[02:00] <IdleOne> I am very unhappy with the state of xchat :(
[02:00] <IdleOne> channel hilighting is all messed up
[02:01] <crimsun> apt-get source xchat, hack away, submit patches
[02:01] <IdleOne> crimsun: I don't code, sadly but maybe I need to learn
[02:01] <bjsnider> yeah, just to improve xchat
[02:02] <IdleOne> heh why not lol
[02:03] <IdleOne> the last update to xchat made it basically unusable for me. I can't keep track of channels properly anymore
[02:03] <bjsnider> which one are you using? there's xchat and xchat-gnbome
[02:03] <IdleOne> xchat
[02:03] <IdleOne> not gnome.
[02:03] <bjsnider> what's the problem with it?
[02:04] <IdleOne> the channel tabs highlight on msg. normally after I click it the tab goes from red to grey. Now it stays red so I don't see when a msg was sent to channel. granted in a busy channel it is useless but in quiet channels I can see when a msg was sent
[02:05] <bjsnider> doesn't do that here
[02:05] <bjsnider> but i'm using karmic
[02:05] <IdleOne> yeah on lucid
[02:05] <IdleOne> was fine until yesterday
[02:06] <bjsnider> you mean there are updates and changes to schat?
[02:06] <bjsnider> this will be the first i've heard of it
[02:06] <IdleOne> apperently
[02:06] <bjsnider> i thought it was a dead project
[02:06] <IdleOne> well someone must of updated something
[02:07] <IdleOne> and broke the channel highlight for me at least
[02:08] <bjsnider> !info xchat lucid
[02:08] <bjsnider> !info xchat karmic
[02:08] <bjsnider> both are 2.8.6-4
[02:08] <bjsnider> same upstream version
[02:08] <bjsnider> the ubuntu packager broke it
[02:08] <IdleOne> yes but ubuntu2 in karmic
[02:09] <IdleOne> and ubuntu4 in lucid
[02:09] <IdleOne> so something changed
[02:09] <bjsnider> check the changelog
[02:10] <bjsnider> find the guy who released it and tell him he's buggered it up
[02:10] <IdleOne> where do I check the changelog?
[02:10] <IdleOne> LP
[02:10] <crimsun> zless /usr/share/doc/xchat/changelog.Debian.gz
[02:10] <crimsun> or
[02:10] <crimsun> aptitude changelog xchat
[02:10] <crimsun> or
[02:11] <crimsun> (yes, LP: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat)
[02:11] <IdleOne> oh seriously? I didn't know aptitude did changelogs
[02:11] <bjsnider> !info xchat hardy
[02:12] <bjsnider> ok, there has been a patch-level release in 2 years
[02:12] <bjsnider> so iguess it isn't completely dead
[02:12] <bjsnider> but it ain't exactly the linux kernel
[02:12] <IdleOne> recent changes were updates to support ircd seven
[02:14] <crimsun> try https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/xchat/lucid for revision summaries
[02:16] <bjsnider> the ubuntu packager shouldn't be doing anything but changing the build scripts and if he is adding support for something, it is in a patch. so maybe the patch is buggy
[02:19] <IdleOne> this was latest patch * debian/patches/99_fix_implicit_declaration.dpatch: Fix "implicitly converted
[02:19] <IdleOne>     to pointer at ignoregui.c:192" error in amd64 and ia64 builds. Patch taken
[02:19] <IdleOne>     from opensuse.
[02:19] <IdleOne> I don't know what that means exactly or if it would even affect me ( 32 bit here )
[02:20] <IdleOne> but this started on the 15th. same day as that update
[02:21] <bjsnider> this information should be going to the developer through what we call a "bug"
[02:21] <bjsnider> if you submit a bug on xchat this guy will get the bug report because his email address is in the control file
[02:21] <IdleOne> already emailed fabricesp@ubuntu.com about it and I did submit a bug earlier today
[02:21] <bjsnider> so do that thing
[02:22] <bjsnider> coolio
[02:22] <IdleOne> so basically I was just complaining earlier :)
[02:22] <IdleOne> but I learned about aptitude changelog package :) thanks crimsun
[02:22] <bjsnider> you submitted a bug on xchat and not xchat-gnome right?
[02:22] <IdleOne> correct
[02:22] <bjsnider> because xchat-gnome is even more unusable
[02:23] <IdleOne> oh, I know.
[02:23] <bjsnider> that thing should probably be pulled from the archive
[02:23] <IdleOne> don't know if it is unusable but it is less feature full
[02:24] <IdleOne> seems like a really basic client. xchat is basic enough as it is
[02:27] <bjsnider> xchat doesn't support emoticons for some reason
[02:27] <bjsnider> seems like that's a basic feature
[02:28] <IdleOne> thank god it doesnt
[02:28] <IdleOne> irc should remain irc not become a clone of IM
[02:33] <IdleOne> why do I get updates to nvidia packages if I don't have any nvidia hardware?
[02:35] <fulvi0> hi all
[02:35] <Anthropod16> lol, im having the exact opposite problem, idle.
[02:35] <IdleOne> Anthropod16: lol
[02:35] <IdleOne> hello fulvi0
[02:35] <bjsnider> IdleOne, it's probably nvidia-common, jockey and the modaliases packages, which are necessary in case you do have nvidia hardware
[02:35] <IdleOne> in case?
[02:35] <IdleOne> I don't
[02:35] <IdleOne> they are taking up precious storage space
[02:36] <bjsnider> yes, just as you have a bunch of xorg stuff that covers all possible graphics hardware
[02:36] <IdleOne> ok, you win
[02:36] <bjsnider> now go out and buy an nvidia card
[02:36] <IdleOne> nahh I'm good
[02:37] <IdleOne> I like my intel hardware
[02:37] <IdleOne> WFM!
[02:38] <Anthropod16> Hmmm, so is it likely a jockey problem is when i type dkms status and nvidia is added and not installed?
[02:39] <fulvi0> who can help me with a problem? ubuntu does not recognize the monitor :S
[02:39] <fulvi0> i have a dell mini 10
[02:40] <fulvi0> ????
[02:41] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, negative. jockey does not touch dkms. reinstall nvidia-current
[02:41] <Anthropod16> ok
[02:42] <bjsnider> assuming that's the appropriate driver for you hardware
[02:42] <fulvi0> ubuntu does not recognize the monitor, how can i install? :S
[02:43] <bjsnider> fulvi0, first thing i would do, is probably use a stable distro, which lucid ain't. karmic or hardy
[02:44] <fulvi0> karmic
[02:44] <fulvi0> 9.10
[02:45] <Anthropod16> ok here is the error that i keep getting: E: /var/cache/apt/archives/nvidia-glx-190_190.53-0ubuntu1~karmic~nvidiavdpauppa8_i386.deb: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 2
[02:45] <bjsnider> if you're using karmic you shouldn't be asking in here, as it is off-topic
[02:45] <Anthropod16> oh, ok
[02:46] <td123> what is so special about empathy that it replaced pidgin?
[02:46] <IdleOne> telepathy tubes
[02:47] <bjsnider> oh, not this again
[02:47] <IdleOne> the tubes allow empathy to read your mind provided you install the proper plugin
[02:47] <bjsnider> td123, you can give someone else, probably jack the ripper or someone, complete control of your computer from a remote location
[02:47] <IdleOne> :)
[02:47] <bjsnider> and ain't that great
[02:47] <fulvi0> how can i? (pardon my ignorance but I am new to ubuntu)
[02:47] <IdleOne> bjsnider: that is not true
[02:48] <IdleOne> well partially true
[02:48] <bjsnider> uh huh
[02:48] <td123> so empathy has some sort of remote desktop feature?
[02:48] <IdleOne> td123: yes
[02:48] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, when did this happen?
[02:49] <td123> wow, isn't that basically a security issue?
[02:49] <bjsnider> no, of course it isn't
[02:49] <bjsnider> what makes you think it's a security issue?
[02:49] <IdleOne> td123: more like a share desktop feature and you can give permission to let the other person control also
[02:49] <IdleOne> bjsnider: it's not like it automatically gives root access
[02:50] <td123> dunno, doesn't ubuntu already have a built in remote destop feature?
[02:50] <IdleOne> td123: yes, empathy's feature is to simulate yahoo's share desktop feature
[02:51] <Anthropod16> after i did a package update.
[02:51] <td123> IdleOne: I mean another way, besides empathy
[02:51] <IdleOne> td123: yes.
