[16:33] <thorwil> http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2010/01/21/realism_in_ui_design/
[18:41] <thorwil> vish: hi! what do you think, mail to Humphrey or waiting to catch him on irc?
[18:42] <vish> thorwil: we can mail him , why wait?
[18:43] <thorwil> vish: gives a different feel. but ok ... do you feel like writing something? :)
[18:44] <vish> thorwil: i'm usually not around on irc when he is around , nz timezone is a bit early or late for me ;p
[18:45] <thorwil> vish: i thought you were on 24/7! ^^
[18:45] <vish> thorwil: i'm logged on.. but he isnt ;)
[18:46] <troy_s> What's up guys?
[18:46] <troy_s> How is everyone?
[18:47] <thorwil> troy_s: hi! all 4 of us who submitted manual title page stuff now agree on not continuing like that
[18:47] <troy_s> thorwil: Well good on you guys.
[18:48] <thorwil> i have a nasty sinusitis
[18:48] <troy_s> thorwil: Hopefully you can all bring something to the table. It is difficult to arrive at a solution that a single person, let alone four, can agree upon.
[18:48] <troy_s> But if you keep the goal in sight and try to keep things focused, it might be entirely possible.
[18:50] <thorwil> troy_s: i'm very much willing to step into the background, especially if that helps to get things forward
[18:51] <thorwil> funny how sinusitis seems to be common in english. a direct translation of the usual german term would be nose-side-cavity-inflammation :)
[18:53] <troy_s> thorwil: The trick will be to see if the output will shift.
[18:54] <troy_s> thorwil: If it doesn't, it is all for naught. You have each followed your own paths for a reason. The culmination shouldn't just be a melding of the ideas...
[18:56] <thorwil> troy_s: i thought we just cut the designs in quarters and combine one slice from each of us to for the final
[18:56] <troy_s> Exactly
[18:56] <troy_s> thorwil: Perfect.
[18:57] <troy_s> thorwil: Flop a nice gloss curve on it and a wet floor reflection and you are probably there. Easy on the eyes, usable (if you triple bold and outline the title), and professional.
[18:57] <troy_s> thorwil: Whatever the hell professional means.
[18:57] <thorwil> not to forget a lens flare. very trendy
[18:58] <troy_s> thorwil: Lens flares unfortunately aren't trendy.
[18:59] <thorwil> pah, people just didn't realize they can be combined with the wet floor effect perfectly, yet
[18:59] <troy_s> thorwil: Our little culture has enough problems without adding style. Probably a good start would be "OK... what is a good typeface? Why? Can we develop something solid using _just_ the typeface?" etc.
[19:00] <troy_s> thorwil: Might be a good place to start for you four :)
[19:00] <troy_s> thorwil: Could be an interesting discussion. lol.
[19:02] <thorwil> troy_s: first comes a mail to the project leader. plans to be made after his response, as far as i'm concerned
[19:02] <troy_s> thorwil: Might be an interesting exercise regardless.
[19:03] <troy_s> thorwil: S3 the opaque lynx cover you did.
[19:03] <troy_s> thorwil: I want to see something.
[19:07] <thorwil> i would like to see something that diminishes its likeness with a snail or alien. without introducing the details that would be obvious and a break from the solid shape
[19:09] <troy_s> thorwil: Put it up somehwere.
[19:10] <thorwil> troy_s: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/ubuntu_manual_cover/annotate/head%3A/manual_cover_thorwil.svg
[19:11] <thorwil> troy_s: i've been using launchpad for such things ever since i saw your work for ubuntu-women
[19:11] <troy_s> thorwil: It can be pretty darn useful for group sharing / branching etc.
[19:11] <troy_s> thorwil: It also solves the issue of things vapourizing.
[19:12] <thorwil> troy_s: for me it's mainly offsite backup so far, just with additional potential
[19:12] <troy_s> thorwil: Those phi guides?
[19:13] <thorwil> troy_s: hum?
[19:13] <troy_s> thorwil: In the svg :)
[19:14] <thorwil> yes, they are
[19:20] <troy_s> thorwil: As soon as you start putting critters on the cover of manuals, you are heading down a path of mimicry. It is deadly difficult to avoid that.
[19:20] <troy_s> thorwil: I don't know if it is possible.
[19:24] <thorwil> troy_s: i suspect that once we really think about what that page should get across, there might be no room left for a lynx. however, one could argue about making-contributors-happy being a valid requirement (if there should be a majority that wants a lynx ...)
[19:25] <troy_s> thorwil: If you weigh it against the classic "We are already fighting an uphill battle against outside eyeballs thinking we imitate / replicate / duplicate _all the time_."
[19:26] <thorwil> troy_s: a version number rendered in lynx fur will solve that issue ^^
[19:26] <troy_s> thorwil: We have a big problem culturally as we have developed this nasty 'design presence'... rather like me saying to you "Microsoft is designing a new product" versus "Nintendo is designing a new product" - you have a visceral reaction to both of those statements. That's the design presence.
[19:27] <troy_s> thorwil: If someone says "New Free Software design!", very likely there is a gut-wrenching "oh please not more"
[19:27] <thorwil> gut-wrenching ... that's a strong identity, then
[19:27] <troy_s> thorwil: So avoiding the 'yet-another-connection-to-oreilly-press' is a _very_ obvious pitfall to avoid in my estimation.
