[00:00] <kamusin> was a very nice experience (first time) ..  not too much people but well..
[00:00] <pedro_> kamusin: what's the status of HUUF , is that working at all?
[00:01] <kamusin> yep, huuf is under an active development .. recently I added a ppa repo
[00:01] <kamusin> so all these ubunteros  in this room are invited to test it :
[00:02] <kamusin> huuf is an application to provide usefull information to new ubuntu users
[00:02] <kamusin> when need support at forums
[00:02] <greg-g> interesting
[00:03] <kamusin> https://edge.launchpad.net/huuf
[00:04] <kamusin> Others tasks that I have done are related to help organizing Bugdays and BugJams, making lot of bug triage and giving talks in some events around Chile, these topics were about how to triage bugs, how to participate in the ubuntu community
[00:04] <cristianvirtual> I support kamusin! he's very helpfull in our team he is always helping in our irc channel and working in bugs. he has a lot of initiative to help all
[00:04] <arvaro> kamusin is an active participant in the comunity, he's always teaching us and participating actively in the events...go kamusin go :)
[00:04] <kamusin> hehe thank you :)
[00:04] <mruiz> kamusin is an important part of Ubuntu-cl . His contributions to the BugSquad positioned him as a very good actor of the Ubuntu scene. Talking about our LoCo team, I have to say that Victor always is ready to participate in events, helping users, etc. He is a good fellow too. A big +1 from me.
[00:05] <fefa> i also support kamusin he is very kind and is alway helping everybody
[00:05] <pleia2> great work kamusin! :)
[00:05] <pleia2> +1
[00:06] <pedro_> +1
[00:06] <technoviking> +1
[00:07] <greg_g> +1 from me
[00:07] <cody-somerville> +1
[00:07]  * kamusin yai!
[00:07] <pleia2> congrats and welcome, kamusin!
[00:07] <pedro_> welcome aboard kamusin!
[00:08] <kamusin> :D thank you so much , gracias por su apoyo!
[00:08] <mruiz> yay
[00:08] <pleia2> cristianvirtual: you're up, please introduce yourself and provide a link to your wiki page :)
[00:08] <greg_g> congrats and welcome!
[00:08] <cristianvirtual> Hi!, I'm Cristian Barahona of Ubuntu-cl's team
[00:08] <cristianvirtual> you can see my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CristianBarahona
[00:09] <cristianvirtual> and my launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~cristianvirtual
[00:09] <cristianvirtual> Write english is not one of my strengths, so excuseme if I write slowly or not very well.
[00:09] <cristianvirtual> I'm Software Engineer, I have my own company (we are 5 peoples). We develop software for callcenters with Asterisk and Python, and of course, Ubuntu server.
[00:09] <cristianvirtual> I'm a Ubuntu user since 2005 and I have been participating with the Chilean LoCo Team since 2008
[00:10] <cristianvirtual> Now I'm part of the Chilean LoCo Council and its LocoContact
[00:10] <cristianvirtual> You can find me every day on #ubuntu-cl and taking part of the discussions and plans in our mailing list.
[00:11] <cristianvirtual> I'm working in Ubuntu-cl like administrator of the Ubuntu-cl Planet, administrating the web site wich is hosted by myself, I also participate giving talks in some events in diferents cities of Chile.
[00:12] <cristianvirtual> and ofcourse, always help in the marketing team
[00:12] <mruiz> Cristian represents in a good way the Ubuntu philosophy. He has been an important part of our community, always facing new challenges and responsibilities within our LoCo Team.
[00:12] <cristianvirtual> and participating in stands in diferents events
[00:12] <arvaro> cristianvirtual is always working in the community with a big smile, helping the new ones and giving talks in many places, as i said before, always with a big smile
[00:12] <mruiz> As Ubuntu Member, I think that Cristian would be a good example to follow in our country. He can help us to spread the word about Ubuntu, Linux, Free Software and Open Source. Also as a former LoCo contact, I have to say that Cristian is doing a very good job.
[00:13]  * IngForigua suport cristianvirtual
[00:13] <fefa> i support 100% cristianvirtual he is very helpfull in the comunity always giving great ideas and working to making true:)
[00:13] <cristianvirtual> wow thanks all
[00:14] <kamusin> I know and fully support cristianvirtual , he is very pro active and so entusiast. I stole his idea to made an application to help new users (huuf), but I improved his initial idea and internationalized a litle bit
[00:14] <cody-somerville> fefa, Are you a Ubuntu member yourself?
[00:15] <fefa> actually im not, i participate in ubuntu-cl in marketing
[00:18] <pleia2> great work (and great intro and wiki page!)
[00:18] <pleia2> +1 from me
[00:18] <greg_g> +1 here, too.
[00:18] <cody-somerville> +1
[00:18] <technoviking> +1
[00:18] <pedro_> +1 from here too
[00:19] <cristianvirtual> :)
[00:19] <pleia2> congrats!
[00:19] <pedro_> congrats cristianvirtual!
[00:19] <greg_g> Congrats and welcome, cristianvirtual!
[00:19] <itnet7> Very good work cristianvirtual ! Congratulations
[00:19] <kamusin> congrats cristianvirtual ! arggggggggg
[00:19] <cristianvirtual> hey, now I really have a big smile! :D
[00:19] <IngForigua> Bienvenido cristianvirtual que vivan los hispanohablantes :D
[00:19] <mruiz> \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/
[00:19] <cristianvirtual> gracias IngForigua
[00:19] <mruiz> 2 chilean ubuntu members !
[00:20] <kamusin> seh!
[00:20] <alucardi> Wow, esta reunión debió ser en español
[00:20] <mruiz> claro
[00:20] <zehrique> alucardi: lol
[00:20] <IngForigua> jajajajajajaja
[00:20] <SergioMeneses> cristianvirtual, wellcome
[00:20] <zehrique> Wellcome, cristianvirtual!
[00:20] <pleia2> jamalta_: you're up, please introduce yourself and provide a link to your wiki page
[00:20] <IngForigua> Si toca que sea en español :D
[00:20] <cristianvirtual> thanks :D
[00:21] <jamalta_> My name is Jamal Fanaian. I'm from Florida. I am a web developer working for an entertainment company. I started using Linux to manage my servers a few years ago, and started using Ubuntu full-time around the 7.10 release. I am a member of the Ubuntu Florida LoCo where I try to attend and help out with events in the Florida area. On top of that, I try to contribute by offering my skills to open source projects. I have be
[00:21] <jamalta_> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/jamalta
[00:21] <jamalta_> ...geist project and will be working with them to help integrate their engine with the web. I am also starting an open source project called Pandamon to do live video streaming. I am also an instructor for Ubuntu User Days coming up in just a few days. I am also hoping to become more active with the Ubuntu Learning project to help the Ubuntu user base grow.
