[00:00] <WeatherGod> yeah, there is definitely room for improvements, but right now, I am happy with the KISS approach
[00:01] <RAOF> The use case would be something like: I like to know when my friends come online, except when I'm busy.  I still need to know when my boss comes online, even when I'm busy.
[00:02] <WeatherGod> easier said then done
[00:03] <arand> WeatherGod: against specific packages? netbook-launcher ubuntu-netbook-remix ,etc
[00:03] <RAOF> I'm not sure that *I'd* find this a compelling option to add, but it's getting closer to something that might be actually useful :)
[00:03] <WeatherGod> arand, it is a problem with "Show Desktop", but I have found it only happening for UNR
[00:05] <arand> WeatherGod: hmm, might fall under nautilus, with a mention of UNR-only... I guess #ubuntu-bugs or whatever the unr # is would know best.
[00:05] <WeatherGod> ok, will do
[00:06] <alex_mayorga> I think there should be at least some form of notify me even when I'm full screen
[00:07] <alex_mayorga> with the advent of 16:9 I run everything I can full screen, but that doesn't mean I don't want to be "disturbed"
[00:08] <alex_mayorga> Why empathy's IRC window grows as I type?
[00:11] <WeatherGod> alex_mayorga, again, that is yet another possible use case... I know I certainly don't want notifications from Pidgin when I am doing a presentation or if I am showing something to my co-workers
[00:17] <BUGabundo> WeatherGod: set to Busy
[00:17] <BUGabundo> or offline
[00:18] <BUGabundo> away still shows you notifications, *if* directed at you
[00:19] <WeatherGod> BUGabundo, good to know, thanks
[00:24] <alex_mayorga> In my book presentation is the corner case, no the other way around
[00:25] <alex_mayorga> I haven't done a presentation since I graduated
[00:26] <alex_mayorga> I guess I don't have a glamorous job as most people :)
[00:26] <alex_mayorga> but I'm pretty sure statistics would back me up on that one
[00:27] <alex_mayorga> presentation is not as widespread as devs seem to believe
[00:27] <BUGabundo> WeatherGod: plus , if anything is FULL SCREEN the notifications are turned off
[00:28] <alex_mayorga> which on smallish notebooks a.k.a "netbooks" would be all the time
[00:33] <BUGabundo> eheh
[00:48] <DanaG> 16:9... bleh.
[00:49] <DanaG> damn lcd manufacturers.
[00:49] <DanaG> Let's go make their houses have 6-foot tall ceilings.  Hey look, no wasted space!
[00:51] <DanaG> heh, I put ubuntu on a netbook my dad is also using, and I told him that he can choose to boot Windows at the boot menu that'll come up.  He booted into ubuntu, and then wondered why it did that.... he said, "oh, this text thing came up, so I didn't read it."
[00:51] <DanaG> (probably also due to him not having his glasses on.)
[00:57] <bjsnider> something to read came on the screen, so naturally he didn't read it...
[00:57] <bjsnider> pc users are used to things being done for them
[00:58] <DanaG> he's also stubborn... I put Win7 on it, and he said, "I don't want Windows 7."  -- yet, he's never even TRIED win7.
[00:59] <Some_Person> Is it possible to install lucid onto an SD card?
[01:00] <Some_Person> DanaG: Heh, I know about stubborn dads. My dad was against Firefox for a couple of years. Despite never using it, he called it "Fireshit"
[01:00] <Some_Person> I had to hide ubuntu for a while too (using a floppy to boot it)
[01:01] <DanaG> he also got my mom a mac.... and hates using it every time he has to help her... yet insists on sticking with it.
[01:01] <DanaG> Well, at least my mom doesn't mind it so much -- though it took a year, and some new peripherals, to get there.
[01:02] <Some_Person> I happen to be a huge Mac fan -- my old middle school was full of them and kinda got me hooked, but sadly I haven't used one since
[01:02] <Some_Person> Too expensive for us
[01:04]  * DanaG hates the Apple window manager, and their mouse acceleration "curve" (curve?  hah!  It's more like a sharp  bend.)
[01:05] <Some_Person> Haven't noticed any "curve"
[01:06] <bjsnider> if you use a mapple you become a slave to steve mobs
[01:09] <Some_Person> So everyone who ever went to my middle school became a slave?
[01:10] <Some_Person> (and why did you put an "m" on "apple")?
[01:10] <bjsnider> Some_Person, you haven't been watching your simpsons...
[01:11] <Some_Person> I do watch the simpsons
[01:13] <WeatherGod> even I caught that one, and I have been out of the loop for a while
[01:13] <alex_mayorga> he used the m to avoid lawsuits and such ;)
[01:13] <Some_Person> oh, i just looked it up. i must have missed that episode :-(
[01:13] <WeatherGod> no, I tried to convince my mother to try Ubuntu for her new computer, telling her that it is more like WinXP and Win7 (she hates changes)
[01:14] <WeatherGod> she refused, and kept bungling the pronounciation
[01:14] <WeatherGod> "UBoxee?"
[01:14] <Some_Person> lol, that's the worst i've heard
[01:15] <WeatherGod> she also calls Firefox "FoxFire"
[01:16] <WeatherGod> at least I was able to switch her to that by redirecting her Comcast shortcut
[01:16] <WeatherGod> and importing her favorites, she never knew the difference
[01:17] <WeatherGod> anyway, she decided to go with Win7 because her job was going to have training sessions for Win7 and was switching to it
[01:17] <WeatherGod> I don't know how she has taken to the new Office, though
[01:18] <WeatherGod> but she was willing to try OpenOffice
[01:18] <alex_mayorga> WeatherGod: how old is she?
[01:18] <WeatherGod> 55-ish
[01:18] <alex_mayorga> I haven't been able to convert my mom-in-law as there's no Cubis for ubuntu
[01:19] <WeatherGod> this is the person who kept our whole family on AOL during that whole "America Offline" deal a long time ago because she couldn't use anything else
[01:19] <WeatherGod> Cubis?
