[00:55] <laymansterms> hi, I'm using the Tomboy synchronization feature with Ubuntu One. For some reason, Ubuntu One does not appear to be getting my updated notes after I re-synchronize. This is most obvious when I look at the web client version of the notes. The notes are out of date by many day. What are the best ways to try and debug the problem before I file a bug?
[00:56] <laymansterms> what are good logs to look at? I looked at ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon* but it doesn't seem that helpful to me.
[00:57] <laymansterms> ~/.config/tomboy/tomboy*.log was not very helpful either.
[00:58] <laymansterms> Does anyone have a suggestion for what to do? I'd love for Ubuntu One service to be useful again. I'm not sure why it stopped working (maybe it just never worked after the initial upload).
[09:07] <jmule> hello
[13:50] <urbanape__> morning, all
[13:56] <thisfred> morning everyone: I'm on face duty today, feel free to (re)direct any questions to me
[14:18]  * Chipaca doesn't remember how to say "face" in dutch
[14:44] <joshuahoover> thisfred: fyi...i'll be taking face duty tomorrow so you can put that in the email when you send it out at the end of the day
[14:45] <thisfred> joshuahoover: thx will do
[15:01] <teknico> I have to go, so I'll go first
[15:01] <teknico> DONE: completed the new dev environ, avoiding bzr problems (#506974); proposed a branch to switch funambol_cared to a new server branch (#418048); updated story-0015 bugs
[15:01] <teknico> TODO: bug triage; test funambol cared and funambol exchange deployment; fix a user's problems accessing the contacts web IU (#506584)
[15:01] <teknico> BLOCK: none
[15:01] <urbanape> MEETING STARTS / MEETING BEGINS / WHATEVER TRIGGERS YOUR NOTIFICATION ABOUT OUR DAILY STANDUP
[15:01] <aquarius> moi!
[15:01] <statik> my eyes, my blessed eyes
[15:02] <urbanape> me
[15:02] <Chipaca> me
[15:02] <jblount> me
[15:04] <urbanape> go for it, aquarius
[15:04] <Chipaca> dobey: rodrigo__: ping
[15:04] <aquarius> teknico, dobey, rodrigo__?
[15:04] <aquarius> ⚀ DONE: redo music store URLs; adapt music store plugin prototype to use new URLs; fix our tests which use openid to not fail (fixing django-openid-auth problem); push to pqm; discuss music store visual design and review comps
[15:04] <aquarius> ⚁ TODO: test the music store (!); have music library page send message to downloader daemon and row to database; write Ubuntu Developer Day talk; make tomboy first-sync experience nicer
[15:04] <aquarius> ⚂ BLOCKED:
[15:04] <aquarius> suburbanape, you're up (wonder if that'll trigger?)
[15:04] <urbanape> DONE: Stayed home and had a dream. Didn't come true.
[15:04] <urbanape> TODO: Fix some of the js problems we're seeing with IE. Barf. Also, on-call review today. See if I can't squeeze in some Bindwood time. Prep for tomorrow's slideshow thing.
[15:04] <urbanape> BLOCK: None
[15:05] <rodrigo__> me
[15:05] <urbanape> Chipaca, ifyouplease
[15:05] <Chipaca> DONE: catchup, meetings. TODO: more. BLOCKED: no
[15:06] <urbanape> we should all strive for seven-word statuses.
[15:07] <jblount> DONE: Holiday, got public-files-webui up for review, fixed #506138 and #508115
[15:07] <jblount> TODO: Work on getting humanity icons into /files/ ui, still working through layout issues with /files/ and /plans/
[15:07] <jblount> BLOCKED: Nope
[15:07] <jblount> rodrigo__: GOGOGO
[15:07] <rodrigo__> • DONE: Finished nautilus plugin use of the contacts picker. Build new ubunet-dependencies and uploaded to PPA. Looked at tomboy notes syncing problems. Updated ubunet-dependencies' README to not use bzr bd
[15:07] <rodrigo__> • TODO: Conflict resolver tool in pair tool. Look at becoming a MOTU (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers). Make sandy's snowy test suite work with our server (http://git.gnome.org/cgit/snowy/tree/api/tests.py). Discuss with jdo and aquarius about oauth token per app, not per machine? Move JS code to its own file and add jslint tests to check.
