[01:33] <persia> neversfelde: Instead of overriding dh_auto_install, you might also try adding "export INSTALL_ROOT ..." somewhere for the child makefile to use.  This depends on the child makefile config.
[01:34] <neversfelde> persia: I do not have time to look at this now, but I will try it. Thanks.
[01:36] <persia> No rush :)
[01:52]  * ScottK notes RC2 seems to work a lot more smoothly than RC1 on his netbook.  RC1 is much smoother than the last beta (which seemed stuck in swap all the time with 1GB RAM)
[02:17] <Lex79> ScottK: Qt 4.6.1 builds fine, but kdebase-runtime against Qt 4.6.1 doesn't, I need to ask sandsmark if he can fix that
[02:17] <Lex79> since it's due to his phonon patch
[02:19] <Lex79> http://pastebin.ca/1766031
[02:26] <ScottK> Yes, please.
[02:30] <Lex79> done, he will see tomorrow
[03:19] <Lex79> I found the problem, kdebase-runtime ftbs due to this change in Qt http://pastebin.ca/1766069
[03:19] <Lex79> we will fix tomorrow
[03:19] <Lex79> g'night
[03:22] <ScottK> Good night.
[04:32] <nixternal> ok, I am so in the mood to do some coding, all of this documentation is driving me up a wall
[04:32] <nixternal> why does our channel look so bare? only 65 people
[04:36] <ScottK> 64, you scared one off
[04:48] <nixternal> damn skippy
[05:07] <jepong> hello... upgrade my kubuntu karmic to KDE 4.4 RC2 now i have 2 panel... is this a bug?
[05:39] <shtylman> apachelogger: I was unaware we still wanted that :) ... I thought it was going to non fullscreen
[05:39] <shtylman> apachelogger: but I can make the changes if needed
[05:46] <ScottK> shtylman: Is the new theme that came with rc 2 yours?
[05:46] <shtylman> ScottK: what new theme?
[05:47] <ScottK> I don't have the checkerboard anymore.
[05:47] <shtylman> wallpaper?
[05:47] <ScottK> Yeah
[05:47] <ScottK> Sorry for the imprecision.
[05:47] <shtylman> nope...no idea who's
[05:47] <shtylman> I havn't actually seen it yet
[05:47] <shtylman> havn't updated recently
[05:48] <ScottK> OK, it's a huge step forward.
[05:49] <shtylman> screenshot?
[05:49] <shtylman> is it a kde thing
[05:49] <shtylman> or just a kubuntu thing?
[05:51] <shtylman> ScottK: what is it called?
[05:51]  * ScottK digs for the netbook
[05:51] <ScottK> No idea if it's KDE or Kubuntu
[05:52] <ScottK> Wallpaper is Ethaid by Nuno Pinheiro, so I guess upstream.
[05:52] <ScottK> Ethaid/Ethais
[05:53] <ScottK> Now you can be motivated to update.
[05:53] <shtylman> indeed
[05:53] <shtylman> hmm..dunno about the white glow where the lines meet
[05:53] <ScottK> Pretty much the opposite of what we had before.  Radically plain.
[05:53] <shtylman> but I kinda like it in general
[05:54] <shtylman> yea...wonder what it took to convince pinheiro
[05:54] <ScottK> 5 guys, baseball bats, dark alley ....
[05:55] <ScottK> No idea really.
[05:55] <shtylman> haha
[05:56] <shtylman> same kdm theme though?
[05:56] <shtylman> I guess I will need to update mine... and we can use mine with the new wallpaper...
[05:56] <shtylman> kde is frozen
[05:56] <shtylman> so its up to us... if we accept it :)
[05:58]  * ScottK stays out of artwork arguments.
[05:58]  * ScottK just always uses the default.
[06:02] <shtylman> :)
[06:03] <shtylman> everyone is an artist when it comes to opinions
[06:12] <nixternal> ok, I just fired up lucid daily-live iso right, and the new kde wallpaper is brown in qemu...is this real or a joke?
[06:13] <nixternal> also, we need to move the uBlog widget, as on a 1024 screen it doesn't fit correctly
[06:32] <ScottK> nixternal: It's not brown on my netbook.
[08:02]  * Sput seems to remember Nuno just gave up, didn't feel like fighting for Quadros anymore
[08:19] <markey> Quadros?
[09:56]  * Riddell does the kdebindings compiling dance
[09:58]  * Tm_T does the kdebindings build failure dance
[09:58] <Tm_T> smoke fails here ):
[10:12] <Riddell> nixternal: the wallpaper is a blueish grey, are you sure you didn't load an ubuntu desktop CD by mistake? :)
[10:14] <Tm_T> Riddell: but Kubuntu is Ubuntu (;
[10:16] <Tm_T> here's wallpaper to please my eye: http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/k-ed-ubuntu/kedubuntu-more-geckogreen-1.png
[11:18] <Riddell> tseliot: what's your problem with jockey and pykde?  I have it compiled now so I should check that's fixed
[11:19] <tseliot> Riddell: simply try to rebuild jockey and see if there's a problem with po files
[11:20] <tseliot> Riddell: if it builds, then problem solved
[11:22] <Riddell> tseliot: I just did a bzr co bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/jockey/ubuntu/ and it builds fine
[11:23] <tseliot> Riddell: this is great news! Thanks for working on it. I can fix Jockey now
[11:25] <apachelogger> shtylman: well, I dont know, nobody tells me anything these days :|
[11:25] <apachelogger> ruphy: pling pling
[11:25] <tseliot> Riddell: have you pushed the new pykde already?
[11:26] <Riddell> tseliot: no, still some more testing to do, I'll give you a ping when I upload shortly
[11:26] <tseliot> Riddell: perfect, thanks
[12:04] <JontheEchidna> crimsun, Riddell: thought you might like to know about bug 512711
[12:06] <Riddell> hum
[12:07] <Mamarok> Riddell: amichair can't join, is the channel still set to +R?
[12:08] <Riddell> oh fooey
[12:08] <Riddell> I wonder how I unset that
[12:10] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: crimsun added that to the seed so best wait for him to wake up and decide what should be done
[12:12] <JontheEchidna> cool,the i386 iso fits on a CD
[12:14] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: Oh, a follow up to the dist-upgrade stuff for kubuntu-notification-helper. Harald sez that PackageKit's dist-upgrade notification can be patched to hook in to update-manager-kde (instead of update-manager-gnome)
[12:14] <JontheEchidna> so assuming he can get the patch to chose -kde in kde and -gnome in gnome we'll be able to use PackageKit for dist-upgrade notification
[12:14] <JontheEchidna> and it'll hook into our existing systems
[12:15] <JontheEchidna> so I've disabled the dist-upgrade stuff I wrote for kubuntu-notification-helper, but am keeping it around in case PackageKit falls through or if in the future we ever decide to not use it anymore
[12:16] <Riddell> I didn't know packagekit had dist upgrade notification
[12:16] <Riddell> dantti: know anything about that?
[12:16] <Tm_T> Riddell: do we keep +r until server migration?
[12:17] <Riddell> glatzor said he's too busy to do the packagekit update and asked me to do it
[12:17] <jussi01> Ill fix it, +r is the block unidentified
[12:17] <dantti> Riddell: not sure I followed it, but the aptcc backend does dist-upgrade
[12:18] <dantti> was that the question?
[12:18] <dantti> what is update-manager-kde?
[12:18] <jussi01> Mamarok: amichair should be all good now
[12:18] <Riddell> dantti: I mean distro version upgrade notification (rather than apt's dist-upgrade method)
[12:18] <Mamarok> jussi01: yes, I know
[12:19] <Riddell> dantti: for upgrading between ubuntu 9.10 and 10.04, does packagekit have a way of notified that a new version is available?
[12:19] <dantti> Riddell: hmm I think apachelogger asked me about that, and in KPackageKit version 0.5.x I set an env var called DESKTOP=kde
[12:19] <Riddell> amichair: welcome back
[12:19] <amichair> Riddell: groovy, thanks :-)
[12:19] <dantti> Riddell: well from a backend point of view I don't know how to detect that, I know PackageKit has a method to do that but in aptcc i didn't implement that,
[12:20] <dantti> the python version afair implements but looking at update-**-gnome it's just an apt-get dist-upgrade so IMO that tool is useless (till someone say I'm wrong)
[12:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: a) glatzor needs to apply a patch to packagekit b) we need to patch packagekit and kpk in karmic
[12:22] <apachelogger> then kpk/pk is able to invoke that do-upgrade thingy to invoke an upgrade
[12:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: why is karmic an issue?  it has update-notifier-kde and should work fine
[12:23] <apachelogger> oh
[12:23] <apachelogger> actually
[12:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: kpk and unk are conflicting
[12:23] <Riddell> how so?