[01:20] <alex_mayorga> http://www.freshgames.com/games/cubis2
[01:20] <alex_mayorga> haven't found an open clone yet
[01:20] <WeatherGod> oy
[01:20] <WeatherGod> 300 levels of that?
[01:21] <WeatherGod> then again, I did get a little addicted to frozenbubble
[01:22] <WeatherGod> alex_mayorga, I take it doesn't work in Wine?
[01:22] <alex_mayorga> haven't tried lately, but it didn't on karmic
[01:23] <WeatherGod> probably use more recent DirectX stuff, just for kicks
[01:23] <WeatherGod> actually, no, looks like the requirement is DX7
[01:23] <WeatherGod> go figure
[01:37] <Some_Person> anyway, do you think I could install lucid to an SD card?
[01:37] <crimsun> sure, but whether that's crackful is debatable.
[01:39] <WeatherGod> wouldn't that depend on the BIOS?
[01:45] <DanaG> I can install to SDHC card, but the initramfs is missing the sdhc controller drivers!
[01:45] <crimsun> DanaG: so add them to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
[01:45] <DanaG> yeah, but I mean, it'd be nice to have it there out-of-the-box.
[01:46] <DanaG> My sd card reader also didn't claim DMA support; I had to force-enable it.
[01:46] <crimsun> so file bugs against linux.
[01:48] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/422986
[01:49] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/268863
[01:52] <crimsun> 422986 triaged.
[01:53] <DanaG> I might as well copy my comment from the latter into the former.
[01:55] <DanaG> cool, thanks.  Tweaked my wording a bit, as well.
[05:24] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/496994
[05:25] <DanaG> Brightness doesn't change.
[05:55] <DanaG> just tried gnome-shell on the netbook.
[05:55] <DanaG> Window manager warning: Log level 16: Could not load library [/usr/lib/mutter/plugins/libgnome-shell.so (libmozjs.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)]
[05:59] <DanaG> phail.
[06:02] <DanaG> grr.
[06:04] <RAOF> DanaG: With the Lucid packages?  That's awkward; it works for me, and I spent some time fixing gjs so that shell would work.
[06:04] <DanaG> Weird.
[06:04] <DanaG> Maybe because I have ubuntu-mozilla-daily?
[06:05] <RAOF> Yes, that's the problem.  But I thought I'd fixed it so that gnome-shell simply wouldn't install if you didn't have the right version of mozilla.
[06:05] <DanaG> And it's a badly-worded error message too, then. =þ
[06:05] <RAOF> What does “apt-cache policy xulrunner-1.9.1” return?
[06:06] <DanaG> Anyway... I can't give up ubuntu-mozilla-daily until I can get firefox-3.6 from non-ppa.
[06:06] <DanaG>  *** 1.9.1.8~hg20100122r26732+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1 0
[06:06] <RAOF> Oh.  ARSE!
[06:06] <DanaG> okay, so I can downgrade xulrunner, at least.
[06:06] <RAOF> And I guess that you've got libgjs0 version 0.4-4ubuntu3 installed?
[06:07] <DanaG> yup.
[06:07] <RAOF> DanaG: Not without breaking firefox, I think.
[06:07] <RAOF> Poot.  1.9.1.8~ < 1.9.1.8.
[06:07] <DanaG> 3.6 is 1.9.2, isn't it?
[06:07] <DanaG> yay, downgrading 1.9.1 worked.
[06:07] <DanaG> okay, that not-needing-to-click-on-the-menu thing is weird.
[06:08] <DanaG> And there's this mysterious thing that shows what I'm currently running... but makes me think it should be a launcher or a task-switcher like the netbook thingy.
[06:08] <RAOF> Maybe.  I know that we're planning to move away from xulrunner as a separate package for Firefox, so if FF 3.6 works while you've got xulrunner-1.9.1 installed, that's obviously happened.
[06:08] <DanaG> x-nautilus-desktop.  nice.
[06:08] <lolnic_> Hi, how do i change the program gdm uses to hibernate?
[06:09] <lolnic_> if i can
[06:09] <DanaG> also weird: activating the activities thing brings up a window I thought was gone.
[06:09] <DanaG> hmm, alt+tab-tab... the switcher goes away.
[06:09] <DanaG> Also weird.
[06:10] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/Screenshot-gnomeshell.png
[06:13] <DanaG> hmm, I hit alt-f2, enter Pictures/  -- it tries to execute the directory.
[06:13] <DanaG> =þ
[06:13] <RAOF> That's a gentle reminder that you should be using GNOME Do.
[06:16] <DanaG> hmm, how to I tell gnome-shell to go away and give me the old panel back?
[06:19] <RAOF> compiz --replace
[06:19] <DanaG> Didn't give me back my panel.  :(
[06:19] <RAOF> gnome-panel, then :)
[06:19] <RAOF> If you're not running Do, you may need to switch to a VT to run that, I guess.
[06:20] <DanaG> or ssh.
[06:20] <RAOF> Also possible.
[06:21] <DanaG> heh, by adding an avahi service, I was able to make my laptop appear as "Mac Server" instead of "PC Server" on my mom's imac.
[06:22] <DanaG> astebinit /etc/avahi/services/samba.service
[06:22] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f49ef8c61
[06:34] <DanaG> "usplash main process terminated with status 2"
[06:35] <DanaG> lolwut?  usplash?  why?
[06:41] <RAOF> You can still have usplash installed if you try.
[06:41] <DanaG> I didn't try, though.
[06:41] <DanaG> And the system keeps failing to reboot.
[06:42] <DanaG> Sits there with plymouth doing nothing -- and I have even tweaked it to use spinfinity.
[06:42] <DanaG> Spinfinity, minus "infinity" symbol, would be nice.
[06:42] <DanaG> Even has a progress bar.
[07:02] <voidmage> i'm having this weird thing where when i hit play/pause, previous track, next track, or stop, the mouse cursor jumps to the top of the screen
[07:02] <voidmage> i couldn't find if this is happening to other people or whether it's a keyboard-specific or some X related thing
[08:01] <alkisg> In https://launchpad.net/~freenx-team/+archive/ppa I'm not seeing freenx server yet, will there be a version for Lucid or only neatx will be available?
