| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: ping :) | 02:45 |
|---|---|---|
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: pong | 03:00 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: I'll try and finish all the bugs tnoight, my exams are over yay!! | 03:01 |
| HedgeMage | lol yay :) | 03:02 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bug/504554 is this one done ? | 03:31 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 504554 in edubuntu-website "check comment module configuration" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 03:32 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: not afaik...but I'm not sure what the folks here want as far as a comment set-up either | 03:33 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: I enabled the advanced_forum module, and the other little modules that do with it, can you go ahead and have a look on the website, and tell me what needs to be done for the taxonomy module | 03:38 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: give me a sec to set up what we'll need for the forum <--> mailing list bridge, then we'll attack the rest of the advanced_forum stuff together...it takes a bit of config magic | 03:46 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: can you tell me what changes you are making, I want to learn more about these modules :) | 03:46 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: If you give me a minute to have my housemate forward some ports I can set up a VNC session for you to watch :) | 03:47 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: sound like a plan? | 03:48 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: great :) | 03:48 |
| HedgeMage | do you have a jabber client that can handle voice chat, or failing that, Skype? | 03:48 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: nope, I have google talk though but that doesn't support voice thing, but there is epiphany | 03:49 |
| dhillon-v10 | *empathy | 03:49 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: wait i can use video stuff in empathy | 03:50 |
| HedgeMage | hold on a sec, hollaring @ housemate :) | 03:51 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: I need to switch WMs (flux has been acting odd with VNC lately) so bear with me another minute :) | 03:53 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: np :) | 03:54 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: okay, on gnome, turned off my pretty desktop and all transparency so as to save bandwidth | 04:01 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: are we using jabber or skype? | 04:02 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: oh wait, jabber I think. | 04:03 |
| HedgeMage | my jabber ID is hedgemage@jabber.binaryredneck.net so just add me and initiate a voice chat when ready | 04:03 |
| HedgeMage | welcome back, dhillon-v10 | 04:05 |
| HedgeMage | <HedgeMage> my jabber ID is hedgemage@jabber.binaryredneck.net so just add me and initiate a voice chat when ready | 04:05 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: yeah, I got that message don't worry that's other me | 04:05 |
| HedgeMage | grr... do you have skype? I'm using the development version of gajim and it's getting crashy when I turn on Jingle | 04:06 |
| HedgeMage | not sure why | 04:06 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: do I need a web-cam, I just broke mine like yesterday | 04:07 |
| HedgeMage | nope, was just planning on voice and VNC | 04:07 |
| HedgeMage | (VNC lets you view my screen as I work) | 04:07 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: wait so you are running Ubuntu right, i know about VNC and I see you in jabber, but if you have empathy you just have to right click and then share desktop | 04:07 |
| HedgeMage | I have no idea wtf empathy is | 04:08 |
| * HedgeMage sees if it is installed | 04:08 | |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: you know what sorry for all that trouble, let's not worry about that, sorry again for wasting a lot of time on that | 04:08 |
| HedgeMage | no, don't be sorry, I'm looking up empathy now :) | 04:09 |
| HedgeMage | I don't exactly have a stock ubuntu system here... I've been at this since 1994 so I don't play with all the new gui toys that often | 04:09 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: brb gotta eat dinner :) | 04:10 |
| HedgeMage | ok | 04:10 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: back, dinner was good, did you eat yet ? | 04:22 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: Yep, a while ago...the steaks were cheap and not that good, but OMG the fresh baked bread! | 04:27 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: ping? | 04:33 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: pong :) sorry working on this critical bug that could screw up a lot in kde | 04:36 |
