persiaslangasek: So, did you want the 29th 20:00 slot?  If not, I need to prep for it :)01:10
ScottKslangasek: texlive-latex-base is currently uninstallable due to depending on luatex.  luatex is a depends now.  It looks to me like it's either a MIR for luatex (at a glance I think all it's depends/rdepends are in Main) or rip all the luatex stuff out of texlive-latex-base.  I'd rather keep it so we can sync Tex stuff from Debian.  What do you think?01:48
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derknechti have a encrypted ubuntu 9.10 installed, and had problems with grub2, i am now using grub1 (from my gentoo installation)  and want to know how the kernel line in menu.lst should look like for booting a encrypted root file system (installed with alternate cd). Thanks a lot.13:50
persiaderknecht: You might get more support in #ubuntu : this isn't a support channel, and it's a weekend, when lots of people don't pay attention to this channel.13:52
derknechtpersia: k, thanks13:53
persiaderknecht: Good luck.13:54
derknechtpersia: solved :D14:08
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LLStarkshi, if i have a grievance about a dev decision regarding lucid, do i put it here or in ubuntu+1?16:12
ionEither, if you want nothing to happen. If you want someone to notice it, file a bug report or a blueprint, depending on the type of your wish.16:13
persiabug report is generally better for something described as a grievance (unless it is of the class of "Why isn't there a pony on the CD?".16:16
LLStarksit's about the new bottom-tabbed nautilus16:16
LLStarksit sucks16:17
persiaBut for "Why did my pony get taken away?", a bug report is definitely better.16:17
persiaThat's "Why did my pony get replaced by an aardvark?", and also better as a bug.16:17
LLStarksit is so annoying that i want to e-punch the person that signed off on it16:17
LLStarksalso, i'm unsure of the proper mailing list16:18
persiaRun `ubuntu-bug nautilus` on a system experiencing it.16:18
geserI got hit by this "feature" too on the first time: I opened several tabs till I noticed that they're at the bottom now16:18
persiaBugs written from the viewpoint of "How usability can be improved by restoring previous behaviour" without e-punches tend to get the best treatment.16:19
LLStarksdon't these sort of bugs have an omnipresence that every developer and their dog should already know about?16:20
LLStarksor are devs so foolish as to not see the repercussions of their enhancements?16:21
persiaAs you've seen, a developer has been hit with that bug.  Doesn't mean anyone filed it, or that anyone is working on reverting it.16:22
persiaMore than anything, these things need discussion.16:22
LLStarksas  far as i heard, the people that decided said the decision was closed.16:23
LLStarksand was an upstream thing16:24
persiaAh, if that's documented in an upstream bug, then, yeah, Ubuntu is likely to follow that.16:24
persiaYour best bet is to continue the discussion upstream.16:24
geserLLStarks: gnome bug #60602716:26
ubottuGnome bug 606027 in Tabs "Tabs should be displayed at the top" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60602716:26
sebnerpersia: that's not a bug that's a decision upstream made (I hope it'll be reverted though)17:28
persiasebner: A "bug" is how we describe anything that represents an atomic change to software.17:29
persiaIt's not like a crash, but I stand by my opinion that a bug tracker is the best place to discuss it.17:30
sebnerpersia: Sure, but wondering if you can declare something upstream decided as "bug"17:30
persiaWhy not, if I disagree.17:30
persiaDoesn't mean they have to fix it :)17:31
sebnerpersia: It's always a question of how much influence the users have and how stubborn upstream is17:31
persiaAnd the quality and strength of arguments for each viewpoint.17:32
hyperairif we're not reverting that stupid commit, i'm going to be maintaining a custom build of nautilus.17:32
hyperairand if more of this stupidity continues happening, i might just end up in gentoo ¬_¬17:33
sebnerpersia: haha, speaking of strength and quality ... "Too much stuff is already up there so let's put it down to the bottom" ..17:33
persiasebner: If you have a stronger argument (for either viewpoint), please add it to that bug.17:33
sebnerpersia: My opinion is already covered by the present comments and I think they are pretty valid17:34
persiaThere you go then :)17:34
hyperairpersia: so what happens when we all have very nice and valid comments, but upstream continues to be stubborn?17:35
hyperairs/comments/arguments against tabs-at-bottom/17:35
sebnerhyperair: accept it, change distro, custom nautilus build :P17:36
Ngwhat does changing distro have to do with what gnome upstream is doing?17:37
persiahyperair: If upstream will not change, there are three choices: 1) fork, 2) make a distro-level change 3) make a personal change.17:37
sebnerNg: Kubuntu ;)17:37
persiaI don't think it's worth changing distros just because you want to apply some patch.17:37
hyperairNg: i'm just saying, if more stupidity comes from multiple different apps, and i end up maintaining custom builds of several different apps, i might as well go gentoo where i have to compile every damn thing anyway.17:38
sebnerpersia: I didn't say anything about being worth it, it's just an option17:38
Nghyperair: sounds like a lot of effort just to move a tab bar ;)17:39
hyperairNg: well, GNOME upstream has been rather stupid lately.17:39
hyperairNg: you never know what they're going to do next.17:40
hyperairoh by the way, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/50907917:44
ubottuUbuntu bug 509079 in nautilus "nautilus has tabs on bottom" [Low,Triaged]17:44
hyperairwe've got an ubuntu bug as well.17:44
jcastroyou could probably maintain your own patchset like the nautilus-elementary folks do18:46
ScottKOn the off chance there's an archive admin with shell access around .... https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/armel/luatex/0.50.0-1 still needs promotion to Mail.19:56
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gavintlgoldcan someone explain to me what "sudo apt-get remove programname{p}" does? I'm not talking about apt-get remove in general but adding the {p} to the end of the name.22:46
gavintlgoldI'm assuming it removes instances of the app installed via the "make install" command after compiling. is this assumption correct?22:47
owen1my dell uses Elantech touchpad and I can't configure it. i contacted dell and they refered me to cananical. i didn't hear back from canonical.  who is the maintainer of elantech driver?22:48
owen1someone told me EEEpc also has it and it's possible to configure it.22:49
owen1can you guys direct me toward a solution?22:49
owen1here is a link to someone how wrote a driver -  http://arjan.opmeer.net/elantech/22:51
owen1it's noo complex for me to understand it though.22:51
RAOFgavintlgold: No, that's not correct.22:52
RAOFgavintlgold: There's no way (in general) to remove instances of an app installed via “make install”, and it's outside the scope of the package manager.22:53
RAOFgavintlgold: What {p} means is “purge” which, in addition to removing the package, also removes the (system wide) config files - ie: stuff in /etc.22:53
owen1how to find a maintainer of a touchpad driver?23:28
soreauHey I was wondering, where are the settings stored that gnome-window-properties sets?23:58
soreauI assume somewhere in ~/.gconf, but which key?23:58
soreauTrying to figure out how to change the titlebar doubleclick action without gnome-window-properties23:59

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