[08:53] <BUGabundo_remote> morning
[09:24] <cwillu> BUGabundo_remote, morning
[09:30] <BUGabundo_remote> olá cwillu
[09:30] <cwillu> I got three straws with my mcdonalds
[09:31] <cwillu> what package to I file that against?
[09:50] <EmperiuM> hello, good mornig ppl
[09:53] <BUGabundo_remote> welcome Em
[09:53] <BUGabundo_remote> welcome EmperiuM
[09:54] <emperium> ehehe
[09:54] <emperium> estás em todas
[10:04] <BUGabundo_remote> emperium: ehe yeah I try to. that's the _problem_ in being an Ubuntu Member :p
[10:04] <BUGabundo_remote> emperium: running lucid? I though you were in karmic
[10:05] <emperium> last night I was a karmic user, after the system update it became like this :(
[10:07] <emperium> I think it's not Lucid that is runnig, I think that it's a beta version of something
[10:07] <emperium> grub or 9.1x
[10:08] <cwillu> emperium, are you accepting strange source.list files from strangers?
[10:08] <emperium> nop
[10:09] <emperium> just have ubuntu and the Wine
[10:09] <emperium> in the list of trust sources
[10:09] <BUGabundo_remote> emperium: $ pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list
[10:10] <emperium> just type that? the Karmic wont boot, just have command line
[10:10] <BUGabundo_remote> ahh
[10:10] <BUGabundo_remote> you are in the recovery console then
[10:11] <cwillu> emperium, grub command line or a console?
[10:11] <emperium> i think so
[10:11] <BUGabundo_remote> bad kernel upgrade / KMS I guess
[10:11] <cwillu> did you get any boot messages, or it just the grub prompt?
[10:11] <emperium> just grub prompt
[10:11] <BUGabundo_remote> you should try #ubuntu since +1 is aimed at lucid user
[10:11] <emperium> i will take a pic
[10:11] <cwillu> if it's the grub prompt, you can still boot, although I'm not clear on the details
[10:12] <BUGabundo_remote> I guess a update-grub from a live cd, chrooted would fix it
[10:12] <cwillu> emperium, tab completion should work:  "initrd init<tab>" <- choose a particular one that you know boots
[10:12] <emperium> went I type boot it says "no loadede kernel"
[10:12] <cwillu> and then "linux vmlinuz<tab>" same one
[10:12] <cwillu> emperium, do what I say, not what you think I'm going to say :p
[10:12] <cwillu> you need to load the initrd image, and then the kernel image, before you can boot :)
[10:13] <cwillu> if tab completion doesn't work, try "initrd /<tab>" or "initrd /boot/<tab>"
[10:14] <emperium> yes, it list something
[10:14] <cwillu> choose one, probably the latest or second latest
[10:14] <cwillu> you can still you tab to complete once you've typed the next bit
[10:18] <emperium> it says "yyou need to load tge kernel first"
[10:18] <emperium> I typed initr /boot/System.map-2.6.31--generic4
[10:18] <emperium> I typed initr /boot/System.map-2.6.31-generic4
[10:19] <emperium> I typed initr /boot/System.map-2.6.31-generic
[10:19] <emperium> [I forgot to tell that I'm a n0ob in linux ]
[10:24] <cwillu> initrd
[10:24] <cwillu> might need to do "linux ..." first, although I thought I had it right
[10:35] <Lord-Readman> Hello, I am finding ext4 performance on Ubuntu 10.04 alpha2 really really slow
[10:35] <Lord-Readman> does anyone know how I can fix it?
[10:36] <cwillu> first impression is that you may be jumping to conclusions;  can you give the specific symptoms you're seeing, as well as any relevant details (if it was an ext3 -> ext4 conversion, fs options, etc)
[10:36] <cwillu> haven't noticed anything myself
[10:37] <Lord-Readman> well I really doubt Ubuntu 10.04 will hit 10 second boot on the dell mini with the 2.6.32 kernal
[10:37] <Lord-Readman> I have searched all over google, and ex4 performance took a huge hit to make less chance of dataloss
[10:39] <cwillu> Lord-Readman, talk symptoms you're seeing, not stuff repeated from blogs and mailing lists;  yes, write barriers are there, no, they're not going to be responsible for ubuntu becoming really really slow, unless you're definition of really really slow consists of a 10% throughput loss on benchmarks :p
[10:39] <Lord-Readman> I am seeing really slow postgre database performance as I was testing out OpenERP
[10:40] <Lord-Readman> further searches pointed me to ext4 in the 2.6.32 kernal
[10:40] <cwillu> now we're getting somewhere :)
[10:40] <BUGabundo_remote> FYI (10:35:34 AM) asac_: i think today we will announce multisearch II ;)
[10:40] <BUGabundo_remote> so get your Firefox's ready
[10:40] <cwillu> Lord-Readman, can you be more specific still?
[10:41] <Lord-Readman> when updating product stock for 2000 items, it used to be more or less instant
[10:41] <Lord-Readman> now there is a good 7-10second lag
[10:41] <Lord-Readman> Even recompiled from source to make sure everything went okay.
[10:41] <cwillu> what sort of queries does that involve?  just a straight table with no indexes or procedures?
[10:42] <cwillu> and is this a fresh install/fresh file system, or a conversion/upgrade?
[10:42] <Lord-Readman> not sure exactly, just know its setup the same as on 9.10 but mega slow on 10.04a2
[10:42] <Lord-Readman> fresh install
[10:42] <Lord-Readman> backed up and imported data
[10:43] <Lord-Readman> same as the move from 8.04 to 9.10
[10:43] <cwillu> is this your own database, or a benchmark/example code?
