[04:33] <micahg> ubuntu package bugs pages have been timing out for 3 days
[04:34] <micahg> on edge, regular LP works
[04:35] <mwhudson> micahg: can you check the same page on staging?
[04:36] <wgrant> That's known.
[04:36] <wgrant> I think the fix landed over night.
[04:36]  * wgrant checks.
[04:36] <wgrant> Yes, db-devel r8929
[04:36] <wgrant> So edge will remain broken until release.
[04:37] <micahg> yep
[04:37] <micahg> broke on staging
[04:37] <micahg> k
[04:39] <mwhudson> oh right, i think staging might be down entirely...
[04:46] <j^> hi, i want to import bugs from an old bug tracker
[04:46] <j^> i created an xml import file with the track migration code
[04:46] <j^> whats the next step?
[04:47] <j^> *xml created with trac-launchpad-migrator
[04:48] <wgrant> j^: Wait for the response on that question of yours. The Bugs developers were sprinting last week. If you don't get a response, perhaps poke gmb in here during London working hours.
[04:49] <j^> ok
[07:25] <mrooney> hello all, does anyone know if it is possible to have launchpad import translations automatically from an arbitrary branch, ie not just the "main" branch associated with the project?
[07:26] <dpm> jtv1, ^
[07:27] <mrooney> thanks :)
[07:31] <mrooney> I guess maybe I could make a 'translations' series and set the branch for that to my desired branch
[07:34] <al-maisan> Good morning!
[07:35] <mrooney> as a side question, does anyone know if a bug involving the display of launchpad.net/foobar/+translations is a bug in launchpad or rosetta?
[07:37] <dpm> mrooney, the Translations devs are not here yet, so in case you don't get any answer, you might want to try a bit later on
[07:41] <mrooney> dpm: okay, thanks :)
[07:51] <jtv> mrooney: it depends... can you show me what's going wrong?
[07:51] <jtv> (Sorry for the delay... a guy called Nick Serv was trying to pick a fight with me)
[07:52] <mrooney> jtv: https://translations.launchpad.net/wxbanker/trunk/+translations sort by last changed
[07:52] <mrooney> it seems to do a string sort, making "14 hours ago" the oldest
[07:53] <jtv> mrooney: yes, unfortunately it's a naïve string sort
[07:54] <jtv> as for whose bug it is... that is a matter of long-standing debate.  :)
[07:54] <mrooney> haha. is it already filed or shall I?
[07:54] <jtv> it's already filed somewhere... probably a long time ago.
[07:54] <mrooney> :'[
[07:56] <mrooney> if you happen to be able to dig it up, let me know, I was unable to find it but would love to subscribe
[07:56] <jtv> mrooney: actually, there's a whole constellation of concerns with this stuff; I don't think the specific issue of date sorting has been filed yet.
[07:57] <jtv> mrooney: one thing that I could imagine us doing is to embed a "normalized" date like 2010-01-26 invisibly in the HTML, and sorting by that.
[07:58] <jtv> But it does bloat the html and js, without fixing the wider problems of column-sorting.
[08:04] <jtv> hi jelmer!
[08:04] <jelmer> hey Jeroen!
[08:13] <dupondje> somebody else has the problem that the right part of launchpad is not floating right ?
[08:13] <dupondje> but on the right under the main items ?
[08:14] <persia> dupondje: Yep.
[08:14] <dupondje> who fucked the css ? ;)
[08:14] <persia> bug #493518
[08:14] <dupondje> k :)
[08:14] <persia> Someone probably ought set that Fix Committed, because it's fixed on edge.
[08:15] <persia> Also, !ohmy
[08:15] <persia> Err.
[08:15] <persia> !ohmy
[08:16] <persia> (Not that this is precisely an Ubuntu channel, but the same guidelines apply)
[08:23] <jtv> mrooney: the broken sorting is done in sorttable.js, which apparently is 3rd-party stuff...  It does have separate provisions for sorting by date, in theory, but pretty ugly and mostly irrelevant to us.
[09:34] <KaOS-bEat> There's a bug I want to report and launchpad always ends with an oops, contact an administrator, erasing all my careful bugreporting... so why is the oops, and how do I report a bug in such case?
[09:35] <persia> KaOS-bEat: What URL are you using to report the bug?
[09:35] <KaOS-bEat> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
[09:36] <persia> Hrm.  I used that yesterday successfully, and wouldn't think it would be hit by the known timeouts issue.
[09:36] <KaOS-bEat> well, I was clicking on "this bug affects me too and got a similar OOPS"
[09:36] <persia> If you paste the OOPS ID it generates a URL that lets support folk review the issue.  That said, there doesn't seem to be a support contact right now.
[09:36] <persia> (see /topic)
[09:38] <KaOS-bEat> ok, I'll just try again, I typed it into a text editor lkast time, so I can just copy paste it back
[09:40] <KaOS-bEat> persia: ok bug submitted :)
[09:40] <KaOS-bEat> it didn't work the first three times :)
[09:41] <persia> Annoying, that.
