/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/01/18/#ubuntu+1.txt

IdleOne	I am very unhappy with the state of xchat :(	02:00
IdleOne	channel hilighting is all messed up	02:00
crimsun	apt-get source xchat, hack away, submit patches	02:01
IdleOne	crimsun: I don't code, sadly but maybe I need to learn	02:01
bjsnider	yeah, just to improve xchat	02:01
IdleOne	heh why not lol	02:02
IdleOne	the last update to xchat made it basically unusable for me. I can't keep track of channels properly anymore	02:03
bjsnider	which one are you using? there's xchat and xchat-gnbome	02:03
IdleOne	xchat	02:03
IdleOne	not gnome.	02:03
bjsnider	what's the problem with it?	02:03
IdleOne	the channel tabs highlight on msg. normally after I click it the tab goes from red to grey. Now it stays red so I don't see when a msg was sent to channel. granted in a busy channel it is useless but in quiet channels I can see when a msg was sent	02:04
bjsnider	doesn't do that here	02:05
bjsnider	but i'm using karmic	02:05
IdleOne	yeah on lucid	02:05
IdleOne	was fine until yesterday	02:05
bjsnider	you mean there are updates and changes to schat?	02:06
bjsnider	this will be the first i've heard of it	02:06
IdleOne	apperently	02:06
bjsnider	i thought it was a dead project	02:06
IdleOne	well someone must of updated something	02:06
IdleOne	and broke the channel highlight for me at least	02:07
bjsnider	!info xchat lucid	02:08
ubottu	xchat (source: xchat): IRC client for X similar to AmIRC. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.8.6-4ubuntu4 (lucid), package size 311 kB, installed size 832 kB	02:08
bjsnider	!info xchat karmic	02:08
ubottu	xchat (source: xchat): IRC client for X similar to AmIRC. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.8.6-4ubuntu2 (karmic), package size 335 kB, installed size 900 kB	02:08
bjsnider	both are 2.8.6-4	02:08
bjsnider	same upstream version	02:08
bjsnider	the ubuntu packager broke it	02:08
IdleOne	yes but ubuntu2 in karmic	02:08
IdleOne	and ubuntu4 in lucid	02:09
IdleOne	so something changed	02:09
bjsnider	check the changelog	02:09
bjsnider	find the guy who released it and tell him he's buggered it up	02:10
IdleOne	where do I check the changelog?	02:10
IdleOne	LP	02:10
crimsun	zless /usr/share/doc/xchat/changelog.Debian.gz	02:10
crimsun	or	02:10
crimsun	aptitude changelog xchat	02:10
crimsun	or	02:10
crimsun	(yes, LP: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat)	02:11
IdleOne	oh seriously? I didn't know aptitude did changelogs	02:11
bjsnider	!info xchat hardy	02:11
ubottu	xchat (source: xchat): IRC client for X similar to AmIRC. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.8.4-0ubuntu7 (hardy), package size 301 kB, installed size 808 kB	02:11
bjsnider	ok, there has been a patch-level release in 2 years	02:12
bjsnider	so iguess it isn't completely dead	02:12
bjsnider	but it ain't exactly the linux kernel	02:12
IdleOne	recent changes were updates to support ircd seven	02:12
crimsun	try https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/xchat/lucid for revision summaries	02:14
bjsnider	the ubuntu packager shouldn't be doing anything but changing the build scripts and if he is adding support for something, it is in a patch. so maybe the patch is buggy	02:16
IdleOne	this was latest patch * debian/patches/99_fix_implicit_declaration.dpatch: Fix "implicitly converted	02:19
IdleOne	to pointer at ignoregui.c:192" error in amd64 and ia64 builds. Patch taken	02:19
IdleOne	from opensuse.	02:19
IdleOne	I don't know what that means exactly or if it would even affect me ( 32 bit here )	02:19
IdleOne	but this started on the 15th. same day as that update	02:20
bjsnider	this information should be going to the developer through what we call a "bug"	02:21
bjsnider	if you submit a bug on xchat this guy will get the bug report because his email address is in the control file	02:21
IdleOne	already emailed fabricesp@ubuntu.com about it and I did submit a bug earlier today	02:21
bjsnider	so do that thing	02:21
bjsnider	coolio	02:22
IdleOne	so basically I was just complaining earlier :)	02:22
IdleOne	but I learned about aptitude changelog package :) thanks crimsun	02:22
bjsnider	you submitted a bug on xchat and not xchat-gnome right?	02:22
IdleOne	correct	02:22
bjsnider	because xchat-gnome is even more unusable	02:22
IdleOne	oh, I know.	02:23
bjsnider	that thing should probably be pulled from the archive	02:23
IdleOne	don't know if it is unusable but it is less feature full	02:23
IdleOne	seems like a really basic client. xchat is basic enough as it is	02:24
bjsnider	xchat doesn't support emoticons for some reason	02:27
bjsnider	seems like that's a basic feature	02:27
IdleOne	thank god it doesnt	02:28
IdleOne	irc should remain irc not become a clone of IM	02:28
IdleOne	why do I get updates to nvidia packages if I don't have any nvidia hardware?	02:33
fulvi0	hi all	02:35
Anthropod16	lol, im having the exact opposite problem, idle.	02:35
IdleOne	Anthropod16: lol	02:35
IdleOne	hello fulvi0	02:35
bjsnider	IdleOne, it's probably nvidia-common, jockey and the modaliases packages, which are necessary in case you do have nvidia hardware	02:35
IdleOne	in case?	02:35
IdleOne	I don't	02:35
IdleOne	they are taking up precious storage space	02:35
bjsnider	yes, just as you have a bunch of xorg stuff that covers all possible graphics hardware	02:36
IdleOne	ok, you win	02:36
bjsnider	now go out and buy an nvidia card	02:36
IdleOne	nahh I'm good	02:36
IdleOne	I like my intel hardware	02:37
IdleOne	WFM!	02:37
Anthropod16	Hmmm, so is it likely a jockey problem is when i type dkms status and nvidia is added and not installed?	02:38
fulvi0	who can help me with a problem? ubuntu does not recognize the monitor :S	02:39
fulvi0	i have a dell mini 10	02:39
fulvi0	????	02:40
bjsnider	Anthropod16, negative. jockey does not touch dkms. reinstall nvidia-current	02:41
Anthropod16	ok	02:41
bjsnider	assuming that's the appropriate driver for you hardware	02:42
fulvi0	ubuntu does not recognize the monitor, how can i install? :S	02:42
bjsnider	fulvi0, first thing i would do, is probably use a stable distro, which lucid ain't. karmic or hardy	02:43
fulvi0	karmic	02:44
fulvi0	9.10	02:44
Anthropod16	ok here is the error that i keep getting: E: /var/cache/apt/archives/nvidia-glx-190_190.53-0ubuntu1~karmic~nvidiavdpauppa8_i386.deb: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 2	02:45
bjsnider	if you're using karmic you shouldn't be asking in here, as it is off-topic	02:45
Anthropod16	oh, ok	02:45
td123	what is so special about empathy that it replaced pidgin?	02:46
IdleOne	telepathy tubes	02:46
bjsnider	oh, not this again	02:47
IdleOne	the tubes allow empathy to read your mind provided you install the proper plugin	02:47
bjsnider	td123, you can give someone else, probably jack the ripper or someone, complete control of your computer from a remote location	02:47
IdleOne	:)	02:47
bjsnider	and ain't that great	02:47
fulvi0	how can i? (pardon my ignorance but I am new to ubuntu)	02:47
IdleOne	bjsnider: that is not true	02:47
IdleOne	well partially true	02:48
bjsnider	uh huh	02:48
td123	so empathy has some sort of remote desktop feature?	02:48
IdleOne	td123: yes	02:48
bjsnider	Anthropod16, when did this happen?	02:48
td123	wow, isn't that basically a security issue?	02:49
bjsnider	no, of course it isn't	02:49
bjsnider	what makes you think it's a security issue?	02:49
IdleOne	td123: more like a share desktop feature and you can give permission to let the other person control also	02:49
IdleOne	bjsnider: it's not like it automatically gives root access	02:49
td123	dunno, doesn't ubuntu already have a built in remote destop feature?	02:50
IdleOne	td123: yes, empathy's feature is to simulate yahoo's share desktop feature	02:50
Anthropod16	after i did a package update.	02:51
td123	IdleOne: I mean another way, besides empathy	02:51
IdleOne	td123: yes.	02:51
bjsnider	Anthropod16, ok, more details than that would be helpful	02:51