[10:43] <Lord-Readman> own company database
[10:43] <cwillu> that's the sort of thing I'd expect to see if each item was committed separately
[10:46] <Lord-Readman> well i'll just wait on, the only thing i can do is let people know
[10:46] <Lord-Readman> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ext4_then_now&num=1 is what I was reading, looks scary and hope things get better towards release time i suppose
[10:47] <cwillu> Lord-Readman, the scary thing is that the old behaviour was incorrect, meaning that an fsync didn't necessarily get to the disk before completion (which is a Bad Thing for a database)
[10:47] <cwillu> most of the hits on google describe how to set it to the ext3 setting via disabling barriers
[10:48] <cwillu> Lord-Readman, it's not an ubuntu thing though.  You'll probably get better advice asking in postgres' channel
[10:49] <Lord-Readman> running the default benchmark for postgre in 9.10 gives 1400 transactions per second, in the alpha it gives me 90
[10:49] <Lord-Readman> ok
[10:49] <Lord-Readman> il go see what they say
[10:49] <Lord-Readman> thanks
[10:49] <cwillu> I just asked in #postgres
[10:49] <Lord-Readman> what they say?
[10:49] <cwillu> nothing yet :p
[10:50] <Lord-Readman> ok, many thanks
[10:50] <Lord-Readman> il wait for an answer
[10:52] <emperium> I cant make it boot, so I'll do a clean installation
[10:52] <emperium> :)
[10:55] <cwillu> """On the other, anyone who believed the fictitious numbers before is going to be in a rude surprise and think there's a massive regression here. There's some potential for this to show PostgreSQL in a bad light, when people discover they really only can get ~100 commits/second out of cheap hard drives and assume the database is to blame. Interesting times. """
[10:55] <cwillu> from the postgres mailing list
[11:01] <BUGabundo_remote> emperium: clean install is the last resort
[11:02] <BUGabundo_remote> a simple live session, chrooting to your install will fix that
[11:02] <emperium> I know, but as you now i noob, and I use the wubi to istall this :=)
[11:04] <cwillu> ugh
[11:04] <cwillu> there is a time and a place for wubi.  Someday I'll discover where and when that is :p
[11:10] <BUGabundo_remote> ahhhh wubi
[11:10] <BUGabundo_remote> that explains it
[11:11] <BUGabundo_remote> cwillu: wubi was great in 8.04/.10
[11:11] <BUGabundo_remote> but in 9.10 is very much broken, when running kernel upgrades
[11:11] <cwillu> wubi was never great, don't lie :p
[11:11] <BUGabundo_remote> emperium: checkout launchpad. there's a bug and a workaround for _your_ problem
[11:11] <BUGabundo_remote> cwillu: LIES LIES ... it was great!
[11:12] <BUGabundo_remote> helped A LOT users, easing the install without having to make partitions
[11:12]  * cwillu greps for the earliest reference to BUGabundo in his xchat
[11:12] <BUGabundo_remote> 2007 ?
[11:12] <cwillu> we've had an autopartitioner since 5.04
[11:12] <cwillu> you don't have to think about partitions if you don't want to :p
[11:12] <BUGabundo_remote> cwillu: data loss, does it mean anything to you?
[11:13] <cwillu> BUGabundo_remote, yes, yes it does.  That's why I don't use wubi :p
[11:13] <BUGabundo_remote> ahahaha
[11:13] <BUGabundo_remote> cwillu: grep LP instead for emperium bug
[11:13]  * cwillu huggles BUGabundo_remote
[11:13]  * BUGabundo_remote picks up cwillu poking stick
[11:15] <BUGabundo_remote> LOLOLOL
[11:15] <BUGabundo_remote> running pidgin in gdb
[11:16] <BUGabundo_remote> when it breaks, I type 'c', and it carries on
[11:16] <BUGabundo_remote> cool
[11:57] <indus> hi
[11:57] <indus> is the fglrx working yet on lucid?
[12:13] <indus> is the fglrx working yet on lucid?
[13:02] <indus> is the fglrx working yet on lucid?
[13:02] <indus> ati proprietary i mean
[13:02] <indus> any testing ppa 's?
[13:03] <cwillu> indus, if you fill my scrollback with that question, will you stop asking? :p
[13:04] <cwillu> indus, the lack of response means nobody here knows; stay in the channel and the next person to see the question who knows will answer
[13:05] <cwillu> that said, fglrx depends entirely on a working version being released, and they're somewhat notorious for not keeping up with xorg
[13:06] <indus> cwillu, hi
[13:06] <cwillu> <3
[13:06] <indus> cwillu, wait i tryto comprehend what you said :)
[13:07] <cwillu> indus, you keep asking "are we there yet?"
[13:07] <indus> cwillu, yea
[13:07] <indus> cwillu, in alpha 2 it isnt i read, but new catalyst is due this week
[13:07] <indus> so iam hopeful
[13:08] <indus> cwillu, also, dont want to get into the ati/nvidia debate
[13:08] <cwillu> so watch the catalyst newsfeed, it'll show up there first :p
[13:08] <cwillu> indus, so use the open driver
[13:08] <indus> cwillu, how is lucid otherwise
[13:08] <indus> cwillu, i have radeaon 4850 so no luck
[13:09] <indus> not sure if radeon HD driver is ready yet, i check wiki but it says no, maybe the xorg edgers ppa is ready?
[13:09] <indus> cwillu, happy new year also :D
[13:09] <indus> iam so itching to try the latest, but maybe should wait till next month
[13:10] <indus> cwillu, one question , is it ati's work to make driver work with xorg or is it ubuntu's job
[13:10] <cwillu> the proprietary driver ("fglrx") is completely and utterly ati's job.  We can'
[13:11] <cwillu> We can't do anything except copy it into our repository and forward debugging information, and we really hate to do that when we could instead be working on the open driver
[13:11] <indus> i have catalyst 9.12
[13:11] <cwillu> utterly irrelevant :p
[13:11] <indus> its good but has some flickering
[13:12] <indus> but this argument is same as, go ask your motherboard maker for drivers, we cant help
[13:12] <cwillu> most motherboards are very well supported though
[13:12] <indus> but its all reverse engineered now isnt it, so ubuntu works on almost all hardware
[13:12] <cwillu> the only exception is via video chipsets
[13:13] <indus> so why the attitude with graphics cards
[13:13] <cwillu> indus, because everything else gets proper support from the vendors
[13:13] <indus> cwillu, really? where. try webcams
[13:13] <cwillu> whereas the video card vendors try to hide stuff in their drivers
[13:13] <indus> cwillu, is mobo specs open?
