simba_hmm...to run boxee in lucid i had to manually add libfaad and libmysqlclient...00:11
arandsimba_: Faulty depends? -> file a bug ;)00:20
simba_arand, yes, but it was a karmic version and not from "our" repos, so i did it with boxee00:21
simba_arand, i just wanted to see what all the fuzz with boxee realy was00:22
arandah, okies, sorry, it was a kind of handwavey answer, I know nothing of boxee really.00:23
simba_arand, just read a lot about it in all the CES news...it is kind of a mediasenter00:24
simba_arand, have install files for win, mac and ubuntu....00:25
arandAh, I've heard about that in a podcast sometime I think. Didn't ever dabble in mediacentres. Well I guess if the deb is from them the packaging bug should be thrown at them..00:29
simba_just remember someone was having trouble getting it running the other day.00:30
blueyedHow do I need to change a previous HAL fdi file, so it gets handled in Lucid? (http://daniel.hahler.de/hal-configuration-fdi-for-kingsis-peripherals-evoluent-verticalmouse-3)00:31
dupondjeback on Lucid :)00:38
BUGabundowb dupondje00:39
geserblueyed: I guess you need to change it to udev rules00:39
dupondjestart menu not translated yet ? :)00:39
geserblueyed: perhaps does this give you enough hints how to transform it: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/lucid/annotate/head%3A/debian/66-xorg-synaptics.rules00:41
blueyedthanks geser, I've found https://wiki.kubuntu.org/X/InputConfiguration#Migration%20from%20hal%20FDI%20files already00:42
gesereven better :)00:43
* geser bookmarks this page on the ubuntu wiki00:44
blueyedyay, it worked, thanks.00:49
dupondjeremoving tons of packages :)00:49
dupondjemarking all manually installed packages as autoinstalled, and then select the ones you need :)00:49
dupondje176 packages removed :)01:02
simba_dupondje, what is the command for that?01:07
BUGabundosimba_: auto-remove01:08
simba_BUGabundo, autoremove will remove them, but mark all maualy installed as autoinstalled01:09
dupondjeI still got firefox 3.0.7 languages installed, any idea how to remove them ?01:10
LaibschI have used debootstrap to create a hardy chroot (console-only).  I then upgraded that to lucid by editing /etc/apt/sources.list and "aptitude udpate;aptitude".  I'm stuck with this error: http://paste.debian.net/57461/ for which google does not seem to have an answer.  Do you?  bug or PEBKAC?01:10
dupondjeBUGabundo: doesn't seem to have a package installed :s01:11
dupondjefound :)01:12
BUGabundonuke it :P01:17
simba_Laibsch, do you need to mount sysfs and proc when installing with debootstrap?01:19
Laibschsimba_: I used to01:19
LaibschThis time proc was already mounted01:19
LaibschAnd I think sysfs, too01:19
Laibschyes, sysfs seems to have been mounted automatically01:20
LaibschThe host runs hardy, btw01:20
Laibschthe chroot has been updated from hardy to lucid01:20
simba_havent used debootsrap, but that was what i could think of01:20
simba_Laibsch, there are a few versions between hardy and lucid01:22
LaibschI think that update-path is supported01:22
LaibschLTS -> LTS01:22
LaibschI tend to think it's PEBKAC, but I can't rule out a bug.  If it was a bug, I wonder what package it may be.01:26
RAOFLaibsch: Upgrading Hardy->Lucid by changing the series in sources.list isn't really supported; what will be supported is upgrading via update-manager (and it's command-line brother, do-release-upgrade)01:39
LaibschI'll restart the chroot01:40
RAOFI don't think Hardy's update-manager has been taught about Lucid yet, either.  I don't *think* Hardy->Lucid upgrades are supported just yet.01:41
LaibschI see01:41
LaibschI'm not convinced that is the root cause of this, anyway01:42
simba_Laibsch, some of the pachages have a chicken-egg thing....to far leap might brake dependency's with to big leaps when installing one by one like apt-get does01:44
RAOFLaibsch: Oh.  Now that I've actually looked at your error, that'll be due to the DBus system daemon not running.01:55
RAOFI think.  Possibly it's because upstart's not running, because it's detected you're in a chroot.01:56
Volkodav_Do I add medibuntu as usual or it is different for lynx ?01:56
Laibschyes, there is something about upstart in the log01:56
Laibschwill a hardy host even be able to accomodate a lucid chroot?01:56
simba_Volkodav_, as usual01:56
RAOFLaibsch: I think that some stuff just won't try to start; I'm fairly sure Lucid's udev won't work with the kernel in Hardy.01:58
LaibschAll I do in hary itself in maintain the chroot01:59
LaibschThe chroot itself shall be used for booting computers over PXE01:59
RAOFInteresting.  I'm pretty sure that you should be able to get a lucid chroot happening, even under Hardy.02:00
simba_Laibsch, apt with --force option dont work either?02:03
LaibschI've already removed the chroot02:03
Laibschand have restarted02:03
prefrontalupraded to lucid, wired connection not working. ifconfig shows i have an ip address and my nfs mount is working.03:12