[00:23] <itnet7> Want to pitch my 2 ¢ for jamalta
[00:23] <pleia2> woohoo learning project :)
[00:23] <itnet7> Jamal is a great member of the Florida Team. He has done some really good development work, and has always been willing to give a hand whenever asked. He is a quick study, and has been very dedicated to Ubuntu and our LoCo. He is the epitome of what helps to make the Florida Team a success.
[00:24] <jamalta_> itnet7: thank you :)
[00:24] <itnet7> jamalta_: you deserve it
[00:26] <itnet7> We have had meetups where he has mentored beginners to triaging and Launchpad use
[00:26] <pleia2> cool
[00:26] <greg_g> good deal, I'm always partial to bug work :)
[00:27] <pleia2> jamalta_: after user days think you'll be able to contribute writing some courses for the learning team?
[00:28] <jamalta_> That's a great idea, actually, that's something I'd love to do
[00:29] <pleia2> glad to hear it :)
[00:29] <pleia2> +1 from me
[00:29] <technoviking> +1 here
[00:29] <pedro_> +1 great work jamalta!
[00:29] <greg_g> +1 from me, great work and great testimonials
[00:29] <nixternal> +1
[00:29] <nixternal> :)
[00:29] <pleia2> haha
[00:29] <greg_g> haha
[00:29] <pleia2> nice timing nixternal :P
[00:29] <jamalta_> thank you so much
[00:30] <jamalta_> lol
[00:30] <itnet7> Congratulations jamalta_ !!
[00:30] <jamalta_> :D
[00:30] <jamalta_> thank you so much everyone
[00:30] <cody-somerville> +1 :)
[00:30] <greg_g> congrats and welcome, jamalta_!
[00:30] <itnet7> Well... sorry should have waited for cody-somerville
[00:30] <jamalta_> greg_g thanks! :)
[00:30] <nixternal> congrats and welcome jamalta_ \o/
[00:30] <pleia2> congrats and welcome jamalta_!
[00:31] <jamalta_> thanks to everyone who voted, and thank you to everyone who cared to write about me
[00:31] <pleia2> ok, that wraps things up for the evening
[00:31] <jamalta_> :)
[00:31] <pleia2> thanks everyone, congrats to the new members :)
[00:31] <jamalta_> pleia2: thanks
[00:31] <greg_g> thanks for coming out, everyone. Another great selection of contributors, welcome aboard new members!
[00:31] <pedro_> thanks all for attending :-)
[00:32] <zehrique> Congrats for all the new members! :)
[00:32] <itnet7> Thanks for hanging in there everyone! Good job to all the new members!!! Congrats
[00:32] <alucardi> thanks and congrats to all!!
[00:32] <cristianvirtual> thanks :)
[00:32] <Iowan> Thanks for the opportunity!
[00:33] <greg_g> 8 new members! crazy!
[00:34] <pleia2> 7 ;)
[00:34] <IngForigua> La mayoria hispanohablantes
[00:34] <IngForigua> :D
[00:35] <IngForigua> 5 hispanohablantes :D
[00:35] <greg_g> yeah yeah, 7 :)
[00:35] <pleia2> hehe
[00:36] <jamalta_> hey, yo ablo español tambien ;)
[00:36] <jamalta_> pero vivo en EU
[00:37] <alucardi> the Ubuntu planet will be very latinamerican the next days jejeje
[00:38] <greg_g> alucardi: indeed, deservedly.
[00:47] <Iowan> Kinda hate to leave, but guess it's time to get back to work...
[00:55] <SergioMeneses> okay people
[00:55] <SergioMeneses> i seeyou later
[00:55] <kamusin> see you!
[19:16] <ulysses> good night
[19:25] <daskreech> hi ulysses
[19:57] <jussi01> o/
[19:57]  * Quintasan waves to jussi01
[19:57] <jussi01> heya Quintasan
[19:57] <jussi01> meeting in 3 mins, no?
[19:58] <Quintasan> yeah
[20:00] <ScottK> o/
[20:00] <tomplast> Exiting guys, my first Kubunt meeting ;). Losing the Kubuntu-Meeting-Virginity istheshit ;)
[20:00] <Riddell> good evening friends
[20:00] <jjesse> tomplast: its not that cool :)
[20:01] <ScottK> Someone have the agenda?
[20:01] <Nightrose> heya folks :)
[20:01] <Riddell> seele, apachelogger, JontheEchidna  council ping
[20:01] <neversfelde> good evening
[20:01]  * Nightrose gets some tea
[20:01] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[20:02] <apachelogger> ahoy!
[20:02] <seele> pong
[20:02] <Riddell> ooh, council quota
[20:02] <JontheEchidna> hi there
[20:02] <dhillon-v10> hi all :)
[20:02] <jussi01> o/ again
[20:02] <Riddell> anyone here for membership?
[20:02] <Quintasan> \o
[20:02] <jussi01> me, oh wait, that was last time :P
[20:03] <Riddell> then apachelogger has an agenda item
[20:03] <apachelogger> right
[20:04] <apachelogger> recently it was suggested that the council gets a mailing list people can write to when they need to communicate with the whole council (privately)
[20:04] <apachelogger> any thoughts on that?
[20:04] <jussi01> are you going to use mootbot?
[20:04] <Riddell> do we have such cases?
[20:05]  * ScottK thinks all the council members have public email addresses.
[20:05] <seele> apachelogger: +1
[20:05] <ScottK> In the unlikely need, they can be reached.
[20:05] <seele> ScottK: no, the issue is we need a mailing list so it is easier to contact everyone rather than put 5 people in an email
[20:05] <jussi01> Well, if I may comment, I had ones such case recently, and it doesnt have any real overhead, but creates an official point of contact for the council
[20:06] <apachelogger> ScottK: then you need to aggregate addies of all members
[20:06] <jussi01> as per other councils within k/ubuntu
[20:06] <jjesse> is there a kubuntu-council team in LP and does the contact this team go to all members?
[20:06] <jjesse> or just one person
[20:06] <jjesse> becaue if it went to all members problem would be solved
[20:06] <apachelogger> jjesse: should go to all members
[20:06] <apachelogger> but replies will need manual adding of addresses again
[20:07] <ScottK> apachelogger: If something is so critical it really needs private attention of the whole KC, then I think googling for some email addresses is not a significant barrier.
[20:07] <Quintasan> +1 from me, it will make easier to contact the whole council
[20:07]  * Nightrose has to agree with ScottK
[20:07]  * neversfelde too
[20:07] <ScottK> -1 from me.  Stinks of bureacracy.
[20:07] <Nightrose> but then again I don't really care of we have one
[20:07] <jussi01> I would say why not? there no real overhead, and it makes things easier?
[20:07] <Nightrose> it's just hopefully not needed enough to actually be useful
[20:07] <apachelogger> jussi01: I would not say that
[20:08] <apachelogger> either it is a moderated list, which creates moderation overhead
[20:08] <apachelogger> or it is not moderated and creates spam overhead
[20:09] <apachelogger> I personally do not feel that it is necessary at this point, so both overheads would not be worth it
[20:09] <dhillon-v10> apachelogger: If I may say, won't moderation create more work, now that people can easily access the entire council there would be more email that are unnecessary and maybe spam too
[20:09]  * jussi01 would like a unified way to contact the council if needed. 