[12:23] <apachelogger> kpk will still notify and try to invoke the script, which fails since the unpatched pk goes for the GTK UI in all cases
[12:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: upgrade detection in pk is working just fine, the upgrade execution itself not though
[12:24] <dantti> apachelogger: how is that detected?
[12:24] <dantti> so I can add this to aptcc too
[12:25] <Riddell> for Ubuntu you need to read http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release
[12:26] <apachelogger> well
[12:26] <dantti> and this upgrate-* thing is any better than apt-get  dist-upgrade?
[12:26] <apachelogger> the apt backend for pk
[12:26] <apachelogger> is written in python
[12:26] <apachelogger> so is the library to check for new releases
[12:26] <apachelogger> so the backend just invokes the check for new releases every time it updates the cache I suppose
[12:26] <apachelogger> it defenitely uses the library though
[12:27] <dantti> hmm so to have aptcc doing that I'd need to either have a pyhelper or write in cpp what that lib does..
[12:28] <dantti> apachelogger: but using the gnome version of this update stuff i really find it useless, do you know what good has in it?
[12:28] <apachelogger> there is a compability lib so you can access python from within cpp
[12:29] <apachelogger> dantti: what gnome version?
[12:29] <dantti> right do you know which lib?
[12:29] <apachelogger> http://docs.python.org/c-api/
[12:29] <dantti> apachelogger: http://packages.debian.org/sid/update-manager-core
[12:30] <dantti> is that tool that is invoked?
[12:30] <apachelogger> I believe so
[12:30] <apachelogger> though I do not think it is depending on gksu on ubuntu
[12:31] <apachelogger> Replaces: update-manager (<< 1:0.93.7)
[12:31] <apachelogger> Depends: python (<< 2.7), python (>= 2.5), python-central (>= 0.6.11), python2.6, python-apt (>= 0.7.5), lsb-release, python-gnupginterface
[12:31] <apachelogger> Recommends: libpam-modules (>= 1.0.1-9ubuntu3)
[12:31] <apachelogger> Conflicts: computer-janitor (<= 1.11-0ubuntu1),
[12:31] <dantti> right, but really I looked at it's code and it seems to do nothing more than a dist-upgrade, so imo this tool is kind of useless :P
[12:32] <apachelogger> well on debian maybe :P
[12:32] <dantti> as we can do dist-upgrade all whithin PK
[12:32] <apachelogger> on ubuntu it checks http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release for new releases
[12:33] <dantti> apachelogger: right but after you know it has a new realease, at least on debian it's nothing more than updating a bunch of stuff...
[12:33] <dantti> what it could do is to add the new version repo...
[12:33] <apachelogger> http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#xNWLctYKLvE/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/dist-upgrader-all/current/feisty.tar.gz%7C1y9FfdRMCzs/DistUpgradeFetcherCore.py&q=DistUpgradeFetcherCore.p
[12:34] <apachelogger> dantti: that is handled by do-release-upgrade on ubuntu
[12:34] <apachelogger> actually, do-release-upgrade will download the appropriate libs for updates and then start the update UI
[12:34] <apachelogger> and then the update tool takes care of adding the new version and deactivatig unofficial repos and removing old cruft....
[12:39] <Riddell> dantti: a straight dist-upgrade is not what's tested for ubuntu release updates and there's various reasons why it doesn't generally work, that tool will work
[12:42] <dantti> Riddell: right then I'll try to make use of it in aptcc :)
[12:44] <dantti> apachelogger: and do you need me to patch Pk to make call the right script?
[12:45] <dantti> i think you said glatzor is busy..
[12:45] <apachelogger> dantti: no, I need to patch pk to call the script with the right arguments
[12:46] <dantti> apachelogger: well if you already have something i can push there or i can write the patch if you tell me exactally what is needed
[12:47] <apachelogger> I have the patch somewhere
[12:47] <apachelogger> just need to find it ^^
[12:51] <apachelogger> dantti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363218/
[12:53] <dantti> apachelogger: that patch seems fine do you know if glatzor was ok?
[12:54] <apachelogger> he did not respond
[12:54] <apachelogger> though I talked with him about it and he asked me to provide a patch ;)
[12:55] <apachelogger> it's non-invasive anyway, since as long as DESKTOP is not kde (which it only is if invoked by kpk), the script will still launch the GTK interface
[12:55] <dantti> apachelogger: ok, i'll just tell Richard about it and if he's fine I'll patch so next 0.6 and 0.5 versions have it..
[12:55] <apachelogger> kthx :)
[13:01] <dantti> apachelogger: k, pushing it :)
[13:11] <Mamarok> what's wrong with the partitionmanager? It keeps segfaulting and I can't get a valid backtrace
[13:31] <ScottK> apachelogger: Why would we want to bother with kpk if knh is working to dist upgrade notification?
[13:32]  * ScottK has yet to touch kpk and not come away feeling unclean.
[13:33] <apachelogger> ScottK: because we are fixing something instead of rewriting it in a doubtlessly less clean way
[13:33] <ScottK> I just want the nice little update icon back.
[13:34] <ScottK> The kpk cyborg monstrosity of a notification is horrible.
[13:34] <apachelogger> well, unk does the same now
[13:34] <apachelogger> go blame upstream for their policy on notifications :P
[13:35] <ScottK> We aren't "fixing" reboot required the same way are we?
[13:35] <apachelogger> we did?
[13:35] <ScottK> I hope not
[13:35] <apachelogger> the cpp version throws up a notification rather than an icon
[13:35] <ScottK> Sigh.
[13:36] <ScottK> Bad plan
[13:36] <apachelogger> I am not sure what the greater picture behind it is
[13:36] <ScottK> The kpk updates notification is totally disruptive.
[13:36] <apachelogger> though if it should at some point become clear the cpp unk is thoughtfully enough designed to migrate with minimum change
[13:37] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, since it is popping up over and over again, each time it refreshes the cache I suppose
[13:37] <ScottK> Having it be a notification at all is a problem.
[13:37] <ScottK> apachelogger: Or each time you get some other notification.
[13:37] <apachelogger> well, it wants to notify you of something important
[13:37] <ScottK> Seriously, this is a problem.
[13:37] <apachelogger> so unless you acknowledge the notification...
[13:37] <apachelogger> which kind of makes sense
[13:37] <apachelogger> though I feel your pain
[13:37] <ScottK> Except it's almost never important.
[13:38] <ScottK> Updates should not be in your face.
[13:38] <ScottK> They should be subtly mentioned so that you can deal with it when ready.
[13:40] <apachelogger> oh goodness
[13:40] <apachelogger> virtualbox fails to acknowledge the existance of kdesu/kdesudo
[13:40] <apachelogger> oh
[13:40] <ScottK> I think what we had before was just about ideal from a U/I perspective.
[13:40] <apachelogger> it ignores kde alltogether
[13:40] <apachelogger> hooray
[13:41] <apachelogger> I hope oracle will beat all the sun software to death so that someone feels motivated to create sensible solutions
[13:42] <apachelogger> "Fill out the Sun Contributor's Agreement (SCA)"
[13:42] <apachelogger> ah, they do not even want me to fix it
[13:43]  * ScottK has a similar problem with Google.
[13:43] <ScottK> My policy on copyright assignment is "I have a consulting rate for that."
[13:45] <apachelogger> my all new policy on them is to ask neversfelde what he thinks about the content, upon which he hopefully says that it is a load of foo so that I have a good reason not to sign it :P
[13:45]  * apachelogger is wondering why jockey refuses to pop-up
[13:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363239/ that method seems to have disappeared in 4.4 korundum
[13:45] <ScottK> Seriously: Is there nothing we can do to restore sanity on update/upgrade notification?
[13:46] <apachelogger> ScottK: go talk to upstream
[13:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: the iconsize method?
[13:46] <ScottK> apachelogger: About?  Just because upstream provides a notification system does not mean it has to be used for everything.
