sebsebseb> in a way
[21:48] <sebsebseb> I guess
[21:48] <njin> here a part of system log 31.164123] rt61pci 0000:00:0c.0: firmware: requesting rt2561.bin
[21:48] <njin> what mean?
[21:48] <sebsebseb> gnomefreak: oh right that
[21:48] <sebsebseb> I know what you mean
[21:49] <njin> that it require rt2561 instead rt61 ??
[21:49] <fejes> yofel: WPA2 + AES
[21:49] <yofel> fejes: then good :D
[21:50] <fejes> yofel: indeed (+
[21:50] <fejes> (=
[21:50] <fejes> tkip just didn't work well with karmic for me.
[21:50] <fejes> hopefully that changes in lucid
[21:51] <njin> what is tkip
[21:51] <fejes> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_Key_Integrity_Protocol
[21:57] <yofel> njin: that should just mean that your wireless driver needs a firmware to use you wireless card, nothing unusual
[21:57] <yofel> njin: does it show anything for the time you get a disconnect?
[21:58] <njin> no, nothings
[21:58] <yofel> hm...
[21:58] <njin> just disconnected
[21:59] <yofel> well, wireless debugging isn't quite my expertiese either...
[21:59] <njin> here dmesg [ 2332.515103] wlan0: authenticated
[21:59] <njin> [ 2332.515135] wlan0: associate with AP 00:19:5b:9b:b8:2e (try 1)
[21:59] <njin> [ 2332.523684] wlan0: RX ReassocResp from 00:19:5b:9b:b8:2e (capab=0x471 status=0 aid=1)
[21:59] <njin> [ 2332.523690] wlan0: associated
[21:59] <njin> [ 5684.500042] No probe response from AP 00:19:5b:9b:b8:2e after 500ms, disconnecting.
[22:01] <yofel> njin: thx, but please use a pastebin service next time
[22:01] <yofel> !pastebin | njin
[22:01] <floating> i have nvidia geforece ti4200 128mb, old video card. If I install lucid, will it use which driver, and will it crash x
[22:01] <floating> yofel, u said u r not experiencing crashes with your nvidia ?
[22:02] <yofel> floating: well, by default it should use NV afaik
[22:02] <DanaG> well, if a 4MX is anything like a 4TI will be, you can expect the binary drivers to just segfault Xorg.
[22:02] <DanaG> nouveau works nicely, though.
[22:02] <DanaG> 2D only.
[22:02] <floating> which driver do you use ?
[22:03] <Michalxo> hello! Does A2 came out or not? yet..
[22:03] <bjsnider> nouveau will not be fast on that old junk, but nothing else will either
[22:03] <DanaG> hmm, what ever did happen with those pulseaudio device-manager features planned to go into KDE?
[22:03] <DanaG> http://colin.guthr.ie/2009/10/so-how-does-the-kde-pulseaudio-support-work-anyway/
[22:03] <sebsebseb> Michalxo: no, but Friday probably
[22:04] <sebsebseb> or maybe, not sure, but yes it's delayed
[22:04] <floating> nvidia-current it was. So there is nv, nvidia-current, nouveau and vesa available for this card or ?
[22:05] <Michalxo> aha, so that's why it's unaccessible
[22:05] <Michalxo> thank you ;-)
[22:05] <sebsebseb> Michalxo: np
[22:05] <yofel> DanaG: I heard too that it was planned but lost track of it. Pulseaudio works fine in KDE for me, but I have to use pavucontrol to configure it :/
[22:05] <DanaG> hmm, so how can I try 3D on nouveau?
[22:06] <DanaG> Just mesa needed, or librm, too?
[22:07] <bjsnider> floating, nvidia-current is not available for that card
[22:07] <bjsnider> only geforce 6k or newer
[22:07] <floating> ok
[22:08] <floating> is that bnx2 something that will affect me I wonder.
[22:08] <floating> hmm, I guess that is fixed for the release that comes today
[22:08] <DanaG> ah, galliumhowto.
[22:09] <floating> how about this "Manual partitioning in the graphical installer is reported to cause the installer to crash. Investigation of this issue is ongoing." If I use the alternate cd and text-based install, the manual partitioning should be fine ?
[22:10] <yofel> floating: should be (different installer)
[22:20] <hyances_> Hi!  ¿Is Alpha2 out?
[22:23] <sebsebseb> hyances_: no delayed
[22:28]  * DanaG is trying installing nouveau mesa on nv17.
[22:28] <DanaG> er, is gallium "not mesa", or something?
[22:29] <DanaG> I really don't get exactly what Gallium is.
[22:32] <lokad> bye
[22:35] <gnomefreak> depends on the context but it is a metal
[22:35] <DanaG> =þ
[22:43] <RAOF> DanaG: gallium is essentially a library for writing drivers for highly-programmable graphics hardware.
[22:44] <RAOF> It's like mesa, but starts from the premise “you've got a programmable-pipeline GPU available, with shaders and such”.
[22:46] <DanaG> hmm, then what'll be done for non-programmable stuff?
[22:48] <RAOF> Well, there was work to do a pseudo-programmable pipeline for gallium (using the kinda-programmable stuff that nv2x has).  But what's happening now is that old nvidia cards won't be using gallium; they'll be doing a classic mesa driver.
[22:50] <RAOF> This sucks in that you won't get any of the cool stuff that gallium drivers are getting for almost-free - OpenGL 3.0, OpenVG acceleration, VDPAU, etc.
[22:50] <RAOF> On the other hand, your card probably doesn't actually handle any of that, so :P
[22:50] <DanaG> Yeah, I just want to be able to use some of the compiz effects.
[22:50] <DanaG> a.k.a. the ones that worked way back before nvidia 96 stopped being able to do anything but segfault.
[22:51] <DanaG> that "4" mx has NO pixel shaders at all.
[22:51] <RAOF> The classic mesa driver isn't anywhere near that state, IIRC.  You can give it a try, though I think it's still at the “can now render textured triangles!” stage.
[22:54] <DanaG> hmm, I remember trying it once and having compiz almost work.... but crash upon trying to create windows.
[22:55] <bjsnider> RAOF, if you want all of those cool things, buy a new graphics card
[22:57] <iflema> is the gimp being ripped out???
[22:58] <oorah> are we in alpha 2 yet?
[22:58] <oorah> some reason usb devices are not detected on msi wind u100
[23:00] <iflema> alpha 2 go... yes
[23:01] <oorah> will usb detection be fixed soon?
[23:03] <iflema> she's an alpha..... and thats a large scope :)
[23:04] <iflema> beta(s) and rc in april/march, final due late April