td123	ok whatever :P	02:52
td123	idc, pidgin is a command away from being installed, just annoying	02:52
Anthropod16	Well, i upgraded my distro about 2 weeks ago. the other day i did a package update and my nvidia driver was not found (before the desktop showed) and used decreased quality graphics. I changed the xconfig to nv and then it has shown, but then going to hardware drivers the nvidia driver is not shown	02:54
Anthropod16	i have an nvidia geforce go 7200, im trying to install the recommended driver for 'go' cards by the nvidia website	02:56
bjsnider	Anthropod16, you upgraded to karmic or lucid?	02:56
Anthropod16	karmic	02:56
bjsnider	you upgraded from jaunty?	02:57
Anthropod16	yes	02:57
fulvi0	someone can't help with the monitor	02:57
fulvi0	:s	02:57
bjsnider	Anthropod16, and how did you end up with the nvidia-vdpau ppa?	02:59
Some_Person	Can anyone tell me if the package ``human-theme'' conflicts with ``gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks'' in lucid?	02:59
Anthropod16	i installed it after i was having trouble.	02:59
bjsnider	so you already had a broken nvidia blob before you tried the ppa package	03:00
bjsnider	you have not discovered the cause of the original problem	03:01
Anthropod16	not really, i figured since the resolution changed after i changed the xconfig that it was fixed	03:01
bjsnider	wait, do you mean nvidia-xconfig? have you been using that command?	03:02
Anthropod16	that is what my nvidia x server said to do. which i did first	03:03
Anthropod16	now it cannot even find the command	03:04
bjsnider	your error says the preinst script exited with an error. that script removes diversions and then adds new ones. so your system probably has borked diversions from an older nvidia driver	03:07
Anthropod16	ok, i have reinstalled my previous kernel source and glx	03:08
Anthropod16	do i need to reboot to see the effect?	03:09
bjsnider	no	03:09
bjsnider	pastebin your /etc/X11/xorg.conf	03:09
Anthropod16	pastebin?	03:10
bjsnider	!pastebin	03:10
ubottu	For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://ubuntu.pastebin.com \| To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin \| !pastebinit to paste directly from command line \| Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic	03:10
Some_Person	Can anyone tell me if the package ``human-theme'' conflicts with ``gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks'' in lucid?	03:12
Anthropod16	http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m1ffd2217	03:13
bjsnider	Anthropod16, what does dkms status get you?	03:15
Anthropod16	nvidia, 185.18.36: added	03:16
bjsnider	not acceptable. it needs to say installed, not added	03:16
bjsnider	it is not even built	03:16
Anthropod16	oh, is that the dkms build nvidia 12.18.36?	03:17
bjsnider	it's in the packaging scripts	03:17
bjsnider	reinstall nvidia-glx-180	03:17
bjsnider	or 185	03:18
Anthropod16	ok	03:18
bjsnider	!info nvidia-glx-185 karmic	03:18
ubottu	nvidia-glx-185 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-180): NVIDIA binary Xorg driver. In component restricted, is optional. Version 185.18.36-0ubuntu9 (karmic), package size 8771 kB, installed size 26596 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia)	03:18
bjsnider	reinstall that	03:18
bjsnider	reinstall nvidia-185-kernel-source too	03:20
Anthropod16	bah, i reinstalled both but dkms says the same	03:21
bjsnider	there must be an error message ont eh command line of the kernel source package	03:21
bjsnider	it is not doing its job	03:21
Anthropod16	ughh	03:23
bjsnider	try this: sudo apt-get purge nvidia-glx-185 nvidia-185-kernel-source	03:23
bjsnider	then install them	03:23
Anthropod16	k	03:24
bjsnider	good thing installing graphics drivers is an easy, transparent process for regular users	03:25
Anthropod16	my god...	03:27
Anthropod16	i have a feeling im doing something stupid.	03:27
Anthropod16	from the update: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m11a6fff8	03:28
bjsnider	what kernel are you using?	03:29
bjsnider	!info linux-image karmic	03:29
ubottu	linux-image (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image.. In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.31.17.30 (karmic), package size 3 kB, installed size 32 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia all)	03:29
Anthropod16	linux 2.6.31-17-generic (i686)	03:31
bjsnider	alright, first of all, disable the ppa	03:31
Anthropod16	ok	03:31
bjsnider	after that: sudo apt-get autoclean	03:32
bjsnider	then update and purge the packages like before	03:32
bjsnider	then try to reinstall, and this time you'll be grabbing the archive version	03:33
Anthropod16	nvidia-glx-185:	03:34
Anthropod16	Depends: nvidia-185-libvdpau but it is not going to be installed	03:34
bjsnider	Anthropod16, purge nvidia-190-libvdpau	03:35
Anthropod16	couldnt find package.	03:36
bjsnider	try to install nvidia-185-libvdpau and see why it refuses	03:38
Anthropod16	that worked	03:40
Anthropod16	but then kernel source and glx didnt	03:40
Anthropod16	it says to check make.log for why it wouldnt build, so im there	03:43
Anthropod16	and it says The C compiler 'cc' does not appear to be able to	03:44
Anthropod16	create executables. Please make sure you have	03:44
Anthropod16	your Linux distribution's gcc and libc development	03:44
Anthropod16	packages installed.	03:44
IdleOne	Anthropod16: what did you do to your install lol	03:44
Anthropod16	i made a big goof i think, lol.	03:44
IdleOne	Anthropod16: install build-essential	03:44
bjsnider	build-essential is not necessary	03:45
Anthropod16	lol, same error.	03:45
bjsnider	Anthropod16, use pastebin to show me the last go around	03:45
IdleOne	oh wait yeah you need the -dev	03:45
Anthropod16	the make.log?	03:46
bjsnider	no, not the make.log, the attempt to install the kernel source package	03:47
Anthropod16	http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m55ae70f8	03:49
bjsnider	Anthropod16, you said you upgraded to karmic. how did you go about doing that?	03:49
Some_Person	Can anyone tell me if the package ``human-theme'' conflicts with ``gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks'' in lucid?	03:49
Anthropod16	through the update manager.	03:49
bjsnider	Anthropod16, update-manager prompted you to upgrade to karmic, or you tried manually?	03:51
Anthropod16	i think i clicked the Karmic Koala is out!" in update manager	03:52
Anthropod16	did i goof?	03:53
RAOF	Some_Person: It Conflicts: and Replaces:, which means that it'll cleanly remove gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks, yes.	03:54
Anthropod16	your lack of response is scaring me.	03:55
Some_Person	RAOF: Urgh, why the hell won't the ubuntu devs fix that age old bug?!	03:56
Some_Person	If a 16 year old guy like me with little programming experience can fix it for karmic, why can't they do it?	03:57
RAOF	Probably because no-one's been interested? Have you attached a debdiff to the bug?	03:57
bjsnider	Anthropod16, was the process interrupted or were there error messages?	03:57
Anthropod16	no. i remember everything ran smoothly.	03:58
bjsnider	evidently not so smoothly as you think	03:58
Anthropod16	:S	03:58
Anthropod16	yeah, i didnt get the ubuntu software center	03:59
Some_Person	The only problem is that part of the old Human theme (back when it used the ubuntulooks engine) is in gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks. Rename that to Human-ubuntulooks or delete that, and all works fine	03:59
RAOF	Some_Person: It clearly requires changes to both gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks (which is abandoned, by the way), and to human-theme.	03:59
Some_Person	The only change to human-theme is to remove the conflicts line	03:59
Some_Person	I did it here for karmic: https://launchpad.net/~stownsend42/+archive/ubuntulooks-fix	04:00
bjsnider	Anthropod16, i suppose you could check your gcc packages to make sure they're karmic versions and everything	04:00