[20:09] <Riddell> there is a Contact this Team link on the team page which I think should be enough
[20:10] <jjesse> +1 to Riddell
[20:10] <apachelogger> jussi01: what Riddell wrote ;)
[20:10] <maco> Riddell: how does "reply to all" work for that?
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> +1 for "contact this team"
[20:10] <apachelogger> maco: does not
[20:10] <maco> apachelogger: thats what i thought
[20:10] <apachelogger> so the council members will have to take care of that
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> ah, then it's not much of a listr
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> *list
[20:11] <JontheEchidna> shouldn't be too hard to CC all council members in your responses
[20:11] <apachelogger> well
[20:11] <Nightrose> all the council members are able to edit a CC list no?
[20:11] <Nightrose> ;-)
[20:11] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[20:11] <apachelogger> council members could setup lists in kaddressbook for simplifcation :P
[20:11] <Riddell> seele: happy with that?
[20:11] <Nightrose> can we go on with more useful stuff?
[20:11] <seele> sure
[20:11] <Riddell> JontheEchidna has an item
[20:11] <apachelogger> also, if a topic is not really private it might just as well be replied to with CC to kubuntu-devel
[20:12] <JontheEchidna> yeah, speedcrunch vs kcalc
[20:12] <JontheEchidna> Currently we're in a bit of a crunch for livecd space
[20:12] <Riddell> kcalc has no use history, this is a major problem for me
[20:12] <JontheEchidna> use history?
[20:12] <apachelogger> most physical calculators don't
[20:12] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: stuff you entered shown
[20:12] <JontheEchidna> oh
[20:13] <Riddell> so you can see what your previous use was
[20:13] <Riddell> kcalc has better translations though, that's important
[20:13] <apachelogger> also
[20:13] <apachelogger> kcalc goes through rosetta :P
[20:13] <nixternal> hola
[20:13] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: would it save a lot of space to switch?
[20:13] <Nightrose> yo nixternal
[20:13] <Quintasan> nixternal: \o
[20:14] <JontheEchidna> It would save ~300 kb on livecd space
[20:14] <apachelogger> also, kcalc's translations are part of the langpacks anyway
[20:14] <apachelogger> so we have the kcalc translations on board + speedcrunch's own translations
[20:14] <JontheEchidna> not too much on its own, but if we take several 100 kb's here and there we're on our way to having everythign fit
[20:14] <Nightrose> yea
[20:14] <Nightrose> anything else that is meh in kcalc besides history?
[20:14] <JontheEchidna> I looked in to packaging the math books that speedcrunch includes separately, but that only saved somewhere between 60-80 kb
[20:15] <apachelogger> no, and I again want to mention that most calcs do not have a history :P
[20:15] <ScottK> I agree speedcrunch is fancier, but for a basic calculator, kcalc seems fine.
[20:15]  * txwikinger says sorry for being late
[20:15] <Nightrose> apachelogger: heh yea agreed
[20:15]  * ulysses uses a Casio fx-220 calculator:\
[20:15] <Nightrose> i just don't use either of them enough to make a good decision so asking
[20:15]  * ScottK throws out the idea of neither
[20:15] <Nightrose> i mostly use krunner
[20:15] <nixternal> krunner works for a basic calculator
[20:15] <ScottK> We have a calculator widget + krunner already
[20:15] <maco> how discoverable is krunner?
[20:16] <Nightrose> good point
[20:16] <ScottK> Aren't they enough?
[20:16] <nixternal> maco: alt+f2
[20:16] <nixternal> ;p
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> if krunner is undiscoverable, then the calculator plasmoid is more discoverable
[20:16] <maco> nixternal: yes yes, but who knows to hit alt+f2 to find the calculator?
[20:16] <apachelogger> krunner is no good for an argument
[20:16] <agateau> nixternal: and don't forget the '=' :/
[20:16] <nixternal> pull the calculators, for the next 2 or 3 releases, and see how many complaints you get
[20:16] <jussi01> krunner does sums? o.O
[20:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: still would you be looking for it there
[20:16] <Quintasan> jussi01: :D
[20:16]  * ScottK thinks kcalc is definitely enough for the default, but would be fine with just the widget.
[20:16] <maco> jussi01: yes, that too. i had no idea it could
[20:16] <apachelogger> esp since the most visible search (the one in kickoff) does not include plasmoids
[20:16]  * maco uses google for math
[20:16] <Quintasan> ScottK: +1
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> add a menu entry for "plasmoidviewer calculator"? :P
[20:16] <Nightrose> +1
[20:17] <jussi01> ScottK: +1
[20:17]  * agateau finds krunner more reliable for math than for starting apps :/
[20:17] <Lex79> I like calculator plasmoid
[20:17] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: :P
[20:17] <JontheEchidna> +1 for ScottK's proposal
[20:17] <maco> agateau: O_o
[20:17]  * jjesse uses the calculator on my phone
[20:17] <apachelogger> agateau: I think the krunner implementation still got some weird float bug :P
[20:17] <apachelogger> float + division that is
[20:17] <agateau> apachelogger: good enough for me, I'm an engineer, not a scientist :)
[20:17] <JontheEchidna> poor qtscript, being abused by the calculator runner ;_;
[20:18] <JontheEchidna> agateau: dividing integers can trigger this bug :/
[20:18]  * apachelogger only calculates via irb :P
[20:18] <Quintasan> krunner got sin(), awesome
[20:18]  * ScottK just polled the two teenage Kubuntu users in the house.
[20:18] <Nightrose> result?
[20:18] <ScottK> One doesnt' use a calculator and the other finds the history annoying.
[20:18] <agateau> JontheEchidna: oh
[20:18] <Nightrose> haha
[20:18] <Quintasan> :D
[20:18] <apachelogger> I suppose we don't need a vote then :P
[20:18] <agateau> :D
[20:18] <jussi01> :D
[20:19] <Nightrose> apachelogger: well we still need one on none or kcalc
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> Having a non-plasma calculator app should be considered, since this is an LTS
[20:19] <apachelogger> *nod*
[20:20] <JontheEchidna> (less of a radical change from the status quo)
[20:20] <nixternal> http://www.gimmees.com/detail~pnum~7291~pcategory~12~psubcategory~2.asp <- there is my calculator :)
[20:20] <maco> less of a need for new users to go find out what the heck plasma is and how to add widgets...and with the possibility of closing the calculator app when you're done with it
[20:20] <Nightrose> so vote on switching to kcalc please
[20:21] <apachelogger> who's in favor of shipping kcalc for 10.04? (with possible option of dropping it later in favor of the plasmoid)
[20:21] <seele> +1 kcalc, 1 feature doesn't seem to be a showstopper on this
[20:21] <JontheEchidna> +1 shipping kcalc
[20:21] <apachelogger> +1
[20:21] <seele> for people who know of and really want speedcrunch, they can just install it
[20:21] <neversfelde> +1
[20:21] <Nightrose> +1
[20:21] <jussi01> +1
[20:21] <nixternal> go with kcalc, we don't need to ship anymore plasmoids by default...let the users pick the plasmoids they want
[20:21] <Lex79> +1
[20:21] <tomplast> +1
[20:21] <Riddell> a decision!