[09:47] <wgrant> KaOS-bEat: Why are you using ?no-redirect?
[10:16] <KaOS-bEat> wgrant: I don't know, I just ckicked through, I didn't manually add this
[10:40] <lifeless> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~om26er is timing out for me, is this a known issue?
[10:40] <lifeless> OOPS-1487EA546
[11:25] <persia> lifeless: edge timeouts have been reported a *lot* recently.  I saw a comment that there was a fix that might land with the next release.  production seems to timeout less.
[11:26] <lifeless> persia: yes, its an edge bug and there is a fix going to pqm ~ now as it happens
[11:27] <persia> Aha!
[12:39] <jtv> mrooney: bug 512718... adiroiban and/or Ursinha may possibly know more about it
[12:49] <matsubara> jpds, ping
[12:50] <jpds> matsubara: Hi.
[13:52] <hyperair> is there a way to use the email interface to change the status of distro release targets? e.g. ubuntu/pm-utils/karmic or something?
[13:52] <hyperair> it's quite annoying to not be able to change the statuses of multiple targets in a bug at once.
[13:53] <hyperair> especially when touching a particularly large bug report with a particularly large number of comments over a slow connection.
[13:56] <akheron> I've uploaded an invalid orig.tar.gz to a PPA, can it be overridden somehow?
[13:57] <noodles775> akheron: only by incrementing the version and re-uploading.
[13:57] <noodles775> oic
[13:57] <akheron> incrementing the upstream version...
[13:58] <akheron> which isn't really in my hands, right :)
[14:00] <noodles775> akheron: sure. If you build another source package and include the new valid orig.tar.gz and dput that to you PPA, it should just work (as the md5 won't match the previous one)?
[14:00] <noodles775> (just a guess, but bigjools will know).
[14:00] <noodles775> s/another/another version of your
[14:01] <akheron> no
[14:02] <akheron> I uploaded another version and got rejected because the orig.tar.gz doesn't match the one already uploaded
[14:02] <noodles775> akheron: ok, I'll dig around, what's the exact error?
[14:02] <akheron> OTOH, this upload didn't supersede the previous one as it was for hardy and the previous one was for karmic
[14:03] <akheron> Rejected:
[14:03] <akheron> File jansson_1.2.orig.tar.gz already exists in PPA for Petri Lehtinen, but uploaded version has
[14:03] <akheron> different contents.
[14:03] <noodles775> Thanks.
[14:08] <wgrant> hyperair: affects ubuntu/karmic/pm-utils
[14:09] <wgrant> akheron: You cannot upload a different file with the same name.
[14:09] <akheron> yeah, seems reasonable
[14:10] <mars> deryck, just wondering if you caught this: http://davidsiegel.org/improving-bug-workflow-for-opportunistic-programmers/
[14:10] <deryck> mars, no.  will look later, thanks!
[14:10] <akheron> wgrant: so I have to mangle the upstream version somehow
[14:10] <noodles775> wgrant: so he has to supply an orig.tar.gz that's different....
[14:11] <noodles775> (what he said :)
[14:12] <jtv> If Mr. Patrick of HSBC really wants to transfer "$22,500,000.00 Dollars" to my account he could at least say whether they're US$ or HK$.
[14:24] <maxb> akheron: Generally people will append a short alphabetic string to the upstream version in this sort of situation
[14:24] <maxb> e.g. 1.2.3repack
[14:30] <akheron> maxb: ok
[14:30] <akheron> thinking again, I think I can live with the orig.tar.gz
[14:38] <lifeless> abentley: around?
[14:38] <lifeless> abentley: I have a vcs-imports <-> branch question
[14:38] <abentley> lifeless: Shoot
[14:38] <lifeless> this branch; https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/utils/main
[14:38] <lifeless> is a vcs import
[14:38] <lifeless> it is trunk for lp:utils
[14:39] <lifeless> however, we want to 'delete' lp:utils (or at least make it readonly or something) as there is also a project 'lp:bluez-utils'
[14:39] <lifeless> which is the same thing but more sensibly named
[14:39] <lifeless> however, https://edge.launchpad.net/bluez-utils/main has no branch associated ;)
[14:40] <lifeless> whats the best way to get a vcs import, of the url that https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/utils/main imports from, for https://edge.launchpad.net/bluez-utils/main
[14:40] <lifeless> I'm happy with renaming the branch across projects (if that works), push + pull + setup a new import, or whatever you recommend
[14:40] <lifeless> in fact, all the branches of lp:utils can sensibly be moved to lp:bluez-utils via a DB query, I suspect
[14:41] <lifeless> as lp:bluez-utils has no branches
[14:41] <lifeless> mthaddon: or perhaps we should delete bluez-utils and then do a rename
[14:42] <lifeless> mthaddon: no translations, bugs or specs in bluez-utils. I think we should delete it.