[02:51] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, ok, more details than that would be helpful
[02:52] <td123> ok whatever :P
[02:52] <td123> idc, pidgin is a command away from being installed, just annoying
[02:54] <Anthropod16> Well, i upgraded my distro about 2 weeks ago. the other day i did a package update and my nvidia driver was not found (before the desktop showed) and used decreased quality graphics. I changed the xconfig to nv and then it has shown, but then going to hardware drivers the nvidia driver is not shown
[02:56] <Anthropod16> i have an nvidia geforce go 7200, im trying to install the recommended driver for 'go' cards by the nvidia website
[02:56] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, you upgraded to karmic or lucid?
[02:56] <Anthropod16> karmic
[02:57] <bjsnider> you upgraded from jaunty?
[02:57] <Anthropod16> yes
[02:57] <fulvi0> someone can't help with the monitor
[02:57] <fulvi0> :s
[02:59] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, and how did you end up with the nvidia-vdpau ppa?
[02:59] <Some_Person> Can anyone tell me if the package ``human-theme'' conflicts with ``gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks'' in lucid?
[02:59] <Anthropod16> i installed it after i was having trouble.
[03:00] <bjsnider> so you already had a broken nvidia blob before you tried the ppa package
[03:01] <bjsnider> you have not discovered the cause of the original problem
[03:01] <Anthropod16> not really, i figured since the resolution changed after i changed the xconfig that it was fixed
[03:02] <bjsnider> wait, do you mean nvidia-xconfig? have you been using that command?
[03:03] <Anthropod16> that is what my nvidia x server said to do. which i did first
[03:04] <Anthropod16> now it cannot even find the command
[03:07] <bjsnider> your error says the preinst script exited with an error. that script removes diversions and then adds new ones. so your system probably has borked diversions from an older nvidia driver
[03:08] <Anthropod16> ok, i have reinstalled my previous kernel source and glx
[03:09] <Anthropod16> do i need to reboot to see the effect?
[03:09] <bjsnider> no
[03:09] <bjsnider> pastebin your /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[03:10] <Anthropod16> pastebin?
[03:10] <bjsnider> !pastebin
[03:12] <Some_Person> Can anyone tell me if the package ``human-theme'' conflicts with ``gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks'' in lucid?
[03:13] <Anthropod16> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m1ffd2217
[03:15] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, what does dkms status get you?
[03:16] <Anthropod16> nvidia, 185.18.36: added
[03:16] <bjsnider> not acceptable. it needs to say installed, not added
[03:16] <bjsnider> it is not even built
[03:17] <Anthropod16> oh, is that the dkms build nvidia 12.18.36?
[03:17] <bjsnider> it's in the packaging scripts
[03:17] <bjsnider> reinstall nvidia-glx-180
[03:18] <bjsnider> or 185
[03:18] <Anthropod16> ok
[03:18] <bjsnider> !info nvidia-glx-185 karmic
[03:18] <bjsnider> reinstall that
[03:20] <bjsnider> reinstall nvidia-185-kernel-source too
[03:21] <Anthropod16> bah, i reinstalled both but dkms says the same
[03:21] <bjsnider> there must be an error message ont eh command line of the kernel source package
[03:21] <bjsnider> it is not doing its job
[03:23] <Anthropod16> ughh
[03:23] <bjsnider> try this: sudo apt-get purge nvidia-glx-185 nvidia-185-kernel-source
[03:23] <bjsnider> then install them
[03:24] <Anthropod16> k
[03:25] <bjsnider> good thing installing graphics drivers is an easy, transparent process for regular users
[03:27] <Anthropod16> my god...
[03:27] <Anthropod16> i have a feeling im doing something stupid.
[03:28] <Anthropod16> from the update: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m11a6fff8
[03:29] <bjsnider> what kernel are you using?
[03:29] <bjsnider> !info linux-image karmic
[03:31] <Anthropod16> linux 2.6.31-17-generic (i686)
[03:31] <bjsnider> alright, first of all, disable the ppa
[03:31] <Anthropod16> ok
[03:32] <bjsnider> after that: sudo apt-get autoclean
[03:32] <bjsnider> then update and purge the packages like before
[03:33] <bjsnider> then try to reinstall, and this time you'll be grabbing the archive version
[03:34] <Anthropod16> nvidia-glx-185:
[03:34] <Anthropod16>  Depends: nvidia-185-libvdpau but it is not going to be installed
[03:35] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, purge nvidia-190-libvdpau
[03:36] <Anthropod16> couldnt find package.
[03:38] <bjsnider> try to install nvidia-185-libvdpau and see why it refuses
[03:40] <Anthropod16> that worked
[03:40] <Anthropod16> but then kernel source and glx didnt
[03:43] <Anthropod16> it says to check make.log for why it wouldnt build, so im there
[03:44] <Anthropod16> and it says The C compiler 'cc' does not appear to be able to
[03:44] <Anthropod16> create executables.  Please make sure you have
[03:44] <Anthropod16> your Linux distribution's gcc and libc development
[03:44] <Anthropod16> packages installed.
[03:44] <IdleOne> Anthropod16: what did you do to your install lol
[03:44] <Anthropod16> i made a big goof i think, lol.
[03:44] <IdleOne> Anthropod16: install build-essential
[03:45] <bjsnider> build-essential is not necessary
[03:45] <Anthropod16> lol, same error.
[03:45] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, use pastebin to show me the last go around
[03:45] <IdleOne> oh wait yeah you need the -dev
[03:46] <Anthropod16> the make.log?
[03:47] <bjsnider> no, not the make.log, the attempt to install the kernel source package
[03:49] <Anthropod16> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m55ae70f8
[03:49] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, you said you upgraded to karmic. how did you go about doing that?
[03:49] <Some_Person> Can anyone tell me if the package ``human-theme'' conflicts with ``gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks'' in lucid?
[03:49] <Anthropod16> through the update manager.
[03:51] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, update-manager prompted you to upgrade to karmic, or you tried manually?
[03:52] <Anthropod16> i think i clicked the Karmic Koala is out!" in update manager
[03:53] <Anthropod16> did i goof?
[03:54] <RAOF> Some_Person: It Conflicts: and Replaces:, which means that it'll cleanly remove gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks, yes.
[03:55] <Anthropod16> your lack of response is scaring me.
[03:56] <Some_Person> RAOF: Urgh, why the hell won't the ubuntu devs fix that age old bug?!
[03:57] <Some_Person> If a 16 year old guy like me with little programming experience can fix it for karmic, why can't they do it?
[03:57] <RAOF> Probably because no-one's been interested?  Have you attached a debdiff to the bug?
[03:57] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, was the process interrupted or were there error messages?
[03:58] <Anthropod16> no. i remember everything ran smoothly.
[03:58] <bjsnider> evidently not so smoothly as you think
[03:58] <Anthropod16> :S
[03:59] <Anthropod16> yeah, i didnt get the ubuntu software center
[03:59] <Some_Person> The only problem is that part of the old Human theme (back when it used the ubuntulooks engine) is in gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks. Rename that to Human-ubuntulooks or delete that, and all works fine
[03:59] <RAOF> Some_Person: It clearly requires changes to both gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks (which is abandoned, by the way), and to human-theme.
[03:59] <Some_Person> The only change to human-theme is to remove the conflicts line
[04:00] <Some_Person> I did it here for karmic: https://launchpad.net/~stownsend42/+archive/ubuntulooks-fix
[04:00] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, i suppose you could check your gcc packages to make sure they're karmic versions and everything
[04:01] <RAOF> Right.  But someone has to *do* that.  And a sponsorable-debdiff on a bug has a much lower “ok, I'll do that” threshold than “here's how to do it” or “it's broken”.
[04:01] <Anthropod16> !gcc
[04:01] <RAOF> I guess the fact that gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks has been abandoned wouldn't help motivation, either.
[04:02] <Anthropod16> how would i do that?
[04:02] <Some_Person> yeah, but this is an easy-as-hell fix that lets you use a lot of themes (several in the ubuntu repos) without trashing human-theme
[04:03] <Some_Person> ok, how do I do a debdiff?
[04:03] <RAOF> !debdiff
[04:03] <Anthropod16> bjsnider, how would i check my gcc packages?
[04:04] <bjsnider> i'd do it through synaptic. others like to use various command line tricks
[04:04] <Anthropod16> oh, ok
[04:05] <Anthropod16> search for gcc, or....?
[04:05] <Some_Person> Whoops, there's really no need to: someone already friggin did one!
