/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/01/19/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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dholbachpopey, pleia2, technoviking, nixternal: around?10:58
popeyyup11:00
dholbachmako is not on freenode, or he is somebody else or something and sabdfl can't make it, mdke probably neither11:01
dholbachI just had a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda and it seems that every topic is a 21 UTC topic11:01
dholbachI realise that mdke's and my item has been on it for a very long time, so I'll try to take if off of there (as I normally can't make the 21 UTC times) and try to figure out something via email11:02
popeyok11:03
dholbachEmmet's item depends on the DMB election, so it'll need to wait a bit until the DMB election was closed11:03
popeyfastest meeting ever11:03
dholbachdo you have anything that needs to be discussed?11:03
dholbachor does anybody else have anything?11:03
popeyi dont11:03
dholbachlet's wait a few ticks then to see if anybody else does :)11:04
dholbachalrightie... I'll write something quick up for the team report then11:05
czajkowskidoes this meeting time ever work ?11:05
dholbachczajkowski: usually it does :)11:05
czajkowskihmm ok11:05
dholbachit's just that we didn't have much to discuss this time :)11:05
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persiaUm, my item was covered in the last meeting, and passed by a majority.  Sorry to not remove it from the agenda for this time.12:17
NCommander#startmeeting13:00
MootBotMeeting started at 07:00. The chair is NCommander.13:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]13:00
* JamieBen1ett waves13:00
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NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010011913:00
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010011913:00
* ogra coughs13:00
* GrueMaster opens a weary eye.13:00
NCommander[link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid/report.html13:01
MootBotLINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid/report.html13:01
* cooloney1 waves13:01
NCommander[topic] Action Item review13:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Item review13:01
asachi13:01
NCommander[topic] asac, ogra, persia to make sure .32 backporting for imx51 kernels is documented somewhere (c/o).13:01
MootBotNew Topic:  asac, ogra, persia to make sure .32 backporting for imx51 kernels is documented somewhere (c/o).13:01
persiaIt's documented somewhere.  It's just not very complete.13:01
asacok13:01
persiahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100112/FSLKernelBackport13:01
NCommanderpersia, do we need a c/o on this one?13:02
cooloney1yeah, i updated some on it13:02
persiaNeeds more input from the people wo haven't finished (JamieBennet, cooloney)13:02
* JamieBennett got sidetracked this week13:02
persiaNCommander: Better would be to have specific action for JamieBennet on bootspeed (or reassign)13:02
JamieBennettleave it with me13:02
asaci will ping dtchen again13:02
NCommander[action] JamieBennett to complete imx51 backportng documentation on bootspeed.13:03
MootBotACTION received:  JamieBennett to complete imx51 backportng documentation on bootspeed.13:03
NCommander[topic] [topic] asac to discuss with dmart how to best tackle the list and assign packages to team members etc.13:03
MootBotNew Topic:  [topic] asac to discuss with dmart how to best tackle the list and assign packages to team members etc.13:03
persiacooloney1: Are there really only two patches of interest in kernel/ubuntu?13:03
asacyes, we started to go through the list13:03
cooloney1persia: actually, i am not sure about the requirement.13:03
asacadded more variables for prioritization (e.g. number of rdepends)13:03
asacand section13:03
asacso thats done13:03
asacits work in progress13:03
asacwe will assign bugs for the important ones etc.13:03
cooloney1just got that requests from ogra before, than looked at those feature and backported and built the kernel13:04
NCommanderasac, do we need any action items for actually opening the bugs?13:04
ogracooloney1, requirement is that most or all HW i plug into my laptop should work the same way on my babbage13:04
asacno13:04
asacthats part of the thumb2 spec imo13:04
asacalready covered13:04
NCommander[topic] dmart to investigate test procedures at ATM which may work on dove13:04
MootBotNew Topic:  dmart to investigate test procedures at ATM which may work on dove13:04
ogracooloney1, and that features we develop in-house should not be broken due to linux-imx being behind13:05
asacdmart: did you find anything=13:05
asac?13:05
asacis that actually still relevant?13:05
dmartUnfortunately, I didn't come up with much useful.  Most of our tests are hardware-level, and can't be used on real silicon.13:05
asacyeah13:05
dmartRunning things like the GCC bootstrap / testsuite seems a good idea if not done already13:06
dmartWas there any progress on that?13:06
NCommanderdmart, negative, board is too unstable to even get that far13:06
asacwho had that item?13:06
asacme?13:06
cooloney1ogra: heh, that needs go through all the .32 kernel patches, a hugh task13:06
asacdmart: or doko ?13:06
NCommander[topic] ericm, NCommander, GrueMaster to work on dove kernel debugging13:06
persiacooloney1: Yep.13:06
MootBotNew Topic:  ericm, NCommander, GrueMaster to work on dove kernel debugging13:06
ogracooloney1, nah, not *all* ... focus should be on in-hoouse development we do (apparmor, aufs ... and kernel/ubuntu )13:07
ericmseems I joined the right moment13:07
asachi ericm13:07
GrueMasterNot much I could do, as once the system locks, nothing is logged.13:07
NCommanderericm, indeed :-)13:07
NCommanderSo, based on conversations with Marvell, we have an actual silicon bug, not a kernel bug.13:07
dmartasac: test / boostrap wasn't a formal action.  I can't do it because I don't have the board though ;)13:07
ericmwell, here are some updates13:07
cooloney1ogra: ok, got you, will go through all our Ubuntu lucid .32 master kernel patches13:07
asacdmart: ok lets talk afterwards so i understand what this involves13:07
dmartOK13:08
ericmI was in Marvell Shanghai office and helped them test a little bit on their X0 board13:08
dmartFor my understanding, is this purely a kernel issue, or userspace? (or both?)13:08
ericmso far so good, no system freeze issue (once ever been observed though not sure if it's the same symptom as in Y1)13:08
asacericm: could you reproduce the issue in front of them with YX?13:09
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asacY113:09
ericmyet gnome-panel still respawns and ubiquity failed when partitioning13:09
ograor Y013:09
ericmasac, yes they know the issues13:09
ograericm, thats a general bug (ubiquity)13:09
NCommanderericm, the ubiquity fails with partitioning is a code bug, not a thumb2 bug :-)13:09
ericmogra, well I guess this doesn't happen on imx51?13:10
ograit does apparently13:10
dmartIt does :(13:10
asacericm: ok. what about the emulation front. do they know which instructions trigger this?13:10
ograi havent seen it, but i didnt test with manual partitioning13:10
ericmbut gnome-panel also respawns again and again on imx51?13:10
asacno13:10
ograafaik it even happened on x8613:10
asacfor me it feels related13:10
ograthe panel issue seems related, yes13:10
ograpartitioning doesnt13:11
asacright13:11
ericmasac, what you mean by emulation front and instructions trigger this?13:11
NCommander[action] eric and NCommander to investigate what causes the gnome-panel crash/restart cycle13:11
MootBotACTION received:  eric and NCommander to investigate what causes the gnome-panel crash/restart cycle13:11
asacericm: i thought we think that some thumb2 instruction triggers this13:12
asacdo we know which one13:12
asac?13:12
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ericmasac, ah yes - it's VLDR13:13
ericmand only when VLDR in thumb2 mode13:13
ericmit's actually not a thumb2 instruction, but a VFP register load instruction13:13
dmartIs there any bug report or other info I could look at?13:13
ericmbut if that instruction happens in thumb2 mode, incorrect alignment fault happens13:13
NCommanderericm, can't we use the kernel to trap and rewrite the thumb2 instruction so we shift back to ARM mode during the VFP register load?13:13
ericmNCommander, they already provided the workaround and was merged in karmic, otherwise will be overwhelmed in alignment faults error messages13:14
