[00:31] nixternal: you around? [00:31] Can anyone post/reply to the kubuntu-devel mailing list, or is it more aimed for internal communication between Kubuntu devs? (Wanted to add to the ktorrent thread that just opened.) [00:32] Go ahead and post my friend [00:44] Quintasan: JontheEchidna kimpanel is ready for upload, I have pushed those chanches needed into kdeplasma-addons === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [00:53] freeflying: we know, I merged your changes for next packaging release (RC2) and I assigned credits to you [00:53] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdeplasma-addons/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/changelog [00:55] Lex79: cool, thx [00:55] no problem [00:56] thx for your changes [01:18] DarkwingDuck: yo yo [01:18] What's up my friend? [01:18] Now that the Camp is over I'm back again :D [01:19] waiting for my pizza...putting some models together for my nephews [01:19] how was camp? [01:19] Camp was good. Talk on Documentation went VERY well [01:19] groovy [01:20] They taped it... when I get the link I'll toss it out there. [01:20] there was a talk about Docs VS wikis that it sparked [01:21] lovely [01:21] let me guess, people want to develop docs on the wiki and then use this magical piece of shit that converts it to docbook? [01:21] IT wasn't as bad as the ML was getting [01:22] No actually, it was more of an Anti-wiki feel [01:22] groovy, then Phil and I got out point across 2 or 3 years ago [01:22] and figuring out how to post the docs onto the web for view [01:22] that is done automatically at docs.kde.org [01:23] kubuntu is vanelia enough to take the docs I write for Kubuntu I can submit to KDE with minor tweaking correct? [01:24] yes [01:26] you can also setup a vm, and just install the kde-full package in a vm or on top of a terminal/minimal install only as well [01:26] Okay, sweet [01:27] I'm redoing the Netbook docs and finishing up the other docs from the ToDo list [01:32] DarkwingDuck: How was Camp and where are my pictures damnit! [01:38] LOL I'll be getting the pictures and the video of all of the presentations === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [03:36] oh jjesse you little ass! I see you trying to sneak karmic docs on me [03:36] that's how i roll [03:37] jjesse: if you want to work on some lucid docs, grab a couple of mine [03:37] sure give me one [03:37] I have already started communications [03:37] network or printing, your choice [03:37] nixternal: the reason that i gave the mto you is that understand the process [03:38] I would say "config-desktop" needs to be worked on, as I don't think blizzz is around [03:38] ok i'll work on config-desktop [03:38] jjesse: change out blizzz's name on Kubuntu/Todo/Lucid with yours please [03:38] nixternal: wasn't I supposed to work on communication [03:38] nixternal: :) [03:38] next week I am cracking the whip...if they don't have it done, they lose it [03:39] dhillon-v10: do you have anything on communication done? [03:39] nixternal: ahh okay :) I'll finish all my work today, exams are over yay!!!! [03:39] plus, you have plenty to finish byb next week [03:39] as do I...grr [03:39] nixternal: true, but no more exams and I get 3 days off [03:39] lucky you :) [03:40] nixternal: are you taking exams? for what? [03:40] tomorrow I will be working on Karmic docs and translations, all damn day long [03:40] jjesse: I take it you manully added the pot files to LP for translation? [03:40] nixternal: i haven't done anything w/ pot files [03:40] nixternal: translations can be a *huge* pain [03:40] i have fixed all the bugs that are out there [03:41] for karmic [03:41] oh, so now all of the templates need to be uploaded? [03:41] damn...you could do that, it is easy :) [03:41] nixternal: oh I am down to 6 bugs in kubuntu-website, isn't that awesome :) [03:41] regenerate the potfiles and upload them one-by-one using that add button in LP [03:41] by the time any translations get done, Karmic will be EOL [03:42] jjesse: did you change a lot of strings? [03:42] some in several diffferent files [03:43] just amade it harder didn't i? [03:44] well....hrmm [03:44] I am looking at Karmic translations, some have been touching translations since release, though there are quite a few that haven't been touched since 2008 [03:45] that sucks [03:46] that's why I have been pissed about translations...not lp faults at