[13:13] <cwillu> indus, webcams are completely unrelated to mobo's
[13:14] <indus> hmm never mind webcams
[13:14] <cwillu> usb devices have the same general problems, but on the other hand, far more usb devices work out of the box with no additional drivers needed than on windows
[13:14] <indus> just wondering why all mobos work fine with network ,sound etc
[13:14] <indus> only realtek drivers and specs are open as far as i know
[13:14] <cwillu> indus, because they are all supported by the chipset vendors
[13:14] <indus> but nvidia chipsets work fine too
[13:15] <indus> nvidia is not open the nforce ones
[13:15] <indus> the forcedeth drivers are reverse engineered for networking to work
[13:15] <cwillu> lkml is a good place to read about this
[13:15] <indus> lkml
[13:15] <indus> ok link please
[13:15] <cwillu> type it into firefox and hit enter
[13:15] <indus> anyways, last question
[13:16] <indus> is the desktop looking same or a little different
[13:16] <indus> i only upgrade for looks , honest
[13:16] <indus> ever since dapper , i see the same installation screens
[13:17] <indus> anyways, i think i ll download install on a separate partition today
[13:17] <cwillu> ethernet drivers aren't any more complicated really than basic video support on a video card;  the acceleration used on a video card is way harder to reverse engineer
[13:17] <indus> cwillu, argumentative :)
[13:17] <cwillu> in general, most hardware _is_ supported to some extent by the chipset manufacturers
[13:17] <indus> cwillu, but nvm
[13:17] <cwillu> indus, I'm trying :p
[13:17] <indus> :)
[13:17] <indus> ok thanks though, that mobo question plagues me no end
[13:17] <indus> i will read more about it
[13:18] <cwillu> I can't remember the last time I had somethign on a mobo not work properly out of the box
[13:18]  * indus goes for a smoke
[13:18] <cwillu> you haven't yet specified an actual problem :p
[13:18] <indus> cwillu, just the ati one, cant plunge because need 3d
[13:18] <indus> and free drivers dont yet support the 4000 series
[13:19] <cwillu> indus, you should probably wait for the official ubuntu release, or at least a beta
[13:19] <indus> cwillu, no sorry no patience for that :D
[13:19] <indus> ill wait till alpha 3
[13:19] <cwillu> indus, funny you should say that :p
[13:19] <indus> or until it looks different
[13:19] <indus> ok gtg
[13:19] <indus> laters
[13:20] <cwillu> my argumentative pose is reflective of my impatience with you :p
[13:20]  * cwillu upgrades to indus alpha 0.94
[13:20] <cwillu> bah, segfault
[13:33] <bitsfritz> Hello alltogether, I'm not familiar using IRC so please be patient with faults I might do ;o))
[13:34] <yofel> !hi | bitsfritz
[13:35] <bitsfritz> I get troubles with xmodmap since Ubuntu 8.04 or 8.10 which I found several related bugs, but no enlighting answers or fixing. This is still present in lucid lynx alpha - Is this the right place to ask?
[13:36] <Lord-Readman> ask and someone might be able to help out
[13:36] <cwillu> bitsfritz, checking and filing bugs on launchpad is probably the most useful thing;  there's often good workarounds available, and that's the best place for information to be documented
[13:37] <cwillu> I can't speak for all of us, but most of my replies consist of checking launchpad for relevant bugs, and linking the asker to them;  if you can do that yourself, then that's even better :)
[13:37] <cwillu> In that context, discussion here is useful to find people to duplicate/test/confirm/whatever
[13:37] <BUGabundo_remote> cwillu: LP and upstream
[13:37] <cwillu> bitsfritz, LP and upstream :p
[13:38]  * BUGabundo_remote returns to hiding with a smile in its face
[13:38]  * cwillu is lazy, and strongly encourages all projects everywhere to use launchpad :p
[13:44] <bitsfritz> I visited Launchpad and all related issues told me something like: "good point - you'r great!". I dont't wo
[13:44] <bitsfritz> want to add one more of those
[13:45] <bitsfritz> ;o))
[13:55] <cwillu> bitsfritz, reading all the comments is also good :)
[13:56] <cwillu> but yes, if it's already been reported, and you're sure its the same issue, then feel free to click the "This bug affects me too" and "subscribe me" without adding a "me too" comment :)
[13:57] <bitsfritz> I've put the list of bugs I found here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/362608/
[13:57] <bitsfritz> maybe this helps. But looking at me writing this, I think one more whicht collects them all might be a good Idea ;o))
[13:57] <cwillu> not necessarily, if they're not actually duplicates, then that just _really_ confuses things for the developers
[13:58] <cwillu> bitsfritz, in your own words, what's the behaviour you're seeing?
[13:59] <bitsfritz> In my words: xmodmap doesn't map the keybord in an usable way.
[13:59] <cwillu> more specific
[14:00] <cwillu> what makes it unusable?
[14:01] <BluesKaj> hiyas
[14:02] <BUGabundo_remote> hey BluesKaj
[14:02] <BluesKaj> hi BUGabundo_remote
[14:02] <bitsfritz> I've made an xmodmapfile for my germa laptop keybord which enhances some missing keys. That works on every linux I've tried except ubuntu since al least 8.10
[14:03] <cwillu> bitsfritz, have you tried a recent'ish debian?
[14:03] <cwillu> (alternatively, what recent distros work fine?)
