| === itnet7 is now known as itnet7_meetup | ||
| === itnet7_meetup is now known as itnet7|meetup | ||
| nxlvohyo | Hi all. It seems we are again seeing javascript based flood spam. If you are experiencing this, please do not click the links in the messages as they will cause you to repeat the spam. More information is available at http://peoplesprimary.com. Thanks! | 02:25 |
|---|---|---|
| nxlvohyo | Hi all. It seems we are again seeing javascript based flood spam. If you are experiencing this, please do not click the links in the messages as they will cause you to repeat the spam. More information is available at http://peoplesprimary.com. Thanks! | 02:25 |
| kermiac | don't click the links | 02:26 |
| sevgav | Hi all. It seems we are again seeing javascript based flood spam. If you are experiencing this, please do not click the links in the messages as they will cause you to repeat the spam. More information is available at http://peoplesprimary.com. Thanks! | 02:28 |
| sevgav | Hi all. It seems we are again seeing javascript based flood spam. If you are experiencing this, please do not click the links in the messages as they will cause you to repeat the spam. More information is available at http://peoplesprimary.com. Thanks! | 02:28 |
| kermiac | anyone around that can +R the chan? | 02:30 |
| kermiac | spambots are hitting harder than usual today :( | 02:30 |
| pleia2 | no, we're going to have far too many unregistered new users tomorrow morning :( | 02:32 |
| pleia2 | coming in from lernid and such | 02:32 |
| kermiac | good point :( | 02:38 |
| pleia2 | we'll remove it in the morning | 02:40 |
| kermiac | ok :) | 02:41 |
| andresmujica | ugghhh i'm so stupid.. | 02:50 |
| === itnet7|meetup is now known as itnet7 | ||
| will__ | anyone here | 06:24 |
| will__ | who can help with ubuntu question? | 06:24 |
| nigel_nb | will__, this is not a support channel, please in #ubuntu | 06:25 |
| will__ | i dont understand | 06:25 |
| will__ | saying go to #ubuntu? | 06:25 |
| nigel_nb | will__, yeah, sorry, mistyping.. please ask in #ubuntu | 06:25 |
| will__ | ok | 06:26 |
| will__ | thanks | 06:26 |
| === jjmde is now known as garyniger4354 | ||
| robertneville777 | 08:30 | |
| robertneville777 | whatsup fellow students! | 08:30 |
| robertneville777 | ok | 08:31 |
| === nigel_nb is now known as Guest58748 | ||
| === nigelbabu is now known as Guest19591 | ||
| Ghoul | alright | 09:51 |
| Ghoul | here is where it's coming from | 09:52 |
| === jesgar_ is now known as jesgar | ||
| ubu_ | hi | 11:10 |
| bittin | hi | 11:10 |
| ubu_ | what time does the user day start? | 11:10 |
| AlanBell | in 50 minutes | 11:11 |
| yofel | in 50 minutes | 11:11 |
| issyl0 | Oh awesome :) | 11:11 |
| yofel | heh | 11:11 |
| Yos | T minus 40 minutes | 11:18 |
| Yos | lol | 11:18 |
| cjohnston | everyone who is here for User Days, tweet, identi.ca, post about it in your loco channels, facebook, whatever else you use.. (smoke signals if you like) to get people to come join us! | 11:19 |
| popey | cjohnston: is there an announcement mail i can forward to my loco? | 11:20 |
| cjohnston | popey: yes | 11:21 |
| popey | ah found one | 11:21 |
| cjohnston | let me guess.. you want me to get it? | 11:21 |
| popey | no, its ok | 11:21 |
| cjohnston | the one I sent out? | 11:21 |
| cjohnston | uh oh | 11:21 |
| cjohnston | lernid is causing errors | 11:21 |
| cjohnston | someone wake up jono! lol (jk, dont actually wake him up) | 11:22 |
| Pendulum | hah, so it is | 11:22 |
| qense | cjohnston: what errors? | 11:22 |
| Pendulum | I just got that popey isn't a registered protocol as an error | 11:22 |
| cjohnston | an alert that says cjohnston is not a registered protocol | 11:22 |
| nigel_nb | qense, I got cjohnston is not a registered protocol | 11:23 |
| AlanBell | popey really should be a registered protocol | 11:23 |
| cjohnston | sounds like eveyone has an error | 11:23 |
| qense | I donnot! I must be registered | 11:23 |
| popey | so lernid doesn't like it when someone mentions another nickname | 11:23 |
| nigel_nb | popey, probably | 11:23 |
| cjohnston | i guess? | 11:23 |
| popey | we can ask the tutors to make sure they dont do that | 11:23 |
| AlanBell | it is the colon on the name | 11:24 |
| qense | ah, I understand! It is the URL parser | 11:24 |
| nigel_nb | lemme try | 11:24 |
| cjohnston | thats gonna be really hard | 11:24 |
| cjohnston | is it AlanBell ? | 11:24 |
| nigel_nb | popey: test | 11:24 |
| qense | try to avoid all not http protocols! | 11:24 |
| cjohnston | AlanBell looks like it is | 11:24 |
| cjohnston | no colons today!!! | 11:24 |
| cjohnston | lol | 11:24 |
| qense | If you've got questions related to Lernid, ping me, I've hacked on it, but I am busy | 11:25 |
| AlanBell | someone file a bug :-) | 11:25 |
| AlanBell | was that colon OK? | 11:26 |
| nigel_nb | I just fixed a bug today | 11:26 |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days starts at 12:00 PM UTC! || Wiki Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | ||
| qense | Is anyone actually going to use Lernid's slide feature today? | 11:26 |
| nigel_nb | qense, no | 11:26 |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom Chat || Ubuntu User Days starts at 12:00 PM UTC! || Wiki Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays || Discussions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| nigel_nb | qense, we didn't want beginners to miss anything | 11:26 |
| cjohnston | No.. we requested they not | 11:26 |
| nigel_nb | and adding ppa is not exactly beginner friendly | 11:26 |
| qense | makes sense | 11:26 |
| AlanBell | which ppa should be used for lernid? jonobacon or lernid-dev | 11:27 |
| nigel_nb | jonobacon I think | 11:27 |
| cjohnston | I think jono's | 11:27 |
| cjohnston | hmm | 11:28 |
| cjohnston | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/JoiningIn | 11:28 |
| cjohnston | freaky... sorry to all of you who are on lernid who I just changed your website | 11:28 |
| nhaines | I just used the lernid-devs PPA and Ubuntu User Day comes up fine. | 11:28 |
| qense | yes | 11:28 |
| cjohnston | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | 11:28 |
| AlanBell | ok, I had it fail to install from lernid-devs | 11:28 |
| nigel_nb | qense, I find that when I open lernid and not enter a user name, I dont get that screen again | 11:28 |
| qense | you shouldn't be able to not enter a username, I think ;) | 11:29 |
| cjohnston | umm.. why wont it go back... | 11:29 |
| qense | btw, you want the ~lernid-devs PPA | 11:29 |
| RPG_Master | hey, is this going to be starting at 7 AM american central time? | 11:29 |
| qense | cjohnston, there is a drop-down thing for that | 11:29 |
| cjohnston | RPG_Master: I believe it is 6 for central time | 11:29 |
| cjohnston | its 7 EST | 11:29 |
| RPG_Master | Soooo, in an hour? | 11:30 |
| cjohnston | 30 minutes | 11:30 |
| RPG_Master | :| | 11:30 |
| qense | the use of lernid is good for keeping people like me out of this channel since you can't talk in the classroom with lernid | 11:30 |
| RPG_Master | GAH!... | 11:30 |
| nhaines | haha :) | 11:30 |
| kyubutsu | they are a clan | 11:31 |
| AlanBell | if you want to know the time you can /msg ubottu @now UTC | 11:31 |
| AlanBell | qense: good point | 11:31 |
| RPG_Master | Should I sleep our stay up? :( | 11:31 |
| nhaines | There will be logs later. | 11:31 |
| AlanBell | RPG_Master: stay up! | 11:31 |
| qense | ah, avoid unregistered protocls | 11:31 |
| qense | btw, what will happen when I do apt:lernid ? | 11:31 |
| qense | not registered either | 11:32 |
| RPG_Master | I've been playing RE5 with my dad so I was finally going to get in bed :P | 11:32 |
| === OGGSmith is now known as habra_Smith_rus | ||
| qense | btw, the introduction session at 12 UTC isn't on the Lernid schedule | 11:33 |
| cjohnston | nigel_nb ^^ | 11:34 |
| * RPG_Master is installing lernid | 11:36 | |
| AlanBell | please don't use lernid until -classroom is muted | 11:37 |
| RPG_Master | :O | 11:37 |
| RPG_Master | AlanBell: Why? | 11:37 |
| AlanBell | it will automatically open links, if someone pastes one of those spam links here everyone using lernid will be k-lined instantly | 11:38 |
| cjohnston | AlanBell I wonder if maybe that is something that needs to be changed in lernid, that only voices or something it automatically opens links? | 11:38 |
| RPG_Master | :O ok. thanks | 11:38 |
| * pleia2 sighs | 11:38 | |
| qense | 10 lernid users in this channel at the moment, including a ghost of me | 11:38 |
| === nigel_nb is now known as Guest97501 | ||
| RPG_Master | and counting :P | 11:38 |
| Quintasan|Szel | so that means we could get serious problems here L/ | 11:39 |
| Quintasan|Szel | are those spam links masked via some url shorten service? | 11:39 |
| AlanBell | Quintasan|Szel: I have not seen that yet | 11:40 |
| === nigel_nb is now known as Guest36386 | ||
| === openweek3 is now known as tnjulius | ||
| popey | AlanBell: do you want this channel muted? | 11:40 |
| popey | and take discussion to -chat.. | 11:40 |
| popey | (makes sense) | 11:40 |
| Quintasan|Szel | popey: sorry for that | 11:41 |
| RPG_Master | :O | 11:41 |
| popey | Quintasan|Szel: its not a problem | 11:41 |
| AlanBell | popey: I am concerned yes, however the first session is interactive here | 11:41 |
| RPG_Master | THE popey? :D | 11:41 |
| RPG_Master | ...sorry :P | 11:41 |
| popey | hah | 11:41 |
| qense | people, please don't use : sign without http or https in front of it, it scares Lernid users | 11:41 |
| pleia2 | we'll mute it after the interactive portion of the first session | 11:41 |
| RPG_Master | popey: I blame you :O | 11:41 |
| * dox_drum is using lernid. NICK. doxdrum | 11:41 | |
| KEPZ | wt time is it? | 11:42 |
| HoellP | KEPZ: very relative question... | 11:43 |
| _marx_ | KEPZ: "date; date -u" | 11:43 |
| qense | KEPZ, the command date -u will help you | 11:43 |
| nigelbabu | please DO NOT use : after nick completion, it causes error in lernid | 11:43 |
| qense | yes indeed! | 11:43 |
| cjohnston | that ones gonna be a hard one... | 11:44 |
| cjohnston | anyone know how to change the default in irssi? | 11:44 |
| RPG_Master | :O what does it do to lernid? | 11:44 |
| qense | error | 11:44 |
| qense | and the window takes focus when showing that error | 11:44 |
| dox_drum | RPG_Master, got a message. | 11:44 |
| qense | annoying | 11:44 |
| maxb | : is the default in many clients - Why should everyone change to accomodate bugs in a specific piece of software? | 11:45 |
| RPG_Master | Oh, well darn | 11:45 |
| maxb | Plus it's a standard part of common IRC dialogue as habituated in many *humans* minds | 11:45 |
| qense | maxb, because the wiki encourages people to use this software for the Ubuntu Users Day | 11:45 |
| maxb | That's a bit of a dramatic failure :-( | 11:46 |
| cjohnston | maxb I just wnat to change it for today, so I dont have to remember to remove the : to make it easier for me | 11:46 |
| nigelbabu | well guys, chill, its only for some time | 11:46 |
| nigelbabu | anyway, you can use : in classroom-chat | 11:46 |
| nigelbabu | its only here that you need to be careful | 11:46 |
| AlanBell | qense: the wiki for developer days encourages use of lernid, some people are *testing* it today. | 11:47 |
| AlanBell | qense: we are learning useful things about it already | 11:47 |
| Pendulum | nigelbabu, yes, but you're likely to be c&ping questions in | 11:47 |
| qense | yes | 11:47 |
| qense | like the fact that I'm not a protocol ;) | 11:47 |
| AlanBell | dammit! | 11:47 |
| cjohnston | yes you are Quintasan|Szel | 11:47 |
| nigelbabu | qense, hehe | 11:47 |
| Quintasan|Szel | cjohnston, what? | 11:48 |
| nigelbabu | Quintasan|Szel, tab fail ;) | 11:48 |
| cjohnston | sorry Quintasan|Szel i was meaning qense | 11:48 |
| Quintasan|Szel | oh, happens =P | 11:48 |
| qense | such a pity | 11:49 |
| qense | the bug is at <https://launchpad.net/bugs/503502>, if anyone's interested | 11:49 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 503502 in lernid "Whenever Presenter enters text matching '\w+:' lernid tries to open the URL in the browser" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 11:49 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 503502 in lernid "Whenever Presenter enters text matching '\w+:' lernid tries to open the URL in the browser" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 11:49 |
| ubot2 | Ubuntu bug 503502 in lernid "Whenever Presenter enters text matching '\w+:' lernid tries to open the URL in the browser" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503502 | 11:49 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 503502 in lernid "Whenever Presenter enters text matching '\w+:' lernid tries to open the URL in the browser" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503502 | 11:49 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 503502 in lernid "Whenever Presenter enters text matching '\w+:' lernid tries to open the URL in the browser" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503502 | 11:49 |
| qense | loop! | 11:49 |
| qense | one bot should go | 11:50 |
| cjohnston | nah | 11:50 |
| cjohnston | lol | 11:50 |
| Quintasan|Szel | :/ | 11:50 |
| === pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days starts at 12:00 PM UTC! || Wiki Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays || Discussions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| openweek4_ | uh? | 11:58 |
| openweek4_ | uh? | 11:58 |
| === openweek4_ is now known as rent0n | ||
| === openweek1 is now known as bejames | ||
| cjohnston | Hello everyone, and welcome to our first Ubuntu User Day! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | 12:00 |
| cjohnston | To get things started, who is here for this and where are you from? | 12:01 |
| openweek5 | anonrock from bangladesh | 12:01 |
| pleia2 | Elizabeth from Philadelphia, USA :) | 12:01 |
| Yos | Yos from Israel | 12:01 |
| fvaresi | fvaresi from Montevideo, Uruguay | 12:01 |
| hhlp | <- from spain | 12:01 |
| Pendulum | Penelope from New York, USA | 12:01 |
| Terrabit | Maxim from Russia | 12:01 |
| Ryan1 | I'm from Australia | 12:02 |
| * _marx_ from North Carolina, USA | 12:02 | |
| habra_Smith_rus | Russia, Yakutia. | 12:02 |
| Seadog47 | Russia, Moscow | 12:02 |
| dox_drum | Chile | 12:02 |
| gukk_devel | germany | 12:02 |
| nigelbabu | nigel from India | 12:02 |
| fobosnet | Russia, Spb | 12:02 |
| qense | Sense , the Netherlands | 12:02 |
| HoellP | Austria | 12:02 |
| ParsnipSoup | Kate, Boston, MA, USA | 12:02 |
| ulysses | Szolnok, Hungary | 12:02 |
| jepong | the Philippines!!!! | 12:02 |
| AlanBell | Alan from England | 12:02 |
| n0fun | Russia, Severodvinsk | 12:02 |
| * czajkowski is from ireland | 12:03 | |
| yofel | Philip, Germanyy | 12:03 |
| RPG_Master_ | Alabama | 12:03 |
| cjohnston | Anyone else? | 12:04 |
| Deem | <--- germany | 12:04 |
| cjohnston | Great! | 12:05 |
| === chester is now known as Chester | ||
| cjohnston | So, what is this day all about anyway? | 12:05 |
| cjohnston | User Days was created to be a set of classes offered during a one day period to teach the beginning or intermediate Ubuntu user the basics to get them started with Ubuntu, including: | 12:05 |
| cjohnston | (sorry to lernid users!) | 12:05 |
| cjohnston | Learn how to install Ubuntu | 12:06 |
| cjohnston | Learn how to find equivalent programs in Ubuntu | 12:06 |
| cjohnston | Learn how to get help with Ubuntu | 12:06 |
| cjohnston | Learn the basics of how to use Ubuntu | 12:06 |
| cjohnston | Learn how to get involved in the community | 12:07 |
| cjohnston | And more! For our full schedule head over to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | 12:07 |
| cjohnston | User Days was born out of a discussion at the Ubuntu Developers Summit in November 2009 regarding Ubuntu Open Week not being targeted enough at users. | 12:08 |
| cjohnston | Over the past two months, many people have taken the time to help put this day together for you. | 12:08 |
| cjohnston | We will be introducing each instructor at the beginning of their session, but I would like to take the time to introduce the leads behind this project, and your hosts for today. | 12:09 |
| cjohnston | First let me introduce you to pleia2. | 12:09 |
| pleia2 | My name is Elizabeth Krumbach, I'm currently living in Philadelphia, USA (soon to be moving to San Francisco!) and I got involved with this via the Ubuntu Community Learning Project: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning | 12:10 |
| pleia2 | I'm also a member of the Ubuntu Community Council, do a lot of work with LoCo teams and do upstream development in Debian | 12:11 |
| cjohnston | Next we have Pendulum. | 12:11 |
| Pendulum | Hiya, I'm Penelope Stowe. I live in New York City (for now), although people online seem to often think I'm in the UK. I got involved through the Ubuntu Developer Summit when this was first suggested as an event. | 12:13 |
| Pendulum | Other things I do with Ubuntu include working on the Ubuntu Women project, Ubuntu NGO, and doing transcripts for the Ubuntu Uk Podcast | 12:13 |
| cjohnston | Up next is _marx_ | 12:14 |
| _marx_ | My name is Mark Cox. I currently live in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. | 12:14 |
| _marx_ | I began using Linux in '98 about a year after my wife and I bought our first computer for Christmas '97. We couldn't share that computer so I took an old clunker given to me by a customer and installed RedHat 6.0 on it | 12:14 |
| _marx_ | I bagan using Ubuntu with the 5.04 release. | 12:15 |
| _marx_ | I'm also involved with the North Carolina LoCo Team | 12:15 |
| _marx_ | I hope to be unique by being the first Grandfather in recorded history to convert his grandsons to Ubuntu instead of the other way around. The two oldest were dazzled by "the cube" over the holidays. | 12:15 |
| cjohnston | nigelbabu, is next. | 12:16 |
| nigelbabu | Hi, I'm Nigel and I'm a computer science student from India who is a passionate FOSS and Ubuntu enthusiast and, like pleia2, I got involved via the Ubuntu Community Learning Project! | 12:16 |
| nigelbabu | I'm a course writer with the Ubuntu Community Learning Project and a bug triager with the Ubuntu Bug Squad. | 12:17 |
| cjohnston | And I guess that I am last... ;-) | 12:18 |
| cjohnston | My name is Chris Johnston. I'm from Orlando, Florida.. (Go Florida LoCo!) In real life I'm a Fire Fighter Paramedic. | 12:18 |
| cjohnston | Around here I'm a member of the Ubuntu Community Learning Project, Ubuntu Beginners Team, Ubuntu Bug Squad, and I do quite a bit of work helping out with the Ubuntu Website. | 12:19 |
| pleia2 | thanks cjohnston! | 12:19 |
| pleia2 | Now, we will give you a quick rundown of how today will work: | 12:19 |
| pleia2 | Each hour, a presenter will be giving a class in this channel, #ubuntu-classroom | 12:20 |
| pleia2 | During the classes, #ubuntu-classroom will be moderated (+m), meaning that only the instructor and hosts will be able to speak in that channel. | 12:20 |
| pleia2 | Please hold all discussion about the class in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 12:21 |
| pleia2 | If you have a question during the class, please ask in #ubuntu-classroom-chat with the prefix QUESTION for instance, you may say | 12:21 |
| pleia2 | QUESTION How do you uninstall a program? | 12:21 |
| Pendulum | After each session (as soon as our volunteers can), we'll be posting logs on the wiki, so be sure to check back to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays if you missed anything. | 12:22 |
| Pendulum | Logs will also be automatically generated at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | 12:22 |
| Pendulum | Since you're already here, you know how to participate, but in case you have a friend you'd like to invite, you can find some help on the Joining In wiki page, | 12:22 |
| Pendulum | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/JoiningIn | 12:22 |
| Pendulum | It gives you links to some client documentation, as well as the direct link to joining #ubuntu-classroom & #ubuntu-classroom-chat via a web browser. | 12:23 |
| _marx_ | You may have seen articles about the Lernid application which is designed for learning events such as this, you can certainly try out Lernid for User Days, | 12:23 |
| _marx_ | We should note here that lernid is still alpha software and as such users should be aware it may have problems. | 12:24 |
| _marx_ | we just won't be using the slideshow functionality this time. | 12:24 |
| _marx_ | More info on Lernid including how to install it on Ubuntu at | 12:24 |
| _marx_ | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid it would be great to have your feedback on Lernid at the end of the day. | 12:24 |
| _marx_ | We hope that this event can continue to grow and that we'll host more days like this. | 12:25 |
| _marx_ | Indeed, it's already inspired a Spanish version of the day which is also being held today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiaDelUsuarioUbuntu | 12:25 |
| nigelbabu | The User Days Team has worked with Local Community Teams (LoCos), the Ubuntu Beginners Team, Ubuntu Classroom and the Ubuntu Community Learning Project and others within the wider community to bring this day to you. | 12:26 |
| nigelbabu | For more information about any of these see their wiki pages | 12:26 |
| nigelbabu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams | 12:26 |
| nigelbabu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam | 12:27 |
| nigelbabu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom | 12:27 |
| nigelbabu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning | 12:27 |
| nigelbabu | To quiet various noise that happens in the IRC channels during the talk use this command (in supported clients only) | 12:27 |
| nigelbabu | type "/ignore #ubuntu-classroom CRAP NOTICES SNOTES CTCPS JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS MODES WALLOPS NICKS DCC DCCMSGS CLIENTNOTICES CLIENTCRAP CLIENTERRORS HILIGHTS" without the quotes | 12:27 |
| nigelbabu | If you are on webchat, Click on the small blue box on top left corner and click "Options." Add a tick to "Hide JOINS/PARTS/QUITS:" | 12:28 |
| nigelbabu | Unfortunately, Freenode, the IRC network we use, has been hit hard recently with an influx of javascript spam. For more information please see http://blog.freenode.net/2010/01/javascript-spam/. Do NOT click ANY other links that say you are infected or they give you more information about the spam. | 12:28 |
| nigelbabu | Finally, before we get to some general Q&A in this introduction session, a big thanks to everyone who made this day possible :) | 12:29 |
| nigelbabu | Anyone have any general questions about the day? | 12:29 |
| Pendulum | doxdrum> QUESTION - What does supported clients only means? | 12:30 |
| Pendulum | doxdrum> QUESTION - What does supported clients only means? | 12:30 |
| nigelbabu | well, not all clients support the /ignore function. try it and if ti doesn't work, let us know your client | 12:30 |
| pleia2 | < HoellP> QUESTION how can i un-ignore stuff again? | 12:32 |
| nigelbabu | For those of you, if the command didn't work and you're on X-chat | 12:33 |
| nigelbabu | On x-chat GNOME, there is a checkbox for hiding/showing join/part messages in the channel context menu of Xchat GNOME (thanks qense ) | 12:34 |
| pleia2 | regarding un-ignoring, most clients have an /unignore option | 12:35 |
| pleia2 | < Deem> Question is this "tutorial" tody for all ubuntu versions? | 12:35 |
| pleia2 | we're focusing on karmic Ubuntu | 12:36 |
| pleia2 | but some sessions may touch upon other varients and versions | 12:36 |
| pleia2 | < starcraftman> Question - Where's the cake and refreshments and anything else edible? I could have sworn that was mentioned, if not, I say we make a last minute addition! | 12:36 |
| pleia2 | uuuh, sure! | 12:36 |
| * pleia2 shares cake ;) | 12:36 | |
| * Pendulum hands out tea to go with the cake | 12:36 | |
| cjohnston | starcraftman it was your job to bring the refreshments | 12:36 |
| * _marx_ shares "Sweet Eyetalian" light roast coffee | 12:37 | |
| pleia2 | < gukk_devel> Question will special questions like hardwaredetection be answered, especially former xorg-stuff | 12:38 |
| pleia2 | there is a restricted drivers session which will seek to cover some of this | 12:38 |
| pleia2 | this will be jamalta's session at 16:00 UTC | 12:39 |
| Pendulum | Question: i never used an irc before. i think i got it, ignoring stuff in one window wont affect another or subsequent | 12:40 |
| Pendulum | windows? | 12:40 |
| Pendulum | For most IRC clients (at least that I know of) this is true | 12:40 |
| Pendulum | each window (channel as they're called on IRC) needs to have /ignore set separately | 12:41 |
| cjohnston | Are there any more questions related specifically to the Ubuntu User Day? | 12:42 |
| nigelbabu | Question, How often a day like this one is hold? | 12:43 |
| Pendulum | This is the first User Day that has been held. | 12:44 |
| pleia2 | so we're not sure yet :) I think we're going to shoot for every 6 months to start out | 12:44 |
| pleia2 | maybe every 3 if we can get enough volunteers | 12:44 |
| Pendulum | Please let us know if you want them more or less often in your feedback! | 12:44 |
| pleia2 | < gukk_devel> Question is there a german version of this UsersDays planned? | 12:45 |
| nigelbabu | There is nothing planned now | 12:45 |
| nigelbabu | but if you'd like to help out organize, we can assist you | 12:45 |
| _marx_ | The more languages the better. | 12:48 |
| cjohnston | Any other questions about today? If not, we will start the next class in about 7 minutes | 12:53 |
| nigelbabu | Okay, so that about it from our introduction session. Next up in a few minutes is "Switching to Ubuntu & Installation" by nagendra | 12:54 |
| nigelbabu | If you have anymore questions, we'll be taking it :) | 12:54 |
| pleia2 | < Yos> QUESTION will there be a chance at the end of the day for making suggestions for the next user day | 12:54 |
| pleia2 | there is a survey | 12:54 |
| cjohnston | < doxdrum> Question - I'm interested in participate in future UserDays, Who should I contact? | 12:55 |
| cjohnston | me | 12:55 |
| _marx_ | t -5 | 12:55 |
| cjohnston | later please though. ;-) | 12:55 |
| Pendulum | or come find us in #ubuntu-learning :) | 12:55 |
| Pendulum | (but, again, later please) | 12:55 |
| pleia2 | http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | 12:55 |
| pleia2 | is the survey for the day :) | 12:55 |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Switching to Ubuntu & Installation ~~ Presented by Nagendra || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| Pendulum | Our first instructor today is Guru Nagendra Prasad. Nagendra has been using Linux & GNU packages since 97. He is pursuing bachelors degree in computers. | 13:01 |
| Pendulum | His first introduction to Linux was RedHat. He received 2 CD's of RedHat Linux from my friend in 97 and tried to install it on his system. However he crashed his HDD at that time. | 13:01 |
| Pendulum | He has since learned how to install Linux on a system. In the year 2000 he started to teach Linux in an institute. | 13:02 |
| Pendulum | However at that point in time he didn't know about how to install audio/video drivers (Due to no Internet connection). So, he screwed up few systems. | 13:02 |
| Pendulum | In the year 2005 Nagendra joined Google and worked 3 years as a data analyst. After leaving Google in 2008 he have started working on his own project. | 13:02 |
| Pendulum | In the year 2008 he also developed a distro called Gubuntu, based on Linux Mint. It was a multimedia based OS, with all audio and video tools in it and bunch of few other stuff. | 13:02 |