[20:21] <Nightrose> \o/
[20:21] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: please do the switching :)
[20:21] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I can't push to the seed branch :(
[20:21] <apachelogger> omg
[20:22]  * apachelogger is going to do the switching then
[20:22] <JontheEchidna> thx
[20:22] <Riddell> "Ubuntu IRC Council for channel domination?"
[20:22] <maco> whatwhat?
[20:22] <Riddell> the Ubuntu IRC Council want some permissions on #kubuntu-devel
[20:22] <jussi01> Right then...
[20:22] <maco> like, to be on the access list?
[20:22]  * apachelogger thinks that apachelogger also needs permissions :P
[20:22] <Nightrose> reasons for that?
[20:22] <JontheEchidna> just as a heads up, in 10 minutes I may have to leave.
[20:23] <jjesse> is there no one from ubuntu irc channel who is already a kbuntu-devel member?
[20:23] <nixternal> just give it to them and be done with it
[20:23] <JontheEchidna> yeah, no reason why they shouldn't have access that I can see
[20:23] <ScottK> Are we solving an actual problem here?
[20:23] <nixternal> ScottK: no
[20:23]  * Nightrose isn't so sure she likes it
[20:23] <Riddell> the history is that I registered as channel contact for the #kubuntu namespace
[20:23] <jussi01> Yeah, as the main devel chans are part of our LP import, and we are the group contacts for k/xUbuntu we need a +f for that.
[20:23] <nixternal> that's why I said, just give it to them and be done with it...I would keep Riddell though as the #1 power on the channel
[20:24] <Riddell> and apparantly ubuntu irc channel usurped me whenever they got setup without me knowing
[20:24] <apachelogger> yeah, dont hand it over completely ;)
[20:24] <jussi01> it isnt that we are going to come in and make changes to the channel.
[20:24]  * jjesse never understood the need for ubuntu-irc-council but whatever
[20:24] <Riddell> the ubuntu irc channel is however quite kubuntu happy
[20:24] <nixternal> I think there are better agenda items to cover :)
[20:24] <apachelogger> +1
[20:25] <seele> i dont understand why the ubuntu irc council needs to own our channel, but whatever
[20:25] <Nightrose> i still don't get the actual reason
[20:25] <seele> it sounds like something we dont have a choice on
[20:25] <ScottK> seele: Then don't vote.  Let them just do it.
[20:26] <JontheEchidna> I believe I'll abstain, I don't feel that my opinion is strong enough to be useful in any way
[20:26] <nixternal> it will happen anyways, as if it doesn't, it will more than likely escalate to the CC...they need to have +f like jussi01 said for their new way of doing things
[20:26] <seele> aye +0 from me
[20:26] <nixternal> the IRCC is solid, no worries
[20:26] <Riddell> because the ubuntu irc council likes to own all IRC channels so when there's an IRC problem anywhere everyone knows who can solve it
[20:26] <seele> that sounds like a community issue, not irc issue
[20:26] <seele> if we have technical problems or problems with lurkers/spammers, dont we usually contact a freenode op?
[20:27]  * Nightrose is -1 on this one without a good explanation sorry
[20:27] <Nightrose> i won't be a pita about it but...
[20:27] <apachelogger> well, there is a point to that
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> maybe we should just defer this item?
[20:27] <nixternal> Nightrose: it will just go to the CC eventually and it will happen anyways, I say keep Riddell in power, give them what they need for their LP and bot stuff
[20:27] <apachelogger> and indeed that is more social than technical
[20:28] <Riddell> jussi01: got a good explanation for Nightrose?
[20:28] <apachelogger> other councils going around establishing policies and specs and whatnot that affect us, without talking to us beforehand is no good
[20:28] <Nightrose> right
[20:28] <jussi01> 1 moment
[20:28] <apachelogger> and then coming to us saying "uhm, but we need that" is not what I call good inter-council communication
[20:29] <JontheEchidna> I think we could benefit from having this discussed on the mailing list, so that we have time to absorb/think about it. This is the first I've heard of this, and I don't think I can make a good decision on the quick 2-minute explanation given while the meeting is going on.
[20:29] <nixternal> apachelogger: I agree, but it is something that is going on with every #*ubuntu-* namespace... tsimpson and jussi01 could explain it better though
[20:30] <jussi01> The ircc are the group contacts for the KXUbuntu-* channels. We are currently re-organising how the main channels are administered, - you can see more from tsimpsons blog about how it works: http://tsimpson.ubottu.com/blog/archives/3
[20:30] <Quintasan> I don't really get the idea of another irc channel but I agree with JontheEchidna
[20:30] <apachelogger> Everone in favor of postponing and discussing this on the mailing list +1 now
[20:30] <Nightrose> +1
[20:30] <apachelogger> +1
[20:30] <nixternal> it's an IRC channel, it isn't like we are giving them access to ~kubuntu-devel so they can upload packages
[20:30] <tomplast> +1
[20:30] <seele> +1 postpone
[20:31] <jussi01> We do have the power to just go and add ourselves to the access list if we feel necessary, but we dont do that except in case of emergencies. we prefer to go to the channel contact and ask.
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> +1
[20:31] <neversfelde> +1
[20:31] <Riddell> postponed then
[20:31] <apachelogger> ok
[20:31] <Riddell> agateau wants to talk about "DBusMenu and applications getting creative with tray menus"
[20:31] <Nightrose> jussi01: don't get me wrong i am not mistrusting you personally ;-)
[20:31] <agateau> ok
[20:31] <apachelogger> jussi01: please start a thread on the ml with some information
[20:31] <jussi01> sure
[20:31] <apachelogger> thx
[20:32] <agateau> is everyone familiar with dbusmenu, or should I do a quick summary?
[20:32] <seele> summary pls
[20:32] <agateau> ok
[20:32]  * Nightrose would like a quick summary
[20:32] <agateau> so you heard about the new systemtray
[20:32] <agateau> which landed in KDE 4.3
[20:32] <agateau> it let applications expose their tray icons over dbus
[20:33] <agateau> and then the systemtray applet is in charge of drawing them
[20:33] <agateau> this is a change from the old method, where the app would draw directly inside the applet
[20:33] <agateau> dbusmenu is the next step
[20:33] <agateau> right now when a user right click on a systemtray icon,
[20:33] <agateau> plasma tells the app: please show a menu over this icon
[20:34] <agateau> this means a kde app will show a kde menu
[20:34] <agateau> a gnome app would show a gnome menu
[20:34] <agateau> the idea behind dbusmenu is to change this part
[20:34] <agateau> let the app expose over dbus its menu
[20:34] <agateau> so that the systemtray can show it
[20:34] <agateau> this way gnome and kde apps are shown in a consistent way
[20:35] <Nightrose> meaning?