| HedgeMage | np | 04:37 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: we can do this later if you like | 04:42 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: sure, right now edubuntu bugs and kde bugs, vnc stuff later on then :) | 04:53 |
| HedgeMage | That's a plan | 04:57 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: alright I scrolled through the site permissions and they seem to be fine :) | 04:58 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: can you run the update script, thanks another one (site-docs) down :) | 05:01 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: here: http://edubuntu.frogandowl.org/admin/build/sitedoc | 05:01 |
| HedgeMage | update script? New modules don't require that, just updates to existing code | 05:02 |
| * HedgeMage is confused | 05:02 | |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: ahh okay, I was talking about the update.php or something like that | 05:03 |
| HedgeMage | update.php only runs when we change something (module or drupal core) to a newer version | 05:03 |
| HedgeMage | cron.php should run occassionally, but you can do that manually from the status page | 05:03 |
| HedgeMage | (it'll run automatically in production, but running it say during a git commit is bad so we do it manually during development) | 05:04 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: ahh okay :) we have about 4 more to go yay!!! help me with this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bug/504556 | 05:05 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 504556 in edubuntu-website "check path module configuration" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 05:05 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: leave that for now, I have a question on site organization for highvoltage first | 05:05 |
| HedgeMage | dhillon-v10: pm? | 05:08 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: okay then, i am working on the last one I can (the rest are yours: design new theme and feedback stuff) its the php filter one | 05:08 |
| dhillon-v10 | HedgeMage: sure :) | 05:08 |
| alkisg | Good morning all | 07:27 |
| vmlintu | morning | 09:04 |
| vmlintu | The user management discussion yesterday looks interesting. | 09:05 |
| vmlintu | I'm just looking in to ways how I could get involved in it.. | 09:05 |
| alkisg | vmlintu: you'd better wait till sbalneav shows up and talk to him... | 09:19 |
| alkisg | It's a post-Lucid goal... how do you think you could contribute? coding? configuration examples? | 09:20 |
| vmlintu | We are now running ldap+kerberos+nfs4 with ltsp/fat clients, so I could get some working examples out | 09:21 |
| alkisg | "fat" clients or standalone workstations? | 09:21 |
| vmlintu | pxe booting fat clients on top of ltsp | 09:22 |
| alkisg | Wow, nice... did you use nubae's script for that, or is it something custom-made? | 09:22 |
| vmlintu | I'm now also working on coding new user management tool to better integrate moodle+elgg+mediawiki+what else with schools' user databases | 09:22 |
| vmlintu | The code will be out next week, I hope | 09:22 |
| vmlintu | The fat client stuff is custom made as it's running kerberos+nfs4 | 09:23 |
| alkisg | I guess with the new fat plugin you could do the same by configuring kerberos+nfs4 on the ltsp server only... | 09:24 |
| alkisg | Anyway, sbalneav's your man for this :) | 09:24 |
| vmlintu | We had to go with nfs4 as sshfs caused too many problems.. | 09:25 |
| alkisg | What problems? | 09:25 |
| vmlintu | some of the applications didn't work as they didn't like sshfs | 09:25 |
| alkisg | Did you try with SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=True|False? | 09:26 |
| vmlintu | Is that in karmic? | 09:26 |
| alkisg | Not sure... maybe a few weeks _after_ karmic was released... | 09:27 |
| vmlintu | I think the problem was with file locking | 09:28 |
| vmlintu | Some applications just refused to start as they couldn't read and write in user's home | 09:28 |
| vmlintu | We are not running karmic ltsp in production, so I haven't tried sshfs with it | 09:29 |
| alkisg | Right, I had that with googleearth and I solved it with SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS | 09:29 |
| vmlintu | ok, I'll have to have a look at it | 09:29 |
| alkisg | I'm not sure how old is that parameter, it might even be in hardy... | 09:30 |
| alkisg | grep your sources for it | 09:30 |
| vmlintu | I remember there also being some performance issues with large files also, but I cannot remember everything anymore | 09:30 |
| vmlintu | But we settled with kerberos so that we got single sign on working with firefox also | 09:31 |
| alkisg | Yeah sure sshfs=encrypted=safe=slow, nfs=unencrypted=unsafe=fast... | 09:31 |
| alkisg | vmlintu: do you think such a solution could be packaged and be easily used in e.g. small schools? | 09:31 |