| Pendulum | Before nagendra begings, I just want to remind people Unfortunately freenode, the IRC network we use, has been hit hard recently with an influx of javascript spam. For more information please see http://blog.freenode.net/2010/01/javascript-spam/. Do not click other links that say you are infected or they are more information about the spam. | 13:03 |
| Pendulum | Also, please fill out our survey about today! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | 13:04 |
| nagendra | hi please let me know when should I start ? | 13:05 |
| pleia2 | now :) | 13:05 |
| cjohnston | Now | 13:05 |
| nagendra | ok | 13:05 |
| nagendra | so my first topic is : Difference between windows and Linux (Ubuntu) | 13:06 |
| nagendra | their are few things to remember with you switch from windows to ubuntu that windows only supports FAT and NTFS file system however Ubuntu supports many file systems | 13:07 |
| nagendra | while installing windows you will have to specify only one drive usually C-Drive however while installing ubuntu you will have to specify 2 different drive one for the ROOT (/) and another for the SWAP area | 13:10 |
| nagendra | ubuntu uses a sperate drive for swaping files however the same thing in windows called the paging file | 13:11 |
| pleia2 | < doxdrum> Question - Is it better to have only / and swap than also the extra home partition? | 13:12 |
| nagendra | is depends on you if you want to use another drive partation called home | 13:13 |
| nagendra | apart from root (/) and swap every other partation will work just like your other dirves like d,e,f and so on | 13:14 |
| pleia2 | < zhukaster> Question: is it necessary to have swap at least 2x larger than RAM amount? | 13:14 |
| nagendra | giving my experience it dosen't matters if your physcial RAM is larger then 1 GB | 13:15 |
| nagendra | however it is recommended | 13:15 |
| pleia2 | < ehlim> Question is that posible to change filesystem witout reinstall ubuntu, said like from ext 3 to ext 4 | 13:16 |
| nagendra | as far as I know its not possible | 13:16 |
| nagendra | people always get scared when they see linux or ubuntu on a system but its just their state of mind :) | 13:18 |
| nagendra | any other question about- Difference between windows and Linux (Ubuntu)? | 13:19 |
| nagendra | so my next topic is -why Windows? | 13:21 |
| nagendra | this is a question we have to ask ourselves | 13:21 |
| nagendra | see if you are a basic user of computer like net surfing, chatting, listening to music and few office stuff why do you want to waste your money on windows when you can do the same tasks on any version of ubuntu | 13:23 |
| nagendra | so their might be the next question that may come to your mind is why Ubuntu ? | 13:24 |
| nagendra | Ubuntu is very easy to use, install, update, troubleshoot and you will get the community help as well for your issues how about that :) | 13:26 |
| nagendra | any questions guys ?? | 13:26 |
| pleia2 | < jazz__> Question what do they mean "free as in beer?" | 13:28 |
| nagendra | so my next topic is - Who need Ubuntu and who need Windows? | 13:29 |
| nagendra | I don't know about others but in india ppl teach some programing languages based on windows like VB, VC++ and so on so for those they might be needing windows but for others like in small bussiness holders, shop keepers who wants to maintain their daily sales and purchase accounts they can switch to ubuntu as its free :) | 13:32 |
| nagendra | their are so many different versions of Linux starting from Redhat, fedora, suse, ubuntu etc | 13:33 |
| nagendra | its on you which version or distor you want to use | 13:33 |
| nagendra | however giving my experience Ubuntu is the best one when it comes to linux :) | 13:34 |
| nagendra | also ubuntu supports a large numbers of hardware devices | 13:35 |
| nagendra | if you want to make sure if your computer hardware will work on ubuntu use a live media of Ubuntu and you will get an idea about it | 13:36 |
| pleia2 | < Jedemco> Question What is live media and why is it called live media? | 13:37 |
| nagendra | live media is nothing but a complete Ubuntu OS which will be run on your system without installing on your HDD | 13:38 |
| nagendra | its like this you have a viedo DVD with you and when you insert the DVD in your DVD drive you can watch the movie directly from DVD but only if you like you copy the DVD on your system | 13:39 |
| nagendra | so the same thing applies here the live media gives you a chance to see how the OS is working on your system and if everything is OK then you can install it on your HDD | 13:40 |
| nagendra | any questions guys ? | 13:41 |
| nagendra | here are the few links which you might want to read about ubuntu installation :http://news.softpedia.com/news/Installing-Ubuntu-9-10-126370.shtml | 13:43 |
| nagendra | http://ubuntuguide.net/a-step-by-step-guide-for-ubuntu-910karmic-complete-installation | 13:43 |
| pleia2 | < Jedemco> Question How long does it take to install Ubuntu? | 13:44 |
| nagendra | Max -30 Min | 13:44 |
| nagendra | again it depends on your system | 13:44 |
| pleia2 | < Jedemco> Question How much room does the operating system take up on the HDD? | 13:45 |
| nagendra | basically you will have to specify 5 GB of free space for root and 1 GB for swap | 13:46 |
| nagendra | if you have any question about how to install Ubuntu with dual boot please ask :) | 13:48 |
| pleia2 | < LuizAquino> Question What type of filesystem to choose on install? | 13:48 |
| nagendra | you can choose ext3 or ext4 | 13:49 |
| pleia2 | < Jedemco> Question Can dual boot be done so that Ubuntu not the first choice | 13:49 |
| nagendra | yes you can when you install ubuntu it will ask you to change the boot loader of you want | 13:50 |
| nagendra | their you can change the OS order :) | 13:51 |
| pleia2 | < lannocc> Question better to install Windows or Ubuntu first? | 13:51 |
| nagendra | better to install windows first then install Ubuntu | 13:51 |
| pleia2 | < userday20> Question, if i have winxp and an another linux distro. will i have to delete the partion of other linux distro, and then start installing ubunut or should i directly start installing ubuntu and i'll have the option to delete the other linux distro during installation | 13:52 |
| nagendra | any more question guys I just have 10 min left :) | 13:52 |
| nagendra | yes you will get an option to delete the existing linux partation | 13:52 |
| pleia2 | < lannocc> Question (followup) but doesn't Windows try to use up all available disk space? | 13:53 |
| nagendra | no if you have already installed windows then in the installation Ubuntu will give you the option to use the free space of windows | 13:54 |
| nagendra | in this case your windows will be safe as well | 13:54 |
| pleia2 | < LuizAquino> Question Is it save to change the size of a partition with Windows on installation? | 13:54 |
| pleia2 | 5 minute warning :) | 13:55 |
| nagendra | yes you can and your windows will be safe | 13:55 |
| nagendra | thank you all for taking part in Ubuntu user day. I wish a very good luck to you all and if you have any other questions please feel free to join the Ubuntu community | 13:57 |
| nagendra | I still have 3 min left I can take 1 more question | 13:58 |
| cjohnston | Thank you nagendra! | 13:59 |
| nagendra | you are welcome :) | 13:59 |
| _marx_ | thanks nagendra | 13:59 |
| === _marx_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom Chat || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Command Line Basics ~~ Presented by _marx_ || Please ask questions here; prefix your question with QUESTION || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| _marx_ | Welcome everyone to Command Line Basics | 14:00 |
| cjohnston | Up next we have _marx_ | 14:00 |
| cjohnston | Mark Cox lives in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. He has made his living as a carpenter since getting out of the Army in '85. | 14:00 |
| cjohnston | He has been using Linux since 1998. Mark has been using Ubuntu since 5.04. He hopes to be unique by being the first Grandfather in recorded history | 14:00 |
| cjohnston | to convert his grandsons to Ubuntu instead of the other way around. Mark's two oldest grandchildren were dazzled by "the cube" over the holidays. | 14:00 |
| _marx_ | thanks cjohnston | 14:01 |
| _marx_ | Today I just want to cover some basics. | 14:01 |
| cjohnston | < mick__> Question:: shell programming:: any good tutorials online to take you from newbie to MOTU? | 14:01 |
| cjohnston | Got an early question for you. ;-) | 14:01 |
| _marx_ | Hopefully when we're done you be able to survive the dreaded no X experience. | 14:02 |
| _marx_ | mick__, the linux documentation project bash | 14:02 |
| _marx_ | First a little lecture time. | 14:03 |
| _marx_ | Then we'll do some things | 14:03 |
| _marx_ | When we use the command line we are using a shell. | 14:03 |
| _marx_ | In this context a shell is the most basic way a user can interact with a computer's operating system kernel. | 14:03 |
| _marx_ | A shell is a piece of software. | 14:04 |
| _marx_ | Most GNU/Linux distributions use the Bourne Again SHell (bash) as the login shell. | 14:04 |
| _marx_ | The again part is because the first iteration was called the Bourne SHell (sh) which was released for unix in the late '70's | 14:05 |
| _marx_ | Beginning with the 6.10 release Ubuntu began using dash (the Debian Almquist Shell) as the default system shell. | 14:05 |
| Pendulum | Jedemco> Question: Is a "shell" also the "Terminal" in Ubuntu? | 14:05 |
| _marx_ | The default login shell is still bash. | 14:05 |
| _marx_ | Jedemco, yes for all practical purposes | 14:06 |
| _marx_ | when one opens say gnome-terminal you'll be using bash | 14:06 |
| _marx_ | Today we will learn how to navigate the Linux file system, | 14:07 |
| _marx_ | view the contents of a file, | 14:07 |
| _marx_ | opy and rename files and directories, | 14:08 |
| _marx_ | userdays3, yes | 14:08 |
| _marx_ | pipe output of one command to another, direct output to a file, | 14:10 |
| _marx_ | install programs, navigate the internet all via the command line interface. | 14:10 |
| _marx_ | Maybe we'll get to all of that! | 14:10 |
| _marx_ | For our exercises today I will be using the Gnome terminal. | 14:10 |
| _marx_ | I want to make opening a terminal a click or two faster so click Applications > Accessories and drag Terminal into your top panel. | 14:10 |
| _marx_ | This is just to make starting a terminal a little faster by not using the menu system | 14:11 |
| === nigel_nb is now known as Guest70547 | ||
| _marx_ | I'm not real familiar with KDE and Xfce so maybe just drop the icon on the desktop to create a launcher. | 14:11 |
| Pendulum | < userdays3> QUESTION:Is there a difference between a system shell and a login shell? | 14:12 |
| _marx_ | lannocc, makes starting a terminal little quicker | 14:12 |
| _marx_ | There can be a difference between the system shell and login shell; on Ubuntu they are different. | 14:13 |
| _marx_ | ow let's open a terminal session, just click the icon we just created in the top panel. | 14:13 |
| _marx_ | Everyone have a terminal open? | 14:14 |
| _marx_ | I'm going to try to remember to wrap all my command examples with quotes around them so just type whatever is inside the quote marks. | 14:14 |
| _marx_ | I may forget so pay attention :-) | 14:15 |
| _marx_ | Okay first command "whoami" | 14:15 |
| _marx_ | Well now you know who you are! | 14:15 |
| _marx_ | Concept Where am I! | 14:17 |
| _marx_ | This is an important unix concept. | 14:17 |
| _marx_ | Where am I in the file system? | 14:17 |
| _marx_ | Let's use print working directory to find out. "pwd" | 14:17 |
| _marx_ | everyone should be in their home directory. | 14:18 |
| _marx_ | Okay, what's here? Use the list command to list the contents "ls" | 14:19 |
| _marx_ | no pm's please | 14:20 |
| _marx_ | ask in -chat | 14:20 |
| _marx_ | Commands can take options. | 14:21 |
| _marx_ | Try `ls -l` | 14:21 |
| _marx_ | now we get a long listing of all the files and directories | 14:22 |
| _marx_ | But this isn't all the files use `ls -a` to see all the files | 14:22 |
| === Walt is now known as Guest71766 | ||
| _marx_ | Okay let's go somewhere else; `cd /` | 14:23 |
| _marx_ | and let's do a long listing of all the files | 14:23 |
| _marx_ | answer in -chat | 14:23 |
| _marx_ | any one long listing of all files | 14:24 |
| _marx_ | well it's `ls -al` | 14:24 |
| _marx_ | and where are we now? | 14:25 |
| cjohnston | < doxdrum> Question - is it important the order of the options? -al or -la | 14:25 |
| _marx_ | doxdrum no | 14:25 |
| _marx_ | everyone should be in "/" now. | 14:26 |
| _marx_ | pwd to find out where you are | 14:26 |
| _marx_ | well not seeing responces to where one is in -chat | 14:27 |
| _marx_ | okay let's all go home with `cd` | 14:28 |
| _marx_ | the command `cd ~` will also work | 14:28 |
| _marx_ | now `cd -` | 14:28 |
| _marx_ | and where are we? | 14:28 |
| _marx_ | that was a dash or minus sign | 14:29 |
| _marx_ | yep; "cd -" will take you back to the last directory you were in | 14:29 |
| _marx_ | ok go home | 14:30 |
| _marx_ | and list all files | 14:30 |
| _marx_ | we're gonna shorten up on some of this typing | 14:30 |
| _marx_ | `less .bashrc` will let you view your bashrc file | 14:31 |
| _marx_ | use "q" to quite less | 14:31 |
| _marx_ | we can shorten up on alot of typing by using aliases | 14:31 |
| _marx_ | type `alias` to see what aliases are set now | 14:32 |
| _marx_ | everyone have a output of current aliases? | 14:32 |
| _marx_ | oka to set an alias try "alias 'l=ls -l'" | 14:34 |
| _marx_ | now just type "l" | 14:35 |
| _marx_ | good question hhlp | 14:36 |
| _marx_ | it is not permenamt | 14:36 |
| _marx_ | ow bad spelling | 14:36 |
| _marx_ | to make an alias permenant | 14:37 |
| _marx_ | we need to edit ~/.bashrc; that file we just viewed with less | 14:37 |
| _marx_ | assuming everyone is in there home directories do "nano .bashrc" | 14:38 |
| Pendulum | < Crewsr3> so when you set up an alias without editing the .bashrc file how long will the alias work? | 14:39 |
| _marx_ | go to the end of the file and add the line "alias 'l=ls -l'" | 14:39 |
| _marx_ | Crewsr3, until you logout of the shell/bash session. | 14:40 |
| _marx_ | 20 minutes to go: how are we on nano w/.bashrc? | 14:40 |
| _marx_ | everyone have that line in .bashrc | 14:41 |
| _marx_ | save and exit the file | 14:41 |
| _marx_ | now bash doesn't know we've changed it's config file | 14:41 |
| Pendulum | < Yos> how to save and exit ? | 14:42 |
| _marx_ | in nano ctl-x to save and exit | 14:42 |
| _marx_ | so to make bash aware that we've changed it's config file we need to source the config file | 14:43 |
| _marx_ | do that with "source .bashrc" | 14:43 |
| _marx_ | so now you could open a second terminal and "l" should give you the same as "ls -l" | 14:45 |
| _marx_ | well i'm not going to get to everything i wanted to so questions? | 14:45 |
| _marx_ | Question: command to check available disk space | 14:46 |
| _marx_ | i like `df -h` and i usually alias df to that | 14:47 |
| _marx_ | ah info on commands can be found several ways | 14:47 |
| _marx_ | man <command> info <command> | 14:47 |
| Pendulum | < Jedemco> Question: I don't understand the concept of "alias." What is it and what does it do for me? | 14:48 |
| _marx_ | alias example: `alias 'df=df -h'` | 14:48 |
| _marx_ | an alias is like a shortcut; instead of typing all the options for a command we can type one or two letters to do the command | 14:49 |
| _marx_ | for the brave "sudo apt-get install mc" | 14:50 |
| _marx_ | this will install the midnight commander file manager | 14:50 |
| _marx_ | it can also do ftp and sftp | 14:50 |
| cjohnston | < Yos> Question what is the difference between bash and screen byobu ? | 14:51 |
| _marx_ | screen is like a console or command line window manager | 14:51 |
| _marx_ | screen starts within a bash session | 14:52 |
| _marx_ | anyone install mc? | 14:53 |
| _marx_ | start mc with `mc` | 14:53 |
| cjohnston | < Jedemco> Question: how do I get to "screen"? | 14:53 |
| _marx_ | Jedemco, just type `screen` | 14:54 |
| cjohnston | _marx_: is screen installed by default? | 14:54 |
| _marx_ | start mc with `mc` | 14:54 |
| _marx_ | cjohnston, not sure | 14:54 |
| cjohnston | I believe they would need to install first? | 14:54 |
| _marx_ | we could do 30 minutes on mc probably | 14:55 |
| cjohnston | 5 minutes left in this session | 14:55 |
| _marx_ | some other command line goodies are lynx for a web browser | 14:56 |
| _marx_ | and alpine for an email client | 14:56 |
| _marx_ | three minutes left thanks everone of coming by today | 14:57 |
| _marx_ | hopefully some of this was helpful | 14:58 |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Finding Helpful Resources ~~ Presented by starcraft.man || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| starcraftman | almost time to start, test. | 14:59 |
| nigelbabu | Thanks _marx_ for that wonderful session. Next up is starcraftman | 15:00 |
| _marx_ | go get 'em starcraftman | 15:00 |
| * starcraftman waves to classroom. | 15:00 | |
| nigelbabu | starcraft.man is a Computer Science student studying at the University of Concordia in Montreal | 15:00 |
| nigelbabu | He'll be explaining how to get effective help by understanding the problem and using useful resources | 15:00 |
| nigelbabu | starcraft.man is involved in the Beginners Team and the Documentation Contributors | 15:01 |
| nigelbabu | Most importantly, | 15:01 |
| nigelbabu | he's friendly and doesn't mind answering questions (we think he's a bot ;)). For more information see his wiki page at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/starcraft.man | 15:01 |
| nigelbabu | apologies to the lernid folks, I missed that one | 15:01 |
| starcraftman | hehe | 15:01 |
| starcraftman | thanks nigelbabu | 15:02 |
| starcraftman | Alright, so everyone please pay attention got a lot of ground to cover and only the hour. It'll be going by a bit fast as I just copy/paste this over, I've prewritten most everything. | 15:02 |
| starcraftman | Section 0 - Introduction | 15:02 |
| starcraftman | I’ll be covering an important topic today. What to do when things go wrong. It happens to everyone and dealing with it correctly can save a lot of trouble. | 15:03 |
| cjohnston | FYI: starcraftman prefers questions be held until they are asked for.. | 15:03 |
| starcraftman | An overview of the material to be covered today is available on the wiki -https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/FindingHelp | 15:03 |
| starcraftman | Take a moment and look over it while I continue with the introduction. At the end you’ll notice a links section. I’ll be mentioning these as I go, they are listed for convenience. | 15:04 |
| starcraftman | Please keep questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat as with other sessions. I’d prefer if they were reserved for the end. You’re free to ask them during and hopefully someone else can respond. I don’t want to be stopping at every question I’ve a lot of stuff to mention, I'm also pretty sure I've covered most things people will question by end. | 15:04 |
| starcraftman | I'll try to pace these out not too fast. | 15:04 |
| starcraftman | If your question remains unanswered by end, I'll take it then. Please make sure you keep them prefaced with Question so people can see them. | 15:05 |
| starcraftman | Also, please don't PM me during this session, if 30 people each PM me with questions I can't go through them all and do the session. | 15:05 |
| starcraftman | If you want to know more about me, see my page as linked in intro or on outline. This is interactive session so please follow along and do what I say, above all feel free to experiment and poke around. | 15:06 |
| starcraftman | So on with my presentation. | 15:06 |
| starcraftman | Things go wrong. It sucks. | 15:06 |
| starcraftman | The same way gravity unfortunately is still there when you wake up in the morning. | 15:06 |
| starcraftman | One minute you are typing away merrily on your word processor then..... | 15:07 |
| starcraftman | [Insert program crash here with some profanity about lost work] | 15:07 |
| starcraftman | Maybe you just finished installing some updates and wham! | 15:07 |
| starcraftman | Some unknown error appears on screen and you don’t know what to do. | 15:07 |
| starcraftman | The first rule of getting help is DON’T PANIC. Incidentally, this is also written in big bold letters on the back of a certain book for Hitch Hiker’s trekking the galaxy. | 15:08 |
| starcraftman | I’d say it’s a very good first rule. | 15:08 |
| starcraftman | The focus of this session will dealing with such problems –like the aforementioned – in a simple and effective manner. By the end, you should be able to gather simple information and on any problem and find help from the most appropriate resource. | 15:08 |
| starcraftman | Section I – Preparing for Help | 15:08 |
| starcraftman | The title sounds a bit silly doesn’t it? | 15:08 |
| starcraftman | You’d be surprised how just a few steps make all the difference finding good help. | 15:09 |
| starcraftman | Mostly it will help you narrow the focus of your search. If you reach out to someone else on forums or in person, it’s easier to bring them up to speed. | 15:09 |
| starcraftman | The average user skips this step. Usually this is followed by an attempt to use bad or limited information to fix the problem. The result is getting flustered. At this point they usually reach out to someone else, say on a forum or by email to a friend. This results in more annoyance as they answer many questions they didn’t consider at first to give the expert necessary information. | 15:09 |
| starcraftman | In the end, users can get very angry. I’ve seen it happen. | 15:10 |
| starcraftman | Posting on a forum in a bad mood “My video is broken, FIX IT!” is not a good way to get help. | 15:10 |
| starcraftman | Consider ( as some may know) that the forums are staffed, moderated and questions answered by volunteers not being paid. None of above like seeing rants posted. | 15:10 |
| starcraftman | If you speak like that to your tech friend, well, I don’t think he’ll be your friend after giving you the fix. | 15:10 |
| starcraftman | More to the point, a lot of your time got wasted. You got upset. You also didn’t resolve the problem given the time invested. | 15:11 |
| starcraftman | This leads to rule 2 “Try to spend time solving a problem yourself before you ask other people for help. If you follow this common courtesy, then it will not be an imposition when you ask for help.” That's from community wiki. | 15:11 |
| starcraftman | Section 1a – Analysis | 15:11 |
| starcraftman | When something goes wrong, the first thing that’s important to do is think what just happened? What was I doing? What crashed? What did I see? | 15:11 |
| starcraftman | Get a piece of paper and a pen and immediately write the answers to those questions down. Write in plain language all the details, you may not think it’s important but the person who helps you might disagree. | 15:12 |
| starcraftman | Say for example evolution just crashed, and there’s a window that popped up stating so with an error and asking you to file a report. Take down the error, note what you were doing. | 15:12 |
| starcraftman | If the error is a graphical one (like the error window popping up) you might want to take a screenshot off this. | 15:12 |
| starcraftman | Screenshots are just a way of taking an image of the screen, works on Linux just like Windows. Push print screen on the keyboard. Doing so will open up a screenshot application (on any Ubuntu variant), from there save the image to your Desktop. | 15:12 |
| starcraftman | (you can try to printscreen now if you like). | 15:13 |
| starcraftman | We’ll see what to do with this image later. | 15:13 |
| starcraftman | Another helpful thing to do in advance of getting help is knowing your hardware (this can especially help with networking/graphics problems). An easy way to get a complete listing of your hardware is to use the following simple command in any terminal (Applications > Accessories >Terminal) and using the command-- | 15:13 |
| starcraftman | "sudo lshw > ~/Desktop/hardware.txt" | 15:14 |
| starcraftman | No quotes. | 15:14 |
| starcraftman | This command creates a file called hardware.txt that you can open and browse on your desktop. It lists all components of your PC, CPU, RAM, Graphics card, Network interfaces, etc... There are a few commands that produce more precise output (like just listing PCI cards) but this covers everything with one shot. | 15:14 |
| starcraftman | Very useful, I've done this often. | 15:14 |
| starcraftman | After jotting down this information and taking a screenshot we can proceed to play detective. Ask yourself what went wrong? | 15:14 |
| starcraftman | Did the internet stop working for instance? That would be a networking issue. | 15:15 |
| starcraftman | IT detective work involves narrowing things down through categories, you start at the top and work your way down specifying at each new level until the problem is clear. | 15:15 |
| starcraftman | You might not have enough experience to solve it completely, but getting a start with what you know can go a long way. | 15:15 |
| starcraftman | It’s hard to say how much effort you should put in before moving on. Usually it becomes clear when you can no longer write or deduce anything else. | 15:15 |
| starcraftman | Section 2 – Power Searching Google | 15:15 |
| starcraftman | So the first stop is a search engine. I’ll use Google for this example, any engine should work. | 15:15 |
| starcraftman | The reason to search is another rule- If you’re having a problem, 99.9% of the time someone else has had the same one and posted its solution. | 15:15 |
| starcraftman | At this point, if everyone can open a browser and go to www.google.com that'd be great. | 15:16 |
| starcraftman | Or your local version. | 15:16 |
| starcraftman | Power searching is when you do more than simply type key words into Google. By default, each word is searched successively. For example, do a search in Google for “DC Batman Robin Crusader”, first with no quotations around the terms then with quotes. Then just DC Batman. Compare and see the difference. | 15:16 |
| starcraftman | The first time (first search with no quotes) Google searches for DC and finds all pages with references to it, then cross-references with all pages with Batman. The overlap becomes the new base and then further narrowed by overlap with Robin and Crusader. The search operation descends one word at a time, so the first word is most important and more general usually. | 15:17 |
| starcraftman | When searching in Google “DC Batman Robin Crusader” you get 0 results, very different from before. In this instance, Google searched for the string (a computer science term referring to the quoted line) as a whole, the exact sequence of words in the order inside the quotes is simply never used (it is incoherent as a sentence after all). | 15:17 |
| starcraftman | (I'll give ya moment to catch up, a bit of text to digest) | 15:18 |
| starcraftman | Now time to get to the meat of this. Everyone go to Google homepage and click “Advanced” on the right. | 15:18 |
| starcraftman | Here’s the advanced search page, a lot of people don’t know about it. It is very handy. | 15:18 |
| starcraftman | Immediately I’d like you to note the box at the top highlighted in blue stating “Use the form...”, here you will see the actual search string used when you enable all these advanced tricks. Look up every time you try something else. | 15:18 |
| starcraftman | This means that this is the actual search you could use alternatively in the standard Google Search box, you'll see what I mean as I go. | 15:19 |