RAOF	Right. But someone has to do that. And a sponsorable-debdiff on a bug has a much lower “ok, I'll do that” threshold than “here's how to do it” or “it's broken”.	04:01
Anthropod16	!gcc	04:01
ubottu	Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first)	04:01
RAOF	I guess the fact that gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks has been abandoned wouldn't help motivation, either.	04:01
Anthropod16	how would i do that?	04:02
Some_Person	yeah, but this is an easy-as-hell fix that lets you use a lot of themes (several in the ubuntu repos) without trashing human-theme	04:02
Some_Person	ok, how do I do a debdiff?	04:03
RAOF	!debdiff	04:03
Anthropod16	bjsnider, how would i check my gcc packages?	04:03
bjsnider	i'd do it through synaptic. others like to use various command line tricks	04:04
Anthropod16	oh, ok	04:04
Anthropod16	search for gcc, or....?	04:05
Some_Person	Whoops, there's really no need to: someone already friggin did one!	04:05
RAOF	Some_Person: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff	04:06
Some_Person	and it was in january 09	04:06
Spirits-Sight	I am wondering, how can I get my ubuntu 10.04 alpha 1 to upgrade to alpha 2 with new kernel and what not as it seems like it did a update but not alot of the stuff it says is new tolk place it appears	04:06
Spirits-Sight	gnome is at 2.29.4 build date 01-06-2010	04:07
Anthropod16	bjsnider, all of the results for gcc in synaptic were for karmic :/	04:10
bjsnider	Anthropod16, your task at this point seems depressingly clear.	04:14
* Anthropod16 gives the little boy who's dog is gonna die face		04:14
Anthropod16	lol jk, what do i have to do?	04:15
IdleOne	backup,fresh install.	04:16
Anthropod16	ok	04:16
bjsnider	there are things i might do like purging everything i can and then installing fresh packages, but they're realtively advanced commands, and you seem unsure of yourself on that front	04:18
Anthropod16	yes, im not too advanced.	04:19
DanaG	✈⃣	04:22
DanaG	heh, an "airplane" key. =þ	04:22
Anthropod16	Any suggestions as to the most efficient backing up method?	04:22
bjsnider	DanaG, what super-secret method did you use to make that happen?	04:23
Anthropod16	character map + key bind?	04:24
DanaG	gucharmap... "combining keycap".	04:24
DanaG	copied and pasted.	04:24
DanaG	two characters there: airplane, and combining-keycap.	04:24
DanaG	⃠	04:26
IdleOne	⃠	04:27
DanaG	s/d//	04:27
DanaG	er	04:27
DanaG	dang scroll	04:27
DanaG	last one: a⃫r⃫g⃫h⃫	04:28
DanaG	"combining diacritical marks for symbols"	04:28
bjsnider	diacritical...	04:29
DanaG	✈⃠	04:30
DanaG	okay, /me closes gucharmap before people get too irritated. =þ	04:30
Anthropod16	is there anything that is particularly important to back up?	04:35
bjsnider	DanaG, i'm highly diacritical of you	04:37
DanaG	=þ	04:38
geitenneuker	high	04:44
geitenneuker	how can i see what graphic driver has being installed?	04:44
DanaG	low.	04:45
DanaG	=þ	04:45
geitenneuker	yeah ttl low	04:50
geitenneuker	:ø	04:50
geitenneuker	2.6.33 and noveau comes to late i think	04:56
geitenneuker	following version of lucid lynx is spastic sparrow afaik	04:57
geitenneuker	lunatic lemur and spastic sparrow is a good release name	04:57
DanaG	what happens once they reach 'z'?	04:58
geitenneuker	it begins with aa	04:59
DanaG	LM 2010, NO 2011, PQ 2012, RS 2013, TU 2014, VW 2015, XY 2016, Z... 2017.	04:59
DanaG	so we have a while left yet.	04:59
geitenneuker	let me think	05:00
geitenneuker	they begin from new and add a II behind	05:02
geitenneuker	e.g 2030 lucid lynx II	05:02
geitenneuker	e.g 2030 lucid lynx reloaded	05:03
geitenneuker	or something	05:03
DanaG	hmm, what's a good cpu-only benchmark for Linux?	05:25
bjsnider	DanaG, i'm not sure you can do one that's 100% independent of any other possible choke point, notably ramspeed, but i'd try the phoronix-test-suite and h.264 decoding (without vdpau obviously)	05:46
bjsnider	h264 is a cpu-killer	05:46
DanaG	I'm pondering comparing the p4-celeron 1.6 with nv17 nouveau ... to the atom with Intel gpu.	05:47
geitenneuker	yeah	05:49
geitenneuker	did the cpu die?	05:50
geitenneuker	i love h264, because you need 4x less bandwitdh compared to mpeg2	05:50
geitenneuker	dvd quality with just 1mbit	05:50
RAOF	DanaG: Oooh. That might be close :)	05:51
RAOF	The GPU is probably more powerful than the Intel one, at least :). And the p4, while having a pretty poor per-cycle performance might still beat the in-order atom.	05:53
bjsnider	RAOF, but the p4 would have one extra special feature. it runs hot enough to fry an egg	05:54
RAOF	It does have that, too. And were they still shipping celerons with no L2 cache in the p4 era?	06:02
DanaG	bjsnider: and that p4 has 15-minute battery life (old battery)... compared to the 7 hours the netbook claims (via acpi) to offer.	06:30
DanaG	whoever thought of putting a p4 in a laptop... was really stupid. And then making it a celeron? Stupid squared.	06:31
DanaG	hmm, in gnome-mplayer, how do you grab a screenshot?	06:48
XamDM	is the nvidia-driver still broken ????	09:19
SwedeMike	XamDM: worked for me a week ago.	09:19
SwedeMike	or... started working again after a month of not working, then.	09:20
XamDM	SwedeMike, i can install it but only works with a modified xorg.conf but glx doesn't work	09:20
SwedeMike	you're talking about what nvidia driver? the restricted one? because that's not the one I was talking about.	09:22
XamDM	yes the restricted tested the nvidia-current and the nvidia-173 packages	09:23
hype_	Hi	09:41
hype_	anyone having issue with Alpha2 64bits Livecd? sems like gdm wont start (and i have no access to TTY's)	09:42
tgpraveen	hi I just upgraded to lucid from karmic and I think I have run into dependency hell	09:50
tgpraveen	this Is the output of my sudo apt-get upgrade	09:50
tgpraveen	http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/358413/	09:51
tgpraveen	somebody please help	09:51
slytherin	tgpraveen: what does apt-get -f install say?	10:03
slytherin	tgpraveen: another issue is that post-inst script of package libavutil-extra-49 seems to be corrupt/malformed. May be this means that package download itself was corrupt.	10:05
tgpraveen	slytherin: trying one sec	10:10
tgpraveen	http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/358422/	10:10
tgpraveen	slytherin: ^^	10:10
schmidtm	i just filed bug #509067 regarding a dependency problem of python-vm-builder on lucid amd64	10:11
ubottu	Launchpad bug 509067 in vm-builder "python-vm-builder depends on grub 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509067	10:11
aprilhare	hello	10:22
aprilhare	is it worth thinking about upgrading to lucid yet or should i wait?	10:23
CosmiChaos	theres no final lucid yet	10:23
CosmiChaos	so theres only possibility to upgrade to lucid alpha 2	10:23
CosmiChaos	keep in mind that it always is not a good idea to install alpha/beta on productive mashines/users that have a need for a permanent working system	10:24
arand	aprilhare: depends on how much breakage you're willing to hop through, at this point I'm guessing there might be still quite a few hurdles ahead...	10:25
CosmiChaos	you will likely experience crashs, bugs, things not working, things just missing ... :)	10:25
CosmiChaos	too, upgrading to final from a alpha/beta sometimes goes wrong in detail	10:26
aprilhare	arand: sounds like i should wait till beta :)	10:26
CosmiChaos	so better to reinstall mashine with a clean final when its released when now upgrading to an alpha/beta, but you can have a try ;)	10:27
BUGabundo_remote	morning	10:29
* BUGabundo_remote wonders if danag filed the stupid UI gnome tabs in bottom bug		10:30
aprilhare	what's gunna be the big thing to make me want lucid? :)	10:30
tgpraveen	BUGabundo_remote: I just upgraded to lucid and that tab at bottom is really irritating	10:31
CosmiChaos	aprilhare, on final it will be grub 2 by default, plymouth by default, no udev anymore, kernel 2.6.32, kde 4.4	10:31
BUGabundo_remote	tgpraveen: mind filing the bug in LP an upstream?	10:31