[14:04] <bitsfritz> The last I tried was a knoppix 6.x and a recent grml both work fine
[14:04] <cwillu> no idea what their x looks like
[14:05] <cwillu> care to try a fedora livecd?  my first reflex is that this is an xorg auto-detection/related thingie, but I"m not really up to speed on the evdev/input-framework stuff
[14:05] <cwillu> it'd be interesting to find another distro with the same problem
[14:09] <bitsfritz> cwillu, as I told it might be a good Idea to setup a new bug, for the mentioned ones show symptoms of what I see, but don't tell the whole story - so it won't be a duplikate
[14:09] <cwillu> fair enough, although the results of any experiments are prime details to include on such a bug report :)
[14:18] <bitsfritz> Yes this is what I think of. Give me some time to collect the information and provide them in a usable way.
[14:18] <bitsfritz> Will You lurk around here a later time so that I can anounce you the bug number?
[14:19] <cwillu> I'm always in channel, although I'm going to be afk for about a day or so.  There should be lots of other people active though, especially given a nice monday morning :)
[14:19] <cwillu> #ubuntu-bugs may also be apropos, given that this is an issue you've seen on previous releases (although myself I'd put the focus on fixing thing for the next release;  I'm just an interested by-stander though, so don't take that as official :p)
[14:22] <_stink_> hey folks.  just installed lucid 64 bit and upgraded stuff as normal.  now as i go to install the package ldm-server (among other things), it seems to be working fine until apt gets to the line "Setting up ldm-server... (2:2.0.53-0ubuntu1)", then it sits essentially forever.  the latest line in /var/log/dpkg.log is "... status half-configured ldm-server 2:2.0.53-0ubuntu1", and no more activity.  i know others may not have tr
[14:23] <bitsfritz> I'd like to see fixed that for the next release which is LTS.
[14:26] <alkisg> _stink_: if you restart openbsd-inetd from another terminal, it continues
[14:26] <_stink_> alkisg: :D good seeing you here!
[14:26] <alkisg> :)
[14:26] <_stink_> alkisg: i see.  this was known?
[14:27] <alkisg> _stink_: I'm not sure. I experienced it today, but I don't think there's a bug report filed for it
[14:27] <alkisg> It may have to do with upstart-ifying openbsd-inetd
[14:28] <_stink_> alkisg: ok.  i also tried ctrl-c'ing it, and apt seems to have smartly noticed and recovered at the end.
[14:45] <coz_> things seems to be working well so far :)   just did update after a week of the system being down :)
[14:48] <BluesKaj> I have dirs dying when i try to open them in dolphin or konq ...it's getting tiresome :P
[15:34] <cjohnston> Interested in learning about how to do development work in Ubuntu? Join in on the Ubuntu Developer Week to learn! Ubuntu Developer Week is starting in approx. 30 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat   - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek for more info
[15:48] <dirty> anyone help me with hotsync with palm pre
[15:58] <gnomefreak> anyone know what folder/file that holds deams that are loaded by default
[15:58] <cwillu> deams
[15:58] <cwillu> ?
[15:58] <gnomefreak> sorry deamons
[15:58] <cwillu> gnome daemons, or system?
[15:58] <gnomefreak> daemons
[15:58] <cwillu> /etc/init is where /etc/init.d/ lives as upstart jobs now
[15:58] <gnomefreak> better yet system
[15:59] <gnomefreak> thanks
[15:59] <cwillu> /etc/init/tty1 is a good example of the bare minimum
[15:59] <cwillu> most of the converted jobs aren't exactly as simple as they could be :p
[16:00] <gnomefreak> cwillu: /etc/init/tty1 is empty
[16:00] <cwillu> tty1.conf, sorry
[16:00] <cwillu> (tty1 doesn't exist)
[16:01] <gnomefreak> there used to be a file for daemons (a single file)
[16:01] <cwillu> mm?
[16:01] <cwillu> nope, although you were probably thinking of inittab
[16:01] <gnomefreak> i dont recall the file its been a while
[16:01] <cwillu> or you mean network daemons?
[16:02] <cwillu> name a couple daemons, to make sure we're talking about the same thing
[16:03] <gnomefreak> udev dbus cron wicd
[16:03] <gnomefreak> ect...
[16:04] <cwillu> those were always /etc/init.d/ scripts, with symlinks into /etc/rc123.d/
[16:04] <gnomefreak> averent(spelling)
[16:04] <cwillu> don't recall that they were ever defined in a single file
[16:04] <gnomefreak> that is empty as well :)
[16:05] <cwillu> well, what _do_ you have in /etc/init?
[16:05] <gnomefreak> way too many things loading at start up
[16:05] <gnomefreak> alot
[16:07] <gnomefreak> cwillu: would renaming files stop them from loading or will it just spawn another file
[16:07] <cwillu> gnomefreak, only .conf files will be executed
[16:07] <cwillu> but renaming it while keeping the .conf won't change anything, it'll still run
[16:08] <gnomefreak> cwillu: there doesnt seem like there is a way in the file to stop it from loading on startup without clearing the file
[16:09] <gnomefreak> example sudo gedit avahi-daemon.conf is a simple script however there doesnt seem to ba anything to stop it
[16:09] <cwillu> commenting out the "start" line should do it, assuming that it's not explicitly started by another job, which it shouldn't
[16:09] <gnomefreak> start on (filesystem and started dbus)
[16:09] <gnomefreak> stop on stopping dbus
[16:09] <cwillu> on the other hand, I can assure you that avahi-daemon isn't what's holding up your boot :p
[16:10] <gnomefreak> cwillu: correct however i dont need it
[16:10] <cwillu> avahi-daemon itself will pay attention to /etc/defaults/avahi*
[16:11] <cwillu> but in general, renaming the file to something that doesn't end in .conf, or commenting out the start line, or removing the package, all of these are viable options :p
[16:11] <cwillu> if you don't need it, you should probably just remove it
[16:13] <gnomefreak> cwillu: thnaks trying to remove them now
[16:13] <cwillu> (meant to remove the packages)
[16:14] <cwillu> not quite sure how the "config files on package upgrade" thing is generally handled with upstart jobs
[16:15] <gnomefreak> cwillu: i am removing packages it just i wish some would remove only themselves example: bluetooth IIRC removes alot of gnome packages
[16:16] <gnomefreak> bluetooth wants to remove ubuntu-standard
[16:19] <duffydack> fglrx still broken
[17:24] <komputes> Gnome Nautilus - Can't see full path of files, because there is no longer a "Pencil Icon"
[17:24] <komputes> Anyone else using Lucid having issues telling what path they are in because of this?