all, people just aren't translating [03:46] grumble [03:47] nixternal: can the translations be reused, that might make your life easy, and I'll help you what do i need to do, upload some templates [03:48] so I have to dl an entire tarball for say, about-kubuntu, that has a po file for every language that LP supports, then I have to build it, then I have to fix so much stuff because people love translating tags for some reason..then I get those fixed to where they can be tested, to only find out there are probably 10 at best that are at least 60% complete [03:48] dhillon-v10: yes they can, but it doesn't do shit for making anything easier [03:48] people will translate like 1 line or some shit, so it gets marked as changed and included in the tarball [03:49] nixternal: alirght I guess that I'll help you :) you have been helping me all the time, so I guess this time I can do something, so in short what can I do [03:49] *then [03:49] jeesh, people are still translating karmic strings [03:50] why? they won't get updated will they? [03:50] there should be a way to freeze lp translations [03:53] about-kubuntu is broken [03:56] thats the href i didn't know how to fix correct? [03:57] no, this is messed up with sect1 and sect2's out of place [03:57] trying to figure that one out [03:58] oh ok [03:59] nixternal: what a nice way to say I am marking this bug invalid because this feature is useless, it really is because this guy is talking about the date change in 1924 [03:59] nixternal: here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69102 [03:59] KDE bug 69102 in kdecore "Switching from Jullian to Gregorian did not happen the same date for all countries" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed] [04:01] * jjesse beds drop me a message with questions/concerns [04:02] jjesse: so I should leave that one alone then [04:03] fixed [04:04] jjesse: I just removed those 2 xrefs from hardware [04:15] jjesse: uploaded translation pot files to LP [04:20] jjesse: sent email to translation coordinators letting them know there are 18 new templates awaying approval...also asked them to remove 2 templates that are bogus and tend to break things even more when I go to do the translation packaging. [04:37] nixternal: something really important I just noticed, lucid is going to get HAL removed right, Solid depends on that and it crashes it HAL isn't found how are we going to deal with that [04:47] Does searching for even simple things work for you with nepomuk on? [07:00] oook, this time I only had to plug in the keyboard 8 times, after reboot [07:00] not too bad [07:00] criminey! [07:00] 10 was the record, I think [07:06] whys isnt quassel good enough for lucid? [07:07] what are the alternatives ? [07:09] Konversation === Quintasan1 is now known as Quintasan [07:36] sup? [08:59] Riddell: ping [09:01] Upgraded my desktop to from Karmic to Lucid. Only failure so far (haven't rebooted yet) is this one http://pastebin.ca/1761297 [09:02] I worked around it with "sudo dpkg -r --force-depends kdepim-runtime-libs4" [09:02] Is this a known/fixed bug? [09:02] should I report it on LP? [09:19] ok, time for a reboot [10:06] hrm, is there any way to give a specific application a different theme to the rest of them? [10:25] jussi01: yes, myapp -style [10:25] agateau: does that go for coulors also? [10:25] colours [10:25] jussi01: what do you mean? [10:26] agateau: ie. can I have my irc client in dark colours, and the rest in the default theme coulors? [10:26] jussi01: oh, color schemes [10:26] jussi01: not sure about this [10:26] yeah [10:26] * jussi01 prays an hopes [10:26] I don't think so :/ [10:27] * jussi01 goes to ask in #kde [10:27] jussi01: except if you go crazy and create a .qss file [10:28] agateau: yeah, Ive a qss file for it, but got to figure out then how to change the border parts :D [10:31] * jussi01 would just like to apply the theme for this one app, ie. obsidian coast and keep the rest as kubuntu defaults [10:31] jussi01: there may be a hackish way to do so: [10:32] create a different .kde folder for it [10:32] and start it with KDEHOME=/my/dark/.kde myapp [10:32] not sure it would work [10:33] hrm, that may work.. [10:33] * jussi01 thinks furiously [10:37] Riddell, ScottK: Keybuk suggested that I postpone the creation of a plymouth theme package for Kubuntu as things will change soon upstream as regards as theme selection [10:43] jussi01: