[08:32] <fagan> morning
[08:44] <davmor2> ara thanks for sorting the intro :)
[08:45] <davmor2> morning by the way
[08:46] <ara> good morning fagan, davmor2
[09:37] <davmor2> ara: have you had a play with gnome-shell at all?
[09:41] <fagan> davmor2: Ive been playing with it for a year now
[09:41] <fagan> And ive had regular crashes since :)
[09:44] <fagan> I dont think ive ever gotten a full days use without it crashing and reverting back to panel
[09:47] <ara> davmor2, no, I have seen it, but I haven't played with it
[09:48] <fagan> davmor2: have you been trying it?
[09:49]  * fagan thinks it really needs some debugging tools built in
[10:09] <davmor2> fagan: if you run gnome-shell -r from a terminal and watch you'll see it has :)
[10:11] <davmor2> ara: it has some nice features and if they do what they say they will and integrate mago into it, it will make it a damn sight easier to drop an automated test in for it :)
[10:55] <ara> mvo, ping
[10:55] <mvo> hey ara
[10:56] <ara> mvo, hey michael, just one quick question, I have this empatht's version status for Lucid:
[10:56] <ara> ara@sushirider:~$ apt-cache policy empathy
[10:56] <ara> empathy:
[10:56] <ara>   Installed: 2.28.1.1-0ubuntu1
[10:56] <ara>   Candidate: 2.29.5.1-1ubuntu1
[10:56] <ara>   Version table:
[10:56] <ara>      2.29.5.1-1ubuntu1 0
[10:56] <ara>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com lucid/main Packages
[10:56] <ara>  *** 2.28.1.1-0ubuntu1 0
[10:56] <ara>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[10:56] <ara> but in Update manager, empathy is always greyed out
[10:57] <ara> do you know why?
[10:57] <mvo> ara: what is the output of "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true" ?
[10:58] <mvo> its probably trying to install something that is not available or that requires removal of something, but the output should give a hint
[10:58] <ara> Investigating empathy
[10:58] <ara> Package empathy has broken Depends on empathy-common
[10:58] <ara>   Considering empathy-common 2 as a solution to empathy 0
[10:58] <ara>   Holding Back empathy rather than change empathy-common
[10:58] <ara> Investigating nautilus-sendto-empathy
[10:58] <ara> Package nautilus-sendto-empathy has broken Depends on empathy-common
[10:58] <ara>   Considering empathy-common 2 as a solution to nautilus-sendto-empathy 0
[10:58] <ara>   Holding Back nautilus-sendto-empathy rather than change empathy-common
[10:58] <ara>  Try to Re-Instate empathy
[10:58] <ara> Done
[10:58] <ara> Done
[10:58] <ara> The following packages have been kept back:
[10:58] <ara>   empathy
[11:00] <mvo> what is the output of apt-cache policy empathy-common nautilus-sendto-empathy ?
[11:09] <mvo> ara: I'm off to lunch, but we can debug this further when I'm back
[11:09] <ara> mvo, OK
[11:10] <ara> mvo,  enjoy your meal
[11:12] <mvo> thanks
[11:13] <fagan> davmor2: ah thats better
[11:14] <fagan> Now ill be able to see the crash
[11:14] <fagan> We should look into getting mago into shell now when its needed for some serious testing
[11:14] <davmor2> fagan: I'm amazed at how much it logs
[11:15] <davmor2> fagan: they are already integrating it
[11:15] <fagan> davmor2: I suppose they need it for debugging crashes
[11:15] <fagan> Have you tried the looking glass?
[11:15] <fagan> alt+f2 and type lg
[11:16] <fagan> it lets you exend it and debug the little stuff
[11:22] <fagan> Oh it doesnt have a close button you have to press esc to quit
[11:29] <davmor2> I think of gnome-shell in the same way as I do empathy.  It's a good idea with some major faults,  however if it gets traction and users and developers get behind it it will shoot forward with masses of bug fixes in every release and lots of finishing touches to resolve issues that are there
[11:33] <fagan> davmor2: true
[11:33] <fagan> davmor2: I think when its adopted by default the first 2 releases will be ok but have lots and lots of bugs
[11:34] <fagan> Then after that it should be fine
[11:34] <fagan> the problem is the 2 releases in the mean time
[11:35] <fagan> good thing the lts is the one the most impressionable users use
[11:35] <davmor2> fagan: to be fair I think a lot of the issues are being ironed out at the moment,  I know the current version has a load of features not available in the version in karmic
[11:36] <fagan> davmor2: I still think its too hard for users to open most programs
[11:36] <fagan> and I dont think the notifications are as good as notify-osd
[11:37] <fagan> But their application indicators mockups are awesome
[11:37] <davmor2> fagan: no but it is better than the current gnome ones.