asacso we can pull that workaround?13:14
ericmNCommander, and the workaround works almost same as you mentioned13:14
NCommanderericm, if the workaround is in karmic, then why do we still see such broken behavior? We merged previous thumb2 patches which helped13:15
dmartMight this be connected with the other instability?13:15
asacericm: ?13:15
asacprobably13:15
asac(instability)13:15
ericmI'll say the patch doesn't work all the time13:15
asacericm: my question is: qhy isnt that workaround in karmic13:15
ograyou mean lucid13:15
ericmasac, it's already in karmic-proposed13:15
asacyeah13:15
asacsorry13:15
asaclucid13:15
ericmit's there13:16
ograbut its not sufficient apparently13:16
ericmogra, exactly13:16
NCommanderogra, likely another instruction or two has issues13:16
ograright13:16
asacthats what you say NCommander  .... ericm didnt say that13:16
asache said tits just that instruction13:17
ericmNCommander, either another instruction or the workaround doesn't solve the issue in some corner cases13:17
ericmyet I guess the latter is more likely13:17
asacok. how serios is this worked on at marvell side?13:17
ericmsince I don't see system freezing on X0 (once - but not confirmed it's related to this)13:17
asacdo we need to elevate priority on their side?13:17
asacwould that help?13:17
NCommanderericm, try and build GCC and other large packages as a stability test on X013:18
ericmasac, they are already aware of the issues - and provide some suggestions as could be seen from the mails I get you CC'ed13:18
ericmbut nothing really made progress13:18
asacok. just want to understand if we need to ensure that this gets top priority for them.13:19
asacbut lets talk after meeting13:19
ericmby now, I guess we need to push Marvell to provide some more X0 boards to us13:19
NCommander[action] asac, ericm, and NCommander to talk about Thumb2 issues after the meeting and report back13:20
MootBotACTION received:  asac, ericm, and NCommander to talk about Thumb2 issues after the meeting and report back13:20
asacericm: our primary objective would be to get it worked around in X113:20
asacY113:20
asacor 013:20
ericmasac, I agree we need to make sure they know this as top priority13:20
NCommander[topic] ogra to care for seed changes to get oo.o off the image13:20
MootBotNew Topic:  ogra to care for seed changes to get oo.o off the image13:20
asacericm: right13:20
ograNCommander, wasnt needed13:20
asacthat turned out to be a non-issue13:20
NCommandercool13:20
NCommander[topic] Standing Items13:21
MootBotNew Topic:  Standing Items13:21
asacoh13:21
asacwait13:21
asacthat url is wrong now13:21
asac[LINK] http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html13:21
MootBotLINK received:  http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html13:21
asacthats the new one13:21
asacthe trend line will be set to 14513:21
NCommanderasac, thanks13:21
* asac updates13:21
asacwiki13:21
ograshriek13:21
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)13:21
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)13:21
asacNCommander: sop ;)13:22
asacstop13:22
asacso13:22
cooloney1i got a new fsl bsp from ogra13:22
asacthe work items seems quiet a lot13:22
cooloney1that introduces 30+ kernel patches.13:22
asaci would reall like to see everyone going through it and checking the count of workitems and see if there are things that are reall off for alpha-313:22
* ogra hands asac two y's13:23
asacNCommander: can you please wait before moving on in general?13:23
NCommanderasac, sorry13:23
asacyou never ask if a topic was done13:23
asacdoesnt matter now ;)13:23
cooloney1asac: yeah, i stopped, heh13:23
asacso move on. just include that prominently in the meeting notes13:24
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)13:24
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)13:24
ograasac, what are canonical-mobile workitems ?13:24
asacogra: thats a pool of items anyone can claim ;)13:24
asacteam specs ;)13:24
asacyou can claim items by adding [ogra] before them13:25
ogragiven the amount of personal items we already all have i think its unlikely anyone would do that13:25
asacnot sure that applies for everyone13:25
ograyeah, probably not13:25
JamieBennettI suppose if no-one claims them asac can distribute them ;)13:26
NCommanderheh13:26
asacyeah13:26
ograyes, but we should set a deadline for that13:26
asacanyway. you can also pick such items if you are blocked or something13:26
ograelse they will likely just be lost13:26
ograand make us look bad13:26
asacthe deadline is the milestone13:27
NCommanderso are we done with the burndown charts?13:27
asacthe items there will not make us look bad if all other items are done :)13:27
* ogra is13:27
asacNCommander: why? that url has a burndown too13:27
asachttp://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html13:27
MootBotLINK received:  http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html13:27
ograwell, they add to the overall statistic :)13:27
asachttp://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-alpha-3.html13:28
NCommanderasac, I know.13:28
MootBotLINK received:  http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-lucid-alpha-3.html13:28
asacok13:28
asacyes, that topic is over i hope13:28
NCommanderericm, cooloney1 anything else you want to bring up on the topic of the ARM kernels?13:28
asacif anyone has something we can move that to AOB13:28
cooloney1NCommander: yeah13:28
cooloney1continue my words.13:28
asacok lets focus on kernel ;)13:28
ericmasac, nothing from my side13:29
cooloney1i already tested the Alpha2 kernel + 30+ new kernel patch13:29
cooloney1it works fine.13:29
ograthe existing patches didnt change in the new BSP ?13:29
cooloney1and for the NEON issue, I provided 2 solution kernels13:29
asacwhat do such tests involve? are you running a full image?13:29
cooloney1asac: i just build the kernel and replace it on my board13:30
cooloney1installed the kernel on my board13:30
ograthe package i guess ?13:30
asacok13:30
cooloney1and will post the package to you guys to test13:30
asaccurious about the NEON things ;)13:30
ograyeah13:30
asacwhat approaches?13:30
cooloney1yeah, NEON things, i provided 2 packages13:30
cooloney11 disable NEON defaultly13:31
cooloney12 a kernel side dynamic checking13:31
cooloney1i think dmart tested all of them on bb2.513:31
dmartcooloney1, is that the patch you worked on last week?  I tested on babbage 2.0, bug I think ogra or someone had a problem on 2.5?13:31
ograwehat made me curious is the different revisions we see in /proc/cpuinfo13:31
cooloney1but as we discussed before, method 2 might not be very safe for all the solution13:32
ogradmart, i didnt test that kernel yet13:32
ogramust be someone else13:32
ogra(likely plars)13:32
dmarthmmm13:32
cooloney1yeah, JamieBennett tested that ,13:32
ograah13:32
asaccooloney1: what does t method 2 base the decision to enable thumb on?13:32
dmartogra, I think you're right13:32
cooloney1but from JamieBennett's cpuinfo, i was confused13:32
JamieBennettyes but revision numbers seem to be different from expected13:32
ograyes, thats what i meant above13:32
cooloney1the cpuinfo of his JamieBennett's BB3 is the same as my BB2.513:32
ograand mine seems totally different from all of them13:33
ogra(i noted mine in the bug)13:33
cooloney1ogra: yeah, i have no idea about that13:33
dmartcooloney1, ugh :P13:33
dmartThat's a problem...13:33
ogracant the kernel find out about that on a different (lower) level ?13:34
cooloney1ogra: yeah i was told bb3 should be 5113013:34
dmartLook at the implementation of the BSP's "get revision" function?13:34
* ericm wonders what is 51130 ...13:34
cooloney1ericm: the revision of the chip13:35
cooloney1ericm: sorry, the board,13:35
asacso we probably cannot detect reliably if NEON is stable enough?13:35
ogralooking at the different outputs it seems the last two numbers are what counts13:35
dmartMaybe not... I have a conf call with David Mandala later today about what the high-level strategy should be for CONFIG_NEON in general13:35
ograbut that still doesnt explain why JamieBennett's ends in 2013:35
cooloney1dmart: yeah, agree. need to discuss that13:35
cooloney1asac and ogra, what's you guys suggestion?13:36
cooloney1method 1 disable NEON for all13:36
ograwell, if there is another way to determine the revision, we should go for that one13:36
