[00:34] <micahg> bdmurray: would bug 443961 be ok to do?
[00:34] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 443961 in apport "Given that ubuntu-bug is now needed for all bug reports, non-genuine packages should be allowed." [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443961
[00:37] <bdmurray> micahg: just to be clear - allow apport to file bugs about not ubuntu packages?
[00:38] <micahg> bdmurray: yes, especially for ppa stuff
[00:39] <bdmurray> I don't think its the best idea and wouldn't write that code.
[00:39] <micahg> bdmurray: would it be possible for select packages?
[00:39]  * micahg is specifically concerned about firefox
[00:39] <bdmurray> micahg: maybe, but I don't it would scale well at all
[00:41] <micahg> with the new firefox-stable ppa, it's going to be hard to collect bug data if ubuntu-bug won't work
[01:02] <hggdh> what about a slight;y different approach: create a new project, and accept bugs for the project (not for Ubuntu). Of course, we would need a bit of, ah, adjustments here and there.
[01:03] <micahg> hggdh: how would apport handle that?
[01:05]  * micahg wouldn't mind an ubuntu-ppa bug project/distro
[01:11] <hggdh> micahg: I am not sure yet. We would have to adjust apaport to look for the source repository, or something along this line
[01:11] <micahg> bdmurray: what do you think ^^
[01:11] <hggdh> but this would guarantee that it would not open an Ubuntu bug -- and make Brian (and myself, in fact) happier
[01:13] <hggdh> micahg: what I was thinking of was anyone could open a project associated (somehow) with their own PPAs
[01:13] <micahg> hggdh: I'm referring more so to apport crashes :)
[01:14] <hggdh> oh, OK
[01:14] <micahg> and using ubuntu-bug to submit reports so it's seamless to users
[01:14] <hggdh> yes, this would be the idea -- as long as there is a live project to get it
[01:17] <dragon> While installing Karmic desktop amd64 on a brand new HP desktop, I selected "Install now" instead of "Try without installing option" from a LiveCD at boot time, but I was still taken to the LiveCD session. Tried this 4 times to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong. I've installed Ubuntu on at least 30-40 machines and never encountered this before.
[01:17] <dragon> Is this a known issue?
[01:21] <chrisccoulson> hey hggdh
[01:21] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[01:24] <hggdh> hey chrisccoulson life is good :-) and you are up late, it seems...
[01:25] <chrisccoulson> hggdh - i'm always up late ;)
[01:25] <hggdh> heh. Another insomniac, I guess :-)
[01:26] <chrisccoulson> yeah, sort of. i can sleep ok once i've gone to bed normally though, but i struggle to leave my computer alone in the evening
[01:26] <chrisccoulson> so i end up staying awake until 4am ;)
[01:27] <hggdh> heh. Pretty much what happens with me -- but only when I am traveling. When I at home, comes 22:00 I am toast
[01:28] <hggdh> dragon: I have not heard of it. Might be a good idea to search LP and open a bug if you find no similar bugs
[01:28] <chrisccoulson> hggdh - i should probably start doing that. i might be less tired at work then :)
[01:29] <hggdh> chrisccoulson: I needed a *lot* of training to get there... and I actually wish I would be able to sleep during the night (as opposed to during the morning)
[01:30] <dragon> hggdh: I haven't found anything similar in LP. Once I verify that the CD isn't defective, I'll try to reproduce the bug on another machine. Depending on how that turns out, I'll file a bug.
[01:30] <hggdh> dragon: good idea. Thank you for helping.
[01:31] <dragon> hggdh: no problem, and thank you!
[07:10] <kermiac> can someone pls mark bug 512454 triaged/low
[07:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512454 in hylafax "hylax-server is configured before hylafax-client is installed & configured." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512454
[07:13] <persia> kermiac: I don't think that's a bug in hylafax.
[07:13] <kermiac> persia:  why is that? just asking as i don't know the prog well
[07:13] <persia> Because hylafax-server clearly depends on hylafax-client, and hylafax-client doesn't appear to even recommend hylafax-server
[07:14] <persia> Apt should notice this, and configure hylafax-client before hylafax-server.
[07:14] <kermiac> i agree with what you  said. i found that during testing buti don't get exactly what you mean
[07:14] <persia> Otherwise dpkg gets unhappy.
[07:14] <kermiac> should it be filed against APT?
[07:15] <persia> I think so.
[07:15] <persia> To test my theory, try `aptitude install hylafax-server` in the same environment.
[07:15] <persia> aptitude uses a slightly different implementation, so sometimes one can use it to determine if it's a bug in apt.