[04:06] <RAOF> Some_Person: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
[04:06] <Some_Person> and it was in january 09
[04:06] <Spirits-Sight> I am wondering, how can I get my ubuntu 10.04 alpha 1 to upgrade to alpha 2 with new kernel and what not as it seems like it did a update but not alot of the stuff it says is new tolk place it appears
[04:07] <Spirits-Sight> gnome is at 2.29.4 build date 01-06-2010
[04:10] <Anthropod16> bjsnider, all of the results for gcc in synaptic were for karmic :/
[04:14] <bjsnider> Anthropod16, your task at this point seems depressingly clear.
[04:14]  * Anthropod16 gives the little boy who's dog is gonna die face
[04:15] <Anthropod16> lol jk, what do i have to do?
[04:16] <IdleOne> backup,fresh install.
[04:16] <Anthropod16> ok
[04:18] <bjsnider> there are things i might do like purging everything i can and then installing fresh packages, but they're realtively advanced commands, and you seem unsure of yourself on that front
[04:19] <Anthropod16> yes, im not too advanced.
[04:22] <DanaG> ✈⃣
[04:22] <DanaG> heh, an "airplane" key. =þ
[04:22] <Anthropod16> Any suggestions as to the most efficient backing up method?
[04:23] <bjsnider> DanaG, what super-secret method did you use to make that happen?
[04:24] <Anthropod16> character map + key bind?
[04:24] <DanaG> gucharmap... "combining keycap".
[04:24] <DanaG> copied and pasted.
[04:24] <DanaG> two characters  there: airplane, and combining-keycap.
[04:26] <DanaG> ⃠
[04:27] <IdleOne>      ⃠
[04:27] <DanaG> s/d//
[04:27] <DanaG> er
[04:27] <DanaG> dang scroll
[04:28] <DanaG> last one: a⃫r⃫g⃫h⃫
[04:28] <DanaG> "combining diacritical marks for symbols"
[04:29] <bjsnider> diacritical...
[04:30] <DanaG> ✈⃠
[04:30] <DanaG> okay, /me closes gucharmap before people get too irritated. =þ
[04:35] <Anthropod16> is there anything that is particularly important to back up?
[04:37] <bjsnider> DanaG, i'm highly diacritical of you
[04:38] <DanaG> =þ
[04:44] <geitenneuker> high
[04:44] <geitenneuker> how can i see what graphic driver has being installed?
[04:45] <DanaG> low.
[04:45] <DanaG> =þ
[04:50] <geitenneuker> yeah ttl low
[04:50] <geitenneuker> :ø
[04:56] <geitenneuker> 2.6.33 and noveau comes to late i think
[04:57] <geitenneuker> following version of lucid lynx is spastic sparrow afaik
[04:57] <geitenneuker> lunatic lemur and spastic sparrow is a good release name
[04:58] <DanaG> what happens once they reach 'z'?
[04:59] <geitenneuker> it begins with aa
[04:59] <DanaG> LM 2010, NO 2011, PQ 2012, RS 2013, TU 2014, VW 2015, XY 2016, Z... 2017.
[04:59] <DanaG> so we have a while left yet.
[05:00] <geitenneuker> let me think
[05:02] <geitenneuker> they begin from new and add a II behind
[05:02] <geitenneuker> e.g 2030 lucid lynx II
[05:03] <geitenneuker> e.g 2030 lucid lynx reloaded
[05:03] <geitenneuker> or something
[05:25] <DanaG> hmm, what's a good cpu-only benchmark for Linux?
[05:46] <bjsnider> DanaG, i'm not sure you can do one that's 100% independent of any other possible choke point, notably ramspeed, but i'd try the phoronix-test-suite and h.264 decoding (without vdpau obviously)
[05:46] <bjsnider> h264 is a cpu-killer
[05:47] <DanaG> I'm pondering comparing the p4-celeron 1.6 with nv17 nouveau ... to the atom with Intel gpu.
[05:49] <geitenneuker> yeah
[05:50] <geitenneuker> did the cpu die?
[05:50] <geitenneuker> i love h264, because you need 4x less bandwitdh compared to mpeg2
[05:50] <geitenneuker> dvd quality with just 1mbit
[05:51] <RAOF> DanaG: Oooh.  That might be close :)
[05:53] <RAOF> The GPU is probably more powerful than the Intel one, at least :).  And the p4, while having a pretty poor per-cycle performance might still beat the in-order atom.
[05:54] <bjsnider> RAOF, but the p4 would have one extra special feature. it runs hot enough to fry an egg
[06:02] <RAOF> It does have that, too.  And were they still shipping celerons with no L2 cache in the p4 era?
[06:30] <DanaG> bjsnider: and that p4 has 15-minute battery life (old battery)... compared to the 7 hours the netbook claims (via acpi) to offer.
[06:31] <DanaG> whoever thought of putting a p4 in a laptop... was really stupid. And then making it a celeron?  Stupid squared.
[06:48] <DanaG> hmm, in gnome-mplayer, how do you grab a screenshot?
[09:19] <XamDM> is the nvidia-driver still broken ????
[09:19] <SwedeMike> XamDM: worked for me a week ago.
[09:20] <SwedeMike> or... started working again after a month of not working, then.
[09:20] <XamDM> SwedeMike, i can install it but only works with a modified xorg.conf but glx doesn't work
[09:22] <SwedeMike> you're talking about what nvidia driver? the restricted one? because that's not the one I was talking about.
[09:23] <XamDM> yes the restricted tested the nvidia-current and the nvidia-173 packages
[09:41] <hype_> Hi
[09:42] <hype_> anyone having issue with Alpha2 64bits Livecd? sems like gdm wont start (and i have no access to TTY's)
[09:50] <tgpraveen> hi I just upgraded to lucid from karmic and I think I have run into dependency hell
[09:50] <tgpraveen> this Is the output of my sudo apt-get upgrade
[09:51] <tgpraveen> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/358413/
[09:51] <tgpraveen> somebody please help
[10:03] <slytherin> tgpraveen: what does apt-get -f install say?
[10:05] <slytherin> tgpraveen: another issue is that post-inst script of package libavutil-extra-49 seems to be corrupt/malformed. May be this means that package download itself was corrupt.
[10:10] <tgpraveen> slytherin: trying one sec
[10:10] <tgpraveen> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/358422/
[10:10] <tgpraveen> slytherin: ^^
[10:11] <schmidtm> i just filed bug #509067 regarding a dependency problem of python-vm-builder on lucid amd64
[10:22] <aprilhare> hello
[10:23] <aprilhare> is it worth thinking about upgrading to lucid yet or should i wait?
[10:23] <CosmiChaos> theres no final lucid yet
[10:23] <CosmiChaos> so theres only possibility to upgrade to lucid alpha 2
[10:24] <CosmiChaos> keep in mind that it always is not a good idea to install alpha/beta on productive mashines/users that have a need for a permanent working system
[10:25] <arand> aprilhare: depends on how much breakage you're willing to hop through, at this point I'm guessing there might be still quite a few hurdles ahead...
[10:25] <CosmiChaos> you will likely experience crashs, bugs, things not working, things just missing ... :)
[10:26] <CosmiChaos> too, upgrading to final from a alpha/beta sometimes goes wrong in detail
[10:26] <aprilhare> arand: sounds like i should wait till beta :)
[10:27] <CosmiChaos> so better to reinstall mashine with a clean final when its released when now upgrading to an alpha/beta, but you can have a try ;)
[10:29] <BUGabundo_remote> morning
[10:30]  * BUGabundo_remote wonders if danag filed the stupid UI gnome tabs in bottom bug
[10:30] <aprilhare> what's gunna be the big thing to make me want lucid? :)
[10:31] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo_remote: I just upgraded to lucid and that tab at bottom is really irritating
[10:31] <CosmiChaos> aprilhare, on final it will be grub 2 by default, plymouth by default, no udev anymore, kernel 2.6.32, kde 4.4
[10:31] <BUGabundo_remote> tgpraveen: mind filing the bug in LP an upstream?
[10:31] <CosmiChaos> very quick boot as far as i can see
[10:31] <BUGabundo_remote> a bit busy here
[10:32] <arand> aprilhare: pitivi :þ
[10:32] <BUGabundo_remote> arand: :p
[10:32] <tgpraveen> aprilhare: check out the blueprints
[10:32] <CosmiChaos> aprilhare, too, we should have a working nouveaou driver for 10.04 and so KMS support for intel, radeon and nvidia
[10:33] <arand> There's some panel overhaul rumored as well I think...
[10:34] <CosmiChaos> what do you mean?