[13:47] <apachelogger> I have been told that upstreams POV is that no notification should be carried via a systray icon, but a notification, hence kpk uses notifications and not a systray icon
[13:48] <ScottK> Upstream kpk or upstream KDE?
[13:48] <apachelogger> KDE
[13:48] <ScottK> I didn't figure we'd get kpk to change.
[13:48] <ScottK> U/I pedantry at the expense of the user is not what I thought we were about.
[13:49] <apachelogger> oh wellz
[13:49] <apachelogger> go ask the KDE HCI people to establish a policy on notifications, taking persistent notifications just as those from kpk into account
[13:49] <ScottK> I had high hopes for jonny's notifier being sane.
[13:49] <apachelogger> AFAIK there is no clear guideline on that
[13:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: it is sane, just currently the sanity is what we have been told is considered best praticse :P
[13:50] <ScottK> Maybe when he gets back I can talk him into providing something good.
[13:50] <apachelogger> as I said, the design is flexible enough to change the definition of best practise rather easily
[13:50] <ScottK> That's good.
[13:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: jonny is not the dude to talk to
[13:50] <apachelogger> KDE HCI is
[13:50] <ScottK> Meh.
[13:51] <apachelogger> if we do it that way and KDE chooses to go another one we will end up with a rather unintegrated system
[13:51] <ScottK> Can the kpk notifications be turned off easily?
[13:51] <apachelogger> ScottK: in the kpk settings
[13:53] <apachelogger> hm
[13:53] <apachelogger> is Copyrign a real word?
[13:53] <apachelogger> or do Sun employees just not know how to write Copyright
[13:54] <apachelogger> ah
[13:54] <apachelogger> its a firm :D
[13:54] <apachelogger> <3 grep and distorted screen muahahaha :D
[13:54]  * apachelogger got too much coffee
[13:54] <apachelogger> oh my
[13:56] <Riddell> jussi01: happy Australia day
[13:59] <apachelogger> ruphy: since I am gone until tomorrow... it would be very nice if you could provide a step-by-step guide on that kmess friendly name issue... I was failing to reproduce it with 2.0, thought that might be related to KDE 4.4rc2?
[14:03] <jussi01> Riddell: thanks!
[14:05] <Sput> apachelogger: the sensible solution is called "KVM/qemu"
[14:05] <Sput> like, you know, all free and stuff
[14:06] <ScottK> Sput: I thought the sensible solution to replacing Sun products was Postgresql.
[14:06] <Sput> ScottK: that was the other product
[14:06] <Sput> it's kinda hard to replace VirtualBox by pgsql :)
[14:11] <apachelogger> Sput: with crappy UI and all too :P
[14:11] <Sput> apachelogger: who needs UI...
[14:11] <apachelogger> just imagine a VM written in pgsql
[14:11] <apachelogger> muahaha
[14:11] <apachelogger> that would be kinky :D
[14:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: so what is the method that is not available in korundum 4.4?
[14:15] <Riddell> apachelogger: iconSize
[14:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: sounds like a bug, so you should tell rdale about it ... but in general it can be migrated to setIconSize(16)
[14:17] <apachelogger> editing properties via propertyName = value is a special feature of korundum, but is equal to setPropertyName(value)
[14:18] <Riddell> I'll poke kdebindings mailing list with that and the patches from Debian too
[14:20] <apachelogger> ok
[14:27] <apachelogger> gotta go
[14:58] <Riddell> uploading KDE bindings
[14:58] <Riddell> we already had the meeting
[14:58] <ScottK> Right.
[15:23] <Riddell> persia, rbelem: if you're planning on having ubuntu liquid released with lucid you should talk to slangasek about getting it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseManifest
[15:23] <persia> We're not expecting to have images released.
[15:24] <persia> At the current time, we don't even have public instructions on how to compile a kernel for the target hardware.
[15:24] <persia> Of course, if this changes quickly enough, we may do so.
[15:25] <persia> But I'll confirm in case I'm misunderstanding that n810/n900 is the target.
[15:25] <Riddell> that simplifies things :)
[15:27] <persia> While I've your attention, do you anticipate we'd have any issues exposing a libkcontrol and libkcontrol-dev?
[15:27] <persia> (alternately we can do more brute-force source copy when building kdm-mobile, etc.)
[15:29] <ScottK> Riddell: Looking at the manifest, I see it calls for Kubuntu Netbook to be a "netbook-remix" image.  I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I'm pretty sure it's not called that now.
[15:31] <Riddell> I don't think it means anything
[15:31] <ScottK> OK.
[15:31] <ScottK> Just checking.
[15:32] <Riddell> ScottK: you forgot to subscribe motu-sru to 499314
[15:32] <Riddell> bug 499314
[15:33] <ScottK> Riddell: No, I subscribed ubuntu-sru, didn't I?
[15:33] <ScottK> The teams have been combined now.
[15:33] <Riddell> oh?  didn't hear that happening
[15:34] <ScottK> I'm not sure how well it was announced.
[15:35] <persia> It was very pooly announced, but it's marked as DONE on the action list, so it's done.
[15:39] <Lex79> Riddell: I saw you uploaded kdebindings :) did you upload also qscintilla2 ? It's in ninja
[15:40] <Riddell> Lex79: good point, let me look at that
[15:43] <ScottK> Nightrose: Could someone from amarok look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-distributed-devel/2010-January/000410.html and see what they can do to be helpful.
[15:45] <daskreech> :-( Curses my friend on Gentoo has nepomuk search working
[15:46] <Riddell> ScottK: I don't think that has anything to do with Nightrose or upstream amarok.  they asked for an import years ago and that's probably what's still around but it was the launchpad developers who did it
[15:46] <ScottK> Riddell: Oh.  OK.  Thanks.
[15:51] <dantti> ScottK: reading backlogs seems that you don't like kpk notifications what do you think is better?
[15:52] <ScottK> dantti: I think the systray icon we had before was a far superior solution.
[15:53] <ScottK> Part of the problem with a notification is it re-appears everytime some other notification comes in so it is completely disruptive.
[15:53] <ScottK> I think that's inherent with using an notification and the only solution is not to use one.
[15:53] <dantti> ScottK: hmm well kpk systray icon was added later than notifications, and i disabled it after one release
[15:53] <Lex79> Riddell: maybe retry python-qt4
[15:53] <ScottK> dantti: By before, I mean before kpk.
[15:54] <ScottK> Lex79: Is SIP fixed?
[15:54] <dantti> ScottK: right, but that's how notifications in kde suck
[15:54] <ScottK> dantti: Yes, so let's avoid the suck.
[15:54] <dantti> they should be stacked as someone else proposed
[15:54] <Lex79> seems yes
[15:54]  * ScottK retries.
[15:54] <Lex79> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sip4-qt3/4.10.0-0ubuntu1
[15:55] <dantti> ScottK: and it's persistent so the user has to interact with it
[15:55] <dantti> I was thinking of putting the systray icon back optionally
[15:55] <ScottK> dantti: Certainly, but it can be persistent without being aggravating.
[15:55] <ScottK> dantti: I would REALLY appreciate that.
[15:56] <dantti> I didn't do that yet cause i hate icon systray just to warn you of something..
[15:56] <dantti> ScottK: by aggravating you mean what?
[15:56] <Riddell> it should be a choice between the two though, currently we have both showing with kpackagekit 0.4
[15:56] <Riddell> wasn't seele looking into this?
[15:56] <dantti> systray scace is so precious to me (with 1024x768 res)
[15:57] <dantti> Riddell: afair kubuntu patched to reenable it..
[15:57] <ScottK> dantti: I find the notification really intrusive.
[15:58] <ScottK> Systray use is configurable by the user now, so it's really up to the individual.
[15:58] <ScottK> On my netbook it feels like it takes up half the screen.
[15:58] <dantti> ScottK: well that's somehow the idea, hey Update it, but it shouldn't bother the user after a first click...
[15:58] <ScottK> dantti: But then it pops back up with any other notification that comes in.
[15:59] <ScottK> Generally I don't update my systems when I'm in the middle of work.  I do it when it's convenient for me.
[15:59] <dantti> yes, but that's not how it should behave, that's why i say kde notification suck
[15:59] <ScottK> So I either get revisited by the notification each time any notification comes in or it goes away entirely.