[07:15] <kermiac> ok, i'll do that. thanks for your input persia :)
[07:15] <persia> (although most of the packages are tuned to work better with apt vs. aptitude)
[07:16] <kermiac> true
[07:16] <persia> Next: why "Low" vs. "Medium"?
[07:17] <kermiac> low because there's a relatively easy work-around
[07:17] <kermiac> but i was undecided between low & medium - so either way
[07:18] <persia> I'm happy with "Low", I just like to hear defences when it's borderline :)
[07:18] <kermiac> np :)
[07:18] <kermiac> i agree it's definately borderline
[07:18] <persia> My argument would probably be either "moderate impact on non-core app" (if hylafax), or "minor impact on core app" (if apt).
[07:19] <persia> It also falls into the "unusual configuration" bucket.
[07:19] <persia> I tend to not like the "there's an easy workaround" rule, just because I can construct cases where it seems silly to apply it
[07:19] <persia> (like unbootable systems, massive data corruption, etc.)
[07:20] <kermiac> fair enough, I was just following the guidelines :)
[07:21] <persia> Anyway, set to "Low", but not to "Triaged" because I think there's more work to do to make sure it's really something to fix in hylafax vs. apt (or whatever tool was used), that the test case needs to be more specific about commands to run, and that someone ought test against lucid (or a lucid chroot) to see if it affects the development release.
[07:21] <persia> kermiac: The guidelines are good: I just think that "there's a workaround" should be the last-choice resort selection for low/medium borderline bugs.  Most of them are decideable without it.
[07:22] <kermiac> np I'm just resetting my karmic vm & will test there
[07:23] <kermiac> I also have a lucid vm, so i'll try it there too
[07:23] <persia> Good luck.
[07:24] <kermiac> thanks :)
[07:27] <kermiac> persia: you were right, it's an apt bug. `aptitude install hylafax-server` works withhout error :)
[07:29] <persia> kermiac: Now check apt-get install vs. using the python-apt interface to see if it's python-apt or apt cmdline :)
[07:29] <ddecator> hey everyone, i'm trying to figure out a bug i'm experiencing with my own machine...this seems to happen mostly in 64-bit. i can play flash videos with no issue, but when i try to play a flash game i get this (http://www.youtube.com/watch_private?v=m2C_6mGtDxE&sharing_token=y8PPyTQ4owxVaWCzUHLX5g). npviewer.bin takes up 99% of my cpu, but idk if that alone would cause the problem. any thoughts?
[07:31] <persia> ddecator: You might try replicating with a liveCD to make sure it's not something about your local config.
[07:31] <kermiac> persia: what is "python-apt"?
[07:31] <persia> You might also try in a 32-bit VM to see if it's an arch issue.
[07:31] <persia> kermiac: gnome-apt and friends.  Many of the GUIs use python-apt.
[07:32] <persia> So if one installs from the "Software Center", one runs a slightly different codepath than if one installs with apt-get install.
[07:32] <persia> But if you can replicate with apt-get install, that becomes easiest to track down (fewer moving pieces)
[07:33] <ddecator> thanks persia , i'll see if i'm able to replicate it in a 64-bit live cd and a 32-bit VM
[07:33] <kermiac> i confirmed it using both synaptic & apt-get from terminal, is that what you mean?
[07:33] <kermiac> sorry, i really got lost when you mentioned python-apt :)
[07:33] <persia> synaptic doesn't use python-apt either :)
[07:34] <persia> So, sometimes I see install bugs that are really bugs with the apt python bindings (which are not yet full-featured)
[07:34] <persia> And sometimes there are install bugs that are easy to replicate with apt-get install
[07:35] <persia> Since we decided the problem was with apt, I just wanted to make sure you checked the command-line to confirm it wasn't python-apt.
[07:35] <persia> (some testers will always select the Software Centre when following instructions like "Install foo")
[07:35] <kermiac> ok, so I'll update the test case & change the package to "apt" - anything else?
[07:35] <persia> So update the bug to indicate the test case is running `apt-get install hylafax-server` rather than just "Install hylafax-server", and reset the pacakge, etc.
[07:36] <persia> Test against lucid?
[07:36] <kermiac> no, I usually use apt-get, or synaptic.
[07:36] <kermiac> ok, I'll try against lucid too :)
[07:37] <persia> If you ever run into an install bug you can't replicate with apt-get, try using the Software Centre.  Sometimes that can expose something interesting.
[07:37] <persia> (otherwise we lose the bug, and never fix it).