talking about Quassel? [10:43] you can change the color of all UI elements in Qt/KDE apps [10:43] Sput: yeah, I am. [10:43] just need to figure out the appropriate qss incantations :) [10:44] Sput: hang on, screenie coming.. :D [10:44] for general widgety stuff, QWidget { ... } could work [10:46] http://jussi01.com/upload/uploads/20100122-124607-snapshot2.png [10:46] Riddell, [11:05] Tm_T: did you take the hint and join a different freenode server? :) [11:38] Riddell: nah, irssi did it itself [11:43] actually it was pleasantly calm before reconnection (; [11:58] Hrm, has anyone installed todays daily? [11:59] ie. is lucid installable atm [11:59] unlikely [12:00] Riddell: unlikely someones tried it or unlikely its installable? [12:01] unlikely anyone has tried it [12:03] Riddell: ^^^^ [12:03] in case you missed my message [12:07] tseliot: right, thanks, I guess we'll wait then [12:07] * tseliot nods [12:36] ScottK: re bug 487415 I think the correct solution is to add a build-dep on zlib to quassel [12:36] Launchpad bug 487415 in qt4-x11 "libqt4-dev missing depends on zlib1g-dev" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487415 [12:37] Riddell: OK. I filed that before the recent discussion openssl, so OK. I agree [13:52] Riddell: got my message this morning about libkdepim problem during upgrade? [13:52] agateau: oh yes sorry, I need to look at that [13:52] will be just a missing replaces somewhere [13:53] agateau: how did you upgrade, just changed sources.list and dist-upgrade? [13:53] Riddell: yes [13:53] not the correct way? [13:54] agateau: Sput has expressed some interest in supporting the new systray protocol, but has got a complicated situation where he needs to support the old one too for older KDE and Qt builds. Would you be able to help him out a bit with this? [13:54] ScottK: would it be KDE only? [13:55] agateau: Yes. [13:55] agateau: i think the correct way is the do-upgrade and the correct command switch [13:55] Meaning only for the KDE builds. [13:55] ScottK: Then the KDE class KStatusNotifierItem takes care of this [13:55] hmmm... I'd actually prefer it for the Qt builds as well [13:55] jjesse_: never heard of do-upgrade [13:55] agateau: do-release-upgrade -d [13:55] agateau: Nevermind. He can speak for himself. [13:55] * agateau checks whether it's installed here [13:55] to upgrade to the development release === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [13:56] agateau: is Gnome already supporting this protocol in any way? and if they start to, will it still be in the KDE dbus namespace? [13:56] Sput: Canonical is doing a Gnome implementation for Ubuntu Lucid. My understand is that upstream is still TBD. [13:56] Sput: my colleagues at Canonical are working on bringing this to GNOME as well [13:57] agateau: right now I'd prefer to use dbus, since it wouldn't require kdelibs (their namechange mid-4.4 made things nasty too), but I'm not sure which dbus interface to use [13:57] Sput: whether it will be org.kde or org.freedesktop depends on the outcome of current discussions happening on freedesktop ML [13:57] agateau: hmmm, and how would that work then? moving the dbus spec to another namespace (fdo)? [13:57] aaah ok [13:57] so if I used the kde dbus interface now, would that be working in ubuntu for gnome then? [13:57] Sput: yes [13:58] and on non-ubuntu gnome as well [13:58] good to know, so that would probably be the right thing then [13:58] ah? [13:58] oh, no [13:58] I thought you meant the kde class [13:58] no, I mean the dbus interface directly, in order to support proper tray icons for the non-KDE version [13:59] we are not sure for now which dbus namespace is going to be used for Lucid :/ [13:59] I'd rather see support for the new system implemented in Qt, but it's not going to happen soon [13:59] so it's kinda messy I guess [13:59] yeah, that would be preferable [13:59] we're currently using {Q|K}SystemTrayIcon [14:00] You could use {QSystemTrayIcon|KStatusNotifierItem} for now [14:00] that's completely orthogonal to the notification/libindicate stuff, right? [14:00] it's probably the safest thing to do [14:00] rgiht [14:00] right [14:00] ok [14:00] hmm, true [14:00] despite the confusing names on the gnome side :/ [14:01] as stock gnome isn't supporting KDE's spec right now, it probably doesn't make too much sense for Quassel to support it in non-KDE builds [14:01] KStatusNotifierItem would