CosmiChaos	very quick boot as far as i can see	10:31
BUGabundo_remote	a bit busy here	10:31
arand	aprilhare: pitivi :þ	10:32
BUGabundo_remote	arand: :p	10:32
tgpraveen	aprilhare: check out the blueprints	10:32
CosmiChaos	aprilhare, too, we should have a working nouveaou driver for 10.04 and so KMS support for intel, radeon and nvidia	10:32
arand	There's some panel overhaul rumored as well I think...	10:33
CosmiChaos	what do you mean?	10:34
arand	Not quite sure, "panel overhaul" is pretty much all I've heard..	10:35
CosmiChaos	tgpraveen, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid is very uninformative for a conservative user	10:35
tgpraveen	arand: many new application indicators,etc are coming	10:37
tgpraveen	and there will be a me menu instead of fusa right now	10:38
CosmiChaos	i hope skinning gdm with gdm-themes instead of complicated switching gtk-themes will work soon or is planned to be reworked	10:39
arand	tgpraveen: might be that I heard about...	10:39
BUGabundo_remote	tgpraveen: so that's why right now I have two FUSAs ?	10:41
arand	CosmiChaos: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdm-custom-greeter-support "Not Started" >_<	10:41
CosmiChaos	arand, he i just want the usual gdm themes to gdm greeter apps	10:42
tgpraveen	BUGabundo_remote: yeah it's a WIP. there is a wiki page on how it will look in the end with support for broadcasting on twitter or facebook status etc	10:42
CosmiChaos	to=not	10:42
BUGabundo_remote	uuuuuhhhh twit and FB	10:42
BUGabundo_remote	can't wait for it	10:42
BUGabundo_remote	[/sarcarsm]	10:42
arand	I think it's supposed to be one for shutdown, one for social status and one for applications, or something like that...	10:43
arand	Way to clutter the systray!	10:43
CosmiChaos	nonsense if you ask me	10:43
CosmiChaos	i use pidgin	10:43
BUGabundo_remote	+	10:43
CosmiChaos	:)	10:43
BUGabundo_remote	+	10:43
BUGabundo_remote	+1	10:44
BUGabundo_remote	great... my num lock stop working	10:44
CosmiChaos	nice you telling everyone	10:44
* BUGabundo_remote goes file nautilus bug		10:44
* DanaG wonders: if nvidia "tegra 2" has opengl support... would it run ubuntu?		10:45
DanaG	Frankly, I wouldn't hold my breath for drivers.	10:45
BUGabundo_remote	some ppl should just stay put :( http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/detail?id=1019	10:46
BUGabundo_remote	wb DanaG	10:47
DanaG	not for long... 2:47 AM is late enough.	10:47
tgpraveen	BUGabundo_remote: link	10:47
tgpraveen	?	10:47
tgpraveen	arand: the whole idea is to unclutter the tray like how messaging indicator absorbs 3-4 icons	10:48
BUGabundo_remote	tgpraveen: ?	10:48
DanaG	great... so now how many clicks to open the buddy-list window?	10:48
tgpraveen	for nautilius bug	10:48
DanaG	As it is right now, it takes just one.	10:48
BUGabundo_remote	I'm filling it now tgpraveen	10:48
DanaG	pidgin, specifically.	10:48
arand	tgpraveen: of course, provided everyone uses four social media thingies simultaneously..	10:49
BUGabundo_remote	DanaG: tgpraveen: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/509079 go get it. I'm sending it upstream	10:50
ubottu	Ubuntu bug 509079 in nautilus "nautilus has tabs on bottom" [Undecided,New]	10:50
BUGabundo_remote	someone ping seb128 when he wakes up	10:50
BUGabundo_remote	(10:51:05 AM) seb128: it's not a bug	10:51
BUGabundo_remote	(10:51:33 AM) seb128: upstream decided it would be clearer this way	10:52
BUGabundo_remote	(10:51:42 AM) seb128: to not have toolbar, url bar, tabs, etc stacked	10:52
* DanaG uses ZERO social media thingies. =P		10:52
DanaG	I check my facebook once every, oh, two months. maybe.	10:52
DanaG	So instead, I middle-click a folder.... no tab opens.	10:52
Trewas	BUGabundo_remote: there's already gnome bug 606027	10:52
ubottu	Gnome bug 606027 in Tabs "Tabs should be displayed at the top" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606027	10:52
DanaG	Okay, middle click again... where are my tabs?	10:52
tgpraveen	BUGabundo_remote: ok after filing give the link I want to subscribe to	10:52
tgpraveen	too	10:52
DanaG	middle-click. middle-click.	10:52
DanaG	Oh wait, now I see I have 5 tabs open.... where I wasn't looking.	10:53
arand	Hmm, I would actually find it somewhat useful if they, for once, integrated ThunderB into the indicator...	10:53
tgpraveen	DanaG: yeah I was having the same confusion whne I first used it.	10:55
* tgpraveen doesn't use facebook at all. and doesn't even get why its so popular		10:56
DanaG	for me, it's EVERY time I try to use it.	10:57
DanaG	I also ran into a similar "ALWAYS confusing" issue with the game Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 recently...	10:57
DanaG	I'm used to AutoCAD: Middle is pan, Right is rotate.	10:58
DanaG	The game: Middle is rotate, right is pan.	10:58
DanaG	I found it similarly impossible to get used to that... it NEVER stopped confusing me.	10:58
BUGabundo_remote	tgpraveen: DanaG: seb128 says it WON'T change. upstream wants so. if we really want to change it, we should talk to alex at #nautilus on irc.gnome.org	11:00
BUGabundo_remote	but don't troll around...	11:00
BUGabundo_remote	bugs linkes	11:01
BUGabundo_remote	*linked	11:01
aprilhare	i just hope lucid supports my webcam. its like support for my webcam gets dropped from kernel	11:02
aprilhare	when released that is	11:02
DanaG	they should make it a ***** gconf setting, then!	11:03
DanaG	Is that really so hard?	11:03
aprilhare	nightly builds support my webcam but releases don't	11:03
aprilhare	DanaG: apparently	11:03
BUGabundo_remote	aprilhare: that wasn't meant to you	11:04
aprilhare	oh	11:04
DanaG	sorry, yeah, griping about nautilus.	11:04
* aprilhare is more tired than he thought		11:04
aprilhare	night	11:04
* DanaG goes orf to bedd.		11:08
=== Nakkel is now known as EvilAdmin_
=== EvilAdmin_ is now known as Nakkel
tgpraveen1	does anyone know when gstreamer-bad will be back I did a partial upgrade which removed it when I upgraded to lucid from karmic today?	11:49
vish	http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1343434	11:53
dupondje	could somebody try to reproduce the following bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/508930 in Lucid ?	12:15
ubottu	Ubuntu bug 508930 in samba "CIFS mount is offline every x minutes/seconds" [Undecided,New]	12:15
duffydack	so if i have win7 - karmic - lucid and I wanna remove lucid, do I have to run grub-install after removing the partition, since its using a newer grub than karmics	12:42
BUGabundo_remote	dupondje: I don't think its only samba	13:07
BUGabundo_remote	any mount point I have, gets unmounted after X time of inactivity	13:07
dupondje	BUGabundo_remote: its not unmounting	13:08
dupondje	its a hickup	13:08
dupondje	it keeps mounted	13:08
dupondje	but gives a hickup every x minutes/seconds	13:09
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== malnilion_ is now known as malnilion
charlie-tca	Good Morning! a little help, please. I upgraded a VirtualBox 9.10 to Lucid; now it won't start gdm automatically. I have to go to recovery mode, switch to a tty, then start gdm to get to the desktop	16:11
charlie-tca	nm, apparently, had to install guest additions to get it to work again	16:13
BUGabundo_remote	charlie-tca: that's a rookie mistake :D	16:15
BUGabundo_remote	always install GA... it's the drivers needed for it to wrok	16:15
charlie-tca	Why should I need GA? I didn't need it for the initial install	16:15
kklimonda	hey BUGabundo_remote	16:15
charlie-tca	Hello, BUGabundo_remote	16:16
BUGabundo_remote	hey kklimonda.long time no talk	16:16
kklimonda	indeed	16:16
BUGabundo_remote	charlie-tca: I always need it ! its like a requirement for me	16:16
charlie-tca	I think you are right. I had to install them in lucid guest session before to reboot it	16:16
* charlie-tca slaps head; forgot that part		16:16
BUGabundo_remote	ahah	16:16
BluesKaj	hmm, i just got disconnected from freenode for no apparent reason.	16:17
BUGabundo_remote	after 3 years stucking with me, you should already know I'm always right charlie-tca	16:17