| starcraftman | First two lines cover what I’ve already explained. | 15:19 |
| starcraftman | The third is the Boolean OR search. This means that rather than only take the overlap (or intersection) between DC and Batman, a search for DC OR Batman would include all results from the individual searches for DC and Batman. Rather than narrow down this really widens a search with every new result. | 15:19 |
| starcraftman | “Don’t show these pages” does exactly what it says, put keywords here and all pages with them will be subtracted from the search. | 15:20 |
| starcraftman | “Search within site or domain” is another useful one. Your entire search is then confined to the site listed. You can also limit by domain, so .edu limits it to educational websites indexed by Google on the internet. | 15:20 |
| starcraftman | Take a moment and play around with these modifiers to search, take note of the top line that shows how the modifiers are used. | 15:20 |
| starcraftman | “Filetype” does as it says and limits your search to an extension, say .pdf or .txt. Any extension is valid. | 15:21 |
| starcraftman | Click on “Date, usage rights, numeric range, and more...” here you’ll find even more though less commonly used modifiers. | 15:21 |
| starcraftman | more advanced* | 15:21 |
| starcraftman | These are mostly self-explanitory, you can check pages by date, search with numeric ranges (like price), etc... | 15:22 |
| starcraftman | One thing not here is wildcard modifier for search. | 15:23 |
| starcraftman | * is the wildcard. Say I knew part of a word, say.... nvidia but I only knew it started with nvid. Searching nvid* produces nvidia as top result. It isn’t always most useful given there might be words that complete the wildcard that you maybe don’t want included. | 15:23 |
| starcraftman | I don’t have time to go into all of them. I will warn, don’t be tempted to use too many. The more you employ the less results will appear. Often just one or two of these modifiers makes the difference. | 15:23 |
| starcraftman | Say you have a video problem, you want to check whether other people have had trouble with it. It’s an nvidia 8800GT. You know Ubuntu Forums usually has people posting about such things. You fill “ubuntuforums.org” in Site Search box, “nvidia 8800 GT” in all these words then search. Voila. | 15:23 |
| starcraftman | I don’t have time to cover all the nuance of power searching. I will leave you with a good site for those interested. http://www.googleguide.com/ . See the section start now that best applies to you. | 15:23 |
| starcraftman | Another page to note is Ubuntu Search at http://search.ubuntu.com/ | 15:24 |
| starcraftman | As it says on its homepage, by default it only searches Ubuntu related sites like the Wikis and Forums. | 15:24 |
| starcraftman | Though it doesn’t have an advanced option per se, I’m pretty sure it supports most of the above function. You just have to do it manually via text modifiers. | 15:24 |
| starcraftman | Section 3 – System Documentation and Wiki | 15:24 |
| starcraftman | For this section we will cover Ubuntu’s official documentation. | 15:24 |
| starcraftman | System Docs are the documentation that comes with any standard Ubuntu installation, these are accessible locally even without a net connection. | 15:24 |
| starcraftman | On the main panel, notice the blue question mark. Please click it. If you don’t have it, see System > Help and Support. | 15:24 |
| starcraftman | Note: If your not on Ubuntu at this moment, you won't of course. | 15:25 |
| starcraftman | Here you will find the documentation promised. It’s a gem overlooked often by people in need of help. Feel free to click around. | 15:25 |
| starcraftman | On the main page at the right you’ll see some common questions. At the left is most of the main sections covered like “New to Ubuntu?”, go ahead and click it, new options appear, pick what you like. You can always go back to beginning with the Home button (the house) on the Toolbar at the top. | 15:25 |
| starcraftman | The documentation contains a lot of answers to common questions and introductory material you can read to understand Ubuntu. | 15:25 |
| starcraftman | Do a test search and scroll to the bottom. You’ll see repeat this search online, click it. Presto, you’re back at search.ubuntu.com, nifty. I only just found that one. | 15:26 |
| starcraftman | Feel free to take a while and explore a bit. | 15:26 |
| * starcraftman takes lil drink. | 15:27 | |
| starcraftman | Go back to homepage pls (push home button as mentioned on the toolbar). | 15:27 |
| starcraftman | I’d like to note at the home page you can find the Free Support link, directing you to a lot of materials I’ll talk about. | 15:27 |
| starcraftman | Next is the Wikis, we have two. | 15:27 |
| starcraftman | The help wiki you’ll be most interested in is at- https://help.ubuntu.com/ . The other site is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ . This second site I tell you to prevent confusion, it is primarily for organization of teams. Help.ubuntu.com as the name implies stores all the help documents. Use the first one, not the second. | 15:28 |
| starcraftman | People often don't understand, these are official sites. They aren't like a wikia, a spin off by fans. | 15:28 |
| starcraftman | So take a moment and load up https://help.ubuntu.com/ | 15:28 |
| starcraftman | Here you’ll see listed the versions of Ubuntu still in support (i.e. 9.10, 9.04, these are links to their documentation). Clicking any of the versions will take you to an online version of the system pages, useful if you need it on the internet for reference. | 15:28 |
| starcraftman | (if your not on Ubuntu at this moment, you can now browse system docs) | 15:29 |
| starcraftman | Some people prefer the system docs in their browser, it’s got a different feel. The content is to my knowledge exactly the same though. | 15:29 |
| starcraftman | At the bottom you’ll see a link on upgrade notes, useful for upgrades. | 15:29 |
| starcraftman | More interesting is the community link, please click it | 15:29 |
| starcraftman | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ < to be clear. | 15:30 |
| starcraftman | This is the main wiki area it is maintained entirely by the community (folks like me) in an effort to document the software of Ubuntu and problems that arise. Browse all the information on the main page. | 15:30 |
| starcraftman | The bulk of documentation is in English, it is however translated into other languages and available. | 15:30 |
| starcraftman | See the “Getting Started with Ubuntu” section. Here is some beginner stuff you can read, there are also three subsequent sections underneath with useful links to stuff beginners need like Installation help and learning more information about their system. | 15:30 |
| starcraftman | This is all good reading material even if you don't have an immediate problem. | 15:31 |
| starcraftman | Next, have a look at the “Finding Your Way with Ubuntu” section. | 15:31 |
| starcraftman | Say hello to Signpost, a recent innovation. | 15:31 |
| starcraftman | Its aim is simple, to start with the general and try and narrow down to the right information. | 15:31 |
| starcraftman | Click “get some Help”, and click around some. It’s fairly easy. Different sections have different focus, some on help, filing bugs, some for programmers. See what you need. | 15:31 |
| starcraftman | Now lastly, search (top right). Say for example I’m having a video problem with my nvidia card. It won’t display my maximum resolution. Do a quick search here for “video nvidia” and see what pops up. Or maybe I just want to learn a good way to backup my system... search for “backup system”. Shameless plug, top result is one of my pages. Good reading. | 15:32 |
| starcraftman | Search will present you with relevant pages, as long as you know what you’re looking for. If you do the preparation at the beginning this shouldn’t be a problem. | 15:32 |
| starcraftman | The community wiki is my preferred resource for a wide variety of problems. It’s up to date and usually covers problems/software in a timely fashion. | 15:33 |
| starcraftman | Section 4 – Forums | 15:33 |
| starcraftman | Next, www.ubuntuforums.org | 15:33 |
| starcraftman | An excellent site, when in doubt posting here is reasonably certain to get you a good answer. There’s an art to posting though, as well as a wrong way to do it. | 15:33 |
| starcraftman | While I’m explaining, feel free to sign up, click Register at left. | 15:33 |
| starcraftman | First let’s look at the structure. The most relevant section is Absolute Beginners Talk. It’s come to be a catch all for new people and just problems in general, it gets the most eyeballs. If you post here with reasonable amount of information problem is usually resolved in one or two posts. | 15:33 |
| starcraftman | The next section is the Main Support Categories, it offers more specialized help for those with... more exotic problems. Advanced server configurations or some more obscure problems. It’s less used by beginners and is less frequented by support people. I’d encourage you to stick with ABT unless you’ve posted there and not gotten a reply in a reasonable time. | 15:34 |
| starcraftman | The remainder of the site is aimed less at support than discussion/development. You can peruse it at your own leisure. | 15:34 |
| starcraftman | Time to discuss posting etiquette on the forums, what to do/not do. | 15:34 |
| starcraftman | We have a full list of things you have to agree to at register I believe, this is just a rundown of pet peeves and things that really shouldn't happen. | 15:35 |
| starcraftman | Don’t TYPE IN CAPS OR with LOTS of exclamations!!!!! – CAPS usually infer yelling and exclamations excessively used are annoying. | 15:35 |
| starcraftman | Don’t curse or insult other members offering help. – If you wouldn’t say it to someone standing next to you, it generally shouldn’t be posted. | 15:35 |
| starcraftman | Don’t demand help in the title/topic like “Fix this or I’m leaving Ubuntu”. We aren’t prone to offering better help when threatened. This is an unfortunate practice by people who get frustrated, it also gets attention quickly. It is incredibly rude and doesn’t make things easier. | 15:35 |
| starcraftman | Don’t post in the ABT, wait a minute then repost the same thread in different sections. This is annoying. Post in one section (I recommend ABT) and wait for response. It may take 10 minutes or 20, or more, no more than a few hours usually. If so, you can bump your forum post. | 15:36 |
| starcraftman | A bump of course is just you replying to the post and pushing it back to the top of cue of threads so it is noticed.of | 15:36 |
| starcraftman | Now a few pointers to actual posting, you can click New Reply somewhere (doesn't matter where) to follow along (just don’t submit please). | 15:37 |
| starcraftman | Do NOT push submit on the post, this is just so you see the advanced features to posting. | 15:37 |
| starcraftman | Incidently, in case it wasn't clear, you need to be signed in to post. | 15:38 |
| starcraftman | Do make your post title pertinent to your problem. If you don’t have any internet on the machine then “I don’t have internet” is better than “problem needs fixing”. You don’t need to convey too much information, just the general category of problem. Including the version of Ubuntu might also be good. | 15:38 |
| starcraftman | To the left of title you’ll find prefix, please select your version of Ubuntu. When it’s solved, edit your first post and change the prefix to Solved. | 15:38 |
| starcraftman | The solved tag is useful, it tells people searching the archives your problem was resolved. So they can rely on the proposed fix. | 15:39 |
| starcraftman | This is nice, also goes back to one of my rules. | 15:39 |
| starcraftman | I’d like to make a note here- to the right of the title is “Check if Already Posted”. Please click this after writing in a title it will quickly search all previous posts for related information. Experiment with different titles. Often your question has already been answered. Don’t be afraid to detour and read some of these pages, you can always return to new post and submit it. | 15:39 |
| starcraftman | Just another way of preventing double posts, we get a lot of similar questions. | 15:40 |
| starcraftman | In your first post, try to put as much information as you can. Now is the time to consult that page we wrote earlier. Explain what you were doing, what went wrong, and what you have since learned (maybe from wiki). Nothing’s too small, at the same time, don’t write pages. | 15:40 |
| starcraftman | Take a note of the GUI at top of the forum reply, there is # button. | 15:41 |
| starcraftman | This is for the code tag. | 15:41 |
| starcraftman | people will often use it responding, if you want to post the hardware.txt file output use these tags. It stops the page overflowing. | 15:42 |
| starcraftman | Screenshots can be hosted at sites like http://www.imgur.com or as attachments to the post (scroll down on new post page, click Manage Attachments). These are very useful. | 15:42 |
| starcraftman | Images hosted on imgur you just copy the forum link and paste in the body of reply. The attachements way automates this. | 15:43 |
| starcraftman | When you’re happy with your post, submit it. Someone should get back to you with instructions in a timely and friendly fashion. | 15:43 |
| starcraftman | Some people ask how do I know the instructions will help? Or to trust the person giving? Well, there isn’t a rule per se. | 15:43 |
| starcraftman | I for instance have an almost 3000 post count, does that imply a user should trust me? I guess. Though when I started posting I only had a post count of 1, my knowledge has improved since but my advice was still usually helpful based on what I knew. | 15:43 |
| starcraftman | The rule I’d say is, does it sound right and well explained? A person who knows their stuff should be able to convey relevant information and convince you it’s the right thing to do. | 15:43 |
| starcraftman | A few closing comments on the forums. | 15:43 |
| starcraftman | It’s a helpful resource, it harnesses the collective experience of thousands of geeks like me. Do remember we all volunteer for no pay. | 15:43 |
| starcraftman | Also, a few helpful links you might enjoy are- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1052065 | 15:44 |
| starcraftman | A free beginners guide PDF to getting started. | 15:44 |
| starcraftman | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=801404 | 15:44 |
| starcraftman | A general launch point to many good forum guides written by people who know their stuff. | 15:44 |
| starcraftman | I wrote the installation one for instance. | 15:44 |
| starcraftman | Peruse them on your own. These links are good for general learning. Like the wiki. | 15:45 |
| starcraftman | Section 4.5 – IRC (Real quick) | 15:45 |
| starcraftman | Nhandler is covering this later. I only want to point out that IRC can be used for support. Channels such as #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #ubuntu-beginners are all good stops. A good run down of channels and getting help is available here- https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat | 15:45 |
| starcraftman | (don't click the #links, that will open IRC client to somewhere else). | 15:45 |
| starcraftman | The page lists the channels, what they focus and how to fix her up. Nhander will give more details. | 15:45 |
| starcraftman | Section 5 – Launchpad | 15:45 |
| starcraftman | I’m going to try and make this brief, I don’t want to cover nigel’s topic (see agenda for time), he’s devoting a whole hour to launchpad. | 15:46 |
| starcraftman | Launchpad is however the place to go when all of the above doesn’t get you an answer. You have two choices. | 15:46 |
| starcraftman | First is the answers section, see here- | 15:46 |
| starcraftman | https://answers.launchpad.net/ | 15:46 |
| starcraftman | Launchpad Answers is basically a section designed to let the people working on the projects answer your question. | 15:46 |
| starcraftman | Please note, you need to be signed up to use this site. If you want, you can sign up now in preparation for later with Nigel. A nice plus, any launchpad account is automatically an opened, can be used on other sites supporting such login. | 15:46 |
| starcraftman | Say I have a problem with music playing in rhythmbox, so esoteric that none of the above helped. | 15:47 |
| starcraftman | (by above, I mean the other resources) | 15:47 |
| starcraftman | Go to answers home, click choose one project and type in rhythmbox. This takes you right to the project answer section. See if your problem is listed. If not, you can file a question here in much the same way as you would a bug (bug filing is last resort). | 15:47 |
| starcraftman | Click ask a new question and fill it out. Someone should get back to you in a reasonable time. (don't file a question at this time...) | 15:47 |
| starcraftman | People are very active in the Ubuntu project answering the Answers section, you might consider posting there more generally before in a specific project like rhythmbox. | 15:47 |
| starcraftman | Next is a quick bug filing run down. Click bugs section at the top of rhythmbox. At the right, on top of ask a question is now Report a Bug. | 15:47 |
| starcraftman | Click this only if you want to file a bug, please don’t file them without being sure it’s a bug and having searched existing bugs. Devs get a lot of duplicates that don’t help. | 15:48 |
| starcraftman | There's a structure to filling reports, nigel will cover this. It's important to put more not less info, as specific as you can so devs can reproduce bugs, test and fix. | 15:48 |
| starcraftman | Launchpad is a good service, though I’m more of a doc person so I guess I’m biased to recommend system then wiki docs. | 15:49 |
| starcraftman | That's it on LP, please see nigel later for more. | 15:49 |
| starcraftman | Section 6 – Closing | 15:49 |
| starcraftman | When confronted by a problem, stop and think. Don’t panic. | 15:49 |
| starcraftman | Write down all pertinent information that you know. | 15:49 |
| starcraftman | Then use the right resource. I usually start with the system or wiki documentation. Or a Google search. | 15:49 |
| starcraftman | http://search.ubuntu.com is fast becoming a favourite of mine to get quick answers as it indexes most of the good resources. | 15:49 |
| starcraftman | If looking on your own fails to turn up help, I’d next suggest the forums or IRC. Search them carefully and if you can’t find relevant info ask in ABT for help with all the information you know. | 15:50 |
| starcraftman | Next if that doesn’t work, see Launchpad answers/bug system as relevant. | 15:50 |
| starcraftman | There’s no hard fast rule, it’s more of an experience thing finding good answers. The more you do it the easier it becomes. It's not too intimidating now I hope. | 15:50 |
| starcraftman | Do please consider where the information comes from before doing anything, if you do a Google search and you find a lone blog post detailing an answer with no comments or any affiliation with Ubuntu that’s been abandoned by the poster, you should hesitate. | 15:50 |
| starcraftman | Where the information comes from is important. | 15:51 |
| starcraftman | I know it’s a lot of information to absorb, I hope you’ve found it helpful. | 15:51 |
| starcraftman | I have extra links I may not have mentioned on my outline as listed at the beginning. Click and browse them at your leisure. | 15:51 |
| starcraftman | I guess we can open questions, to do so orderly please follow the question format- | 15:51 |
| starcraftman | /Begin_Asking_Questions | 15:51 |
| nigelbabu | Question How important are quotes for searches in a browser? | 15:52 |
| starcraftman | Good question. Remember that when your searching with quotes your searching an exact string. This is most useful when you have a snippet of an error and want to search for it. Say for example.... "xrender failed to intialize" | 15:54 |
| starcraftman | Hope it was clear but when searching do just stick to keywords, drop all "the" and "it" or "and". You may want to use them in string searches though. | 15:55 |
| nigelbabu | Question what will be the most effect way to type a keyword to search an answer? | 15:56 |
| starcraftman | Ah, this really depends. Experience as I said gives you more insight into where and how to search for answers. In general a standard well thought out (i.e. carefully consider order of keywords) may be all you need. | 15:57 |
| starcraftman | So if I had nvidia problem with my 8800 GT.... "Ubuntu 9.10 nvidia 8800GT" without the quotes in google would probably turn up some results of other karmic users having trouble with nvidiia card. | 15:58 |
| starcraftman | Ultimately, more you practice searching easier it becomes. | 15:58 |
| starcraftman | Don't be shy bout reading googleguide, nice site. It goes into much more depth. | 15:58 |
| nigelbabu | QUESTION Are books a good resource to help a friend get started with ubuntu, as opposed to or along with what you've told us about today? | 15:59 |
| starcraftman | Interesting question. Yes I do have a few good books I like, for those that may want something a bit more structured and tangible. | 16:00 |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Restricted Drivers ~~ Presented by jamalta || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| starcraftman | A practical Guide to ubuntu Linux by Sobel is a quite comprehensive read. | 16:00 |
| starcraftman | See amazon. | 16:00 |
| cjohnston | Thank you starcraftman ! | 16:00 |
| starcraftman | Beginning Ubuntu linux fourth edition by Thomas also good. Time pretty much up now. | 16:01 |
| starcraftman | Hope yall enjoyed, I'll move to chat if there's any more questions. | 16:01 |
| cjohnston | Next up is Jamal Fanaian. Jamal lives in Orlando, FL and is a member of the Florida LoCo.... | 16:01 |
| cjohnston | Go Florida! | 16:01 |
| cjohnston | He have been a web developer for a few years, and has been using Ubuntu as his primary operating system | 16:01 |
| cjohnston | for about two years now. Jamal like to help out with the Ubuntu Community and show up to LoCo events, as well as helping out | 16:02 |
| cjohnston | some open source projects with code and what not. | 16:02 |
| jamalta | Hi! :) | 16:02 |
| jamalta | Before I start, I wanted to thank starcraftman for a great talk, as well as everyone that went before him, and everyone else left in the day. Also, I wanted to thank everyone that has been working hard for months in making this day a success, you guys rock! | 16:02 |
| jamalta | So like cjohnston said, I'm Jamal and I'm going to be talking about Restricted Drivers. Feel free to ask questions at ANY time during this talk in #ubuntu-classroom-chat. Please prefix your questions with QUESTION: so I can easily see them. | 16:03 |
| jamalta | I'll be keeping an eye, and I don't mind pausing at any point :) | 16:03 |
| cjohnston | jamalta no colons! | 16:03 |
| jamalta | cjohnston: ok | 16:03 |
| cjohnston | !fail | 16:04 |
| jamalta | Alright, so let's get started! | 16:04 |
| jamalta | First, let's start off mentioning what drivers are and what they do for us. A driver is a program that facilitates communication with hardware. | 16:04 |
| jamalta | Restricted drivers, are drivers that are manufactured by a third-party, usually the hardware vendor, and are not open source. This makes it difficult for the community to contribute to innovating these drivers, which is why they are often not preferred. | 16:04 |
| jamalta | Anywho, you probably want your computer working as efficiently as possible, so Ubuntu has made it easy for us to load these restricted drivers in our system. | 16:05 |
| jamalta | So let's talk about the drivers manager | 16:05 |
| jamalta | Restricted Drivers Manager, or jockey as it is code named, is a tool that lets you activate restricted drivers. It simply checks your system against Ubuntu's database to check what closed drivers are available for you to use. | 16:05 |
| jamalta | You will often see it as an icon in your notification area (by the clock on the top right) that pops up telling you that you have restricted drivers available. | 16:05 |
| jamalta | Well, sorry let me rephrase,.. you will usually see it the first time you boot to Ubuntu. | 16:06 |
| jamalta | You can also access it by going to the System -> Administration -> Hardware Drivers. | 16:06 |
| jamalta | When you first open it, you will have to wait for it to scan your hardware and determine what drivers are available to you. As soon as that is done you will see a list of drivers you can activate. | 16:06 |
| jamalta | If you have an NVIDIA or ATI video card, you will often see the restricted drivers here. If you see multiple options, I would choose the recommended one. Select the driver and simply click the "Activate" button. You will have to reboot your system, but don't do it yet! | 16:07 |
| jamalta | Once you reboot, your system will be using the drivers and should have access to advanced features. For example, with the video drivers enabled, you will have access to 3d rendering and compositing (transparency and animations), if it wasn't working before. | 16:07 |
| jamalta | Next topic, installing drivers from the repository | 16:08 |
| jamalta | It is also possible to install drivers directly from the repository. You can do this in one of two ways, using the GUI tool, Synaptic, or through the command line, with aptitude. | 16:08 |
| jamalta | To install a driver from Synaptic, first open it by going to System -> Administration -> Synaptic Package Manager. | 16:08 |
| jamalta | Once you have it open, you have to find the driver you want. In this example, I'm going to go into ATI drivers. | 16:09 |
| jamalta | From Synaptic, search for xserver-xorg-video-fglrx. Check it, and click Apply. This will install fglrx which are the ATI restricted drivers. For NVIDIA, you will have to choose among the avialable options for nvidia-glx. Refer to this wiki for more help: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia | 16:09 |
| jamalta | You can also do this from the command line by running sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-fglrx. | 16:10 |
| jamalta | Another option, and our next topic, is to install the drivers directly from the vendors | 16:10 |
| jamalta | For ATI, you can visit ati.amd.com and search for your card. Select Linux (x86 for 32-bit, and x86_64 for 64-bit). And download the drivers. For NVIDA you can do the same by going to nvidia.com and searching for your card. | 16:11 |
| jamalta | 11:11 < jazz__> Question: wheni isntalled my nvidia fx5200 128mb my system wouldn't load i get a black screen and a string of goggbled words just after the pc loads & before the grub. would that be a driver problem? | 16:11 |
| jamalta | jazz_: that can be a driver problem.. usually, the system will try to fall back to vesa (standard drivers that are meant to work with practically anything) | 16:12 |
| jamalta | But if you have configured your system to use other drivers, then there would be a conflict. | 16:13 |
| jamalta | 11:13 < ehlim> Question if the driver version is newer than repos, could that cause system problem? | 16:14 |
| jamalta | ehlim: not always, the issue usually lies on whether the newer drivers support your current kernel | 16:14 |
| jamalta | i have upgraded to newer drivers before, but nowadays i try to be safe and use what is in the repos | 16:14 |
| jamalta | The only reason I would recommend to sticking with what is in the repository is because it will be easier for the community to help | 16:15 |
