[00:13] <DanRabbit> coz_: oh, I've never heard of it :po
[05:57] <JesseW> Is Ivanka Majic here?
[06:14] <xumuk> hi, there
[06:15] <JesseW> xumuk: hi?
[06:23] <JesseW> xumuk: can we help you?
[06:25] <xumuk> I just configured XChat and I met the first remembered channel, but thanx)
[06:25] <xumuk> yes, you can) sorry, I was thinking I was on another channel))
[06:26] <JesseW> no worries
[06:27] <xumuk> is there some open source graphic redactor PS like?
[06:27] <xumuk> Gimp, no, thanks)
[06:27] <xumuk> the good one...
[06:28] <JesseW> don't know, sorry
[06:29] <troy_s> Redactor?
[06:29] <xumuk> yes, something like PhotoShop
[06:54] <troy_s> xumuk: You won't find anything quite like photoshop. They are all crippled in one way or another in certain respects.
[06:54] <troy_s> xumuk: What is your issue with GIMP?
[06:56] <xumuk> not so many functions...
[06:57] <troy_s> xumuk: Um... well to be fair, that isn't one of GIMP's shortcomings.
[06:57] <xumuk> and I tried to do some thing I knew in PS and I've got no idea how to do it in Gimp...
[06:57] <troy_s> xumuk: When you say one of the winning entries, I'll confirm it.
[06:57] <troy_s> xumuk: That, I am afraid, is an invalid complaint.
[06:58] <xumuk> yes, it was that I afraid...
[06:58] <troy_s> xumuk: They are different applications so expect them to behave differently. Not only is GIMP a different application, it would also be legally impossible to clone PS.
[06:58] <xumuk> rtfm gimp, no? o_O
[06:58] <troy_s> xumuk: So while GIMP has _some_ shortcomings, the one you mentioned is merely a lack of knowledge on your part.
[06:58] <troy_s> xumuk: Well... or ask. :)
[06:59] <troy_s> xumuk: As I said, I am no GIMP apologist, but not knowing the application isn't quite GIMP's fault.
[07:00] <xumuk> thanx) I'm already go to sleep, but know where to ask... yeah, it isn't GIMP's fault)
[07:00] <xumuk> bb
[07:00] <troy_s> xumuk: If you have issues
[07:00] <troy_s> xumuk: Contact someone - there are more than a few people that might be able to help you.
[07:02] <xumuk> I've got too much tied for now... next time) thanks!
[12:03] <thorwil> vish: hi! may i kick your manual cover with my lynx from the wiki page?
[12:03] <vish> thorwil: i didnt understand? :)
[12:04] <thorwil> vish: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Cover-tw.png
[12:04] <thorwil> vish: may i take that from the page, as i'm editing it right now, anyway?
[12:04] <vish> thorwil: yeah , oh , you dont want it there? ok sure.. but just curious why? ;)
[12:05] <vish> apart from the obvious  , i did it worng ;p
[12:05] <thorwil> vish: it's much weaker than your other 3, makes me cringe and no one else seems to like it
[12:05] <vish> thorwil: lol .. k.. ;)
[12:06] <thorwil> vish: thanks!
[12:06] <vish> np..
[12:18] <thorwil> vish: btw, your first version with wolter's lynx is better because the eyes is roughly on a height with "Manual". on the other version, where it sits lower ... that feels like a drop
[12:19] <vish> thorwil: i totally agree.. but benjamin wants it lower.. so i just put both of them up there ;)
[12:19] <thorwil> vish: try placing both lynx and title lower, then
[12:20] <vish> thorwil: also , most of the articles use the first version too..
[12:20] <vish> hmm.. then the space above seems empty.. :(
[12:20] <vish> thorwil: will give it a shot , i havent looked at the manual title for a while
[12:22] <thorwil> vish: you could try to remove the top right corner thing and add the version number after the ubuntu logotype
[12:22] <vish> thorwil: also , now people are saying that the name "Ubuntu manual" isnt decided to be the final version! o.0
[12:23] <vish> they might change the name...
[12:23] <thorwil> vish: heh, everyone of us who added a design proposal is an idiot ;)
[12:23] <vish> surely   :D...  not sure what's going on .. with all the rifts
[12:28] <thorwil> the wiki and just the presence of title page proposals mislead me to think the project would be more mature
[12:30] <vish> thorwil: yeah... i didnt really like the way the doc replies were handled :(    which kinda felt too silly
[16:32] <dashua> If anyone is running murrine v0.91.0 and would like to test an updated Dust - > bzr branch lp:~dashua/dusttheme/MurrinaDust . I have  Human, Hanso, and Albatross to push as well.  Any suggestions, let me know?