charlie-tca	yeah, I know.	16:17
charlie-tca	BluesKaj: here is the error message from that: BluesKaj has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))	16:18
charlie-tca	Might be a faulty connection?	16:18
BluesKaj	thanks charlie-tca ..timed out ?	16:18
charlie-tca	Usually means the connection dropped, doesn't it?	16:19
BluesKaj	nope , wife's pc is on line without probs	16:19
BluesKaj	the freenose connection could have been faulty , yes	16:21
BluesKaj	freenode :)	16:21
BluesKaj	freenose connection ...open sourc e facelifts :)	16:21
BluesKaj	do you guys have probs with cdrom not showing up in /dolphin places ? I can't burn anything , k3b doesn't see the cdrom ..checked fstab and it looks normal	16:23
charlie-tca__	I don't use dolphin	16:24
charlie-tca__	but I do know I don't get anything to automount in lucid	16:24
charlie-tca__	I have to manually mount the cdrom drive to use it	16:24
yofel	BluesKaj: I burned something yesterday with k3b, can you mount the drive in a terminal?	16:24
BluesKaj	yofel , yes	16:25
yofel	hm	16:25
BluesKaj	I did copy some files to a dvd-rw to make sure I had an avenue	16:26
yofel	then I don't know, works fine here	16:26
BluesKaj	cp /"name of files " /dev/scd0	16:27
BluesKaj	that worked ..k3b doesn't recognze any media I mount in the cdrom	16:27
yofel	the dvd+rw I burned something on wasn't empty though, maybe there are issues with empty disks?	16:27
BluesKaj	blank media that is	16:28
yofel	yep	16:28
BluesKaj	anyway I'll just use the cli ... trying to convert some mkv files to mpg but ffmpeg errors out as does mencoder	16:29
BUGabundo_remote	charlie-tca__: my DVD drive doesn't work, but that's prob from droping into the follor	16:29
BluesKaj	I thought if I could burn the files to a dvd then rip them they would convert	16:30
charlie-tca__	BUGabundo_remote: Yeah, I have a hard drive that way. It won't work after sailing about 10 feet (3 meters)	16:30
BluesKaj	hehe	16:30
* charlie-tca__ didn't think it was too far, but the drive seems to		16:32
=== Mark_M is now known as Mark_M\|Away
=== blackxored is now known as Guest15704
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_M
kklimonda	huh, my vmware installation of lucid fails to detect keyboard	16:55
BUGabundo_remote	my NoMachine/FreeNX system won't use my numpad...	16:56
kklimonda	numpad? haven't seen it in a while :)	16:57
BUGabundo_remote	hoy	17:03
BUGabundo_remote	I totally forgot	17:04
BUGabundo_remote	can anyone stop on grub ??	17:04
BUGabundo_remote	since Friday mine won't stop... at least pressing left SHIFT	17:04
BUGabundo_remote	just boots :((((	17:04
BluesKaj	your time out in grub is probly set to "0"	17:04
charlie-tca__	I set mine up to stop from /etc/default	17:05
charlie-tca__	I broke a keyboard last week because of that issue, though	17:06
kklimonda	BUGabundo_remote, I just stop it in vm	17:06
kklimonda	are there mirrors for alpha releases?	17:06
kklimonda	I can't get decent speed from neither torrent or cdimage.u.c	17:06
BluesKaj	yeah i have mine set to GRUB_TIMEOUT="10"	17:07
crimsun	kklimonda: http://se.archive.ubuntu.com/mirror/cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/alpha-2/	17:08
kklimonda	crimsun: thanks, much better	17:09
WeatherGod	speaking of the alpha releases, I haven't seen any new daily builds since the 14th	17:09
crimsun	that's because the livefs builds were turned off	17:10
crimsun	I suspect once holiday is over they will be reenabled	17:11
BUGabundo_remote	kklimonda: we have on in PT	17:11
BUGabundo_remote	holidays??	17:11
maco	BUGabundo_remote: US holiday for a civil rights leader	17:12
maco	(Martin Luther King Jr)	17:12
WeatherGod	ah, ok	17:12
WeatherGod	I suspected as such	17:13
pasjr	If I clean cache via Ubuntu Tweak Package Cleaner, will I lose updated and upgraded packages? Or will the packages be installed and safely stored?	17:15
WeatherGod	has anyone noticed a change in the behavior of "Show Desktop"?	17:15
WeatherGod	in UNR, "Show Desktop" will show the desktop when clicked, and then does nothing for the next click	17:16
WeatherGod	usually, it should bring the windows back up	17:16
charlie-tca__	WeatherGod: works in xubuntu	17:17
yofel	pasjr: a) ubuntu tweak isn't supported here, b) depends on what cleaning cache means, if it just removes the .deb file cache you installed applications won't be touched	17:17
pasjr	ok thank you	17:18
WeatherGod	charlie-tca, hmmm, might have to report it as a bug then	17:18
WeatherGod	I will double-check later today with the latest build	17:19
BUGabundo_remote	WeatherGod: works for me in gnome with Compiz	17:19
WeatherGod	maybe it is just UNR then?	17:20
tgpraveen	hey all any idea how to solve this problem	18:05
tgpraveen	ttp://pastebin.ubuntu.com/358610/	18:06
tgpraveen	I get it when I try to sudo apt-get remove swell-foop	18:06
WeatherGod	my best guess is that it is a corrupted download or something	18:10
WeatherGod	try clearing your cache and installing it again	18:10
tgpraveen	WeatherGod: what's the command to clear cache	18:12
bjsnider	apt-get autoclean	18:14
WeatherGod	no	18:14
WeatherGod	apt-get clean	18:14
tgpraveen	none of them helped	18:15
WeatherGod	autoclean only clears some stuff	18:15
WeatherGod	hmm	18:15
tgpraveen	lemme restart	18:15
=== Authority_ is now known as Authority
* genii hands out more coffees		18:24
setuid	I'm having the weirdest problem when coming out of suspend with lucid on my T61p with the Nvidia drivers	18:24
setuid	it gives me this blocky, colored screen (looks like an old Atari screen), then goes black, adn then I have to alt-F7 to get into X, and when I do, the wallpaper is all zig-zag black and white "stairs"	18:32
setuid	Anyone seen this before?	18:32
WeatherGod	nope, sorry	18:38
WeatherGod	which drivers are you using?	18:38
setuid	185.18.36-0ubuntu9	18:42
setuid	Just found this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaLaptopBinaryDriverSuspend	18:42
setuid	Trying some of those ideas now, and downloading 190.53	18:43
setuid	http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/190.53/NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-190.53-pkg2.run	18:43
yofel	why aren't you using the 190.53 driver from the repos?	18:44
setuid	Because it's not in there	18:44
yofel	setuid: it IS there, it's called nvidia-current	18:44
setuid	installing now..	18:44
bjsnider	the 185 is now an upgrade to the 190, so he was just not doing any upgrades	18:46
BluesKaj	bjsnider, the 190 has 2 versions .. the earlier one broke X	19:01
setuid_	Darn wifi... ok, next problem before I reboot to test this nvidia issue. How do I set the vga= line in grub2?	19:04
setuid_	I need my vga at boot to be 37D	19:04
setuid_	There's a menu.lst in /boot/grub, but it seems to be completely ignored	19:05
setuid_	I set GRUB_GFXMODE=1920x1200 in /etc/default/grub, but that fails too	19:05
setuid_	/etc/default/grub suggestes running vbeinfo to query modes, but that doesn't exist in all of Ubuntu, in any package	19:06
setuid_	At least as far as apt-file search can query	19:06
charlie-tca__	setuid: add it to the /etc/default/grub GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"	19:07
setuid_	Mine already says:	19:07
setuid_	GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="vga=37D elevator=noop noinotify noonotify pci=routeirq noatime norelatime"	19:07
setuid_	All of that is completely ignored	19:08
charlie-tca__	37D is hex, I think and needs to be 0x037D	19:08
charlie-tca__	with all that on the line, you don't get a splash screen, right?	19:08
setuid_	Nope, no splash, and nothing but a blank screen. I have to switch to the second console to put in the password for my encrypted partitions	19:11
setuid_	On karmic, it was all on the first console	19:11
setuid_	It's definitely weird	19:11
setuid_	On karmic, jaunty, gutsy... vga=37D worked fine, maybe grub2 needs the full value. I'll try that.	19:12
dupondje	hi :)	19:14
charlie-tca__	or maybe it is just still broken for lucid	19:14