| jamalta | 11:15 < gukk_devel> QUESTION: what to do when the installer can't detect the onboard nvidia in combination with the monitor -> mode not supported | 16:16 |
| jamalta | Guest71766: that's a good question. i don't know exactly how to debug jockey to find out why it didn't detect it but the first thing i would do is report ab ug in launchpad | 16:16 |
| jamalta | err that was for gukk_devel... | 16:16 |
| jamalta | You can always try to install the drivers and configure them yourself. I'm going to touch on that a bit but it may be a bit heavy to do so, and I've screwed up my system a few times doing that. | 16:17 |
| jamalta | For now, let's move back to downloading drivers | 16:18 |
| jamalta | For ATI, you can visit ati.amd.com and search for your card. Select Linux (x86 for 32-bit, and x86_64 for 64-bit). And download the drivers. For NVIDA you can do the same by going to nvidia.com and searching for your card. | 16:18 |
| jamalta | In my case I would select ATI Radeon HD 4350, after selecting Linux x86_64 as my operating system | 16:19 |
| jamalta | Then you will be provided with a download that should work in your system | 16:19 |
| jamalta | In most cases, the drivers is a self-executable installer. So to install them, you simply open a terminal, browse to the directory the download is in (cd Downloads, or cd Desktop). | 16:19 |
| jamalta | Then run the installer by typing ./filename. So for ati, it would be ./ati-driver-installer-9-12-x86.x86_64.run. This will start the installer which may ask more questions about the install. | 16:20 |
| jamalta | If it gives you an error that the file is an executable, then you first have to make it executably by using th efollowing command | 16:20 |
| jamalta | chmod +x <filename> | 16:20 |
| jamalta | So if I wanted to make my drivers an executable, I would run | 16:20 |
| jamalta | chmod +x ati-driver-installer-9-12-x86.x86_64.run | 16:20 |
| jamalta | don't worry, it won't screw things up if you run that command more than once | 16:21 |
| jamalta | 11:20 < Jedemco> Question: If the driver is downloaded using FireFox, couldn't you just install the driver by double clicking in the download window? | 16:21 |
| jamalta | Jedemco: Yes, you could do that, but it will only work if the file is downloaded as an executable. Sometimes you have to chmod it to make it an executable first. | 16:21 |
| jamalta | I always do it from a terminal first, though, because often the drivers have more questions they ask.. and just to be safe that I see all the output I need. | 16:22 |
| jamalta | Once the installation is done you need to configure your system to use the drivers by running aticonfig --initial in the command line. | 16:22 |
| jamalta | You will probably have to prefix that command with sudo | 16:22 |
| jamalta | Always refer to the provided documentation for more help on configuration. The drivers will often come with a README file. If not, it should be available in the page you downloaded the drivers from. | 16:23 |
| jamalta | But generally, this method is least recommended as it difficult to support and often requires custom configuration. | 16:23 |
| jamalta | ehlim: just to point out, this is how you would upgrade to newer drivers if you downloaded them from the vendor. | 16:23 |
| jamalta | Something I'd like to point out is to use starcraftman's talk to find help if you ever get stuck when installing these drivers. | 16:24 |
| jamalta | Also, the people in #ubuntu are usually VERY helpful in answering these questions. | 16:24 |
| jamalta | Just remember, if you ask a question, and you don't get an answer, wait a few minutes and just ask it again. | 16:25 |
| jamalta | So on to our last topic | 16:26 |
| jamalta | Using Windows drivers with ndiswrapper | 16:26 |
| jamalta | Hopefully, your wireless already works and you won't have to do this. But some of us are unlucky enough to have a wireless card that just works. | 16:26 |
| jamalta | Oh, sorry, I need to backtrack a bit... We will be using wireless drivers as an example. This is what you will most often have an issue with. | 16:26 |
| jamalta | 11:26 < hhlp> question - what hapenned is a new relase of kernel is relese i have to install the graphic driver again | 16:27 |
| jamalta | hhlp: Usually, you will not have driver issues when upgrading drivers within the same distroseries. This means, that if you're system is using Karmic, and you are upgrading to newer kernels provided in Karmic, you shouldn't have an issue | 16:27 |
| jamalta | There are some cases where this isn't true. | 16:27 |
| jamalta | Most issues will occur when upgrading to a new distroseries. For example, I upgraded to Lucid and my video drivers are not working. This is because ATI has not released drivers for the newer Kernel in Lucid. | 16:28 |
| jamalta | 11:28 < jamon1> is it possible to use ndiswrapper with other drivers ( eg for antiquated webcam )? | 16:28 |
| jamalta | You didn't prefix your question ;).. maybe it wasn't meant for me, but I caught it anyway! | 16:29 |
| jamalta | jamon1: Webcams are VERY tricky. I've never had luck trying to get windows drivers working | 16:29 |
| jamalta | Your best bet will be to use V4L2 (Video 4 Linux) drivers, and hope your webcam is supported | 16:29 |
| jamalta | More information can be found in the V4l wiki, http://linuxtv.org/v4lwiki/index.php/Main_Page | 16:30 |
| jamalta | Uh oh, that's not the wiki, sorry | 16:30 |
| jamalta | Well it is but it's empty | 16:30 |
| jamalta | There's a link there to the new wiki, sorry! | 16:30 |
| jamalta | 11:30 < ehlim> Question: how about built in mic for note book? | 16:30 |
| jamalta | ehlim: That's another tricky one.. mic's have always worked for me. I've never had issues with any mic I've used. | 16:30 |
| jamalta | I would first check your sound options to make sure the mic is enabled and the volume is up for it. | 16:31 |
| jamalta | ehlim: in System > Preferences > Sound.. just check all over the place for mic recording volume, it's annoying, sorry. | 16:31 |
| jamalta | Also check to make sure the right Mic is chosen in the Input tab | 16:32 |
| jamalta | jamon1: Btw, here is the correct wiki http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page | 16:32 |
| jamalta | Also this page should be very helpful with webcams https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Webcam | 16:32 |
| jamalta | So let's go on to ndiswrapper. In my example I will be using a broadcom card, because that is what I've had most experience with, and honestly, I think it's the card that gives the most issues in Linux. | 16:33 |
| jamalta | First, let's install ndiswrapper by installing the ndiswrapper-utils-1.9 package. You can do this through Synaptic or apt-get (sudo apt-get install ndiswrapper-utils-1.9). | 16:34 |
| jamalta | Once you have ndiswrapper you need to get your hands on the Windows drivers. You will hopefully have a CD with them, but if not, you can always try finding them at broadcom.com or drivers.softpedia.com. | 16:34 |
| jamalta | If the drivers are in an executable (.exe file), you will have to first extract them in Windows and then copy them to your Ubuntu machine. If you have wine installed, you can attempt to extract them that way. Keep in mind that your C:\ directory is actually in ~/.wine/drive_c/. | 16:35 |
| jamalta | Once you have the driver files, open a terminal and go to the directory where the drivers were copied or extracted. The file you are interested in is the inf file. In my case, this is bcmwl5.inf. | 16:35 |
| jamalta | So, let's try to install it! Run ndiswrapper -i <filename.inf> In my case, it's ndiswrapper -i bcmwl5.inf | 16:36 |
| jamalta | Once that is done, you can run | 16:36 |
| jamalta | ndiswrapper -l | 16:36 |
| jamalta | Which will list the installed drivers | 16:37 |
| jamalta | This will also tell you if the driver is correct, by telling you the driver is installed and the device is present. | 16:37 |
| jamalta | 11:37 < MagicFab> jamalta, why not use ndisgtk ? | 16:37 |
| jamalta | MagicFab: Good question! I didn't know it existed! | 16:37 |
| jamalta | 11:38 < MagicFab> jamalta, the .inf file is not enough, you need to have all accompanying files. .inf is only a text file | 16:38 |
| jamalta | MagicFab, right.. sorry what I meant is that you need the inf file in the command. | 16:38 |
| jamalta | As MagicFab mentioned, you do have to have all the extracted files. Sorry about the confusion. | 16:39 |
| jamalta | So if you're still using ndiswrapper, the last thing to do is load it by running | 16:39 |
| jamalta | sudo modprobe ndiswrapper | 16:39 |
| jamalta | At this point, your wifi light will come on and your wifi will have started. I hope that is the case at least! | 16:39 |
| jamalta | MagicFab: Thank you so much for your suggestions! ndisgtk is actually pretty good. | 16:40 |
| jamalta | So if you install ndisgtk from the package manager, you should be able to do the same thing I just explained. Except, it's all in a GUI that is easy to follow. | 16:41 |
| jamalta | Anyways, that is pretty much all I have. I hope that I provided some insight on how to take care of your drivers. I'm going to leave room for any questions you may have. | 16:41 |
| jamalta | So please! I would hate to leave with 20 minutes left, heh. | 16:42 |
| jamalta | 11:43 < JLinden> Question: I tried installing the driver for ATI X1400 the way you explained, but I got an error saying that "./default_policy.sh does not support version ...". What am I doing wrong? | 16:44 |
| jamalta | it seems like the issue has to do with the ATI drivers not supporting the kernel you are on | 16:45 |
| jamalta | In those cases, I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) ATI has stopped upgrading the drivers for a specific card to the newer kernels. | 16:46 |
| jamalta | So your best bet is to try the radeon drivers (Open Source drivers) to see if they work. | 16:47 |
| jamalta | That is what is terrible about the restricted drivers.. we rely on these companies to "support" us and in most cases they don't do it well. | 16:48 |
| jamalta | 11:45 < jazz__> Question: how do you remove drivers completely | 16:48 |
| jamalta | jazz_: You will want to look at your package manager to get rid of drivers. For example, if I wanted to get rid of fglrx, then I would remove xserver-xorg-video-fglrx using Synaptic or apt-get remove | 16:48 |
| jamalta | Regarding the radeon drivers, this page has much more information on how to find out if your card is supported and installing them https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver | 16:50 |
| jamalta | I'm going to say goodbye now, as nigelbabu will be taking over and using the extra time for his class. I will answer questions in -chat. Thanks everyone! | 16:53 |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Using Launchpad ~~ Presented by nigel_nb || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| cjohnston | Thanks jamalta ! | 17:00 |
| cjohnston | Unfortunately freenode, the IRC network we use, has been hit hard recently with an influx of javascript spam. For more information please see http://blog.freenode.net/2010/01/javascript-spam/. Do not click other links that say you are infected or they are more information about the spam. | 17:01 |
| cjohnston | Also, at some point today please take the Ubuntu User Days Survey located at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | 17:01 |
| pleia2 | Nigel is a computer science student who is a passionate FOSS and Ubuntu enthusiast. He is involved is various teams in the Ubuntu community like the beginners Team, | 17:02 |
| pleia2 | Ubuntu Community Learning Project, and Bug Squad. | 17:02 |
| nigelbabu | Alright, like starcraftman, I've got a lot of ground to cover and only the hour. I'm going to go fast, so buck up! Please keep questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat, reserve them for when I ask for them. Please make sure you keep them prefaced with "QUESTION - " so people can see them. | 17:03 |
| nigelbabu | Also, please don't PM me during this session. | 17:03 |
| nigelbabu | As pleia2 mentioned, I'm Nigel Babu and I'm Ubuntu's bug squad member. I'm here to talk today about Launchpad. hggdh will be assisting me with answering your bug reporting queries later on in the session :) | 17:04 |
| nigelbabu | Launchpad is a collaboration and hosting platform for software projects. | 17:04 |
| nigelbabu | It brings communities together by making it easy to share code, bug reports, translations and ideas across projects. | 17:04 |
| nigelbabu | Now, my main focus is why it is a good idea for you, as a user, to sign up for a Launchpad account. | 17:05 |
| nigelbabu | There are mainly 3 services that you might want to use after signing up for Launchpad -- OpenID, Launchpad Answers, and Reporting Bugs. | 17:05 |
| nigelbabu | I will be elaborating about how to report bugs in great detail while touching through the others. | 17:06 |
| nigelbabu | Now, lets talk about Launchpad an Open ID provider. | 17:06 |
| nigelbabu | Open ID allows you to use an existing account to sign in to multiple websites, without needing to create new passwords. | 17:06 |
| nigelbabu | However, rather than entering that username and password at each website, you use a website you trust -- such as Launchpad -- to confirm your identity to the other sites. | 17:06 |
| nigelbabu | Now, here is how it works : | 17:07 |
| nigelbabu | You visit a website that supports OpenID and it asks you to log in. | 17:07 |
| nigelbabu | Enter the Launchpad profile URL - https://launchpad.net/~your-nickname. (lernid guys, apologies, you'll see page not found) | 17:08 |
| nigelbabu | If you're not already logged into Launchpad, it'll ask you to enter your username and password. | 17:08 |
| nigelbabu | Once you're successfully logged into Launchpad, it'll return you to the site you want to use. | 17:08 |
| nigelbabu | Simple! This means that you only need to remember your Launchpad profile URL, username and password in order to use websites that support OpenID. | 17:08 |
| nigelbabu | You can use Launchpad to log into any of the growing number of sites that support OpenID. | 17:08 |
| nigelbabu | So where can you use it? Blogs on blogger, wordpress (using an openID plugin), LiveJournal, and many more. | 17:09 |
| nigelbabu | For the full list, please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenID#Adoption | 17:09 |
| nigelbabu | Okay, so any questions so far about OpenID with Launchpad? | 17:09 |
| pleia2 | < oskude> QUESTION - is there a "fear" to get scammed for your OpenID ? | 17:10 |
| nigelbabu | oskude, could you explain more? I dont understand your question | 17:11 |
| pleia2 | < oskude> or how im sure that a site really uses OpenID ? and not try to scam my ID ? | 17:11 |
| nigelbabu | well, when you try to signup for open ID, it will take you to your provider's side, i.e. launchpad | 17:11 |
| nigelbabu | make sure that the browser location shows http://www.launchpad.net and you should be fine | 17:12 |
| pleia2 | < Brot1> QUESTION: why is launchpad only a OpenID-provider and not except OpenID accounts from other providers? | 17:12 |
| nigelbabu | well, that functionality is not yet written. | 17:13 |
| nigelbabu | remember launchpad is in active development and features get added all the time | 17:13 |
| nigelbabu | Let's move onto Launchpad Answers. | 17:14 |
| nigelbabu | Please hold your questions till the end of this one | 17:14 |
| nigelbabu | starcraftman covered this briefly and I'll take you through it in more detail. | 17:14 |
| nigelbabu | While mailing lists, web forums, and IRC are great places to find help with free software they do have a couple of shortcomings: | 17:15 |
| nigelbabu | oops, sorry lernid guys | 17:15 |
| nigelbabu | (a) There's no way to track the progress of a question and knowledge about the software is spread across different places. | 17:15 |
| nigelbabu | so the solution to that is launchpad answers. | 17:16 |
| nigelbabu | Launchpad Answers is unique in that it works like a bug tracker. | 17:16 |
| nigelbabu | It notifies volunteer support contacts of new questions, builds a searchable knowledge base of good answers, and allows people to ask questions and offer support in different languages. | 17:16 |
| nigelbabu | Using Launchpad Answers is easy, first off, visit the Answers page at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu. | 17:16 |
| nigelbabu | Click on the "Ask a Question" link in the right top of the page. Next, type good summary to your question. | 17:17 |
| nigelbabu | of course I would assume that you are signed in. If you're not, just listen in. You can try it out later. | 17:17 |
| nigelbabu | Just make sure that the question is entered clearly. | 17:17 |
| nigelbabu | starcraftman covered asking questions properly on forums and it applies here too | 17:18 |
| nigelbabu | "Please help me!" or "I need help" is not a good summary ;) . | 17:18 |
| nigelbabu | A good summary would be "How to replace a hard drive without losing the boot loader" or something in that tone | 17:18 |
| nigelbabu | Click on next, and Launchpad will now search for existing questions that look similar. | 17:18 |
| nigelbabu | If it finds any, it will show you them. If Launchpad doesn't find any similar questions, or those it finds are unhelpful to you, you can write a more detailed description of your problem and submit your question. | 17:18 |
| nigelbabu | Once you've added your question, Launchpad emails anyone who's volunteered to be an answer contact for your language. | 17:19 |
| nigelbabu | They can then ask you for more information or offer an answer. Launchpad will then email you whenever your question changes, such as when someone suggests an answer. | 17:19 |
| nigelbabu | Thats about for LP answers. Questions? | 17:20 |
| nigelbabu | Question - will Lauchpad collect information on our system? like hardware info? | 17:21 |
| nigelbabu | well, launchpad as such does not collect information. Its apport which collects it and automatically adds to a bug report. But that works only for bugs anyway. | 17:22 |
| nigelbabu | for those of who you who dont know, Apport is a script that collects information about a software when you report a problem. (I'll talk about it soon!) | 17:22 |
| pleia2 | < Yos> Question When starcraftman gave his session, it sounded like asking questions on launchpad should be nearly the last resort, but you make it sound more like it should be done at even an early troubleshooting step that is, to centralize the knowledge base. My question is, when should someone turn to launchpad to ask their question? | 17:23 |
| nigelbabu | its personal perference really. Some people like forums - there is a sizeable crowd there and I feel you have a better chance there. | 17:24 |
| nigelbabu | LP answers are people like me - lazy to browse forums, just doing a quick dash of questions I understand when I get the time | 17:24 |
| nigelbabu | both sides have volunteers and a good community. Basically boil down to personal perference | 17:25 |
| nigelbabu | okay, so lets move on to bug reporting now | 17:25 |
| nigelbabu | Ubuntu as you know Launchpad for reporting bugs. | 17:26 |
| nigelbabu | Launchpad is a very unique bug tracker and we'll be covering how to make your bug report more complete and therefore more likely to get fixed! | 17:26 |
| nigelbabu | Very often we see bug reports with incomplete information, which means more time is spent getting the actual information. If you give proper information, its easy for us triagers to confirm the bug so the developers can look into it. | 17:27 |
| nigelbabu | so, now, we'll be looking at how to ensure that you give proper information | 17:27 |
| nigelbabu | Even though you can report bugs directly from the website, we suggest that you don't you do that. | 17:28 |
| nigelbabu | in fact, most of the time, the appropriate information is never really attached or given when you report from the web interface | 17:28 |
| nigelbabu | If you want to report a bug on an application that is running and responding, use the application's help menu: Help -> Report a problem. | 17:28 |
| nigelbabu | Its a GUI that will collect the necessary information required for that software. | 17:29 |
| nigelbabu | like this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=report-a-problem.png | 17:29 |
| nigelbabu | If an application crashes, and you're using a version of Ubuntu which is actively under development, Apport will start automatically, raising an appropriate bug report for you to complete in Launchpad. This provides developers with rich debugging information that will make it easier to fix the problem. | 17:30 |
| nigelbabu | for more information about apport, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport | 17:30 |
| nigelbabu | some times, you really can't use the menu for reporting bugs for example : | 17:31 |
| nigelbabu | You're using the Server Edition, The application doesn't have the appropriate menu item, | 17:31 |
| nigelbabu | The application won't start at all, or Your problem is not related to an application but is an infrastructure component, such as the Linux kernel or graphics subsystem | 17:31 |
| nigelbabu | this is when you use a small command line program called "ubuntu-bug" | 17:32 |
| nigelbabu | supposing firefox is giving you trouble | 17:32 |
| nigelbabu | to report a bug about firefox, you simply type "ubuntu-bug firefox" in the Alt + F2 dialog (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-bug.png) | 17:33 |
| nigelbabu | the format is ubuntu-bug <package-name> | 17:33 |
| nigelbabu | so, it is very critical you have the package right | 17:34 |
| nigelbabu | if you have a problem with epiphany browser, you would report it against "epiphany-browser" and not "epiphany" - epiphany is a game | 17:34 |
| nigelbabu | to know more about finding the right package, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage | 17:35 |
| nigelbabu | To file a bug against a program that is currently running, go to System > Administration > System Monitor, and find the ID of the process: | 17:35 |
| nigelbabu | for example https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=system-monitor-id.png | 17:36 |
| nigelbabu | Then type the process ID instead of the package name into the "Run Application" window. | 17:36 |
| nigelbabu | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-bug-pid.png | 17:36 |
| nigelbabu | In the event that you have a bug with your internet connection or want to file a bug for another system you can still do this using apport. | 17:37 |
| nigelbabu | Using the command apport-cli -f -p <package name> on the target system will collect information and provide you with an option to "K: Keep report file for sending later or copying to somewhere else". | 17:37 |
| nigelbabu | The report is then saved on the target system, in your /tmp directory which is cleared out on reboot, with a .apport extension. | 17:37 |
| nigelbabu | After copying it to a different system you can file that report using ubuntu-bug <location of apport file>. | 17:37 |
| nigelbabu | A special note, all translation issues should be filed against the Ubuntu Translations project (ubuntu-translations). From there the bugs will be triaged and assigned to the right person and package. | 17:38 |
| nigelbabu | Wrong translations or spelling mistakes in applications, Errors in spellcheckers or language support, etc all come under translations bug | 17:38 |
| nigelbabu | If for some reason you cannot file a bug through the Apport tool you can file one via Launchpad. When doing so please ensure that you have determined which package it should be filed against. | 17:39 |
| nigelbabu | ensure that you read the "Finding the right package" link I gave earlier. Well, here it is again : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage | 17:39 |
| nigelbabu | To report a bug when you don't know the package name https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect - please use this as the last instance. If you need help with filing a bug, do drop by at #ubuntu-bugs. We'd be happy to help | 17:40 |
| nigelbabu | If you have already reported a bug directly via Launchpad, but want to add additional debugging information via Apport to the bug, you can do this by running the command "apport-collect BUGNUMBER" via "Run Application" or terminal window. | 17:41 |
| nigelbabu | now moving on to the report itself | 17:41 |
| nigelbabu | When a developer fixes a bug, they will test that the bug occurs, make a small change to the program, then see if the bug has gone away. Depending on the bug, they might need to run the same test dozens or hundreds of times. When you submit a bug report, it's important to specify three things: | 17:42 |
| nigelbabu | (1) What you expected to happen (2) What actually happened (3) The minimal series of steps necessary to make it happen, where step 1 is "start the program" | 17:42 |
| nigelbabu | Fill in the description field with as much information as you can, including the release of Ubuntu you are using and steps for someone else to recreate the bug. It is better to have too much information in the description than not enough. | 17:42 |
| nigelbabu | Only describe a single problem per bug report so that each can be followed up on in detail. If you experience several issues file separate reports. | 17:42 |
| nigelbabu | Add supporting attachments to explain or help others reproduce your bug. This might include a screenshot or video capture of the problem or a sample document that triggers the fault. To add an attachment to the bug use the Include an attachment section of the bug form. Additional attachments, if necessary, can be added after the bug is reported via Add a comment/attachment at the bottom of the page. | 17:43 |
| nigelbabu | For anything hardware related, give precise details about your hardware. Attaching the output of "lspci -vvnn" and "dmesg", after a fresh boot, will help a lot. | 17:43 |
| nigelbabu | A bug report can be under different status, initially, it is in the "New" status | 17:43 |
| nigelbabu | this is the latest bug for ubuntu filed. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/511632 | 17:44 |
| nigelbabu | notice the status is "New" | 17:44 |
| nigelbabu | It will be changed to Confirmed if someone else can reproduce the same problem and confirm that the issue is actually a bug. | 17:45 |
| nigelbabu | Please do not confirm your own bug, that would defeat the purpose of having "Confirmed" status | 17:45 |
| nigelbabu | If a bug triager has asked you for more information, he/she will set the status to incomplete. Once you submit the information, do not hesitate to change the status back to "New" | 17:46 |
| nigelbabu | If you look at the bug report I showed, you'll see a green text "This bug affects 1 person. Does this bug affect you?" | 17:47 |
| nigelbabu | Please dont click that button if your bug is a hardware bug. The same issue can be caused by several different hardware and each need to be different bugs. | 17:48 |
| nigelbabu | Clicking on me too! is not going to solve your problem. | 17:48 |
| nigelbabu | If your issue is software bug, like the bug I just showed (which i suspect could be some trouble with the mirrors), you *could* click for me too and leave comments | 17:49 |
| nigelbabu | moving on to What is NOT a bug! | 17:50 |
| nigelbabu | Support requests - they are not bugs. Please use #ubuntu IRC channel, forums, LP answers, and other community support means | 17:50 |
| nigelbabu | Feature and policy discussions (including suggestions to change defaults) should be discussed on the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list. | 17:51 |
| nigelbabu | exception to the above are small feature requests to a particular software (like support webchat in pidgin - its there now!) | 17:51 |