[07:38] <persia> But in this case, it's straight-forward :)
[07:38] <kermiac> thanks for the tip :) I'm always keen to learn more
[07:38] <persia> Also, the workaround is even easier, because aptitude works, and is installed by default (I think), so users can just run `aptitude install hylafax-server` to do what they want.
[07:39] <kermiac> yup, very true. so it would definately be low (after I update)
[07:40] <kermiac> just trying in lucid vm now
[07:41] <kermiac> all installed fine using apt-get in lucid
[07:42] <persia> OK.  Update the bug to indicate it's a karmic-only issue.
[07:42] <persia> Then check the SRU guidelines to see if it is worth fixing.
[07:42] <persia> !SRU
[07:42] <ubot4> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[07:42] <kermiac> will do :)
[07:42] <persia> If it's not worth fixing in Karmic, report your findings that it's fixed in lucid, and mark the bug Fix Released.
[07:42] <persia> extra points for going through the apt changelog and reporting which version fixed the issue.
[07:44] <kermiac> ty for your help persia :)
[08:03] <kermiac> persia: just going through the SRU wiki & I don't think it meets the criteria, although tbh I don't know how many people use the hylafax package so I don't know if it would how many people it is likely to effect
[08:03] <kermiac> but at the same time it seems to meet this point
[08:03] <kermiac> #
[08:03] <kermiac> #
[08:03] <kermiac> Bugs which represent severe regressions from the previous release of Ubuntu. This includes packages which are totally unusable, like being uninstallable or crashing on startup.
[08:03] <persia> How?
[08:04] <kermiac> but "apt" is not uninstallable, hylafax is
[08:04] <persia> Remember, the bug isn't in hylafax, it's in apt.
[08:04] <persia> Right.
[08:04] <kermiac> yes, that's true
[08:04] <persia> If hylafax were broken in a way that made it uninstallable, I'd agree with you.
[08:04] <kermiac> so I'm guessing an SRU wouldn't be appropriate?
[08:04] <kermiac> do you agree?
[08:04] <persia> Since apt is broken in a way that means one has to install hylafax with aptitude, I'm not certain that it's worth the risk of updating apt.
[08:04] <kermiac> true, & it is fixed in Lucid
[08:05] <persia> I specifically try to avoid taking a stand on whether something should be an SRU :)
[08:05]  * kermiac laughs
[08:05] <persia> I'm not convinced it's worth it, but I won't tell you it's not if you think it is and have a good argument.
[08:05] <persia> That's a decision for the SRU teams.
[08:05] <kermiac> well, I believe it isn't worth an SRU on something as important as apt - the potential for regression seems too high (to me at least)
[08:06] <persia> In that case, close the bug.  If someone disagrees, they can reopen against karmic for SRU processing.
[08:06] <persia> Just be *really* clear in your comment closing it about why you're closing it, and why you don't think it needs an update.
[08:06] <persia> So that affected users don't get all annoyed because they aren't getting support.
[08:07] <persia> I generally try to hunt down which version closed something, and clearly describe the workaround so that affected users don't have to be affected.
[08:27] <kermiac> persia: I've been looking through the apt changelogs. The closest thing I can see is this
[08:28] <kermiac> Change history branch so that it does not break the
[08:28] <kermiac>     apt ABI for the pkgPackageManager interface
[08:28] <kermiac> persia: do you think that might have been the change that fixed it? I'm not sure
[08:28] <kermiac> persia: a lot of references in the change logs were a bit over my head :)
[08:29] <persia> I doubt it.
[08:30] <persia> TO me that looks like some VCS change.
[08:30] <kermiac> persia: ty, I'll just forget about that part then :)
[08:30] <persia> Sounds good.  It's always good to check, in case it jumps out.  If you can't figure it out, report that you can't figure it out, but that you tested with a specific version, and know it to be fixed prior to that version.
[08:31] <kermiac> can you pls have a quick look & see if the changes I made seem ok?
[08:31] <kermiac> bug 512454
[08:31] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512454 in apt "hylax-server is configured before hylafax-client is installed & configured." [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512454
[08:35] <persia> kermiac: My only complaints are that you failed to report with which version of apt you tested it as fixed, and that you didn't indicate that you could replicate in karmic but not with the selected version of apt using the same setup.
[08:36] <persia> In practice, neither of these matter much, but in those rare cases where some user goes mad because they aren't ready to upgrade and believe that nobody cares about them, and that user has a big soapbox, it's nice to be careful.