[10:35] <arand> Not quite sure, "panel overhaul" is pretty much all I've heard..
[10:35] <CosmiChaos> tgpraveen, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid is very uninformative for a conservative user
[10:37] <tgpraveen> arand: many new application indicators,etc are coming
[10:38] <tgpraveen> and there will be a me menu instead of fusa right now
[10:39] <CosmiChaos> i hope skinning gdm with gdm-themes instead of complicated switching gtk-themes will work soon or is planned to be reworked
[10:39] <arand> tgpraveen: might be that I heard about...
[10:41] <BUGabundo_remote> tgpraveen: so that's why right now I have two FUSAs ?
[10:41] <arand> CosmiChaos: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdm-custom-greeter-support "Not Started" >_<
[10:42] <CosmiChaos> arand, he i just want the usual gdm themes to gdm greeter apps
[10:42] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo_remote: yeah it's a WIP. there is a wiki page on how it will look in the end with support for broadcasting on twitter or facebook status etc
[10:42] <CosmiChaos> to=not
[10:42] <BUGabundo_remote> uuuuuhhhh twit and FB
[10:42] <BUGabundo_remote> can't wait for it
[10:42] <BUGabundo_remote> [/sarcarsm]
[10:43] <arand> I think it's supposed to be one for shutdown, one for social status and one for applications, or something like that...
[10:43] <arand> Way to clutter the systray!
[10:43] <CosmiChaos> nonsense if you ask me
[10:43] <CosmiChaos> i use pidgin
[10:43] <BUGabundo_remote> +
[10:43] <CosmiChaos> :)
[10:43] <BUGabundo_remote> +
[10:44] <BUGabundo_remote> +1
[10:44] <BUGabundo_remote> great... my num lock stop working
[10:44] <CosmiChaos> nice you telling everyone
[10:44]  * BUGabundo_remote goes file nautilus bug
[10:45]  * DanaG wonders: if nvidia "tegra 2" has opengl support... would it run ubuntu?
[10:45] <DanaG> Frankly, I wouldn't hold my breath for drivers.
[10:46] <BUGabundo_remote> some ppl should just stay put :( http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/detail?id=1019
[10:47] <BUGabundo_remote> wb DanaG
[10:47] <DanaG> not for long... 2:47 AM is late enough.
[10:47] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo_remote: link
[10:47] <tgpraveen> ?
[10:48] <tgpraveen> arand: the whole idea is to unclutter the tray like how messaging indicator absorbs 3-4 icons
[10:48] <BUGabundo_remote> tgpraveen: ?
[10:48] <DanaG> great... so now how many clicks to open the buddy-list window?
[10:48] <tgpraveen> for nautilius bug
[10:48] <DanaG> As it is right now, it takes just one.
[10:48] <BUGabundo_remote> I'm filling it now tgpraveen
[10:48] <DanaG> pidgin, specifically.
[10:49] <arand> tgpraveen: of course, provided everyone uses four social media thingies simultaneously..
[10:50] <BUGabundo_remote> DanaG: tgpraveen: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/509079 go get it. I'm sending it upstream
[10:50] <BUGabundo_remote> someone ping seb128 when he wakes up
[10:51] <BUGabundo_remote> (10:51:05 AM) seb128: it's not a bug
[10:52] <BUGabundo_remote> (10:51:33 AM) seb128: upstream decided it would be clearer this way
[10:52] <BUGabundo_remote> (10:51:42 AM) seb128: to not have toolbar, url bar, tabs, etc stacked
[10:52]  * DanaG uses ZERO social media thingies.  =P
[10:52] <DanaG> I check my facebook once every, oh, two months.  maybe.
[10:52] <DanaG> So instead, I middle-click a folder.... no tab opens.
[10:52] <Trewas> BUGabundo_remote: there's already gnome bug 606027
[10:52] <DanaG> Okay, middle click again... where are my tabs?
[10:52] <tgpraveen> BUGabundo_remote: ok after filing give the link I want to subscribe to
[10:52] <tgpraveen> too
[10:52] <DanaG> middle-click.  middle-click.
[10:53] <DanaG> Oh wait, now I see I have 5 tabs open.... where I wasn't looking.
[10:53] <arand> Hmm, I would actually find it somewhat useful if they, for once, integrated ThunderB into the indicator...
[10:55] <tgpraveen> DanaG: yeah I was having the same confusion whne I first used it.
[10:56]  * tgpraveen doesn't use facebook at all. and doesn't even get why its so popular
[10:57] <DanaG> for me, it's EVERY time I try to use it.
[10:57] <DanaG> I also ran into a similar "ALWAYS confusing" issue with the game Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 recently...
[10:58] <DanaG> I'm used to AutoCAD: Middle is pan, Right is rotate.
[10:58] <DanaG> The game: Middle is rotate, right is pan.
[10:58] <DanaG> I found it similarly impossible to get used to that... it NEVER stopped confusing me.
[11:00] <BUGabundo_remote> tgpraveen: DanaG: seb128 says it WON'T change. upstream wants so. if we *really* want to change it, we should talk to alex at #nautilus on irc.gnome.org
[11:00] <BUGabundo_remote> but don't troll around...
[11:01] <BUGabundo_remote> bugs linkes
[11:01] <BUGabundo_remote> *linked
[11:02] <aprilhare> i just hope lucid supports my webcam. its like support for my webcam gets dropped from kernel
[11:02] <aprilhare> when released that is
[11:03] <DanaG> they should make it a ***** gconf setting, then!
[11:03] <DanaG> Is that really so hard?
[11:03] <aprilhare> nightly builds support my webcam but releases don't
[11:03] <aprilhare> DanaG: apparently
[11:04] <BUGabundo_remote> aprilhare: that wasn't meant to you
[11:04] <aprilhare> oh
[11:04] <DanaG> sorry, yeah, griping about nautilus.
[11:04]  * aprilhare is more tired than he thought
[11:04] <aprilhare> night
[11:08]  * DanaG goes orf to bedd.
[11:49] <tgpraveen1> does anyone know when gstreamer-bad will be back I did a partial upgrade which removed it when I upgraded to lucid from karmic today?
[11:53] <vish> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1343434
[12:15] <dupondje> could somebody try to reproduce the following bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/508930 in Lucid ?
[12:42] <duffydack> so if i have win7 - karmic - lucid and I wanna remove lucid, do I have to run grub-install after removing the partition, since its using a newer grub than karmics
[13:07] <BUGabundo_remote> dupondje: I don't think its only samba
[13:07] <BUGabundo_remote> any mount point I have, gets unmounted after X time of inactivity
[13:08] <dupondje> BUGabundo_remote: its not unmounting
[13:08] <dupondje> its a hickup
[13:08] <dupondje> it keeps mounted
[13:09] <dupondje> but gives a hickup every x minutes/seconds
[16:11] <charlie-tca> Good Morning! a little help, please. I upgraded a VirtualBox 9.10 to Lucid; now it won't start gdm automatically. I have to go to recovery mode, switch to a tty, then start gdm to get to the desktop
[16:13] <charlie-tca> nm, apparently, had to install guest additions to get it to work again
[16:15] <BUGabundo_remote> charlie-tca: that's a rookie mistake :D
[16:15] <BUGabundo_remote> always install GA... it's the drivers needed for it to wrok
[16:15] <charlie-tca> Why should I need GA? I didn't need it for the initial install
[16:15] <kklimonda> hey BUGabundo_remote
[16:16] <charlie-tca> Hello, BUGabundo_remote
[16:16] <BUGabundo_remote> hey kklimonda.long time no talk
[16:16] <kklimonda> indeed
[16:16] <BUGabundo_remote> charlie-tca: I always need it ! its like a requirement for me
[16:16] <charlie-tca> I think you are right. I had to install them in lucid guest session before to reboot it
[16:16]  * charlie-tca slaps head; forgot that part
[16:16] <BUGabundo_remote> ahah
[16:17] <BluesKaj> hmm, i just got disconnected from freenode for no apparent reason.
[16:17] <BUGabundo_remote> after 3 years stucking with me, you should already know I'm always right charlie-tca
[16:17] <charlie-tca> yeah, I know.
[16:18] <charlie-tca> BluesKaj: here is the error message from that: BluesKaj has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[16:18] <charlie-tca> Might be a faulty connection?
[16:18] <BluesKaj> thanks charlie-tca ..timed out ?
[16:19] <charlie-tca> Usually means the connection dropped, doesn't it?