CosmiChaos	setuid you found ways to activate splash in lucid? O.o tell me	19:18
CosmiChaos	im with nvidia ;)	19:18
DanaG	try 0x37d	19:20
DanaG	or try the grub gfxpayload thingy.	19:20
DanaG	should be googleable.	19:20
=== NotADJ is now known as TheDJACR
dupondje	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/508930	19:22
ubottu	Ubuntu bug 508930 in linux "CIFS mount is offline every x minutes/seconds" [Undecided,New]	19:22
dupondje	somebody having same issues with Lucid ?	19:22
Bookman	Any ideas why I have no sound at all? When I check on the hardware in Sound Preferences, it is blank. I don't think it is picking up my sound card at all.	19:46
WeatherGod	Bookman, if no sound devices are showing up, it is likely that a driver wasn't choosen for your card	19:49
WeatherGod	what kind of sound card do you have	19:50
DanaG	it may also be consolekit issues... I had that happen.	19:50
DanaG	go to console and aplay -L	19:50
DanaG	and then sudo aplay -L	19:50
WeatherGod	true	19:50
DanaG	if non-root doesn't work but root does, that's consolekit.	19:50
BluesKaj	or try, lspci \| grep audio	19:50
Bookman	My card is integrated (laptop) AC97	19:51
Bookman	aplay reports the card fine.	19:51
WeatherGod	hmm, that is odd	19:52
Bookman	Yup	19:52
WeatherGod	might be a pulseaudio issue, maybe?	19:53
kklimonda	how is nouveau driver? usable?	19:53
WeatherGod	for 2D, yeah	19:53
WeatherGod	more than sufficient	19:53
kklimonda	suspend and hibernation works?	19:54
WeatherGod	dunno for sure, but I have had some people report problems with the nvidia drivers with resume, and then say it works fine with nouveau	19:55
WeatherGod	ymmv	19:55
kklimonda	yeah, I know	19:55
WeatherGod	but it is supporting a lot of cards that nvidia no longer supports	19:56
kklimonda	I have a "well supported" card but I hate missing plymouth, xrandr 1.2, working hibernation..	19:57
WeatherGod	well, rumor has it that the nvidia microcode will be included in the next kernel release (won't be for Lucid, though)	19:58
WeatherGod	maybe it will be backported, though?	19:59
kklimonda	oh, they've decided to do it after all?	19:59
WeatherGod	that's what I am hearing, but it would be for the one released in March	19:59
WeatherGod	the rc's are available, though	20:00
Bookman	I think I will try booting into Kubuntu to see if that is any better at picking up the sound card.	20:03
Bookman	I am upgrading and maybe this is some of my troubles? Could not install 'linux-image-2.6.32-10-generic'	20:07
Bookman	The upgrade will continue but the 'linux-image-2.6.32-10-generic' package may not be in a working state.	20:07
WeatherGod	hmmm, possibly	20:09
yofel	any more info? can you try 'sudo aptitude reinstall linux-image-2.6.32-10-generic' in a terminal?	20:09
yofel	as this is the kernel package the chances are high that this will cause troubles	20:10
CosmiChaos	nouveau works? how	20:13
Bookman	yofel, My system is trying to recover itself at the moment.	20:14
CosmiChaos	when i try to install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau it forces me to remove xserver-xorg	20:14
CosmiChaos	+ -core + -input-*	20:15
yofel	CosmiChaos: the package seems to depend on the old xserver, maybe you can get a newer version from the xorg edgers ppa?	20:15
CosmiChaos	have you got a link for me please?	20:16
* yofel wonders why people never want to use google...		20:17
yofel	https://edge.launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa	20:17
yofel	please read the notices on the page	20:18
CosmiChaos	so i would try the karmic one? thanks at all	20:18
yofel	what karmic one?	20:19
yofel	xserver?	20:19
yofel	if you're not sure you can handle breaking your system by using the ppa then you should rather wait until the nouveau driver in the archive works	20:20
setuid	grub2 is an absolute trainwreck... how do I get the old grub back? I purged and removed all of grub2 from the system... but it's booted. How do I reinstall a proper bootloader, before I reboot this and render it unbootable?	20:20
yofel	setuid: install the 'grub' package afaik	20:21
CosmiChaos	i will give it a shoot? but i guess it would not fix plymouth splash right?	20:21
CosmiChaos	setuid, well i think grub 2 is nice, whats the problem with it	20:22
yofel	as I'm not sure what plymouth is supposed to look like right now I don't know, but I heard you need KMS to use it right now	20:22
setuid	CosmiChaos, as with almost everything in lucid... it removes functionality, de-evolving to something almost entirely useless (like gdm, grub2, most of GNOME, network-manager, and about 200 other packages I've run into now)	20:23
setuid	CosmiChaos, Seems like grub2 is an over-engineered solution to a non-existent problem	20:23
setuid	udev is backwards-incompatible, gdm is stripped to bare-bones (no themes config, no remote config, etc.), grub2 doesn't do half as much as the previous grub, and so on	20:25
kklimonda	setuid: it's called progress	20:25
kklimonda	;)	20:25
setuid	kklimonda, oh, is backwards the new forward now?	20:25
Bookman	Funny, after the error, recover and reboot sound is fine now. Go figure!	20:25
kklimonda	setuid: nod	20:26
* setuid risks a reboot		20:26
kklimonda	setuid: linux is still in a phase when we can safely ignore users and drop backward compatibility	20:26
setuid	s/linux/lucid/	20:27
kklimonda	(as in no one really uses it on desktops anyway)	20:27
kklimonda	setuid: well - most of those changes you have pointed out are upstream ones	20:27
setuid	Great, so now grub fails... I'm at "grub rescue>" prompt. How do I boot the machine?	20:27
setuid	There is no 'help' option, nor '?'	20:27
kklimonda	setuid: what is grub2 missing btw?	20:28
charlie-tca__	type "help"?	20:28
setuid	charlie-tca__, Does nothing, help is an unknown command at this prompt	20:28
DanaG	is the broken one a different system?	20:29
DanaG	I mean, are you typing here while able to type on the non-booting system?	20:29
setuid	DanaG, Talking to me?	20:30
kklimonda	great, can't connect to znc using xchat..	20:31
setuid	Yep, she's fux0red... why-o-why would they put a completely incompatible bootloader on by default	20:32
setuid	And why does lucid have an /etc/debian_version file that says 'sid/unstable' in it?	20:32
setuid	I spotted that last night, which was a bit weird	20:32
yofel	because ubuntu is ultimately based on debian sid/unstable	20:32
yofel	and most packages come from there	20:33
yofel	well, from debian testing for lucid	20:33
setuid	So let's say I boot back to the lucid install cd. How do I install grub (NOT grub2) to the drive?	20:34
yofel	hm, not sure, let's see if the wiki says something	20:35
yofel	!grub32	20:35
yofel	!grub2	20:35
ubottu	GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager in Karmic. For more information and troubleshooting on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2	20:35
setuid	btdt... grub2 is a no-op... I need a proper bootloader	20:35
setuid	Until the showstopper issues in grub2 are addressed, I need grub	20:36
mewshi	hello!	20:41
setuid	I don't understand why grub2 jumps around from tty1 to tty2 when it boots... it starts displaying output on tty1, then goes blank, and displays the rest (including the dm-crypt password prompt) on tty2	20:42
DanaG	what showstopper issues in grub2?	20:43
DanaG	anyway, grub2... you should be able to do this: root (hd0,N) (that is, find the right number)	20:44
kklimonda	setuid: it's not grub probably	20:44
setuid	see above,.. no longer supports any vga options, in /etc/default/grub or any other context, jumps from console to console at boot, blanking out tty1 during the process, ignores colorizing. It's a mess.	20:44
DanaG	and then kernel /boot/vmlinu<tab> (find the right one) root=/dev/sdaN	20:44
DanaG	then initrd /boot/initrd<tab> (again, find the right one)	20:45
setuid	DanaG, I reinstalled from the boot cd to get back up and running	20:45
charlie-tca__	setuid: the vga options worked here when I used them	20:45
setuid	It's a pretty significant step backwards in function	20:45