only work in KDE 4.4+ though [14:01] indeed [14:01] we... so would the dbus spec [14:01] *well [14:01] you shouldn't get any regression [14:01] the class changed names between 4.3 and 4.4 [14:02] so you couldn't build against 4.3 [14:02] agateau: do you think we can talk to ted about the gnome library naming? GStatusNotifierItem would be so much better [14:02] Riddell: I don't think so [14:02] agateau: you think he's set on his overly generic name? [14:02] I already made them change from libcustomindicator to libappindicator [14:03] * Sput is glad that he encapsulated the systray stuff in Quassel, so it should be possible to support different backends without changing too much code [14:03] Riddell: not only him, but Jono, the design team, Mark... [14:03] oh well. I still don't see what's wrong with calling it a systray icon [14:03] Sput: smart move [14:03] Riddell: too geeky :) [14:03] Riddell: because it doesn't need to be shown in anything resembling a systray :) [14:03] Riddell: and GNOME never called this a systray [14:04] Riddell: on the gnome side it's called the "notification area" [14:04] they just like to be difficult :) [14:04] :) [14:05] agateau: so there were some blog posts on p.g.o where they were talking about this new systray stuff, highlighting the cooperation with KDE - yet when I checked the code, it looks like they have their own, subtly different dbus interface now, is that true? [14:05] Sput: I am working with ted (the blog author) to get the differences out [14:05] Riddell: you just fail to understand why it is better for users! like with exchanging the order of OK/Cancel compared to any other DE outside! [14:06] let's not be starting a flamewar :) [14:06] agateau: ah, so the goal is still to converge to the same interface, at some point [14:07] Sput: yes, "some point" hopefully being positioned before Lucid release [14:07] oh. that would be soon. [14:07] maybe I should go for using the dbus interface directly then [14:07] renaming that to a different namespace would be less trouble than whipping out yet another backend [14:08] Sput: I would suggest starting with KStatusNotifierItem for now, it's probably less work to do [14:08] and maybe at one point Qt will learn about this new system [14:08] Maybe Canonical will contribute a Qt implementation? [14:11] ScottK: I'd love to [14:11] ScottK: but I'd wait until the dust has settled down [14:11] Agreed. [14:22] hi there [14:23] Riddell: do you have an idea if the support service sold by canonical is available in french or not ? [14:23] if not who may I ask over IRC for this ? [14:23] Tonio_: it is [14:23] Tonio_: support is based in Montréal so they may have an accent :) [14:24] agateau: well this question if for the quebec government :) [14:24] agateau: I work for a canadian company now :) [14:24] Tonio_: oh great then! [14:24] agateau: thanks for the quick response :) [14:27] Tonio_: you're welcome! so you sold Ubuntu (or even better Kubuntu?) to the quebec government? [14:27] agateau: in the work for now :) [14:28] agateau: a desktop project, and we are trying to push ubuntu, but we are not the ones to choose :) [14:28] agateau: just consulting atm [14:29] is kde sc 4.4 rc2 on build? [14:29] Tonio_: great [14:31] Tonio_: yes, that's why it's in Montreal [14:31] e-jat: testers needed [14:32] its at kubuntu ppa beta ? [14:32] Riddell: well that's not obvious, Redhat for example only offers english [14:33] Riddell: but it's true they are in ontario :) [14:34] Riddell: ? [14:34] e-jat: karmic or lucid? [14:34] Riddell: karmic [14:35] e-jat: that source and put results at bottom of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging === ulysses__ is now known as ulysses [14:37] Riddell: thanks .. will do .. [14:39] Riddell: u mean the PPA Testing KDE 4.3.95 column ? [14:40] yes [14:40] ok .. === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === chs_ is now known as chs [15:51] miracle of miracles, today's i386 CD isn't oversized [15:51] just that amd64 to whip into shape [15:52] \o/ [15:52] Riddell: that Choqok upgrade is giving me trouble [15:52] 100% CPU, 2008MB RAM (Virt) usage... [15:53] it does weird things [15:53] now it hangs entirely [15:53] waa [15:53] * markey tries deleting config [15:53] it has done this before, and somehow nuking the config often fixes that, I found [15:53] let's see [15:55] markey: wait, what upgrade? [15:55] Riddell: there came