[16:19] <BluesKaj> nope , wife's pc is on line without probs
[16:21] <BluesKaj> the freenose connection could have been faulty , yes
[16:21] <BluesKaj> freenode :)
[16:21] <BluesKaj>  freenose connection ...open sourc e facelifts :)
[16:23] <BluesKaj> do you guys have probs with cdrom not showing up in /dolphin places ? I can't burn anything , k3b doesn't see the cdrom ..checked fstab and it looks normal
[16:24] <charlie-tca__> I don't use dolphin
[16:24] <charlie-tca__> but I do know I don't get anything to automount in lucid
[16:24] <charlie-tca__> I have to manually mount the cdrom drive to use it
[16:24] <yofel> BluesKaj: I burned something yesterday with k3b, can you mount the drive in a terminal?
[16:25] <BluesKaj> yofel , yes
[16:25] <yofel> hm
[16:26] <BluesKaj> I did copy some files to a dvd-rw to make sure I had an avenue
[16:26] <yofel> then I don't know, works fine here
[16:27] <BluesKaj> cp /"name of files "  /dev/scd0
[16:27] <BluesKaj> that worked ..k3b doesn't recognze any media I mount in the cdrom
[16:27] <yofel> the dvd+rw I burned something on wasn't empty though, maybe there are issues with empty disks?
[16:28] <BluesKaj> blank media that is
[16:28] <yofel> yep
[16:29] <BluesKaj> anyway I'll just use the cli ... trying to convert some mkv files to mpg but ffmpeg errors out as does mencoder
[16:29] <BUGabundo_remote> charlie-tca__: my DVD drive doesn't work, but that's prob from droping into the follor
[16:30] <BluesKaj> I thought if I could burn the files to a dvd then rip them they would convert
[16:30] <charlie-tca__> BUGabundo_remote: Yeah, I have a hard drive that way. It won't work after sailing about 10 feet (3 meters)
[16:30] <BluesKaj> hehe
[16:32]  * charlie-tca__ didn't think it was too far, but the drive seems to
[16:55] <kklimonda> huh, my vmware installation of lucid fails to detect keyboard
[16:56] <BUGabundo_remote> my NoMachine/FreeNX system won't use my numpad...
[16:57] <kklimonda> numpad? haven't seen it in a while :)
[17:03] <BUGabundo_remote> hoy
[17:04] <BUGabundo_remote> I totally forgot
[17:04] <BUGabundo_remote> can *anyone* stop on grub ??
[17:04] <BUGabundo_remote> since Friday mine won't stop... at least pressing left SHIFT
[17:04] <BUGabundo_remote> just boots :((((
[17:04] <BluesKaj> your time out in grub is probly set to "0"
[17:05] <charlie-tca__> I set mine up to stop from /etc/default
[17:06] <charlie-tca__> I broke a keyboard last week because of that issue, though
[17:06] <kklimonda> BUGabundo_remote, I just stop it in vm
[17:06] <kklimonda> are there mirrors for alpha releases?
[17:06] <kklimonda> I can't get decent speed from neither torrent or cdimage.u.c
[17:07] <BluesKaj> yeah i have mine set to GRUB_TIMEOUT="10"
[17:08] <crimsun> kklimonda: http://se.archive.ubuntu.com/mirror/cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/alpha-2/
[17:09] <kklimonda> crimsun: thanks, much better
[17:09] <WeatherGod> speaking of the alpha releases, I haven't seen any new daily builds since the 14th
[17:10] <crimsun> that's because the livefs builds were turned off
[17:11] <crimsun> I suspect once holiday is over they will be reenabled
[17:11] <BUGabundo_remote> kklimonda: we have on in PT
[17:11] <BUGabundo_remote> holidays??
[17:12] <maco> BUGabundo_remote: US holiday for a civil rights leader
[17:12] <maco> (Martin Luther King Jr)
[17:12] <WeatherGod> ah, ok
[17:13] <WeatherGod> I suspected as such
[17:15] <pasjr> If I clean cache via Ubuntu Tweak Package Cleaner, will I lose updated and upgraded packages? Or will the packages be installed and safely stored?
[17:15] <WeatherGod> has anyone noticed a change in the behavior of "Show Desktop"?
[17:16] <WeatherGod> in UNR, "Show Desktop" will show the desktop when clicked, and then does nothing for the next click
[17:16] <WeatherGod> usually, it should bring the windows back up
[17:17] <charlie-tca__> WeatherGod: works in xubuntu
[17:17] <yofel> pasjr: a) ubuntu tweak isn't supported here, b) depends on what cleaning cache means, if it just removes the .deb file cache you installed applications won't be touched
[17:18] <pasjr> ok thank you
[17:18] <WeatherGod> charlie-tca, hmmm, might have to report it as a bug then
[17:19] <WeatherGod> I will double-check later today with the latest build
[17:19] <BUGabundo_remote> WeatherGod: works for me in gnome with Compiz
[17:20] <WeatherGod> maybe it is just UNR then?
[18:05] <tgpraveen> hey all any idea how to solve this problem
[18:06] <tgpraveen> ttp://pastebin.ubuntu.com/358610/
[18:06] <tgpraveen> I get it when I try to sudo apt-get remove swell-foop
[18:10] <WeatherGod> my best guess is that it is a corrupted download or something
[18:10] <WeatherGod> try clearing your cache and installing it again
[18:12] <tgpraveen> WeatherGod: what's the command to clear cache
[18:14] <bjsnider> apt-get autoclean
[18:14] <WeatherGod> no
[18:14] <WeatherGod> apt-get clean
[18:15] <tgpraveen> none of them helped
[18:15] <WeatherGod> autoclean only clears some stuff
[18:15] <WeatherGod> hmm
[18:15] <tgpraveen> lemme restart
[18:24]  * genii hands out more coffees
[18:24] <setuid> I'm having the weirdest problem when coming out of suspend with lucid on my T61p with the Nvidia drivers
[18:32] <setuid> it gives me this blocky, colored screen (looks like an old Atari screen), then goes black, adn then I have to alt-F7 to get into X, and when I do, the wallpaper is all zig-zag black and white "stairs"
[18:32] <setuid> Anyone seen this before?
[18:38] <WeatherGod> nope, sorry
[18:38] <WeatherGod> which drivers are you using?
[18:42] <setuid> 185.18.36-0ubuntu9
[18:42] <setuid> Just found this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaLaptopBinaryDriverSuspend
[18:43] <setuid> Trying some of those ideas now, and downloading 190.53
[18:43] <setuid> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/190.53/NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-190.53-pkg2.run
[18:44] <yofel> why aren't you using the 190.53 driver from the repos?
[18:44] <setuid> Because it's not in there
[18:44] <yofel> setuid: it IS there, it's called nvidia-current
[18:44] <setuid> installing now..
[18:46] <bjsnider> the 185 is now an upgrade to the 190, so he was just not doing any upgrades
[19:01] <BluesKaj> bjsnider, the 190 has 2 versions .. the earlier one broke X
[19:04] <setuid_> Darn wifi... ok, next problem before I reboot to test this nvidia issue. How do I set the vga= line in grub2?
[19:04] <setuid_> I need my vga at boot to be 37D
[19:05] <setuid_> There's a menu.lst in /boot/grub, but it seems to be completely ignored
[19:05] <setuid_> I set GRUB_GFXMODE=1920x1200 in /etc/default/grub, but that fails too
[19:06] <setuid_> /etc/default/grub suggestes running vbeinfo to query modes, but that doesn't exist in all of Ubuntu, in any package
[19:06] <setuid_> At least as far as apt-file search can query
[19:07] <charlie-tca__> setuid: add it to the /etc/default/grub   GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
[19:07] <setuid_> Mine already says:
[19:07] <setuid_> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="vga=37D elevator=noop noinotify noonotify pci=routeirq noatime norelatime"
[19:08] <setuid_> All of that is completely ignored
[19:08] <charlie-tca__> 37D is hex, I think and needs to be 0x037D
[19:08] <charlie-tca__> with all that on the line, you don't get a splash screen, right?
[19:11] <setuid_> Nope, no splash, and nothing but a blank screen. I have to switch to the second console to put in the password for my encrypted partitions
[19:11] <setuid_> On karmic, it was all on the first console
[19:11] <setuid_> It's definitely weird
[19:12] <setuid_> On karmic, jaunty, gutsy... vga=37D worked fine, maybe grub2 needs the full value. I'll try that.
