[02:45] HedgeMage: ping :) [03:00] dhillon-v10: pong [03:01] HedgeMage: I'll try and finish all the bugs tnoight, my exams are over yay!! [03:02] lol yay :) [03:31] HedgeMage: https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bug/504554 is this one done ? [03:32] Ubuntu bug 504554 in edubuntu-website "check comment module configuration" [Undecided,Confirmed] [03:33] dhillon-v10: not afaik...but I'm not sure what the folks here want as far as a comment set-up either [03:38] HedgeMage: I enabled the advanced_forum module, and the other little modules that do with it, can you go ahead and have a look on the website, and tell me what needs to be done for the taxonomy module [03:46] dhillon-v10: give me a sec to set up what we'll need for the forum <--> mailing list bridge, then we'll attack the rest of the advanced_forum stuff together...it takes a bit of config magic [03:46] HedgeMage: can you tell me what changes you are making, I want to learn more about these modules :) [03:47] dhillon-v10: If you give me a minute to have my housemate forward some ports I can set up a VNC session for you to watch :) [03:48] dhillon-v10: sound like a plan? [03:48] HedgeMage: great :) [03:48] do you have a jabber client that can handle voice chat, or failing that, Skype? [03:49] HedgeMage: nope, I have google talk though but that doesn't support voice thing, but there is epiphany [03:49] *empathy [03:50] HedgeMage: wait i can use video stuff in empathy [03:51] hold on a sec, hollaring @ housemate :) [03:53] dhillon-v10: I need to switch WMs (flux has been acting odd with VNC lately) so bear with me another minute :) [03:54] HedgeMage: np :) [04:01] dhillon-v10: okay, on gnome, turned off my pretty desktop and all transparency so as to save bandwidth [04:02] dhillon-v10: are we using jabber or skype? [04:03] HedgeMage: oh wait, jabber I think. [04:03] my jabber ID is hedgemage@jabber.binaryredneck.net so just add me and initiate a voice chat when ready [04:05] welcome back, dhillon-v10 [04:05] my jabber ID is hedgemage@jabber.binaryredneck.net so just add me and initiate a voice chat when ready [04:05] HedgeMage: yeah, I got that message don't worry that's other me [04:06] grr... do you have skype? I'm using the development version of gajim and it's getting crashy when I turn on Jingle [04:06] not sure why [04:07] HedgeMage: do I need a web-cam, I just broke mine like yesterday [04:07] nope, was just planning on voice and VNC [04:07] (VNC lets you view my screen as I work) [04:07] HedgeMage: wait so you are running Ubuntu right, i know about VNC and I see you in jabber, but if you have empathy you just have to right click and then share desktop [04:08] I have no idea wtf empathy is [04:08] * HedgeMage sees if it is installed [04:08] HedgeMage: you know what sorry for all that trouble, let's not worry about that, sorry again for wasting a lot of time on that [04:09] no, don't be sorry, I'm looking up empathy now :) [04:09] I don't exactly have a stock ubuntu system here... I've been at this since 1994 so I don't play with all the new gui toys that often [04:10] HedgeMage: brb gotta eat dinner :) [04:10] ok [04:22] HedgeMage: back, dinner was good, did you eat yet ? [04:27] dhillon-v10: Yep, a while ago...the steaks were cheap and not that good, but OMG the fresh baked bread! [04:33] dhillon-v10: ping? [04:36] HedgeMage: pong :) sorry working on this critical bug that could screw up a lot in kde [04:37] np [04:42] dhillon-v10: we can do this later if you like [04:53] HedgeMage: sure, right now edubuntu bugs and kde bugs, vnc stuff later on then :) [04:57] That's a plan [04:58] HedgeMage: alright I scrolled through the site permissions and they seem to be fine :) [05:01] HedgeMage: can you run the update script, thanks another one (site-docs) down :) [05:01] HedgeMage: here: http://edubuntu.frogandowl.org/admin/build/sitedoc [05:02] update script? New modules don't require that, just updates to existing code [05:02] * HedgeMage is confused [05:03] HedgeMage: ahh okay, I was talking about the update.php or something like that [05:03] update.php only runs when we change something (module or drupal core) to a newer version [05:03] cron.php should run occassionally, but you can do that manually from the status page [05:04] (it'll run automatically in production, but running it say during a git commit is bad so we do it manually during development) [05:05] HedgeMage: ahh okay :) we have about 4 more to go yay!!! help me with this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bug/504556 [05:05] Ubuntu bug 504556 in edubuntu-website "check path module configuration" [Undecided,Confirmed] [05:05] dhillon-v10: leave that for now, I have a question on site organization for highvoltage first [05:08] dhillon-v10: pm? [05:08] HedgeMage: okay then, i am working on the last one I can (the rest are yours: design new theme and feedback stuff) its the php filter one [05:08] HedgeMage: sure :) [07:27] Good morning all [09:04] morning [09:05] The user management discussion yesterday looks interesting. [09:05] I'm just looking in to ways how I could get involved in it.. [09:19] vmlintu: you'd better wait till sbalneav shows up and talk to him... [09:20] It's a post-Lucid goal... how do you think you could contribute? coding? configuration examples? [09:21] We are now running ldap+kerberos+nfs4 with ltsp/fat clients, so I could get some working examples out [09:21] "fat" clients or standalone workstations? [09:22] pxe booting fat clients on top of ltsp [09:22] Wow, nice... did you use nubae's script for that, or is it something custom-made? [09:22] I'm now also working on coding new user management tool to better integrate moodle+elgg+mediawiki+what else with schools' user databases [09:22] The code will be out next week, I hope [09:23] The fat client stuff is custom made as it's running kerberos+nfs4 [09:24] I guess with the new fat plugin you could do the same by configuring kerberos+nfs4 on the ltsp server only... [09:24] Anyway, sbalneav's your man for this :) [09:25] We had to go with nfs4 as sshfs caused too many problems.. [09:25] What problems? [09:25] some of the applications didn't work as they didn't like sshfs [09:26] Did you try with SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=True|False? [09:26] Is that in karmic? [09:27] Not sure... maybe a few weeks _after_ karmic was released... [09:28] I think the problem was with file locking [09:28] Some applications just refused to start as they couldn't read and write in user's home [09:29] We are not running karmic ltsp in production, so I haven't tried sshfs with it [09:29] Right, I had that with googleearth and I solved it with SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS [09:29] ok, I'll have to have a look at it [09:30] I'm not sure how old is that parameter, it might even be in hardy... [09:30] grep your sources for it [09:30] I remember there also being some performance issues with large files also, but I cannot remember everything anymore [09:31] But we settled with kerberos so that we got single sign on working with firefox also [09:31] Yeah sure sshfs=encrypted=safe=slow, nfs=unencrypted=unsafe=fast... [09:31] vmlintu: do you think such a solution could be packaged and be easily used in e.g. small schools? [09:32] nfs4 supports encryption [09:32] And it's faster than sshfs? wow.. [09:34] If sshfs is used and the actual home directory is on a file server that is mounted through an ltsp server, it gets transferred twice, before it gets to the client.. [09:34] With nfs you can mount it directly from the same server where ltsp server gets it from [09:35] We got now working scripts to get all this working on ubuntu quite easily. [09:37] Getting mediawiki+moodle+elgg working with single sign on is the next step. Having the kerberos ticket is a killer here.. [09:39] So yes, I'm really hoping to get it all working also for small setups. Though, I doubt that this could be made as the default setup as debugging possible problems is a pain [09:40] It doesn't have to be the default setup... if it was e.g. as easy as `sudo apt-get install edubuntu-nfs-ldap-kerberos-server` [09:41] it has to be upgradeable though and match the packaging standards (i.e. not modify config files etc) [09:41] i would suggest a wikipage howto with the scripts attached for a start ;) [09:42] The last part is the problem now. The scripts mess with the config files big time.. [09:42] right, yxou can work around that by enhancing the packages but that takes time [09:42] i.e. make them read a /etc/.d/ directory and grab configs from there [09:43] so that you only have to dump config files in there that override the packaged version [09:45] something like that would probably be needed [09:46] I think also ebox has some plugins that handle ldap + kerberos... [09:47] I wonder if those could be used [09:47] not sure it fulfills the purpose though [09:47] for the actual user management we have now a web based tool that takes care of ldap+samba+kerberos [09:48] ebox is actually a standalone thing for co-location servers i wonder how well it blends in with standard infrastructure [09:48] They're also developing a new ebox-desktop package, that would be able to automatically integrate ubuntu clients to samba or AD... [09:48] sweet [09:48] And I think they're also transferring some settings to users with it (empathy accounts etc) [09:53] I wonder when ubuntu one gets syncronisation working for all user settings.. [09:59] Well currently it just crashes on startup on my lucid box :D [10:02] ogra: do you think it would be a good idea to upload a bunch of ltsp-build-client plugins to the UbuntuLTSP/* wiki? Those that would be useful in some cases, but not generic enough to include upstream... e.g. a "blacklisted-packages" or a "copy-italc-keys" or a "setup-passwordless-ssh" plugin? [10:03] * alkisg will make a dozen of them in the next few days... [10:12] My favourite ltsp hack is a script that loads a file through