[14:43] <abentley> lifeless: The normal thing would be to just create a new import.
[14:43] <abentley> lifeless: I have no idea whether anyone is using lp:utils right now.
[14:43] <lifeless> mthaddon: the package bluez-utils has been renamed to bluez in Ubuntu I think. compare https://edge.launchpad.net/bluez-utils https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez
[14:43] <lifeless> abentley: And its ok to have two imports pointing at the same url ?
[14:43] <abentley> lifeless: If people are using it, deleting the project would break their link.
[14:44] <abentley> lifeless: I don't know whether it's okay to have two imports pointing at the same URL.  I'm guessing it is.
[14:45] <lifeless> abentley: I'm very sure they are not using it currently based on last modified dates for the 3 branches that are there.
[14:45] <lifeless> more than 1 year for all except a stale packaging branch
[14:45] <abentley> lifeless: On the whole, I'm okay with deleting it, because it's such a bad name.
[14:45] <bialix> hi, some odd question maybe, about translations @ LP (former Rosetta)
[14:46] <bialix> is it possible to use this service for closed source software?
[14:46] <henninge> bialix: shoot!
[14:46] <lifeless> abentley: there is also a libs, but it can be renamed because there isn't a bluez-libs yet
[14:46] <henninge> bialix: you will have to talk to bac about commercial subsriptions.
[14:47] <abentley> lifeless: So, I don't think you need an admin to disable the bluez-utils project and then rename the utils project to bluez-utils.
[14:47] <henninge> bialix: You can restrict who can do translations for you project.
[14:47] <lifeless> abentley: do you mean I can do it ?
[14:47] <henninge> bialix: but Rosetta does not have any privacy features, if that is what you want.
[14:47] <bac> bialix:  yes, you can use launchpad for closed source but we require you to purchase a commercial-use subscription
[14:47] <abentley> lifeless: Yes, because you are a registry expert.
[14:47] <bac> bialix:  yes, your translation strings will be exposed.
[14:48] <bialix> that's ok
[14:48] <lifeless> abentley: so, for clarity. you are suggesting clicking the 'active' field in 'review project'
[14:49] <abentley> lifeless: Right.
[14:49] <lifeless> abentley: how do you rename projects though? It used to be in +admin, but +admin isn't given by registry-experts
[14:49] <bialix> bac: so, if I'm OK to expose my strings, but don't host my branches there? is it OK?
[14:50] <lifeless> abentley: mthaddon so I've made bluez-utils inactive
[14:50] <lifeless> mthaddon: ^
[14:50] <bialix> I will give a talk about gettext and Rosetta this saturday, so if people will ask me about this for their project, what should I answer them to be correct?
[14:50] <abentley> lifeless: I guess you can't change the name of a project, only its title and display name?
[14:51] <maxb> bialix: I believe it says somewhere that you must licence your strings as BSD to use rosetta
[14:51] <mthaddon> lifeless: so what's been suggested (I haven't been following all of backscroll)?
[14:51] <bialix> maxb: that's fine
[14:51] <henninge> bialix: hosting your branches is not a requirement for free Launchpad usage but that the source code is available somewhere.
[14:51] <henninge> bialix: AFAIK we actually do have a privacy feature for branches - with a commercial subscription.
[14:51] <lifeless> mthaddon: current bluez-utils -> delete. rename utils to bluez-utils
[14:52] <lifeless> mthaddon: AFAICT rename is still admin only, not registry-experts (and we should change that, I think).
[14:52] <mthaddon> lifeless: and that isn't going to break anything for any of the distro folks?
[14:52] <bialix> henninge: so if the po files available under BSD and hosted at LP?
[14:52] <henninge> bialix: no ;-)
[14:52] <bialix> is it derived work in some sort?
[14:52] <henninge> bialix: the po files can be GPL
[14:53] <henninge> or anything else
[14:53] <bialix> ok, GPL
[14:53] <bialix> they are not linked with main code
[14:53] <bialix> mo files used as is
[14:53] <lifeless> mthaddon: I've found nothign on bluez-utils except some packaging links that I'm switching over to the utils project now
[14:54] <mthaddon> lifeless: done
[14:54] <henninge> bialix: any translations added in Launchpad will be BSD licensed but once  you export the po file again, it is a derivative of the original file and therefore GPL'ed.
[14:55] <henninge> talking about the file as a whole while single strings may be BSD because they were created in LP.
[14:55] <henninge> s/may/will/
[14:55] <bialix> henninge: ok, then I publish the po, translate it to mo and use it with my application?
[14:56] <bialix> henninge: bac: so safe answer: buy commercial license?
[14:56] <lifeless> mthaddon: thanks, I see you've renamed it to -old
[14:56] <bialix> and then do what you need?
[14:56] <henninge> bialix: Now I understand what you are getting at
[14:56] <mthaddon> lifeless: yep, you can't delete projects in LP
[14:56] <henninge> !
