| wolter | I think I got troy_s mad at me | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| godbyk | Oh? When? How? | 00:09 |
| wolter | Just now, I asked in the artwork channel how to change the emblem's position in an existing icon them. Next thing I know he told me to google something which didn't return relevant results, and then he just stopped talking even after I asked him something. | 00:11 |
| wolter | Now, I have not come here to wine or get you against him, just thought it would be funny to thorwil now that he pointed me to his blog a while ago. | 00:11 |
| wolter | But apparently hes not here anymore. | 00:12 |
| godbyk | Ah, maybe he just got distracted or something. | 00:12 |
| === wolter is now known as wolter-afk | ||
| === wolter-afk is now known as wolter | ||
| wolter | yeah, could be | 00:28 |
| wolter | but well, I wouldn't know | 00:28 |
| wolter | is there an agreement on how the headers should be capitalized | 01:02 |
| wolter | ? | 01:03 |
| godbyk | wolter: Apparently not. | 01:09 |
| godbyk | I noticed the other day that some are sentence-cased and others are title-cased. | 01:09 |
| godbyk | But we should decide on that and add a note to the style guide. | 01:10 |
| wolter | yes | 01:12 |
| wolter | I think sentence-case can be less annoying sometimes | 01:13 |
| wolter | But I think, as this is a book written in formal english, that all titles should be in title case | 01:13 |
| rachaelb | hi all! is there anything i can do to help with the manual? | 01:14 |
| godbyk | 'allo, rachaelb. Are there any chapters that you're particularly interested in helping to write? There is a to do list of sorts here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/#To%20Do%20List (Looks like I need to scratch a couple items off that list now). | 01:17 |
| godbyk | There are also some 'how to contribute' notes here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/#Contributions | 01:17 |
| godbyk | Otherwise, in general, feel free to poke around and see how you'd like to contribute. | 01:18 |
| rachaelb | im just having a look now | 01:18 |
| rachaelb | i can remember how difficult it was at the beginning to get my head around linux lol | 01:19 |
| rachaelb | and the usual forum answer of "rtfm" isnt necessarily very helpful! | 01:19 |
| godbyk | Good -- you can help keep us in check! | 01:19 |
| godbyk | Sometimes it's hard to figure out what people have trouble with when they're just starting out. | 01:20 |
| rachaelb | sometime its hard to fiure out even when youve been using it for a few years :( | 01:22 |
| rachaelb | ok... well i've got some time on my hands for the next couple of months | 01:24 |
| godbyk | Cool. You can also sign up for the mailing list and hang out in this IRC channel to get ideas of where to dive in. | 01:25 |
| rachaelb | id be quite happy to go thtough the incredibly unsexy aspects of indexing and providing a glossary if that helps | 01:25 |
| rachaelb | i cant imagine many people would volunteer for that! | 01:25 |
| godbyk | Heh.. probably not! | 01:25 |
| godbyk | Luckily, it's a pretty simple thing to do (well, the mechanics of it, at least). | 01:26 |
| rachaelb | i *turst* thats not a sexist comment :-/ lol! | 01:26 |
| godbyk | You just edit the .tex file, and add \index{indexme} someplace and it will automatically add an index entry and page number for indexme. | 01:26 |
| godbyk | I haven't set up the glossary yet; it's on my list of things to do. | 01:27 |
| rachaelb | ok well its pretty late here in the UK... so i'll sign up for the mailing list and be back in a few days if thats ok | 01:27 |
| godbyk | Sure thing! Thanks for your help and hopefully we'll see you around. | 01:27 |
| rachaelb | no problem - im kinda bored with answering noob questions from friends and colleagues... a decent manual for the will be a relief! | 01:28 |
| wolter | godbyk, well, he was not mad haha, he just took a long rest. | 01:28 |
| godbyk | wolter: Ha! Well, that's good. | 01:29 |
| godbyk | rachaelb: I hear ya. I have my parents, grandmother, and brother running Linux. So if I can throw a book at them, all the better! | 01:29 |
| rachaelb | ok im part of the team :-D | 01:30 |
| rachaelb | well my mum is 81 and has been a complete convert for the last 4 years | 01:30 |
| godbyk | Nice! | 01:30 |
| rachaelb | and i read somewhere that "grandmas dont use linux".... try telling that to my mom | 01:30 |
| godbyk | It's certainly helped with all the 'how do I get this virus off my computer?' questions. | 01:31 |
| godbyk | My grandma uses it and loves it. | 01:31 |
| godbyk | Especially since her grandkids can't download worms from weird websites and slow down her computer. | 01:31 |
| rachaelb | once i set it all up for her, shes fine with it | 01:31 |
| rachaelb | she even understands the problems associated with the *other* o/s | 01:32 |
| rachaelb | and was thrilled when germany told people yesterday not to use ie cos of theproblems in china | 01:32 |
| rachaelb | and was telling her firends on the phone that this didnt affect her cos she used linux | 01:32 |
| godbyk | I think that Linux is a great solution for those who just use the Internet and email. | 01:32 |
| godbyk | Cheaper than OS X and more secure than Windows. | 01:33 |
| godbyk | My mom got a virus on her Windows netbook the other day. But I've trained them not to pester me with Windows problems now. | 01:33 |
| rachaelb | prolly 4 the best | 01:34 |
| godbyk | If it's a Linux issue, I'll try to help. If it's Windows, well, you're on your own! | 01:34 |
| godbyk | (Primarily, because I haven't used Windows in such a long time that I haven't a clue how to help anymore.) | 01:34 |
| rachaelb | its nice to find someone who will help... someimtes you go into an irc room with a legitimate question jsut to be told (basically) to f*** off and work it out for yoursel | 01:35 |
| rachaelb | thats not the way to make *nixes user friendly | 01:35 |
| godbyk | Definitely not. | 01:36 |
| godbyk | I figure the more quickly I can help someone else learn how to do something, the sooner they can start teaching the next person. That means less work for me! :-) | 01:37 |
| rachaelb | absolutely... ok ive sigend up for the referecing and glossary :-D | 01:38 |
| godbyk | Cool. If you need help getting start with it, feel free to pester me sometime. | 01:38 |
| rachaelb | i will do - definitely | 01:39 |
| rachaelb | how detailed is this manual going to be? | 01:39 |
| godbyk | I'm not really sure. I'm just helping out with the formatting and code bits, not writing anything myself at the moment. | 01:40 |
| roinator | This is probably a silly question, but is it already written? | 01:41 |
| godbyk | roinator: Nope, it's still being written. | 01:41 |
| roinator | Is there some sort of "current build"? | 01:42 |
| rachaelb | i mean while its fabulous to have anything as a beginners guide, unless it also covers non-ubuntu issues like installing codecs and how to use and install thrid party software then it will still not answer most noob questions | 01:42 |