prefrontali can also ssh to this machine from another machine..03:13
yofelprefrontal: can you define 'not working'? You can't access the internet?03:27
yofelwhat does 'ping google.com' in a terminal tell you? maybe the DNS setup is wrong03:28
petsoundshi. when i install recommended nvidia driver from jockey-gtk i got an error msg like this http://is.gd/6UWB8 and then i try to restart the computer but it seems that i've installed wrong driver like this http://is.gd/6UX1p06:30
petsoundsand this is the the output from jockey.log http://pastebin.ca/176369306:38
knittlhow can i troubleshoot locale-problems?10:22
dupondjeLucid just feels a bit better then Karmic :)10:43
dupondjenice improvement10:43
eagles0513875everythign feels a bit better then the previous10:46
knittlexcept my terminal -.-10:47
dupondje:) the user settings programm seems fucked up, I set my user to administrator, but nothing changes when I click ok, it keeps telling 'custom' :)10:48
hififirefox 3.6 coming when?10:58
dupondje 501. By Alexander Sack  19 hours ago11:04
dupondje    releasing version 3.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu111:04
dupondjethey are working on it :D11:04
Ian_Cornei got it from the ppa :p11:07
switchgirlanyone able to shed light on why ubuntu karmic refuses to boot at all?11:07
hifi(the release version, not hg)11:07
dupondjesomebody should push new versions of synce to Lucid :)11:29
junkY_Sanhi, i'm using alpha2 and have an ati card. is it possible that the ati drivers aren't compatible with the latest xorg-server? because my X always complains that is runs in safe mode11:38
dupondjejunkY_San: in release notes there is a warning about that11:46
dupondjeThe fglrx binary driver for ATI video chipsets does not yet support the X server in Lucid. As a workaround, users should use the open source -ati driver instead. (506656)11:47
junkY_Sanah thanks11:48
petsoundshi. when i install recommended nvidia driver from jockey-gtk i got an error msg like this http://is.gd/6UWB8 and then i try to restart the computer but it seems that i've installed wrong driver like this http://is.gd/6UX1p and this is the the output from jockey.log http://pastebin.ca/176369312:53
knittlhi, i have texlive in status held back for almost a week now13:06
knittlis it save to dist-upgrade? it wants to remove texlive-base-bin, dvipdfmx and libkadm5srv613:06
yofelmeh, petsounds gone already...13:08
geserknittl: texlive-base-bin got replaced with texlive-binaries so it's removal is ok13:10
geserlibkadm5srv6 is unreleated to TeX13:10
knittlok, i'll dist-upgrade then. thanks geser13:12
knittlneed to get 500 mb of archives. texlive is HUUUGE13:13
junkY_Sanfinaly got the radeon driver working again with 3d acceleration. there were some strange libgl packages installed13:19
dupondjepidgin icon went fucked :p13:34
dupondjeits now with a big white border ...13:34
dupondjeany idea ? :)13:34
penguin42sometime in the last week gnome shell got installable13:46
penguin42hmm but apparently not usable13:53
tgpraveenhey guys I am on lucid and am somewhat a newbie at installation fom source.14:27
tgpraveenI need the latest version of a program called tucan so I did14:27
tgpraveensvn co https://forja.rediris.es/svn/cusl3-tucan/trunk14:27
tgpraveenin terminal after installing svn14:27
tgpraveennow what is the next step I got the long list of output alongwith14:27
tgpraveenChecked out revision 1396.14:27
tgpraveennow what to do?14:27
tgpraveenwhere are the files downloaded to? how to compile? please soemone help14:28
chris|cd trunk && sudo make install14:37
diverse_izzuei have an existing karmic installation, and a free partition that i would like to use to test lucid. if i install it there, and choose not to install a boodloader, will karmic's GRUB pick it up when i next run update-grub?14:40
penguin42diverse_izzue: I don't think so14:42
diverse_izzuepenguin42, how would you parallel install the two?14:43
penguin42diverse_izzue: I typically install in a vm for testing, but I think the otherway might be to install the bootloader in the partition that you are installing lucid into and then tell the first grub to chainload the 2nd - I don't know the syntax on gnome2 to do that though14:44
diverse_izzuepenguin42, that's what i was thinking also, but i know that grub2 has some scripts to incorporate other linuxes, that's why i ask14:45
penguin42diverse_izzue: It might, I've not tried to do taht - but I don't think so14:45
tgpraveenchris|: that seemed to have worked14:46
tgpraveennext what do I do I mean how do I run it. I had earlier installed tucan from the repos so now is that version itself updated?14:46
tgpraveencan I run this latest version (from source) by using the applications menu icon of tucan14:46
duffydackdiverse_izzue, just install it side by side it`ll pick up the other linux14:55
diverse_izzueduffydack, thanks, that's what i wanted to hear14:56