[16:32] <dashua> Thx
[16:45] <Equiet> dashua: Can you post a screenshot?
[16:49] <kwwii> dashua: hey, I had kenvandine put the new murrin in a ppa for those who wish to test it out
[16:50] <kwwii> dashua: I think we'll be switching to the new version in karmic, not 100% sure yet though
[16:50]  * kwwii cooks dinner
[16:53] <dashua> kwwii, Cool.  not messing too much with metacity themes due to the client side decorations in Lucid
[16:53] <dashua> I'll get them ready for review
[16:53] <dashua> Bbl
[16:57] <dashua> Equiet, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/38689/screenshot_001_3rUVIZ.png
[17:22] <Equiet> dashua: In Applications menu, the selection should have only top and bottom border.
[17:24] <Equiet> I permanently don't understand, why uselected tabs are more contrast to the background.
[17:25] <Equiet> Scrollbars are too rounded.
[17:27] <Equiet> And for GtkCombo, the arrow doesn't fit there.
[17:29] <Equiet> And for "Applications" as selected item I would use brighter color instead of darker gradient.
[17:54] <troy_s> dashua: Only thing I'd probably notice on an otherwise pretty solid attempt is that the overarching tones in the interface are myriad. I see an orangey brown for the selected item in Applications, a muddy taupe in the unselected tabs, a chocolate in the progress sliders, a middle grey value in the scrollbar pills and gripper, and then the splash of standing out colour in the icons top left.
[17:55] <troy_s> dashua: The arrows in the groupbox are probably symptomatic of this. I wonder if you can generate a palette and sprinkle it around those various elements in such a way that it doesn't feel like clumps of curry that aren't properly mixed into the recipe.
[17:56] <troy_s> dashua: I don't know if you have enough diversity there for a triad, but you almost certainly have enough for a compliment. http://colorschemedesigner.com/
[17:57] <troy_s> dashua: It's all random opinion until you solidly sum up your goal and audience though. IF your goal is a sort of middle aged elegance ala Westernized thinking (as opposed to say, Asian or African art context) _maybe_ pushing it further along with that goal will help you cite some concrete changes.
[19:22] <dashua> troy_s, Thanks for the input. I'll definitely use that colorschemedesigner.  I've been using Agave for my Triads.
[19:22] <troy_s> dashua: Agave isn't quite as sophisticated as Colorscheme
[19:22] <troy_s> dashua: You can adjust your degrees and values etc.
[19:23] <dashua> Yeah, I see that.
[19:23] <dashua> This is nice
[19:23] <troy_s> dashua: And the version 2 you could download for local use. I think you can do it with 3 as well.
[19:24] <dashua> Awesome.  Agave seems very basic compared to this.
[19:24] <troy_s> dashua: Why did you choose to bold the window title / application menu?
[19:24] <troy_s> dashua: (And the clock for that matter)
[19:24] <dashua> Just a preference of mine while using Droid Sans fonts.  That is really the only time it looks half decent.
[19:25] <dashua> I can easily;y revert it back.
[19:25] <troy_s> dashua: Ok... I guess the follow up, what decision process did you use to arrive at Droid Sans?
[19:27] <dashua> Other than a personal preference on my eyes, no real process.
[19:27] <dashua> Have any suggestions on a better font?
[19:27] <troy_s> dashua: Give it a thought. At least the decision is personal - that's better than some fictitious reasoning.
[19:27] <troy_s> dashua: Better is relative. ;)
[19:28] <dashua> Very true.  There was another group of fonts kwwii posted a while back that were quite nice.
[19:28] <troy_s> dashua: What I was hoping you'd take from the above comments is that it is _all_ relative and subjective if you choose to randomly poll for evaluation. That isn't art/design nor should it be. The opinions and comments are relevant if and only if you manage to keep a point of perspective.
[19:28] <dashua> Just can't remember the name. =/
[19:29] <troy_s> dashua: So your first question might be something like 'What is the overall tone you are aiming at?'
[19:30] <troy_s> dashua: ?