| rachaelb | @roinator: it would appear that there is a current version - yeas | 01:42 |
| manualbot | rachaelb: Error: "roinator:" is not a valid command. | 01:42 |
| rachaelb | roinator: it would appear that there is a current version - yes | 01:43 |
| godbyk | roinator: I uploaded the latest PDF here for you: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/main.pdf | 01:43 |
| roinator | Cheers...I'd like to contribute, but I am not sure if I can be of any use. I thought seeing what is currently done might be helpful. | 01:44 |
| godbyk | roinator: Sure! Feel free to poke around and if you find something you'd like to help with, dive in! | 01:45 |
| godbyk | If you'd like to help write one of the chapters, you can find the assigned author/editor for that chapter and email him/her to discuss how you can contribute. | 01:46 |
| rachaelb | yikes! that needs a *lot* of work | 01:46 |
| godbyk | The chapter authors can be found under the appropriate blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | 01:46 |
| godbyk | rachaelb: Yes, it does. The project just started 2-3 weeks ago. | 01:47 |
| rachaelb | that explains it then | 01:47 |
| rachaelb | ok its nearly 2am here | 01:47 |
| rachaelb | and i really, really need to get some zzzzzzz's in | 01:48 |
| godbyk | rachaelb: Have a good night, then! | 01:48 |
| rachaelb | night all.... and to quote a certain state governor... "i'll be back" | 01:48 |
| wolter | godbyk, how can I link to other chapters in the standard way? | 02:00 |
| wolter | I tried \label{ch:troubleshooting} but it didn't work | 02:00 |
| godbyk | wolter: Use \ref{ch:troubleshooting} or \nameref{ch:troubleshooting} | 02:00 |
| godbyk | \label{blah} creates the linked-to point. | 02:01 |
| godbyk | \ref, \pageref, and \nameref create links that take you to that \label. | 02:01 |
| wolter | godbyk, could you make a standard \chaplink{chapter-name} | 02:02 |
| wolter | so that it says for example "Chapter 9: Troubleshooting" | 02:03 |
| wolter | in bold or something | 02:03 |
| godbyk | wolter: Sure, I can do that. | 02:03 |
| godbyk | one sec. | 02:03 |
| wolter | I use those a lot, and I think other writers should as well | 02:03 |
| wolter | thanks :) | 02:03 |
| roinator | godbyk: This looks pretty damn good. I think I'll look into this more when I have a bit more time. At the moment I have an overwhelming number of questions regarding the project, and I think I should make an effort to answer a few on my own before I ask any here. Thanks for the help though. | 02:03 |
| godbyk | roinator: No problem. If you have more questions, feel free to ask here or on the mailing list. | 02:04 |
| godbyk | Your best place to look for answers is currently the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/ | 02:05 |
| godbyk | wolter: I just pushed the \chaplink command. | 02:06 |
| godbyk | Using \chaplink{ch:troubleshooting} will output "Chapter 0: Troubleshooting" | 02:06 |
| godbyk | brb | 02:07 |
| godbyk | back | 02:11 |
| wolter | thanks godbyk :) | 02:25 |
| wolter | godbyk, you're amazing :) | 03:22 |
| godbyk | heh, thanks. | 03:22 |
| wolter | I didn't know pdfs supported links | 03:24 |
| wolter | godbyk, i will let know to the list that you made this chaplink thing, alright? | 03:31 |
| wolter | but also, could you make it so that you don't have to write ch: ? | 03:32 |
| wolter | also, I see that the link only covers the chapter number and the chapter name, but clicking the preceding "Chapter" string does nothing | 03:35 |
| godbyk | brb | 03:40 |
| * humphreybc made a new ubuntu video today :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orbi31mE3r0 | 03:52 | |
| godbyk | I'm back now. | 03:55 |
| godbyk | Sorry about the delay. Was chatting with a friend who stopped by. | 03:55 |
| wolter | godbyk, dont worry :) | 04:00 |
| humphreybc | so what's new in the land of the manual? | 04:23 |
| wolter | humphreybc, the new version of chapter 5 | 04:23 |
| wolter | take a look at the pull to see if you like it more | 04:23 |
| wolter | if not i will revert | 04:23 |
| humphreybc | cool | 04:23 |
| humphreybc | where did all the content go? | 04:24 |
| humphreybc | so you changed the colours of the sections/subsections? | 04:24 |
| wolter | to software-packaging/software-packaging-original.tex | 04:24 |
| wolter | i didn't | 04:24 |
| humphreybc | oh okay | 04:24 |
| humphreybc | so what's new? | 04:24 |
| wolter | its a complete rewrite | 04:24 |
| wolter | undone, of course | 04:25 |
| humphreybc | what was the reasoning for the rewrite? | 04:25 |
| wolter | well, i just read the ubuntu help center and thought that my approach was not straight enough | 04:26 |
| wolter | to that people that think that installing software in ubuntu is the worst part of.. ubuntu | 04:26 |
| godbyk | wolter: Okay, if you forget the ch: prefix on the label you pass to \chaplink, it will add it for you. | 04:31 |
| godbyk | Also, I've fixed it so that the entire string (including "Chapter") is a hyperlink. | 04:32 |
| humphreybc | wolter: fair enough, you're the author ;) | 04:32 |
| godbyk | I'm going to try to find a way to detect if a label exists so I can make the \chaplink command a bit smarter (i.e., not always prepend ch: if the naked label exists). | 04:32 |
| wolter | godbyk, can i say you're awesome again? | 04:32 |
| godbyk | In practice, however, please include the ch: prefix on chapter labels whenever you use them. | 04:32 |
| wolter | ok | 04:33 |
| wolter | will do then | 04:33 |
| nisshh | hey guys | 04:34 |
| godbyk | Hey, nisshh. | 04:35 |
| nisshh | im just getting back to writing my chapter now | 04:35 |
| wolter | humphreybc, how do you like my new version? | 04:36 |
| nisshh | but first i need to know what the hell is and isnt getting included in it | 04:36 |
| wolter | should I keep writing it, or continue with the other one? | 04:36 |
| humphreybc | nisshh: lol | 04:36 |
| humphreybc | fire some questions | 04:36 |
| nisshh | kk | 04:36 |
| humphreybc | wolter: looks good! | 04:36 |
| nisshh | what happened to some of chapter 6 being included? | 04:37 |
| nisshh | and is my chapter 7 now actaully chapter 8 or something? | 04:37 |
| nisshh | also what happened to cmd and security merging? | 04:37 |
| humphreybc | kk | 04:39 |
| humphreybc | cmd and security aren't merged anymore | 04:39 |
| humphreybc | your chapter 7 is still chapter 7 | 04:39 |
| humphreybc | we decided to include updating/upgrading in the last chapter of the "first half" | 04:39 |
| humphreybc | instead of putting it in the advanced section | 04:40 |
| wolter | nisshh, wow you've been out a whole piece of time :) | 04:40 |
| humphreybc | haha | 04:40 |
| nisshh | ok good i understand more or less now | 04:40 |
| nisshh | wolter: yes thats what 4 holidays in a row does to you | 04:40 |
| wolter | oh yes i understand haha | 04:41 |
| wolter | it happened to me on christmas | 04:41 |