[14:56] <lifeless> mthaddon: we have one remaining packaging link that the web ui won't let us fix. jelmer is going to put togethe ra little db update for us
[14:56] <mthaddon> lifeless: and a bug report I assume?
[14:56] <bac> bialix:  yes, if your overall product is closed source then you'll need the commercial subscription.  they are US$250/project/year.
[14:57] <henninge> bialix: In order to use Launchpad for free, the source code must be open source. If the source code is not open source, buy a commercial license. This is independent of how you license the po files.
[14:57] <lifeless> mthaddon: once i get confirmation that it is duplicate, uneditable data - hell yes.
[14:57] <bialix> henninge: bac: ok, many thanks for clarifications!
[14:57] <mthaddon> cool
[14:58] <bac> bialix:  np.  contact me directly if you have additional questions.
[14:58] <henninge> bialix: licensing po files as GPL when the source code is closed source is tricky, though.
[14:59] <bialix> bac: I have one more: why commercial usage is not promoted as on github or bitbucket? It's really hard to get this sort of info
[14:59] <lifeless> heh, commercial usage came up nearly every day at lca.
[14:59] <lifeless> folk want it
[14:59] <henninge> bialix: The internationlized version of the program could be viewed as derivative work of the translations and therefore be violating the GPL if it's not GPL'ed.
[14:59] <bialix> henninge: I don't understand?
[15:00] <bialix> mo files are not linked in the usual sense
[15:00] <henninge> bialix: that is why I said "may" ;-)
[15:00] <lifeless> henninge: mmmm not really. You could argue its not 'mere aggregation' but it is definitely not derivation
[15:00] <bialix> okay :-)
[15:01] <henninge> bialix, lifeless: All I am saying that it's shaky legal ground, AFAIK.
[15:01] <bialix> henninge: fair enough for me
[15:01] <henninge> bialix: publish po files as BSD and you are fine.
[15:02]  * bialix nods
[15:02] <abentley> lifeless: But if I translate Les Miserables into English, that's certainly a derived work, so I guess it's a matter of degree.
[15:03] <bac> bialix:  fair point.  we do have links off the front page of LP but should promote it more conspicuously
[15:04] <lifeless> abentley: the translations are derived
[15:04] <lifeless> abentley: but if you have an opera reporter that takes data files in any language, and you feed it your english les mis, th ereporter doesn't become a derivation of les mis :)
[15:05] <lifeless> bac: noone hits the front page ;)
[15:05] <lifeless> bac: because its static and unchanging there is little of interest to users.
[15:05] <bac> lifeless:  you're right!  i think we need a pop-up banner on each page advertising commercial subscriptions!  :)
[15:06] <lifeless> bac: might be overboard, but yes.
[15:06] <bac> that'll endear us to our users...
[15:06] <lifeless> I do think a 'commercial services' link in the footer might be useful.
[15:06] <lifeless> or something
[15:07] <lifeless> certainly I suspect folk haven't googled for 'launchpad closed source' if they have trouble figuring this out
[15:09] <bialix> lifeless: the answer https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/40633 said you can't host private branches
[15:09] <bialix> do you know better answer?
[15:10] <bialix> this is btw the first link google gave me
[15:14] <henninge> bialix: That is outdated. I added a comment. Thanks for the pointer! :)
[15:14] <bialix> maybe not a pop-up banner but something in the footer in light gray will be nice to have
[15:15] <henninge> bialix: please file a bug!
[15:15] <bialix> sorry, not today
[15:16]  * bialix often hard to understand where to file bugs against some parts of lp itself
[15:16] <henninge> bialix: true, if in doubt file it on /launchpad, it should get sorted correctly from there.
[15:17]  * bialix will try to remember
[16:25] <bencer> i'm building asterisk on my ppa, but it seems it doesn't wget the sound files needed to build the package, are downloads cut off on the build hosts ?
[16:26] <ScottK> bencer: Yes.
[16:26] <ScottK> This is a feature, not a bug.
[16:26] <bencer> ScottK: are debian buildd hosts configured the same way ?
[16:26] <ScottK> bencer: Yes.
[16:27] <bencer> ok, going to see how to fix this, thanks
[17:02] <bdrung> who approved the gnome-colors imports? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/gnome-colors/trunk can be dropped now.
[17:22] <jamalta> Hey, sorry if I'm asking in the wrong place, but I added a PPA and the packages aren't showing up in apt-get after an update
[17:22] <jamalta> The PPA in question is https://edge.launchpad.net/~mjeanson/+archive/iphone/+packages
[17:23] <jamalta> It seems the PPA added succesfully
[17:23] <jamalta> I can see it listed in Software Soruces, along with the key
[17:23] <bigjools> jamalta: how do you know it added successfully?
[17:23] <bigjools> ok
[17:23] <jamalta> bigjools: Any other way of testing?