cooloney1or method 2 dynamic check that13:36
ograif not, drop NEON for now if possible13:36
ogracpuinfo surely doesnt seem reliable enough13:37
asacdynamic check if we can do it reliably13:37
asacotherwise NO13:37
ogra++13:37
cooloney1ogra and asac, understand.13:37
cooloney1agree.13:37
JamieBennettI can double check everything after the meeting with cooloney113:38
NCommanderIs that everything on the imx51 kernel to talk about here?13:38
cooloney1please add me an action about 'ping fsl for more reliable chip rev checking method'13:38
cooloney1one more thing is i am working on suspend/resume13:38
cooloney1and pinged fsl about suspend, they did not reply yet13:38
asacNCommander: action please.13:38
NCommander[action] cooloney1 to ping fsl for more reliable chip rev checking method13:38
MootBotACTION received:  cooloney1 to ping fsl for more reliable chip rev checking method13:38
ografor me in former tests suspend worked13:39
NCommander[action] cooloney1 to ping fsl about suspend13:39
MootBotACTION received:  cooloney1 to ping fsl about suspend13:39
cooloney1is that possible davidm to help that.13:39
NCommanderogra, what action do you need?13:39
ogracooloney1, we can bring it up in the weekly call13:39
ograNCommander, none13:39
cooloney1NCommander: sorry, i ping fsl about suspend before. heh13:39
NCommanderMay I move on?13:39
cooloney1ogra: thanks a lot13:39
cooloney1yeah,13:39
asacyes. thanks ericm and cooloney113:39
NCommander[topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)13:39
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)13:39
ogracooloney1, my issue was that i couldnt find a methid to wake it up13:39
cooloney1not problem asac13:40
cooloney1ogra: ok, your board is different with magic rev? ;))13:40
ograwell, its a 2.5 :)13:40
NCommanderdyfet, JamieBennett, ping?13:41
ograanyway, thats details we can discuss out of meeting13:41
JamieBennettI have nothing to report on package issues13:41
JamieBennettalthough I see the FTBFS list has some important packages failing13:41
NCommanderJamieBennett, indeed, we'll get there in a moment :_)13:41
JamieBennettHaven't looked into them though13:41
NCommanderJamieBennett, can I move on?13:41
JamieBennettyes from me13:42
NCommander[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)13:42
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)13:42
NCommanderas JamieBennett said, we do have a few FTBFS'es that need to be resolved (evolution being the big one my list this morning)13:42
ogralooks like a give back to me13:42
NCommanderOver all, there is a general trend of improvement on this, so we're goingthe right way13:42
NCommanderogra, cool (I hadn't looked at the log yet)13:42
ograi havent looked either13:43
ograbut evo, ampathy and evo-couchdb are ususally give back candidates13:43
asacNCommander: can you help dyfet a bit on his ftbfs'es?13:43
NCommanderasac, sure13:43
asaci would hope that you could work together in a pair-programming approahc13:43
ograthey rely on arch all packages13:43
NCommanderasac, pair-programming?13:43
asac... usually you get same or better throughput than doing alone13:43
dyfetI am waiting on one ftbfs to be updated in debian, but I will coordinate this week on ftbfs with NCommander to get high priority ones done13:43
asacNCommander: yes, try to work with him on a shared pool of tasks. taking about the steps, ideas etc.13:44
NCommanderasac, ah13:44
persiaplymouth just needs a rebuild, pending a fix for libdrm (in sponsors queue)13:44
NCommanderdyfet, mind if I move on, or do you have other things to add?13:44
dyfetnope13:44
NCommander[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)13:44
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)13:44
persiaI'm having issues finding the logs that I don't get in mail, so I'm not entirely sure about current state of kubuntu or xubuntu.13:45
ograhmm, se didnt get images since 13th13:45
persiaUbuntu livefs needs evolution help.13:45
ograhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/lucid/ubuntu-imx51/13:45
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/lucid/ubuntu-imx51/13:45
ograi'll check clementine ... guess she's unhappy again13:45
persiaogra: I was looking there, but no recent updates that I saw (but I have newer logs in email)13:45
ericmregarding the image status - found package xorg not properly named in pool/main/x/xorg/ in alternate image (looks like a DOS name error to me)13:46
ograwell, if logs dont show up there its very likely that clementine hangs13:46
* NCommander grumbles13:46
persiaogra: It's not clementine: the processes are running.  Check how the logs are published, perhaps?13:46
NCommander[action] NCommander to investigate ericm's xorg naming bug.13:46
MootBotACTION received:  NCommander to investigate ericm's xorg naming bug.13:46
ograericm, hmm, i thought NCommander fixed that13:46
NCommanderogra, I did. xorg might have broke it again :-/13:46
* persia is getting livefs build failure notifications13:46
ograpersia, i'll look on clementine dircetly fiurst13:46
persiaOK.13:46
NCommanderpersia, ogra ok to proceed?13:47
persiaYes.13:47
asacso is that an mtools bug again=?13:47
persiaasac: No.13:47
ograNCommander, yup13:47
NCommander[topic] Ubuntu Liquid13:47
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Liquid13:47
ograasac, looks like to me13:47
persiarbelem and I worked on packaging some of the outstanding interface stuff on Saturday and Sunday.13:48
asacgreat.13:48
persiaUnfortuantely we both fell simultaneously and unrelatedly ill, and didn't get everything compelted.13:48
persiaWe're hoping to push the rest of the missing packages this week.13:48
asachow many packages are needed?13:48
asacjust rough estimate13:48
ian_brasil_plasma-mobile, ubuntu liquid metapackage and liquid default settings to start13:49
persiaI can't find the list right now.13:49
asacian_brasil_: thanks.13:50
asacso anyone feels that this is at risk?13:50
NCommanderpersia, anything else, or can I go onto AOB?13:50
persiaIt's a couple plasma widgets + kdm-mobile and kwin-mobile (as we can't integrate the stuff upstream for lucid)13:50
asacor needs a push?13:50
persiaOh right, and -default-settings and -meta :)13:50
asacpersia: Riddell offered to helkp on the plasma bits13:51
asacafaik13:51
asacso tap him to get the packaging going :)13:51
persiarbelem and I get back in touch about an hour back, and feel we can make good progress this week.  We might ask for help to get REVU advocations for some of the new stuff.13:51
asacyes.13:51
ograpersia, FYI, seems the logs are missing due to rookery reorganization13:51
persiaasac: Riddell has been helping a lot :)13:51
asacok cool.13:51
persiaogra: That makes sense.  Let's get that sorted :)13:51
ograyep13:51
asacpersia: ping me and ogra for revu review13:51
persiaNCommander: I'm done, unless ian_brasil_ has something else (rbelem couldn't make it today)13:51
asacand NCommander ... i guess13:52
NCommanderian_brasil_, can I go ahead?13:52
ian_brasil_yes..persia if you can help with kwin-mobile that would be great13:52
asacyes13:52
NCommander[topic] Any Other Business13:52
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business13:52
asacdid we skip QA status?13:52
plars_yep13:52
persiaian_brasil_: We're planning that for tonight, if we can.13:52
asacok13:52
asacintentionally?13:53
asacplars_: NCommander: ?13:53
NCommanderoh, whoops13:53
NCommander[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)13:53
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)13:53
* NCommander is still somewhat out of it13:53
plars_We had pretty good coverage for images during the iso testing13:53
asacgood to hear13:53
plars_all images (including alts) were tested13:53
plars_pretty much everything that could be tested, was tested13:54
asacreally? were alternates tested before the release?13:54
plars_could use some more testers though, if anyone has hardware and spare cycles to do it on A3, would be really helpful13:54
ScottKNCommander: qt4-x11 4.6.1 is out, so expect several days this week where you can't build Qt stuff on armel because armel is out of sync with the arch all bits of the package.13:54
asacok. noted13:54
plars_asac: yes13:54
asacplars_: pleesa raise that the  week before next alpha13:54
asace.g. more testers13:54
persiaplars_: Can people with non-supported hardware (e.g. Beagle) help in any way with milestone testing?13:54