[17:28] <coz_> mm let me check
[17:30] <coz_> komputes,  same here apparenlty
[17:30] <komputes> coz_: I'm thinking of reporting this, let me check if someone has
[17:33] <BUGabundo_remote> komputes: press ctrl+l
[17:33] <alkisg> On a newly installed system I have LANG=el_US.utf8 instead of el_US.UTF-8, and that breaks a lot of programs. Is this some transitional phase? Which of the two is the correct one?
[17:33] <coz_> there you go
[17:34] <komputes> BUGabundo_remote: that does nothing for me, still in icon view, still no path bar
[17:34] <BUGabundo_remote> wfm
[17:34] <BUGabundo_remote> I can after that see/edit the path
[17:34] <BUGabundo_remote> its 'l' as in lol
[17:34] <komputes> that's odd
[17:35] <komputes> ok
[17:35] <BUGabundo_remote> no CAPS i' from I'am
[17:36] <komputes> BUGabundo_remote: bizarre they would put that in the Go menu, I was expecting it under View
[17:36] <komputes> well I feel less bad since the feature is still there :D thanks BUGabundo_remote
[17:49] <BUGabundo_remote> np
[19:46] <nperry> Finally fixed my netbook so can abuse works wifi when the boss isn't in
[20:05] <bjsnider> well, that's good. that's certainly what ubuntu is all about
[21:05] <prefrontal> in lucid after boot I have to run ifup eth0 and also start kdm, otherwise I don't get network or a display manager
[21:08] <yofel> prefrontal: is your system up to date? We did have issues with kdm, but that was fixed
[21:10] <prefrontal> yes i just did a do-release-upgrade
[21:10] <prefrontal> do you think the kdm issue could be a runlevel issue?
[21:11] <yofel> well, not runlevel, upstart is different
[21:11] <prefrontal> well once i run them everything works fine, so it seems to point at a common cause
[21:11] <prefrontal> startup related
[21:12] <yofel> prefrontal: open /etc/init/kdm.conf in an editor and look at the 'start on' expression that states the requirements for kdm to run on boot
[21:13] <prefrontal> filesystem, hal, tty-device-added, graphics-device-added
[21:13] <yofel> ok, your system is NOT up-to-date
[21:13] <prefrontal> http://pastebin.ca/raw/1765695
[21:13] <yofel> the hal depens was removed a while ago, (that was the issue that was fixed)
[21:13] <prefrontal> hmm, but the only out of date packages i have right now are kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts libplot2c2 libpng12-0 libpng12-dev libpstoedit0c2a pstoedit python-launchpadlib rsync
[21:14] <yofel> prefrontal: here's mine: http://yofel.pastebin.com/f73cde525
[21:16] <prefrontal> it must be a bug in the kdm package. perhaps it is not overwriting kdm.conf on upgrade
[21:17] <prefrontal> i just downloaded the latest kdm package and it contains the kdm.conf that you have
[21:18] <prefrontal> ohh... hmm. dist-upgrade suggests i need a new kdm
[21:18] <prefrontal> ok, brb:)
[21:25] <prefrontal> yofel, that fixed my kdm, thanks
[21:25] <yofel> yw
[21:25] <prefrontal> i still have a network issue. i get an ip address, nfs mounts work, nis login works, i can ssh to this box, but i can't get online. i have to run ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0, then it works
[21:26] <yofel> o.O
[21:26] <yofel> does 'ping google.com' work in a terminal?
[21:26] <prefrontal> no
[21:26] <yofel> could be a DNS issue
[21:26] <prefrontal> host unreachable
[21:27] <prefrontal> yes i think it is some kind of dns issue, since the ip for google works
[21:27] <prefrontal> but then, why does it work after i bring the network interace down and then back up again?
[21:28] <yofel> prefrontal: you should check the contents of /etc/resolv.conf , NM should add the DNS ips there
[21:29] <prefrontal> nameserver in resolv.conf is the same as dns-nameservers in /etc/network/interfaces
[21:29] <yofel> prefrontal: you should also check /var/log/syslog for any NM errors
[21:29] <yofel> oh
[21:29] <yofel> you use interfaces...
[21:29] <yofel> lets see
[21:30] <yofel> hm, but if resolv.conf has the DNS entry then it should work fine...
[21:31] <prefrontal> brb, need to reboot to see what shows up in syslog
[21:31] <yofel> can anyone else comment on this too? I'm no expert on debugging networks...
[21:36] <kklimonda> yay, kernel panic - first one on 10.04
[21:38] <prefrontal> yofel, i may have found it in syslog. looks crazy. "avahi-daemon[1176]: Failed to open /etc/resolv.conf: Invalid argument"  more: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1765718
[21:39] <prefrontal> i wonder if this is an out of order device loading issue. could the filesystem not be there yet? seems nuts.
[21:40] <yofel> no idea, I've never seen such a message
[21:40] <yofel> google might be of more help
[21:40] <prefrontal> yep, am looking
[21:51] <rmunn> prefrontal: What happens when you run "dig www.google.com"?
[21:54] <prefrontal> rmunn, is it worth a reboot? ;-)
[21:55] <prefrontal> i know that its a dns issue
[21:55] <prefrontal> i plugged in google's ip and it worked
[21:56] <rmunn> prefontal: Probably not -- but running dig might tell you which DNS server (if any) it's trying to use
[21:56] <BUGabundo> bRoas o/
[21:56] <rmunn> prefrontal: I had a problem once where I had two DNS servers running on my network, and one of them wasn't properly configured. Lots of head-scratching until I used dig.
[21:57] <prefrontal> rmunn, ok, the next time i reboot i will examine with dig, thanks
[22:07] <DanaG> weird... after plymouth, my screen still does a mode-switch.