| vmlintu | nfs4 supports encryption | 09:32 |
| alkisg | And it's faster than sshfs? wow.. | 09:32 |
| vmlintu | If sshfs is used and the actual home directory is on a file server that is mounted through an ltsp server, it gets transferred twice, before it gets to the client.. | 09:34 |
| vmlintu | With nfs you can mount it directly from the same server where ltsp server gets it from | 09:34 |
| vmlintu | We got now working scripts to get all this working on ubuntu quite easily. | 09:35 |
| vmlintu | Getting mediawiki+moodle+elgg working with single sign on is the next step. Having the kerberos ticket is a killer here.. | 09:37 |
| vmlintu | So yes, I'm really hoping to get it all working also for small setups. Though, I doubt that this could be made as the default setup as debugging possible problems is a pain | 09:39 |
| alkisg | It doesn't have to be the default setup... if it was e.g. as easy as `sudo apt-get install edubuntu-nfs-ldap-kerberos-server` | 09:40 |
| ogra | it has to be upgradeable though and match the packaging standards (i.e. not modify config files etc) | 09:41 |
| ogra | i would suggest a wikipage howto with the scripts attached for a start ;) | 09:41 |
| vmlintu | The last part is the problem now. The scripts mess with the config files big time.. | 09:42 |
| ogra | right, yxou can work around that by enhancing the packages but that takes time | 09:42 |
| ogra | i.e. make them read a /etc/<packageconfig>.d/ directory and grab configs from there | 09:42 |
| ogra | so that you only have to dump config files in there that override the packaged version | 09:43 |
| vmlintu | something like that would probably be needed | 09:45 |
| alkisg | I think also ebox has some plugins that handle ldap + kerberos... | 09:46 |
| alkisg | I wonder if those could be used | 09:47 |
| ogra | not sure it fulfills the purpose though | 09:47 |
| vmlintu | for the actual user management we have now a web based tool that takes care of ldap+samba+kerberos | 09:47 |
| ogra | ebox is actually a standalone thing for co-location servers i wonder how well it blends in with standard infrastructure | 09:48 |
| alkisg | They're also developing a new ebox-desktop package, that would be able to automatically integrate ubuntu clients to samba or AD... | 09:48 |
| ogra | sweet | 09:48 |
| alkisg | And I think they're also transferring some settings to users with it (empathy accounts etc) | 09:48 |
| vmlintu | I wonder when ubuntu one gets syncronisation working for all user settings.. | 09:53 |
| alkisg | Well currently it just crashes on startup on my lucid box :D | 09:59 |
| alkisg | ogra: do you think it would be a good idea to upload a bunch of ltsp-build-client plugins to the UbuntuLTSP/* wiki? Those that would be useful in some cases, but not generic enough to include upstream... e.g. a "blacklisted-packages" or a "copy-italc-keys" or a "setup-passwordless-ssh" plugin? | 10:02 |
| * alkisg will make a dozen of them in the next few days... | 10:03 | |
| vmlintu | My favourite ltsp hack is a script that loads a file through tftp while the image boots and executes it. Makes it possible to modify the image on the fly just by modifying the file on the server.. | 10:12 |
| ogra | alkisg, and why would you not include them upstream ? | 10:34 |
| ogra | alkisg, if they are useful on ubuntu just include them in the plugins/Ubuntu dir | 10:35 |
| ogra | as long as they are optional | 10:35 |
| alkisg | Nice! OK, I'll do that as long as noone objects. :) | 10:37 |
| vmlintu | alkisg: I put together a quick blog article about what's been happening with user management in the schools that I work with if you are interested: http://www.opinsys.fi/user-management-rethought | 11:36 |
| vmlintu | I try to write more about the details next | 11:36 |
| alkisg | vmlintu: thank you, I'll read it in a while :) | 11:36 |
| Tm_T | vmlintu: nice | 11:45 |
| Tm_T | vmlintu: and hi | 11:45 |
| alkisg | vmlintu: "What’s the killer feature that I’m missing?" ==> a way for the teachers to do all that when sysadmins are not affordable :) | 11:48 |
| vmlintu | Tm_T: thanks | 11:48 |
| vmlintu | alkisg: sounds easy ;) | 11:48 |
| vmlintu | alkisg: actually we have many schools where teachers could never install even firefox in the system themselves, but they are comfortable creating users with the web based tools | 12:13 |
| alkisg | vmlintu: well, as long as those web tools could be installed by a computer teacher, I could use them here as well. | 12:14 |
| alkisg | But if an experienced sysadmin is needed to setup ldap/kerberos/nfs4 and the web tools, so that the teachers can then use them, then good as they might be, these tools are useless to my area... | 12:15 |
| vmlintu | the web tools require now a working kerberos setup before they can be used | 12:16 |
| alkisg | Yes, and currently I don't know of any easy way to install kerberos, that a simple computer teacher could use... | 12:17 |