tftp while the image boots and executes it. Makes it possible to modify the image on the fly just by modifying the file on the server.. [10:34] alkisg, and why would you not include them upstream ? [10:35] alkisg, if they are useful on ubuntu just include them in the plugins/Ubuntu dir [10:35] as long as they are optional [10:37] Nice! OK, I'll do that as long as noone objects. :) [11:36] alkisg: I put together a quick blog article about what's been happening with user management in the schools that I work with if you are interested: http://www.opinsys.fi/user-management-rethought [11:36] I try to write more about the details next [11:36] vmlintu: thank you, I'll read it in a while :) [11:45] vmlintu: nice [11:45] vmlintu: and hi [11:48] vmlintu: "What’s the killer feature that I’m missing?" ==> a way for the teachers to do all that when sysadmins are not affordable :) [11:48] Tm_T: thanks [11:48] alkisg: sounds easy ;) [12:13] alkisg: actually we have many schools where teachers could never install even firefox in the system themselves, but they are comfortable creating users with the web based tools [12:14] vmlintu: well, as long as those web tools could be installed by a computer teacher, I could use them here as well. [12:15] But if an experienced sysadmin is needed to setup ldap/kerberos/nfs4 and the web tools, so that the teachers can then use them, then good as they might be, these tools are useless to my area... [12:16] the web tools require now a working kerberos setup before they can be used [12:17] Yes, and currently I don't know of any easy way to install kerberos, that a simple computer teacher could use... [12:17] I think I have to start working on packaging.. [12:17] :) [12:17] Now you're talking! [12:18] We are actually coding a new system as described in the article [12:19] Have you seen ebox? Maybe you could join forces? [12:30] I did evaluate it a while back, but back then it didn't suit our needs. A lot has changed since that, it looks like.. [14:52] Morning all [15:07] good afternoon [15:10] sbalneav: did you read the user management discussion we had earlier with alkisg? [15:12] No, I didn't. [15:12] I'll backscroll [15:12] I've been trying to figure out how to get the stuff we have for user management + ldap + kerberos to be useful for others too [15:13] Well, some of the stuff that you've done might nicely slot into the plugin architecture I have envisioned for the user management tool I've begun to outline. [15:14] Just dumping out it would make no sense as it's got too much history load [15:16] https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Specifications/NewUserAdminTool [15:17] Feel free to add onto the spec [15:17] Did I understand correctly that the user management tool will be a local application, not a webapp? [15:17] yes [15:18] We'd like something that will be useful to plug into System->Administration [15:18] vmlintu, you could write a webserver hook/plugin for it if you feel like ;) [15:20] ogra: hmm.. just separate the gui from the user manipulation part and it should be doable.. [15:20] i thought thats the plan [15:20] right [15:21] we have now a web app that can do e.g. user mass imports from messy data [15:22] The main purpose of it is to provide better integration with web apps like moodle, mediawiki and elgg [15:24] I'd be happy to dump direct ldap connections and use the new outlined tool to create the users in ltsp servers [15:24] Perfect. [15:25] Post lucud, we'll start hacking :) [15:25] Managing users with a local application doesn't really work for us as we need to be able to do it remotely.. [15:25] and [15:26] if you have a desktop app that is running on every desktop but a backend that connects to the auth server, does that matter [15:27] we have a pile of separate systems that are administered from a single location [15:27] so there would need to be a way to select the correct backend [15:27] right, but i see no reason why the protocol has to be http [15:28] you can have a local UI and have the app talk to the server transparently [15:28] http came in the picture when we started having schools where admins used windows boxes to create the users.. [15:28] and sure, if the remote option is enabled and you have multiple servers to maintain, it should be possible to enasble such a feature [15:29] vmlintu: Well, it may just be that the tool we're outlining doesn't work for you in your situation. [15:29] It's impossible to make a tool be all things to all people. [15:30] sbalneav: I'm hoping that it would work at least partly. If there'd be a way to create two front-ends to it, I could get quite a bit work done for the backend connections too [15:31] you can always X-forward the tool from the machine it runs on to a remote display [15:31] What I'd have now ready is a set of ldap schemas that works for schools at least over here. Kerberos setup works also using ldap as backend. And perl code to manage the ldap. [16:02] I'll start going through things