| nigelbabu | Development ideas should be posted to http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ or discussed on the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list. | 17:52 |
| nigelbabu | Already filed - if its a software bug and already filed, then better subscribe to the one already filed and add any additonal information if any | 17:52 |
| nigelbabu | Okay, thats it for the class. hggdh and I are available for questions :) | 17:52 |
| nigelbabu | QUESTION - Are Launchpad bugs connected to bzr ? as in, can i close a bug from bzr command line while submitting (pushing) a commit ? | 17:53 |
| hggdh | no | 17:54 |
| hggdh | here's why: pushing a commit will *not* resolve the bug. Only when the commit is actually deployed this will happen | 17:54 |
| hggdh | and you get that done by adding (LP: xxxxx) on the changelog | 17:54 |
| nigelbabu | QUESTION - I'm not sure I understand: does Apport report to launchpad ? If not, how do we get feedback on the reported bug ? | 17:55 |
| nigelbabu | yes. Apport brings you to the LP page. | 17:56 |
| nigelbabu | here, you need to add more details about the bug like the summary and description | 17:56 |
| hggdh | and the submitter is automagically subscribed to any updates on the bug | 17:56 |
| nigelbabu | A few more minutes to take some quick questions. Any more? | 17:57 |
| cjohnston | Thank you very much nigelbabu and hggdh! | 17:59 |
| nigelbabu | Okay. That's about it then. Thank you hggdh for you help :) | 17:59 |
| nigelbabu | I guess I forgot to introduce hggdh. He is a member of bug control and mentor to a lot of new Bug Squad members :) | 17:59 |
| * hggdh bows | 17:59 | |
| cjohnston | Again.. Please take our Ubuntu User Days survey today! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | 17:59 |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Seahorse and GnuPG ~~ Presented by mhall119 || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| cjohnston | Our next speaker is another member of the Ubuntu Florida LoCo team! | 18:00 |
| cjohnston | Michael Hall has been working in software development for 10 years. He has been a Desktop Linux user for 6 years, the last 4 being on Ubuntu. | 18:00 |
| cjohnston | He is the main developer of Qimo, an Ubuntu-derived Linux Distribution for kids. He currently spends his days doing Python development for the | 18:00 |
| cjohnston | Moffitt Cancer Research Center in Tampa, FL. | 18:00 |
| mhall119 | thanks cjohnston | 18:01 |
| mhall119 | so I'm going to be talking about cryptography, what it is and how it's used by Ubuntu | 18:02 |
| mhall119 | and also how it can be used by you | 18:02 |
| mhall119 | if you go over to my notes for this session, there's some helpful images and screenshots https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/SeahorseGPG | 18:03 |
| mhall119 | so there are two types of encryption in regular use | 18:04 |
| mhall119 | in the past, the most often used form was symmetric cryptography | 18:04 |
| mhall119 | what this means it that you have one key, and that key is used to both encrypt and decrypt the data | 18:04 |
| mhall119 | much like a physical lock | 18:05 |
| mhall119 | so, if you want to use that to securely send a box to someone, you need to send them the box, the lock, and a copy of the key | 18:05 |
| mhall119 | now, the problem is that you have a much harder time keeping that key safe, because it's having to be passed around, or you have to give out multiple copies | 18:06 |
| mhall119 | and if you send them all together, then it defeats the purpose of locking the box in the first place | 18:07 |
| mhall119 | so some time ago some very smart people developed an alternative method called public key cryptography | 18:07 |
| mhall119 | and what makes that different is that instead of one key, you have two | 18:08 |
| mhall119 | and those two keys are different, but related | 18:08 |
| mhall119 | specifically, they are used in a new kind of lock, and if you use one of the keys to lock it, then only the other key can unlock it | 18:09 |
| mhall119 | now, the reason it's called "public key" cryptography is because you make one of these keys publicly available, to anyone that wants it | 18:10 |
| mhall119 | and you keep the other one completely private, you never give it to anybody, you don't let anybody see it | 18:10 |
| mhall119 | so now if you want to send a box to your friend, you get their public key (which they made available to everyone), and you use that to lock the box | 18:11 |
| mhall119 | and because you used their public key to lock it, only their private key can be used to unlock it. Not even the key you used to lock it can unlock it | 18:11 |
| mhall119 | so now you can send the locked box over an unsecured route like the post office, knowing that the only person in the world who has a key that can unlock it is your friend | 18:12 |
| mhall119 | for added security, you can lock the box twice | 18:13 |
| mhall119 | once as before, using your friend's public key | 18:13 |
| mhall119 | and then again, using your private key | 18:13 |
| mhall119 | and what that does is not only let you know that only your friend can open it | 18:13 |
| mhall119 | but now your friend, using your public key to unlock it, knows that you are the only person in the world who could have sent it | 18:14 |
| mhall119 | any questions so far? | 18:14 |
| mhall119 | oskude> as i haven't ever had something i would need to be a secret that only a key can open... where do you need this ? | 18:15 |
| mhall119 | very shortly I'm going to show you how this is used in Ubuntu, and the benefits it gives you | 18:15 |
| nigelbabu | question - how strong should a key be? in your screenshots you use strength 768 | 18:16 |
| mhall119 | okay, so public key cryptography has several implementations | 18:16 |
| mhall119 | the key strenght is up to you, I used the default values in my screenshots | 18:16 |
| mhall119 | the larger the key, the longer it would take some evil government to crack it | 18:17 |
| mhall119 | but it also takes longer for it to encrypt and decrypt things | 18:17 |
| mhall119 | so it's a judgement call, what level of security do you need? | 18:17 |
| mhall119 | so, Ubuntu has a few implementations of this | 18:18 |
| mhall119 | SSH, or the secure shell, which provides an encrypted connection between two boxes similar to telnet | 18:18 |
| mhall119 | GnuPG, which is an open source implementation of PGP (Pretty Good Privacy), which is used to sign and encrypt files and email | 18:19 |
| cjohnston | < Brot1> and which key length is recommended? | 18:19 |
| mhall119 | and SSL, which you should all be familiar with, is the underlying technology behind HTTPS | 18:19 |
| mhall119 | I personally use 4096 bit keys, which is probably overkill, but I'm not encrypting things where speed of encryption matters | 18:19 |
| mhall119 | for something like SSL or SSH, it might slow you down slightly | 18:20 |
| mhall119 | I'm sure there's plenty of references on the internet with people arguing for or against larger keys | 18:20 |
| mhall119 | okay, moving on | 18:21 |
| mhall119 | Ubuntu uses these technologies for some of it's underlying systems | 18:21 |
| mhall119 | the repositories that feed apt and synaptic are secured through GPG | 18:21 |
| mhall119 | every package on them is signed by Canonical | 18:22 |
| mhall119 | so that means that you can verify that every package you download hasn't been modified by someone else | 18:22 |
| mhall119 | even if someone hacked into the repository server,and replaced packages with their own that contained a virus | 18:23 |
| mhall119 | it wouldn't let you install it, because the signature wouldn't match | 18:23 |
| mhall119 | the same goes for the PPA (personal package archives) available on Launchpad | 18:23 |
| mhall119 | those packages aren't signed by Canonical, but rather the owner of the PPA | 18:24 |
| mhall119 | so if you trust the owner of the PPA not to include a virus or trojan in their packages, you add their public key to your system, and that will be used to verify their packages | 18:24 |
| mhall119 | finally, if you want to become a contributor to Ubuntu, you will need to sign the code of conduct | 18:25 |
| mhall119 | and that requires that you use your private key to "sign" the actual CoC file | 18:26 |
| mhall119 | signing doesn't encrypt the data, but rather is creates a short encrypted "signature" of the data, which when checked with the other key in the pair, will tell someone that the plain text message matches what the sender signed | 18:27 |
| mhall119 | any questions before we move on? | 18:27 |
| mhall119 | great | 18:28 |
| mhall119 | now for the fun part | 18:28 |
| mhall119 | Under Applications->Accessories you will find "Passwords and Encryption Keys" | 18:28 |
| mhall119 | this is a graphical frontend to GnuPG called Seahorse | 18:28 |
| mhall119 | and it will let you manage your PGP and SSH keys, and also will store passwords for you so that you don't have to remember them all | 18:29 |
| mhall119 | so now we're going to walk through creating a private and public key of your very own | 18:30 |
| mhall119 | Go to File->New | 18:30 |
| mhall119 | and select PGP Key | 18:30 |
| mhall119 | Put in your Name, email, and a comment | 18:30 |
| mhall119 | you can see in my screenshot that I made one specifically for this session | 18:31 |
| mhall119 | under the "Advanced" settings is where you can is where you can set the type and length of the key | 18:31 |
| mhall119 | so fill that out and press the create button | 18:32 |
| mhall119 | this will take a few minutes, depending on your CPU speed and key size | 18:32 |
| mhall119 | so we'll stop for questions | 18:32 |
| mhall119 | if there are any | 18:32 |
| mhall119 | again, you can follow along with the screenshots here if you aren't actually making the keys: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/SeahorseGPG | 18:33 |
| _marx_ | QUESTION If I lose or forget the passphrase will i have to make a new key? | 18:34 |
| mhall119 | yes | 18:34 |
| mhall119 | you can change the passphrase if you want, but you will need to know the old one to do so | 18:34 |
| mhall119 | do not forget your passphrase, and do not lose your private key, or you will need to make new ones | 18:34 |
| mhall119 | and your old public key will not no longer be usable | 18:35 |
| _marx_ | question - what is the diference with DSA (elgamal) and DSA (only sign) | 18:35 |
| mhall119 | I'm not really sure what DSA (elgamal) is | 18:35 |
| cjohnston | < somnoliento> QUESTION What's the relationship between this PGP keys and the keyring (a common dialog in ubuntu sessions) | 18:36 |
| mhall119 | you can ignore the (only sign), those are flags for users, you can still encrypt with those keys | 18:36 |
| mhall119 | good question | 18:36 |
| mhall119 | a keyring is a single place to store multiple keys | 18:37 |
| mhall119 | your GnuPG keyring contains your private keys, your public keys, and the public keys of other people you know | 18:37 |
| mhall119 | alright, we're gonna have to move one due to time | 18:38 |
| mhall119 | if anyone is still generating keys, you can follow along with the screenshots | 18:38 |
| mhall119 | once you have your key, you can view it's properties | 18:38 |
| mhall119 | you should note the Key ID and Fingerprint for your key, you will use them later | 18:39 |
| mhall119 | now, it's time to make your public key public | 18:39 |
| mhall119 | select your new key, and goto Remote->Sync and publish keys | 18:40 |
| mhall119 | click on the Key Servers button to see the public keyservers available | 18:40 |
| mhall119 | on the "Publish keys to: " drop down, select the ubuntu server | 18:41 |
| mhall119 | you also have two more options here | 18:41 |
| mhall119 | you can have your system automatically check these key servers for a person's public key when you recieve something encrypted or signed by them | 18:42 |
| mhall119 | you can also have it automatically sync the public keys in your keyring if you change them | 18:42 |
| mhall119 | it's up to you if you want to enable those, I do for convenience | 18:42 |
| mhall119 | okay, now close that dialog and click the Sync button | 18:43 |
| mhall119 | this will upload your public key to the ubuntu keyserver | 18:43 |
| mhall119 | and it will eventually be sent to the other public keyservers too, as they all share key data | 18:43 |
| cjohnston | < oskude> QUESTION - i assume there is no confirmation screen after "sync" ? | 18:44 |
| mhall119 | you can check that your key has been uploaded by going to the web interface: http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/ and doing a search on your name | 18:44 |
| mhall119 | no, I don't think there is a confirmation on sync | 18:44 |
| mhall119 | it may take a few minutes to get published | 18:44 |
| mhall119 | alright, now we need to get someone's public key from those keyservers | 18:46 |
| mhall119 | back in Seahorse, go to Remote->Find Remote Keys | 18:46 |
| mhall119 | and search for "Ubuntu User Day" | 18:47 |
| mhall119 | you will see a few of them now, as it seems some of you used the same comment I did :) | 18:47 |
| mhall119 | my key, as you saw in the screenshots, has id 08FBB574 | 18:47 |
| cjohnston | < Yos> Question is there a way to delete from these keyservers obsolete public keys | 18:47 |
| mhall119 | right-click that and select Import | 18:48 |
| mhall119 | cjohnston, I don't think so, when a key is obsolete, you generally add it to a published "revokation" list | 18:48 |
| mhall119 | so that people know it was explicitly removed from use | 18:48 |
| mhall119 | alright, now if you go to the "Other Keys" tab, you should see my User Day key there | 18:49 |
| mhall119 | double-click that to view it's properties | 18:49 |
| mhall119 | now for some more magic | 18:50 |
| _marx_ | 10 minutes | 18:50 |
| mhall119 | if you go to the Trust tab you can sign my public key with your private key | 18:50 |
| mhall119 | and what this does it let other people know that you believe that key belongs to me | 18:50 |
| mhall119 | so even if someone else doesn't know that, if they trust you, then they can be assured | 18:50 |
| mhall119 | wow, 10 minutes left, okay the next will have to go by fast | 18:50 |
| mhall119 | I'm gonna skip the ssh and password parts, they're pretty straight forward, you can see the screenshots | 18:51 |
| mhall119 | now, you can integrate your new PGP key into Evolution to sign and encrypt outgoing email | 18:51 |
| mhall119 | and also to decrypt and verify incoming email | 18:52 |
| mhall119 | in Evolution, go to Edit->Preferences and select your account | 18:52 |
| mhall119 | on the Security tab, you can put the key id from your key, and evolution will use that | 18:52 |
| mhall119 | when someone sends you an encrypted or signed email, Evolution will display an icon at the bottom telling you the state of it | 18:53 |
| mhall119 | whether it was valid, and who it was from | 18:53 |
| mhall119 | finally, if you install the package seahorse-plugins, you will have extra options in Nautilus and GEdit to sign or encrypt | 18:54 |
| mhall119 | in nautilus, you can right-click any file (not folder) and encrypt it | 18:54 |
| mhall119 | if you want more than one file, compress them into a .zip or .tar.gz and encrypt that | 18:54 |
| _marx_ | 5 minutes | 18:55 |
| mhall119 | and from Gedit, under the Edit menu will be options to sign/encrypt/decrypt and verify | 18:55 |
| mhall119 | alright, any questions in the last 5 minutes? | 18:55 |
| pleia2 | < oskude> QUESTION - Should i copy that "Key ID" (8 characters) row from Seashore (Passwords and Encryption Keys) or right click and select copy (gets a longer string) ? (for the evolution settings) | 18:55 |
| _marx_ | QUESTION - Should i copy that "Key ID" (8 characters) row from Seashore (Passwords and Encryption Keys) or right click and select copy (gets a longer string) ? (for the evolution settings) | 18:55 |
| mhall119 | just the key id | 18:55 |
| mhall119 | anything else? | 18:56 |
| mhall119 | you have my email address now (it on my public key), so you can always email me for more questions | 18:56 |
| mhall119 | or find me in #ubuntu-us-fl just about any time | 18:56 |
| mhall119 | okay, well thank you all for coming, and enjoy your new cryptographic powers! | 18:57 |
| === pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Choosing hardware that will work with Ubuntu ~~ Presented by MagicFab || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| nigelbabu | Thanks mhall119 for that wonderful session | 19:00 |
| nigelbabu | next up is MagicFab with a session on Choosing hardware that works with Ubuntu | 19:01 |
| nigelbabu | Fabián work at Canonical's Global Support Services center in Montreal, Canada as a senior support analyst and technical trainer since November 2006. | 19:02 |
| nigelbabu | The scope of his works includes hardware, desktop and server support issues, as well as training support partners on how to best tackle those. | 19:03 |
| MagicFab | inasec | 19:03 |
| nigelbabu | He is mostly interested in free technologies advocacy (including formats, content, licensing) & training for new users, with an emphasis on security. | 19:03 |
| nigelbabu | well, MagicFab is going to take a minute. During that time I'd like to remind you all about the attacks again! | 19:03 |
| nigelbabu | Please do not click any links that say about the attacks and promise to give more information | 19:04 |
| nigelbabu | and when you get the time, do answer the survey at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | 19:04 |
| MagicFab | Ok, I take a glass of water and brb in 1 | 19:05 |
| nigelbabu | As you all know, there is a Spanish version of Ubuntu User Day and MagicFab just finished a class there. | 19:06 |
| MagicFab | OK let's roll :) nigelbabu tx for the intro | 19:07 |
| MagicFab | My session today is described at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/ChoosingHardwareThatWorks | 19:07 |
| MagicFab | You'll find contact info too, in case anything remains unclear/unanswered | 19:08 |
| MagicFab | And just to be SUPER CLEAR: this will NOT be about troubleshooting, but rather how to buy your hardware so you don't have to troubleshoot ANYTHING :) | 19:08 |
| MagicFab | and also understanding why your existing hardware doesn't work (if/when it doesn't) | 19:09 |
| MagicFab | Questions welcome ANYTIME | 19:09 |
| MagicFab | In my daily work at support I often get support cases that have this remark: "BTW, my hardware run fine on Windows / Mac OSX ." | 19:10 |
| MagicFab | runs8 | 19:10 |
| MagicFab | runs* | 19:10 |
| MagicFab | :) | 19:10 |
| MagicFab | So I want to start with that misconception. | 19:10 |
| MagicFab | It's important to know why this has nothing to do with the same hardware working in Ubuntu (or in general, Linux) | 19:11 |
| MagicFab | I often politely say "ok, so we know it's not broken" ! .. which may be useful to know anyways... well.. | 19:11 |
| MagicFab | The fact is all hardware that work on Windows or Mac and lists it under its requirements most likely came with drivers for it. Would you expect a wheel designed for a Hummer to fit on your bicycle ? | 19:12 |
| MagicFab | Or would you expect to be able to call Hummer/GM/whoever and have a "workaround" in five minutes ? | 19:12 |
| MagicFab | Ok, I know this example is not exactly fitting :) But you get the idea. Ubuntu and Linux in general relies on the idea that whatever has open specs and documentation that can be freely shared and implemented without patent/legal constraints will be - if there is demand for it. | 19:13 |
| pleia2 | Question - possible suggest notebook will support best for ubuntu ? | 19:13 |
| MagicFab | When hardware manufacturers don't make their specs open & legal to implement, that's when you're most likely to find compatibility problems. Nowadays most situations when this happens are known and manufacturers that support Linux (or not) are not difficult to spot. | 19:13 |
| MagicFab | pleia2, I will get to that very shortly :) | 19:14 |
| pleia2 | < LuizAquino> Question - Does Ubuntu comes with, by default, some GUI tool to know our hardware? | 19:14 |
| MagicFab | LuizAquino, yes it's called the LiveCD. I'll get to that at the very end :) It's the secret weapon to test BEFORE you buy. | 19:14 |
| MagicFab | Most importantly, manufacturers historically target Windows or Mac depending on what will be more profitable to them. Remember those are *business relationships* which means even if there may not be technical obstacles to make their devices compatible with Linux, the economic incentive may just not be there. | 19:14 |
| MagicFab | or economic * capability *. | 19:15 |
| MagicFab | Nevermind the offer to do this for free (thanks for the reminder andresmujica): | 19:15 |
| MagicFab | http://www.linuxdriverproject.org/foswiki/bin/view | 19:15 |
| MagicFab | Some companies just can't afford (in every sense of the term) to do so. | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | < somnoliento> QUESTION What role (if any) should Canonical have in "bugging" hardware makers for support? | 19:16 |
| MagicFab | Can they afford not to support Ubuntu ? *THAT* is why it's important you *always* let a manufacturer know you are using Ubuntu (or just "Linux") with their devices. Every email/call/public post counts. | 19:16 |
| MagicFab | somnoliento, honestly Canonical is only an enabler. The community votes with their money. The manufacturers respond or not. The nice thing right now is we can at least say there is *some* business to get from +10 million users... | 19:18 |
| MagicFab | And by *only* I mean getting companies like Dell to ship pre-installed :) That's one area of focus :D | 19:18 |
| MagicFab | So I'll start with that notion. --> "DO your research, vote with your money" | 19:19 |
| MagicFab | What hardware is guaranteed to work with Ubuntu ? ? | 19:19 |
| MagicFab | Right now Canonical offers *systems* certification (NOT component-only). | 19:19 |
| MagicFab | This means you can easily check if a server, desktop or laptop is certified or not. Components, are a bit trickier. | 19:20 |
| MagicFab | So your first stop, and this answers the previous netbook recommendation question, should be: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/ | 19:20 |
| MagicFab | Knowing your official docs may help tremendously when looking at components + systems recommendations... | 19:20 |
| MagicFab | For example | 19:21 |
| MagicFab | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport | 19:21 |
| MagicFab | and | 19:21 |
| MagicFab | if you come from Windows... | 19:21 |
| MagicFab | https://help.ubuntu.com/9.10/switching/preparing-hardware.html | 19:21 |
| MagicFab | A loooot more resources exist. But those are what I'd call "official" as far as *Ubuntu* is concerned. Sure, most things that work in "any linux" will work in Ubuntu. | 19:22 |
| MagicFab | So other sites help there | 19:22 |
| MagicFab | http://linuxpreloaded.com/ | 19:22 |
| MagicFab | is one of them. | 19:22 |
| MagicFab | So who can you trust ? | 19:22 |
| MagicFab | Public accounts of "this works" are incredibly useful. For example look at this one: | 19:22 |
| MagicFab | http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2009/12/20/asus-eeetop-2002-and-ubuntu/ | 19:22 |
| MagicFab | This is an important part of the search & buy process - just like any other goods you'd buy! So many times i hear someone saying they bought this expensive printer... without even checking first! | 19:24 |
| MagicFab | Relying on public accounts of "this works" is crucial in that respect. But it's not enough- make sure they don't date back 3 years :D | 19:24 |
| MagicFab | Which brings me to another important part of that process: Relying on official sources: Ubuntu info vs. Manufacturer's info ("Linux") | 19:24 |
| MagicFab | I mentioned before ** contact your manufacturer, ask about Ubuntu/Linux support ** | 19:25 |
| MagicFab | You'd be surprised how many have unofficial support (or don't know about it)! | 19:25 |
| MagicFab | Here's a test - call Canon... They may not know about it but they have this nice resource: | 19:26 |
| MagicFab | http://www.canon-europe.com/Support/software/linux/ | 19:26 |
| MagicFab | Unfortunately it's not free software. And it's not trivial to install. At least not "the Ubuntu way" - so what to do ? | 19:26 |
| MagicFab | Vote with your money. | 19:26 |
| MagicFab | This means, know your manufacturer. | 19:26 |
| MagicFab | Some are recognized for strong support and easy access to bugtrackers, docs, engineers (some even send their peoiple to the Ubuntu Dev Summit!) | 19:27 |
| MagicFab | Dell, HP (for printers), Intel are some of them. | 19:27 |
| MagicFab | Atheros too. | 19:27 |
| MagicFab | Some are not, but they use standard components... | 19:27 |
| MagicFab | from Intel, Atheros... :) You get the idea. | 19:28 |
| MagicFab | Some other are really AGAINST supporting Linux (as per their own word). | 19:28 |
| MagicFab | Logitech, for example is one of them. | 19:28 |
| MagicFab | Some others are in another area: they'll support Linux but won't make it easy/legal to check their specs and work publically | 19:29 |
| MagicFab | Nvidia, VIA... are some of them. Broadcomm too. | 19:29 |
| pleia2 | < davbran> QUESTION - Can we expect to see Linux support stickers in the future, similar to those we see for other OSes? | 19:29 |
| MagicFab | In such cases sometimes a business arrangement may make things work - in other not. Bottom line if you buy a desktop with VIa graphics, broadcomm and a Lexmark printer... don't wonder why it requires major work. | 19:30 |
| MagicFab | davbran, we're already seing Linux among specs | 19:30 |
| MagicFab | for example http://www.buy.com/prod/sandisk-8gb-cruzer-gator-usb-flash-drive-black-sandisk-8gb-cruzer/q/loc/101/206867852.html | 19:31 |
| MagicFab | stickers on systems ? I don't know, that only a tiny part of what I'd check | 19:31 |
| MagicFab | Samsung for example and Brother advertize "we support LInux". The fact is they provide binary only drivers that hardly are "plug n play". Why bother ? | 19:32 |
| MagicFab | For example look at this bug: | 19:33 |
| MagicFab | https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/foomatic-db/+bug/258058 | 19:33 |
| MagicFab | Do you see anyone from Brother there ? | 19:33 |
| MagicFab | Compare that to this: | 19:33 |
| MagicFab | https://edge.launchpad.net/hplip | 19:33 |
| pleia2 | < davbran> QUESTION - Follow Up, I didn't mean system so much. Some of us are more tech saavy than others and research. Some look for the sticker on component packaging. | 19:33 |
| MagicFab | So in essence, many vendors already have a strong (or no) reputation and an excellent (or weak) support track for Linux/Ubuntu. Ask about that. I only named a few. | 19:34 |
| MagicFab | I'll repeat this again: the only way to change that is to let them know you want(ed) to use heir product on Ubuntu, but it's not possible. | 19:34 |
| Pendulum | < lielf> QUESTION: How do I know the driver for linux supports 64 bit? | 19:35 |
| MagicFab | lielf you ASK the manufacturer! See ? This is what I was saying. We are programmed to rely only on the community. THat is just wrong. | 19:35 |
| MagicFab | :) I am not complaining... but we need to be better at this and include the manufacturers in the discussion. | 19:36 |
| MagicFab | lielf the technical answer to your question depends - but iun my experience ALL open source drivers support 64 bit unless some very specific would block them from doing so. | 19:37 |
| MagicFab | At the opposite side, something with a binary only driver needs to have a 64-bit build provided by... the manufacturer. So you need to ask them anyways. | 19:38 |
| MagicFab | Sharing success & defeat is my last point in this "Search & vot w/money" section | 19:38 |