[20:35] <JontheEchidna> clicking on gnomey tray icons will have a kde-ish context menu
[20:35] <Quintasan> it doesn't look like crap?
[20:35] <agateau> a gnome app running on a kde desktop would get a kde menu
[20:35] <agateau> and vice versa
[20:35] <Nightrose> ok
[20:36] <agateau> this work has been started by Canonical but as also been discussed and agreed with Aaron Seigo and Marco Martin
[20:36] <agateau> problem arise when apps start to embed widgets in their menu
[20:36] <agateau> because we can't pass widgets in dbus
[20:36] <agateau> most outstanding example:
[20:36] <agateau> kopete
[20:36] <agateau> http://imagebin.ca/view/WUneYGbp.html
[20:37] <JontheEchidna> knetworkmanager does this too
[20:37] <agateau> JontheEchidna: true
[20:37] <agateau> but for knetworkmanager we may go back to the applet at some point?
[20:37] <Nightrose> agateau: what happens if you use the new method then?
[20:37] <agateau> for now: you get a blank menu item :/
[20:37] <JontheEchidna> yeah, once the applet shapes up we plan on turning back
[20:38] <Riddell> I haven't seen any signs of the networkmanager plasmoid re-appearing
[20:38]  * Nightrose neither
[20:38] <agateau> oh
[20:38] <Riddell> and currently right click on knetworkmanager is not in good shape
[20:38] <agateau> I thought Sebas was on this
[20:38] <agateau> mmm I guess so
[20:38] <Riddell> asking on #k-d
[20:38] <agateau> so we can either: distro-patch apps to use standard items
[20:39] <tomplast> Do we need to change all softwares which embeds widgets in their context menu? Sorry if asking stupid question?
[20:39] <Lex79> it seems there are problems with kmix too
[20:39] <agateau> or add a mechanism for weird menu apps to not use dbusmenu
[20:39] <agateau> tomplast: I only found Kopete to be a problem
[20:39] <apachelogger> this should be implemented upstream?
[20:39] <apachelogger> should be fixed upstream
[20:39] <apachelogger> ?
[20:39] <Nightrose> this sounds like a non-good idea to me for an LTS tbh
[20:40] <apachelogger> work worked around usptream for that matter
[20:40] <jjesse> +1 Nightrose
[20:40] <agateau> apachelogger: work is going on upstream right now: I work on a branch of kdesvn
[20:40] <apachelogger> no no, I mean that maintaining this as any kind of patch is a bad idea IMHO
[20:40] <agateau> but we agreed at UDS to include dbusmenu in Kubuntu Lucid
[20:41] <agateau> apachelogger: what do you mean with "this": dbusmenu or apps patches?
[20:41]  * Lure is a bit late
[20:41] <apachelogger> both really
[20:41] <Riddell> agateau: how hard is it just to turn off dbus menu for knetworkmanager and kopete?
[20:41] <apachelogger> well, I do not know what the dbusmenu patch looks like ;)
[20:41] <Riddell> agateau: I notice klipper doesn't use it, why is that?
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: currently in lucid it has no adverse effects for knetworkmanager
[20:42] <agateau> Riddell: it has not yet been ported to KStatusNotifierItem
[20:42] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: right click -> top menu item doesn't work
[20:42] <Riddell> agateau: ah right
[20:42] <daskreech> Is there a timeline for the port?
[20:42] <agateau> Riddell: we could add a minimal api to avoid dbusmenu in specific cases
[20:42] <JontheEchidna> knetworkmanager still has the normal tray menu for me
[20:42] <JontheEchidna> oh, that's left click
[20:43] <JontheEchidna> but the top level item not working is a problem with all dbusmenu items
[20:43] <agateau> All dbusmenu rendered menu right now uses some kind of Plasma theming
[20:43] <agateau> which I believe I will revert because it causes more inconsistency
[20:43] <apachelogger> agateau: if that API would have to be in kdelibs then we would have to continue patching until KDE 5
[20:43] <agateau> JontheEchidna: yes, support for titles didn't make it in alpha2
[20:43] <apachelogger> otherwise we violate all sorts of packaging policies
[20:44] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: the API is going upstream for 4.5
[20:44] <agateau> apachelogger: indeed, unless we get it to be accepted upstream
[20:44] <agateau> right now upstream is quite supportive of this
[20:44] <apachelogger> one thing I learned about that: get it accepted and applied upstream before adding new API
[20:44] <apachelogger> better save than sorry :)
[20:44] <agateau> apachelogger: I would never suggest extending kdelibs API without upstream authorisation
[20:44] <apachelogger> kk
[20:45] <Riddell> yeah we had a meeting with plasma guys, it's long since been agreed on
[20:45] <daskreech> If it's In KDE 4.5 we get it for free in 10.10 ?
[20:45] <agateau> daskreech: yup
[20:45]  * JontheEchidna notes that now trunk is open there is still a lot of time to get the new API in before lucid's release
[20:45] <daskreech> What's the benefit of having Kubuntu Ship it now then ?
[20:45] <apachelogger> which is why I think that patching is a bad idea alltogehter since we need to support the patches for LTS time frame
[20:46] <agateau> daskreech: GNOME apps are being ported to this for LTS
[20:46] <daskreech> Ship It I made a pun :)
[20:46] <JontheEchidna> as long as agateau is getting paid to do so and I don't have to do anything, I don't see a problem :P
[20:46] <daskreech> agateau: Ah ok is there a list of those apps?
[20:46] <agateau> daskreech: I can try to dig it, but I don't have it at end right now
[20:46]  * apachelogger thinks that should be discussed on the list
[20:46] <JontheEchidna> (irt maintaining the patches)
[20:47] <agateau> daskreech: but if you follow jono blog you can find he is all excited about something called application indicators
[20:47] <daskreech> Right. I saw
[20:47] <agateau> which are GNOME version of our new system tray
[20:47] <agateau> so all apps using libappindicator will need dbusmenu support
[20:47] <apachelogger> ah, there is no fallback?
[20:48] <Riddell> [off topic] libappindicator is a terrible name
[20:48] <apachelogger> :D
[20:48] <ScottK> I think we need to make it clear what was done at UDS and already approved and what new changes agateau is asking for.
[20:48] <JontheEchidna> Lemme think of a proper gnomey name for it...
[20:48] <agateau> apachelogger: it falls back to the old method (x-embed) if there is no StatusNotifier tray
[20:48] <Nightrose> it is...
[20:48] <ScottK> We should not go back and revist what was already agreed.
[20:48]  * apachelogger is wondering how that dep on dbusmenu support works out on tray implementations other than KDE 4.4/Ubuntu GNOME
[20:49] <JontheEchidna> lib.... gorantino..... :D
[20:49] <apachelogger> agateau: ah, ok
[20:49] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna!!!