[19:14] <dupondje> hi :)
[19:14] <charlie-tca__> or maybe it is just still broken for lucid
[19:18] <CosmiChaos> setuid you found ways to activate splash in lucid? O.o tell me
[19:18] <CosmiChaos> im with nvidia ;)
[19:20] <DanaG> try 0x37d
[19:20] <DanaG> or try the grub gfxpayload thingy.
[19:20] <DanaG> should be googleable.
[19:22] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/508930
[19:22] <dupondje> somebody having same issues with Lucid ?
[19:46] <Bookman> Any ideas why I have no sound at all?  When I check on the hardware in Sound Preferences, it is blank.  I don't think it is picking up my sound card at all.
[19:49] <WeatherGod> Bookman, if no sound devices are showing up, it is likely that a driver wasn't choosen for your card
[19:50] <WeatherGod> what kind of sound card do you have
[19:50] <DanaG> it may also be consolekit issues... I had that happen.
[19:50] <DanaG> go to console and aplay -L
[19:50] <DanaG> and then sudo aplay -L
[19:50] <WeatherGod> true
[19:50] <DanaG> if non-root doesn't work but root does, that's consolekit.
[19:50] <BluesKaj> or try, lspci | grep audio
[19:51] <Bookman> My card is integrated (laptop) AC97
[19:51] <Bookman> aplay reports the card fine.
[19:52] <WeatherGod> hmm, that is odd
[19:52] <Bookman> Yup
[19:53] <WeatherGod> might be a pulseaudio issue, maybe?
[19:53] <kklimonda> how is nouveau driver? usable?
[19:53] <WeatherGod> for 2D, yeah
[19:53] <WeatherGod> more than sufficient
[19:54] <kklimonda> suspend and hibernation works?
[19:55] <WeatherGod> dunno for sure, but I have had some people report problems with the nvidia drivers with resume, and then say it works fine with nouveau
[19:55] <WeatherGod> ymmv
[19:55] <kklimonda> yeah, I know
[19:56] <WeatherGod> but it is supporting a lot of cards that nvidia no longer supports
[19:57] <kklimonda> I have a "well supported" card but I hate missing plymouth, xrandr 1.2, working hibernation..
[19:58] <WeatherGod> well, rumor has it that the nvidia microcode will be included in the next kernel release (won't be for Lucid, though)
[19:59] <WeatherGod> maybe it will be backported, though?
[19:59] <kklimonda> oh, they've decided to do it after all?
[19:59] <WeatherGod> that's what I am hearing, but it would be for the one released in March
[20:00] <WeatherGod> the rc's are available, though
[20:03] <Bookman> I think I will try booting into Kubuntu to see if that is any better at picking up the sound card.
[20:07] <Bookman> I am upgrading and maybe this is some of my troubles? Could not install 'linux-image-2.6.32-10-generic'
[20:07] <Bookman> The upgrade will continue but the 'linux-image-2.6.32-10-generic' package may not be in a working state.
[20:09] <WeatherGod> hmmm, possibly
[20:09] <yofel> any more info? can you try 'sudo aptitude reinstall linux-image-2.6.32-10-generic' in a terminal?
[20:10] <yofel> as this is the kernel package the chances are high that this *will* cause troubles
[20:13] <CosmiChaos> nouveau works? how
[20:14] <Bookman> yofel, My system is trying to recover itself at the moment.
[20:14] <CosmiChaos> when i try to install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau it forces me to remove xserver-xorg
[20:15] <CosmiChaos> + *-core + *-input-*
[20:15] <yofel> CosmiChaos: the package seems to depend on the old xserver, maybe you can get a newer version from the xorg edgers ppa?
[20:16] <CosmiChaos> have you got a link for me please?
[20:17]  * yofel wonders why people never want to use google...
[20:17] <yofel> https://edge.launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa
[20:18] <yofel> please read the notices on the page
[20:18] <CosmiChaos> so i would try the karmic one? thanks at all
[20:19] <yofel> what karmic one?
[20:19] <yofel> xserver?
[20:20] <yofel> if you're not sure you can handle breaking your system by using the ppa then you should rather wait until the nouveau driver in the archive works
[20:20] <setuid> grub2 is an absolute trainwreck... how do I get the old grub back? I purged and removed all of grub2 from the system... but it's booted. How do I reinstall a proper bootloader, before I reboot this and render it unbootable?
[20:21] <yofel> setuid: install the 'grub' package afaik
[20:21] <CosmiChaos> i will give it a shoot? but i guess it would not fix plymouth splash right?
[20:22] <CosmiChaos> setuid, well i think grub 2 is nice, whats the problem with it
[20:22] <yofel> as I'm not sure what plymouth is supposed to look like right now I don't know, but I heard you need KMS to use it right now
[20:23] <setuid> CosmiChaos, as with almost everything in lucid... it removes functionality, de-evolving to something almost entirely useless (like gdm, grub2, most of GNOME, network-manager, and about 200 other packages I've run into now)
[20:23] <setuid> CosmiChaos, Seems like grub2 is an over-engineered solution to a non-existent problem
[20:25] <setuid> udev is backwards-incompatible, gdm is stripped to bare-bones (no themes config, no remote config, etc.), grub2 doesn't do half as much as the previous grub, and so on
[20:25] <kklimonda> setuid: it's called progress
[20:25] <kklimonda> ;)
[20:25] <setuid> kklimonda, oh, is backwards the new forward now?
[20:25] <Bookman> Funny, after the error, recover and reboot sound is fine now.  Go figure!
[20:26] <kklimonda> setuid: nod
[20:26]  * setuid risks a reboot
[20:26] <kklimonda> setuid: linux is still in a phase when we can safely ignore users and drop backward compatibility
[20:27] <setuid> s/linux/lucid/
[20:27] <kklimonda> (as in no one really uses it on desktops anyway)
[20:27] <kklimonda> setuid: well - most of those changes you have pointed out are upstream ones
[20:27] <setuid> Great, so now grub fails... I'm at "grub rescue>" prompt. How do I boot the machine?
[20:27] <setuid> There is no 'help' option, nor '?'
[20:28] <kklimonda> setuid: what is grub2 missing btw?
[20:28] <charlie-tca__> type "help"?
[20:28] <setuid> charlie-tca__, Does nothing, help is an unknown command at this prompt
[20:29] <DanaG> is the broken one a different system?
[20:29] <DanaG> I mean, are you typing here while able to type on the non-booting system?
[20:30] <setuid> DanaG, Talking to me?
[20:31] <kklimonda> great, can't connect to znc using xchat..
[20:32] <setuid> Yep, she's fux0red... why-o-why would they put a completely incompatible bootloader on by default
[20:32] <setuid> And why does lucid have an /etc/debian_version file that says 'sid/unstable' in it?
[20:32] <setuid> I spotted that last night, which was a bit weird
[20:32] <yofel> because ubuntu is ultimately based on debian sid/unstable
[20:33] <yofel> and most packages come from there
[20:33] <yofel> well,  from debian testing for lucid
[20:34] <setuid> So let's say I boot back to the lucid install cd. How do I install grub (NOT grub2) to the drive?
[20:35] <yofel> hm, not sure, let's see if the wiki says something
[20:35] <yofel> !grub32
[20:35] <yofel> !grub2
[20:35] <setuid> btdt... grub2 is a no-op... I need a proper bootloader
[20:36] <setuid> Until the showstopper issues in grub2 are addressed, I need grub
[20:41] <mewshi> hello!
[20:42] <setuid> I don't understand why grub2 jumps around from tty1 to tty2 when it boots... it starts displaying output on tty1, then goes blank, and displays the rest (including the dm-crypt password prompt) on tty2
[20:43] <DanaG> what showstopper issues in grub2?
[20:44] <DanaG> anyway, grub2... you should be able to do this: root (hd0,N)  (that is, find the right number)
[20:44] <kklimonda> setuid: it's not grub probably
[20:44] <setuid> see above,.. no longer supports any vga options, in /etc/default/grub or any other context, jumps from console to console at boot, blanking out tty1 during the process, ignores colorizing. It's a mess.
[20:44] <DanaG> and then kernel /boot/vmlinu<tab> (find the right one) root=/dev/sdaN
[20:45] <DanaG> then initrd /boot/initrd<tab>  (again, find the right one)
[20:45] <setuid> DanaG, I reinstalled from the boot cd to get back up and running
[20:45] <charlie-tca__> setuid: the vga options worked here when I used them
[20:45] <setuid> It's a pretty significant step backwards in function
[20:46] <setuid> charlie-tca__, What syntax did you use?
[20:46] <setuid> charlie-tca__, and where did you use that syntax?