| wolter | and then on new year | 04:41 |
| nisshh | should i just go with whats currently in the ToC on the wiki | 04:41 |
| humphreybc | nisshh yes | 04:42 |
| nisshh | hehe ok | 04:42 |
| humphreybc | Unless you think there is anyhing to add/remove | 04:42 |
| nisshh | sure thing | 04:42 |
| humphreybc | oh and don't make it overly detailed - we are changing sort of to a Quick Start guide, so overall we need to watch page count. And the advanced stuff is least important to a new user | 04:42 |
| nisshh | is our irc chan working alright yet? | 04:43 |
| nisshh | yea ok | 04:43 |
| humphreybc | irc chan? | 04:43 |
| nisshh | yes | 04:43 |
| humphreybc | what do you mean? | 04:44 |
| nisshh | i saw the message on the mailing list about changing the channel for the meeting the other day | 04:44 |
| nisshh | due to problems with this one | 04:45 |
| humphreybc | oh right | 04:45 |
| humphreybc | we still dont have a logbot | 04:45 |
| humphreybc | but MootBot is back | 04:45 |
| humphreybc | They just left for some reason and never returned | 04:46 |
| nisshh | yep | 04:46 |
| wolter | humphreybc, how about ubuntulog, isn't he logging? | 04:46 |
| humphreybc | oh | 04:46 |
| humphreybc | didn't notice him! :P | 04:46 |
| humphreybc | roinator, for some reason youtube replies aren't working | 04:46 |
| humphreybc | the theme is elementary and the dock is docky :) | 04:47 |
| roinator | ahh ok...cool | 04:47 |
| nisshh | hehe | 04:47 |
| roinator | I didn't know you could make docky look like that. | 04:47 |
| humphreybc | it's not Gnome Do docky, but docky as a separate application | 04:47 |
| humphreybc | they're splitting them up, this is the development version | 04:47 |
| roinator | Ohhhhh | 04:47 |
| humphreybc | it's very neat | 04:47 |
| roinator | does it still do the gnome-do ish stuff? | 04:48 |
| nisshh | i think only the gnome-do version of docky does that | 04:48 |
| nisshh | the actual seperate version doesnt | 04:48 |
| nisshh | i think... | 04:49 |
| roinator | yeah...That would make sense, but I want a more variable appearance in gnome-do docky...so I was hoping. | 04:49 |
| godbyk | I documented the \chaplink command on the Style Guide. | 04:50 |
| nisshh | i need to read through all the new stuff on the styleguide now lol | 04:50 |
| nisshh | there is ALOT | 04:50 |
| humphreybc | roinator: It can't do the Gnome Do stuff but you can get it working with Zeitgeist and Gnome Activity Journal | 04:51 |
| godbyk | nisshh: Yeah, and I need to add more sometime. | 04:52 |
| humphreybc | And it has plugins like controlling banshee etc etc | 04:52 |
| godbyk | For instance, should chapter titles use title case or sentence case? | 04:52 |
| godbyk | How about sections and subheadings? | 04:52 |
| nisshh | title case i reckon | 04:53 |
| wolter | all kinds of headings should follow the same style in my opinion | 04:55 |
| nisshh | wolter: good point | 04:56 |
| wolter | that being title case : | 04:57 |
| wolter | ) | 04:57 |
| wolter | as it is formal english the language we are writing in | 04:57 |
| humphreybc | I don't see a reason why we need to capitalize every word in headings | 05:02 |
| godbyk | I'm okay with it either way, but we should settle on one and be consistent. | 05:03 |
| godbyk | I think that sentence case is easier to read a bit more informal than title case. | 05:03 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: There was another discussion that took place earlier about establishing the tone of the manual. How formal/informal should it be? What kind of voice do we want to use? Should it be staid and serious? Light and fun? Quirky? | 05:07 |
| humphreybc | Somewhere in between? | 05:13 |
| humphreybc | We don't want to come across as Microsoft, boring and serious. But we don't want to come across as amateur. It needs to hold a "conversation" with the reader, and make them feel comfortable with what they're doing. | 05:13 |
| humphreybc | I think the tone that I set in the Prologue and Chapter 1 is fairly good | 05:13 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | ooh. | 05:23 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-Manual-Needs-You-Help-132478.shtml | 05:23 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | this really helped the survey | 05:23 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | we're at 674 responses | 05:23 |
| godbyk | cool | 05:23 |
| godbyk | Did we get more Windows/Mac users this time? | 05:24 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | getting there | 05:24 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | 42% windows so far | 05:24 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | 40% ubuntu | 05:24 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | need more mac users, grr. | 05:24 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | i already tried asking in #macosx and ##windows | 05:24 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | several times, in fact | 05:24 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | and asked my pal who works at Apple to spread the link | 05:25 |
| godbyk | Have any of you read any of Kathy Sierra's blog entries or essays? | 05:27 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | i wonder if i can download the raw data and do my own segmentation analysis, so i can see specifically mac vs windows vs linux users' perspectives | 05:28 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | godbyk: no; link pls? | 05:28 |
| godbyk | IlyaHaykinson: It'd be good to have the full dataset instead of just aggregate data. Then we could do more in-depth analyses. | 05:28 |
| godbyk | http://headrush.typepad.com/ | 05:29 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | btw, holding steady at about a third wanting the ability to print out the manual | 05:29 |
| godbyk | A lot of what she says applies to our manual. | 05:29 |
| godbyk | We could also publish the book via Lulu (free to publish), and people could order a printed and bound copy of it, if they didn't want to print their own. | 05:30 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | yes, we could, and definitely think we should. | 05:32 |
| godbyk | I see no reason why we shouldn't. | 05:32 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | though at this point i think there is a risk we will not hit the deadline. | 05:32 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | there are a lot of early chapters with little progress | 05:32 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | but, thanks to you, the manual is starting to -look- professional :) | 05:33 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | re that blog, yeah, interesting. though i feel that a lot of her advice is pretty general | 05:35 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | not that it's necessarily self-evident, but that it's ... just good common sense. and not specific knowledge. | 05:35 |