[15:59] <dantti> it should be there till the user clicks on it to get rid of it
[15:59] <ScottK> So the systray solution is much nicer IMO.
[16:00] <dantti> right
[16:00] <ScottK> It appears and sits there as a quiet reminder until you are ready to deal with it.
[16:00] <ScottK> The other argument is that users don't understand it.
[16:00] <ScottK> I tested our old one on my totally non-technical teenagers and they understand it.
[16:02] <ScottK> Philosophically, this should only be a notification if updates are an attribute of the workspace.  I'm not sure this is right anyway.   I think one can equally argue it's an attribute of the application update application and systray is a perfectly fine way to manage it.
[16:02] <dantti> ScottK: hmm by old what do you mean?
[16:02] <ScottK> dantti: The pre-kpk icon that we used in Kubuntu.
[16:02] <ScottK> For Intrepid/Jaunty.
[16:03] <dantti> k, it's just so you can understand, it started as a notification, then one guy changed the notification and added the systray icon... so by old i think it's the original i created... :P
[16:04] <ScottK> Right, for me old is pre-kpk.
[16:04] <ScottK> I don't think I've ever seen the kpk systray icon.
[16:05] <ScottK> I care a lot less about what the actual icon looks like than systray versus popup.
[16:05] <dantti> ScottK: so i think I'll change it to: notification("hey you have 20 updates!", action["Update now", "Don't ask again"], timeout 15 secs), and when the notification closes and the user doesn't click on one of the option if will show the systray icon...
[16:05] <dantti> ScottK: what do you think?
[16:06] <ScottK> That would be an improvement.
[16:06] <daskreech> ScottK: teenagers are attentive to moving things
[16:06] <ScottK> I'd like the option to not have the popup at all and just have the icon appear
[16:06] <ScottK> Ideally "you have 20 updates" would be a tooltip for the icon.
[16:06] <dantti> ScottK: but one icon doesn't mean to much for most user
[16:07] <dantti> the user HAS to put a moush over it to see what it's about
[16:07] <ScottK> dantti: My view is the ones that don't manage to figure out to update based on the icon won't do updates anyway.
[16:07] <dantti> so imo a notification is a must.
[16:08] <ScottK> dantti: I think that the system insisting on breaking the user's work flow for anything other than imminent data loss is wrong.
[16:08] <ScottK> For anythin short of that it ought to be up to the user to decide how they want to have it work.
[16:08] <ScottK> dantti: I think notification followed by the icon is a reasonable default.
[16:09] <dantti> ok
[16:09] <ScottK> dantti: Equally I feel an option to not have the notification is essential.
[16:10] <dantti> so change [ X ] "notify when updates are available" to [ X ] "notify when updates are available" combo ["Notification and Icon", "only notification", "only icon"]
[16:11] <daskreech> Riddell: is there going to be any effort to unify the look of prompts in Kubuntu?
[16:11] <ScottK> dantti: I think so, yes.
[16:11] <Riddell> prompts?
[16:22] <shadeslayer> is quilt required for building rekonq in a PPA or should i remove it?
[16:45] <Riddell> shadeslayer: does it have any patches is the question
[16:47] <shadeslayer> Riddell: all applied upstream
[16:52] <ScottK> Then it's probably not needed, but it doesn't hurt to leave it.
[16:53] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: sorry got disconnected,you were saying?
[16:53] <Riddell> 16:52 < ScottK> Then it's probably not needed, but it doesn't hurt to leave it.
[16:54] <shadeslayer_> ok one more question,with so many PPA's in launchpad,is the changelog supposed to reflect every change in those PPA's or just mine?
[16:55] <drdanz> !find kde.pm karmic
[16:56] <drdanz> !find kde.pm lucid
[16:56] <Riddell> it should reflect the changes between the version you are uploading and the previous version from your or the main archive
[16:57] <shadeslayer_> ok thanks for the info :D
[17:05] <shadeslayer_> and btw if i changed the version to package-version-0ubuntu1+lucid1~ppa1 should i change the tarball to match it?
[17:05] <ScottK> No.
[17:05] <ScottK> You also probably want 0ubuntu1~lucid1~ppa1
[17:05] <Riddell> no need to include lucid in the version number, we know that's what were developing for
[17:06] <ScottK> True
[17:06] <ScottK> That pattern is good for earlier releases though
[17:06] <nixternal> Riddell: no, it is a Kubuntu CD...it must be the graphics or something with qemu
[17:07] <Riddell> nixternal: or your eyes? :)
[17:07] <nixternal> could have been :)
[17:07] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: so just package-version-0ubuntu1~ppa1 ?
[17:08] <ScottK> Yep
[17:08] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: you're missing the usptream version there
[17:08] <Riddell> oh "version" is upstream, that's fine
[17:08] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: um ScottK told me to remove it
[17:08] <shadeslayer_> oh i thought you meant lucid1
[17:09] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: yeah its like : rekonq-0.3.3~ppa1
[17:09] <shadeslayer_> meh forgot 0ubuntu1
[17:10] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: but i have rekonq - 0.3.32-0ubuntu1 in my PPA,so dont think that will work..
[17:10] <ScottK> Probably not.
[17:10] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: ok im uploading 0.3.33 so it should imp
[17:10] <shadeslayer_> *imo
[17:18] <daskreech> Riddell: Like kdesudo and kpolicykit
[17:19] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[17:20] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: hi
[17:24] <shadeslayer> hmm : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/363332/ : even though i have rekonq_0.3.33.orig.tar.gz
[17:24] <shadeslayer> daskreech: oh btw,choqok 32 bit packages were built,try them out if you like :)
[17:28] <_Groo_> i just did them and gonna upload to ppa as soon as ppas stabilizes
[17:30] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: hmm?
[17:30] <shadeslayer> btw any ideas on that pastebin?
[17:32] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: choqok.. i just did a package from today svn
[17:33] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: with support for favorites and public tabs
[17:33] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: oh awesome,mine is a day old :P,maybe you can help me with my error? ( rekonq from git,pastebin above )
[17:35] <shadeslayer> hmm the build works if i rename the tar ball to just rekonq_0.3.33.tar.gz 0_o
[17:35] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: let me guess, it borks with the stupid qt tests?
[17:36] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: what distro? and pastebin your rules file
[17:37] <allee> FWIW: bangarang is beta2 in lucid,  sid has aleady 1.0 pkg (as well as samrog131's ppa).  Maybe better no deliver a beta in LTS ;)
[17:37] <ScottK> allee: It will be synced shortly.  In the plan already.
[17:38] <allee> ScottK: great!
[17:38] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: Kubuntu Karmic 9.10,and i think its a problem with reading the archive,and control :http://pastebin.com/f11c118b
[17:40] <shadeslayer> oh i think i know the problem just a sec
[17:41] <shadeslayer> apparently not ;P
[17:43] <shadeslayer> ScottK: any ideas on the error?
[17:46] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: ?
[17:47] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: i need rules file, not control
[17:48] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: http://pastebin.com/f3ecb895
[17:49] <ScottK> NCommander: SIP, python-qt3, and python-qt4 in Debian are in real need of your attention again.
[17:50] <NCommander> ScottK, ugh, what blew up?
[17:50] <ScottK> NCommander: SIP out of date and binNMUs for python2.6 transition did not go well.
[17:51] <ScottK> Which had the knock on effect of blowing up the kdebindings binNMU
[17:51] <NCommander> ScottK, can I start crying in the corner now?
[17:51] <ScottK> NCommander: Riddell seems to have got it sorted here, so you can "give back" to Debian.
[17:52] <NCommander> Riddell, sorry about that, I should have been on top of it :-/
[17:52] <NCommander> Riddell, got a debdiff :-)?
[17:53] <ScottK> For SIP and python-qt4 it's new versions.
[17:53] <ScottK> OTOH, qt4-x11 4.6 is still just in Experimental in Debian, so it may be premature.