duffydackdiverse_izzue,  I removed mine ealier (lucid).  rebooted into karmic, removed the partition and dod sudo grub-install --root-directory=/     /dev/sda  to restore grub14:57
diverse_izzueduffydack, so you had lucid's grub installed into the MBR?14:58
duffydackdiverse_izzue, yes. it was the default boot distro14:59
diverse_izzueduffydack, i plan to not install a bootloader for lucid and use karmic's for the time being14:59
duffydackdiverse_izzue, I guess update-grub will invoke os-prober and handle it for you.. never tried15:01
duffydackdiverse_izzue, I wanna try some of this. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/01/make-grub-themes-beautiful-look-nicer.html15:01
diverse_izzuelooks sweet, but this is my primary machine, playing so much with the boot loader is asking for trouble *g15:02
duffydackdiverse_izzue, thats why ive got a clonezilla backup of everything sat on my usb hd :)15:03
duffydackdiverse_izzue, could use wubi I guess?15:06
diverse_izzuei do regular backups too, still, one easily looses a lot of time restoring15:12
simba_sudo lshw messed up my screen (all turned green), had to do <ctrl><alt><f1>,<ctrl><alt><f7> to fix it...anyone else have this?15:41
penguin42simba_: It's OK here15:44
Adysall fine here too15:44
simba_what gfx caru u use?15:45
=== Adys_ is now known as Adys
simba_i have a intel...15:45
Adysnvidia 9800gtx+15:45
penguin42mine is radeon15:45
xguruhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa   <-- added this ppa updated and nothing is listed to upgrade.  Any ideas?15:46
simba_anyone using intel i915 driver?15:46
charlie-tcaxguru: packages should already be in lucid, then.15:47
xguruhttp://www.clickonf5.org/linux/ubuntu-lucid-windows-aero-style-transparent-look/6038  <--  desktop doesn't look like this...is there something i have to enable?15:48
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
ryanpgis the daily build installer working for 32 bit intel?17:07
simba_where to put x11vnc line in lucid for being able to connect at login?17:24
BluesKajsimba_, /etc/init.d but you need to make it into a script17:26
penguin42simba_: Do you mean so that you can login via vnc or do you mean so that when you do login it immediately starts?17:27
penguin42the two are quite different17:28
simba_BluesKaj, it used to be just a line in gdm.conf just afther path....17:28
BluesKajthen try that17:29
simba_penguin42, so i can use vnc when gdm gives login screen17:29
penguin42simba_: are you sure you want x11vnc? Another way to do the same thing is to run a VNC Xserver and then have gdm start on that X server as well as your default one?17:29
simba_yeah, that might be better, just used to x11vnc sins it shows the same as the screen....but i dont need it now sins it will be a remote box in time17:31
penguin42having said that, I'm not sure what the right way to get gdm to start that is17:31
simba_if i am lucky the install script might do the job *hoping*17:32
=== Floops[w]1 is now known as Fringe
dupondjeany idea why my pidgin icon is messed up ? :) its now in a white box .. :)17:39
simba_this works for lucid to for x11vnc: http://flukylogs.blogspot.com/2009/11/setting-up-vnc-for-gdm-login.html17:59
penguin42simba_: so that gets you a vnc shared with the display you can see on your real display?18:45
simba_penguin42, yes18:49
penguin42simba_: It is possible to make them actually seperate displays by getting the gdm to start on an Xvncserver - but I can't find a modern recipy for that18:51
knittli still don't have umlauts in my gnome-terminal18:53
knittlbut i think i'm closer to the solution18:53
knittlsome site mention to edit /etc/environment, but i wanted to ask if there is another solution?18:53
knittlit's only since karmic18:54
knittlund X/gdm seem to reset the locale, because my ttys work perfectly18:54
yofelyay, kde4.4 rc2 has a sane KDM backround again :)19:06
koudhow can i remove the debug stuff from 10.04?19:31
BUGabundowhat debug stuff?19:32
yofelkoud: notify-osd?19:32
koudfor the osd forexample19:32
BUGabundoI have a bug for it19:32
BUGabundoyou need to change a flag19:32
CosmiChaosis deadline for compiz the partner upload deadline or the feature freeze?19:33
BUGabundo 19:33
BUGabundoOpen "/usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service"19:33
BUGabundowith a text editor and remove "DEBUG=1".19:33
Some_PersonIs it possible to install lucid onto an SD card?19:40
Some_PersonI'd like to test it, but don't want to have it on my HD19:40
CosmiChaoswhen do they fix plymouth for nvidia ...19:41
dupondjedistro[Ubuntu "luiid" 10004]19:59
dupondjebug in xchat ;)19:59
bjsniderluiid is a secret distro created by a shadowy agency that's drawing it's plans against us20:02
crimsunCosmiChaos: compiz is unrelated to partner20:04
dupondjedon't know where the heck it gets luiid from :P20:04
CosmiChaoswhat is it related to then?20:04
crimsunpatches accepted20:04
dupondjeit parses this, and outputs luiid :)20:04
crimsunCosmiChaos: bug fixes have no deadline20:05
crimsunCosmiChaos: feature additions have the deadline of FeatureFreeze20:06