one this morning, from backports or so [15:56] hmm [15:56] wait [15:56] I got that from a PPA [15:56] from neversfelde, I think [15:56] I guess he upgraded it [15:56] that makes sense [15:56] yeah must be neversfelde's archive [15:56] right, sorry for the confusion [15:56] neversfelde never subscribed ubuntu-archive to bug 510244 so it hasn't been synced into the main archive yet [15:56] Launchpad bug 510244 in choqok "Please sync choqok 0.9.4+git20091230-1. (main) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510244 [15:57] This reminds me. [15:57] Riddell: Would you please do the backport in bug 488633. It covers a security fix. [15:57] Launchpad bug 488633 in karmic-backports "Please backport zend-framework 1.9.7-0ubuntu1 from Lucid" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488633 [15:57] ok, deleted the complete ~/.kde/share/apps/choqok [15:58] one "backuprc" file in there had grown to 300Kb, or so [15:58] fishy [15:59] hum, maybe more testing needed before a sync [15:59] grumble backport script can only do one distro release at a time grumble [16:00] ok, nuking this folder seems to have helped [16:00] all back to normal now [16:00] :) [16:00] other than that, Choqok is becoming really nice :) [16:00] great app, I think === yofel_ is now known as yofel [16:02] markey: this isn't an official update, only a snapshot package from latest trunk [16:02] neversfelde: yep, sorry for confusion [16:03] anyway, seems to work fine now [16:03] anyway, it is for testing, because I am still not sure, if it is a good idea to use it in 10.04 [16:03] works fine for me, too [16:03] neversfelde: but I should still do that sync request? === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [16:07] Riddell: I got less negative feedback so far, so the new version seems to be stable and nearly feature complete. I use it myself for a few days now and it is ok for me. The most important argument is, that upstream wants us to ship the new version, so I will subscribe ubuntu-archive to the bug report later. [16:11] neversfelde: I found that Choqok often has issues with handling upgrades correctly. but once you nuke these timeline cache foo files, it works fine again [16:11] dunno if mtux knows about that [16:12] markey: I think he knows, at least I saw a user talking with him about it on identi.ca [16:12] mtux is very busy these days, he's in the army I think [16:13] Riddell: Thanks on the backport. [16:13] yes and there isn't a good network connection in iran, seems that they block ssh ports there. [16:14] ScottK: I kind of remember you told me at UDS if I created a standalone version of the Ayatana notifications you could get them in Lucid, [16:15] agateau: I said I would help you with it, yes. [16:15] ScottK: oh, [16:15] so time for me to learn packaging then [16:15] agateau: A lot of new packages get proposed, but don't get reivewed. [16:16] I can make sure it gets reviewed. [16:16] ScottK: ok [16:16] There are also probably plenty of people here than can help you with the packaging. [16:16] I guess so :) [16:17] I'm also glad to answer questions too. [16:17] ok thanks [16:18] I may give it a try this weekend [16:18] Riddell: Are you going to give the Kubuntu update in the release team meeting? [16:19] ScottK: I have some notes [16:19] bottom of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus [16:20] OK [16:31] Is it only me, or are there still more issues between X and KDE than was in 3.5? [16:42] are the concoles that are acccessible via CTRL-ALT-F1-6 started by KDE or before in the boot process? [16:46] The VTs are started before KDE. [16:46] they're Linux [16:46] good. than it is not a KDE bug :) [16:46] then [16:46] probably plymouth/KMS [16:47] I have none of them starting anymore [16:49] well. I just remember the gettys used to be started in inittab [16:49] now it should be upstart, I would think [16:50] It has been since Edgy [16:50] wow.. I haven't poked around in this stuff for a long time [16:51] Dapper was the last Ubuntu release to install inittab on a new install [16:52] cool.. I can start them simply with service === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [17:03] splitting up network-manager-vpnc should let us get rid of a load of gnomeism on the CD [17:04] I've got rid of gcc and linux-headers [17:04] and openoffice.org-impress on amd64 just for good luck (Ubuntu doesn't ship it although I'd prefer