| vmlintu | I think I have to start working on packaging.. | 12:17 |
| alkisg | :) | 12:17 |
| alkisg | Now you're talking! | 12:17 |
| vmlintu | We are actually coding a new system as described in the article | 12:18 |
| alkisg | Have you seen ebox? Maybe you could join forces? | 12:19 |
| vmlintu | I did evaluate it a while back, but back then it didn't suit our needs. A lot has changed since that, it looks like.. | 12:30 |
| sbalneav | Morning all | 14:52 |
| vmlintu | good afternoon | 15:07 |
| vmlintu | sbalneav: did you read the user management discussion we had earlier with alkisg? | 15:10 |
| sbalneav | No, I didn't. | 15:12 |
| sbalneav | I'll backscroll | 15:12 |
| vmlintu | I've been trying to figure out how to get the stuff we have for user management + ldap + kerberos to be useful for others too | 15:12 |
| sbalneav | Well, some of the stuff that you've done might nicely slot into the plugin architecture I have envisioned for the user management tool I've begun to outline. | 15:13 |
| vmlintu | Just dumping out it would make no sense as it's got too much history load | 15:14 |
| sbalneav | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Specifications/NewUserAdminTool | 15:16 |
| sbalneav | Feel free to add onto the spec | 15:17 |
| vmlintu | Did I understand correctly that the user management tool will be a local application, not a webapp? | 15:17 |
| sbalneav | yes | 15:17 |
| sbalneav | We'd like something that will be useful to plug into System->Administration | 15:18 |
| ogra | vmlintu, you could write a webserver hook/plugin for it if you feel like ;) | 15:18 |
| vmlintu | ogra: hmm.. just separate the gui from the user manipulation part and it should be doable.. | 15:20 |
| ogra | i thought thats the plan | 15:20 |
| sbalneav | right | 15:20 |
| vmlintu | we have now a web app that can do e.g. user mass imports from messy data | 15:21 |
| vmlintu | The main purpose of it is to provide better integration with web apps like moodle, mediawiki and elgg | 15:22 |
| vmlintu | I'd be happy to dump direct ldap connections and use the new outlined tool to create the users in ltsp servers | 15:24 |
| sbalneav | Perfect. | 15:24 |
| sbalneav | Post lucud, we'll start hacking :) | 15:25 |
| vmlintu | Managing users with a local application doesn't really work for us as we need to be able to do it remotely.. | 15:25 |
| ogra | and | 15:25 |
| ogra | if you have a desktop app that is running on every desktop but a backend that connects to the auth server, does that matter | 15:26 |
| vmlintu | we have a pile of separate systems that are administered from a single location | 15:27 |
| vmlintu | so there would need to be a way to select the correct backend | 15:27 |
| ogra | right, but i see no reason why the protocol has to be http | 15:27 |
| ogra | you can have a local UI and have the app talk to the server transparently | 15:28 |
| vmlintu | http came in the picture when we started having schools where admins used windows boxes to create the users.. | 15:28 |
| ogra | and sure, if the remote option is enabled and you have multiple servers to maintain, it should be possible to enasble such a feature | 15:28 |
| sbalneav | vmlintu: Well, it may just be that the tool we're outlining doesn't work for you in your situation. | 15:29 |
| sbalneav | It's impossible to make a tool be all things to all people. | 15:29 |
| vmlintu | sbalneav: I'm hoping that it would work at least partly. If there'd be a way to create two front-ends to it, I could get quite a bit work done for the backend connections too | 15:30 |
| mhall119|work | you can always X-forward the tool from the machine it runs on to a remote display | 15:31 |
| vmlintu | What I'd have now ready is a set of ldap schemas that works for schools at least over here. Kerberos setup works also using ldap as backend. And perl code to manage the ldap. | 15:31 |
| vmlintu | I'll start going through things next week and see what the current needs here actually are. I hope I can clean the existing scripts to help others too on this.. | 16:02 |
| * highvoltage stumbles in after being stuck in traffic for a few hours | 16:36 | |
| dgroos | I'd like to try to get italc working, again, and I'm pretty sure I need to get completely rid of current italc stuff. Is there a better way than typing, "locate italc" which gives me a list of all files that have that string in their name, then "sudo rm" each one? I hope... | 16:53 |
| alkisg | dgroos: sudo rm -rf /etc/italc | 17:12 |
| alkisg | sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/italc | 17:12 |
| dgroos | alkisg: cool, thanks, then I'll try a 'sudo apt-get install italc-master'. | 17:13 |
| dgroos | Also, what's your phd gonna be about? | 17:14 |
| alkisg | dgroos: right, and after the installation reboot everything (including the server) and see if it works | 17:14 |