[20:49] <Nightrose> :D
[20:49] <agateau> apachelogger: it just do not handle the case where you have StatusNotifier but no dbusmenu
[20:49] <agateau> so do we agree on discussing with upstream to add a way for apps to turn off dbusmenu?
[20:49] <apachelogger> anyway
[20:49] <ScottK> Which, modulo bugs, should not happen.
[20:50] <apachelogger> +1 on API enhancement discussion
[20:50] <JontheEchidna> +1
[20:50]  * agateau would have to convince his colleagues to add support for this to GNOME as well :)
[20:50] <apachelogger> if that turns out to be a dead end we can always discuss again
[20:50] <agateau> ok
[20:50] <seele> +1 discussing
[20:50] <apachelogger> agateau: promise them cookies, that always does the trick ;)
[20:50] <seele> really, there's no reason not to talk to them
[20:51]  * agateau adds the cookies idea to his trick list
[20:51] <jjesse> i like cookies
[20:51] <Riddell> agateau: why is knetworkmanager different on left click and right click anyway?
[20:51] <jjesse> chocalate chip please
[20:51] <agateau> Riddell: need to investigate this
[20:51] <agateau> as in: starting a machine running knetworkmanager
[20:52]  * daskreech looks up from his plate of Choccy Kookies
[20:52] <maco> Riddell: for the sillies
[20:52] <Riddell> next item?
[20:52]  * tomplast wonder why he hasn't bought any cookies
[20:52] <Riddell> tomplast has an item
[20:52] <daskreech> tomplast wants to discuss mobile broadband
[20:53] <Riddell> tomplast: go ahead
[20:53] <tomplast> Yeah, I am myself a mobile broadband user and right now it's a pain in cookie jar to get it working.
[20:53] <Riddell> we're at the mercy of upstream with that
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> Realistically, I think the best/only thing we can do is throw ourselves at the mercy of the KDE NetworkMangement team to fix the bugs
[20:53] <tomplast> In Ubuntu I only need to use usb_modeswitch and then use the guide which helps me configuring my connection. In Kubuntu there's no such guide.
[20:54] <jjesse> by guide are you talking about document?
[20:54] <tomplast> sorry
[20:54] <tomplast> wizard
[20:54] <tomplast> I meant
[20:54] <Riddell> yeah gnome network manager is quite nice for this
[20:54] <Riddell> knetworkmanager is lacking it
[20:54] <Riddell> it needs someone to code it
[20:55] <Riddell> volunteers welcome I'm sure
[20:55] <tomplast> Hehe, I have though on start coding again for a while now ;).
[20:55] <tomplast> tought
[20:55] <tomplast> thought
[20:55] <Riddell> otherwise we can document ways to get it working but I think the top one would be "install gnome network manager"
[20:55] <maco> thats a sucky top suggestion
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> I don't think there's any way we can "meeting" this problem to a satisfiable resolution, personally
[20:55] <Nightrose> it is but the best one we have atm
[20:55] <maco> i mean, from the perspective of "kde should work"
[20:56] <daskreech> what would be required to get it working by LTS ship date?
[20:56] <tomplast> usb_modeswitch isn't included on the cd right?
[20:56] <Nightrose> tomplast: if you want to code talk to sebas and see what you can do
[20:56] <Riddell> maco: right, but it's an upstream issue
[20:56] <tomplast> Okay, I'll.
[20:56] <Nightrose> cool
[20:56] <Riddell> usb-modeswitch is in universe, it's not on any CD
[20:57] <seele> what does it do?
[20:57] <Riddell> flip flops apparantly
[20:57] <seele> flip flops what?
[20:57] <Riddell> tomplast: do you know what it does?
[20:57] <tomplast> Yeah sorta. I think it someone switches on and off the modem functionality.
[20:57] <tomplast> somehow
[20:58] <tomplast> Because it's not activate from the beginning. So each time you connect the modem to the computer you need to flipflop it to activate the modem functionality.
[20:58] <tomplast> Sorry for the bad explaination :p
[20:58] <Riddell> apt-cache show usb-modeswitch   that's quite interesting actually
[20:59] <Riddell> devices by default are storage, they include the windows drivers which windows installs then tells it to switch to a serial device
[20:59] <Quintasan> hmm dirty hack but under windoze it does it's job
[20:59] <Riddell> however the main issue is upstream knetworkmanager, I'll ask Bille what the status is
[20:59] <Riddell> next item?
[21:00] <ScottK> SIze 29732.  I'd say we should have it in any case
[21:00] <Riddell> ScottK: without a UI?
[21:01] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes on the theory that I'd like to ship all the bits needed to get online, even if it's a bit tricky to do so.
[21:01] <Riddell> ScottK: fancy doing the MIR?
[21:01]  * ScottK was thinking he'd supervies tomplast doing a MIR
[21:02] <Riddell> tomplast: ok with you?
[21:02] <tomplast> Yeah if i knew what a MIR was *embarrased*. I'm very new to all this stuff.
[21:02] <Riddell> ScottK will tech you all
[21:02] <daskreech> tomplast: It requires lotion
[21:02] <Riddell> do join us in #kubuntu-devel
[21:02] <daskreech> Just saying
[21:02] <maco> tomplast: Main Inclusion Request. its what gets the package from universe to main
[21:02] <maco> tomplast: only stuff in Main gets on CDs
[21:03] <ScottK> tomplast: Ping me later.  It's not too bad.
[21:03] <Riddell> next item is "IRC client deathmatch?"
[21:03] <nixternal> ship irssi and be done with it :p
[21:03] <Riddell> at UDS we said we'd decide IRC client at around this time
[21:03]  * maco puts quassel's gloves on
[21:03] <maco> :P
[21:03] <Riddell> I'm not sure things have changed much since last release
[21:04] <JontheEchidna> Konversation has notifieritem support and is planning a release to coincide with KDE 4.4
[21:04] <nixternal> which is the best right now?
[21:04] <Lure> h
[21:04] <jjesse> are we really going to make our users learn a new client every release?
[21:04] <JontheEchidna> that's pretty much the biggest parts about what has changed in konversationland
[21:04] <nixternal> never heard of h Lure :)
[21:04] <Riddell> I still prefer Konversation because of its a kent name
[21:04] <nixternal> jjesse: sounds like it :p
[21:04] <tomplast> Quassel has this annoying bug where it doesnt get's a systray icon and you accidently close it all the time *grrr*. I prefer  Konversation.
[21:04] <neversfelde> do we really consider to change an important default application when preparing for a LTS release? :(
[21:04] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: compared to the last LTS and every release until 9.04, konversation was default
[21:04] <nixternal> as long as they do it early enough this time to get documented
[21:04] <agateau> jjesse: quassel was the default for two releases iirc
[21:04] <Riddell> Konversation also uses normal translations
[21:04] <jjesse> +1 nixternal
[21:05] <jjesse> it just seems we have this debate every release
[21:05] <ScottK> tomplast: I have never, ever seen that.