BUGabundocrimsun: today my sound started clipping... it was so nice two days ago :(20:08
bjsniderdefine clipping20:10
dupondjemy sound skips also if I play from share, but it looks like Microsoft can't even have their cifs crap bugfree :(20:13
BUGabundobjsnider: you still have your  64bits flash ppa?20:17
BUGabundobjsnider: clipping: as in sound is so high it disorces20:17
bjsniderBUGabundo, if you want to use it can enable it for a brief period20:18
prefrontaljust upgraded to lucid. i have an ip address, my nfs mount is working and I can ssh to this machine, but it is not connected to the internet. ping doesn't work for example20:18
dupondjeroute ?20:19
dupondjewhats output of route ?20:20
BUGabundobjsnider: was looking for a more "permenant" ppa, so I can give it way to ppl having trouble with frlash wrapper20:20
prefrontaldupondje, http://pastebin.ca/raw/176434920:21
bjsniderBUGabundo, get written permission from adobe for me and i'll do that20:21
BUGabundowe can redistribute it20:22
bjsniderget me a document that will stand up in court20:22
prefrontaldupondje, here is the route output for a jaunty machine right next to this lucid one that is working correctly: http://pastebin.ca/raw/176435020:22
dupondjeseems like you get weird ip ? :p20:23
prefrontalthese machines have dedicated ip addresses IIRC20:24
bjsniderdefault gateway should be a router's ip address. instead you've got a .c file or something20:26
prefrontalis that to me? a .c aka config file?20:27
prefrontalwait, the default gateway is not an ip address on the machine that works20:28
prefrontal`locate muen-gw-clipr.c' brings up nothing20:29
bjsniderwell, th config file should contain the necessary ip address20:33
bjsniderrouters for the past few years have been able to do a combination of static and dhcp, so you don't need to configure that on the client20:35
bjsnideryou can use dhcp on the cient and configure the router to give it the same ip address every time20:35
bjsniderunless you have an old router20:35
prefrontalwe have a dozen or so identically configured workstations. the rest of them are running jaunty, this new one is running lucid20:36
prefrontali don't think i need to reconfigure anything on the router as the rest of them are working20:36
prefrontalit does seem plausible that a config file was overwritten on the workstation during do-release-upgrade. the question is, which one?20:38
bjsniderthe muen-gw-clipr.c file exists on the lucid system?20:40
prefrontalit doesn't even exist on the jaunty system20:41
prefrontalmuen-gw-clipr.c is the default gateway for the jaunty system20:41
bjsniderthere are files in /etc/network20:42
bjsnideri'll bet if you compare them with the jaunty systems you'll find out what's wrong20:43
bjsnideri still think it would be better to configure the router, just simplify each client to use dhcp and back up the router settings to a jump drive20:44
prefrontalfound it fixed it. somehow the dns nameserver was misconfiged20:52
prefrontalthanks bjsnider20:52
aciculaIs couchdb installed by default on ubuntu? tried checking the dependency but that doesnt list ubuntu-desktop20:53
yofelacicula: ubuntu one uses it20:53
aciculahmm ok20:54
aciculanot sure if i ever installed that, but i guess something pulled it in, thanx yofel20:56
yofelacicula: actually I might be wrong20:56
yofelseems like evolution depends on it20:57
yofelover evolution-couchdb20:57
aciculaah yeah, that makes sense20:59
alex_mayorgaDoes "Switch User..." works for anyone?21:10
BUGabundoalex_mayorga: with what GPU and drivers?21:18
DanaGhmm, I don't get a working plymouth.21:26
BUGabundoany one those?21:30
* yofel wants qt 4.6.1 21:37
RAOFNo, you can't have a pony :P21:38
dupondje\0 = NULL ?21:46
geserno, NULL is a pointer while \0 is a char22:06
ZerHas anyone had libvirtd break for you? If so, how did you solve it?22:10
Zer(updating in the last month... I had it working fine in December)22:10
dupondjelol, there has been a bug in xchat-xsys for 2 years22:26
dupondjeand nobody noticed it :)22:26
bjsniderxchat is almost a dead project, that's why22:27
bjsnidernot to say people don't use it, because they do. but i don't think anybody's developing it22:28
dupondjehttp://codepad.org/G2fwwjSS => the bug is here, you have the last strcpy is wrong, but don't know how to solve it 100% correctly)22:29
robin0800dupondje: perhaps try quassel22:29
ZerHas anyone tried libvirtd with the current version? It seems to have broken.22:31
alex_mayorgaBUGabundo, how can I tell?22:31
BUGabundocontext please22:31
alex_mayorgaI have an nvidia card, but I don't really know what driver is in use22:32
alex_mayorgaSunday January 24 2010, 15:09 - alex_mayorga: Does "Switch User..." works for anyone?22:32
BUGabundonow I remember22:32
BUGabundoI'll have to test it later22:33
BUGabundoI do know I can have two accounts loged int22:33
BUGabundobut its via FreeNX22:33
DanaGargh, virt-manager doesn't allow ARM VMs.22:33