[17:53] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: its aparently ok, since im building for lucid i dont know what could be wrong.. i suggest you delete the tar.rbz2 files and debuild -us -uc and see what it gives
[17:54] <shadeslayer> one sec
[17:58] <Lex79> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/staging/+packages?field.name_filter=sr&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
[17:58] <seele> Riddell: printing ping
[17:58] <Lex79> you should reupload with karmic version instead of lucid
[18:02] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: im building for lucid too
[18:03] <shadeslayer> although im on karmic
[18:10] <Quintasan> \o
[18:12] <daskreech> Hi
[18:15] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: for lucid you just need to have one line in the rules file
[18:15] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: its easier now
[18:15] <ScottK> NCommander: https://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=python-qt4&arch=amd64&ver=4.6-1+b1&stamp=1264456357&file=log&as=raw
[18:15] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: include /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/qt-kde-team/1/debian-qt-kde.mk
[18:18] <shadeslayer> ok
[18:18] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: i remove the other 2?
[18:20] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: just leave the make -f
[18:20] <Riddell> seele: pong
[18:20] <_Groo_> and remove everything else, just leave the #make and the include.. nothing more
[18:21] <_Groo_> Riddell: hey Riddell
[18:21] <_Groo_> Riddell: any news on kdebindings?
[18:21] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: and everything else like DEB too>
[18:22] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: no no! in the rules file, and leave the make and the include, but dont touch control and etc...
[18:22] <Quintasan> _Groo_: I belive it will be fixed before 4.4 :P
[18:23] <Riddell> _Groo_: still compiling
[18:23] <_Groo_> Quintasan: whats breaking now?
[18:23] <ScottK> Riddell: Actually not.  Got caught by archive skew
[18:24] <_Groo_> ScottK: argh, the out of space ppa thing?
[18:24] <Quintasan> oh, I thought it's still broken, if Riddell says it's building it might be fixed no
[18:24] <seele> Riddell: so.. printing
[18:24] <ScottK> Although I don't understand how that's possible on i386
[18:24] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: ok it should look like this right : http://paste.ubuntu.com/363369/
[18:24] <seele> Riddell: what needs done and what do i need to do?
[18:25] <_Groo_> btw i STRONGLY recommend you guys think about using rekonq for 10.04.. with latest features, rekonq just rocks...
[18:25] <Riddell> seele: I need a week without a KDE or a Kubuntu release preferably
[18:25] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: thanks :)
[18:25] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: yeah thats it :)
[18:25] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: we dont have some features yet though
[18:25] <seele> Riddell: so what does that mean? end of Feb?
[18:26] <_Groo_> Riddell: can you point me to the ppa where kdebindings is compiling? i wanna get the diff and test locally to see if i can build it
[18:26] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: you mean lists?
[18:26] <Riddell> seele: I believe we have neither next week, maybe I'll manage then
[18:26] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: i mean rekonq still has randomn lockups on flash sites etc
[18:26] <Riddell> seele: if not you can kidnap me the week after and lock me in a room until I do it
[18:26] <Quintasan> :D
[18:26] <Riddell> _Groo_: it's in lucid
[18:27] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: did you tried the 0.3.33 build from yesterday? now it has support for multithreading , so the gui doesnt lock anymore
[18:27] <seele> Riddell: hmm.. that might have consequences i dont feel like dealing with
[18:27] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: lol im the docs maintainer so i have to be on the latest build :P
[18:27] <_Groo_> Riddell: really??? uploaded to main? cause i updated just a few hours ago
[18:28] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: i make my own packages for rekonq since 0.1 :) im not saying its perfect but its better then konqueror, and would allow to free space for kubuntu cd
[18:28] <Riddell> hello asac
[18:28] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: thats true :)
[18:29] <asac> Riddell: hi ;)
[18:30] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: but rather than giving users a half baked browser on a LTS i would suggest making arora default for the time being... maybe 10.10
[18:30] <asac> (wanted to join here for a bit for our liquid effort)
[18:31] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: arora isnt better then rekonq, i test them both and rekonq always have more features/more stable
[18:32] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: also now rekonq has integration for kget and kwallet, arora is a qt only app..
[18:32] <_Groo_> Riddell: wheres is kdebindings in lucid? cant find it
[18:33] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: btw just looking at the code and multi threads are only for the URL bar
[18:33] <ScottK> _Groo_: Didn't build yet
[18:33] <_Groo_> ScottK: i just need the diff.. im gonna build locally
[18:34] <Riddell> NCommander: python-qt4 failed on armel if you fancy an extra challenge
[18:34] <Lex79> asac: I'm running firefox 3.6 on lucid and seems it doesn't respect the antialiasing that I have in all KDE apps, is it a known issue?
[18:34] <ScottK> _Groo_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/kdebindings_4.3.95svn1080080-0ubuntu1.dsc
[18:34] <ScottK> Riddell: Someone retried it.
[18:35] <shadeslayer> anyways i cant think of the problem :P
[18:35] <NCommander> Riddell, ouch
[18:35]  * NCommander cries
[18:35] <shadeslayer> s/problem/solution to the problem
[18:35] <ScottK> Didn't take long to fail again, however
[18:36] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: see commit 3bbfba5e0757af9c02dc5cec637e51b67365a896
[18:36] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: hehe,rekonq hanged just when i tried to open facebook :P
[18:37] <ScottK> NCommander: More SIP fun: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-qt4/4.7.0-0ubuntu1/+build/1468670/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.python-qt4_4.7.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[18:38] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: working fine here... i dont have that many rekonq crashes nowadays.. are you using lucid/qt4.6 or karmic/qt4.5?
[18:38] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: rekonq is using multithreading for the loadUrl slot
[18:38] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: exactly
[18:38] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: for now :)
[18:38] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: Qt: 4.6.0
[18:38] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: i think hes already multithreaded since webkit IS multithreaded
[18:38] <asac> Lex79: yes its known
[18:39] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: karmic 4.4
[18:39] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: strange.. are you having weird hangs in other kde apps?
[18:39] <Lex79> asac: ok, thanks
[18:39] <asac> Lex79: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541319
[18:40] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: nope,just rekonq ><
[18:41] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: also theres a problem with the pop up bar,covers the bookmarks description in the fb bar at the bottom
[18:42] <shadeslayer> anyways i really should get rekonq packaged :P
[18:42] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: :)
[18:42] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: well compared with konqueror and chromium, rekonq is in good shape
[18:42] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: and its progressing very well and fast :)
[18:43] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: i think chromium > rekonq > konqueror , though in terms of KDE apps rekonq > konqueror > chromium
[18:45] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: my thought exactly... kubuntu would do better to ship rekonq instead of konqueror by default, or if have enough room , ship chromium instead of firefox
[18:45] <asac> Riddell: did you get my msg that the chromium was uploaded? (i had a reconnect around that time)
[18:45] <Riddell> asac: just accepted chromium, well done again on a heroic license evaluation feet
[18:46] <asac> wooooooooo
[18:46] <asac> Riddell: thanks!!
[18:46] <_Groo_> asac: what version?
[18:47] <asac> _Groo_: almost latest daily ... https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/4.0.305.0~svn20100123r36929-0ubuntu1
[18:47] <Riddell> s/feet/feat/  sheesh
[18:47] <asac> next upload will be from dev channel ... und the required changes for arm migrate to beta
[18:47] <asac> s/und/until/
[18:48] <_Groo_> asac: nice, good work :)
[18:48] <Nightrose> Riddell: is there anything else in the beta ppa than rc 2? i'm tempted to upgrade
[18:48] <Riddell> Nightrose: amarok - 2:2.2.1.90-0ubuntu1~karmic2
[18:48] <Riddell> digikam - 2:1.0.0-1ubuntu1~karmic1+ppa1
[18:49] <Riddell> kdevelop - 4:3.9.97a-0ubuntu1~karmic1~ppa1
[18:49] <Nightrose> k thx :)
[18:49] <Nightrose> ohhh kdevelop...
[18:49] <Nightrose> nice
[18:49] <Nightrose> you're tempting me... :D
[18:51] <_Groo_> Riddell: the beta ppa has kdebindings?
[18:51] <_Groo_> Riddell: and sip, python-qt4, etc ;)
[18:52] <Riddell> _Groo_: sip and pyqt yes, no kdebindings
[18:53] <_Groo_> Riddell: url pls? so i can upgrade sip and pyqt in order to build kdebindings XD
[18:53] <_Groo_> Riddell: sip/pyqt 4.10, correct?
[18:54] <Riddell> _Groo_: see kubuntu.org
[18:56] <_Groo_> Riddell: im on lucid, isnt the beta ppa karmic only?
[18:56]  * _Groo_ checks...