[15:07] <rodrigo__> • BLOCKED: no
[15:07] <rodrigo__> no next
[15:07] <rodrigo__> dobey, teknico: ??
[15:08] <Chipaca> rodrigo__: teknico already went
[15:08] <aquarius> "DONE: things TODO: too much BLOCKED: no". :)
[15:08] <rodrigo__> ah
[15:08] <Chipaca> yes, I feel like I'm cheating with those statuseses
[15:08] <aquarius> you are somewhat :)
[15:09] <jamalta> question about tomboy sync.. does it happen automatically or do i always have to trigger it?
[15:09] <dobey> eh?
[15:09] <Chipaca> jamalta: you always have to trigger it, and it's broken right now
[15:09] <dobey> i thought we decided not to do the stand-up on bug days
[15:10] <dobey> ☺ DONE: Reviews, More testing code for login script
[15:10] <dobey> ☹ TODO: Bug Day, Lots of new UI hacking
[15:10] <dobey> ☹ BLCK: None.
[15:11]  * jblount adds Bug Day to his TODO
[15:11] <jamalta> Chipaca: oh :(
[15:11] <jamalta> What's Bug Day?
[15:11] <urbanape> jblount, One caveat on the public-files-webui is that the buttons still show up for files under the "Shared With Me" tree. That should probably be addressed. Thought I brought it up last week when it was in discussion in the email threads.
[15:12] <urbanape> is every Tuesday a Bug Day now?
[15:12] <Chipaca> jamalta: a day where everybody on the desktop+ team tries to move 20 bugs forward
[15:13] <Chipaca> jamalta: it's a way of (trying to) keep our bug queue in check
[15:13] <jamalta> Chipaca: ah, that's pretty cool
[15:13] <Chipaca> or at least tame it a little
[15:13] <jamalta> how often do they happen, if you don't mind me asking?
[15:13] <Chipaca> jamalta: weekly, every tuesday
[15:13] <jamalta> Chipaca: Oh, pretty cool...
[15:14] <dobey> urbanape: has been since we started doing it :)
[15:14]  * Chipaca goes to his bug day list
[15:14] <Chipaca> jamalta: looks like it's down to 6 bugs a bug day, now :)
[15:14] <jamalta> Chipaca: heh, that's much more doable ;)
[15:14]  * urbanape has a memory like a goldfish. Or, at least, he thinks he does. He can't remember.
[15:15] <jamalta> urbanape: +1
[15:15] <jamalta> not as in "cool" but as "me too"...
[15:15] <jblount> urbanape: Right on. I'll submit a bug so it doesn't hold up that branch (at least from getting to zed).
[15:15] <urbanape> thanks
[15:16] <urbanape> I'd like to conditionally expose that by permission, but we don't have one for 'can_make_public'
[15:24] <dobey> for bug in bugs: bug.setImportance("Medium")
[15:24] <dobey> simple :)
[15:27] <aquarius> dobey, that's actually pretty close to being a legit launchpadlib script, that ;)
[15:28] <dobey> well, you need to do the auth and poke the lp object, and get the list of bugs you're supposed to review somehow, but yeah :)
[15:28] <urbanape> import random; for bug in bugs: bug.setImportance(random.choice(["Critical", "High", "Medium", "Wishlist"])
[15:28] <urbanape> )
[15:29] <rtgz> urbanape, yeah, and do the same with statuses...
[15:32] <statik> rmcbride: i'm just seeing some bug mail - for all the bugs about tomboy notes problems, there is a branch in progress that rodrigo has taken over for chad.
[15:34] <aquarius> dobey, aha, I get what you mean about D-Bus for desktopcouch key stuff now. Cheers for the patient explanation :)
[15:35] <dobey> sure :)
[15:35] <aquarius> that would be a Good Thing to do. Of course, if wishing made it so I'd already have done it.
[15:44] <aquarius> dobey, thinking about this...the problem with going to python-keyring is that couchdb-glib (say) will have to have a "if (windows) { get_key_from_windows_keyring } else if (mac) { get_key_from_mac_keychain } else if (gnome) { get_key_from_gnome_keyring } else if (kde) { get_key_from_kwallet } else { moan }", right?