persiaScottK: Thanks for the warning.  Any idea when it will be uploaded?13:55
ogranot really13:55
asacplars_: so will we do the all-pairs testing now during this test cycle? maybe creating a talbe on the wiki that gruemaster can fill during the cycle would be good13:55
plars_persia: not really, since the milestones are targetted to the images for these supported platforms, however package testing can always be helpful, and can be done regardless of hardware13:55
ScottKpersia: Not for sure.  I'd say likely today, maybe tomorrow.13:55
ograyeah13:55
persiaplars_: Makes sense.13:55
plars_asac: yes, plan on getting on that now that we have A2 behind us13:55
ograpersia, the kernels might miss features we use ...13:56
persiaScottK: OK.  We'll watch that before pusing the liquid stuff then.13:56
=== plars_ is now known as plars
asacplars_: right. just thinking that we dont really need to block on the iso tracker getting the testcases13:56
asacwe can use something else until that happens ...13:56
asacthanks!13:56
asacok. thanks.13:56
NCommander[topic] Any Other Business13:56
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business13:56
GrueMasterasac: The problem wasn't iso.tracker.13:57
asacerr ... i didnt speak about any problem ;)13:57
ograwhy !13:57
ogra:)13:57
asaci was talking about all-pair testing now that A2 is out13:57
GrueMasterThe problem was the alt images came out at 8am UTC, midnight my time.  You started asking why  I wasn't testing at 3am my time.13:57
GrueMasterok13:58
asacGrueMaster: right. thats not an issue. i dont see a problem with how the alt images were tested. actually happy that we now did a first run13:58
asacmy point was about organiing all-pair testing during a2 -> a3 dev cycle13:58
ograbut we should see that we roll something testable earlier next round13:58
asacand said that we dont need to wait for iso tracker getting those pairs to start testing them13:58
ograso GrueMaster has a chance to get it done on regular worktime13:58
asacyes13:59
ograalternated for x86 are usually there very early13:59
ograeven before desktop13:59
asacalt images were the first time. we should have those available beginning of freeze period13:59
GrueMasterspeaking of which. meeting schedule.13:59
plarsthey are on the blueprint wiki, as well as the qa wiki for the tests themselves.  I have access enough now I think to add them to the db13:59
ograasac, they are there ... we build dailies since jaunty :P13:59
asacplars: cool. so lets just add them and use tracker13:59
ograasac, they are just not on the tracker until someone tells slangasek to add them14:00
asaclet me know when you added them14:00
asacogra: even better14:00
asac;)14:00
plarsasac: that's the plan, just going to have someone walk me through it the first time since it appears to be fairly manual, and I don't want to muck it up14:00
ograbut they can be tested nontheless14:00
NCommanderWe're over time14:00
ogra(and should be)14:00
asacplars: thanks. sounds good14:00
NCommanderAny last minute tihngs to bring up before I close the meeting?14:00
asacNCommander: we are on time ;) ...14:00
GrueMastermeeting schedule!14:00
asaclets adjourn14:00
NCommander#endmeeting14:00
MootBotMeeting finished at 08:00.14:00
NCommander\o/14:01
NCommanderThanks all14:01
asacGrueMaster: ok14:01
cooloney1cool14:01
ograthanks14:01
asacGrueMaster: we can do that in the call ... you want to rorate it?14:01
cooloney1thanks,14:01
asacrotate?14:01
GrueMasterIt is now 6am my time.  Yes, I would like to rotate again.14:01
asaci think we said to have 2 month same schedule14:02
asacthen rotate14:02
asachow long is this schedule now?14:02
GrueMasterWe've been on this schedule since August.14:02
asachmm. actually i think we never talked about the meeting ... just the call14:02
persiaAre we discussing meeting schedules?14:02
persiaIf so, I'll volunteer to be a recipient: all parties interested in attending the meeting, mail me with your UTC offset.  I'll find a couple candidates times that are least bad for the fewest people.14:02
asacok14:02
persiaNCommander: Please [ACTION] me with being a recipient in the meeting minutes.14:03
asaci think the public meeting shouldnt rotate every 2 month though. easier for community to keep tstuff14:03
persiaAnd I'll report next week (at this time).14:03
asacbut it was since august, so fine.14:03
asaclets discuss14:03
pittihello14:54
persiaHey pitti.  It appears http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_ea7519273c82ed12 aren't available yet, so we don't know who is supposed to attend this meeting :)14:55
pittiexactly14:55
pittiI pinged mdz, but apparently he's in the FFA timezone14:55
pitti(far far away)14:55
pittiso we might need to skip this one14:56
persia3:00 there, I believe14:56
kees\o14:57
persiaWe may as well run through it.  I suspect we'll want to have the same continuity-preserving attendance next time.14:57
persiaAs long as no binding decisions are taken, all should be fine.14:57
=== jimmah is now known as pak33m
cjwatsonhere15:01
keespitti_: you're here twice.  :)15:02
pittiI know; I'm at my grandpa's at a very shitty mobile->proxoid->corkscrew->ssh tunnel connection15:02
cjwatsonso can we actually do anything other than action review?15:03
pittiand having one remote and one local client, just to cover the disconnects :)15:03
keespitti: ah-ha, cool.15:03
pittiwe have one pending request from Martin-Eric Racine for per-package upload15:04
pittiother than that I just see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda15:04
pittiwith the team membership being in limbo, I'd actually prefer to postpone the voting15:05
persiaI don't think the pending request can be processed today.15:05
cjwatsonagreed, our terms have expired15:05
cjwatsonwhich is regrettable, but not much we can legally do15:05
keesyeah15:05
cjwatsonwe need the returning officer to get out of bed15:06
pittithe outstanding actions don't look to me as if we could do something about them right now?15:06
persiaThe first item is essentially waiting for the poll to be closed.15:06
persiaThe second item has been approved by the CC, pending assembly of the new DMB, so also waiting on the poll to be closed.15:06
cjwatsonand the third item I was hoping to get done this morning but spent it yak-shaving instead15:07
persiachair for the next meeting?15:09
pittiI'll be at the next meeting, anyway15:10
cjwatsonsame resolution as last time15:10
pittiit'll be during the platform sprint, but should be early enough to participate15:10
cjwatson15:22 <persia> I was thinking someone could volunteer to chair, and if they didn't happen to be on the board, act as a facilitator for that meeting alone.15:10
cjwatson15:23 <cjwatson> I can do that15:10
cjwatson15:23 <mdz> I think the "old" board should turn up at the next meeting regardless, to help with continuity15:10
cjwatson15:23 <mdz> at least some of us15:11
cjwatson15:23 <mdz> I will be traveling to a time zone which would make participation difficult15:11
cjwatson15:24 <pitti> I'm happy to join that meeting15:11
cjwatson15:24 <mdz> [agreed] cjwatson and pitti will participate in the next DMB meeting regardless of the election outcome15:11
cjwatson15:24 <MootBot> AGREED received:  cjwatson and pitti will participate in the next DMB meeting regardless of the election outcome15:11
cjwatson15:24 <mdz> you can work out what to do about a chair between yourselves ;-)15:11
cjwatsonI won't be on Pacific time yet; getting up at 7am will not be a problem15:11
pittisame here15:11
=== robbiew_ is now known as robbiew
cjwatsonany other business that we can usefully transact?15:13
pittiseems not15:14
pittisee you in two weeks then?15:15
cjwatsonthen I think we're done; sorry this is rather unsatisfying15:15
keescool, see everyone then.  :)15:15
=== imlad|aw` is now known as imlad
=== fader` is now known as fader_
=== Pici` is now known as Pici
=== jibouman` is now known as jiboumans
bjfRoll Call17:00
* cking waves17:00
* rtg waves17:00
* ogasawara waves17:00
bjfI believe that manjo, sconklin and amitk are probably not making this meeting17:01
* jjohansen waves17:01
* JFo waves17:01
* smb arrives 17:01
=== cypher__1 is now known as czajkowski
bjfwaiting for apw17:02
* apw is here17:02
bjf#startmeeting17:02
MootBotMeeting started at 11:02. The chair is bjf.17:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:02
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting17:02