[18:56] <Lex79> sip/pyqt 4.10 are in archive
[18:57] <_Groo_> Lex79: ?? explain
[19:01] <Lex79> _Groo_: if you are on Lucid, open kpackagekit or whatever you use, and install what you need
[19:01] <_Groo_> Lex79: strangely isnt showing... let me switch from mirror to archive...
[19:01] <Lex79> well, btw
[19:02] <prefrontal> subversion in kubuntu lucid is compiled with --with-gnome-keyring. this triggers gnome keyring every time you perform a subversion action that requirs a password
[19:02] <Lex79> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-qt4
[19:02] <Lex79> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sip4-qt3
[19:02] <Lex79> it's not hard search a package in launchpad :)
[19:02] <prefrontal> i put store-passwords=no in ~/.subversion/config and that is not enough to disable this behavior
[19:02] <_Groo_> Lex79: i was searching in packages.ubuntu.com lol
[19:02] <_Groo_> dumb /me
[19:03] <Tm_T> prefrontal: "sudo update-alternatives --configure ssh-askpass" or something like that
[19:04] <prefrontal> Tm_T, do you know what it is other than ssh-askpass?
[19:05] <Tm_T> prefrontal: gnome-keyring has higher points or something, I guess
[19:05] <prefrontal> svn can also be configured with --with-kwallet
[19:06] <prefrontal> but i do not use a keyring or a wallet, making this extremely annoying
[19:06] <prefrontal> my gnome keyring doesn't even have a password so I can't perform svn actions
[19:07] <Tm_T> prefrontal: I think svn is configured with all those options
[19:07] <prefrontal> nor does gnome-keyring have a man page or --help options..
[19:35] <dantti> apachelogger: hmm reviewing that patch seems that there is on open IF and no FI to close it...
[19:35] <dantti> ah no... neverming
[19:36] <dantti> nevermind..
[19:37] <Tm_T> you already know 4.4 rc3 will be 28. or soon after
[19:40] <ScottK> prefrontal: It's also compiled with kwallet
[19:40] <ScottK> Or if it turns out it's not, that's a regression.  It was earlier in the cycle.
[19:42] <Tm_T> whole problem is because of ssh-askpass alternative choice
[19:49] <ScottK> Ah.
[19:49] <ScottK> Tm_T: Is there something here we need to make sure gets in the docs?
[19:49] <Tm_T> ScottK: no idea, sorry
[19:50] <ScottK> Tm_T: Is the problem prefrontal ran into going to be common for Kubuntu users do you think?
[19:50] <_Groo_> btw anyone knows when the modem 3g support in knetworkmanager will be fixed? ive seen they did some changes to dns support in the code, but i didnt test it yet
[19:51] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: jon are you the mantainer of networkmanager-kde?
[19:51] <ScottK> _Groo_: There was some discussion earlier about it working if you just change MTU to 1440
[19:51] <ScottK> There's a wiki page on it.
[19:51] <Tm_T> ScottK: if they install gnome, yes, as I'm pretty sure it sets itself as automatic choice
[19:51] <_Groo_> ScottK: but nm-applet use the same backend and it works fine without changes
[19:51] <JontheEchidna> _Groo_: I tend to keep the snapshots up to date, but Debian really does all the packaging and otherwise it's group maintained by kubuntu
[19:52] <ScottK> Tm_T: I don't have gnome itself installed here, but I hit the problem as well, so the keyring got pulled in by some depends/recommends.
[19:52] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: ah ok jon, i also do the ocasional package for it, but its only for personal use
[19:52] <ScottK> _Groo_: I'm just telling you what I've been told works.  I don't have the hardware.
[19:52] <Tm_T> ScottK: yes, also seahorse or whatitwas once stole my ssh keys, no, literally, stole
[19:53] <ScottK> Tm_T: Do you think you could reduce this discussion to a short paragraph and give it to nixternal for Kubuntu docs?
[19:53] <Tm_T> ScottK: "you don't need keys in ~/.ssh because I'm the application you use for now on"
[19:53] <ScottK> Nice
[19:53] <_Groo_> ScottK: thats old info, that mtu trick was to get a connection, that was fixed about 2 updates ago.. the problem now is that knetwork cant activate the correct dns settings, you are connected but you cant navigate, not even chagning resolv.conf manually
[19:54] <_Groo_> ScottK: aparently nm-applet calls a profile used by the backend that knetwork doesnt
[19:54] <ScottK> Sounds like a good topic for a bug report on bugs.kde.org.
[19:54] <Tm_T> ScottK: I have no time todat, I have tons of things to write already today atleast, but if it's in no hurry, I can try
[19:54] <ScottK> nixternal: What's the deadline for docs inputs?
[19:55] <ScottK> Tm_T: It's definitely not a needed today thing.
[19:55] <nixternal> beginning of march
[19:55] <Tm_T> ah, roger
[19:55] <ScottK> Tm_T: There you go.  A whole month
[19:55] <nixternal> no, not a whole month, if it needs to get in, need it this week :)
[19:55] <nixternal> the docs have been rewritten, so we are going to give translators much longer to work
[19:55] <ScottK> Oh.
[19:55] <Tm_T> nixternal: mind to email me reminder now? tmt@ubu
[19:55] <nixternal> but if it is small, then yes, take your time :)
[19:56] <ScottK> I'll send it.
[19:56]  * Tm_T hates this hurryness
[19:56] <ScottK> Tm_T: Sent
[19:57] <Tm_T> thanks son (:
[19:58] <ScottK> Son?  You aren't older than me are you?
[19:58] <nixternal> ScottK: god isn't older than you :p
[19:59] <JontheEchidna> oh snap
[19:59] <nixternal> haha
[19:59] <Tm_T> ScottK: you forgot I'm 114 years old these days? (;)
[19:59]  * JontheEchidna wonders if it's cool to say "oh snap" anymore...
[20:00] <ScottK> It's been a long time since I knew anything about what was cool.
[20:00] <ScottK> My metric these days is how much it embarasses my kids.
[20:01] <nixternal> I say groovy and my daughter says I am old
[20:01] <nixternal> lil emo punk
[20:01] <nixternal> half emo half hipster, what did I do to deserve that one :p
[20:01] <Quintasan> LOL
[20:02] <ScottK> nixternal: How old?  I've forgotten.
[20:02]  * Quintasan pats ScottK and nixternal
[20:02] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan: hi :)
[20:02]  * ScottK checks his wallet
[20:02] <nixternal> 13.5
[20:02] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: sup? :D
[20:02] <dhillon-v10> nixternal: hey there I just read your message on the list, you owned that guy :D
[20:02] <JontheEchidna> ScottK, nixternal: they're just mad that you're jiggy with the lingo :D
[20:02] <ScottK> Our $ELDEST was that way at that age.  It was pretty well gone by 16.
[20:02]  * shadeslayer finally uploads new rekonq version to PPA :P
[20:03] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan: nothing much, how about you
[20:03] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: One of the funny ones is $ELDEST getting annoyed everytime I say "Yo" thinking I'm trying to be gangsta.  I'm not.  I used to live in Philadelphia and that's how they talk there.
[20:03] <Quintasan> dhillon-v10: oh well, I've decided I'm going to ditch school for the rest of the week, half of the teachers are absent and we are doing nothing on lessons :/
[20:04] <dhillon-v10> Quintasan: we have a programming contest here, and seems like our team is going to own everyone :)
[20:04] <nixternal> I am gangsta, to the point she thanks I have mob ties :D
[20:04] <Quintasan> lol
[20:04] <ScottK> nixternal: You live in Chicago. Duh.
[20:04]  * Quintasan can't stop thinking YO like in "Yo nigga"
[20:04] <ScottK> Quintasan: Which is a phrase very offensive to some and ought not be used on Ubuntu channels.
[20:05] <nixternal> stereotypes, pfft...just because I live next to the Pemonte and Portillo family, and because they sit outside in shorts and wifebeaters, washing and waxing their cars all day, while 4 sit in the garage smoking cigars and playing poker, that doesn't mean they are mafia :)
[20:05] <JontheEchidna> give a big shoutout to all mah G's, namean?
[20:05] <dhillon-v10> lol
[20:06] <ScottK> My late first wife's family is Italian.  There are some cousins I was told "Don't ask what they do."