[11:37] <fagan> true
[11:38] <fagan> it is better than the old ones that were just glorified tooltips
[12:24] <ara> mvo, let me know when you're back from lunch
[12:24] <mvo> ara: I'm back
[12:25] <ara> mvo, so, answer to your last question
[12:25] <ara> ara@sushirider:~$ apt-cache policy empathy-common nautilus-sendto-empathy
[12:25] <ara> empathy-common:
[12:25] <ara>   Installed: (none)
[12:25] <ara>   Candidate: 2.29.5.1-1ubuntu1
[12:25] <ara>   Version table:
[12:25] <ara>      2.29.5.1-1ubuntu1 0
[12:25] <ara>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com lucid/main Packages
[12:25] <ara> nautilus-sendto-empathy:
[12:25] <ara>   Installed: (none)
[12:25] <ara>   Candidate: 2.29.5.1-1ubuntu1
[12:25] <ara>   Version table:
[12:25] <ara>      2.29.5.1-1ubuntu1 0
[12:25] <ara>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com lucid/main Packages
[12:38] <mvo> ara: hm, odd. let me try to re-create that in a chroot
[12:38] <ara> mvo, thanks
[13:43] <ara> mvo, I want to create an easy checklist of things to check during an upgrade, to use it in the Global Jam (and general community testing)
[13:43] <ara> mvo, I  have started with some ideas at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UpgradeChecklist
[13:43] <ara> mvo, it would be great if you could have a look
[13:46] <mvo> ara: on the phone right now, I have a look afterwards
[13:46] <ara> mvo, no worries, it is not urgent
[13:48]  * ara -> lunch
[14:45] <davmor2> morning cr3
[14:45] <davmor2> fader|away: sciving of again
[14:45] <cr3> davmor2: hey dude
[14:57] <cr3> davmor2: apparently, it's Martin Luther King day today
[14:58] <davmor2> cr3: so sciving off again then ;)
[15:26] <davmor3> Yay nick swap works
[15:34] <davmor2> pedro_: the empathy fix was a ! missing
[15:36] <davmor2> I reported it faulty on #empathy gat a report in lp copy pasted it to gnome.bugzilla and by the time I'd done that they had fixed it :)
[15:36] <pedro_> davmor3, yup that was it :-)
[15:36] <pedro_> heh
[17:05] <fagan> Hmmmmm
[17:06] <charlie-tca__> huh
[17:06] <fagan> off topic for a sec anyone know anything about database theory
[17:07] <fagan> (Relational,Object,Object-relational)
[17:09] <fagan> Damn gtg
[19:22] <iwohxohti> What are ways to get notification when a Beta ISO image is released?
[19:24] <charlie-tca__> mailing list, irc channels
[19:25] <charlie-tca__> subscribe to planet ubuntu blog
[19:26] <charlie-tca__> subscribe to ubuntu.com newsfeed
[20:23] <cr3> alexmoldovan: hey dude, here's the channel where all the cool folks hang out
[20:24] <cr3> alexmoldovan: I just msg'ed you the book dive into python, a recommendation of davmor
[20:24] <alexmoldovan> thanks
[20:24] <cr3> alexmoldovan: he's currently away right now, because it's getting pretty late the other side of the pond, but I'd recommend you have a chat with him tomorrow morning
[21:41] <fagan> just got around to submitting my iso test result
[21:41] <fagan> alls good except nvidia for me
[21:42] <fagan> that reminds me to check on that
[21:56] <fagan> So im going to upgrade test in 10 minutes ish
[21:57] <fagan> any tests I should do
[21:57] <fagan> Damn fader|away isnt around
[21:57] <fagan> I was going to offer to do some regression testing
[21:58] <fagan> I suppose its a little late in the day to be asking
[21:58]  * fagan mailing lists the questions