| godbyk | IlyaHaykinson: A lot of it is, yeah. | 05:36 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | please digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Manual_Needs_Your_Help | 05:36 |
| godbyk | dugg | 05:37 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | i can't believe how many people read the news.softpedia.com page | 05:50 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | the link is more than half way down the page, under a Linux heading. | 05:51 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | ah. it's got a pretty high alexa rank | 05:51 |
| wolter | hm.. who is motang and why does he sound familiar? | 05:57 |
| nisshh | ill be gone for an hour or two, if anyone needs me just email me instead | 06:05 |
| wolter | it will be hard to live with docky and gnome-do as different apps | 06:05 |
| wolter | or memoserv | 06:06 |
| wolter | :) | 06:06 |
| wolter | nobody uses that, but me | 06:06 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | wolter: email works just as well, imho :) | 06:08 |
| wolter | IlyaHaykinson_, yeah well, in my opinion i have enough emails with the ubuntu list :) | 06:09 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | heh. | 06:10 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | hm, survey still ticking up. seems like we're at ~12 responses per hour. | 06:18 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | which isn't bad. it means that if it lasts (and it won't, of course), we'd be at 1000 responses within a day. | 06:18 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | Ha! someone wants our manual to describe "applications towards the creation of giant space dinosaur robots" :-) | 06:22 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | we better get right on it | 06:22 |
| pererik87 | most of them dont know about UHC | 06:32 |
| wolter | pererik87, you still here? | 07:10 |
| humphreybc | hehehe did you guys see the new artwork updates? | 07:12 |
| wolter | humphreybc, of the coverpage? | 07:12 |
| humphreybc | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork | 07:12 |
| wolter | well you've been off for a long while I say | 07:13 |
| wolter | i have now | 07:15 |
| wolter | this kolorguild guy keeps working on new and new and new and new proposals | 07:15 |
| humphreybc | um regarding Lulu: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1378816&page=3 | 07:15 |
| humphreybc | post $24 | 07:15 |
| humphreybc | #24 * | 07:15 |
| humphreybc | I know nothing about it | 07:16 |
| wolter | oh i irc-know that guy | 07:16 |
| wolter | lol | 07:16 |
| wolter | hes always in the #unity-coders channel i told you about | 07:16 |
| humphreybc | right | 07:17 |
| humphreybc | lol @ "We just made RTFM a whole lot better" | 07:19 |
| wolter | yeah | 07:20 |
| humphreybc | what do you guys think about KolorGuild's new proposals? | 07:20 |
| wolter | excellent photo manip | 07:20 |
| wolter | I think they're a bit off the style we want | 07:20 |
| humphreybc | true | 07:21 |
| humphreybc | but they're different, and interesting. | 07:21 |
| humphreybc | new ideas are good :) | 07:21 |
| wolter | well yes, thats true | 07:21 |
| humphreybc | it's going to be soo damn hard to choose one | 07:21 |
| wolter | but I think they're too cluttered up | 07:21 |
| wolter | yes, indeed | 07:21 |
| wolter | but I think everybody is going for vish's with my lynx :) | 07:22 |
| * humphreybc is reading the questionnaire thread and the latest responses. I'm very pleased that most of what is being suggested is already being planned for the manual :) | 07:22 | |
| humphreybc | yup | 07:22 |
| wolter | kolorguild has good ideas, but I think he needs to comply a little more with the style | 07:22 |
| humphreybc | I think vish's could use some more work though | 07:22 |
| humphreybc | your lynx is fantastic though wotler | 07:22 |
| humphreybc | wolter* | 07:22 |
| wolter | thanks :) | 07:22 |
| humphreybc | it's too bad we can't get everyone together in a room to brainstorm | 07:22 |
| wolter | oh, don't you use tab completion for nickks? | 07:22 |
| wolter | yeah well, with the meeting's new time setting i think we could talk about it in a meeting | 07:23 |
| humphreybc | oh for christ sake I didn't realise pidgin supported it till now. | 07:23 |
| humphreybc | indeed | 07:23 |
| wolter | humphreybc, don't you think one meeting a week is very little? | 07:23 |
| wolter | supported what? | 07:23 |
| humphreybc | tab completion | 07:23 |
| humphreybc | too little? | 07:23 |
| wolter | oh haha | 07:23 |
| humphreybc | you mean we should have meetings more often!? | 07:23 |
| wolter | yeah, not often enough i mean | 07:23 |
| wolter | hahaha | 07:23 |
| wolter | well maybe twice a weak | 07:24 |
| humphreybc | !! | 07:24 |
| wolter | i mean, this thing is going fast | 07:24 |
| humphreybc | true | 07:24 |
| wolter | but its just an idea | 07:24 |
| humphreybc | but most things we decide on in IRC | 07:24 |
| wolter | what are your comments on it? | 07:24 |
| humphreybc | our team communication is amazing | 07:24 |
| humphreybc | there are always active discussions in IRC, the mailing list is always busy, the wiki is always being changed etc and we have proper meetings once a week. I think we talk more than any other project | 07:24 |
| wolter | I like this team a lot you know | 07:25 |
| humphreybc | haha so do I | 07:25 |
| humphreybc | our team is awesome | 07:25 |
| wolter | Nobody is like that typical linux-consumed dude that tries to make everyone else look like a fool | 07:25 |
| humphreybc | ? | 07:25 |
| wolter | haha, i guess you haven't been in many irc channels | 07:26 |
| humphreybc | not really | 07:26 |
| wolter | if you go to #linux or #c channel, you'll find plenty of those | 07:26 |
| wolter | sometimes you trigger they're anger without knowing | 07:26 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: you missed it when i said it earlier, but the survey's picked up thanks to a news.softpedia.com mention and some diggs | 07:26 |
| wolter | just saying the wrong words will do | 07:26 |
| wolter | lol.. "some" | 07:26 |
| wolter | like 400! | 07:26 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | currently at 717 responses | 07:26 |
| humphreybc | yep Ilya don't worry I scroll up and read what's been said :) | 07:27 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | ah, nice | 07:27 |
| humphreybc | that's amazing, how are the stats looking? | 07:27 |
| humphreybc | any interesting trends that we haven't accounted for? | 07:27 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | good. short summary: need to cover software installation really well; printing; wireless and other networking | 07:27 |
| wolter | oh humphreybc, the graphics you showed in your video are based off the forum thread right? | 07:27 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | open office for the apps | 07:28 |