[23:01] <myrradin> does anyone else thinkg that iwlwifi doesn't work very well in karmic or lucid ?
[23:07] <crimsun> myrradin: sorry, but you're going to need to give a lot more hw and dmesg detail than that
[23:08] <crimsun> i.e., trivially /someone/ "thinks that iwlwifi doesn't work very well in karmic or lucid"
[23:08] <myrradin> crimsun: this happens to me a lot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/429035/comments/55
[23:09] <myrradin> it worked for me in jaunty, my memory is not that great but I THINK back then it used the ipw2200 driver, and the daemon, the firmware
[23:09] <crimsun> myrradin: have you tried using compat-wireless-2.6.33-rc5.tar.bz2 ?
[23:10] <myrradin> crimsun: no.  what is that?  i just looked in apt-cache and synaptic, i don't see it
[23:12] <myrradin> crimsun: is that available for lucid?
[23:15] <Sarvatt> does it happen in another OS? there are problems with some broadcom drivers used on routers that have problems connecting to intel clients for instance (not sure if you are using a linux based router)
[23:16] <myrradin> Sarvatt: my wireless nic works in windows xp.  it worked in jaunty.  i have had troubles connecting to my own router-running-linux (tomato), apple airport, and random access point at various coffee shops
[23:16] <Sarvatt> yeah tomato specifically is one that has problems with intel clients if you use the ND firmware
[23:17] <myrradin> how do i fix, besides stop using ubuntu?
[23:17] <Sarvatt> nvram set wl_reg_mode=off
[23:17] <Sarvatt> nvram commit
[23:17] <Sarvatt> on the router
[23:17] <myrradin> what is ND firmware?
[23:17] <Sarvatt> or switch away from a ND release
[23:18] <myrradin> that's firmware on my wireless router?
[23:18] <Sarvatt> yes
[23:19] <Sarvatt> there are 2 versions of tomato, ND and normal, ND has newer broadcom drivers on it but has problems with intel clients, you can use those commands i pasted in a shell on it or switch to the non ND one. I'm not sure if your router requires a ND  firmware though but both are offered on the download page
[23:19] <myrradin> in my workplace i have two wifi routers.  i can't connect to the one running tomato (i'll try your suggestion) , the other one is a cisco business router smoething something.  if i run karmic or lucid, i can't even see the access point, it's not available to try to connect to, really weird
[23:20] <BluesKaj> I wonder why my fstab disappeared after an kernel upgrade..did a cat /etc/fstab and copied it to /etc/fstab and edited it fit my previous file , but it fails to boot
[23:25] <Sarvatt> myrradin: it could very well be a kernel problem but intel clients dropping connections like that is a _really_ common problem with tomato firmware (and anything else using the newer broadcom drivers). might be worth looking into that is all
[23:26] <myrradin> Sarvatt: i wish it was possible to compile the old intel ipw2200 stuff in current kernels, but it doesn't appear to be possible anymore
[23:30] <myrradin> so what's a good USB wireless nic that uses a chip that ubuntu has a driver for that works 99.99 percent of the time ?
[23:32] <BluesKaj> myrradin, well I can tell what not to ...belkin, been struggling with a usb wifi for a week, no luck
[23:32] <kklimonda> great, new anjuta crashes on code completion - time to go back to vim I guess
[23:33] <myrradin> i went out and bought a usb wireless nic... it appears to use intel 3945, oops
[23:35] <BluesKaj> myrradin, but what brand usb?
[23:35] <crimsun> hint: for usb wifi, go with an atheros chipset.
[23:37] <BUGabundo> thanks crimsun
[23:41] <crimsun> the two reliable usb wifi devices I have are driven by rtl8187 and ar9170usb, respectively
[23:41] <myrradin> myrradin: I wonder what chip this is? http://www.amazon.com/BlueProton-High-Gain-Wireless-802-11g-Adapter/dp/B001GQLLSW/ref=pd_cp_e_1
[23:41] <myrradin> oops
[23:41] <myrradin> talking to myself
[23:41] <crimsun> completely Free, which is a bit deal with debugging kernel problems
[23:41] <crimsun> s/bit/big/
[23:44] <BluesKaj> crimsun, my belkin keeps trying to use my neighbour's real slow unsecured network..iwlist scan seems to give the neighbour's network priority overmy 2wire , and I've done the etc/network/interfaces tutorials til blue in the face but it refuses to connect ...itwas working very well on jaunty with wicd .
[23:44] <myrradin> the internet says that is a realtek chip.  will that work ?
[23:45] <myrradin> ive wasted many hours of my life in getting wireless and ubuntu to work, it is sad
[23:45] <crimsun> myrradin: wireless.kernel.org has a semi-maintained list of usb ids for wifi adapters
[23:47] <crimsun> BluesKaj: having never used wicd, I don't know if you can lock a BSSID to an ESSID
[23:47] <myrradin> Make no mistake, you get what you pay for with this. I bought it to use with my G3 running Ubuntu 9.04. Just as they claim, it worked right away, and the drivers for it are fine. Note that this thing gets extremely hot. Mind-blowingly hot. I can't believe it doesn't have a straight up heating element in it hot.
[23:47] <crimsun> BluesKaj: it should be possible using wpa_supplicant directly, however.
[23:49] <BluesKaj> yeah, that was one of the techniques i tried without success
[23:50] <crimsun> via wpa_cli, too?
[23:54] <BluesKaj> crimsun, wpa_supplicant and /etc/network/interfaces and cli dhclient commands for starting the network
[23:54] <myrradin> i just bought an atheros chipset wireless nic, i look forward to not having to complain all of the time about this
[23:55] <BluesKaj> myrradin, try wicd , itworks well with atheros
[23:55] <BluesKaj> network manager is flaky
[23:56] <myrradin> just bought... is being mailed to me now.  for now,i cry about iwlwifi  and intel
[23:57] <BluesKaj> myrradin, no need to vry, you'll be ok with the intel i'm sure
[23:58] <myrradin> no, it makes me cry, it sucks, it doesn't work.  it worked with jaunty and the binary driver