[17:24] <jamalta> His key is also showing up in software sources / Authentication
[17:24] <bigjools> apt-get update, then apt-get install something from that PPA
[17:24] <jamalta> bigjools: i've done apt-get update a few times :(
[17:24] <bigjools> did you try installing one of his packages?
[17:24] <bigjools> you can also do apt-cache show <packagename>
[17:24] <deadwill> guys, i need some help to merge my old LP account.
[17:25] <jamalta> bigjools: yeah, shows the wrong version (the version that is in the main repos)
[17:25] <jamalta> bigjools: and for new packages, it cant' find them at all
[17:25] <bigjools> jamalta: check your /etc/apt/sources.list
[17:25] <jamalta> bigjools: it shows up as a .list file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[17:26] <jamalta> the syntax looks right as far as i can tell
[17:26] <jamalta> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mjeanson/iphone/ubuntu karmic main
[17:27] <jamalta> and just made sure I am on Karmic, with amd64 ;)
[17:27] <bigjools> so if you do apt-get install ifuse=0.9.5-1~karmic1 does it work?
[17:28] <jamalta> bigjools: well, i wasn't aware of that syntax
[17:28] <jamalta> it looks to be working
[17:28] <jamalta> oddly enough it's downloading the packages from the right place
[17:28] <bigjools> so something is superseding the version you want
[17:28] <jamalta> from the ppa i mean
[17:28] <jamalta> bigjools: right, seems like that's the case
[17:28] <bigjools> you must have already installed it?
[17:28] <bigjools> anyway, glad to have pointed you in the right direction
[17:29]  * bigjools leaves for the day
[17:29] <jamalta> bigjools: i didn't have either version installed.. but thanks so much, it seems to be working :)
[17:29] <jamalta> bigjools: have a great rest of the day then :)
[17:29] <bigjools> np :)
[17:39] <NateW> how would you delete ppa's?
[17:40] <ScottK> You don't.
[17:40] <NateW> ScottK: isnt it possible for an admin to delete it from your account?
[17:40] <ScottK> Not currently.
[17:41] <NateW> Can you hide them?
[17:43] <ScottK> You can disable them
[17:44] <rdb> hey jcastro
[17:44] <rdb> 15:36 < jcastro> rdb: it's in the development release of ubuntu already, so someone just needs to backport it
[17:45] <rdb> however, according to this: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/nvidia-cg-toolkit its still the installer package
[17:46] <rdb> Or am I missing something?
[17:47] <jcastro> rdb: hrpmh, indeed it is
[17:47] <jcastro> will that not work?
[17:48] <rdb> No, because I want to use it from a PPA.
[17:49] <rdb> Is there any way I can help to get this fixed in the lucid repo and karmic-backports?
[17:49] <rdb> Because I know that if I package it and file a bug report or blueprint about including it, nothing happens
[17:50] <jcastro> unfortunately it's all mostly who has the time to help.
[17:50] <jcastro> rdb: you might want to try asking in #ubuntu-motu and see if anyone has time
[17:51] <rdb> well, usually I have the time to package stuff, but nobody has the time to flip a switch and include it
[17:52] <rdb> but thanks for your help
[17:52] <rdb> I'll package it for my PPA
[18:27] <pantzir> not accessible?  http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/508192
[18:27] <pantzir> it wasn't yersterday?
[18:37] <hyperair> how does one add an upstream bug watch?
[18:37] <hyperair> using the email interface, i mean
[19:20] <sinzui> hyperair: I do not think the email interface supports bug watches: https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
[19:21] <blueyed> Today I've thought about using BOINC to distribute package builds: any user could participate in helping with builds. However, trust must be ensured and that's not possible probably, is it? (idea: launchpad provides packets with builds to make and clients can fetch those and have to return them in a particular timeframe).
[19:22] <blueyed> Other BOINC projects manage to trust their users, so it may be possible with launchpad, too: e.g. an environment where the build gets done is created, which gets verified via hashes?!
[19:24] <hyperair> sinzui: i was hoping that it was an undocumented feature =(
[19:25] <sinzui> I believe there is a bug requesting the feature, but I cannot find it. (bug search on edge is very painful this week)
[19:39] <maxb> blueyed: quoting the BOINC wiki: "Because volunteer hosts may be error-prone or malicious, volunteer computing requires result validation. The general way to do this is by replication: run each job on 2 computers and make sure the results agree." ... this approach fails for software builds. They are not expected to be bytewise reproducible
[19:43] <blueyed> maxb: and it would not be possible to ensure builds are being made in a validated, secured environment? Like creating a chroot and validating the files before and after the build? But I agree that it would be difficult and needs more thought. But the idea is compelling: it would help both Launchpad and BOINC, if Ubuntu users would start using BOINC to help out Launchpad/Ubuntu.