[20:06] <Quintasan> @_@
[20:06] <dhillon-v10> ScottK: lol :)
[20:06] <ScottK> dhillon-v10: I'm not kidding.
[20:06] <Lex79> uhmmmmmm
[20:06] <dhillon-v10> ScottK: wait u mean you are serious as in seriously serious ?
[20:06]  * Quintasan hifives Lex79
[20:06] <ScottK> dhillon-v10: Yes.
[20:06] <Lex79> uhmmmm :)
[20:07] <dhillon-v10> ScottK: oh
[20:07] <Quintasan> Lex79: you need to do *cough* *cough*
[20:07] <Quintasan> Lex79: catches more attention :P
[20:08] <Lex79> ehehe :)
[20:08] <nixternal> ScottK: I know quite a few people who I am not supposed to ask what they do
[20:08] <ScottK> Riddell: python-qt3 only has 4 reverse-build-depends left.  I wonder how hard it would be to make it go away entirely?
[20:09] <Quintasan> lol, nice application in Jono's PPA
[20:09] <ScottK> nixternal: I'm not suprised.
[20:09] <Quintasan> lolocopter
[20:09] <Quintasan> :D
[20:09] <JontheEchidna> roflcopter pwns all
[20:10] <Quintasan> I can't even start thinking about how useless this lolocopter is
[20:10] <Quintasan> @_@\
[20:11] <Quintasan> oh lawd
[20:11] <Quintasan> https://launchpad.net/lolocopter
[20:14] <shadeslayer> any ideas why : dpkg-source: warning: newly created empty file 'rekonq_0.3.33.tar.gz' will not be represented in diff
[20:15] <Riddell> ScottK: that is my preference, I don't think any are at all important
[20:16] <dhillon-v10> Riddell: can you have a look here: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/98783 what should I tell this guy ? could that be a bug
[20:16] <ScottK> nixternal: Any chance you could look at our Eric package and make the python-qt3 build-dep go away?
[20:16] <shadeslayer> complete pastebin : http://paste.ubuntu.com/363430/
[20:17] <Riddell> dhillon-v10: since you don't know the answer, don't give an answer
[20:17] <ScottK> dhillon-v10: That's not at all related to Kubuntu.  Please take it #launchpad in any case.
[20:17] <ScottK> (but I agree with Riddell)
[20:18] <Riddell> dhillon-v10: you have a habit of getting ahead of yourself, like you reviewed a patch for kdelibs without having every coded in that area
[20:18] <dhillon-v10> Riddell, ScottK yah I wasn't going to give the answer anyways, so I though I might ask you, but I will ask in #launchpad, btw i never answer questions that i don't know of though
[20:18] <nixternal> ScottK: I can look at that beast
[20:19] <ScottK> nixternal: Thanks.
[20:21] <ScottK> dhillon-v10: I will remind you that my first interaction with you was a bogus answer you gave to a question I asked on Launchpad.  You might consider a tighter filter on what you think you know the answer to.
[20:22] <marcosRz> guys
[20:22] <marcosRz> its here that is discussed kpackagekit?
[20:23] <dhillon-v10> ScottK: I keep that in mind every time I come to this channel :) I guess I am better off not worrying about launchpad stuff
[20:23] <ScottK> I think if you are going to focus, you actually ought to do it.
[20:24] <marcosRz> Guys, I'm going to checkout kpackagekit to fix it
[20:24] <marcosRz> seriously
[20:24] <marcosRz> kpackagekit is wayyyy worse than synaptic
[20:24] <dhillon-v10> ScottK: I am actually doing a lot, I got the kde web bugs down to like 5 or so that really need to be worked upon, also working on the docs and did a lot of bugs there, now starting off with kdelibs
[20:25] <marcosRz> yo
[20:25] <marcosRz> whos responsible for kpackagekit?
[20:26] <ScottK> dhillon-v10: I understand this.  I think you'd be better of focusing in some areas and doing those few things well before learning new ones.
[20:26] <ScottK> marcosRz: dantti
[20:26] <marcosRz> ok great
[20:26] <marcosRz> I'm going to talk to him, so maybe I can help with kpackagekit because right know its the worst gui front-end I've ever used for dpkg
[20:27] <Riddell> harsh
[20:28] <marcosRz> I'm serious
[20:28] <marcosRz> this is ridiculous --> http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2392/imagem1zq.png
[20:29] <marcosRz> Having to use synaptic on kubuntu
[20:30] <dhillon-v10> ScottK: you are right, my apologies, same to you Riddell
[20:30] <marcosRz> this is the times that I hate canonical, they treat kubuntu as a side project
[20:30] <marcosRz> all the glorry and cool and polish stuff goes to ubuntu
[20:32] <ScottK> marcosRz: In fairness, synaptic wasn't developed by Canonical.
[20:32] <nixternal> marcosRz: I hate to admit it, but in this case you aren't correct with that statement...now if you were to bash the software store or whatever it is called, then you would be closer
[20:32] <nixternal> and...shit, ScottK said what I was going to say
[20:33] <ScottK> nixternal: You are a slow old man.
[20:33] <ScottK> ;-)
[20:33] <maco> which of you is older?
[20:33] <nixternal> I knew that would come back to bite me :p
[20:33] <ScottK> I am.
[20:33] <nixternal> ScottK is older
[20:33] <marcosRz> I know but synaptic was like shit on conectiva, and then they added a bunch of stuff
[20:33] <nixternal> god asks him for advice
[20:34] <maco> conectiva? as in the thing that mixed with mandrake to get mandriva?
[20:34] <marcosRz> yes
[20:34] <maco> but i think mandriva was rpm-based
[20:34] <nixternal> $deity asks him for advice, don't want to disrespect
[20:34] <maco> s/think/thought/
[20:34] <marcosRz> conectiva was debian based
[20:34] <marcosRz> @_@
[20:34] <nixternal> oh wow, I remember connectiva
[20:34] <maco> weird
[20:34] <Riddell> conectiva ported apt to rpm
[20:34] <maco> oh, thats who thought that was a good idea?
[20:35] <ScottK> Which is the only thing that saved me when I ran opensuse
[20:35] <maco> heh well yeah...if yast's your alternative....
[20:35] <maco> but they have zypper now!
[20:35] <maco> and it doesnt suck!
[20:35] <ScottK> It did in opensuse 10.1
[20:35] <marcosRz> seriously
[20:35] <marcosRz> It seems that noone treats kde "correctly"
[20:36] <nixternal> i do
[20:36] <marcosRz> And the one that gets closer is openSuse
[20:36] <marcosRz> They actually care about KDE
[20:36] <marcosRz> even through they hire a bunch of gnome guys
[20:36] <ScottK> marcosRz: It's not all one way.  We have less Canonical support than Ubuntu, but the community has a lot more say in Kubuntu than Ubuntu.  Personally, I'm good with that tradeoff.
[20:37] <marcosRz> I don't think so. I mean canonical is moved by "Ubuntu", they can say that they care about the "derivated" K/X/L, but they don't. They care if Ubuntu gets better.
[20:37] <marcosRz> See how many inovations Canonical has pushed with gnome than with kde.
[20:39] <marcosRz> I understand that Kubuntu is cool, but it doesnt get any attention/work from canonical like Ubuntu
[20:39] <neversfelde> Riddell: bug 510244 says, that choqok is synced, but it is not in lucid?
[20:41] <ScottK> marcosRz: Actually the main Canonical user experience development for this cycle (dbus menu) is done for Kubuntu first.
[20:41] <ScottK> So what you are saying is significantly less true than it used to be.
[20:41] <marcosRz> so thats why I'm willing to help Kpackagekit better
[20:41] <maco> marcosRz: have you considered that we might not accept their changes until after upstream kde says "ok" to them, which adds a layer of slowyness to it?
[20:41] <ScottK> That is another point.
[20:42] <ScottK> There are things we don't have that Ubuntu does because upstream KDE said no and we follow KDE with very few exceptions.
[20:43] <marcosRz> I think that the point of a distribution
[20:43] <marcosRz> Get a vanilla pkg (kde) and integrate it.
[20:43] <ScottK> That's what we try to do.
[20:43] <marcosRz> It like Ubuntu GNOME is way different than vanilla gnome and other gnomes, for example Fedora.
[20:43] <ScottK> Yep
[20:44] <marcosRz> If I wanted a vanilla distro, I would keep using Arch/Gentoo.