alex_mayorgawhen I click switch user I see the user list, but when the pointer moves or a ke is pressed I get the password prompt for the user currently logged in22:34
DanaGAnd none of the ubuntu ARM stuff works for the stuff qemu can emulate.22:34
ZerDanaG, is virt-manager working for you at all in 10.04?22:35
DanaGIt would connect, but didn't offer any button but "cancel" on the new-vm wizard.22:36
DanaGlibvirt-bin is the daemon -- had to be installed separately.22:36
WeatherGodalex_mayorga, that seems like there is some sort of permissions issue that got messed up22:44
WeatherGodI can't confirm it though, because I am only using a LiveCD version right now22:44
alex_mayorgaI wonder what's the component I should bug report against22:45
alex_mayorgacan anyone else reproduce?22:45
alex_mayorgaBUGabundo: how do I tell what's the video driver in use?22:46
BUGabundoalex_mayorga: check out jockey22:51
bjsnidercheck for nv, nouveau or nvidia22:52
bjsniderof course the module could be loaded but not in use22:52
alex_mayorgathanks, let me check22:54
alex_mayorganone of those show, so it's happening with the vesa driver I guess22:56
rr_lapis anyone using xchat?23:01
charlie-tcaI have it usable. I switch between xchat and weechat right now.23:02
rr_lapcharlie-tca, are your hilighted tabs acting up?23:03
rr_lapok thought it was just me23:03
rr_lapis there a bug filed?23:03
charlie-tcabih yup23:03
charlie-tcabug 50829723:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 508297 in gtk+2.0 "[lucid] xchat channels do not change color anymore" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50829723:03
charlie-tcaThat's why I thought I would try weechat. Xchat is driving me nuts23:04
Sarvatttree view works fine still23:05
crimsunBUGabundo: I'm not sure what that means, but you definitely need to give me alsa-info.sh output when that symptom occurs, because I need both the HDA codec dump and the mixer settings23:05
crimsunBUGabundo: here are general steps to troubleshoot: 1. check PA's volume.  2. check the amp val for your stereo-out mixer widget.  3. check the verbose PA log.23:07
alex_mayorgaso no-one here switch users, ever?23:07
ZerIt *appears* that if you use virt-manager, and have a CDROM drive with no ISO connected,23:07
Zerthe VM will not start.23:07
Sarvattits broken with plymouth right now alex_mayorga23:07
BUGabundocrimsun: thanks. I check both 1st. I usually do, before reporting23:08
ZerIf you remove that CDROM drive, it will. Last month's version did not do that :)23:08
alex_mayorgaSarvatt, Thanks! No need to report then? Is there a bug #?23:08
BUGabundowanna now the funny part, no longer happening ... it _fixed_ it self.... I hate this bugs23:08
Sarvattdisable splash from your kernel command line and it'll work normal, or use log out applet for a few days23:08
Sarvattyeah there are a bunch but i dont have any handy at the moment, i'm sorry :(23:08
Sarvattwill get back to you when i get home if you havent found one23:09
ZerYep, getting rid of uninserted CDROM drives makes libvirt work again23:09
crimsunBUGabundo: please, just get me the requested info when it next occurs, because I can't troubleshoot lack-of-symptom23:09
WeatherGodcrimsun, just letting you know... that system bell bug report got upstreamed by one of the reporters23:10
BUGabundoI know I know Daniel...23:10
crimsunWeatherGod: as it should have been.23:10
crimsunWeatherGod: I don't care much for GNOME bugs, as that lies outside my resource allocation.23:10
alex_mayorgaSarvatt: thanks, much appreciated23:10
Sarvattalex_mayorga: if you use the log out applet in gnome instead of the indicator-applet-session's switch user it'll work even with plymouth for now though23:11
WeatherGodcrimsun, yeah, kinda figured, but this one was so messy, it was hard to determine where the fault lies23:11
Sarvattdo you get kicked to a VT with the mouse still functional?23:11
crimsunWeatherGod: it won't even be remotely resolvable until Ubuntu gains a 2.6.34 kernel23:11
alex_mayorgaSarvatt, unfortunately I don't have much space for yet another applet :)23:11
WeatherGodcrimsun, so, that will be 10.10?23:12
alex_mayorgaSarvatt, no I get kicked to the user logged unlock screen23:12
crimsunWeatherGod: no idea23:12
alex_mayorgaover and over23:12
crimsunWeatherGod: I have no idea what sorts of regressions will be in whatever 10.10 ships23:12
Sarvattah and it doesn't go farther?23:12
alex_mayorgaDanaG: how's your crusade against notify going?23:13
WeatherGodcrimsun, guess we will have to wait and see23:13
DanaGeh, I just use notification-daemon.23:13
Sarvattalex_mayorga: it might not be the same bug then, what GPU are you using? the plymouth one is only really affecting intel23:13
DanaGThough, oddly enough, brightness control doesn't work in gnome-power-manager.23:14
DanaGThe ubuntu devs must've done something to break it when not using notify-osd.23:14
alex_mayorgaSarvatt: the laptop has an nvidia chip, but I don't think the driver is in use23:14