[21:05] <jjesse> and i do mean every
[21:05] <Quintasan> Having used both: +1 for Konv.
[21:05] <JontheEchidna> Konversation also has more translations (26 at the time of 1.2.0)
[21:05] <JontheEchidna> 26 languages, that is
[21:05] <ScottK> Quassel is moving to gettext in this cycle.
[21:05] <jjesse> yay for 26 translations :)
[21:05] <ScottK> It already has more than it did for Karmic.
[21:05] <Nightrose> +1 quassel
[21:05] <ScottK> dpm has been helping them out with the transition.
[21:06] <tomplast> +1 konversation.
[21:06] <jjesse> +1 to stick w/ what we are using
[21:06] <JontheEchidna> +1 konversation
[21:06] <neversfelde> +1 quassel
[21:06] <Lex79> +1 quassel
[21:06] <seele> i havent used the new konversation so i abstain
[21:06] <nixternal> oh lord, this seems a bit split, though I think quassel just took the lead
[21:06] <daskreech> +1 xchat
[21:06]  * daskreech flees
[21:06] <agateau> +1 konversation
[21:06] <tomplast> :p
[21:06] <seele> technically i think only the council votes matter, although we take in to consideration other members' opinions
[21:06] <ScottK> I think it's too early in the cycle to decide
[21:06] <nixternal> konversation making a comeback
[21:07]  * Quintasan gets his rifle and shoots daskreech in the back
[21:07] <jjesse> ScottK: it can't be too late in the cycle to make sure we document the switch if any
[21:07] <ScottK> True
[21:07] <ScottK> I think today we should decide when we are going to decide.
[21:07]  * JontheEchidna notes that last cycle, beta was too late to document any switch
[21:07] <nixternal> you have until Feb 16, and definitely have it in by Mar. 4
[21:08] <nixternal> if it isn't in by Mar 4. Quassel will be the documented client
[21:08] <nixternal> I would go as far as Mar 11 though
[21:08] <apachelogger> +1 quassel ... sho did not bribe me into voting for konvi even though I told him so!
[21:08] <daskreech> Riddell: deathmatch shootout is a mexican standoff
[21:08]  * Daviey wonders if Quassel will get a console based client.
[21:08] <nixternal> that's what irssi is for
[21:08] <ScottK> Someone is working on it.
[21:09] <Riddell> if I'm +1 for konversation that makes the council evenly matched and seele has the deciding vote
[21:09] <Riddell> gosh
[21:09] <seele> well like i said, i havent seen konversation in about a year
[21:09] <daskreech> Go for the kent name :)
[21:09] <seele> so i abstain for the time being
[21:09] <nixternal> how about an "IRC Installer" like the firefox one...have it provide marketing type info on each client and let the user choose?
[21:10] <Quintasan> oh noes
[21:10] <ScottK> Revisit at the next meeting aftter people have had a chance to look.
[21:10] <maco> kent name? is this something scottish?
[21:10] <seele> there is no need for the user to choose an irc client
[21:10] <daskreech> Can we get a communal list of pros and cons while seele test konvi out in it's new clothes ?
[21:10] <apachelogger> daskreech: nope
[21:10] <apachelogger> pros and cons are always biased :P
[21:10] <seele> daskreech: i'm not looking at it this second if that's wha tyou mean
[21:10] <ScottK> Last time we tried that it was pretty slanted.
[21:10] <JontheEchidna> Quassel only has 8 substantial translations. Konversation has over 20. If we're at all committed to having translated apps by default we should choose Konversation
[21:10] <daskreech> apachelogger: I do't see how that's any different from +1 from a person
[21:10] <daskreech> same biases just laid out on paper
[21:10] <nixternal> here, I don't use either client, I can do a review and give pros/cons
[21:10] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did you check upstream or what's in Lucid right now?
[21:11]  * ScottK didn't upload a git snapshot yet.
[21:11] <Tm_T> I use neither, but I say Konversation just because of translations
[21:11] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: that's based off of what's in karmic
[21:11] <JontheEchidna> for konversation
[21:11] <JontheEchidna> I based quassel's off of what's in lucid
[21:11] <JontheEchidna> but konversation still wins :P
[21:11] <apachelogger> daskreech: comparing software with pros and cons does almost never match what matters for the target audience and ends in a who-can-pull-out-more-stuff-out-their-nose
[21:11] <ScottK> For Quassel it's gone up with what's upstream.
[21:11] <ScottK> I think that both meet the need of a basic IRC client for user support.
[21:12] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I lol'd  +1
[21:12] <ScottK> That's why we ship an IRC client.
[21:12] <ScottK> After that it's a matter of taste.
[21:12] <daskreech> apachelogger: Ok fine :) I would have hoped it would be with a view as to what's best for users/maintainers but if it's that heated then fine :)
[21:12] <tomplast> Btw, how many of the new users uses irc?
[21:12] <Riddell> which is why I come down to the superficial issue of using a name that more people know
[21:12] <apachelogger> daskreech: that implies that we first spend a couple of hours outlining what the user needs and wants :P
[21:12] <tomplast> That many to justify including an irc client on the cd?
[21:13] <seele> daskreech: voting and pros cons are not the same
[21:13] <daskreech> tomplast: Surprisingly how easy it's possible to get into the #kubuntu room for help matters.
[21:13] <Quintasan> and in the end we are mistaken, aren't we apachelogger? :D
[21:13]  * Lure think we should decide on the space - as we need some more ;-)
[21:13] <apachelogger> Quintasan: of course we are
[21:13]  * ScottK thought at UDS we said not to change without good reason.
[21:13] <daskreech> tomplast: The number of people who login and say what is this for is pretty high considering and it is very useful
[21:13] <Lure> ScottK: +1
[21:13] <Riddell> well let's postpone and see if there's pressing reasons next meeting
[21:13] <daskreech> seele: I see that
[21:13] <nixternal> quassel > konversation on popcon by a decent majority...though those stats aren't all that precise
[21:13] <JontheEchidna> well of course quassel is higher. It's the default client :P
[21:14] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: not looking at installs, looking at votes
[21:14] <Lure> we should have good reason - for me better kde intergation and transaltions are good reasons for considerations
[21:14] <Riddell> Quintasan: has an item
[21:14] <ScottK> Quassel's translations are moving to gettext, so that makes a smaller binary (translation in language packs) and more translations
[21:14] <Quintasan> two actually but, well
[21:15] <Quintasan> So it was mentioned few hours ago that kimpanel widget will have ibus backend
[21:16] <Quintasan> Now if (I'm running Konv) you click right on the text field and go to Select input method you will see probably XIM being selected.
[21:16] <JontheEchidna> I can see that
[21:16] <Quintasan> I couldn't get XIM to work with japanese or korean input. But if you install ibus and anthy then it works
[21:16] <Quintasan> but you need to select Ibus manually then
[21:16] <jussi01> is there a compelling reason to change - we have now had quassel for a few releases and I personally havent seen any major complaints.