[19:30] <dashua> Harmony from Xsplash - > GDM > Desktop
[19:31] <troy_s> dashua: That still isn't a tone. A tone is the overall state - the sum 'presence' of the parts. Is it rock and roll? Is it classical music? Is it spicy hot sexy? Is it sophisticated avant garde? Etc.
[19:31] <dashua> Not that is a requirement.  Continuity wise is flows better.
[19:32] <troy_s> dashua: Not disagreeing with you, but you might do yourself well to have a clear goal and set of constraints. Questions such as 'What typeface?' are _massive_ and _sweeping_ without some given sets of constraints. So by having those design constraints clear, some questions are self answering and far more evident than without them.
[19:34] <troy_s> dashua: Follow me?
[19:34] <dashua> troy_s, Gotcha.  This is basically just a refresh of the older Dust theme
[19:35] <troy_s> dashua: Sure... so throw some mud at the wall and see if it sticks. Figure out what it is not if you can't figure out what the tone _is_.
[19:35] <dashua> I have not specified specific goals and I see your point opinions are subjective without a clear focus.
[19:36] <troy_s> dashua: That would be part of the utter complexity of answering a question or working towards an end point - if you don't have a problem / question / destination, you are basically asking yourself "Ok... How do I get there?"
[19:36] <dashua> Exactly
[19:36] <troy_s> dashua: While it may have seemed a rather flakey question at the onset, I'd hope you can see how fundamentally critical that question is now.
[19:37] <dashua> troy_s, Aye.  Thx.
[19:39] <troy_s> dashua: Just give yourself a loose couple of parameters - "What is the emotional tone I'm aiming for with this?" and "Whom am I seeking to communicate that to?". Elegant, for example, has radically different manifestations in Korea to say, Istanbul. Even worse, your great grandmother's concept of elegance is a far cry from your father's.
[19:39] <dashua> For a tone, I would describe it as more subtle than the original with being overly glaring in your face.
[19:39] <troy_s> dashua: The following questions that pop up and the creative decisions are somewhat self-evident or at the very least, _far_ easier to answer.
[19:40] <troy_s> dashua: Subtle and In-You-Face still aren't a tone. ;)
[19:41] <troy_s> dashua: Your defining aesthetic choice with that screenshot is the wallpaper selection - wood texture. Why did you pick that? The answer might help you define the tonal context.
[19:43] <dashua> I see.  Contrast was one the main reasons.
[19:44] <troy_s> dashua: LOL. Worried about contrast?
[19:44] <dashua> The theme has a completely different look/feel on a darker background.
[19:45] <troy_s> dashua: Of course it does. That's the point. But you are falling into the classic 'design-by-amoeba' trap that is prevalent in our culture. You are driving on your trip without having any idea what direction or destination or reason you are driving there. From that, problems pop up that have no solutions.
[19:47] <dashua> I definitely see your point.  I do not believe  the artistic training to define such goals, but I'll give it a shot ;)
[19:47] <dashua> I have *
[19:49] <troy_s> dashua: Do it if only to help answer questions for yourself. The two questions above would go a long way to answering them for yourself.
[19:50] <troy_s> dashua: Once you realize how nebulous and subjective it all dissolves down into, you will probably have an epiphany on how those goals are the very bare minimum before you push a pixel. If you don't, you open up a world of bikeshedding. Bikeshedding is a byproduct of not focusing on WHO it is for and WHAT it is doing.
[19:52] <dashua> Very true.  You end end with a hodgepodge of ideas grouped together as one.
[19:53] <troy_s> dashua: Bingo.
[19:53] <troy_s> dashua: Or worse, you chase after competing goals.
[19:54] <troy_s> dashua: You can't be Classical Music and Punk Rock simultaneously.
[19:55] <dashua> I'm checking out your blog post http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2010/01/six-ubuntu-oopsies-and-possible-quick.html for some insight.
[19:56] <dashua> troy_s, Yes.
[19:57] <troy_s> dashua: Well you would be better off reading someone with a bit of a clue.
[19:57] <troy_s> dashua: Rather than fritter away your time reading dribblings.
[19:59] <dashua> This is for an update to a community submission, no idea where the official direction is going.
[19:59] <dashua> troy_s, Alright, although some good points are made.
[19:59] <troy_s> dashua: If you answer those two questions above, you can probably at least have some clue on where to turn in the forest.
[20:00] <troy_s> dashua: But you can probably already see that.
[20:00] <dashua> I do. :)