[19:27] <troy_s> thorwil: Sure is.
[19:27] <troy_s> :)
[19:28] <troy_s> thorwil: Strong on the wrong side of the metric.
[19:29] <troy_s> thorwil: And also why Ubuntu's little binge into iLame is truly horrible.
[19:30] <thorwil> troy_s: are you referring to the screenshots/tour page?
[19:31] <troy_s> thorwil: Indeed.
[19:39] <coz_> no lynx  ...just my opinion
[19:41] <troy_s> coz_: I'd agree simply on the merits of 1) the lynx aren't adding much 2) the direct link to oreilly press.
[19:42] <coz_> the only reason I say that is I wouldnt like to see  photos of a lynx or photoshoped photos of a lynx
[19:42] <coz_> if it were a  hand drawn quality rendering then maybe
[19:43] <coz_> the outstanding visual feature of a lynx are the tuffed ears
[19:43] <troy_s> coz_: Agree. the lynx there aren't bringing any sort of craftsmanship / artistry to the table.
[19:43] <coz_> maybe thats all that is needed
[19:45] <coz_> in the beginning I was doing animal paintings for ubuntu   ....badges...etc   no one liked them and looking back...even though hand done...they are   "heavy"  to look at
[19:45] <coz_> I nice abstract tastefully done would be
[19:45] <coz_> nice
[19:46] <coz_> I meant "a nice abstract"
[19:47] <coz_> of course no one asked my opinion :)
[19:55] <coz_> dont mind me ... I am somewhat in a bad
[19:55] <coz_> mood
[19:55] <coz_> I am tired
[19:55] <coz_> not typing correctly first :)
[19:55] <coz_> damn fingers
[19:56] <coz_> it's very "easy"  and to the untrained eye..rather "pretty" to use a photo  ,,,ad a filter to it and call it a picture
[19:56] <troy_s> coz_: Sorry to hear that.
[19:57] <coz_> or using the ubuntu symbol   ....way overdone
[19:57] <coz_> both of w hich...in the right hands can yield some very attractive results
[19:57] <coz_> but I havent seen any of that
[19:59] <coz_> I'll stop there before someone challenges me to do better lol
[20:00] <thorwil> damn!
[20:00] <thorwil> ;)
[20:00] <coz_> :)
[20:05] <coz_> ooo I hope I didnt cause the conversation to stop?
[20:06] <troy_s> coz_: No... I'm rendering.
[20:06] <troy_s> lol
[20:06] <coz_> oh phew
[20:06] <troy_s> coz_: I'd agree with you on the 'artistic' side of things... I'm just not exactly certain that animals on book covers delivers much.
[20:07] <troy_s> coz_: Other than the obvious and knee jerk response that anyone in tech knows of - the OReilly connection.
[20:07] <thorwil> the OSX parallel is much more hurtful
[20:08] <coz_> thorwil,  the themeing influence you mean?
[20:08] <troy_s> thorwil: I wouldn't worry about that too much.
[20:08] <thorwil> coz_: a cat for a release version, even the 10 is present
[20:08] <coz_> oh
[20:08] <troy_s> thorwil: It's a book. Context keeps it away from OSX I'd estimate. It _does not_ keep it away from "Learning with Python" :)
[20:08] <coz_> I understand
[20:10] <thorwil> well, i now listed the following reasons against the lynx: hard to get right, O'Reilley, OSX, potentially in conflict with the desired tone
[20:10] <troy_s> thorwil: Probably a pretty good summary. Certainly not easy to 'get right' in terms of an artistic flair to it... it's a rare ability to synthesize that.
[20:11] <troy_s> coz_: Have you been doing anything of late?
[20:11] <thorwil> one could add that the codenames weren't meant to hit mainstream, but that they do might be beneficial. at least as long cats are avoided :)
[20:11] <troy_s> coz_: Abstracts?
[20:12] <troy_s> thorwil: The upside of the codenames is that, at least for hardy, it was an excuse to actually build some sort of bloody emotion into the thing without everyone freaking out. It arguably worked to that end.
[20:12] <thorwil> ack
[20:12] <troy_s> thorwil: Maybe just try the type thing.
[20:13] <troy_s> thorwil: Start with at least _trying_ to get a bare minimum in place and analysing the roots... Kolor's for example, let's you at least go 'Ok... is the type working?' without being distracted by a 100 other things.
[20:14] <troy_s> thorwil: Strip out all of the complex responses (bad composition, bad treatment, bad copy, poor art, etc.)
[20:14] <troy_s> thorwil: And see if you can at least make some hay  there.
[20:14] <troy_s> thorwil: Obviously if you add in another element, you would need to analyse it in context, but at the very least, you at least have a good starting point for figuring out what elements are working on their own.
[20:29] <coz_> troy_s,  something non representational
[20:30] <coz_> did I ever mention I like Odd Nerdrum :)
[20:31] <coz_> the name alone is so cool :)
[20:32] <coz_> ok I have to get to the store and eat supper....sorry for interupping here....they were just my opinions...if I get good and worked up  I may even submit something :)