| Pendulum | < ehlim> QuestionL will ubuntu have own - inhouse hardware in the future, just like other cybergiant like brand A , and brand G you know what i mean | 19:39 |
| MagicFab | ONce you've had success (or have been defeated) trying to get your hardwrae to work... report that! | 19:39 |
| MagicFab | It may be as long & detailed as Jorge's post which I cited before: | 19:39 |
| MagicFab | http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2009/12/20/asus-eeetop-2002-and-ubuntu/ | 19:39 |
| MagicFab | or as short as this microblogging post: | 19:40 |
| MagicFab | http://identi.ca/notice/16246275 | 19:40 |
| Pendulum | < oskude> QUESTION - but there is a way to run 32bit drivers in 64bit system ? or does this only work for "user space" applications ? | 19:40 |
| MagicFab | Remember, Google and other search engines rely on this information being posted somewhere public! So share as much as you can | 19:40 |
| MagicFab | Pendulum, there may be a way. But this is not about troubleshooting. This is about choosing the hardware so you don't end up asking yourself that type of question. | 19:41 |
| MagicFab | Pendulum, honestly I answer much more questions about 32 bit software <-> 64 bit OS. I can't remember (in 3 years of full time support) having a customer asking about 32 bit drivers in 64 bit Ubuntu. | 19:43 |
| MagicFab | oskude (sorry I had the wrong nick) if you have a specific example maybe I can tackle it, I am almost done (~10min) | 19:44 |
| MagicFab | Now I'll explain my "Five essential rules you can't break when testing / shopping for hardware" | 19:45 |
| MagicFab | - Number one, try not to break your system (if you're testing existing hardware). | 19:45 |
| _marx_ | 15 minutes | 19:46 |
| MagicFab | Don't blindly follow "compile this, sudo that, run this" instructions you find on the web. DOuble check if there isn't a package already, rely on the few links I posted before | 19:46 |
| MagicFab | Ask about others "How can I check if my / XYZ scanner works in Ubuntu" ? Your local team mailing list /channel may know this simple answer. | 19:46 |
| MagicFab | Use another hard disk, a new partition, or bring your system to the vendor (easy with laptops, not so with servers) - limit physicial "bare-metal " installs | 19:47 |
| MagicFab | Takes notes! And backup your config files when playing with them. Perhaps even ask the poster of such solutions how to revert them ? | 19:48 |
| MagicFab | Check the dates - as i said before, a 3yr old blog post will probably do more damage than good :) | 19:48 |
| MagicFab | This brings me to another point: Search effectively: bugs, forums, blogs | 19:49 |
| MagicFab | Yes, I'll repeat this, check that the HowTo you're following matches your UBuntu version! Obvious, but often disregarded. | 19:49 |
| _marx_ | 10 minutes | 19:50 |
| MagicFab | Check their author. Do they regularly blog about solutions ? If this is a server issue... and this person is part of the server team... would you trust them more ? :) | 19:50 |
| MagicFab | _marx_, roger that | 19:50 |
| MagicFab | - Getting professional vs. community help | 19:50 |
| MagicFab | In my position as a senior support analyst and technical trainer... I am amazed many people have absolutely no idea they can pay for support & help | 19:51 |
| MagicFab | - Ask your local team and fellow users if there's a consultant or a friendly shop that would accept to help professionally | 19:51 |
| MagicFab | - If your business (or your reputation :) depend on it, consider Canonical support. At plans starting at ~U$60/year for unlimited support, it's worth considering in some cases. | 19:53 |
| MagicFab | - When you get community help, set your expectations right: be courteous and pacient, after all many volunteers do that in ther spare time. | 19:53 |
| MagicFab | Last but not least.. | 19:53 |
| MagicFab | the SECRET WEAPON!!!! | 19:53 |
| MagicFab | It's called the LiveCD. I got a question earlier that asked if we had " some GUI tool to know our hardware?" | 19:54 |
| MagicFab | The Ubuntu LiveCD is very easy to carry around. In fact I don't carry a LIve CD anymore but a business card USB bootable Ubuntu | 19:54 |
| Pendulum | < IdleOne> MagicFab: just the other day in #ubuntu we had a user complaining about the "paid support" he says he was told that they would not help him | 19:54 |
| Pendulum | because the application he wanted help with was not supported. | 19:55 |
| MagicFab | http://config.fsf.org/membercard/wiki?name=fsf-membercard | 19:55 |
| MagicFab | IdleOne, I'd welcome that person to call me directly. Yes, we get many people calling us directly expecting free support. We can't possible scale that :) | 19:56 |
| MagicFab | IdleOne, yes, would you call Microsoft to get Linux support ? Amazingly, we get those calls too. | 19:56 |
| MagicFab | Here's the FSF bootable card: | 19:56 |
| MagicFab | http://config.fsf.org/membercard/wiki?name=fsf-membercard | 19:56 |
| MagicFab | Carrying a USB stick with Ubuntu to your local shop and asking nicely to test the system/ component you want to buy is often easy. | 19:57 |
| MagicFab | Most computer techs I 've asked this to accept gladly (FutureSHop, Best Buy, etc) | 19:57 |
| MagicFab | and they understand it's best to let someone test than to deal with a return | 19:57 |
| MagicFab | Oh yes, ALWAYS shop in places wher eyou can easily return stuff. I realize this is easy mostly only in NorthAmerica... but it's a good tool too. | 19:58 |
| Pendulum | < IdleOne> QUESTION: I guess what I wanted to know is if the Canonical support covers all software available in the repositories? | 19:58 |
| MagicFab | IdleOne, no we don't. Call me and I'll elaborate. | 19:58 |
| MagicFab | So thanks everyon for your time and patience, I hope at least some of what I shared is useful :) | 19:59 |
| Pendulum | < jazz__> QUESTION: if itll work on a live cd or a usbflash drive, it should work? | 19:59 |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Partitioning 101 ~~ Presented by duanedesign || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| MagicFab | My direct phone number is at https://edge.launchpad.net/~magicfab - honestly I'll answer all questions about this if anyone want to call (weekdays) :) | 19:59 |
| MagicFab | Cheers!! | 19:59 |
| MagicFab | jazz_, correct, in fact we often do taht as part of troubelshooting | 20:00 |
| cjohnston | Thank you MagicFab! | 20:00 |
| cjohnston | Up next we have duanedesign.. | 20:00 |
| MagicFab | Forgot to mention I am off (holiday) next Mo, Tu, so Wed onwards is best | 20:00 |
| * MagicFab waves | 20:00 | |
| cjohnston | duanedesign is a last minute fill in due to someone else not feeling well, so I will let him introduce himself. | 20:01 |
| cjohnston | duanedesign it's all you. :-) | 20:01 |
| duanedesign | thank you cjohnston | 20:01 |
| cjohnston | Also, duanedesign has built in time for questions, so please wait to ask your questions until he asks for them | 20:01 |
| duanedesign | I am contact for the OKlahoma loCo. Proud member of the Ubuntu Beginners team. From my perch on the BT, as we call it, I participate in many parts of the community | 20:02 |
| duanedesign | from Bug Triage to Launchpad Answers, wiki work, ect | 20:03 |
| duanedesign | I am here today to talk to you guys about Partitioning | 20:03 |
| duanedesign | There are three types of partitions Primary, Extended, and Logical | 20:04 |
| duanedesign | The original partitioning scheme for PC hard disks allowed only four partitions, thus you are allowed up to 4 primary partitions. Linux numbers primary partitions 1-4. | 20:04 |
| duanedesign | You can only create 4 Primary Partitions on a single physical hard drive | 20:04 |
| duanedesign | To overcome this limitation, extended partitions are used. An Extended partition creates a space where you can have more partitions beyond the 4 Primary Partitions. Partitions made within the Extended Partition are called Logical Partitions | 20:04 |
| duanedesign | Only one extended partition may be created on a hard drive. This Extended Partition will occupy one of the four Primary Partition slots. Any number of Logical partitions may be created within an Extended partition, and they may be formatted with any filesystem. | 20:05 |
| duanedesign | the usual suspects when it comes to filesystems are NTFS for Windows and ext4 for Ubuntu | 20:06 |
| duanedesign | i am going walk you through creating some partitions | 20:07 |
| duanedesign | you can visit this page for screenshots that might help illustrate some of the points made | 20:08 |
| duanedesign | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/Partitioning | 20:08 |
| duanedesign | most, and this is an assumption on my part, people come to Ubuntu with a Windows install | 20:09 |
| duanedesign | However i will start with a blank Hard Drive, making that Windows partition | 20:09 |
| duanedesign | just to cover all the bases :) | 20:10 |
| duanedesign | your partition tool from the Live Cd is accessed System/Administration/Partition Editor. In this first scenario the drive is empty, so you will be greeted with a window that looks like this Fig.A | 20:11 |
| duanedesign | NOTE: FigA corresponds to the screenshots on the link i posted | 20:11 |
| duanedesign | you will Select the partition you wish to reformat by right clicking either on the graphical display or on the line below it that corresponds to the partition. If the partition is mounted (you will know because all your options except 'Unmount' will be greyed out), you must unmount it first Click on the "Unmount" option in the menu. | 20:12 |
| duanedesign | Click the "New" option in the menu. And you will be greeted with Fig.B | 20:13 |
| duanedesign | Position your cursor over the "Filesystem" Menu. Select "NTFS" from the list. Notice the "Create As" line above the file types. This is where we select the type of parition we are creating. We will let this stay as Primary. | 20:13 |
| duanedesign | NTFS remember because we are creating the windows partition first | 20:14 |
| duanedesign | your Windows install will always be on a primary partition so we will leave it primary in this scenario | 20:15 |
| duanedesign | Click the "Apply" button and, once the creation process is complete the partition is created Fig.C | 20:15 |
| duanedesign | you will notice that the unallocated entry is now NTFS | 20:16 |
| duanedesign | this is what most people with a Windows computer will start with | 20:16 |
| duanedesign | now you must decide if you want to dual boot and keep your windows install or remove it and go all the way Ubuntu | 20:17 |
| duanedesign | first i will walk you through resizing the windows partition to make room for Ubuntu | 20:18 |
| duanedesign | if you have XP this will be a bit easier thatn if you have Vista/Win7 | 20:19 |
| duanedesign | If using Windows XP you can resize the partition within Ubuntu | 20:20 |
| duanedesign | So to to resize | 20:20 |
| duanedesign | Select the partition you wish to reformat by right clicking either on the graphical display or on the line below it that corresponds to the partition that you wish to resize. If the partition is mounted, you must unmount it first. Click on the "Unmount" option in the menu. | 20:21 |
| duanedesign | i should of prefaced all this with the very important statement. Always back up data if oyu have any on a computer you are doing any partitioning | 20:21 |
| duanedesign | Once you are sure the partition is unmounted, right click on the partition you wish to resize and select "Resize/Move" from the menu Fig.E | 20:22 |
| duanedesign | you have 2 options when it comes to resizing | 20:22 |
| duanedesign | Dragging and sliding. Position the cursor over the arrow on either side of the graphical bar, left click and hold, then drag the arrow; away from the edge for shrinking or towards the edge (into the free space, if available) to expand it. | 20:23 |
| duanedesign | this can be seen in Fig.E | 20:23 |
| duanedesign | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/Partitioning | 20:23 |
| duanedesign | at this link (for anyone just joining) | 20:23 |
| duanedesign | Changing the "New Size" or the "Free Space Preceeding/Following" sizes. | 20:23 |
| duanedesign | This is done either by using the up/down arrows to the right of the "New Size" window, or by directly editing the size itself in that Window. | 20:24 |
| duanedesign | After changing the size of the partition, just click the "Resize/Move" button, and the changes will be recorded and visible in a window at the bottom. When you are sure that you have resized it as you desire, you click the "Apply" button at the top and the partition will be resized. Fig.D | 20:24 |
| duanedesign | now you have a nice area for an Ubuntu install | 20:25 |
| duanedesign | as seen in Fig.D | 20:25 |
| duanedesign | Now if you are coming from Vista or Windows 7 it is recommended that you do this resizing in Windows | 20:26 |
| duanedesign | The Windows partition must be resized from within Windows Vista and Windows 7 using the shrink/resize option: | 20:27 |
| duanedesign | Administrative Tools --> Disk Management tool -> Shrink Volume | 20:27 |
| duanedesign | sounds easy enough right | 20:28 |
| duanedesign | well almost | 20:28 |
| duanedesign | Unlike Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7 does not allow you to move the MFT (Master File Table) that controls the NTFS file structure. Inexplicably, Microsoft locates this near the middle (or end) of the partition, somewhat limiting the ability to resize (shrink) the partition completely. Although you will be able to gain some hard drive space from the "Shrink Volume" command, it will be limited | 20:28 |
| duanedesign | Ive never had a problem with this. However someone who seemed to know what they were talking about filled me in on this :) | 20:30 |
| duanedesign | On the link i have posted with the screenshots there will be links you can use to get more detailed info | 20:30 |
| duanedesign | including this topic. However i will walk you through the steps to | 20:31 |
| duanedesign | get the maximum shrinkage out of your Vista Win7 partition | 20:31 |
| duanedesign | 1. Run the Disk Cleanup Wizard, making sure to remove the hibernation file and all restore points. | 20:32 |
| duanedesign | now remember we are in Windows right now | 20:33 |
| duanedesign | 2. Disable System Restore | 20:33 |
| duanedesign | 3. Disable the pagefile ( Open up System in Control Panel, then Advanced System Settings \ Advanced \ Performance \ Advanced \ Change \ No Paging File. | 20:33 |
| duanedesign | 4. In the same Advanced Settings, go to Startup and Recovery \ Settings and then change the Write debugging information drop-down to ?None? to disable the kernel memory dump. | 20:33 |
| duanedesign | 5. Disable Hibernation mode in your power options \ advanced power options screen. | 20:33 |
| duanedesign | 6. Reboot the machine, and then delete your c:\pagefile.sys file, | 20:33 |
| duanedesign | After resizing the Windows Partition Reboot Windows a couple of times. This allows the Windows system to automatically rescan the newly-resized partition (using chkdsk in earlier versions or a similar utility in later versions) and write changes to its own bootloader configuration files. If you start mucking around with other partitions before Windows has a chance to reset itself, the Windows bootloader will not be able to read | 20:34 |
| duanedesign | considering all this, remember you have the option of backing up your data and formatting the whole drive and beginning from a clean slate | 20:35 |
| duanedesign | that is your decision to make. You should of already backed up all your data ;) | 20:36 |
| duanedesign | ok | 20:36 |
| duanedesign | now we have resized our windows partition | 20:36 |
| duanedesign | Fig.D | 20:36 |
| duanedesign | you can reference the figur numbers at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/Partitioning | 20:37 |
| duanedesign | for those just getting here :) | 20:37 |
| duanedesign | as we talked about you are limited to 4 primary partitions | 20:37 |
| duanedesign | well we would quickly reach that with our uBUNTU install | 20:38 |
| duanedesign | so we are going to create an Extended Partition | 20:38 |
| duanedesign | Creating an Extended Partition is done the same way as creating a Primary partition. Remember the "Primary" type in the menu, this time you will select "Extended" | 20:38 |
| duanedesign | so just as we created the Primary partition for windows in the first step | 20:39 |
| duanedesign | When Extended is selected, all the file types in the menu below will be greyed out. There is no file type associated with an Extended partition. An Extended Partition is basically a container | 20:39 |
| duanedesign | so if you look at Fig.B those filetype options willo not be available | 20:40 |
| duanedesign | an extended partition is a container | 20:40 |
| duanedesign | for ourAn Extended Partition is basically a container for any number of Logical partitions, which can be of any file system format. | 20:40 |
| duanedesign | So we are booted up in our LiveCD after shrinking our Windows partition. | 20:41 |
| duanedesign | Or this is where you would pick up if you are doing a straight Ubuntu install | 20:41 |
| duanedesign | Select the unallocated partition you wish to reformat by right clicking either on the graphical display or on the line below it that corresponds to the partition. | 20:42 |
| duanedesign | Click the "New" option in the menu. | 20:42 |
| duanedesign | Position your cursor over the "Create As" Menu. Select "Extended Partition" from the list. | 20:42 |
| duanedesign | you will want to make this extended partition the rest of the drive | 20:43 |
| duanedesign | all the partitions we are going to create for Ubuntu will go inside it. | 20:44 |
| duanedesign | after you create the Extended partition you will end up with an unallocated space in the Extended partition See Fig.G | 20:45 |
| duanedesign | notice its the same size as our Extended Partition | 20:46 |
| duanedesign | now we need to fill it with our Logical Partitions | 20:46 |
| duanedesign | For an Ubuntu install I will recommend the following partition scheme | 20:47 |
| duanedesign | = root min size 5 GB (Yes, I know you can go smaller if needed), 15-20 Gb may be better if you have the HD space. | 20:48 |
| duanedesign | actually 20 is a bit overkill | 20:48 |
| duanedesign | Swap X 1.5 RAM at least the size of RAM for Suspend to Disk | 20:48 |
| duanedesign | some people will say 2X. thst is too much | 20:49 |
| duanedesign | at least the size of RAM | 20:49 |
| duanedesign | Rest for /home | 20:49 |
| duanedesign | ok so the short of it is. the root partition contains Linux and your apps. The home drive is you personal files. And swap is an area the computer uses like RAM on your Hard Drive | 20:50 |
| duanedesign | you will want an extra /home partition | 20:50 |
| duanedesign | this makes it easy to reinstall if something goes wrong | 20:50 |
| _marx_ | QUESTION No partition for /root? | 20:51 |
| duanedesign | you will preserve all your settings and pictures of your cats | 20:51 |
| duanedesign | /root partition is usually between 10-15GB | 20:52 |
| duanedesign | / = root min size 5 GB (Yes, I know you can go smaller if needed), 15-20 Gb may be better if you have the HD space. | 20:52 |
| duanedesign | you will notice root is mentioned as / | 20:52 |
| duanedesign | that is how you will set the mount point | 20:52 |
| duanedesign | R-click the unallocated space in your Extended partition and get to work :) | 20:53 |
| duanedesign | for example | 20:53 |
| duanedesign | to reiterate, because this is important and a lot of questions get asked | 20:54 |
| duanedesign | 10 / = root | 20:54 |
| duanedesign | RAM = swap | 20:54 |
| duanedesign | rest /home | 20:54 |
| duanedesign | you will specify this under mount point | 20:54 |
| duanedesign | you will create these Partitions just like the others. | 20:55 |
| duanedesign | Specifying Ext.4 for the filesystem | 20:55 |
| duanedesign | and Logical for the type | 20:55 |
| duanedesign | i am running out of time | 20:56 |
| duanedesign | so i will leave a few minutes for questions | 20:56 |
| duanedesign | fire away in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 20:56 |
| duanedesign | here is the link to the wiki page for this session. I will have links to all the resources i used | 20:57 |
| duanedesign | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/Partitioning | 20:57 |
| duanedesign | Guys, do I still have to make the swap space the same size of the RAM if I'm on the 64 bit system? I've got 6GB of Ram, and that would be a lot! | 20:57 |
| duanedesign | Question^^ | 20:58 |
| duanedesign | if you ever desire to Suspend to disk the answer is yes | 20:58 |
| duanedesign | otherwise that is a bit much | 20:58 |
| duanedesign | I have heard this rule before RAM > 1 Gb swap = 2 Gb | 20:59 |
| duanedesign | AmrH: so that might be a good guide | 20:59 |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Ubuntu Equivalent Programs ~~ Presented by cprofitt || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| duanedesign | swap is one of those topics that is debated at length in the community | 21:00 |
| duanedesign | thank you everyone | 21:00 |
| cjohnston | Thanks duanedesign ! | 21:00 |
| cjohnston | cprofitt is up next | 21:00 |
| cjohnston | cprofitt is a Systems Administrator who works with Windows and OS X at this day job, but is a passionate advocate for FOSS and Ubuntu. | 21:01 |
| cjohnston | He is an Ubuntu member, leader of the Linux User Group of Rochester, leader of the NY State Ubuntu LoCo, council member of the Ubuntu Beginners Team, | 21:01 |
| cjohnston | council member of the Ubuntu Community Learning Project and leader of the Ubuntu Beginners Team Security Focus Group. | 21:01 |
| cprofitt | Welcome everyone. I am here to discuss applications that can replace applications commonly used on OS X or Windows. | 21:01 |
| cprofitt | The intended audience for this session is people who have recently switched to Ubuntu (and Linux) or those debating making the switch. | 21:01 |
| cprofitt | The best part about many of the applications I am going to cover today is that they are cross-platform. By that, I mean that they can be run on Ubuntu, OS X or Windows. For those that are debating making the switch this will allow you to slowly make a transistion. | 21:02 |
| cprofitt | how many of you here today have just made the switch to Ubuntu? | 21:02 |
| cprofitt | How many ofyou are considering the switch... or still have Windows because you have some application you have not found an alternate for? | 21:03 |
| cprofitt | So first I would want to cover what I consider the 'basic' productivity applications. I admit that these applications are my opinion. | 21:03 |
| cprofitt | - Word Processor: Typically Microsoft Office on both OS X and Windows though iWork is a productivity suite. | 21:03 |
| cprofitt | - Image editor (bitmap): This is usually Photoshop or a derivitive, like Photoshop express. Corel Photopaint is an option as well. | 21:03 |
| cprofitt | - Media Player: Quicktime Player or Media Player would be the two obvious choices, but you also have to factor in iTunes as a media organizer (it uses Quicktime to play media files). | 21:04 |
| cprofitt | - Web Browser: The default for OS X is Safari and the default for Windows is Internet Explorer. Though in this space we have to acknowledge that Firefox is used on numerous machines of both OSes. | 21:04 |
| cprofitt | - File Browser: Though both OS X and Windows have so entagled their file browsers that most people do not think of them as applications they are, indeed, applications. OS X uses Finder and Windows uses Windows Explorer. | 21:04 |
| cprofitt | those are the 'core' applications to me | 21:04 |
| cprofitt | I will go over some applications to replace those as well as some other applications. | 21:04 |
| cprofitt | The first application I am going to cover is actually an application suite. OpenOffice contains Writer, Calc, Impress and Base. The applications are substitutes for Word, Excel, Power Point and Access. I will admit that the GUI (Graphic User Interface) is not as 'pretty' as Microsoft Office, but the functionality is there to meet the needs of most users. Open Office is able to open Office Documents so the transition can be a smooth one | 21:04 |
| cprofitt | NATO with its 26 members (Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, the UK, and the USA) uses ODF as a mandatory standard for all members. | 21:05 |
| cprofitt | OpenDocument has been officially approved by national standards bodies of Brazil, Croatia, Ecuador, Hungary, Italy, Malaysia, South Korea, South Africa and Sweden. | 21:05 |
| cprofitt | That is 35 countries that have approved the ODF standard. | 21:05 |
| cprofitt | While you may not think that is a great many... | 21:05 |
| cprofitt | Only ten countries have approved their Office Open XML standard. | 21:05 |
| cprofitt | Using OpenOffice is actually a much better choice if you are concerned about standards | 21:06 |
| cprofitt | OpenOffice is cross-platform | 21:06 |
| cprofitt | OpenOffice is cross-platform | 21:06 |
| cprofitt | what do I mean by 'cross-platform' | 21:06 |
| cprofitt | I mean that you can use these applications on OS X and Windows | 21:07 |
| cprofitt | cross-platform applications are good for several reasons | 21:07 |
| cprofitt | but I find that they assist most with making the transition and being able to work with others after the transition | 21:07 |
| cprofitt | the fact that your OS X or Windows using friends can use these applications and exchange documents with you is important | 21:08 |
| cprofitt | the fact that you can use these applications and become comfortable with them prior to switching is also a key to being comfortable | 21:08 |
| cprofitt | do we have any questions about Open Office? | 21:08 |
| cprofitt | I want to take this time to also let you know that you can ask questions on this topic after the live session in the Ubuntu Forums | 21:09 |
| cprofitt | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8712145 | 21:09 |
| cprofitt | Question: Can open office accept all of the changes in a Word(tm) document? | 21:10 |
| cprofitt | Yes, you can make changes to a MS Word document and either save it as in OpenDocument format or back to the original file | 21:10 |
| cprofitt | Question: Does the word processor have the ability to "track" changes to the document? | 21:11 |
| cprofitt | I am not sure if it can track changes or not. If you post that question to the forum thread I will get an answer for you. | 21:11 |
| Pendulum | < tcpip4000> Question: how versioning works in OOO? | 21:12 |
| cprofitt | To be honest I do not do that at all with my documents | 21:12 |
| cprofitt | tcpip4000: I am not sure on the versioning either. If you can post that question to the forum thread I can look that information up and get an answer for you as well. | 21:12 |
| cprofitt | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8712145 | 21:12 |
| Pendulum | < dm-madmod> QUESTION: Can OpenOffice Base use a mySQL database? | 21:13 |
| cprofitt | Pendulum: I have not tried that. but my understanding is yes | 21:14 |
| cprofitt | http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Connect_MySQL_and_Base | 21:14 |
| cprofitt | That is the wiki article I read on the subject | 21:14 |
| cprofitt | but I have not thrown up a MySQL DB yet to test it. | 21:14 |
| Pendulum | < userdays6_> Is printing envelopes and mail merge feature supported in OOO? | 21:14 |
| cprofitt | It is. I have a wiki link but it is to OO 2 | 21:15 |
| cprofitt | http://openoffice.blogs.com/openoffice/2006/07/mail_merge_labe.html | 21:15 |
| cprofitt | here is another - http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Creating_Mail_Merge_Documents_From_Text/CSV_or_Spreadsheets | 21:16 |