| humphreybc | wolter: yeah it was the only usage example of spreadsheet i had lying around | 07:28 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | as soon as we hit a thousand i'll prepare a good summary | 07:28 |
| wolter | Lol, I don't know what people don't understand about openoffice | 07:28 |
| humphreybc | fantastic work Ilya, truly well done. :) | 07:28 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | and post that, as well as the raw data and the site's own summary data | 07:28 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | interestingly there's little correlation so far between which OS people use and what they want to see in the manual | 07:28 |
| humphreybc | Well wolter I think it's more that OpenOffice is rather a large app with many settings, and it has three or more programs | 07:29 |
| humphreybc | awesome | 07:29 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | except some thigns. like Windows people who've never used Ubuntu don't place a lot of value on covering printing | 07:29 |
| humphreybc | hmm that is interesting | 07:29 |
| wolter | well, it has like 5 | 07:29 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | but people who have used it rate printing pretty high (meaning they had trouble) | 07:29 |
| humphreybc | indeed | 07:29 |
| humphreybc | crap | 07:29 |
| humphreybc | what are we doing about Ch 4? | 07:29 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | i think chapters 1, 2, and 4 are in trouble right now. | 07:30 |
| humphreybc | chapter 1? | 07:30 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | that's installation, right? | 07:30 |
| humphreybc | yea | 07:30 |
| humphreybc | that's my chapter | 07:30 |
| humphreybc | alright maybe it's time I sent a motivational email to the ml | 07:30 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | yup. you need to make some progress on it :-) | 07:30 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | at the same time, i think that's an easier one | 07:31 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | mainly because the ubuntu folks have done an excellent job making a guided installation wizard that takes care of a lot of problems. | 07:31 |
| humphreybc | true | 07:31 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | mainly i think you need to a) pretend that you're a windows user, with a.1) a live CD in hand, a.2) a link to ubuntu.com and a blank CD-R disk | 07:31 |
| wolter | I could help on installation chapter | 07:32 |
| wolter | humphreybc, would you say I should rather continue my old chap5 or develop the new one? | 07:32 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | b) walk them through the live cd process, and then theinstallation | 07:32 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | step by step (screen by screen) | 07:32 |
| humphreybc | wolter perhaps help on chapter 4 | 07:32 |
| humphreybc | yup | 07:32 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | wolter: i think you have made some great progress on chap 5... | 07:32 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | but i think it will need a lot more content still... | 07:33 |
| wolter | IlyaHaykinson_, with the new version of it? | 07:33 |
| wolter | IlyaHaykinson_, yes, indeed | 07:33 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | yeah, i think the new version is a step in the right direction | 07:33 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | but you need to get in depth on installing software using the software center, and make that your focus | 07:33 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | there are a lot of people in the survey talking about software installation | 07:33 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | i don't know if it's the majority or not -- it was in the fill-in response, so it's hard to quantify -- but packages and software center etc were frequent mentions | 07:34 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | i recommend actually walking the user through the application, pretty much screen by screen, button-click by button-click | 07:34 |
| wolter | i think its the majority | 07:35 |
| wolter | at least thats all i read when I look at the thread | 07:35 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: chapter 4 is a big, big deal. i think you need to split it up between more like 4 people and have them start making serious progress. | 07:35 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | wolter: i mean the questionpro.com survey, with 700 responses | 07:35 |
| wolter | I don't know if we should provide a "In this chapter you will learn: <bullets>" in some chapters | 07:35 |
| wolter | IlyaHaykinson_, oh | 07:36 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | wolter: no need to have the bullets, in my opinion. they will have that with the table of contents, if they need it. | 07:36 |
| wolter | IlyaHaykinson_, goood point :) | 07:36 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | wolter: and people do a good job of scanning the headings even when looking at the chapter itself, anyway. people are good scrollers these days :) | 07:36 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | in general, and i don't mean to sound as alarmist as i might come off, i think we're not on track right now. we're 20 days from our alpha deadline when we're supposed to have most content written. | 07:37 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | i know that i've got my work cut out for me with chap3, and i -think- i'll finish or get close. but we need to be making close to a page a day progress on chapters 2 and 4 as well, for sure. | 07:38 |
| godbyk | When I published a book through lulu.com, I didn't put an ISBN on it, so I didn't encounter problems there. | 07:38 |
| godbyk | (Just catching up on the backlog of chatter here. :-)) | 07:40 |
| humphreybc | IlyaHaykinson, I agree. I'll finish off chapter 1 and start on chapter 4. | 07:40 |
| humphreybc | I'll need some help thoguh | 07:40 |
| godbyk | Do we want our screenshots to have captions? | 07:40 |
| humphreybc | yea | 07:40 |
| humphreybc | i think so | 07:40 |
| godbyk | (I'm going to make a \TODOscreenshot command or similar.) | 07:40 |
| humphreybc | we can steal stuff from the doc team wiki for chapter 4 | 07:41 |
| humphreybc | do you guys think we should split chapter 4 up into two chapters? | 07:42 |
| godbyk | What license is the manual under? (So I can toss together a copyright page.) | 07:42 |
| godbyk | I'm not sure what Preferences refers to, but it doesn't seem related to hardware. | 07:43 |
| humphreybc | Creative Commons Share Alike | 07:43 |
| godbyk | Some of the chapter titles are a little odd, too. | 07:43 |
| humphreybc | how do I do an internal chapter link now? | 07:43 |
| humphreybc | meh the chapter titles can be fine tuned later | 07:43 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: You can say \chaplink{ch:blah} and it'll print "Chapter 0: Blah" | 07:43 |
| humphreybc | and does that link to that chapter? | 07:44 |
| godbyk | Yeppers. | 07:44 |