setuid	charlie-tca__, What syntax did you use?	20:46
setuid	charlie-tca__, and where did you use that syntax?	20:46
kklimonda	setuid: also grub doesn't blank tty1	20:46
charlie-tca__	vga=0x??? right between the " and quiet	20:46
DanaG	http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7837428	20:46
setuid	grub2 seems to have inserted two Ubuntu 9.10 lines in my boot menu, which does not exist anywhere on the system. Where did it put those, and why?	20:46
DanaG	hmm, try doing the gfxpayload thing -- but know that you need to escape the semicolon (put a backslash in front of it).	20:46
setuid	DanaG, I tried that, gfxpayload is ignored	20:47
DanaG	weird... it wasn't ignored when I tried it.	20:47
setuid	I tried using the default, as well as tweaking it by putting in the proper screen res	20:47
DanaG	try gfxpayload=keep	20:47
setuid	I think that's only for splash images, not text mode. I can't use quiet or splash, because I have to enter the dm-crypt password to unlock the drive	20:48
setuid	When using quiet or splash, you never get that prompt	20:48
CosmiChaos	usplash supported that didnt it?	20:49
setuid	No idea, I could never use it	20:49
CosmiChaos	i once remebered entering that encryption code on boot anim	20:49
setuid	usplash and any non-text mode, is not supported when using an nvidia chipset	20:49
DanaG	Not true.	20:49
kklimonda	usplash worked just fine with nvidia	20:49
setuid	it just blanks out the screen, completely...	20:49
DanaG	I've used video=uvesafb before.	20:49
setuid	Had to hard-boot to get it back	20:49
DanaG	try that one. video=uvesafb:mode_option=1024x768-24	20:50
DanaG	and make sure v86d is installed.	20:50
setuid	in what? the kernel line?	20:50
DanaG	yeah.	20:50
DanaG	or	20:50
DanaG	video=uvesafb:mode_option=1024x768-24,blank=1,scroll=ywrap to make it do console-blanking on idle, and scroll a bit faster.	20:51
setuid	Why did it stick two "Ubuntu 9.04 (9.04)" lines in the grub config?	20:51
setuid	Yep, as expected... that video= line is completely ignored	20:52
setuid	Once it gets to the dm-crypt prompt, it flashes tty1, blanks it, and redirects all output to tty2	20:52
setuid	I have to alt-right-arrow to get to tty2, enter the passphrase, to continue booting	20:52
kklimonda	report a bug?	20:53
* setuid takes a photo, since I can't screenshot it		20:53
charlie-tca__	bug has been reported on encrypted drives in lucid	20:53
charlie-tca__	I think it is in the release notes for alpha2	20:53
DanaG	that vt-switching IS rather stupid.	20:54
setuid	the video artifacts are important.. having these billboard-sized fonts at boot time, is painful	20:55
DanaG	I'm using radeon without kms for now, because radeon kms sucks watts like... well... crazy.	20:55
DanaG	sucks watts like ... an elephant? no, that doesn't work.	20:55
DanaG	=þ	20:55
setuid	Looks like I found antoher one	20:56
setuid	X fails to load at boot, because it tries to load X before it loads the nvidia module into the namespace	20:56
setuid	Then I select "Exit to console login", and gdm tries to run X about 8 times, before dying	20:56
DanaG	hmm, is nvidia in initramfs?	20:56
DanaG	oh yeah, failsafe X sucks... especially on KMS.	20:56
setuid	No idea, is it?	20:57
DanaG	It wipes out all the consoles.	20:57
kklimonda	setuid: and? check if there is a bug report filled and if not do it. at this time there are so many bugs you don't have to tell us about every one of them	20:57
DanaG	try adding nvidia to initramfs -- add a line in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules	20:57
kklimonda	great, looks like one of 25 patches applied to xchat breaks something in connection to servers that require password..	20:57
setuid	kklimonda, independent validation that a bug is a bug, and not local misconfiguration helps, before filing a bug that is a red-herring	20:59
setuid	Looks like nvidia is a no-go on lucid... using either the packaged versions or the upstream vendor version	21:12
setuid	ugh	21:12
setuid	It worked last night, and now no longer works	21:12
kklimonda	setuid: wrt upstream version it's a know issue, mentioned in release notes	21:14
setuid	Where are those release notes?	21:14
setuid	I've just tried 7 different nvidia driver versions, from packaged and upstream. The same versions which DO work on karmic and earlier Ubuntu releases.	21:14
kklimonda	http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/alpha2#Known%20issues	21:14
setuid	Looks like it's all broken... lots of people reporting bugs wiht it	21:22
setuid	http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net/msg41563.html	21:22
setuid	That's precisely what I'm seeing, after following the instructions on the wiki page	21:22
=== luis__lopez is now known as luis_lopez
setuid	DanaG, Looks like I got video working, sort of, at 1600x1200, but it's ONLY relevant for the grub boot menu, not the console boot text that follows when selecting one of those menu options	21:33
charlie-tca__	The setting applies only to the boot menu display, not the resolution of the operating system that boots.	21:35
charlie-tca__	https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2	21:35
setuid	So that's NOT equivalent to the vga= line	21:37
DanaG	gfxmode is grub's mode... try adding gfxpayload=keep	21:45
DanaG	setuid: did you install v86d and update the initramfs image?	21:50
setuid	Not yet, trying to work out the nightmare of this page on splashimages... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2	21:51
setuid	Nobody is going to go through the 50 steps required to set a splash image like that	21:51
* DanaG doesn't bother with splash on grub.		21:51
kklimonda	setuid, which doesn't really matter because people shouldn't even see it	21:51
setuid	kklimonda, If anyone wants to set a splash, they need to	21:52
kklimonda	setuid, this small group of people who love tweaking system won't be scared by it	21:52
setuid	I wish I could disable the "blink" in grub2, that's annoying	21:53
setuid	kklimonda, agreed ;)	21:53
setuid	"If it ain't broke.. you didn't configure it enough." -setuid"	21:54
charlie-tca__	setuid: note the section on removing grub2 and reverting to legacy grub	21:54
setuid	DanaG, v86d and initramfs re-generated, I'm sitting at the grub line now... what should I edit, to get a proper 1600x1200+ console font?	21:56
setuid	vga=37D is ignored in the kernel line (which leads me to suspect ALL of the items on that line are ignored)	21:56
DanaG	video=uvesafb:mode_option=1600x1200-24,scroll=ywrap,blank=1	21:57
DanaG	the two things after the commas are optional, though.	21:57
setuid	Right, I've used them before way-back-when in lilo	21:57
DanaG	It's a kernel parameter, not a variable, though.	21:57
DanaG	oh, and make sure vbeinfo shows that resolution anyway.	21:58
setuid	hrm, can't get into grub now	21:59
setuid	shift is ignored	21:59
setuid	Did that change in a recent grub2 update too?	21:59
setuid	I can't believe I've spent 1/2 of my day trying to get grub to behave	22:00
kklimonda	welcome to linux	22:01
setuid	kklimonda, I've been using it since 1995, I'm well aware of the growing pains	22:01
setuid	But when things work, you don't just go breaking them, to introduce "cool" or change existing behavior	22:01
setuid	This fast-boot stuff is going to burn a lot of people	22:02
setuid	I just booted, X failed, because synaptics module wasn't loaded, I asked it to jump to console login, then X loaded, because NOW the synaptics driver loaded in the time it took to display the error dialog about X not loading.	22:02
kklimonda	well, we could just leave things like they were and have an outdated stack	22:02
kklimonda	it was the same with pulseaudio	22:03
charlie-tca__	Still got 4 months to work the issues out of lucid	22:03
setuid	oss audio worked fine, esd, artsd, pulse, etc. are tactical hacks that provide zero value	22:03
setuid	And you can improve the stack, without breaking existing function or provide a legacy migration layer, so existing things continue to work.	22:03