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting17:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:02
bjfNOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.17:02
bjfskipping the open item, it's for amitk17:03
bjf[TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs17:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Lucid Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs17:03
ogasawaraRelease Meeting Bugs (1 bug, 3 blueprints) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid17:03
ogasawaraAlpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (29 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2144517:03
ogasawara * 3 linux kernel bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2144517:03
ogasawara * 2 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-fsl-imx51/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2144517:03
ogasawara * 0 linux-ec2 bug - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-ec2/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2144517:03
ogasawara * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-mvl-dove/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2144517:03
bjf[TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: Milestoned Features17:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Lucid Release Status: Milestoned Features17:03
ogasawaraRelease Targeted Bugs (97 bugs) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs17:04
ogasawara * 8 linux kernel bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux17:04
ogasawara * 3 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-fsl-imx5117:04
ogasawara * 1 linux-ec2 bug - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-ec217:04
ogasawara * 2 linux-mvl-dove bug - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-mvl-dove17:04
ogasawaraMilestoned Features - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-10.0417:04
ogasawara * 1 blueprint - https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-new-kernel-on-lts17:04
ogasawara..17:04
bjf[TOPIC] Lucid Release Status: New metric (apw, ogasawara)17:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Lucid Release Status: New metric (apw, ogasawara)17:04
ogasawaraBugs with patches attached . . .17:04
ogasawaraIn collaboration with the community team, it was thought that bugs with patches attached would be a good target for issues which we could likely fix quickly and therefore close.  It was requested we add this info to our weekly meeting17:04
ogasawara119 bugs with patches - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on17:04
ogasawarahttp://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/17:04
MootBotLINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/17:04
ogasawara..17:05
apwi assume the plan is to include these in general stats above17:05
apwand we continue to focus bug days on them?17:05
ogasawarayup, that's what I had in mind17:05
bjfapw, you asked for a specific agenda item17:05
apwyeah i think for this meeting we wanted it out there as an item, we can evaluate if thats useful17:06
apwas we move forward.17:06
bjfack17:06
apwI think we should be pointng out that if yuou have spare17:06
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (ogasawara)17:06
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling17:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (ogasawara)17:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling17:06
apwcycles they may be sensible ones to look at.17:06
apw..17:06
ogasawaraI'm going to work on completing some of my work items this week.  For ex detect staging drivers.17:06
ogasawara..17:06
apwwe need to get our stuff together17:07
apwfor JFO too, so he can get the arsenal going regular.  at the next sprint if not before17:07
apw..17:07
ogasawaraapw: yes, was going to ask if you'd had time to merge your arsenal bits?17:07
JFo+1 .. :)17:07
apwno i'd forgotten, i'll add to my list17:07
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)17:08
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta17:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta (apw)17:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-review-of-ubuntu-delta17:08
apwshalle we have an item for sprnt too to review/complete the arsenal automation17:08
ogasawaraapw: I think that'd be good17:08
apwNothing to report here.17:08
apw..17:08
ogasawaraapw: I'll also plan to go over arsenal bits with JFo next week17:08
apwgood stuff ..17:08
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)17:08
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review17:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)17:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review17:08
apwWe are going to review whether we should have all sub-systems builtin rather than as modules now that module probing is faster.  As a specific example we have just pulled out bluetooth as it will shortly be included in compat-wireless.17:09
apw..17:09
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin)17:09
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms17:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin)17:09
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms17:09
apwLots of work on i915 leading to us switching i915.powersave=0 by default as we are seeing nasty twitching and blanking issues, as well as some suspend hangs.17:10
apw..17:10
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)17:10
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development17:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)17:10
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development17:10
jjohansenfixed regression Bug #50706917:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 507069 in linux "aa-status is wrong for unconfined processes" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50706917:10
apwam i expecting an update for that, am planning on uploading 'now'17:11
jjohansendebugging dfa optimization17:11
jjohansenapw: okay17:11
ckingat least I now know what dfa optimisation is17:11
jjohansendfa optimization isn't tweeked yet but is giving about 40% size savings and 50% speedup17:12
jjohansen:)17:12
apwwe still looking to get something committed this week on that?17:12
jjohansenyep17:12
apwcool17:12
jjohansenits just working out a couple bugs17:12
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)17:13
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance17:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)17:13
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance17:13
csurbhi1csurbhi ..17:13
apwwe have regressed some since we gained plymouth in the initramfs17:13
apwnot sure if that is its final resting place yet, need to confirm with keybuk as to plan going forward17:14
apw.17:14
apw..17:14
bjf[TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)17:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)17:14
bjfNothing new to report17:14
bjf..17:14
bjf[TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)17:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)17:14
jjohansenI need to finish an update to EC2 today17:14
jjohansenand include the missing patches dir17:15
jjohansen..17:15
bjf[TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)17:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)17:15
apwBe aware a bunch of work items have appeared out of the woodwork.  It seems that we were losing some foreign items in the burndown charts.  I will be reviewing those once the new charts are up and running correctly and will try and summarise those which appear new.17:15
apwWe are just uploading a kernel update to 2.6.32.4 which also includes a bunch of patches from the mailing list.17:15
apw..17:16
bjf[TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)17:16
MootBotNew Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)17:16
smbDapper:     2.6.15-55.81 (security)17:16
smbHardy:      2.6.24-26.64 (security)17:16
smb-LBM:       2.6.24-26.35 (proposed)[40]  0/ 1 verifications done17:16
smb-LUM:       2.6.24-26.44 (proposed)[40]  0/ 1 verifications done17:16
smbIntrepid:   2.6.27-16.44 (security)17:16
smbJaunty:     2.6.28-17.58 (security)17:16
smbKarmic:     2.6.31-18.55 (proposed)[11]  4/12 verifications done17:16
smb-LBM:       2.6.31-18-20 (proposed)[11]  0/ 2 verifications done17:16
smbThere is work going on for a security update on the kernel and on updating17:16