[15:45] <aquarius> dobey, using the new proposal just means that couchdb-glib will need "if (windows) { windows_ipc_call_to_get_key } else if (mac) { mac_ipc_call_to_get_key } else if (linux) { dbus_call_to_get_key } else { moan }"
[15:45] <aquarius> dobey, is this a significant benefit?
[15:48] <dobey> well, it means there only needs to be an #ifdef for dealing with the IPC, and not the keyring as well.
[15:49] <dobey> currently it would need to do both, no?
[15:49] <aquarius> ...since you need the IPC in order to do the get-the-port call. Good point.
[15:50] <aquarius> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/desktopcouch/+bug/509695 :)
[15:51] <rmcbride> statik: yes, I saw discussion of that. I'll reassign those bugs
[16:28] <rtgz> Question: the "new" note format will be: a) tomboy note-content w/o first line or tomboy note-content with first line (which is the title) intact?
[16:29] <statik> rtgz: not sure, rodrigo__ probably knows
[16:29] <rodrigo__> rtgz, content with 1st line
[16:30] <rtgz> rodrigo__, great.
[16:31]  * rtgz is writing custom u1 sync fof *.note files to couchdb and back. The first part is ready (using direct XML copy, no transforms).
[16:32] <rtgz> btw, ubuntu one/notes generates notes with 32 byte UUID w/o dashes, while the client creates notes with uuid formatted as 8-4-4-4-12. Is there any convention on that?
[16:32] <rtgz> rodrigo__, ^
[16:33] <rodrigo__> no, no convention, it just needs to be unique
[18:41] <urbanape> jblount_1, approved, land that symlink branch
[18:42] <urbanape> sorry so late in coming
[18:43] <jblount_1> urbanape: Will do, didn't feel late for me.
[18:43] <jblount_1> also...
[19:14] <rtgz> Erm...
[19:14] <rtgz> guys, why was notebook definition left to application_annotations ?
[19:15] <rtgz> I have 89 items
[19:15] <rtgz> I mean I have 89 notes and the number keeps growing. They are nicely categorized on my local machine, but U1 shows the titles as a big unstructured list.
[19:26] <jamalta> wow
[19:26] <jamalta> the new login is hot
[19:26] <jamalta> props to you all
[19:35] <rtgz> jamalta, erm... where's the new login heat?
[19:37] <jamalta> rtgz: http://login.ubuntu.com
[19:38] <rtgz> jamalta, woooow
[19:41] <rtgz> jamalta, apart from it is shiny... erm... how do I use it to actually perform single sign on? I believe launchpad.net/~username is my openId... but there is no such info available there...
[19:41] <jamalta> rtgz:  i think that's being replaced with this
[19:41] <jamalta> if you login to login.ubuntu.com you will be logged in for all ubuntu services
[19:41] <jamalta> or maybe in the future
[19:41] <rtgz> jamalta, ah. then it makes sense
[19:41] <jamalta> i had to login to access the lp buildbot (which ended up failing anyways because i'm not a canonical employee)
[19:48] <jblount_1> jamalta, rtgz: Their testing out the new sso system with internal Canonical services before rolling it out everywhere. I don't know what the timeline is, but probably soon.
[19:49] <jamalta> jblount_1: ah cool :)
[19:50] <rtgz> the worst part of all identification things is that one has to create a nickname.... I have changed my lp nickname three times and this is not the end :)
[19:54] <rtgz> sad. notes xml generator makes "&" instead of "&amp;"s thus breaking XML parsers
[19:55] <rtgz> it will be a looong migration :-/
[20:14] <rtgz> I vote for inclusion of notebook to couchdb record type
[20:14] <rtgz> imagine a file sync service that drops all your files from all your directories into one location
[20:14] <Chipaca> I had that, once!
[20:14] <rtgz> I doubt someone would want to use such service seeing that
[20:14] <Chipaca> the location was "lost+found"
[20:15] <rtgz> Chipaca, good example.
[20:15] <Chipaca> man, I hated ext2 on that flaky power mains
[20:15] <rtgz> Imagine lost+found service that takes all your files to one location. This is what tomboy sync does at the moment in Ubuntu One.