next week and see what the current needs here actually are. I hope I can clean the existing scripts to help others too on this.. [16:36] * highvoltage stumbles in after being stuck in traffic for a few hours [16:53] I'd like to try to get italc working, again, and I'm pretty sure I need to get completely rid of current italc stuff. Is there a better way than typing, "locate italc" which gives me a list of all files that have that string in their name, then "sudo rm" each one? I hope... [17:12] dgroos: sudo rm -rf /etc/italc [17:12] sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/italc [17:13] alkisg: cool, thanks, then I'll try a 'sudo apt-get install italc-master'. [17:14] Also, what's your phd gonna be about? [17:14] dgroos: right, and after the installation reboot everything (including the server) and see if it works [17:16] My phd will be about automatically converting from pseudocode <=> diagrams... I have an IDE for pseudocode, I'll add diagrams + conversion techniques and then study how that could help kids learning programming [17:17] (flowcharts) [17:18] Would this be some form of graphical programming (i.e. not so much text based)? [17:19] Tools like this don't already exist? How's it different? [17:20] Screenshots of my existing tool are here: [17:20] http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/screenshots/ [17:21] The new thing is that it'll automatically convert from pseudocode to flowchart, and vice-versa. There aren't any proper tools for this, and whatever little is out there has not been studied as part of some research.. [17:31] Bable fish chickened out of translating the page, but google translate did this: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.sch.gr%2Falkisg%2Fscreenshots%2F&sl=el&tl=en Which, I somewhat understood. Cool idea. Though I'm not a coder, seems like a great tool if you can get the quick feedback, in a visual way. [17:35] alkisg: shouldn't I also get rid of: .italc stuff, /usr/lib/italc (and in chroot) and /opt/ltsp/i386/share/ltsp/xintrc.d/I15-italc? [17:38] dgroos: no, ignore those, the keys are what's causing trouble to most users [17:38] 'k [17:39] As an aside, sort of, does it matter if I run the install command from a thin client or from the server? [17:40] No, except that in both cases you need to logoff for the program to run. Well just reboot everything when you're done to be sure :) [18:27] alkisg: Do I need to get infront of the server or should I be able to start italc from NX access to the server? I'm trying to do italc via NX access to the server and get key pair issues. [18:27] In other words, is my authentication issue with italc related to my NX access to the server? [18:34] dgroos: no NX shouldn't be a problem. Try this: avahi-browse -trp _italc._tcp [18:34] ...and paste the results to pastebin [18:39] alkisg: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/360813/ [18:40] I ran it on the NX, should I do on the thin client? matter? [18:44] =;eth0;IPv4;italc\032ltsp61;_italc._tcp;local;ltsp61.local;192.168.0.61;5900;"ltsp61" [18:44] ==> italc is NOT uninstalled from the chroot [18:45] You should remove it from the chroot, and rebuild your image [18:45] should I have run an update of image before/after install? [18:45] Either that, or properly copy the keys to the chroot... [18:45] No [18:45] You should have ran an update after you removed it from the chroot, [18:46] after I copy the keys, update chroot? [18:46] dgroos: weren't you trying the "only install it on the server" method? [18:46] To try that, you need to remove italc from the chroot [18:46] You didn't remove it... [18:47] OK, I'll remove all italc-ish stuff first! [18:50] dgroos: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get purge italc-client libitalc [18:50] and sudo ltsp-update-image [18:56] will do! [19:30] Holy Dinah! [19:31] Alkis goes for a bug-closing spree! [19:31] \o/ [19:33] Man, all I need to do is check if we've cut new LTSP packages since the bug day, and then a bunch of those "Fix Committed"'s become Fix Released [19:33] and LTSP will no longer be the buggiest package [19:34] pitivitiitvitivitittiititvi will be. [19:45] alkisg: OK--tried the: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get purge italc-client libitalc and got the message (along with some other things): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/360833/ [19:58] (I belatedly note that alkisg went to bed...) anyone, do you know if this line of output: is a problem: Can not write log, openpty() failed (/dev/pts not mounted?)? [20:23] * mhall119|work isn't fond of pitivi [20:23] * mhall119|work likes OpenShot better [20:57] dgroos_: not a problem as far as i know [20:58] alincoln: thanks. I've been working on this italc thing, didn't work again so am removing every 'italc' containing file (except the launchpad stuff of course). [20:59] gotcha. i see that message when doing package stuff inside the chroot all the time, and it's nothing to worry about [21:00] cool.