smbthe Karmic kernel to 2.6.31.12(final).17:16
smbWe are now also get close to the cutoff date for Karmic SRU patches to the17:16
smbkernel. If there are upstream patches anybody wants to get SRU'ed into Karmic,17:16
smbmake sure to send them to the kernel-team list before Feb-12.17:16
smb..17:17
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)17:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)17:17
ogasawaraCurrent regression stats (broken down by release):17:17
ogasawara== regression-potential (up 5) ==17:17
ogasawara31 lucid bugs17:17
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential+lucid&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:17
ogasawara== regression-update (up 2)==17:17
ogasawara9 karmic bugs17:17
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update+karmic&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:17
ogasawara5 jaunty bugs17:17
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update+jaunty&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:17
ogasawara2 intrepid bugs17:17
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update+intrepid&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:17
ogasawara1 hardy bug17:17
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update+hardy&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:17
ogasawara== regression-release (up 2)==17:18
ogasawara60 karmic bugs17:18
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release+karmic&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:18
ogasawara22 jaunty bugs17:18
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release+jaunty&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:18
ogasawara12 intrepid bugs17:18
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release+intrepid&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:18
ogasawara4 hardy bugs17:18
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release+hardy&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:18
ogasawara== regression-proposed (no change)==17:18
ogasawara1 karmic bug17:18
ogasawara * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-proposed+karmic&field.tags_combinator=ALL17:18
ogasawara..17:18
=== fader_ is now known as fader|lunch
apwogasawara, perhaps we could put all the links on the meeting page only, and just point one link there and just have the numbers17:19
ogasawaraapw: sounds much saner to me.  will have Jfo do this next week.17:19
JFoyep17:19
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)17:19
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)17:19
ogasawaraJust a gentle reminder if you have a few spare cycles today:17:20
ogasawarahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/BugDay/2010011917:20
ogasawarahttp://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20100119.html17:20
MootBotLINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20100119.html17:20
ogasawara..17:20
bjf[TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?17:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?17:20
bjf..17:20
* ogasawara raises hand17:20
bjfogasawara, go17:20
ogasawaraWe should have probably done this in the beginning, but I wanted to formally introduce JFo as our new Kernel QA/Triage person17:21
JFoO/17:21
ogasawara..17:21
apwwelcome aboard JFo17:21
* apw heaps lots of work on you17:21
* JFo would like to thank the Academy...17:21
smbDon't be too quick :)17:21
JFoheh17:21
JFo..17:22
bjfanyone else have anything?17:22
bjfonce ....17:22
bjftwice ....17:22
bjfthanks everyone17:22
bjf#endmeeting17:22
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:22.17:22
ckingthanks bjf17:22
apwbjf, thanks17:22
JFothanks bjf17:22
=== gord_ is now known as gord
=== fader|lunch is now known as fader_
=== lifeless1 is now known as lifeless
=== cjohnston_ is now known as cjohnston
=== pleia2_ is now known as pleia2
=== imlad is now known as imlad|away
=== stgraber_ is now known as stgraber
czajkowskiAloha :)19:59
czajkowskiAnyone here for the LoCo Council meeting ..20:00
cjohnstono/20:00
cjohnstonbig crowd20:02
czajkowskiI'll give it a few20:02
* popey puts the dinner on simmer20:02
czajkowskiAgenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda20:02
popeythanks czajkowski20:02
czajkowskipopey: in case my net/irc dies can someone other than me chair this as I'm not sure how stable my connection is20:05
popeyok20:05
huatsczajkowski, I am here too20:05
czajkowskihuats: hey20:06
huatspopey, what is a simmer ?20:08
huats(I am curious)20:08
cjohnstonlow basically20:08
popeylow heat20:08
popeyso it can stay there and not burn20:08
cjohnstonkeep it warm20:08
huatsok20:08
huats:)20:08
huatsthanks for my knowledge :)20:08
czajkowskishall we start?20:10
popeyya20:10
huatsjust the 3 os us ?20:11
huatss/os/of/20:11
czajkowskiJanC: itnet7: ping20:11
huatsI mean from the council ?20:11
=== pgraner` is now known as pgraner
czajkowskiseems to be for now20:11
huatsok20:12
popeyyeah20:12
popeylets crack on20:12
popeyok, so lucid roadmap is first20:13
popeyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Roadmaps/Lucid/LoCoCouncil20:13
popeyfirst thing was define a list of teams for re-approval20:14
popeythats done...20:14
czajkowskidone  makes bacon happy :)20:14
popeydo you have the link?20:14
huats:)20:14
popeyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval20:14
czajkowskihttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval20:14
popeygot it20:14
popeyso basically all of those teams _except_ the ones approved in 200920:15
czajkowskinods20:15
huatssounds good to me20:15
popey"OBJECTIVE: Define a list of teams that the LoCo Council can target for re-approval."20:16
czajkowskiI have a rough mail drafted it needs to be looked over and tweeked20:16
popeydone, yes?20:16
czajkowskiDONE20:16
popey"OBJECTIVE: Re-approve an agreed set of LoCo Teams"20:16
popeyin progress?20:16
popeyi.e. we havent got to that yet, but will will real soon now!20:16
huatsyep20:16
popeycool20:16
popey"OBJECTIVE: Better implement and document the re-approval process"20:17
popeyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval  has that20:17
popeyshall we say "In progress" until we have mailed loco-contacts and let everyone pick it apart?20:17
huatssounds at like in progress to me20:17
huatsagreed20:17
czajkowskiok20:17
popey"OBJECTIVE: Improve awareness of the LoCo team re-approval process."20:18
popeysame :)20:18
huats:)20:18
jonosorry I am late20:18
huats(+1)20:18
popeyonce the mail goes to loco-contacts.. we can blog it perhaps?20:18
popeynp jono20:18
huatsmister jono you are forgave20:18
czajkowskipopey: aye and get it on the fridge?20:18
jonohuats, lol20:18
jono:)20:18
huatspopey, I do agree also on the blog post20:19
popeyczajkowski: yup, if we agree the mail (in a bit - next item)20:19
popeywe can then blog and fridge it!20:19
popeythen we can consider it DONE :)20:19
popeyso right now, In progress with a view to being done very very soon20:19
popeyhappy?20:20
czajkowskidelighted!20:20
jono:)20:20
popeyczajkowski: will you be ok to update the status on the blueprints at the end of the meeting?20:20
czajkowskiyes will do20:20
popeywin!20:20
jonowhat was the current status on the teams?20:20
jonofor re-approval :)20:20
czajkowskimost are inprogres20:20
czajkowskiand will be done by end of week20:20
popeyjono: we havent mailed any yet20:20
popeythe 1.2.3 is this..20:21
czajkowskithats on the to do list this week20:21
jonocan I suggest they are broken up over the cycle20:21
jonothe teams on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-lucid-loco-council-plans20:21
popey1. we mail loco contacts with a mail which czajkowski has drafted20:21
popey2. we mail the teams on that list20:21
popeywell, some of them?20:21
popeyfirst 5-10?20:21
popey3. ???20:21
popey4. Profit!20:21
czajkowskigrin20:22
czajkowskiah yes that's what I wanted to clarify20:22
jonopopey, czajkowski I recommend you break the cycle up into weeks20:22
jonoand then spread them out and then it doesnt feel like too much work20:22
czajkowskipopey: re approval does that take place in meeting, or on emaik ?20:22
jonomake sense?20:22
czajkowskijono: aye it does, there are 30 teams and 6 of us, so we had hoped to break it down a bit already20:22
jonoczajkowski, indeed20:23
popeyI'm happy to go with that, yes20:23
jonoI would recommend as an output from this session that you divide it into week, spread the teams out and allocate them to council members20:23