[20:15] <rtgz> Chipaca, thanks :)
[20:16] <Chipaca> rtgz: that sounds ... suboptimal
[20:17] <rtgz> Chipaca, eeexactly. notebook name is stored inside application_annotations which is not that great by itself. But the UI displays all my notes from all my notebooks as a flat list.
[20:17] <Chipaca> rtgz: is there a bug about this?
[20:17] <rtgz> The note titles are unique, but it does not mean I need to have all my note title prefixed with some "Notebook1: A good note"-style
[20:18] <rtgz> Chipaca, it does not look like that exists. Maybe it has not got that much users ATM...
[20:18] <rtgz> I am finishing my custom sync app and will file the bug reports.
[20:19] <Chipaca> rtgz: custom sync app?
[20:19] <Chipaca> you're syncing customs?
[20:19] <Chipaca> :-p
[20:20] <rtgz> Chipaca, yep, customs and traditions. There are too many of them in the world and they are not synchronized. Need to fix that
[20:20] <rtgz> :-p
[20:20] <Chipaca> sweet
[20:20]  * Chipaca unsubscribes from ubuntu one QUICK
[20:20] <Chipaca> oh, wait, I can't really do that can I
[20:21]  * rtgz files a bug report, "Chipaca cannot unsubscribe from Ubuntu One"
[20:22] <Chipaca> no, I mean, I'm supposed to lead by example etc etc
[20:22] <Chipaca> :)
[20:22] <rtgz> sweet
[20:23] <rtgz> I don't get notebook tag from couchdb because the web ui does not put anything there. At least I haven't spent much time debugging that :)
[20:30] <rtgz> he he, gnote kills the note if it has invalid XML...
[20:57] <rtgz> wooo hoo. Bidirectional writes now work ... now I need to query couchdb for notes that are not present in local .gnote storage...
[20:57] <rtgz> and then add support for note removal...
[20:58] <rtgz> Btw, what's the this season's trend to mark object as deleted?
[21:12] <rtgz> thisfred, since you are on duty today,  what's the this season's trend to mark object as deleted?
[21:15] <thisfred> rtgz: no change there, yet:
[21:16] <thisfred> ['application_annotations']['Ubuntu One']['deleted'] = True
[21:16] <thisfred> I believe
[21:16] <thisfred> or, true, if you're speaking JSON
[21:17] <thisfred> rtgz: I don't like this is in the u1 namespace
[21:17] <thisfred> I need to bring that up on the dekstopcouch mailing list
[21:17] <rtgz> thisfred, okay... so it means that for Ubuntu One, it is deleted
[21:17] <rtgz> ah
[21:18] <thisfred> rtgz: yes, or rather, for all of desktopcouch
[21:18] <rtgz> maybe there should be... erm.. some kind of "final revision"... which is erm... deleted...
[21:18] <thisfred> everyone that goes through that API should no longer see it, unless explicitly querying for deleted content
[21:19] <thisfred> but that means putting it in the u1 namespace is a bug
[21:19] <thisfred> it's just that we did not have a better place for it
[21:19] <thisfred> we could have a "deleted" field in the root, but we don't want that, as some day we hope to really delete documents
[21:19]  * dobey removes the applet
[21:20] <rtgz> dobey, great. the icons for ubuntuone statuses are no longer needed :)
[21:20] <rtgz> ubuntuone applet statuses, i mean
[21:21] <dobey> i'll burn that bridge when i cross it :)
[21:22] <rtgz> dobey, okay, where will the end user find the info whether the files are uploaded, downloaded, dead of alive?
[21:22] <dobey> in the file manager?
[21:23] <rtgz> dobey, erm... are there UI mockups of this?
[21:23] <dobey> i suppose i should have add --fixes for all the bugs about notifications, with that branch
[21:23] <rtgz> dobey, no notifications = no bugs :)
[21:23] <dobey> rtgz: mock-ups of the file manager? no, nautilus already exists, or what you're asking, and what i'm reading as your question, not the same thing?
[21:24] <rtgz> dobey, oookay, then u1 plugin needs to get recursive info about folders
[21:24] <dobey> i don't think it does
[21:24] <rtgz> dobey, if the current status is going to be seen only via the emblems
[21:25] <dobey> if so, the toplevel folder will almost always have the "synchronizing" emblem for active users
[21:25] <dobey> and that tells them nothing about what is actually going on
[21:25] <rtgz> dobey, nautilus exists, but how would the client know that it has 300 more files to go before it reaches the nirvana (i think nirvana is used for this thing in syncdaemon)
[21:26] <dobey> the applet doesn't know about nirvana
[21:26] <rtgz> dobey, yep, the top level is just "something is being done", but if we dive into the di...