[19:43] <maxb> No it would not be possible. There's no way to validate that the thing doing the validation hasn't itself been compromized
[19:44] <beuno> blueyed, have you verified that Canonical doesn't plan to add more builders?  it sounds like a big effort with a lot of risk (potential root access gain on million of computers)
[19:46] <blueyed> beuno: I've ranted about this yesterday.. they are apparently happy with the current state. The same applies to Launchpad: it's slow, takes time, but they are not throwing (enough) new hardware at it.
[19:46] <blueyed> maxb: ok, thanks for making this clear.. it's a pity though.
[19:46] <beuno> blueyed, I've told you, launchpad's speed is not a hardware issue
[19:47] <beuno> the builders may be, and I'm sure that if there's a problem, it will be fixed
[19:47] <beuno> launchpad's general performance is a very hard one
[19:47] <mwhudson> didn't someone say yesterday, it's not only a matter of hardware
[19:47] <beuno> mwhudson, I did  :)
[19:54] <blueyed> beuno: but you cannot say that with adding 10 more servers for page processing and 5 more memcached servers this would still be bad: it's software for sure, but when you add proper caching mechanisms everywhere, this should fly despite the complexity.
[19:55] <blueyed> imaging just a 5gb memcache cluster: that could easily bump performance a lot (given software changes, yes, of course).
[19:57] <beuno> blueyed, we don't use memcached
[19:57] <blueyed> beuno: other mem cachers?
[19:57] <beuno> no
[19:57] <blueyed> beuno: well, that's the root problem then :D
[19:58] <mwhudson> blueyed: which you will notice ISN'T HARDWARE!
[19:58] <beuno> blueyed, yes. Welcome to "fixing the software"
[19:58] <blueyed> beuno: why do 200+ queries for some page, if you could query a single memcache key?
[19:58] <blueyed> mwhudson: well, still.. it's RAM!
[19:59]  * mwhudson sighs, gives up on this conversation
[20:00] <blueyed> mwhudson: I'm right, not? it's both, but after all, it's just RAM, used in an intelligent way.
[20:00] <blueyed> mwhudson: and if you would increase the number of backend servers by twice as much, it would be faster too.. but now you're saying maybe: we have no proxy/load balancer.. well..
[20:00] <beuno> blueyed, no
[20:01] <blueyed> beuno: I really can't imagine given the number of engineers LP.net has after all, that there's no memcache in place..?!
[20:01] <blueyed> beuno: what no? no load balancer/proxy?
[20:02] <blueyed> How many machines are running LP.net (just the frontend - without any backend jobs like build services)?
[20:02] <geser> blueyed: and what about the increased overhead to invalidate the caches when someone changes data in LP?
[20:03] <cody-somerville> blueyed, FYI, Canonical does have intentions to add more dedicated buildds to the PPA buildd pool. It just takes time for resources like that to materialize.
[20:04] <cody-somerville> blueyed, That is to say, its recognized that the current set of buildds are under a high degree of load.
[20:04] <blueyed> geser: that's minimal.
[20:04] <blueyed> cody-somerville: great.
[20:06] <cody-somerville> blueyed, Also, if you feel you have expertise in the area of performance that would be of benefit to the launchpad team then I'd encourage you to send in your resume to our HR department. :)
[20:06] <cody-somerville> blueyed, Or just take the code and start hacking! :)
[20:06] <blueyed> geser: just imagine the home page.. this needs to get invalided only if the numbers displayed there get changed, e.g. when a new bug or answer is entered. and this could save 132 DB queries (i.e. one instead of 132) - you can use the DB to cache things, too (instead of memcache, it's just a tad slower)
[20:07] <blueyed> cody-somerville: yes, good idea - I've started once with that, but have given up on the setup procedure.. thanks for reminding me.
[20:08] <blueyed> I could not have imagined, that it's in such a bad shape.. ;)
[20:11] <FuturePilot> I'm a little confused about the deletion of source files. I'm not sure what I need to backup, if anything.
[20:11] <maxb> FuturePilot: what do you mean?
[20:11] <maxb> more context please
[20:12] <FuturePilot> it says they will be deleting source files that are in PPAs or that are not published
[20:13] <FuturePilot> does that mean *all* the source files in a PPA?
[20:13] <jontai> cody-somerville: any plans to allow third parties to "donate" buildds, seti@home-style? :)
[20:14] <ripps> jontai: the problem with that would be security, how can we be sure someone isn't poising a build with viral code
[20:14] <maxb> FuturePilot: "it says" ?
[20:14] <FuturePilot> this says http://blog.launchpad.net/general/action-back-up-old-sources-from-ppas
[20:15] <jontai> ripps: yea, I figured that's the reason it's not currently done that way
[20:15] <ripps> jontai: a better option would be to donate an old server for them to setup the way they want
[20:16] <maxb> FuturePilot: That bulleted list is a list of logical AND terms, not ORs
[20:16] <jontai> ripps: does LP/Canonical take hardware donations for buildds?