popeysuggestions on breaking up the list? just grab 5 at a time?20:23
jonoif they are not allocated, the cynical side of my brain thinks they may not be done :-)20:23
popeyok, after the meeting I'll split the list up and allocate20:23
jonopopey, yeah, I don't think the order matters20:23
jonopopey, rock and roll20:23
popeywe need to update the list on the blueprint20:24
popeywe have a list on the wiki which is "better", we need to add that back20:24
popeywill do that once divided up20:24
popeyanything else on the topic of re-approvals?20:24
jonothanks popey20:24
czajkowskipopey: I had thought just go 1,2,3..6 and repeat going through the list20:24
jonoone final thing20:24
czajkowskiavoding each council members loco20:24
jonoyou should check progress of the current allocated teams in each meeting20:25
jonowill help identify blockers :)20:25
huatsI agree with czajkowski20:25
popeyyes20:25
popeywe have a table on the wiki to track progress20:25
popeyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval20:25
popeymaybe we should just move that to the blueprint? and track it there?20:25
popeythe wiki gives better formatting20:26
jonowiki is fine, just updated outcomes on the BP20:26
jonosuch as approved or rejected20:26
popeyah, ok20:26
czajkowskiah you mean the locos20:26
czajkowskiI see20:26
czajkowskiyou want them updated on the BP also ?20:26
popeyjust the overall end result czajkowski20:26
popeynot the ongoing communication status20:26
czajkowskiok20:26
popeythat right jono?20:27
jonoyep20:27
jonothen BP subs can see the general progress20:27
popeycool20:27
popeyso can we look at the mail laura wrote and just give a yay/nay to sending that to loco contacts?20:28
huatsok it was not my understanding but it great too20:28
huats(I mean the usage of the BP)20:28
popeythe usage of BP is just to let jono keep track on us ;)20:29
popeyI dont mind updating that from the wiki myself20:29
jono:)20:29
popeyhttp://etherpad.com/DWoSGJB7cy  is the mail we should be sending to loco-contacts to let them know we are re-approving20:29
popeyjono: / huats ^ click20:30
* jono reads20:30
huatspopey, I read it this morning it is good to me20:30
popeyoh, cool!20:30
jonoperfect :)20:31
jonogreat work czajkowski :-)20:31
popeywin20:31
popeyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda20:32
popeynothing else on the agenda20:32
jonomaybe we can get the list of teams for reapproval hammered out?20:32
jonobefore we do that20:32
jonocan I follow up on a few actions in the blueprint?20:32
jono[popey] Make sure all approved teams on the wiki teams list are in the locoteams-approved Launchpad team: TODO20:33
popeyDONE20:33
jono[effie-jayx] Determine the list of teams that are in locoteams-approved that have not been through the re-approval process: TODO20:33
popeyDONE, on the wiki and in the BP20:33
jono[popey] Assign re-approvals across the council members: TODO20:33
popeythats the list we have at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval20:33
popeythat one I will do tonight20:33
popeyafter this meeting20:34
jonocool20:34
jono[popey] Document how a council member performs the re-approval process: TODO20:34
popeyDONE20:34
popeyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Roadmaps/Lucid/LoCoCouncil20:34
jono[dpm] Invite translators to translate the overview document into different languages: TODO20:34
jonoI will assign dpm to this20:34
jonohmm20:34
jonoone sec20:34
jonoon:20:34
jono[popey] Document how a council member performs the re-approval process: TODO20:34
popeysorry, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval20:34
jonoI would not say the roadmap is really documentation20:34
jonoahh!20:34
popeyposted wrong url20:34
jonogreat20:35
jono[popey] Write up blog entries to explain how the process works and why: TODO20:35
popeytodo after the mail has gone to loco-contacts20:35
popeyi expect some mails back and forth about it20:35
popeyso blogs would follow based on feedback from loco contacts20:35
czajkows1ibah20:35
jonook cool, popey, can you go and mark the ones that are DONE as DONE20:36
huatspopey, I think it is a good choice to wait for the first exchanges20:36
jonoon https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-lucid-loco-council-plans20:36
czajkows1ijono: I'm in the middle of edting that now20:36
jonothanks czajkows20:36
popeyyay20:36
popeyi am on sucky 3g at the moment20:36
jonopopey, np :)20:36
czajkows1ipopey: my net died again20:36
czajkows1ipopey: did you see my two questions re In progress??20:37
popeyn o20:37
jonoawesome, thanks folks20:37
jonoI have to run to catch a plane20:37
jonospeak to you in a bit20:37
popeyfly jono fly!20:37
jonogreat work, you are rocking the LoCo Council!20:37
czajkows1ijono: toodles20:37
czajkows1i20:32 < czajkowski> popey: am I right in say so [popey] Assign re-approvals across the council members: INPROGRESS20:37
* jono all smiles :)20:37
huatsenjoy your trip20:37
czajkows1i20:33 < czajkowski> and Document how a council member performs the re-approval process: INPROGRESS20:37
jonothanks folks!20:37
popeyfirst one yes, second one done20:38
popeythe second one is effectively what we have on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval20:38
czajkows1iany updates on20:38
czajkows1i[popey] Make sure all approved teams on the wiki teams list are in the locoteams-approved Launchpad team: TODO20:38
czajkows1i[effie-jayx] Determine the list of teams that are in locoteams-approved that have not been through the re-approval process: TODO20:38
popeyfirst is done20:39
popeysecond done20:39
huatsguys the French team is not on the reapproval list,is it normal ?(I think I have already asked that but I forgot the answer)20:39
czajkows1iblue print is looking good now :D20:39
popeyhuats: its fine, there are lots that are not on the list20:41
popeywe just picked 30 at random20:41
popeyyou were lucky this time :)20:41
czajkows1iso I've a quick question20:41
popeygo20:41
huatspopey, ok20:41
czajkows1iwhen we send out the mails to the LoCo for reapproval20:42
popeyya20:42
czajkows1ido we send it to the point of contact on launchpad ?20:42
popeyyes20:42
czajkows1igrand20:42
czajkows1itick20:42
huatspopey, next time I see you, you'll get a drink for the good choice20:42
popeyif you like.. i can fill the table with points of contact20:42
popeyhuats: effie chose, not me :)20:42
popeybut I'll have his drink anyway :)20:42
czajkows1ipopey: if you have to do it manually, then no20:42
popeyczajkows1i: i want to make te list easy20:42
popeyby linking to lp page, wiki page etc20:43
popeyjust like when we have a meeting20:43
huatspopey, the council member will do it by him(her)self...20:43
popeytrue20:43
popeygood idea20:43
czajkows1iaye I think that's best20:43
czajkows1iI just want it for the email for locoteams20:43
huatsok20:43
popeyi think we might need to be careful who we contact20:43
huatsindeed20:44
popeyperhaps also look at the administrator of their mailman lists?20:44
popeybecause (for example) the contact for the uk team isn't the admin of the lp team20:44
popeyalthough the loco team list page does list the contact for each team...20:44
czajkows1iaye20:44
popeyah, we'll worry about that when we get bounces ;)20:44
czajkows1ishould we also add a column to note when we made contact on the wiki ?20:45
popeythats kinda what the "status" column is for20:45
huatsczajkows1i, good idea20:45
popeyfree text to show what's been done20:45
huatsok20:45
popeysorry, not status, progress20:45
czajkows1iah ok so I can add mail sent DATE20:45
czajkows1iok20:46
popeyyeah20:46
huats+120:46
popey2nd mail sent, DATE..20:46
=== czajkows1i is now known as czajkowski
popey3rd mail sent, date..20:46
huatsyep20:46
popeyetc20:46
czajkowskiok I think that;s all of the headings covered on the agenda so20:46
czajkowskibp, roadmap and reapproval.20:46
popeyanything else you can think of we need to talk about czajkowski / huats ?20:46
huatspopey, nope20:47
czajkowskiye20:47
czajkowskiyes20:47
popeyooo20:47
czajkowskitodays email to the loco teams list20:47
huatsyep20:47
popeyyup20:47
huatsyou are right20:47
huats:)20:47
popeywhat about it?20:47
czajkowskihow many contacts are required per team20:47
czajkowski> Recently we have created the Ubuntu Colombian Council in order to divide20:48
czajkowski> > responsabilities in the administration. We currently have 5 members of the20:48