[21:26] <dobey> although i could add some kurt cobain references
[21:26] <rtgz> erm, isn't it suppose to handle arbitrary folders in Lucid?
[21:26] <dobey> rtgz: what if i have 200 directories at arbitrary levels?
[21:26] <dobey> yes
[21:28] <rtgz> but... ok, what's the current plan? :)
[21:29] <dobey> the plan was always that the applet was going away. for lucid we're writing a new "control panel" ui for ubuntu one, which will actually deal with more than just file sync
[21:29] <dobey> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-ubuntu-one-client-app
[21:29] <rtgz> dobey, okay, then what about folder emblems?
[21:29] <dobey> what about them?
[21:30] <dobey> i don't think emblems on folders are useful
[21:30] <dobey> a folder is basically just a virtual object that provides indiciation about hierarchy
[21:31] <dobey> there are other things we can do in the nautilus extension, if necessary
[21:31] <rtgz> Okay, imagine the mail client. Imagine the Inbox, Sent, Draft folders. You have 100 incoming messages, but you are now browsing the Drafts folder. A new message arrives but you are not notified in any way, there is no emblem on Inbox folder or anywhere.
[21:31] <dobey> emblems aren't the only possibility there
[21:32] <dobey> don't get me started on mail clients
[21:32] <dobey> they're a completely different problem, and they're all broken :)
[21:34] <dobey> and evolution only got emblems on folders for new messages in 2.28, before that it didn't have them
[21:35] <rtgz> dobey, okay, I am a user. I grabbed the folders from someone's usb stick somewhere and put into Ubuntu One directory. I am about to shut down the machine and leave the place and expect that my home pc will have the files there as well when I come home. Question: how do I know when to shutdown the machine?
[21:35] <rtgz> dobey, evolution has new message emblems o_O
[21:36] <rtgz> dobey, there should be some kind of "Transfers" status, i.e. file downloads/uploads, I guess...
[21:36] <dobey> rtgz: evo has new message emblems in 2.28+, yeah
[21:37] <rtgz> dobey, but, since applet is no longer with us, this needs to be done using some kind of external process...
[21:37] <dobey> rtgz: i don't think so, i think the "shutdown" thing should understand that things are happening, and give you the option to "Wait until finished before shutting down"
[21:38] <dobey> rtgz: of course, i don't think GNOME has the infrastructure to do that :(
[21:38] <rtgz> dobey, nautilus uses its own "file copy/move" stuff...
[21:38] <dobey> huh?
[21:40] <rtgz> dobey, when something big is being copied or moved, nautilus displays 'copying stuff' dialog and puts itself to the notification area.
[21:41] <dobey> yes, but what does that have to do with us?
[21:42] <dobey> we can't make nautilus pop up progress dialogs whenever something syncs in u1
[21:42] <dobey> if you think people complain about notifications....
[21:42] <dobey> i don't even want to think about what the bug reports for that would say :)
[21:42] <rtgz> dobey, yep, it's just they could have invented the "Transfers" applet :)
[21:43] <dobey> i wrote one about 6 years ago...
[21:43] <rtgz> dobey, no, no pop up dialogs, definitely :)
[21:43] <dobey> (a 'transfers' applet)
[21:43] <dobey> but, i don't think that is the right way to do it
[21:44] <rtgz> dobey, I am all for notifications, but not when it says 'Ubuntu One synchronized 0 files' :)
[21:44] <dobey> bugs are bugs
[21:44] <rtgz> dobey, which it does say when the files are removed and no new files added
[21:45] <dobey> rtgz: is that filed?