[20:17] <maxb> Except old servers are inefficient in power and rackspace
[20:19] <FuturePilot> maxb: well that was a error on my part, but I'm still confused. Do I need to download every single source file from my PPA? It says I may not need to download everything.
[20:20] <maxb> If you care about keeping every single source file, then yes
[20:20] <maxb> The question is: do you care about keeping a copy of every single version of every package you've ever uploaded
[20:21] <FuturePilot> just the current ones
[20:24] <FuturePilot> oh, now I see. That answers my question.
[20:28] <aboSamoor> I want to ask for advice, I want to translate reddit to my native language. Is launchpad the platform to use in such scenario ?
[20:31] <aboSamoor> abentley, ^
[20:32] <abentley> aboSamoor: Sorry, I'm in a call right now.
[20:32] <aboSamoor> abentley, tyt
[20:57] <abentley> aboSamoor: By "translate reddit", you mean the web publication or the underlying application?
[21:54] <rlameiro> Hi all
[21:55] <rlameiro> sorry, can anyone tell me how to make a new branch?
[21:55] <rlameiro> I am using olive, but i can use the cli thas is not a problem
[22:35] <aboSamoor> abentley, the interface. they have a separate git tree to internationalization of the interface
[22:47] <marianom> hey guys. I recently created a project in LP licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. However I see that Launchpad considers it a propietary license. Is that right?
[22:57] <thumper> marianom: that'd be a question for sinzui
[22:57] <marianom> thanks thumper!
[22:57] <thumper> marianom: although I'd be surprised if it was considered proprietary
[22:58] <RAOF> Aspects of the GFDL are not DFSG-free (particularly invariant sections)
[22:58] <marianom> me too, thumper. not doubt about it. but I'm not a lawyer and maybe there's something with it.
[23:06] <Noldorin> hello
[23:07] <Noldorin> is the launchpad bzr server down at the moment?
[23:07] <Noldorin> i seem unable to commit to existing repos
[23:08] <marianom> oh http://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_001 thanks RAOF...
[23:08] <marianom> too complicated for me, anyway :)
[23:08] <thumper> Noldorin: not that I know of
[23:08] <thumper> Noldorin: which branch?
[23:08] <Noldorin> thumper, lp:~ircdotnet/0.1
[23:09] <thumper> Noldorin: that isn't a valid branch
[23:09] <Noldorin> thumper, ignore the ~ :)
[23:09]  * thumper looks
[23:10] <thumper> Noldorin: looks ok to me, what errors are you getting?
[23:10] <Noldorin> bzr: ERROR: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', "Cannot lock LockDir(lp-6
[23:10] <Noldorin> 4843152:///~ircdotnet-dev/ircdotnet/0.1/.bzr/branchlock): File exists: u'/srv/ba
[23:10] <Noldorin> zaar.launchpad.net/push-branches/00/04/ad/b6/.bzr/branch/lock': [Errno 17] File
[23:10] <Noldorin> exists: '/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/push-branches/00/04/ad/b6/.bzr/branch/lock'")
[23:10] <Noldorin> that's via the command-line
[23:10] <Noldorin> i got another one via tortoise-bzr, which i don't have on record currently
[23:10] <thumper> Noldorin: what that means is someone else has a lock on the branch
[23:11] <Noldorin> thumper, i just tried break-lock. hrmm
[23:11] <thumper> man that is an aweful error
[23:11] <Noldorin> hehe yep
[23:11] <Noldorin> quite horrible
[23:12] <Noldorin> aweful and awful. :P
[23:12] <Noldorin> yeah...
[23:12] <Noldorin> breaking the lock doesn't help
[23:13]  * thumper pokes
[23:14] <thumper> Noldorin: try now
[23:14] <Noldorin> thumper, sorry. same error still
[23:15] <Noldorin> just to note: no problem with local commitsa
[23:15] <thumper> Noldorin: are you sure that no one else is messing with this branch?
[23:15] <Noldorin> thumper, i'm the only one that has access to it currenly.
[23:15] <Noldorin> so i'd hope not
[23:16] <Noldorin> thumper, not sure, but things might have gotten screwed up when i transferred branch ownership from me (noldorin) to ircdot-nev
[23:16] <Noldorin> erm, ircdotnet-dev *
[23:16] <thumper> Noldorin: shouldn't have
[23:16]  * thumper is looking
[23:16] <Noldorin> no indeed
[23:17] <Noldorin> using bzr 2.0.3 btw as the client
[23:18] <thumper> ah, that was going to be my next question
[23:18] <thumper> abentley: ping
[23:19] <abentley> thumper: pong
[23:19] <Noldorin>  /srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/push-branches/00/04/ad/b6/.bzr/branch/lock
[23:19] <thumper> abentley: do you know about what causes the lock error above for Noldorin?
[23:19] <Noldorin> that's a truly nasty path...