[20:46] <kklimonda> setuid: also grub doesn't blank tty1
[20:46] <charlie-tca__> vga=0x??? right between the " and quiet
[20:46] <DanaG> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7837428
[20:46] <setuid> grub2 seems to have inserted two Ubuntu 9.10 lines in my boot menu, which does not exist anywhere on the system. Where did it put those, and why?
[20:46] <DanaG> hmm, try doing the gfxpayload thing -- but know that you need to escape the semicolon (put a backslash in front of it).
[20:47] <setuid> DanaG, I tried that, gfxpayload is ignored
[20:47] <DanaG> weird... it wasn't ignored when I tried it.
[20:47] <setuid> I tried using the default, as well as tweaking it by putting in the proper screen res
[20:47] <DanaG> try gfxpayload=keep
[20:48] <setuid> I think that's only for splash images, not text mode. I can't use quiet or splash, because I have to enter the dm-crypt password to unlock the drive
[20:48] <setuid> When using quiet or splash, you never get that prompt
[20:49] <CosmiChaos> usplash supported that didnt it?
[20:49] <setuid> No idea, I could never use it
[20:49] <CosmiChaos> i once remebered entering that encryption code on boot anim
[20:49] <setuid> usplash and any non-text mode, is not supported when using an nvidia chipset
[20:49] <DanaG> Not true.
[20:49] <kklimonda> usplash worked just fine with nvidia
[20:49] <setuid> it just blanks out the screen, completely...
[20:49] <DanaG> I've used video=uvesafb before.
[20:49] <setuid> Had to hard-boot to get it back
[20:50] <DanaG> try that one.  video=uvesafb:mode_option=1024x768-24
[20:50] <DanaG> and make sure v86d is installed.
[20:50] <setuid> in what? the kernel line?
[20:50] <DanaG> yeah.
[20:50] <DanaG> or
[20:51] <DanaG> video=uvesafb:mode_option=1024x768-24,blank=1,scroll=ywrap    to make it do console-blanking on idle, and scroll a bit faster.
[20:51] <setuid> Why did it stick two "Ubuntu 9.04 (9.04)" lines in the grub config?
[20:52] <setuid> Yep, as expected... that video= line is completely ignored
[20:52] <setuid> Once it gets to the dm-crypt prompt, it flashes tty1, blanks it, and redirects all output to tty2
[20:52] <setuid> I have to alt-right-arrow to get to tty2, enter the passphrase, to continue booting
[20:53] <kklimonda> report a bug?
[20:53]  * setuid takes a photo, since I can't screenshot it 
[20:53] <charlie-tca__> bug has been reported on encrypted drives in lucid
[20:53] <charlie-tca__> I think it is in the release notes for alpha2
[20:54] <DanaG> that vt-switching IS rather stupid.
[20:55] <setuid> the video artifacts are important.. having these billboard-sized fonts at boot time, is painful
[20:55] <DanaG> I'm using radeon without kms for now, because radeon kms sucks watts like... well... crazy.
[20:55] <DanaG> sucks watts like ... an elephant?  no, that doesn't work.
[20:55] <DanaG> =þ
[20:56] <setuid> Looks like I found antoher one
[20:56] <setuid> X fails to load at boot, because it tries to load X before it loads the nvidia module into the namespace
[20:56] <setuid> Then I select "Exit to console login", and gdm tries to run X about 8 times, before dying
[20:56] <DanaG> hmm, is nvidia in initramfs?
[20:56] <DanaG> oh yeah, failsafe X sucks... especially on KMS.
[20:57] <setuid> No idea, is it?
[20:57] <DanaG> It wipes out all the consoles.
[20:57] <kklimonda> setuid: and? check if there is a bug report filled and if not do it. at this time there are so many bugs you don't have to tell us about every one of them
[20:57] <DanaG> try adding nvidia to initramfs -- add a line in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
[20:57] <kklimonda> great, looks like one of 25 patches applied to xchat breaks something in connection to servers that require password..
[20:59] <setuid> kklimonda, independent validation that a bug is a bug, and not local misconfiguration helps, before filing a bug that is a red-herring
[21:12] <setuid> Looks like nvidia is a no-go on lucid... using either the packaged versions or the upstream vendor version
[21:12] <setuid> ugh
[21:12] <setuid> It worked last night, and now no longer works
[21:14] <kklimonda> setuid: wrt upstream version it's a know issue, mentioned in release notes
[21:14] <setuid> Where are those release notes?
[21:14] <setuid> I've just tried 7 different nvidia driver versions, from packaged and upstream. The same versions which DO work on karmic and earlier Ubuntu releases.
[21:14] <kklimonda> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/alpha2#Known%20issues
[21:22] <setuid> Looks like it's all broken... lots of people reporting bugs wiht it
[21:22] <setuid> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net/msg41563.html
[21:22] <setuid> That's precisely what I'm seeing, after following the instructions on the wiki page
[21:33] <setuid> DanaG, Looks like I got video working, sort of, at 1600x1200, but it's ONLY relevant for the grub boot menu, not the console boot text that follows when selecting one of those menu options
[21:35] <charlie-tca__> The setting applies only to the boot menu display, not the resolution of the operating system that boots.
[21:35] <charlie-tca__> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
[21:37] <setuid> So that's NOT equivalent to the vga= line
[21:45] <DanaG> gfxmode is grub's mode... try adding gfxpayload=keep
[21:50] <DanaG> setuid: did you install v86d and update the initramfs image?
[21:51] <setuid> Not yet, trying to work out the nightmare of this page on splashimages... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
[21:51] <setuid> Nobody is going to go through the 50 steps required to set a splash image like that
[21:51]  * DanaG doesn't bother with splash on grub.
[21:51] <kklimonda> setuid, which doesn't really matter because people shouldn't even see it
[21:52] <setuid> kklimonda, If anyone wants to set a splash, they need to
[21:52] <kklimonda> setuid, this small group of people who love tweaking system won't be scared by it
[21:53] <setuid> I wish I could disable the "blink" in grub2, that's annoying
[21:53] <setuid> kklimonda, agreed ;)
[21:54] <setuid> "If it ain't broke.. you didn't configure it enough." -setuid"
[21:54] <charlie-tca__> setuid: note the section on removing grub2 and reverting to legacy grub
[21:56] <setuid> DanaG, v86d and initramfs re-generated, I'm sitting at the grub line now... what should I edit, to get a proper 1600x1200+ console font?
[21:56] <setuid> vga=37D is ignored in the kernel line (which leads me to suspect ALL of the items on that line are ignored)
[21:57] <DanaG> video=uvesafb:mode_option=1600x1200-24,scroll=ywrap,blank=1
[21:57] <DanaG> the two things after the commas are optional, though.
[21:57] <setuid> Right, I've used them before way-back-when in lilo
[21:57] <DanaG> It's a kernel parameter, not a variable, though.
[21:58] <DanaG> oh, and make sure vbeinfo shows that resolution anyway.
[21:59] <setuid> hrm, can't get into grub now
[21:59] <setuid> shift is ignored
[21:59] <setuid> Did that change in a recent grub2 update too?
[22:00] <setuid> I can't believe I've spent 1/2 of my day trying to get grub to behave
[22:01] <kklimonda> welcome to linux
[22:01] <setuid> kklimonda, I've been using it since 1995, I'm well aware of the growing pains
[22:01] <setuid> But when things work, you don't just go breaking them, to introduce "cool" or change existing behavior
[22:02] <setuid> This fast-boot stuff is going to burn a lot of people
[22:02] <setuid> I just booted, X failed, because synaptics module wasn't loaded, I asked it to jump to console login, then X loaded, because NOW the synaptics driver loaded in the time it took to display the error dialog about X not loading.
[22:02] <kklimonda> well, we could just leave things like they were and have an outdated stack
[22:03] <kklimonda> it was the same with pulseaudio
[22:03] <charlie-tca__> Still got 4 months to work the issues out of lucid
[22:03] <setuid> oss audio worked fine, esd, artsd, pulse, etc. are tactical hacks that provide zero value
[22:03] <setuid> And you can improve the stack, without breaking existing function or provide a legacy migration layer, so existing things continue to work.
[22:04] <kklimonda> oh come on, don't bring an oss into this discussion
[22:04] <setuid> Pulling the rug out and telling people to brace themselves for the fall, isn't nice
[22:04] <DanaG> libnotify-Message: GetCapabilities call failed: Launcher could not run (out of memory)
[22:04] <setuid> kklimonda, No, the 'oss' (pre-alsa) sound system worked great
[22:04] <kklimonda> setuid, it didn't
[22:04] <DanaG> I tried oss4... hard-locked my system.