Sarvattyou dont see the splash when you boot up do you?23:14
Sarvattblack screen with a ubuntu logo in the middle23:15
crimsunDanaG: might want to ping them during the workweek in #ubuntu-desktop, then.23:15
Sarvattyeah doesn't seem like the same bug, sorry to throw you off alex_mayorga23:15
bjsniderDanaG, you're on a crusade to stop notify-osd before it kills again?23:15
crimsun(I doubt there's any sort of conspiracy, but people love to make up all sorts of FUD ;)23:15
alex_mayorgaSarvatt: no splash, I see text23:16
alex_mayorgamy angst with notify-osd is I don't get *any* configuration controls, but they keep saying thats a feature not a bug :S23:18
WeatherGodI am actually dealing with a bug report right now about the notify-osd...23:18
WeatherGodthe guy is convinced that having the osd disappear on hover is a bug23:18
BUGabundobjsnider: not that I like to support DanaG, I do fell that notify-osd (that I didn't like that much when it came) is now taking tooooo much visual space, and not transparent enough23:18
crimsunpoint the OR to the design spec for notify-osd, and have him/her argue with macslow, then.23:19
crimsun(now that would be an interesting exchange)23:19
DanaGMy argument is that it's supposed to make display time proportional to amount of text... but it doesn't.23:19
WeatherGodhmm, that's a good idea, maybe23:19
RAOFDanaG: Which is a bug, obviously.23:19
DanaGA 3-word notification and a 30-word notification, both sent via notify-send, will both show for 10 seconds.23:20
ubottuDebian bug 544750 in notify-osd "notify-osd: Unable to lower notification's expiry time than ten seconds" [Normal,Open]23:20
DanaGnot sure why that report is on debian.23:20
RAOFC isn't *that* hard to learn; implement that part of the spec :)23:20
ubottuUbuntu bug 423314 in notify-osd "Unable to lower notification's expiry time than ten seconds" [Wishlist,Invalid]23:20
DanaGI say, they should stop ignoring the time they're asked to display the thing for!23:21
DanaGAt least within reason.23:21
RAOFHave you had that discussion with the ayatana folks?23:21
DanaGwell, about the most I have is the comment on that bug report.23:21
DanaGAnd what does that name "Ayatana" mean, anyway?23:21
alex_mayorgaWeatherGod: I tend to agree, usually when I move the mouse I'm trying to achieve a target23:22
DanaGand that blurring... augh, eye torture.23:22
WeatherGodyeah, and when using something like pidgin, and you have someone IM'ing you, the bubble stays up and gets in the  way23:22
DanaGstress-test: while (true); do notify-send this sucks; done23:23
DanaGthat'll block notify-osd for 500 seconds.23:23
RAOFDanaG: Another part of the spec that isn't implmented, yes.23:23
DanaG50 is the maximum queue length.23:23
DanaG10 seconds is the duration.23:23
BUGabundoDanaG: the blur SUCKs23:24
BUGabundomouse over does NOTHING23:24
DanaGRun that on MacSlow's computer some time when he's not watching. =þ23:24
DanaGThen ctrl-c it after a moment.23:24
WeatherGodwhat blur?23:24
alex_mayorgaspecially when the users come from win32 and they're so used to click the msn "toaster" to act on it23:24
RAOFDanaG: While there's certainly stuff of value in what you're saying, bitching about it in #ubuntu+1 isn't really going to do anything other than make you feel better.23:25
DanaGAnd the bugtracker seems ignored, as well.23:26
charlie-tcaUnfortunately, bug reports do nothing also23:26
alex_mayorgaDanaG, let's go to #ayatana I'll back you up :)23:26
alex_mayorgaseems like the group is pretty sure,  they're doing it right23:26
charlie-tcaWish you more luck than I had with ayatana23:26
alex_mayorgayeah! I tried and failed once too23:26
DanaGeh, I don't feel like arguing with anyone right now... have homework to do.23:27
crimsunfolks, hint: patches (or git/bzr branches) speak louder than any amount of bitching on irc.23:27
DanaGyay, raytracing.  NO recursion yet.23:27
DanaGoops, didn't mean to double-caps.23:27
WeatherGodcrimsun, so true23:27
alex_mayorgashow those notification to a win32 grandma and try to explain they'll dissipate when she tries to attain them  with the mouse23:27
WeatherGodbut, why should they try and click on them?23:28
alex_mayorgabecause that's the way they're used to interact with notifications23:28
RAOFI *think* you'll find that the way they're used to interacting with notifications is to look at them and ignore them.23:29
DanaGI'm not arguing with the noninteractivity, per se... just with the ludicrous minimum time.23:29
alex_mayorgaalso when I click on the envelope and click gwibber it's window won't raise23:29
RAOFalex_mayorga: Buggy behaivour isn't a good critique of the specification :)23:30
alex_mayorgaas I don't think I have the skill set to branch that right now and these being an ubuntu only thing I'm eying other distros, I guess it's easier23:31
alex_mayorgaRAOF, last time I checked I think plenty of people had spoken on their wiki, mail list, etc.23:34