| alkisg | My phd will be about automatically converting from pseudocode <=> diagrams... I have an IDE for pseudocode, I'll add diagrams + conversion techniques and then study how that could help kids learning programming | 17:16 |
| alkisg | (flowcharts) | 17:17 |
| dgroos | Would this be some form of graphical programming (i.e. not so much text based)? | 17:18 |
| dgroos | Tools like this don't already exist? How's it different? | 17:19 |
| alkisg | Screenshots of my existing tool are here: | 17:20 |
| alkisg | http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/screenshots/ | 17:20 |
| alkisg | The new thing is that it'll automatically convert from pseudocode to flowchart, and vice-versa. There aren't any proper tools for this, and whatever little is out there has not been studied as part of some research.. | 17:21 |
| dgroos | Bable fish chickened out of translating the page, but google translate did this: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.sch.gr%2Falkisg%2Fscreenshots%2F&sl=el&tl=en Which, I somewhat understood. Cool idea. Though I'm not a coder, seems like a great tool if you can get the quick feedback, in a visual way. | 17:31 |
| dgroos | alkisg: shouldn't I also get rid of: .italc stuff, /usr/lib/italc (and in chroot) and /opt/ltsp/i386/share/ltsp/xintrc.d/I15-italc? | 17:35 |
| alkisg | dgroos: no, ignore those, the keys are what's causing trouble to most users | 17:38 |
| dgroos | 'k | 17:38 |
| dgroos | As an aside, sort of, does it matter if I run the install command from a thin client or from the server? | 17:39 |
| alkisg | No, except that in both cases you need to logoff for the program to run. Well just reboot everything when you're done to be sure :) | 17:40 |
| dgroos | alkisg: Do I need to get infront of the server or should I be able to start italc from NX access to the server? I'm trying to do italc via NX access to the server and get key pair issues. | 18:27 |
| dgroos | In other words, is my authentication issue with italc related to my NX access to the server? | 18:27 |
| alkisg | dgroos: no NX shouldn't be a problem. Try this: avahi-browse -trp _italc._tcp | 18:34 |
| alkisg | ...and paste the results to pastebin | 18:34 |
| dgroos_ | alkisg: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/360813/ | 18:39 |
| dgroos_ | I ran it on the NX, should I do on the thin client? matter? | 18:40 |
| alkisg | =;eth0;IPv4;italc\032ltsp61;_italc._tcp;local;ltsp61.local;192.168.0.61;5900;"ltsp61" | 18:44 |
| alkisg | ==> italc is NOT uninstalled from the chroot | 18:44 |
| alkisg | You should remove it from the chroot, and rebuild your image | 18:45 |
| dgroos | should I have run an update of image before/after install? | 18:45 |
| alkisg | Either that, or properly copy the keys to the chroot... | 18:45 |
| alkisg | No | 18:45 |
| alkisg | You should have ran an update after you removed it from the chroot, | 18:45 |
| dgroos | after I copy the keys, update chroot? | 18:46 |
| alkisg | dgroos: weren't you trying the "only install it on the server" method? | 18:46 |
| alkisg | To try that, you need to remove italc from the chroot | 18:46 |
| alkisg | You didn't remove it... | 18:46 |
| dgroos | OK, I'll remove all italc-ish stuff first! | 18:47 |
| alkisg | dgroos: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get purge italc-client libitalc | 18:50 |
| alkisg | and sudo ltsp-update-image | 18:50 |
| dgroos_ | will do! | 18:56 |
| sbalneav | Holy Dinah! | 19:30 |
| sbalneav | Alkis goes for a bug-closing spree! | 19:31 |
| sbalneav | \o/ | 19:31 |
| sbalneav | Man, all I need to do is check if we've cut new LTSP packages since the bug day, and then a bunch of those "Fix Committed"'s become Fix Released | 19:33 |
| sbalneav | and LTSP will no longer be the buggiest package | 19:33 |
| sbalneav | pitivitiitvitivitittiititvi will be. | 19:34 |
| dgroos_ | alkisg: OK--tried the: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get purge italc-client libitalc and got the message (along with some other things): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/360833/ | 19:45 |
| dgroos_ | (I belatedly note that alkisg went to bed...) anyone, do you know if this line of output: is a problem: Can not write log, openpty() failed (/dev/pts not mounted?)? | 19:58 |
| * mhall119|work isn't fond of pitivi | 20:23 | |
| * mhall119|work likes OpenShot better | 20:23 | |
| alincoln | dgroos_: not a problem as far as i know | 20:57 |
| dgroos_ | alincoln: thanks. I've been working on this italc thing, didn't work again so am removing every 'italc' containing file (except the launchpad stuff of course). | 20:58 |
| alincoln | gotcha. i see that message when doing package stuff inside the chroot all the time, and it's nothing to worry about | 20:59 |
| dgroos_ | cool. | 21:00 |
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