| cprofitt | any more questions on OO? | 21:16 |
| cprofitt | ok... next item | 21:17 |
| cprofitt | Many of us use our computers to store, catalog and modify our photographic memories. For managing photos we have F-Spot (which is a play on the phrase f-stop that is used in photography). F-Spot will import and catalog your images for you. I have not, as of yet, use F-Spot because I like to catalog my images by using my file system. For editing bitmap images (and creating them) you can use the GIMP. The GIMP is not a clone of Photoshop | 21:17 |
| cprofitt | For some sample work done in GIMP - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8712145 | 21:17 |
| cprofitt | There I have included a Blue Planet -- made from scratch (dunno why I enjoy making those, but I do). There are also two .xcf files that were potential logos that I created for my local lug. If you have questions on those specific images please ask them in the forum thread. There is also a .png of the final logo, which was changed due to the layout of the web page for Lugor. | 21:18 |
| cprofitt | The GIMP is cross-platform | 21:18 |
| cprofitt | Do we have any questions about The GIMP? | 21:18 |
| Pendulum | You're good to go on :) | 21:18 |
| cprofitt | k | 21:19 |
| cprofitt | Many people need to design images that 'scale' with the need for different sizes. The best type of images for this are 'vector' images. In the Windows and OS X world that would usually require an investment of several hundred dollars for Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw. To accomplish this type of image editing one can use Inkscape in Ubuntu. Inkscape is a powerful editor, but due to my needs focusing on bitmap images I do not have exam | 21:19 |
| cprofitt | One place to look at some amazing samples of vector images, as well as creative commons work for you to use, is Open Clipart Library - http://openclipart.org/ | 21:19 |
| cprofitt | Inkscape is cross-platform | 21:19 |
| cprofitt | so those two applications take care of most of our image editing needs -- bitmap and vector | 21:19 |
| cprofitt | any questions on Inkscape? | 21:20 |
| Pendulum | < userdays6_> yes, i tried editing like in Ms paint, but some basic funtions were not there. Is it a substitute of Ms paint? | 21:20 |
| cprofitt | userdays6_: No, GIMP is more ppwerful than MS Paint | 21:20 |
| cprofitt | it is closer to Photoshop or Corel PhotoPaint | 21:20 |
| Pendulum | < bullgard> QUESTION What do you mean by "cross-platform" precisely? | 21:20 |
| cprofitt | the ability to add-on brushes and scripts make it much more powerful | 21:20 |
| cprofitt | cross-platform means it can run on OS X and Windows | 21:21 |
| cprofitt | in sames cases even other OSes like OS/2 | 21:21 |
| Pendulum | < Pernig> QUESTION there was a package called gimpshop which made GIMP mimmick functionality of photoshop but it doesn't seem to work with the latest version. Is there anything similar out there? | 21:21 |
| cprofitt | I find that important when switchign because you can slowly make the transition and your peers can use the applications as well -- even if they do not transition to Linux | 21:21 |
| cprofitt | Pernig: I have not heard of a similar package to Gimpshop | 21:22 |
| cprofitt | You may want to file a bug or ask that question on the forum thread | 21:22 |
| cprofitt | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8712145 | 21:22 |
| Pendulum | < RPG_Master_> Question - When is GIMP going to get 16 bit support? | 21:22 |
| cprofitt | perhaps we can get a work around or alternative for you from the community | 21:22 |
| cprofitt | I was unaware they do not support 16bit, and do not know when they might add it... that would be a question for one of the developers | 21:23 |
| cprofitt | http://www.gimp.org/ | 21:23 |
| Pendulum | < bullgard> QUESTION Iconsider Inkscape great. Where is it inferior to competing Ubuntu programs? | 21:23 |
| cprofitt | I am not following that question bullgard -- do you mean other programs in Ubuntu or programs like Illustrator? | 21:24 |
| cprofitt | Ok... in Ubuntu... | 21:25 |
| cprofitt | I am not aware of any other programs that can compete with Inkscape... for me it is the best of breed on Ubuntu | 21:26 |
| cprofitt | I am going to move on to the next program | 21:26 |
| Pendulum | < Pernig> QUESTION is therer cmyk colour support in GIMP? | 21:26 |
| cprofitt | Pernig: only with a plugin -- but I have heard they may be working on that | 21:26 |
| cprofitt | CMYK will only be important if you plan on printing your work though | 21:27 |
| cprofitt | please remember that if I do not get to your questions you can ask them on the forums | 21:27 |
| cprofitt | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8712145 | 21:27 |
| cprofitt | Another common program used by a typical computer user is Publisher. Publisher is mainly used to make cards, newsletters and other 'publication' type documents. In Ubuntu the program that fills this need is Scribus. http://www.scribus.net/ | 21:27 |
| cprofitt | I have not had a need to use this software as I do not make these types of documents, but this is an excellent program for LoCo teams that need to make adevertising material for their groups. You can find excellent example of this type of work on http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/ (Spread Ubuntu). | 21:27 |
| cprofitt | Scribus is cross-platform (even for OS/2) | 21:28 |
| cprofitt | Any questions on Scribus should be directed to the forums | 21:28 |
| cprofitt | I do not use the program, but I am sure the community will be glad to answer questions about it | 21:28 |
| cprofitt | Many of us like to watch movies or listen to music. Even more have portable music players and like to manage their players music with a program on their computer. The programs used outside of Ubuntu are Windows Media Player, Quicktime and iTunes. In Ubuntu we have Movie Player (Totem) and Rhythmbox. | 21:28 |
| cprofitt | I personally use Rhythmbox to manage my Sansa Fuze in MTP mode. | 21:28 |
| cprofitt | Do we have any questions about Rhythmbox or Totem? | 21:29 |
| cprofitt | I did not mention VLC player because it is not included in the base load of Ubuntu and there are applications that Ubuntu does include that cover that 'area' | 21:30 |
| cprofitt | VLC is an excellent program and is cross-platform | 21:30 |
| cprofitt | I used it while I was still using Windows | 21:30 |
| cprofitt | < patchwork_> Question- When I launch Rythymbox, it immediately docks in | 21:31 |
| cprofitt | my indicator applet without opening the window. I then | 21:31 |
| cprofitt | have to click the indicator to open the window. Is there | 21:31 |
| cprofitt | an easy way to make this one operation? | 21:31 |
| cprofitt | From my experience it opens in the last state I had it in | 21:31 |
| cprofitt | so if I exited directly from it being open it will open again. | 21:31 |
| cprofitt | the default for you 'clicking the close' x in the upper right is to minimize though | 21:31 |
| cprofitt | I am not aware of being able to change that behavior | 21:32 |
| cprofitt | I am going to move on to another area... | 21:33 |
| cprofitt | one that most people do not bother to think about... but that has a huge impact | 21:33 |
| cprofitt | One of the most basic programs included with an operating system is the file manager (or browser). In OS X that is the finder. In Windows that is Windows Explorer. In Ubuntu the default file manager is Nautilus. In KDE the default file manager is Dolphin. One of the great things about Linux is that you can change your file manager. For this session we will focus on Nautilus. | 21:33 |
| cprofitt | One of the things that Nautilus does very easily that the other OS file managers do not do is toggling hidden files. In nautilus all you have to do is hit cntl+h and it will toggle showing/not showing hidden files. | 21:33 |
| cprofitt | I can not tell you how upset I get each time I use OS X and can not see the hidden files by default | 21:33 |
| cprofitt | I usually just launch a terminal out of frustration | 21:34 |
| cprofitt | for those that do not know how to hide a file in a *nix variant | 21:34 |
| cprofitt | In *nix based OSes a hidden file (or folder) is hidden by placing a '.' in front of it. So to make test.txt hidden you would rename it to .test.txt | 21:34 |
| cprofitt | Questions on Nautilus? | 21:34 |
| cprofitt | Question: why doesn't rhythmbox come with dlna/upnp enable as default? | 21:35 |
| cprofitt | I am not sure... that would be another question for the developers | 21:35 |
| cprofitt | no questions on Nautilus? | 21:35 |
| Pendulum | < Jedemco> Question: Isn't Nautilus called "places" in Ubuntu? | 21:36 |
| cprofitt | < Jedemco> Question: Isn't Nautilus called "places" in Ubuntu? | 21:36 |
| cprofitt | No... places is a 'location' more than the program used to display it | 21:36 |
| cprofitt | Nautilus does open when you click one of the options under places | 21:36 |
| cprofitt | just like in Windows when you click on my computer it is actually windows explorer that opens | 21:36 |
| cprofitt | in OS X when you click on my hard drive it is finder that actually is the program | 21:37 |
| cprofitt | any other Q's on Nautilus? | 21:37 |
| Pendulum | < dm-madmod> QUESTION: When copying and pasting, the pasting sometimes doesn't work in Nautilus as there's no right-mouse paste option. Icons works, List doesn't. | 21:38 |
| cprofitt | I am not sure on that dm-madmod I get a paste option with the version of Nautilus that I use... | 21:38 |
| cprofitt | if, however, you are trying to copy something that you do not have rights to that may cause the option to be greyed out | 21:38 |
| Pendulum | QUESTION: what has gone wrong that i have to load all of my applets (nm-applet for example), i can't mount my windows partition without sudo, etc | 21:39 |
| cprofitt | but I have not tried that. | 21:39 |
| cprofitt | I am not sure when your applets have to be reloaded... | 21:39 |
| cprofitt | and to my knoweldge you only have to use sudo when you mount a hard disk with NTFS | 21:40 |
| cprofitt | if you have a memory stick (usb removable media) with NTFS formatting you will not be prompted | 21:40 |
| cprofitt | If you use alt+f2 and type in gksu nautilus you can launch nautilus in 'sudo' mode | 21:40 |
| cprofitt | this may help with some of the issues people have with copying files | 21:41 |
| cprofitt | any more Q's on nautilus | 21:41 |
| cprofitt | this is really an important area when making the migration to Linux | 21:41 |
| cprofitt | One of the other important areas is next | 21:41 |
| cprofitt | An application that most Windows and OS X users ignore is the basic text editor. For this reason the basic text editors in Windows and OS X tend to be a bit on the weak side. On Windows one would use notepad and on OS X it is just called 'text editor'. On Ubuntu you have the built-in gedit which is a powerful text editor. | 21:42 |
| cprofitt | gedit can use its high-light mode to change what kind of file is being viewed and present a color coded view of the text making it easier to read. | 21:42 |
| cprofitt | If you are going to be programming there is another graphical text editor that can be used in Ubuntu called SciTE. SciTE does a bit more than gedit in that is will auto-indent per the language specifications. | 21:42 |
| cprofitt | Two other options in Linux are non-graphical. For basic text editing one can use nano and for programming one can use vi(m). There is another option for programming, but it is more like an OS unto itself than a simple editor. It is called emacs. | 21:42 |
| cprofitt | SciTE is cross-platform | 21:42 |
| cprofitt | I will not go in to the greatness that is sed or awk in this session, but those looking to manipulate text should look at those as well | 21:42 |
| cprofitt | Any questions of basic text editors? | 21:43 |
| cprofitt | OK... as we do not apear to have any more questions on text editors I will move on | 21:44 |
| cprofitt | Some more exoteric applications that are used in the world of Windows and OS X are applications like Inspiration and Quick Books / Microsoft Money. | 21:44 |
| cprofitt | In Ubuntu you can use Freemind for mind mapping software. You can use GnuCash for managing your business. I do not have experience with either of these applications and if you want more information please check out the wiki entry for this session: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/UbuntuEquivalentPrograms and feel free to ask questions on the forum thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8712145 | 21:44 |
| cprofitt | This was meant to be a simple overview of some of the basic applications in Ubuntu. | 21:45 |
| cprofitt | There are cetainly many applications that I may have not covered. For those you can check out two sites to find recommendations. | 21:45 |
| cprofitt | Linux App Finder - http://linuxappfinder.com/ | 21:45 |
| cprofitt | OS Alt - http://www.osalt.com/ | 21:45 |
| cprofitt | < scunizi> There is also Vym for mindmapping | 21:45 |
| cprofitt | I would like to thank scunizi for mentioning this | 21:45 |
| cprofitt | I just read about the program today and it does look solid | 21:46 |
| cprofitt | thanks scunizi | 21:46 |
| cprofitt | Again, feel free to discuss other applications in the forum thread as well. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8712145 | 21:46 |
| cprofitt | I thank you all for coming. Are there any other questions before we end? | 21:46 |
| cprofitt | we can opne questions to any of the applications covered | 21:46 |
| cprofitt | and remember that the forum thread is open to all the apps covered and those that were not covered | 21:47 |
| Pendulum | < Pernig> Question Not come acrosds mind mapping software before, could you briefly explain? | 21:47 |
| cprofitt | Mind mapping software is kind of a flow of thoughts... | 21:48 |
| cprofitt | you link them in the order that you thought of them... | 21:48 |
| cprofitt | it is used in education a great deal | 21:49 |
| Pendulum | < userdays6_> yes, I wanted a substitute for dreamweaver, but I got compozer and it is not much helpful. Can you suggest a better alternative? | 21:49 |
| cprofitt | yes, I wanted a substitute for dreamweaver, but I got compozer and it is not much helpful. Can you suggest a better alternative? | 21:49 |
| cprofitt | http://linuxappfinder.com/alternatives?search_text=Dreamweaver | 21:49 |
| cprofitt | personally the one I have heard the best about is Bluefish | 21:50 |
| cprofitt | http://linuxappfinder.com/package/bluefish | 21:50 |
| cprofitt | Question: How come Daap plug-in in rhythmbox works with Itunes? | 21:50 |
| cprofitt | To be honest I am not sure why it works with iTunes. I stay as far aware from iTunes as possible. That is why I got my Sansa Fuze -- it supports .ogg and .flac files and works out of the box with Ubuntu | 21:51 |
| cprofitt | any other questions? | 21:52 |
| cprofitt | What are the issues with editing music files? | 21:53 |
| cprofitt | I have been able to edit the genre, title, etc... | 21:53 |
| cprofitt | for editing the music I go in to Rhythmbox and right click ont he song -- then hit properties | 21:54 |
| cprofitt | I can edit the details on that dialog box | 21:54 |
| Pendulum | < Pernig> QUESTION are there any alternatives to empathy and pidgin with similar or better features? | 21:55 |
| cprofitt | I do not use those two apps Pernig, but I would ask that in the forum thread | 21:56 |
| cprofitt | Again, feel free to discuss other applications in the forum thread as well. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8712145 | 21:56 |
| cprofitt | Question: if i wan to program in C# or vb.net can linux alternative | 21:57 |
| cprofitt | you can kind of do C# with mono | 21:57 |
| cprofitt | but I am not aware of an implenetation that allows vb.net | 21:57 |
| cprofitt | personally, I moved away from .Net and am now learning Python | 21:57 |
| cprofitt | Eclipse is in the repos and does have a mono plugin I believe | 21:58 |
| cprofitt | a great area to ask about programming is the forums area dedicated to it | 21:58 |
| cprofitt | http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=39 | 21:58 |
| cprofitt | we have two minutes left before our next session... | 21:58 |
| cprofitt | with the illustrious Mr. Castro helping us all to get Involved in the Ubuntu Community | 21:59 |
| cprofitt | Thank you to this event for helping me be involved in the Ubuntu Community | 22:00 |
| Pendulum | Thank you cprofitt :) | 22:00 |
| cprofitt | I hope that many of you here today will continue to become more comfortable | 22:00 |
| cprofitt | with Ubuntu | 22:00 |
| cprofitt | and perhaps present next time | 22:00 |
| cprofitt | Thanks to everyone... as a group we all make the Ubuntu community what it is | 22:00 |
| * cprofitt waves | 22:00 | |
| === cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Getting involved in the Ubuntu Community ~~ Presented by jcastro || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| Pendulum | Up next is jcastro talking about the Ubuntu Community | 22:01 |
| jcastro | Thanks Pendulum! | 22:01 |
| jcastro | ok, welcome everyone | 22:01 |
| jcastro | I hope you're having a good ubuntu user day! | 22:01 |
| Pendulum | Please don't forget that we have a survey about today, please fill it out at some point during the day http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | 22:01 |
| jcastro | thanks for everyone who put this together. | 22:01 |
| jcastro | I'm going to talk to you about how to get involved in this lovely jumble called the "ubuntu community" | 22:01 |
| jcastro | So I'm going to have a little intro | 22:02 |
| jcastro | then talk about bits | 22:02 |
| jcastro | then let you ask questions, and then we can go from there | 22:02 |
| jcastro | I purposely don't have an outline for this because I don't want to just spam you with bullets | 22:02 |
| jcastro | I'd love to just be swamped with questions. | 22:02 |
| jcastro | so, let's start! | 22:02 |
| jcastro | first off, my name is jorge castro and I work at canonical on the community team. | 22:03 |
| jcastro | Our main mission is to "Help people Rock." | 22:03 |
| jcastro | so we go around different parts of our diverse community gathering things together, picking best practices, and enabling other people to do great work | 22:03 |
| jcastro | ubuntu has a group of developers who actually make the distro | 22:04 |
| jcastro | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSKarmic | 22:04 |
| jcastro | here's a picture! | 22:04 |
| jcastro | but as large as that group is, without the tons and tons of people out there who contribute to Ubuntu it would be difficult to make something like Ubuntu work. | 22:05 |
| jcastro | That's where ubuntu teams come into play | 22:05 |
| jcastro | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams | 22:05 |
| jcastro | one of the fundamental things in how ubuntu is organized is that we're very team based | 22:05 |
| jcastro | one person isn't in charge of "the installer", or "the kernel", it's a group of people | 22:06 |
| jcastro | that wiki page there shows a list of teams in ubuntu | 22:06 |
| jcastro | so when people want to get involved they come up to me and say | 22:06 |
| jcastro | "what can I do for ubuntu?" | 22:06 |
| jcastro | and I usually answer with "well, what do you like to do? What pumps you up?" | 22:06 |
| jcastro | and sometimes here's where people get discouraged | 22:06 |
| jcastro | "well, I don't program, I don't like to write docs, so I guess not much." | 22:07 |
| jcastro | but as it ends up, you don't have to be a hacker or anything to contribute | 22:07 |
| jcastro | because there's so many things we do as a collective group that it involves all sorts of things | 22:07 |
| jcastro | so like marketing, organizing, you name it! | 22:07 |
| jcastro | any questions about the teams or anything like that? | 22:07 |
| Pendulum | < dm-madmod> QUESTION: I tried to get involved with bug triaging and got lost in the maze of flow. The flow chart while interesting wasn't useful. | 22:08 |
| jcastro | ah, great question | 22:08 |
| jcastro | so, as it happens, some of us work on Ubuntu a lot. | 22:08 |
| jcastro | and we come up with really awesome things to do figure out the most effective way to get something done | 22:09 |
| jcastro | the problem sometimes is that we get knee deep in how we do things | 22:09 |
| jcastro | so it's easy to lose perspective on what something that is "easy to understand" | 22:09 |
| Pendulum | < ddecator> QUESTION: much like dm-madmod, i'm not entirely sure how to get involved with the BugSquad...I requested a mentor, but haven't hear back | 22:09 |
| jcastro | So for someone like me, this page looks very easy to use and understand! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/ | 22:10 |
| jcastro | couldn't get any easier, right? | 22:10 |
| jcastro | this comes down to one of those things that we're constantly evaluating | 22:10 |
| jcastro | and when it comes to certain things there's only so much you can break it down to be easy. | 22:11 |
| jcastro | after that it really just becomes a matter of experience | 22:11 |
| jcastro | so yeah, it's hard to keep the maze in check, we always try to make it easier | 22:11 |
| jcastro | if it makes you feel better I've been doing this for /years/ and to this day I need to ask someone on occassion what to do with a bug. | 22:11 |
| jcastro | the key point here is that a) it's ok that you don't know anything | 22:12 |
| jcastro | b) we have a culture where getting help from someone is low barrier and fun to do | 22:12 |
| jcastro | and c) that we continually look for ways to make things easier | 22:12 |
| jcastro | for the mentor question, yeah, it's hard, we have way more requests than we have mentors | 22:12 |
| jcastro | so you're going to have to be patient there | 22:13 |
| jcastro | (note: being persistant and annoying can help sometimes there, heh) | 22:13 |
| jcastro | you might just want to dig in to something small too | 22:13 |
| jcastro | when I first started with something I found something small to work on | 22:13 |
| jcastro | "ok, I really like this mp3 player, I'm going to be the guy who helps people with this." | 22:14 |
| jcastro | and then just jump into launchpad answers or bugs. | 22:14 |
| jcastro | ok | 22:15 |
| jcastro | so, you basically pick a team, and decide what you want to do | 22:15 |
| jcastro | at this point, don't get scared, you're not asking to marry someone or anything like that | 22:15 |
| jcastro | some people like to go all over the place in the distro | 22:15 |
| jcastro | which is fine, you want to have your hands in little pies | 22:15 |
| jcastro | some people like to do one part of the distro and that's all they do, which is fine too | 22:16 |
| jcastro | whatever is interesting to you | 22:16 |
| jcastro | remember too that after a while you will get bored and probably look at something else to do it you end up not liking it | 22:16 |
| jcastro | so since everyone is asking about bugs let's pretend I want to get involved in bugs | 22:16 |
| jcastro | and then you can just apply that to whatever | 22:17 |
| jcastro | So, I read through the thorough documentation on the bugs page | 22:17 |
| jcastro | it's important not to get intimidated when you see such large pages in the wiki | 22:17 |
| jcastro | wikis tend to be very "dumpgroundish" and crufty. They can contain lots of information | 22:18 |
| jcastro | but they can get confusing, but as long as you know that already then they don't scare you right. :) | 22:18 |
| jcastro | the first things that you can do to get how things work is find out where the team "hangs out" | 22:19 |
| jcastro | so most teams in ubuntu have an irc channel | 22:19 |
| jcastro | and a mailing list | 22:19 |
| jcastro | and many teams will hold regular meetings in IRC where they discuss things | 22:19 |
| jcastro | the mailing lists can be particularly helpful because you can read a bunch of things before you even talk to anyone | 22:19 |
| jcastro | that way I don't feel too dumb when I ask a question. ;) | 22:19 |
| jcastro | and for IRC meetings and such many teams publish the logs and results of their meetings on the IRC list. | 22:20 |
| jcastro | reading these are is good because they let you see what people are working on | 22:20 |
| jcastro | and what they need help with! | 22:20 |
| jcastro | it could be as easy as "Joe Smith- I worked on updating this program foo, needs testing though." | 22:20 |
| jcastro | aha! I could help with that! (or not, depending on what you can do) | 22:21 |
| jcastro | most teams also keep a Todo around | 22:21 |
| jcastro | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | 22:21 |
| jcastro | like that ^^ | 22:21 |
| jcastro | some teams even break down things for beginners | 22:21 |
| jcastro | so that when you show up they've already got a list of things to do! | 22:22 |
| jcastro | anyone have any questions on where to find help on teams? or how to get involved initially? | 22:22 |
| jcastro | ok, before I move on; it's important to know that a bunch of things in the ubuntu community are "just do it" | 22:23 |
| jcastro | for example, I run ubuntu openweek, which is like today, except we do it for a week. | 22:23 |
| jcastro | and we have developerweek | 22:23 |
| jcastro | which has a different goal, but similar concept. | 22:23 |
| jcastro | the people who put together today didn't have to ask anyone "is it ok if we had a day of sessions for users?" | 22:24 |
| jcastro | someone just went and did it | 22:24 |
| jcastro | started a wiki page, started gathering people, picked a date, made a schedule <<<---- note, these are things you can do without knowing how to program. | 22:24 |
| jcastro | at that point people who have been around for a while came out of the woodwork to help | 22:24 |
| jcastro | "have you reserved ubuntu-classroom yet? you should do that." | 22:25 |
| jcastro | "hey, someone should have a survey at the end like we did last time, so we know if people liked the sessions so we can make them better" | 22:25 |
| jcastro | "hey did someone make the calendar?" | 22:25 |
| jcastro | and because we're team-based it's easier to ask someone from a team to just jump in for a session and talk about their area of interest | 22:25 |
| jcastro | as a general rule I recommend to people that if they have a good idea to run with it, throw it up on the wiki, and roll with it. | 22:26 |
| jcastro | but be proactive about asking around for help, tips, etc. | 22:26 |
| jcastro | when I first started doing this I had a bunch of ideas | 22:26 |
| jcastro | that never went anywhere because I was either to scared to ask for help or wasn't organized enough to do it | 22:27 |
| jcastro | (ok ok, some of the ideas were just plain bad) | 22:27 |
| jcastro | ok, so you've picked your team and now you know where to hang out | 22:27 |
| jcastro | teams usually have events | 22:27 |
| jcastro | in the case of the bug squad, they have bug days | 22:27 |
| jcastro | these are times when a bunch of them get together and work on bugs | 22:28 |
| jcastro | participating in events is a good way to get experience learning things | 22:28 |
| jcastro | (and also a great place to find a mentor) | 22:28 |
| jcastro | it can be motivational to mark your first bug confirmed (or whatever), but also having guys like qense around when you think you're going to mess up to answer your questions | 22:28 |
| jcastro | unfortunately sometimes things like bug days and stuff might be too time consuming or something, and that's totally ok | 22:29 |
| jcastro | remember that even if you do a little bit that when you have tons of people it all adds up. | 22:29 |