| godbyk | It's magic -- it does everything! :-) | 07:44 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | re chapter 4... i think we can keep it as one chapter for now, since a lot of hardware and preferences go hand in hand. | 07:45 |
| humphreybc | so I go "\chaplink{ch:learning-more} ? | 07:45 |
| godbyk | Exactly. | 07:45 |
| humphreybc | sweetbix | 07:45 |
| * humphreybc hacks on chapter 1 | 07:45 | |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | but i suggest reorganizing the chapter a bit... i guess we can do that once we figure out who'll be writing it. | 07:45 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: i suggest you don't touch chap4... between chap1 and other work on your plate, i think you've got your hands full. | 07:45 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | for now at least. | 07:46 |
| wolter | haha, godbyk could you make a fun-fact notecallout type of thing? | 07:46 |
| wolter | if you all agree, of course | 07:46 |
| godbyk | wolter: What kind of fun facts do you have? | 07:46 |
| humphreybc | hmm yeah Ilya that is probably wise advice. Who are we going to get to write chapter 4? | 07:46 |
| wolter | like "fun-fact: Deb packages are inherited from Debian: Ubuntu's father Linux distribution" | 07:46 |
| godbyk | At the moment, chapter 4 sounds like a catch-all. | 07:47 |
| wolter | well, maybe its not that important | 07:47 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | well, let's see how people respond to your email... if there's no constructive response within 24 hrs, i would put out a call for N people to help with it. | 07:47 |
| humphreybc | we can utilize the existing wiki docs for chapter 4 | 07:47 |
| godbyk | wolter: I'd just mention it in a parenthetical comment, probably. | 07:47 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | some of the docs are OK. but i'm finding that a lot of the docs are not really all that helpful. | 07:47 |
| humphreybc | we aren't using much of their content thus far | 07:47 |
| humphreybc | true | 07:47 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | the networking docs were kind of like "1. open this screen (detailed explanation which screen). 2. enter the correct settings. 3. click OK" | 07:48 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | and a user would be like "wtf" to #2 | 07:48 |
| humphreybc | true | 07:48 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | hm, the updated make file doesn't seem to notice changes | 07:49 |
| godbyk | I haven't looked at much of the text of the manual so far, so this may be what's planned/done.. but it's probably handy to have a "How do I...?" type thing.. more task-oriented instead of application-oriented. | 07:50 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | godbyk: for the applications, it's exactly that way | 07:50 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | see the suggested order of the chapter at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Blueprints/DefaultApps | 07:50 |
| humphreybc | how's image insertion going | 07:51 |
| humphreybc | ? | 07:51 |
| humphreybc | do we have support for that yet? | 07:51 |
| godbyk | IlyaHaykinson: cool | 07:51 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: What images do you want to put in? | 07:51 |
| humphreybc | see chapter 1 | 07:52 |
| humphreybc | just as a test image | 07:52 |
| godbyk | IlyaHaykinson: re: Makefile, yeah, it's not keyed to notice chapter changes atm. I need to fix that. | 07:52 |
| godbyk | In fact, I'll do that now. | 07:52 |
| humphreybc | okay guys, tell me some cons of the LiveCD | 07:52 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: Short answer, is yeah, you can put in images.. Just do a \includegraphics[width=\linewidth]{blah.png} | 07:53 |
| humphreybc | for the "couple of things to keep in mind, however" part of that section | 07:53 |
| godbyk | longer answer depends on what exactly you want. :-) | 07:53 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: It's slow? | 07:53 |
| humphreybc | right | 07:53 |
| humphreybc | i've mentioned that | 07:53 |
| humphreybc | else? | 07:53 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | we need to do the same section planning to chap2, 4, and to some degree 5 (wolter, the new version still jumps around between the advanced (locks, apt, etc) and the core gui stuff with software center) | 07:54 |
| humphreybc | yeah 4 is all over the place | 07:54 |
| humphreybc | Ilya do you want to help with that | 07:54 |
| humphreybc | ? | 07:54 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: i would say the main disadvantage is that you can't save changes, and thus can't test with all the latest updates or with non-default drivers | 07:55 |
| * humphreybc is downloading the lucid alpha 2 in test drive so he can install it | 07:55 | |
| humphreybc | okay, now, disadvantages of using Wubi? | 07:55 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: i will try to take a crack at the outline tomorrow. | 07:55 |
| * IlyaHaykinson_ never used Wubi... | 07:55 | |
| wolter | IlyaHaykinson_, so you say I should avoid talking about apt and those things? | 07:56 |
| wolter | the subsection says its an insight, but I could get rid of it. However, i think the new users *have* to know, even if just a little, about what happens under the hod | 07:57 |
| wolter | hood* | 07:57 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | wolter: I wouldn't mention it at all. novices don't -need- to know, they just know that they hit the install button in the software center and there's a progress bar and the thing installs :) | 07:57 |
| wolter | IlyaHaykinson_, hm.. ok | 07:58 |
| wolter | I will ommit then :) | 07:58 |
| godbyk | Okay, I've updated (and pushed) the Makefile, so that if you edit a chapter, it will regen the pdf. | 07:58 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | maybe as a \advanced{}, during the discussion of Synaptic (which should itself be short, in my opinion, since novice users shouldn't need it very often), you can have a quick mention that there are other tools to install thigns like aptitude and apt, or something. | 07:58 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | godbyk: thank you. | 07:58 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | quick question | 07:58 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | what's the italics command? | 07:58 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | i thought it was \textem... but clearly i'm wrong | 07:58 |
| wolter | \textit{} | 07:58 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | ah. thank wolter | 07:59 |
| godbyk | IlyaHaykinson: What are you using italics for? | 07:59 |
| godbyk | If it's for emphasis, use \emph{blah}. | 07:59 |
| wolter | so, what is the agreement on the heading format? sentence cased or title cased? | 07:59 |
| humphreybc | Test Drive lets you install Ubuntu right? It doesn't do it for you? | 07:59 |