[23:20] <thumper> Noldorin: yes, we should be translating that on the way out
[23:20] <thumper> Noldorin: but I don't think there are the hooks in bzr lib yet
[23:20] <Noldorin> ah right
[23:20] <Noldorin> fair enough
[23:20] <Noldorin> as long as it's "expected"
[23:21] <thumper> unfortunately yes, it is expected, but aweful
[23:22] <abentley> thumper: No, but I can verify that there's a lock directory there.
[23:22] <thumper> abentley: yeah, me too
[23:22] <thumper> abentley: all my local branches also have that lock dir, so I don't know what should and shouldn't be there
[23:22] <Noldorin> heh
[23:22] <Noldorin> erm
[23:22] <Noldorin> more bad news
[23:23] <Noldorin> i just tried break-lock, and got the following:
[23:23] <Noldorin> and i tried it again, and it succeeded.
[23:23]  * Noldorin is very confused.
[23:24] <abentley> Noldorin: Both the branch and the repository may have been locked.
[23:24] <Noldorin> thumper, perhaps there is some way to reset the repo and just repush from the local branch?
[23:24] <Noldorin> abentley, i see...
[23:25] <thumper> Noldorin: yes, we can blow it away
[23:25] <Noldorin> wouldn't know how to fix that, though
[23:25] <thumper> and have you repush
[23:25] <thumper> Noldorin: break-lock should break both locks
[23:25] <Noldorin> thumper, i'm curious to figure out what the actual cause of this is (as i'm sure you are)...
[23:25] <Noldorin> but just making it work would be nice for now, i guess
[23:25] <Noldorin> ok
[23:26] <abentley> Noldorin: You're not putting having Launchpad autocommit translations, are you?
[23:26] <Noldorin> abentley, don't believe so, no.
[23:27] <Noldorin> thumper, same error after a plain break-lock
[23:27] <Noldorin> oh, wait:
[23:27] <Noldorin> thumper, http://pastebin.com/m654abab7
[23:28] <thumper> Noldorin: perhaps abentley was clearing it out for you
[23:28] <abentley> thumper: No, I didn't delete anything.
[23:28] <thumper> hmm...
[23:28] <thumper> I'm getting a permission denied
[23:29] <thumper> weird
[23:30] <sinzui> marianom: I approved your project gfdl is fine
[23:30] <thumper> WTF?
[23:31] <Noldorin> ?
[23:31] <abentley> thumper: what's giving permission denied?
[23:31] <thumper> abentley: using hitchhiker and doing "lsl .bzr"
[23:32] <Noldorin> hrmm
[23:32] <abentley> thumper: wfm
[23:32] <thumper> ???
[23:32] <Noldorin> if i had ftp access, i would be tempted just to log in and delete all the files in the repo now. :P
[23:32] <abentley> Noldorin: You have sftp access.
[23:32] <thumper> Noldorin: you can using hitchhiker
[23:32] <Noldorin> oh, cool
[23:33] <Noldorin> abentley, what's the url?
[23:33] <thumper> Noldorin: for sftp or hitchhiker?
[23:33] <abentley> sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ircdotnet-dev/ircdotnet/0.1/
[23:33] <Noldorin> thumper, sftp would be easier for me i guess
[23:33] <Noldorin> cheers
[23:33] <thumper> abentley: user@ ?
[23:34] <abentley> thumper: I suppose.
[23:35] <marianom> sinzui: thanks a lot! and I learnt something new about licenses today (I learnt that I don't understand them) :)
[23:35] <abentley> Noldorin: You may need to specify your username at the front of the URL, e.g. sftp://me@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ircdotnet-dev/ircdotnet/0.1/
[23:37] <Noldorin> thumper, abentley: deleting the .bzr dir via sftp then repushing did the trick :)
[23:37] <Noldorin> many thanks.
[23:38] <Noldorin> (goodness knows what the matter was still...)
[23:38] <thumper> Noldorin: ok cool, although I'm somewhat stumped as to how this got into a fubared situation
[23:38] <Noldorin> mm, no idea really. the only special thing i did with the repo recently was change ownership, i believe.
[23:42] <Noldorin> thumper, abentley: i'm off to bed now. will be idling around here however, so if you figure out what might have been the cause, please do ping me.
[23:44] <thumper> Noldorin: changing the ownership has no impact...
[23:44] <thumper> Noldorin: although you had a checkout right?
[23:44] <Noldorin> thumper, i believe so, yeah
[23:44] <Noldorin> ho hum
[23:44] <thumper> Noldorin: did you rebind?
[23:44]  * Noldorin crosses his fingers that the repo doesn't get clobbered again like this
[23:45] <Noldorin> thumper, erm, you could be onto something there
[23:45] <Noldorin> i'm not sure i did
[23:45] <thumper> hmm..
[23:46] <Noldorin> thumper, if that's the case then the solution is only to make the error message more friendly really, i guess :)
[23:46]  * Noldorin heads off now
[23:46] <Noldorin> thanks for the help...
[23:46] <Noldorin> night