[22:04] <DanaG> And had really horrible names for things.
[22:04] <DanaG> "Front Green"
[22:04] <DanaG> "Front Pink"
[22:05] <DanaG> ugh, brightness control isn't working in gnome-stracciatella-session.
[22:08] <setuid> DanaG, Your video= suggestion was ignored by grub
[22:09] <DanaG> Umm... how did you edit the thing?
[22:09] <setuid> The -very first- line of text after hitting Enter on the grub kernel line was the right resolution, then it immediately goes back to 80x25 text
[22:09] <DanaG> If you edit with 'e', and then press escape, it doesn't keep your changes.
[22:09] <setuid> DanaG, I put it in the /etc/default/grub file, and ran update-grub. It didn't work when inserting it manually.
[22:10] <DanaG> hmm, check dmesg for uvesafb
[22:11] <DanaG> I also added to /etc/modprobe.d/custom.conf:   options uvesafb mode_option=1024x768-24 scroll=ywrap blank=1
[22:11] <DanaG> and added uvesafb to /etc/modules and /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
[22:11] <setuid> This is weird, I have to let X fail, mouse thorugh the "Exit to console login" graphic, then it starts gdm and X works fine
[22:16] <setuid> hrm, weird... something is trying to start X before gdm is loaded
[22:16] <setuid> Any idea how to diagnose what it might be?
[22:16] <setuid> gdm works fine, once the machine boots and I manually fail out of the X error dialogs
[22:20] <DanaG> hmm, I'd say, file a bug on that.
[22:21] <setuid> Yep, X is definitely trying to start before gdm does
[22:25] <setuid> I've been keeping track, I have about 73 bugs to file on all of these bits
[22:28] <setuid> I've set /etc/init.d/gdm to 0000 perms, let's see what happens at boot time
[22:30] <setuid> Confirmed... something other than gdm is starting before gdm, taking up X:0, which causes gdm to fail
[22:31] <DanaG> hmm, perhaps look in "ps" (or htop) to see what the parent process is?
[22:32] <setuid> Looks like /etc/init.d/failsafe-x is the problem
[22:32] <setuid> Testing another reboot after rm'ing that
[22:34] <setuid> shoot... still doing it
[22:34] <setuid> odd though, gdm starts 2 times, and gdmopen starts 2 times
[22:35] <DanaG> for me, failsafe-x has never done anything except cause more problems.
[22:37] <setuid> I noticed I had gdm and gdm-2.2 installed, so I ripped out gdm, leaving gdm-2.2
[22:37] <setuid> This should be interesting
[22:41] <setuid> Yikes... my bug list grows. Pulling out gdm (leaving gdm-2.2 installed), removes the gdm user and control dirs for policykit (/var/lib/gdm), which breaks gdm-2.2 from working.
[23:05] <setuid_> DanaG, Just stumbled upon this: http://harrison3001.blogspot.com/2009/09/grub-2-graphical-boot-tips-to-set.html
[23:05] <setuid_> Going to test this now
[23:07] <setuid> We'll see if this works
[23:07] <setuid> damn, nope, didn't work
[23:07] <setuid> When grub2 loads, where is its output/errors/warnings logged?
[23:08] <setuid> It spits out one line, in the high-res font I'm striving for, then switches to 80x25 resolution and paints over it, something about a line being deprcated and to use gfxpayload=something instead
[23:11] <DanaG> hmm, do you still have vga= there?
[23:12] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/416772
[23:12]  * yofel just remembered bug 416772 
[23:12] <yofel> heh
[23:12] <DanaG> NICE CRUISE CONTROL ON THAT BUG REPORT
[23:12] <DanaG> =þ
[23:13] <yofel> ^^
[23:14] <BUGabundo> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/01/why-microsoft-isnt-working-on-silverlight-64-bit.ars
[23:14] <BUGabundo> FAIL
[23:14] <BUGabundo> " nobody uses 64-bit browsers.5"
[23:14] <DanaG> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41881
[23:14] <DanaG>       
[23:14] <DanaG>       
[23:14] <DanaG>       
[23:14] <DanaG>       
[23:14] <DanaG>       
[23:14] <DanaG>         
[23:14] <DanaG>         
[23:14] <DanaG>           
[23:14] <DanaG> Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at arstechnica.com.
[23:14] <DanaG> ARGH
[23:14] <DanaG> how the heck did firefox copy and paste all those blank lines?
[23:15] <BUGabundo> LOL
[23:15] <setuid> Such a waste of all this precious vertical bandwidth
[23:15] <yofel> wtf?
[23:15] <BUGabundo> setuid: ROFL
[23:16] <BUGabundo> % of 64 *buntu users: about 10%
[23:17] <yofel> nice... firefox froze opening the 'applications' settings tab o.O
[23:17] <DanaG> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41881
[23:17] <DanaG> try that gfxpayload stuff.
[23:18] <DanaG> oh, and I had a thought: perhaps the thing resetting framebuffer is vga16fb.
[23:18] <DanaG> try passing vga16fb.DoNotWant=1 (or any other invalid parameter)... that should make vga16fb bail out instead of loading.
[23:18] <setuid> I'm closer, but not quite there yet... got high-res fonts now in console, except the whole 1920x1200 screen's text is sitting in the first inch of the screen, at the top
[23:18] <DanaG> How do you have 1920x1200 framebuffer?  What sort of system?
[23:18] <DanaG> Mine only offers non-widescreen modes.
[23:19] <setuid> T61p
[23:19] <setuid> vbeinfo shows it.. 1920x1200-32
[23:19] <DanaG> My vbe modes only go up to 1600x1200.
[23:19] <DanaG> Screen is 1920x1200.
[23:21] <setuid> I'll try 1600x1200... the key is to make sure it's 32bpp though, or switching from X to console and back, will screw up things badly, resulting in a corrupted screen. Seen that before a few thousand times.
[23:22] <BUGabundo> need a tester: set CPU to Conservative profile, and leave it running for 5 min
[23:23] <setuid> Nope, same corrupted screen
[23:23] <BUGabundo> in my case it gets set to performance after a while
[23:23] <setuid> damn
[23:27] <yofel> BUGabundo: conservative set, I'll report back
[23:27] <BUGabundo> thanks yofel
[23:27] <BUGabundo> FYI Intel C2D 8300 here
[23:27] <BUGabundo> runnning Lucid 64 bits
[23:28] <yofel> I set it on a C2D T7300 x64 and Atom N270 x86
[23:28] <setuid> BUGabundo, In X?
[23:28] <setuid> BUGabundo, If you're running Firefox with the broken Flash plugin (npviewer.bin), it will skyrocket in CPU and RAM usage, making your governor go to performance
[23:30] <BUGabundo> setuid: *if* it would, would do the same in OnDemand
[23:31] <BUGabundo> now testing powertop to see what's going on
[23:31] <BUGabundo>   60.6% (912.2)   [Rescheduling interrupts] <kernel IPI>
[23:31] <BUGabundo> C2                1.2ms (82.7%)         1200 Mhz    90.1%
[23:31] <BUGabundo> C0 (cpu running)        (17.3%)         2.40 Ghz     7.6%
[23:31] <BUGabundo> now reseting to Conservative
[23:35] <setuid> drat... 1600x1200x32 doesn't work either. I don't think any of this was tested.
[23:36] <setuid> Is this console switching business with dm-crypt only an issue with grub2, or would it be an issue for grub also?
[23:37] <BUGabundo> oooh I love when I'm trying to debug something and it doesn't happen
[23:38] <yofel> heh, 'presentation effect' XD
[23:39] <BUGabundo> you can't want something while its moving? cause watching it changes it specs
[23:39] <fagan> Hey all I just upgrade tested hardy to lucid and it worked well but im getting this error when I try to insert my usb hard drive http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/358766/
[23:39] <fagan> Any ideas whats wrong
[23:40] <yofel> err... let's stay in a relativistic view of the world...
[23:40] <BUGabundo> fagan: fsck it
[23:40] <BUGabundo> prob dates related
[23:40] <fagan> Ah maybe
[23:40]  * BUGabundo is loving this episode of chuck.... reminds 1st season 1st episode
[23:41] <fagan> BUGabundo: season 3?
[23:41]  * fagan restarts and sees if that fixes the problem
[23:46] <setuid> looks like whatever is in the lucid build of grub2, is preventing the standard methods of setting the console resolution