| wolter | Test Drive? | 07:59 |
| humphreybc | Test Drive, it's a development project to make testing ubuntu versions easier | 07:59 |
| humphreybc | https://edge.launchpad.net/testdrive | 08:00 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | ah, that's why i was thinking "em", it's the \emph. | 08:00 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | if \emph is for italics, is there an equivalent "meaningful" command for bolding? | 08:00 |
| godbyk | IlyaHaykinson: Nope, because bold should almost never be used. | 08:00 |
| wolter | brb | 08:01 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | gotcha. except in our manual, with menu and appplication names etc | 08:01 |
| godbyk | IlyaHaykinson: Yeah, but we have our own commands for formatting those. | 08:01 |
| godbyk | Authors should (probably) never have to use \textbf. | 08:01 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | i know \application... is there one for menu options? | 08:01 |
| godbyk | Yep | 08:01 |
| humphreybc | wait | 08:01 |
| humphreybc | fill me in on these new commands? | 08:02 |
| humphreybc | why no \textbf? | 08:02 |
| godbyk | Er, maybe there isn't yet. Let me look | 08:02 |
| godbyk | So far I've made \button, \tab, \dropdown (for combo boxes I think), \nav for menus.. | 08:02 |
| godbyk | What am I missing? | 08:02 |
| wolter | b | 08:03 |
| godbyk | (And the formatting for those may change, right now most of them are just equivalent to \textbf.) | 08:03 |
| wolter | godbyk, thats excellent work | 08:03 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: Because if we want to change the formatting of all buttons, for instance, we can. | 08:03 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | godbyk: perfect. i think you also need one for a text field | 08:03 |
| wolter | godbyk, labels | 08:03 |
| wolter | godbyk, and terms | 08:03 |
| wolter | like, terms to define | 08:03 |
| humphreybc | wait where are we using buttons? | 08:04 |
| humphreybc | and drop down menus? | 08:04 |
| humphreybc | this is a PDF right? | 08:04 |
| godbyk | wolter: For terms, I think we'll incorporate it into a glossary, so I'll do something fancy there (codewise). | 08:04 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: Just to format the *names* of buttons. | 08:04 |
| wolter | godbyk, ok, but how should i emphasize new terms? | 08:04 |
| godbyk | Like: Click the \button{OK} button. | 08:04 |
| godbyk | wolter: For now, use \textit and I can fix it when I've written a new command. | 08:05 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | wolter is right. i need to mention things like DHCP | 08:05 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | and right now i say \textbf{DHCP} | 08:05 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | but would be nice to say \term{DHCP} | 08:05 |
| wolter | yeah :) | 08:05 |
| godbyk | IlyaHaykinson: Yeah, I'll write a command to handle all that stuff. | 08:05 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | also... let's have a \menuoption{} | 08:05 |
| humphreybc | all of this stuff needs to be documented somewhere and the authors need to be told | 08:06 |
| godbyk | The glossary stuff is a bit funky 'cause there was recently a new package written for that, but it's not in the TeXLive 2007 distribution (which is what you have installed in the Ubuntu repositories). | 08:06 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | godbyk: another one: \checkbox | 08:06 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: I'm working on a style-guide.pdf so it's not barfed all over the wiki (and because it allows for better formatting). | 08:06 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | does one need to escape ampersands? | 08:07 |
| godbyk | yes. | 08:07 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | \&? | 08:07 |
| godbyk | Use \& | 08:07 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | thx | 08:07 |
| humphreybc | awesome | 08:07 |
| godbyk | Btw, I assume most authors are non-American? But we're writing using American-style English, right? | 08:08 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | godbyk: this is in line with the ubuntu docs guidelines. | 08:09 |
| godbyk | That's cool. I was just wondering for style-guide purposes. | 08:09 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | godbyk: another one should imho be \windowtitle{blah} which by default formats as ``blah'' | 08:09 |
| humphreybc | are we using \button just for keyboard keys or for on screen buttons as well that are clicked? | 08:09 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: \button is for on-screen button controls | 08:09 |
| godbyk | There are some details that non-Americans may be unaware of, that I can mention. (Like punctuation and quotation marks.) | 08:10 |
| humphreybc | what are keys? | 08:10 |
| humphreybc | \key? | 08:10 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | dunno if we have one. \userinput? | 08:10 |
| godbyk | There's a keystroke package we can use that makes them look like keys.. | 08:10 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | oh goodness. i think that would look horrible. | 08:10 |
| humphreybc | yea | 08:10 |
| humphreybc | that's not really necessary | 08:11 |
| godbyk | http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/keystroke/key-test.pdf | 08:11 |
| humphreybc | can you make a command for \keystroke or something so I can use that | 08:11 |
| godbyk | Yep | 08:11 |
| humphreybc | cool is it going to be called \keystroke? | 08:11 |
| * humphreybc finds himself having to use more than one workspace for the first time ever | 08:12 | |
| wolter | whats the floating text block for defining terms? | 08:12 |
| godbyk | Just use the \notecallout[Definition]{Blah blah blah...} command for now. | 08:12 |
| godbyk | I still have to play with some things to get the glossary and term definition stuff working. | 08:13 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: \keystroke is good for key presses, yeah. Like "Press \keystroke{Enter}." | 08:13 |
| humphreybc | neat | 08:13 |
| humphreybc | drop down boxes are? | 08:14 |
| godbyk | \dropdown | 08:14 |
| humphreybc | ok | 08:14 |
| wolter | godbyk, also a \section{} thing | 08:14 |
| wolter | to link to sections inside chapters | 08:14 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | ok. i think i'm done for the night. | 08:14 |
| wolter | or mention | 08:14 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | just pushed more wireless connection stuff... i think it's time to move on to firefox | 08:14 |
| wolter | maybe \seclink | 08:15 |
| godbyk | wolter: k | 08:15 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | godbyk: in the makefile, can it be chaptername/*.tex as dependencies? | 08:16 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | for long chapters we're breaking them out as separate files per section, which means that the chapter file itself is like 5 lines long | 08:17 |