alex_mayorgabut even when put against a clear user case they refuse to listen23:34
ZerI think you can turn off a lot of those notification popups23:34
ZerThat said, they are incredibly stupid. In Pidgin or whatnot, there should be a right click option "Notify me when this person is online"23:35
Zerand it should NEVER show me one in any other case23:35
alex_mayorgabut what do a user know I guess they're the usability masters for a reason23:35
Zer99% of people, you really don't care23:35
RAOFalex_mayorga: I suspect they'd say that anything that requires an action isn't a notification, so it's out of spec for notify-osd.23:36
ZerIt comes from the belief that 'more information is better'. One page versus five hundred page manual, some people will say the latter is better because it has more information. They should not be allowed near any GUI code :)23:36
WeatherGodZer, your suggetion sounds more like a wishlist item for Pidgin23:37
RAOFalex_mayorga: Can you remember the use-case you were thinking of?23:37
ZerPerhaps. All notifications are like that though. :)23:37
arandYou can do some fairly simple hacking of notify-osd http://mupuf.org/blog/article/22/ if you look around there's min_fade_time as well, still doesn't23:37
ZerPeople who think what their app has to say is so worthwhile that it should interrupt the flow of my work23:37
BUGabundoRD @TravisB: EVERYONE, IN AN HTML5-CAPABLE BROWSER, DO THIS!  http://www.chromeexperiments.com/detail/browser-pong/23:37
BUGabundoEVERYONE, IN AN HTML5-CAPABLE BROWSER, DO THIS!  http://www.chromeexperiments.com/detail/browser-pong/23:37
DanaGgaaack.  once is enough.  And lay off the cruise-control.  =þ23:38
BUGabundooops... sorry for the double post23:38
BUGabundoslow pc23:38
BUGabundoI wonder if it is the game :\23:38
alex_mayorgaRAOF, maybe is language barrier, but in Spanish or in my mind at least I get notified because I need to do something23:38
alex_mayorgaa fire alarm is a notification and you must act on it23:38
DanaGWould it kill them to make those #defines into gconf keys?23:39
WeatherGodheh... yeah, I am gonna want to walk away from the computer during a fire alarm23:39
DanaGI also wish they'd unbreak gnome power manager.23:40
Zeralex that is exactly right23:40
DanaGIt seems to be waiting for god-only-knows what, before actually changing brightness.23:40
alex_mayorgaBUGabundo, great now I lost my train of thinking :)23:40
arandDanaG: Not sure, I'm guessing it's less than trivial to migrate them though, having to read and store them, etc...23:40
WeatherGodthe brightness controls have always been messed up23:41
alex_mayorgaand they don't let me pick what I get notified of23:41
DanaGUsed to work fine before they tied it into notify-osd.23:41
RAOFDanaG: At least in part they're not gconf keys so that there's motivation to actually get the right behaviour.23:41
RAOFalex_mayorga: But notifications are transitory; if the notification means that you need to *do* something, and you miss it, what happens?23:41
DanaGI oughtta' try building g-p-m with those notify-osd patches disabled.23:41
alex_mayorgaRAOF, they get conveniently stored in their envelope icon23:42
WeatherGodRAOF: I think you hit the nail on the head23:42
RAOFalex_mayorga: So why does the notification itself need actions if they're always available from the envelope?23:42
alex_mayorgamy beef is that most of the times I'm there to respond so why should I wait for it to disappear and get "filed"23:43
ZerIt's to let you know the icon just appeared23:43
WeatherGodoh, so THAT'S what that envelope is for?23:43
RAOFalex_mayorga: A notification, in the sense of notify-osd (and notification-daemon, really) is “Hi!  This thing that you're hopefully interested in happened”23:43
ZerRAOF: Well, it needs an option "I'm not interested, go away and never come back" because developers think their apps matter more than they do23:43
ZerOn Windows nobody likes system tray icons that I've met23:44
Zerbecause things lurking there tend to harass you about this or that23:44
WeatherGodZer, that should be controled from the apps23:44
DanaGor if you're feeling angry, it's "**** off and die".23:44
DanaGAs I say about audio ads.23:44
ZerWeatherGod: Have you ever watched someone use a PC, and the popup comes up, and they struggle to figure out how to make it go away? Often those have a checkbox "Don't ask me again" but nobody even _reads_ that23:44
RAOFZer: That's an idea that I'd guess the DX team would be receptive to.  As long as you could implement the configuration in a sensible way.23:44
ZerThey just get irritated about it, day in and day out, for years23:44
WeatherGodfor Windows, you mean... yes, because it keeps coming back and requires my interaction to make it go away23:45
WeatherGodnotifications are tempoarary, though, and always goes away23:45
arandI wonder if it would be possible to allow a three-grade verbosity of notifications or something...23:46