[21:45] <dobey> if it's not filed, it's not a bug. :)
[21:46] <dobey> anyway, there are some hot pretzels waiting for me to purchase and consume them. i'll brb, because i'm totally craving some pretzels, and it's almost 5 pm here already. :-/
[21:46] <dobey> brb
[21:46] <rtgz> ok :)
[21:53] <rtgz> honk for music store. Additionally, enable IPv6 so that I can switch to POP in US and finally buy the music I wanted :)
[21:55] <statik> :) rtgz, do you have any guesses how much work it would be to enable IPv6 in twisted? I know nothing about IPv6 myself
[21:55] <statik> was curious whether you've talked about it on twisted-dev list
[21:59] <rtgz> statik, i am not that familiar with twisted, atm; I have made twisted-related patches in u1 and have even read one whole page of twisted Deferred description; so, no idea, at the moment. :)
[22:01] <rtgz> statik, since NetworkManager is broken for system-wide IPv6 and KDE's networkmanager applet seems to miss IPv6 completely, this is what I am now investigating. Running the only computer with IPv6 enabled at home is not that fun. (+router, ok)
[22:07] <rtgz> but, since there are only 10% of ip addresses left, only 26 /8s remain in IANA pool, i think it will need to be addressed really fast
[22:11] <statik> interesting. i wonder if that will end up being a big push for lucid+1
[22:20] <verterok> statik: looks like there are some stuff in progress for IPv6 support in a branch: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/log/branches/tcp-ipv6-3014?rev=27251
[22:20] <verterok> and the ticket: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/3014
[22:22] <dobey> i have no idea about ipv6 with twisted
[22:23] <dobey> however, i have an alternate solution to that specific problem
[22:23] <verterok> dobey: heh
[22:24] <dobey> i should actually test that it works though
[22:25] <dobey> then again, it won't really matter
[22:25] <dobey> except for other reasons
[22:25] <dobey> since we won't be using the web vm to do oauth
[22:27] <verterok> dobey: I assumed that the solution was: stop using twisted :)
[22:27] <dobey> verterok: it is. we have no reason to use twisted in that specific case
[22:28] <verterok> dobey: oh, you mean for the oauthdesktop webserver
[22:28] <dobey> although the ipv6 issues might be a problem still for syncdaemon in the future
[22:28] <dobey> verterok: yeah
[22:28] <verterok> dobey: yes, I was thinking in syncdaemon :(
[22:28] <dobey> syncdaemon is ok right now re: ipv6 though
[22:29] <dobey> since we don't provide ipv6 resolution for *.one.ubuntu.com
[22:29] <verterok> and as workaround, there is stuff like: 6tunnel
[22:32] <dobey> there's nothing to work around though :)
[22:32] <dobey> unless you're so brilliant you decided to disable ipv4 on your machine
[22:33] <rtgz> dobey, I was brilliant to disable ipv4 on my machine... it turned out I don't have a IPv6-listening DNS and ... guessing IPv6 addresses is way beyond my capabilities...
[22:34] <dobey> rtgz: you probably don't have an ipv6 route, either :)
[22:35] <rtgz> dobey, I do :-P
[22:35] <dobey> and most things on the internet, don't do ipv6
[22:36] <rtgz> that's why I am so IPv6-talking :)
[22:37] <rtgz> dobey, actually, i am connected to IRC via IPv6 at the moment
[22:37] <dobey> cool
[22:38] <rtgz> that's why rdns points to buzz (my machine) . west (my gw) . homenet.org (free domain :) )
[22:38] <dobey> freenode does do ipv6, yeah
[22:45] <dobey> i kinda want to rename oauthdeskotp also
[22:45] <dobey> the name disturbs me
[23:12] <dobey> meh, *must* concentrate
[23:12] <wolter> Hi, can I set my ubuntuone dir to somewhere other than my home dir?
[23:14] <dobey> wolter: not currently
[23:15] <dobey> wolter: by the time lucid is ready, though, it should be possible to define which folders on your system are synchronized
[23:16] <wolter> ok
[23:16] <wolter> well, I could always make a link to it and hide the original
[23:21] <dobey> yeah, but not really the same thing :)
[23:21] <wolter> no
[23:21] <wolter> but meanwhile that will do
[23:22] <wolter> dobey, also, is it intended that one will be able to share files by just giving a link to them?
[23:22] <dobey> wolter: yes. there are some other develoeprs working on providing public file sharing support right now
[23:25] <wolter> good
[23:25] <wolter> is this being developed with python?
[23:26] <dobey> the majority of client side code is python, yes