| godbyk | IlyaHaykinson: Sure. | 08:18 |
| humphreybc | radio buttons? | 08:18 |
| IlyaHaykinson_ | ok, l8r folks. | 08:19 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: Oh, sure, after I just pushed! :-) | 08:20 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: Okay, \radiobutton is there now, too. | 08:21 |
| godbyk | And with that, I'm gonna go to bed. | 08:22 |
| godbyk | If you have more stuff you want me to add, just note it here or email me at <godbyk@gmail.com> | 08:22 |
| humphreybc | Do you think it's a good idea to include the "specify manual partions" or should I just say that's for advanced users only? | 08:23 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: I'd include it. | 08:23 |
| humphreybc | the two options "Install Ubuntu side by side and choose at each startup" or "Erase entire disk" should be satisfactory for most? | 08:23 |
| godbyk | Especially for Windows users who want to run Windows and Linux side-by-side. | 08:23 |
| humphreybc | but won't the option automatically do that for em? | 08:24 |
| godbyk | humphreybc: Hmm.. Maybe. I don't know how well the auto side-by-side option works, I guess. That didn't exist when I started. | 08:24 |
| godbyk | The manual option is good if they don't want to give up as much (or as little) space as the auto option would choose. | 08:24 |
| humphreybc | godbyk, I just pushed it through but I think I broke it. Could you have a look? | 08:46 |
| wolter | godbyk, how do i link to a section? | 08:54 |
| humphreybc | oh wait godbyk has gone to bed | 09:02 |
| humphreybc | crap the whole thing is fairly broke | 09:04 |
| wolter | lol | 09:05 |
| wolter | what did you break? | 09:05 |
| wolter | i haven't downloaded your push | 09:05 |
| humphreybc | wolter, is there a subsubsubsection? | 09:08 |
| wolter | I think there is | 09:09 |
| wolter | but thats the lowest level | 09:09 |
| wolter | there is, but has no format | 09:09 |
| wolter | it looks like normal text, just checked. | 09:09 |
| humphreybc | dw fixed it | 09:09 |
| humphreybc | i'll push again in a sec | 09:09 |
| humphreybc | wow whoever has been working on chap 3 is doing awesome | 09:12 |
| humphreybc | tell me what you think about the work i've done on the installation chapter | 09:16 |
| humphreybc | dammit do you know how to separate things into a new line? | 09:16 |
| wolter | sorry, i was busy | 09:16 |
| wolter | what do you mean with that? | 09:17 |
| wolter | wow, thats a big chapter | 09:18 |
| wolter | and IlyaHaykinson is doing it as far as I know | 09:18 |
| wolter | Now, whoever is working on chap5 is making tremendous work too :) | 09:18 |
| humphreybc | haha | 09:19 |
| humphreybc | i mean like a line gap | 09:19 |
| humphreybc | for giving instructions | 09:21 |
| humphreybc | but when you don't want to use bullet points | 09:21 |
| humphreybc | or lists | 09:21 |
| wolter | Still don't understand very well | 09:23 |
| wolter | like a horizontal line? | 09:23 |
| humphreybc | kinda | 09:28 |
| humphreybc | just like typing something, then pressing enter twice | 09:28 |
| humphreybc | to insert a blank line to break things up | 09:28 |
| wolter | oh | 09:31 |
| wolter | i think it was \blank | 09:31 |
| wolter | I think that the author of command-line is not very fit to writing about it | 09:32 |
| wolter | anyway, bye humphreybc, I have too sleepp | 09:32 |
| wolter | jam session tomorrow with some friends :) | 09:32 |
| wolter | we're going to play "horse with no name - america", presumably | 09:32 |
| humphreybc | haha that's easy! | 09:34 |
| humphreybc | just pushed | 09:38 |
| humphreybc | you should pull and see the changes | 09:38 |
| humphreybc | Wolter did you try linking to a section? | 09:55 |
| humphreybc | Because something is broken now and it says on Page 17 which is your chapter :) | 09:56 |
| * humphreybc emailed some feedback from Martin Owens to the team | 10:23 | |
| pererik87 | was he the UHC guy | 10:38 |
| pererik87 | ? | 10:38 |
| IlyaHaykinson | nice, the survey has 1036 respondents | 17:35 |
| p3t3r | one question: | 17:40 |
| p3t3r | Do we have to finish to translate this part of the manual before 11-02-10 or by this date? | 17:40 |
| dutchie | no, not by any means | 17:41 |
| dutchie | translate as much as you can, but at the moment, there are no hard translation deadlines | 17:42 |
| p3t3r | thanks :) | 17:46 |
| * dutchie goes for a shower | 17:46 | |
| wolter | hey people | 17:55 |
| wolter | so, no activity? | 19:26 |
| dutchie | everyone's busy writing, not chatting | 19:27 |
| dutchie | ;) | 19:27 |
| wolter | haha | 19:27 |
| wolter | one can almost here the clacking of the keyboards | 19:28 |
| wolter | or not | 19:31 |
| humphreybc | lol | 19:48 |
| humphreybc | See the doc team might be moving to Mallard for Lucid | 19:49 |
| wolter | ah, thought so | 19:49 |
| humphreybc | They were concerned about the amount of comments on the Manual blog posts etc that suggested users didn't know anything about in built help | 19:49 |
| humphreybc | so they're trying to improve it drastically :) | 19:49 |
| humphreybc | Even if we haven't added anything to Ubuntu via the manual, we've still inadvertently managed to overhaul the docs :P | 19:50 |
| wolter | haha | 19:50 |
| humphreybc | b1ackcr0w, you need to seriously start working on your chapter :) | 19:50 |
| wolter | we will humphreybc... trust me | 19:50 |
| humphreybc | righto wolter, good thing I can count on you! xP | 19:50 |
| wolter | sure humphreybc | 19:57 |
| wolter | so humphreybc, will there be any documentation in building packages from source? | 20:02 |
| wolter | I think i have asked this already | 20:02 |
| wolter | but just want to re-check | 20:02 |
| dutchie | i'd say NO NO NO NO NO NO | 20:02 |
| wolter | ok | 20:03 |
| wolter | but i think it is worth to mention that building is *one* of the many methods in which one can get software in ubuntu | 20:03 |
| wolter | or not | 20:03 |
| dutchie | it's really not something we should advocate | 20:04 |
| dutchie | people's first port of call should be the software centre, not some random website offering tarballs | 20:04 |
| wolter | ok | 20:08 |
| b1ackcr0w | humphreybc: understood | 20:42 |
| humphreybc | wolter, no no | 21:16 |
| humphreybc | no building from source :) | 21:16 |
| humphreybc | software center software center software center | 21:16 |
| humphreybc | there are THOUSANDS of applications available there and i'm SURE someone can find what they're after | 21:17 |
| pererik87 | SC SC SC SC SC | 21:24 |
| humphreybc | exactly | 21:35 |
| godbyk | Back home. Stupid ice storms. Ice sucks. | 22:21 |
| godbyk | At least I didn't fall on my butt this time. | 22:22 |
| === Guest42653 is now known as ianto | ||
| pererik87 | sudo apt-get install package1 package2 package3 --assume-yes /did not know i could do that. Installing new programs after reinstalling is going to go alot faster next time | 23:46 |
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