czajkowski> > council, including myself, the LoCo contact.20:48
czajkowski> >20:48
czajkowski> > At the last meeting of the council they asked me that which scenario20:48
czajkowski> > may delegate more than a LoCo conctact? under which circumstances?20:48
czajkowski> > or if it exist some restriccion to have more than one official contact per20:48
czajkowski> > team. I have no found an answer so I ask the question here in the list.20:48
czajkowskiI don't know if there is an official answer to this but my personal20:48
czajkowskiview is that a LoCo contact should be an individual as the whole point20:48
czajkowskiof the role is to have an individual who can be contacted when20:48
czajkowskinecessary. I believe that not every local team does things this way20:48
czajkowskinow while it;s a bit early to vote/come to agreement I thought we could discuss it if we had a few mins20:48
czajkowskithough. It would be quite good to have the LoCo Council clarify the20:48
czajkowskiissue.20:48
popeyi think each team should run as it sees fit, but ensuring that it's possible to contact someone20:49
popeyhuats: french team is big right? Do you have exactly one person who is the contact for the team?20:49
huatsfrom my point of view, there no common rules, and each team can run as it want20:49
czajkowskiit seems many locos operate so differnetly, some have just a point of contact (Ireland) others have teams , management and councils20:50
huatspopey, actually we are quite big20:50
czajkowskihuats: really you don't say 5000 people at a release party!20:50
popey:)20:50
huats:)20:50
popeyi dont think we should dictate this20:50
popeyeach team has cultural differences and background20:50
popeysome prefer one contact person, some like a team20:50
huatswe have a many lists for different actions20:50
czajkowskithats what I thought and seeing as the mail came in today from Mathew East I thought I'd bring it up in here20:50
popeywhatever works best for them20:50
huatswe have a few contacts currently on the wiki page20:50
huatsbut on our website (for the french people) we point a few (3 IIRC)20:51
popeyit makes sense in terms of volunteers to have multiple people20:51
popeybecause people get20:51
popey* get busy, go on holiday etc20:51
huatsexactly...20:51
czajkowskinods20:52
popeyso long as it doesnt lead to confusion or lack of communication between members of the "leadership"20:52
czajkowskimakes sense20:52
huatspopey, that is the idea..20:52
popeyhappy with that czajkowski ?20:52
czajkowskihappy as larry!20:53
czajkowskiDdorda: do you want to say something?20:53
Ddordaczajkowski: sure20:53
Ddordawe have a problem in our LoCo in the way things are going20:53
Ddordathe LoCo leaders are the owners of the LoCo, and there's is no discussion about anything with the community20:54
czajkowskiDdorda: I know you;ve mentioned this in -locoteams, but you may need to explain it to huats and to popey20:54
Ddordaczajkowski: okay20:55
huatsczajkowski, I have read the email but it is always good to hear again20:55
popeyI am going to have to disappear and come back later..20:55
Ddordathere was 2 LoCo leaders so far, Shezif and Beni. Beni wasn't active for about 2 years20:55
Ddordaand Shezif was being the only owner of the community20:55
popeyczajkowski / huats I will action the items in a bit, when my connection is back20:56
czajkowskipopey: grand20:56
huatspopey, ok20:56
Ddordaif someone had an idea to imporve the community that he didn't like, he just said no, and if you were trying to do it anyway you got banned20:56
czajkowskiDdorda: see there is no owner of a community20:56
Ddordaczajkowski: well, he is the owner, notthe LoCo leader20:56
Ddordaas should be20:57
huatsDdorda, how can he be the "owner" of the community ?20:57
huatswhat do you mean ?20:57
Ddordahuats: he do w/e he wants, it's more Shezif's Community about Ubuntu than an Israeli LoCo20:58
huatsok20:58
Ddordafor ex. he made a project with an university in the south20:58
huatsDdorda, it is not really the idea of an Ubuntu LoCo we want to push20:58
Ddordadidn't tell anything about us until maybe an half month before it20:59
huats(from my point of view)20:59
Ddordahuats: I knowm that is my complaint20:59
czajkowskiHas you loco had a meeting and tried to talk to him , possibly showing and discussing the leadership role http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct20:59
Ddordaczajkowski: I tried to organize a meeting as you suggested, but there was no response, I belive it went down in the forums before anyone saw it21:00
Ddordaanyway, for now he chose 2 new managers21:00
Ddordabecause he's going to the army21:00
czajkowskiDdorda: can you clarify, your LoCo holds all it's meetings on forums ??21:01
czajkowskido you have any IRC meetings?21:01
czajkowskimake your minutes public and send to your mailing list21:01
Ddordaczajkowski: no. the managers have discussions on the managers forum21:01
czajkowskithat's not very open or ideal21:02
Ddordaand yes, only forums meetings21:02
czajkowskihuats: what do you think ?21:02
Ddordathe chat is for support (as much as the forums are)21:02
huatsczajkowski, I agree21:03
huatsczajkowski, IRC meeting a really for discussion21:03
mhall119|workDdorda: would the members be willing and able to do an IRC meeting?21:03
huatsczajkowski, Ddorda IRC meeting are almost needed for discussion21:03
czajkowskiDdorda: I think the loco council will most likely contact the loco team and see if they will talk over email with us, possibly an irc meeting21:03
Ddordamhall119|work: I guess so, but time should be choosed, and Im not sure if i;m supposed to ask in the forums what os the best time, or just give a date and hour21:04
czajkowskiDdorda: thanks for bringing this up21:04
Ddordahuats: there is no discussion between the community and the managers21:04
czajkowskiI might do a blog post on suggestions to help locos do certain things, while they are not mandatroy they are best case examples21:04
Ddordathey manage and they ask for supoort or write guides. that's how it works21:04
huatsDdorda, I think the time will be choose by the council and the contacts21:05
czajkowskiin the mean time, the loco council will discuss and drop the israel team an email, ok ?21:05
huatsczajkowski, agreed21:05
czajkowskiDdorda: is that ok?21:05
czajkowskias I'd like more people present for the discussion if possible.21:05
mhall119|workwould someone from the LC moderate an IRC meeting if one is held?21:05
Ddordaczajkowski: sure. btw, one of the new managers is very open thinking, and I beliebe he will help you21:05
Ddordacalled Akiva21:06
huatsczajkowski, may be we can proceed that by email in the LC21:06
czajkowskiDdorda: ok, thank you21:06
czajkowskihuats: yes21:06
Ddordamhall119|work: I guess so21:06
czajkowskiDoes anyone elese have any other loco council issues?21:06
mhall119|workI have a request of the lc21:07
czajkowskimhall119|work: shoot21:07
mhall119|workhttp://growingupfree.org:8000/ is the upcoming changes to the loco directory21:07
mhall119|workwith event tracking21:07
czajkowski<3 event tracking :D21:07
mhall119|worksince LC members have the magical ability to add/manage global events, your help in testing it would be much appreciated21:08
mhall119|workthat's all21:08
mhall119|workand thanks21:08
czajkowskiso you;'d like the 6 of us to go and have a play with it and let you know how it goes21:08
czajkowskiok21:08
czajkowski:)21:08
czajkowskimhall119|work: thank you for your work on this21:08
czajkowskiand to the others21:08
czajkowskiI for one am thrilled for such a feature21:08
huatsmhall119|work, may be send an email to the LC ...21:09
czajkowskimhall119|work: would you mind also dropping us an email21:09
mhall119|worksure, what's the address?21:09
czajkowskibut I'll poke folks also about it21:09
czajkowskiloco-council<at>lists.ubuntu.com21:09
czajkowski:)21:09
czajkowskiok well if that's it21:10
mhall119|workcool, it'll have to wait until I get home, smtp is blocked here at work21:10
czajkowskiI think we'll call the meeting to an end21:10
czajkowskiThanks folks for coming and taking part21:10
huatsthanks czajkowski21:10
huatsand everyone else21:10
mhall119|workthank you21:10
=== cypher_ is now known as czajkowski
=== bjf is now known as bjf-afk
czajkowskiyes22:47
=== fader_ is now known as fader|away
=== ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae

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