| jcastro | I like to think of it this way (since I'm working on things that aren't bug related this cycle) | 22:29 |
| jcastro | "ok, I only triaged this one bug, but it's one less bug Bryce has to deal with so he can concentrate on making X work better" or whatever it is | 22:30 |
| jcastro | some people get discouraged because they can't commit the time they want to make ubuntu better | 22:30 |
| jcastro | and that's totally fine. | 22:30 |
| jcastro | if you go into a bug day thinking you're going to fix a million bugs you'll just set yourself up to be disappointed, so instead concentrate on working towards the team goal | 22:31 |
| jcastro | any questions while we wait for the spam attack to die off? ;) | 22:32 |
| jcastro | One thing I also wanted to mention | 22:33 |
| jcastro | is that you can do things that aren't on that list of teams | 22:33 |
| jcastro | for example, the people in the ubuntu-ohio Local team run the booth at ohio linuxfest, | 22:34 |
| jcastro | some of those people might not be doing bug triage, or writing code, or working on ubuntu itself, but for that day they make sure that booth is rocking with CDs, answering people's questions, and spreading the love | 22:34 |
| jcastro | contributions like this are hard to measure like things in launchpad or whatever | 22:35 |
| jcastro | but remember that they can be just as important. | 22:35 |
| jcastro | so remember that doing a little part in something can work, don't worry about things like karma or whatever. | 22:36 |
| jcastro | ok, so, idally you are participating in team events in something that interests you | 22:36 |
| jcastro | I've not yet run into an ubuntu team that is "finished" or doesn't have anything to do, so I don't think finding a place to chip in is a problem | 22:37 |
| jcastro | however I would like to hear your experiences about trying to get started in a team have been, so we can make that process suck less. | 22:37 |
| pleia2 | < RPG_Master_> Does a LoCo count as a team? | 22:38 |
| jcastro | yes, absolutely! | 22:38 |
| jcastro | in fact LoCo's are our bread and butter. | 22:38 |
| jcastro | at our loco we try to do a "bug jam" at least once per cycle | 22:39 |
| jcastro | and a release party. | 22:39 |
| pleia2 | < RPG_Master_> QUESTION : What should I do if my LoCo is completely unactive? | 22:39 |
| jcastro | however some loco's are just social groups, some run huge events (google for the french local teams release parties) | 22:39 |
| jcastro | that's an excellent question | 22:39 |
| jcastro | my first loco meeting was me and one other guy | 22:39 |
| jcastro | and no one showed up, so we just drank beer. | 22:39 |
| jcastro | some people would consider that a successful meeting. :p | 22:40 |
| jcastro | one thing I tried to do was find other ubuntu users at local linux user groups | 22:40 |
| jcastro | and get them interested | 22:40 |
| jcastro | we would also run an installfest in cooperation with other linux groups in an area | 22:40 |
| jcastro | but I think for our loco the one bug jam and release party per cycle is our "comfort zone". We tried to do too much one cycle and everyone was sick of it, but you don't want to be boring. | 22:41 |
| jcastro | remember people have lives so trying to have weekly loco meetings can get brutal on people. | 22:41 |
| pleia2 | might be slightly off-topic, but since upstream collaboration is a recent project of yours... < strycore> QUESTION : if I send a patch to Ubuntu , do I also have to send it to Debian ? | 22:41 |
| jcastro | these days we chat in our irc channel and try to make our two events per cycle the most bang-for-the-buck we can | 22:42 |
| jcastro | yeah, I like all the questions | 22:42 |
| jcastro | generally speaking, you don't /have to/, but it's a very strong encouragement. | 22:42 |
| jcastro | some sponsors won't take your patch until you've at least submitted it to debian | 22:42 |
| jcastro | sending our fixes back to debian is a crucial part of the ecosystem | 22:43 |
| jcastro | think of it as a professional courtesy. | 22:43 |
| jcastro | where appropriate of course | 22:43 |
| jcastro | if your patch is ubuntu specific then probably not, if you're not sure the sponsor who is reviewing your patch can answer that question | 22:43 |
| jcastro | if you do not know how to send a patch to debian the sponsor can point you in the right direction | 22:44 |
| pleia2 | < mick__> QUESTION?? Do I have to be a C programer? | 22:44 |
| jcastro | we have a neat tool called "submittodebian" in the archive that you might want to check out | 22:44 |
| jcastro | nope, you don't even have to be a programmer | 22:44 |
| pleia2 | < dm-madmod> QUESTION: Is there a simple way to understand filing bugs upstream? I'm confused by the upstream terminology. | 22:45 |
| jcastro | if you're a python programmer (for example) you can work on that if you want | 22:45 |
| jcastro | another good question! | 22:45 |
| jcastro | let me get you an example bug | 22:45 |
| jcastro | (one sec) smoke if you got em | 22:46 |
| pleia2 | oh, 15 minutes left btw | 22:46 |
| jcastro | right | 22:47 |
| Pendulum | < mick__> QUESTION: I notice a lovely app I use is not in universe/multiverse, how do i get help about packaging etc? | 22:47 |
| jcastro | ok, I can't find the bug, but I'll get back to that | 22:47 |
| jcastro | dm-madmod: generally speaking, I try to first make sure that a bug is an upstream problem, and not a bug we introduced | 22:47 |
| jcastro | which can be hard sometimes | 22:48 |
| jcastro | generally if something is broken I try to reproduce it in upstreams code (I check it out of git or whatever) and then see if it's there | 22:48 |
| jcastro | and then if it is I file it upstream in their bug tracker | 22:48 |
| jcastro | generally speaking feature requests are always nearly an upstream thing, so I file those directly there | 22:48 |
| jcastro | however I will sometimes check launchpad because someone at somepoint probably thought of the same idea, and then I link those | 22:49 |
| jcastro | you can do that by setting a watch on a bug | 22:49 |
| jcastro | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Watches | 22:49 |
| jcastro | which is out of scope for this session, but that gives you the general idea | 22:49 |
| jcastro | mick__: you are in luck! | 22:49 |
| jcastro | I just was working on the documentation for that this week | 22:49 |
| jcastro | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream | 22:50 |
| jcastro | I have been working on documentation for upstreams that want to get into ubuntu | 22:50 |
| jcastro | so people like you and me can help them | 22:50 |
| jcastro | specifically you're looking for: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages | 22:50 |
| jcastro | more questions? | 22:50 |
| pleia2 | < zehrique> QUESTION As a translator, how can I fix a string I found on a .po package and submit the changes to the repository? | 22:51 |
| jcastro | ah, a translations question. | 22:51 |
| jcastro | we have a person on the community team who handles translations, unfortunately I don't have the expertise to handle this, however if you contact david planella he can help you: https://edge.launchpad.net/~dpm | 22:52 |
| jcastro | (pro tip: find the translator team page and ask in their channel or list) | 22:52 |
| jcastro | that way everyone can see your question and it can be available to other people on the internet when they run into the same problem | 22:52 |
| jcastro | 5 more minutes left, more questions! | 22:53 |
| jcastro | no one is going to ask when firefox 3.6 is coming to ubuntu? :) | 22:54 |
| jcastro | (the ubuntu mozillateam is working on it now, I learned that by hanging out in the team channel) | 22:54 |
| pleia2 | here we go! < RPG_Master_> QUESTION : Whens FF3.6 coming to Ubuntu? | 22:54 |
| jcastro | soon! | 22:55 |
| jcastro | more questions? | 22:55 |
| jcastro | ok well, I appreciate you taking your time on a saturday to learn how to get involved in ubuntu | 22:55 |
| jcastro | remember, don't be afraid to ask questions | 22:55 |
| jcastro | we're all in this together, you shouldn't suffer silently if you're lost or confused | 22:55 |
| pleia2 | < nulled> are all ubuntu projects on launchpad? | 22:56 |
| jcastro | usually | 22:56 |
| jcastro | sometimes a loco might have a mailing list hosted someplace else or something like that | 22:56 |
| jcastro | one of the nice things about launchpad is it's designed around the idea of teams, so it's a natural fit to do ubuntu team work | 22:56 |
| jcastro | ok, everyone have a good day | 22:57 |
| pleia2 | thanks jcastro! | 22:57 |
| jcastro | and don't be afraid to hop into #ubuntu-community-team | 22:57 |
| jcastro | if you need help organizing something | 22:57 |
| jcastro | thanks! | 22:57 |
| === _marx_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || Ubuntu User Days | Current Session: Trusted Software, Where to find it, and why ~~ Presented by paultag || Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Ubuntu User Days Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WQWHJQY | ||
| pleia2 | This session is about Trusted Software, Where to find it, and Why presented by paultag | 23:00 |
| pleia2 | Paul has nearly 10 years of Linux experience. He has spent most of that time giving back to the community by helping users as a member of the Ubuntu Beginners Team and through his role as team contact for the Ohio LoCo. | 23:00 |
| pleia2 | Today, Paul will share some of the knowledge that he has acquired, and teach us about trusted software. | 23:00 |
| pleia2 | paultag: the floor is yours :) | 23:00 |
| paultag | :) | 23:00 |
| paultag | Howdy ya'll :) | 23:00 |
| paultag | First of all, I would like to give a HUGE shout-out to jcastro. I'm humbled that I was mentioned in his bit about the Ohio LoCo. Wicked session, I loved it. Hopefully I can be just as clear for ya'll today :) | 23:01 |
| paultag | I am doing this session with a mild direction, and as a result, I would love any questions that are asked | 23:01 |
| paultag | Try to ignore the Spam, I'll be sure to get to you ASA | 23:01 |
| paultag | ASAP, better yet! | 23:01 |
| paultag | First, let's start with the most obvious. Why? | 23:01 |
| paultag | Let's review for a moment an insecure software model. Both Microsoft Windows and Apple OSX have insecure models as it stands today. The idea of getting new software is to “hunt” on the Internet for a while, until you find an advertisement ridden website with a .exe or .dmg download | 23:02 |
| paultag | This model is to get Software A authored by entity X from entity Y. | 23:02 |
| paultag | Euch. | 23:02 |
| paultag | At this point, it is not hard to compromise the software package. It is not hard to inject malicious code, such as worms or viruses, given the code is hosted by an untrusted authority Y. | 23:03 |
| paultag | There was just a whole lot thrown at you right there, any questions about X or Y ? | 23:03 |
| paultag | Let's take a real world example. Let's say that Intel puts out a driver for their graphics card chipset. This driver installer gets picked up by N number of sites, and a fraction of N make it to the front page of Google from a search of that device. | 23:04 |
| paultag | The problem here is that user-uploaded content depends on the trustworthiness of the author. This is quite an issue because there is no “circle of trust” system. Anyone can post items for download. Even simple “voting” systems will compromise some machines, and can be cheated with fake votes through automated means. | 23:05 |
| paultag | <patchwork_> QUESTION- When authority Y provides a MD5 checksum, how can I check the downloaded package? | 23:05 |
| paultag | You may check the checksum with the `md5` command. This is a good way to ensure the software can be trusted, and is authentic. | 23:06 |
| paultag | The issue with that is that you are still forced to check MD5 hashes, and we have better ways of doing it -- let me get into that now | 23:06 |
| paultag | With Debian or Ubuntu GNU/Linux, we use a system called a repository. ( Other distros like Red Hat etc also have these systems as well ) Packages are put into this repository, and signed. This is what the Software Store, apt-get, aptitude and synapic all use as a backend. Not only is is really easy to install software ( no more installer hunts! ), but it is trusted. | 23:07 |
| paultag | The reason why it is trusted is because all the software in that central authority is approved and placed into the system through a review process | 23:08 |
| paultag | This creates a "circle of trust" with the packages and their uploaders | 23:08 |
| paultag | However, one might ask -- Why is this system trusted? | 23:08 |
| paultag | Well, the Repository is maintained by Ubuntu contributors and Debian Developers worldwide. To get into this tight-knight community, it pre-requires a lot of hard work and an intensive peer-review process. | 23:09 |
| paultag | Packages uploaded are subject to review, and meticulous book-keeping is maintained on what has been changed from the upstream version. ( Upstream is simply where the code came from, in our case ( Ubuntu ) it's Debian, and in Debian's case it's the original maintainers | 23:10 |
| paultag | Let's use as example the “Fluxbox” package ( I love fluxbox ) | 23:10 |
| paultag | It is developed at fluxbox.org by a few developers. They are trusted explicitly, as they are the official version of the software. | 23:11 |
| paultag | Any changes ( for better or worse ) are the definitive changes. ( and might I say, canonical! ) | 23:11 |
| paultag | Sorry, I'll lay off the puns ;) | 23:11 |
| paultag | That software is then imported to Debain, where it is maintained by Dmitry Oboukhov. | 23:12 |
| paultag | Dmitry is a trusted member of the Debian project, and his changes are documented clearly, and verified by using MD5 checksums, and changelogs. One should be able to go back and examine exactly what was changed when, and why. Changes are linked to bugs, and undocumented changes are looked down upon very heavily. | 23:12 |
| paultag | Are there any questions about this so far? I just rapid fired a lot at you right now | 23:13 |
| paultag | Changes upstream are currently four patches. Two to correct documentation spelling errors, one to attempt to fix a critical bug, and the last to fix a small bit of bash in a dash script. | 23:13 |
| paultag | You can examine each patch, and view it's author. Two are mine, one is Dmitry's and one is from another Debian collaborator | 23:15 |
| paultag | the patch is also clearly in it's own file, allowing one to easily see what it is doing to the pristine version of the software | 23:15 |
| paultag | This maintains trust, and never touches the original tar | 23:16 |
| paultag | Also included in the modifications from Debian is a theme. It will add a new theme called “Debian”, and a debian themed background. | 23:16 |
| paultag | This is also in it's own directory, and clearly documented | 23:16 |
| paultag | Ubuntu changes go through this same process, except the maintainer is a community of developers known as the “MOTU” or “Masters of the Universe”. | 23:16 |
| paultag | All of these changes are clearly documented and logged, again | 23:17 |
| paultag | The changes also pass through two trusted authorities, Debian and Ubuntu. As we are able to control exactly what goes into the packages, we can ensure that the packages are safe, and changes made are not malicious. | 23:18 |
| paultag | Are there any questions as to this chain so far, and any questions about trusting any of the parties? | 23:18 |
| paultag | OK, I'll move on | 23:19 |
| paultag | What happens when a package is not in the repository? | 23:19 |
| paultag | Now we run into the same problem as before. Hunt for a dpkg, and install it by hand from a ( potentially ) untrusted third party. | 23:20 |
| paultag | This is, of course, unacceptable | 23:20 |
| paultag | AndreMorro[BR]> paultag, we search a pre-compiled orrrr go to the source | 23:20 |
| paultag | Yes AndreMorro[BR], you can do that. You have to be sure that the pre-compiled is trusted though | 23:20 |
| paultag | If you are running Ubuntu, you have a chance of finding it in debian unstable, or a backport, if your release is old. In both of these cases, you can trust the source, either Deb or Ubuntu. | 23:21 |
| paultag | jcastro touched on that a bit | 23:21 |
| paultag | In the case where the software is either so new, unknown to the community, or just plain not in the repositories, there are last lines of defense before going dpkg hunting. There is rarely a case where one should be installing a dpkg they wgot from the internet, or downloaded in a browser | 23:22 |
| paultag | P.S. wgot is my new past tense of wget :) | 23:22 |
| paultag | One key skill is to learn how to install software from source, as AndreMorro[BR] mentioned | 23:23 |
| paultag | This can be very intimidating to the new and even power user, but when done right, it can be a relatively tolerable process. | 23:23 |
| paultag | That, however is a bit outside the scope of what I am presenting now, I won't teach you how to compile for this session – just be aware that compiling from scratch is always more advisable then hunting for a dpkg from any site | 23:24 |
| paultag | <arand> QUESTION Are there any measures to stop a malicious deb package you happen to stumble upon, or would it be able to do pretty much anything it wishes to a system should it be installed. | 23:24 |
| paultag | What a fantastic question | 23:24 |
| paultag | If it is the case of finding it inside the repos for Ubuntu or Debian, the changes are right there, and it is not hard to find the member who did that. | 23:25 |
| paultag | This can lead to any number of things, including getting kicked out of the community | 23:25 |
| paultag | If it is a dpkg on a third party site, there is not much you can do. Report it to the site that is hosing it, and comment on it if you can | 23:25 |
| paultag | That is the trouble with the software model that most are used to in Windows and OSX | 23:26 |
| paultag | <Out_Cold> question: are all ubuntu source packages (including multiverse/universe) trusted and tested by devs? | 23:26 |
| paultag | Out_Cold, Yes, every package is either tested and packaged by Debian maintainers, or if it Ubuntu changed, the MOTU and Ubuntu testers | 23:27 |
| paultag | Out_Cold, every last bit in the repos has been placed there by an Ubuntu or Debian developer | 23:27 |
| paultag | Well, what happens now. It's not in the repos, it's not been backported, a new version is not found upstream, sister distros such as Mint don't have it. What can I, as an educated hacker do? | 23:28 |
| paultag | <AndreMorro[BR]> QUESTION - supose I found a pre-compiled somewhere over the internet, before installing it is there any ways to protect my system?? | 23:28 |
| paultag | AndreMorro[BR], This is a tough one. I wish I could say all developers are honest and hard working. I can't say that. There is a lot out there that even the most seasoned vet could look at and think "Oh that does X" but really does harmful think Y | 23:29 |
| paultag | I would first research the package a bit, figure out what it is, and who wrote it. If you can't find much I would be very hesitant to try it. If you would like to try it and ensure that it won't destroy your system, perhaps a virtual box might help | 23:30 |
| paultag | OK, so back a few lines -- Well, what happens now. It's not in the repos, it's not been backported, a new version is not found upstream, sister distros such as Mint don't have it. What can I, as an educated hacker do? | 23:31 |
| paultag | Always look for trusted sources. Look for reputable sources. Try getdeb. Check for RPM packages in red hat, fedora or centos | 23:32 |
| paultag | Using `alien` is not always the best, but is always better then installing an untrusted dpkg. | 23:32 |
| paultag | If left to no other option, download the untrusted deb file and ask your local guru to take a look at it. You can check the file without installing it. using `ar` to extract it, one can examine what it is doing before it does it | 23:33 |
| paultag | This, however, is also very advanced work. | 23:33 |
| paultag | Always beware. Gnome-Look had an incident where a malicious user uploaded a “screensaver” that was actually a virus. | 23:34 |
| paultag | <SuperEngineer> QUESTION a lot of mentions of ?backported? please explain | 23:34 |
| paultag | Sure thing. A backport is when a new package ( such as Firefox 3.6 ) being built for an old version of a distro | 23:34 |
| paultag | There is a whole repo just for Backports on outdated releases | 23:35 |
| paultag | <AndreMorro[BR]> QUESTION - ar is used to extract .deb ? | 23:35 |
| paultag | Yes, one can extract a deb running `ar x package.deb` | 23:35 |
| paultag | and there are two tar.gz files in there that the advanced user can pick apart | 23:35 |
| paultag | <strycore> you can use fileroller to extract .deb (it uses ar internaly yes) | 23:35 |
| paultag | Yes, you can. Great note. | 23:35 |
| paultag | Novice packagers can do serious damage. There is this one package that looks inocent enough, but when I took a look at the pre/post install, it did very dangerous things, such as changing the mod of global files to 777 ( not good ), and playing with the ownership of kernel modules. | 23:36 |
| paultag | It was done to install his code, but many parts of traditional good practice were violated, and could have caused serious issues. | 23:36 |
| paultag | I won't give it the justice of a mention in here, for the off chance someone might install it :) | 23:37 |
| paultag | <Out_Cold> question: when finding source files that come with a .diff file what do you do with the diff? | 23:37 |
| paultag | a diff is a text file that represents changes that wish to be distributed against the software | 23:38 |
| paultag | So, if we were to both use package A, and I wished to create feature X, I could edit the package A and then difference ( or diff ) the two directories | 23:39 |
| paultag | Then I could save those changes as a "diff", and distribute them to others who want feature X | 23:39 |
| paultag | Treat a diff as you would anything else. It's code, and one can produce a patch to do malicious things | 23:39 |
| paultag | you may apply them using the "patch" command | 23:40 |
| paultag | debian / ubuntu uses a few different systems within the dpkg, but they all do the same thing | 23:40 |
| paultag | Now, I threw a lot at you with regards to how one should trust software in the Repos. Any questions as to why? | 23:41 |
| paultag | OK. Well I'll add a bit more on to the "Circle of Trust" | 23:41 |
| paultag | The developers for Ubuntu have PGP keys. PGP keys are one of the few ways that trust can be demonstrated in an ad-hoc community | 23:42 |
| paultag | ( and Debian ) | 23:42 |
| paultag | When I say Ubuntu, treat it as both Ubuntu and Debian :) | 23:43 |
| paultag | One maintains their key, and uses it to "sign" documents. Each signature is unique, generated off the content of the file, and their private key | 23:43 |
| paultag | If you trust the holder of the key, then you can therefore trust the content, if the signature + content matches their key | 23:44 |
| paultag | But, it would be very hard for one to go, and say "I trust developer Joe" and "I trust developer Sue" | 23:44 |
| paultag | so, developers will meet up in person, pull out photo ID, and verify that the key is a match to who they are | 23:44 |
| paultag | they then sign each other's key, and if you trust Joe, then you can therefore trust Sue, because Joe trusts Sue ( and you trust Joe ) | 23:45 |
| paultag | This is done throughout the whole community, and eventually we have a trusted, and very particular ring of trust | 23:46 |
| paultag | Now, it would be silly to even expect a new user to know a single developer, so what then? | 23:46 |
| paultag | They can trust the Repo, because they trust Ubuntu enough to install it. | 23:46 |
| paultag | <Out_Cold> QUESTION pgp keys can be duplicated can they not? | 23:47 |
| paultag | Out_Cold, yes, one can copy a key, but it has no effect on security | 23:47 |
| paultag | There are two halfs to the key, a public half and a private half | 23:47 |
| paultag | the public half is in keyserver.ubuntu.com ( among others ), and the private key exists only on the developer's machine | 23:48 |
| paultag | <Out_Cold> would that not allow one to compromise a dev's account? | 23:48 |
| paultag | Knowing the public key only allows one to encrypt for them, and verify their signatures. It is mathematically imposable to use a public key to sign a document | 23:49 |
| paultag | So, in the repos there is a package. For debian it's debian-keyring | 23:49 |
| paultag | The description on apt-get says it all --- | 23:50 |
| paultag | Description: GnuPG (and obsolete PGP) keys of Debian Developers | 23:50 |
| paultag | The Debian project wants developers to digitally sign the announcements of | 23:50 |
| paultag | their packages with GnuPG, to protect against forgeries. This package contains | 23:50 |
| paultag | keyrings of GnuPG and (deprecated) PGP keys of developers. | 23:50 |
| paultag | So, by installing Ubuntu or Debian, you install a set of trusted keys to the car, as it were | 23:50 |
| paultag | This also allows you to ensure _every_ last bit of code is verified by a developer that is trusted by the community | 23:51 |
| paultag | apt does this automagicly, if you were to remove the -keyring package, and install something like "firefox", it would give you an error and warning that it could not verify the code | 23:51 |
| paultag | Are there any questions on how the keyring works, and how that is used to ensure trusted software? | 23:52 |
| paultag | <tcpip4000> ...it's mathematically possible but in practice is very difficult | 23:52 |
| paultag | tcpip4000, Yes, you are right. You can brute force anything. | 23:52 |
| paultag | tcpip4000, The numbers to do that though would require more computation power then we have right now to break, and that key can be "untrusted" very easily | 23:53 |
| paultag | I'm a CS major, I treat large numbers as infinity :) | 23:53 |
| paultag | <tcpip4000> QUESTION: how is identify and handle a breach in the circle of trust? | 23:54 |
| paultag | It's hard. Anyone can upload to the build daemons, but it throws out anything that is not signed by the right person. If the code is signed by a trusted developer, and uploaded, it will get built, and placed into the tree it was uploaded into | 23:54 |
| paultag | The way to catch it would be to have someone notice, and report it. In general the QA team reviews this stuff in Debian, and Ubuntu is very peer-reviewed. | 23:55 |
| paultag | It could get into the repo ( in the case of breaking someone's hand until they gave up a password ), but that would be identified pretty quick. | 23:55 |
| paultag | Also, in Debian there is usually more then one developer on a package, and they would look to see what changed, if nothing else then just curiosity | 23:56 |
| paultag | Any other questions about the key system used to ensure trust? | 23:56 |
| paultag | Any questions at all? | 23:57 |
| paultag | Ah, there it is | 23:57 |
| paultag | <nulled> does ubuntu use sha or md5? | 23:57 |
| paultag | nulled, we keep MD5 sums on files ( dpkg does this ). There is a theoretical security risk with MD5, but due to the fact we have a lot ensuring uploads are trusted, it is really a "make sure you are honest" kinda thing. | 23:58 |
| paultag | MD5 sums are also a tad quicker IIRC, and that helps build the code | 23:59 |
| paultag | <nulled> i noticed it takes longer and longer to read in packages due to the amoount of them.. is apt going to get efficiency enchanced? | 23:59 |
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