kklimonda	oh come on, don't bring an oss into this discussion	22:04
setuid	Pulling the rug out and telling people to brace themselves for the fall, isn't nice	22:04
DanaG	libnotify-Message: GetCapabilities call failed: Launcher could not run (out of memory)	22:04
setuid	kklimonda, No, the 'oss' (pre-alsa) sound system worked great	22:04
kklimonda	setuid, it didn't	22:04
DanaG	I tried oss4... hard-locked my system.	22:04
DanaG	And had really horrible names for things.	22:04
DanaG	"Front Green"	22:04
DanaG	"Front Pink"	22:04
DanaG	ugh, brightness control isn't working in gnome-stracciatella-session.	22:05
setuid	DanaG, Your video= suggestion was ignored by grub	22:08
DanaG	Umm... how did you edit the thing?	22:09
setuid	The -very first- line of text after hitting Enter on the grub kernel line was the right resolution, then it immediately goes back to 80x25 text	22:09
DanaG	If you edit with 'e', and then press escape, it doesn't keep your changes.	22:09
setuid	DanaG, I put it in the /etc/default/grub file, and ran update-grub. It didn't work when inserting it manually.	22:09
DanaG	hmm, check dmesg for uvesafb	22:10
DanaG	I also added to /etc/modprobe.d/custom.conf: options uvesafb mode_option=1024x768-24 scroll=ywrap blank=1	22:11
DanaG	and added uvesafb to /etc/modules and /etc/initramfs-tools/modules	22:11
setuid	This is weird, I have to let X fail, mouse thorugh the "Exit to console login" graphic, then it starts gdm and X works fine	22:11
setuid	hrm, weird... something is trying to start X before gdm is loaded	22:16
setuid	Any idea how to diagnose what it might be?	22:16
setuid	gdm works fine, once the machine boots and I manually fail out of the X error dialogs	22:16
DanaG	hmm, I'd say, file a bug on that.	22:20
setuid	Yep, X is definitely trying to start before gdm does	22:21
setuid	I've been keeping track, I have about 73 bugs to file on all of these bits	22:25
setuid	I've set /etc/init.d/gdm to 0000 perms, let's see what happens at boot time	22:28
setuid	Confirmed... something other than gdm is starting before gdm, taking up X:0, which causes gdm to fail	22:30
DanaG	hmm, perhaps look in "ps" (or htop) to see what the parent process is?	22:31
setuid	Looks like /etc/init.d/failsafe-x is the problem	22:32
setuid	Testing another reboot after rm'ing that	22:32
setuid	shoot... still doing it	22:34
setuid	odd though, gdm starts 2 times, and gdmopen starts 2 times	22:34
DanaG	for me, failsafe-x has never done anything except cause more problems.	22:35
setuid	I noticed I had gdm and gdm-2.2 installed, so I ripped out gdm, leaving gdm-2.2	22:37
setuid	This should be interesting	22:37
setuid	Yikes... my bug list grows. Pulling out gdm (leaving gdm-2.2 installed), removes the gdm user and control dirs for policykit (/var/lib/gdm), which breaks gdm-2.2 from working.	22:41
setuid_	DanaG, Just stumbled upon this: http://harrison3001.blogspot.com/2009/09/grub-2-graphical-boot-tips-to-set.html	23:05
setuid_	Going to test this now	23:05
setuid	We'll see if this works	23:07
setuid	damn, nope, didn't work	23:07
setuid	When grub2 loads, where is its output/errors/warnings logged?	23:07
setuid	It spits out one line, in the high-res font I'm striving for, then switches to 80x25 resolution and paints over it, something about a line being deprcated and to use gfxpayload=something instead	23:08
DanaG	hmm, do you still have vga= there?	23:11
DanaG	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/416772	23:12
* yofel just remembered bug 416772		23:12
ubottu	Ubuntu bug 416772 in grub2 "[karmic] please add config option for 'set gfxpayload' to /etc/default/grub" [Unknown,Confirmed]	23:12
ubottu	Launchpad bug 416772 in grub2 "[karmic] please add config option for 'set gfxpayload' to /etc/default/grub" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416772	23:12
yofel	heh	23:12
DanaG	NICE CRUISE CONTROL ON THAT BUG REPORT	23:12
DanaG	=þ	23:12
yofel	^^	23:13
BUGabundo	http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/01/why-microsoft-isnt-working-on-silverlight-64-bit.ars	23:14
BUGabundo	FAIL	23:14
BUGabundo	" nobody uses 64-bit browsers.5"	23:14
DanaG	http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41881	23:14
DanaG		23:14
DanaG		23:14
DanaG		23:14
DanaG		23:14
DanaG		23:14
DanaG		23:14
DanaG		23:14
DanaG		23:14
DanaG	Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at arstechnica.com.	23:14
DanaG	ARGH	23:14
DanaG	how the heck did firefox copy and paste all those blank lines?	23:14
BUGabundo	LOL	23:15
setuid	Such a waste of all this precious vertical bandwidth	23:15
yofel	wtf?	23:15
BUGabundo	setuid: ROFL	23:15
BUGabundo	% of 64 *buntu users: about 10%	23:16
yofel	nice... firefox froze opening the 'applications' settings tab o.O	23:17
DanaG	http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41881	23:17
DanaG	try that gfxpayload stuff.	23:17
DanaG	oh, and I had a thought: perhaps the thing resetting framebuffer is vga16fb.	23:18
DanaG	try passing vga16fb.DoNotWant=1 (or any other invalid parameter)... that should make vga16fb bail out instead of loading.	23:18
setuid	I'm closer, but not quite there yet... got high-res fonts now in console, except the whole 1920x1200 screen's text is sitting in the first inch of the screen, at the top	23:18
DanaG	How do you have 1920x1200 framebuffer? What sort of system?	23:18
DanaG	Mine only offers non-widescreen modes.	23:18
setuid	T61p	23:19
setuid	vbeinfo shows it.. 1920x1200-32	23:19
DanaG	My vbe modes only go up to 1600x1200.	23:19
DanaG	Screen is 1920x1200.	23:19
setuid	I'll try 1600x1200... the key is to make sure it's 32bpp though, or switching from X to console and back, will screw up things badly, resulting in a corrupted screen. Seen that before a few thousand times.	23:21
BUGabundo	need a tester: set CPU to Conservative profile, and leave it running for 5 min	23:22
setuid	Nope, same corrupted screen	23:23
BUGabundo	in my case it gets set to performance after a while	23:23
setuid	damn	23:23
yofel	BUGabundo: conservative set, I'll report back	23:27
BUGabundo	thanks yofel	23:27
BUGabundo	FYI Intel C2D 8300 here	23:27
BUGabundo	runnning Lucid 64 bits	23:27
yofel	I set it on a C2D T7300 x64 and Atom N270 x86	23:28
setuid	BUGabundo, In X?	23:28
setuid	BUGabundo, If you're running Firefox with the broken Flash plugin (npviewer.bin), it will skyrocket in CPU and RAM usage, making your governor go to performance	23:28
BUGabundo	setuid: if it would, would do the same in OnDemand	23:30
BUGabundo	now testing powertop to see what's going on	23:31
BUGabundo	60.6% (912.2) [Rescheduling interrupts] <kernel IPI>	23:31
BUGabundo	C2 1.2ms (82.7%) 1200 Mhz 90.1%	23:31
BUGabundo	C0 (cpu running) (17.3%) 2.40 Ghz 7.6%	23:31
BUGabundo	now reseting to Conservative	23:31
setuid	drat... 1600x1200x32 doesn't work either. I don't think any of this was tested.	23:35
setuid	Is this console switching business with dm-crypt only an issue with grub2, or would it be an issue for grub also?	23:36
BUGabundo	oooh I love when I'm trying to debug something and it doesn't happen	23:37
yofel	heh, 'presentation effect' XD	23:38
BUGabundo	you can't want something while its moving? cause watching it changes it specs	23:39
fagan	Hey all I just upgrade tested hardy to lucid and it worked well but im getting this error when I try to insert my usb hard drive http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/358766/	23:39
fagan	Any ideas whats wrong	23:39
yofel	err... let's stay in a relativistic view of the world...	23:40
BUGabundo	fagan: fsck it	23:40
BUGabundo	prob dates related	23:40
fagan	Ah maybe	23:40
* BUGabundo is loving this episode of chuck.... reminds 1st season 1st episode		23:40
fagan	BUGabundo: season 3?	23:41
* fagan restarts and sees if that fixes the problem		23:41
setuid	looks like whatever is in the lucid build of grub2, is preventing the standard methods of setting the console resolution	23:46

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