ZerWell, most people use Windows, but the principle there is the same in most cases... if they queue up I will have a hard time seeing under them etc23:46
WeatherGodright, which is why they now disappear on hover23:46
ZerI'm not saying 'because it requires user interaction', it's that when people are using a program and something else pops up, whatever it is, the instant reaction is 'go away'23:46
RAOFarand: Absolutely; there are currently three grades of notification urgency - low, high, critical (IIRC).23:46
ZerNot 'ooh information'. It won't even get read23:46
WeatherGodI love it for Pidgin on my UNR23:47
WeatherGodI can still see messages to me, even though the chat window isn't in focus23:47
arandRAOF: Yea, true, but that only affect the ordering, right?23:47
ZerI am just saying, all notifications, individually, should be explicitly opt-in, unless it's something horribly, horribly important23:47
ZerFor instance, a checkbox 'Notify me when X logs in'. Never on by default23:48
ZerThat way, the person reading them actually expects them, and reacts positively since they asked for it23:48
WeatherGodZer, I can  set Pidgin to not notify me for all users23:48
RAOFarand: There's no reason why you couldn't have a system-wide setting to only show “high” & “critical” when you're busy; notify-osd currently does some of this, with presentation mode.23:48
WeatherGodyou are asking for a wishlist, I suggest you file it23:48
WeatherGodit is a good suggestion23:48
alex_mayorgaRAOF: yes they do but they chose the importance for me23:49
ZerHmm I'll go look. By the way, I noticed that the Ubuntu OpenSSL version is before that 'renegotiation bug' was discovered/patched/whatever. Does it still suffer from it?23:49
alex_mayorgait might be nonsensical, but a twitter mention is critical to me23:49
crimsunZer: more context, please. Which Ubuntu release?23:50
RAOFalex_mayorga: You could potentially have application-level options for that, but I think that use-case is basically a huge outlier.23:50
ZerAll of them, really23:50
arandRAOF: exactly... hm I didn't know about presentation mode, is that *supposed* to make it not brute-force harass fullscreen apps?23:50
RAOFarand: I'm not sure what you mean by that, but presentation mode should kick in when you're running a fullscreen app, yes.23:51
ZerActually I take that back, 10.04 has a recent one23:51
Zer9.10 is still back at g. alex: That's what I mean, it ought to, in all cases, be something you told it to notify you of23:51
dupondjedistro[Ubuntu "lucid" 10.04]23:51
dupondjehell yea :P23:52
crimsunZer: which CVE? 2009-4355?23:52
alex_mayorgaRAOF: but as I read the specification configurability is not even planned23:52
arandRAOF: Dunno if it's improved in KK/LL but way back here in jaunty, fullscreen apps jumps and twists whenever notifications kick in..23:52
RAOFalex_mayorga: The ability to, in some central place, set the importance of every notification you have ever seen?  No, I don't think that's likely to be implemented.23:53
alex_mayorgaI know caring about twitter mentions is nonsense, but that's how most people contact me these days23:53
Zercrimsun: I'm not a security researcher, so I don't know the specifics, but I remember reading on some site that there was an issue with renegotiation23:53
RAOFThe individual apps are perfectly capable of setting the importance of their notifications; that's where such options should go.23:53
WeatherGodZer, yeah, it was a MITM attack23:54
Zerand it was definitely more recent than 0.9.8g, though, that might be patched I suppose23:54
RAOFZer: I'd check the changelog; the security team is generally pretty good with stuff like that.23:54
ZerRAOF: That just adds another option. Then, on both the notify end and on the program end, the user has to specify an importance, instead of just 'tell me'23:54
WeatherGodZer, you could intercept a SSL connection and splice a relay to continue it or something like that23:55
RAOFZer: Both the notify end & program end?  I was thinking just on the program end.  But I agree; I don't think it's a particularly valuable option.23:55
alex_mayorgaRAOF, so for now I should be bugging gwibber and not notify-osd?23:55
ZerYeah I agree, programs ought to just behave23:56
RAOFalex_mayorga: I don't see why notify-osd would ever implement “let me override the importance for $THESE notifications”.23:56
RAOFZer: Right.23:56
WeatherGodanybody know where I should file a UNR-only bug?23:58
RAOFThere may be some situations where the application having an option to mark a particular class of notifications as “important” - for your pideon example, maybe there'd be an “important” modifier to the “show me when this user logs on” option, that'd set the priority and additionally stick a message in the messaging-menu, too.23:58
RAOFThat might be a bit ugly.23:59
ZerTo what end?23:59
ZerEither they need to know or they don't23:59
ZerCheckbox :)23:59
RAOFActually, the modifier would be “Show this even when I'm busy”.23:59

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