[21:17] <nixternal> bug 475530 is interesting concerning kimpanel
[21:17] <nixternal> and according to comments, it is still unusable in Lucid
[21:17] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: upstream is not installing the ibus backend, it turns out
[21:17] <Quintasan> I tried asking Qt guys where the default IM settings are stored but I got no response ( I swear I will go there and poke their eyes out)
[21:17] <JontheEchidna> the author figures that since it's a python script it can go anywhere, and that he doesn't need to worry about installing it
[21:18] <Riddell> Quintasan: I tried asking too, also no answer from my usual Qt contacts
[21:18] <seele> (brb)
[21:18] <Quintasan> IMO there are two solutions to this
[21:19] <Quintasan> freeflying proposed patching language selector to install ibus and anthy-ibus (for japanese)
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> ^the issue of kimpanel not installing its ibus backend would still have to be solved?
[21:20] <Quintasan> yeah
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> kk
[21:20] <Quintasan> OR we could find a way to set IBus as a default IM for Qt
[21:20] <Quintasan> But I do not know where to begin
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> would either issue hinge on a working kimpanel widget?
[21:21] <JontheEchidna> s/either issue/both solutions
[21:21] <Riddell> ibus should get installed by language-support-xx I thought
[21:21] <Quintasan> hmm, sounds better
[21:22] <Quintasan> I think if we get a working KIMPanel it doesn't matter what input method is used by default
[21:22] <Quintasan> if you run IBus, it doesnt change your layout, you need to press alt+space to change to second input method
[21:23] <Riddell> my impression is that ibus is used by ubuntu so we should use that too to ensure gnome and kde compatibility
[21:23] <seele> (back)
[21:23] <maco> ibus works well in kde
[21:23] <Riddell> we just need to find out where the magic switch is in qt
[21:23]  * ScottK has to go.
[21:23] <maco> or um...well, for me it *did* until last week when it mysteriously stopped working on karmic for me, but...
[21:24] <Quintasan> Riddell: I thought that too, but how do we solve the input thingy, now I use ibus + anthy-ibus and I need to select IBus manually because the default one is XIM
[21:24] <Quintasan> which is not working :/
[21:24] <maco> Quintasan: which is the same as how scim/skim worked
[21:24] <Quintasan> ああああ
[21:24] <maco> Quintasan: er, referring to earlier with that alt+space thing
[21:24] <Riddell> Quintasan: it's just Qt which is the problem right?
[21:24] <Quintasan> maco: exacly :)
[21:25] <Riddell> Quintasan: I was told to ask in #qt-labs so lets you and me play good cop and bad cop with everyone in there until we get an answer
[21:25] <Quintasan> Riddell: I belive it is, because each time I restart Konversation or Kopete and I need to type in japanese I have to select IBus from the list once again
[21:26] <Riddell> we're losing people and I also need to go soon
[21:26] <Tm_T> Riddell: don't shake them too roughly, we might need them later
[21:26] <Riddell> Quintasan: you have another item?
[21:26] <Quintasan> yeah just quick one
[21:26] <JontheEchidna> gotta bail, be back later
[21:26] <maco> i have this in my .bashrc and everything works lovely
[21:26] <JontheEchidna> nothing against you komputes :D
[21:26] <maco> export GTK_IM_MODULE=ibus
[21:26] <maco> export XMODIFIERS=@im=ibus
[21:26] <maco> export QT_IM_MODULE=ibus
[21:26] <Quintasan> maco: I've tired this
[21:26] <Quintasan> Did not work :/
[21:27] <maco> hrmph. boo!
[21:27] <komputes> hehe
[21:27] <Riddell> Quintasan: tell us about mplayerthumbs vs kffmpegthumbnailer
[21:27] <Quintasan> okay fastly second item, dunno if you read ML about ffmpegthumbnailer but it is said it is faster than mplayerthumbs and takes 262kb of space so I quickly created a package for testing
[21:29] <Riddell> does mplayerthumbs need mplayer?
[21:29] <Quintasan> yeah
[21:29] <Riddell> hmm, that's not much use
[21:29] <Quintasan> So far it overtakes mplayerthumbs by ~10 seconds in terms of speed and takes only 262kb of space so I think if cd allows us we could put it on CD to enable thumbnails by default
[21:30] <Quintasan> ffmpegthumbnailer needs to be updated to 2.0.0 but Ubuntu maintainer said he submitted it to Debian and it will sync shortly
[21:30] <Quintasan> and I have uploaded kffmpeg to REVU
[21:32] <Riddell> ..trying to confirm the size
[21:33] <Riddell> 262kB or 262kb?
[21:33] <Quintasan> kB rather :P
[21:33] <Riddell> yeah, that's still a quarter meg we don't have
[21:33] <Lex79> kffmpeg depends on ffmpegthumbnailer ? do we need 2 MIR for put on cd?
[21:33] <Quintasan> sorry, kffmpeg itself is 7KB
[21:33] <Riddell> yes, but MIRs are fairly easy to write these days
[21:33] <Lex79> strange :)
[21:34] <Quintasan> and ffmpegthumbnailer is ...
[21:34] <Quintasan> 42 KB
[21:34] <Riddell> Quintasan: well want to do the MIRs and we can put it on the DVD and consider CD if space becomes available?
[21:34] <Quintasan> yeah
[21:34] <Riddell> any other business?
[21:35] <Quintasan> nope
[21:35] <Quintasan> I guess.
[21:35] <Riddell> I think everyone else has left already :)
[21:35] <seele> hah
[21:35] <neversfelde> :)
[21:35] <seele> reconvene in #kubuntu-devel then
[21:35] <Quintasan> oh well, I need to write thing earlier and do copy paste
[21:35] <Riddell> Need to get 42.1kB of archives.
[21:35] <Riddell> for Need to get 42.1kB of archives.
[21:35] <Riddell> for ffmpegthumbnailer
[21:36] <Riddell> which isn't bad indeed
[21:36] <Quintasan> and 7 for kffmpeg
[21:36]  * Lure thinks we should drop OOo and get lot's of space ;-)
[21:36] <apachelogger> +1
[21:36] <Quintasan> :D
[21:36] <Riddell> thanks for coming all
[21:36] <Lex79> Quintasan: can kffmpeg create thumbnails for .mkv files?
[21:36] <Lure> at least for lucid+1 this should be doable
[21:36] <Riddell> I'll post notes to the mailing list
[21:36] <Quintasan> Lex79: yes
[21:36] <Quintasan> Lex79: tested on my anime colletion :P
[21:36] <Lex79> oh great !
[21:37] <neversfelde> I guess we need kde-thumbnailer-openoffice in main then, too :)
[21:37] <Quintasan> Lex79: http://pastebin.com/f21473b11 test results if you are interested
[21:37] <neversfelde> although I have no idea what it's for