[20:44] <marcosRz> I wanted integrated stuff
[20:44] <marcosRz> Its like firefox
[20:44] <JontheEchidna> We usually push our integrations upstream wherever possible, so that everyone can have the benefits
[20:44] <marcosRz> Look at opensuse firefox, and look at kubuntu firefox
[20:44] <ScottK> We're working on integrating the patches in this cycle
[20:44] <marcosRz> openSuse integration on firefox is way better than Kubuntu
[20:45] <Riddell> neversfelde: I'll sync it now
[20:45] <nixternal> we didn't integrate the patches last cycle because per openSUSE they were a) unstable and b) incomplete
[20:45] <marcosRz> when You use KDE in openSuse you don't know if it's kde or gnome because apps are so integrated
[20:45] <JontheEchidna> ^plus came a month before final release of 9.10
[20:45] <marcosRz> cool nixternal
[20:46] <nixternal> though now, the patches seem more stable, but according to openSUSE still incomplete, which i think we can live with this cycle
[20:46] <Riddell> neversfelde: should be it done this time, not sure what went wrong
[20:47] <nixternal> speaking of package managers though, is it planned for a kubuntu software center or whatever it is called?
[20:47] <neversfelde> Riddell: ok
[20:47] <nixternal> I don't use any of the graphical package managers nor follow their development
[20:48] <nixternal> first time I fired up kpackagekit in a long time...what are the major complaints with it these days?
[20:49] <nixternal> only annoyance I see is "all packages" doesn't list anything in the Software Management tab, but seems to work when you select something else in the drop down
[20:49] <ScottK> The only thing I use it for is the update notification and it's "unpleasant"
[20:49] <nixternal> what would make it pleasant?
[20:49] <nixternal> is it being addressed?
[20:50] <ScottK> I talked to dantti about it earlier today.  I think so.
[20:50] <ScottK> Personally, I like the little icon in the tray.
[20:51] <marcosRz> nixternal: the problem with kpackagekit is that its unusable
[20:51] <ScottK> I find the huge pop-up really annoying
[20:51] <marcosRz> of course you can install pkg there, but only that
[20:51] <nixternal> marcosRz: how is it unusable, please provide some details
[20:51] <marcosRz> example
[20:51] <ScottK> marcosRz: Over generalizations aren't helpful
[20:51] <marcosRz> it's like a media player that just play music
[20:51] <marcosRz> Kpackagkit, just install packages
[20:51] <nixternal> what should it do? take you dancing?
[20:51] <marcosRz> it filtes sucks, it doesnt havy any repository views, any depedency view
[20:51] <marcosRz> nah
[20:52] <marcosRz> For example
[20:52] <marcosRz> When you clickon  a package, for example "phpmyadmin" , it won't select the dependency right away
[20:52] <marcosRz> so
[20:52]  * claydoh_ uses kpackagekit almost exclusively
[20:53] <marcosRz> I'll checkout the code, and add this view
[20:53] <claydoh> but it still adds the deps, and tells you what itnis going to do
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> I hear that the dependency calculation has been condensed to one dialog in KPK 0.5
[20:54] <marcosRz> for example claydoh ,, right know it doesnt have any support for debconf
[20:54] <nixternal> it is adding the deps for me, I noticed that "File List", "Depends on", and "Required by" don't seem to work though
[20:55] <marcosRz> for example if you install mysql, it wont ask for root password like on synaptic, or even apt-get on cli
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> File list works for installed packages here
[20:55] <marcosRz> for the root password of the mysql server
[20:55] <marcosRz> no support for debconf
[20:55] <claydoh> marcosRz: I haven't come across that one yet, though I haven't installed java  in a while :)\
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> dantti was working on debconf for PackageKit, iirc
[20:56] <marcosRz> claydoh: yeah, java is a example. You don't need to accept the eula, they accept on -quiet for you lol
[20:56] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: ahh, you are right
[20:56]  * neversfelde wonders who installs a mysql server with a graphical tool
[20:56] <marcosRz> neversfelde: bunch of tutorials on howtoforge XD
[20:56] <marcosRz> they all rely on debconf
[20:56] <claydoh> i think that many end-users may miss the simpler basic package manager we used to have
[20:56] <marcosRz> most of them
[20:56] <nixternal> yeah, howtoforge is silly in some cases
[20:57] <claydoh> the name escapes me
[20:57] <JontheEchidna> adept?
[20:57] <claydoh> the simpler version of it
[20:57] <JontheEchidna> Adept Installer
[20:57] <claydoh> thats it :)
[20:59] <nixternal> also, with karmic we were using an older kpackagekit, and iirc, a lot of the issues have been addressed in a newer version of kpackagekit that depends on the new packagekit
[20:59] <nixternal> which would be nice if it were all done before string and gui freezes, *hint hint*
[21:00] <Riddell> it's on my todo for tomorrow
[21:00] <nixternal> never put off for tomorrow for which you can do today :p
[21:01] <nixternal> http://www.packagekit.org/pk-screenshots.html#kde <- are these new or old screenshots of kpackagekit?
[21:02] <claydoh> some look older
[21:03] <claydoh> yeah, i think it is older, looks plainer than my karmic version
[21:06] <Riddell> shtylman: mvo added a patch for ubiquity on bug 510853
[21:20] <ScottK> matplotlib uploaded.  3 reverse-build-depnds for python-qt3 left ....
[22:14] <ScottK> Unfortunately runtime depends are a lot more now that I look at that.....
[22:16] <ScottK> Riddell: I take back what I said about removing python-qt3.  My wife would kill me if I had a part in removing mnemosyne.
[22:23] <emgent> apachelogger: ping
[22:41] <nixternal> ScottK: isn't there another flash card tool out there that is a) kept up to date, b) doesn't require *qt3, and c) works the same if not better?
[22:42] <ScottK> mnemosyne has some pretty unique capabilities.  They have a Qt4 version in development, I'll check with upstream and see how it's going.
[22:43] <nixternal> http://edu.kde.org/kwordquiz/
[22:44] <nixternal> that's what I was thinking of...dunno it is contains everything that mnemosyne does, but my daughter at least uses it for studying...finally, got her using a KDE app
[22:44] <crimsun> Riddell: having both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop installed does /bad/ things
[22:44] <crimsun> JontheEchidna: 17:44 < crimsun> Riddell: having both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop installed does /bad/ things
[22:45] <nixternal> crimsun: that's why we need kubuntu-desktop to Conflict|Replace ubuntu-desktop :p
[22:46] <crimsun> JontheEchidna: / Riddell: if Kubuntu switches to use PA-enabled Qt, then this issue will go away, but as it stands, installing (k)ubuntu-desktop on top of the other inevitably results in broken sound for some user
[22:47] <Riddell> we really don't want them to conflict
[22:47] <Riddell> and I don't know what you mean by PA enabled Qt, we have Phonon and it should work with pulseaudio
[22:47] <crimsun> Riddell: Phonon is certainly not configured by default to prefer PA
[22:48] <crimsun> I think we can drop them to recommends, but this is going to be nasty either way.
[22:48] <crimsun> so really, yes, we do want them to conflict.
[22:49] <crimsun> unless you want to have fun setting global environment variables for libsdl1.2?
[22:56] <crimsun> I think what should happen here is that people who want both installed should know during the second's installation process that stuff could explode, but they should be allowed to reinstall libsdl1.2debian-foo
[22:56] <crimsun> so, something like this:
[23:00] <crimsun> actually, I think I'll just revert the addition to kubuntu-common, and everything will be happy
[23:00] <crimsun> well, everything for Kubuntu
[23:01] <crimsun> kubuntu-desktop users who install ubuntu-desktop will forcibly get PA, and they'll just live with it (which is Karmic behavior)
[23:01] <crimsun> ubuntu-desktop users who install kubuntu-desktop won't see any change (which is Karmic behavior)
[23:02] <Riddell> crimsun: why do we even need libsdl?
[23:04] <crimsun> Riddell: build-dependency of xine-lib, which you use as the Phonon backend
[23:08] <crimsun> fixed in r891
[23:45] <Lex79> kdebindings is in "binary new" https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebindings/4:4.3.95svn1080080-0ubuntu1
[23:46] <Riddell> yay
[23:46] <Lex79> :)