to keep it if we can find space later) [17:05] hmm, I think plasma-widget-lancelot should be a suggests and not a recommends, we don't need that on the CD [17:05] Agreed. [17:06] changed in bzr [17:28] hi all, when packaging an upstream product that has revision history, what happens to the history do I just delete it or make a .orig tarball from all of that and then delete it in the folder that is going to have debian folder in it [17:53] Riddell: i've updated https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging [17:53] kinda having some timeout with the ppa [19:02] nixternal: ping regarding docs. [19:07] yo [19:08] dhillon-v10: yo [19:10] * nixternal wonders if he should document the gnome counterparts for both networking and printing [19:21] nixternal: oh hey, there's a doc. written for samba file sharing that we need in kubuntu in ubuntu-docs, I submitted some patches to it so I was wondering if we could use that docs. making some minor edits and importing the whole thing over at kubuntu, I looked at it and seems like it would work :) [19:21] nixternal: and btw irssi rocks :) [19:33] dhillon-v10: what doc is this? [19:40] nixternal: ubuntu-docs/serverguide/C/windows-networking.xml [19:43] everything in there is related to server functions...I don't mind linking to help.ubuntu.com for it, but pulling it in and having to remember to watch it in lp:ubuntu-docs is a pita [19:43] especially since bzr doesn't do externals [19:47] nixternal: alright so should I write the doc for file sharing from scratch, that's the only thing I wanted to copy over [19:48] I am going to cover it in the network topic [19:48] work on the docs in the todo list, there is less than a week before I close them off and take everyone's documents that aren't complete [19:49] dhillon-v10: oh wait, you are doing the sharing topic, yeah, do that [19:49] incorporate what you need in the sharing document [19:50] nixternal: alright :) [19:50] forgot we had a sharing topic :) [19:51] is there a fix for the choqok Qt Pixmap crash? [19:51] just finished the communications topic, well except for IRC, because I am not going to waste my time documenting an IRC client just for it to be changed in a month [19:56] nixternal: don't worry once you document it they will change it back [19:56] i picked up config last night didn't i? [19:57] yes [19:58] are there "restricted drivers" for ethernet cards or do they all just work? [19:58] * nixternal notes the network topics sucks to write [19:58] There are ones that don't work, but AFAIK we don't provide drivers. They are rare. [19:58] so should i be paying attention to this whole mallard discussion on ubuntu-docs list? [19:59] jjesse: not really [20:04] hey, network mangler doesn't do static right? you have to close nm and then set it up via /etc/network/interfaces right? [20:04] nixternal: thanks i will continue to ignore [20:04] or has that all since changed? [20:04] haven't used static in ages [20:05] nixternal: No. Works fine. [20:05] oh rock on, thanks [20:05] nixternal: Wait. [20:05] I was thinking of something else. [20:06] I have some computers with static DHCP (dhcp always gives them the same IP). I got confused. [20:06] lol [20:06] That's still dhcp as far as the client is concerned [20:06] right, my router does that, so everything is config'd via dhcp anyways [20:09] tomplast: You there? [20:09] Yup [20:09] tomplast: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess is where you start. [20:09] ^^ [20:10] ty [20:10] Do I need to be a Kubuntu member to be able to go through with this? [20:17] is this http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi/Svn_get-orig-source up to date? Do I need to create a get-orig-source rule, when packaging from SVN or git repository? [20:20] tomplast: No. [20:20] tomplast: You need to gather the information asked for in the wiki page and then ask me for a review when you've got it. [20:21] \o [20:22] Quintasan: hi there :) [20:24] dhillon-v10: sup, any problems with phonon-backends? or you did not get to it yet? [20:25] Quintasan: started, but have a question: what happens to all the revision history ?? should that go into the .orig tarball and deleted from the working directory [20:26] dhillon-v10: do you mean .svn directory? [20:26] dhillon-v10: I remove it and I belive it is correct to do so [20:27] find . -name .svn -exec rm -rf {} \; [20:27] dhillon-v10: ^^ [20:27]