[08:36] <kermiac> maybe i wasn't very clear but I believe I noted which version of apt  had the error in karmic & which version didn't in lucid under "Notes"
[08:36]  * persia has seen a few of these over the years, and so tries to imagine that all subscribed users are rabid anti-Ubuntu tech press writers.
[08:37] <persia> kermiac: Indeed you did.  I usually see that in a comment.  I retract my complaints.
[08:37] <persia> Very nice job.
[08:37] <kermiac> excellent - np persia, thanks for all your help this afternoon
[08:38] <kermiac> do you have any suggestion to change how I layout what version i tested instead of just C&P the output of apt-cache policy?
[08:39] <persia> No.  That's a very nice way to do it.
[08:40] <kermiac> ok, excellent :)
[08:40] <persia> In fact, it's better than what I usually do, which is to say in the comment something like "I was unable to determine which version of the package fixed it, but I could confirm the behaviour in 1.2 and confirm that the behaviour was not exhibited in 1.4"
[08:41] <kermiac> ok, that's good then. Well, I'm off to go get ready to take the kids to the Australia Day fireworks :)
[08:41] <persia> But I tend to be both lazy and to prefer writing in paragraphs to tables of data, which probably has a lot to do with why I do it that way :)
[08:41]  * kermiac laughs
[08:41] <persia> Nice evening for it.
[08:42] <kermiac> yup, it is - except it's still a bit hot... oh well - it's a nice clear evening with no clouds in sight so it should be a good show for the kids
[08:42] <kermiac> c-ya later :)
[08:44] <BUGabundo_remote> morning
[11:13] <kermiac> sry om26er - you noticed the dupe just as i was posting. my bad :)
[11:41] <om26er> mark this triaged/low https://bugs.launchpad.net/empathy/+bug/512746
[11:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512746 in empathy "dragging and dropping a chat tab hides the original window" [Undecided,New]
[11:49] <vish> om26er: which version did you find bug? it is better if you file bugs with Ubuntu bug , the version# will also be uploaded
[11:49] <vish> its also in Empathy 2.29.6
[11:50] <vish> *with $ubuntu-bug
[11:50] <om26er> in the last comment of upstream bug I wrote that its in empathy 2.29.6
[11:51] <yofel> pedro_: thanks :D
[11:51]  * vish too , thanks pedro_ :)
[11:51] <pedro_> yofel vish you guys are rockstars!
[11:52] <pedro_> om26er, did you send your application to bugcontrol?
[11:52] <om26er> pedro_, yes I did
[11:52] <om26er> actually its been two weeks
[11:54] <om26er> *a month+
[11:55] <pedro_> om26er, found it , will comment and ping the other folks on the list
[11:55] <om26er> pedro_, thanx
[12:17] <kamusin> :)
[12:19] <pedro_> morning kamusin
[12:22] <kamusin> hey pedro_
[14:32] <hggdh> pedro_: you and Brian voted for om26er, so he has the necessary votes
[14:32] <hggdh> pedro_: Brain == bcurtiswx
[15:05] <LimCore> what is the name of the program under alt+f2 like krun
[15:14] <yofel> LimCore: you mean what application is opened when you run alt+f2?
[15:24] <Nelis> if there is a bug in the version of a program that is in the latest ubuntu release but fixed in a newer version of that program, should the status of the bug report be set to invalid?
[15:24] <ikonia> I thought that was just part of the actual desktop package
[15:24] <ikonia> Nelis: Should be fix-released
[15:24] <Nelis> quick answer, tnx :)
[15:25] <yofel> fix-released only if you have the respecting changelog entry that shows this was fixed
[15:25] <ikonia> does the guy who released the fix normally set that
[15:26] <yofel> ikonia: usually you add a (LP: 123456) to the changelog so the bug is automatically set to  fix released
[15:26] <ikonia> ah yes, but the guy who's fixing it normally does that from my experience
[15:27] <yofel> ikonia: yes, but sometimes you forget it, and if a but get's fixed in debian and the package is synced then the bug isn't auto-closed too
[15:27] <hggdh> well, more strictly: if the programme has been fixed on *Lucid*, then it is fix released; if it has been fixed upstream, it is still either triaged or fix committed (depending on the team)
[15:28] <hggdh> generically, a fix upstream (not yet downloaded and added to an Ubuntu package) is not enough for fix released/committed
[15:29] <Nelis> i believe that is the case here
[15:31] <hggdh> in the case of upstream-fixed only: if the tracker is not automatically updated, please add a comment stating it has been fixed (if you have the commit string, even better, but not critical), and mark the upstream bug accordingly
[15:33] <mrand> Man, ubiquity project is in need of serious help.  It's like a black hole for tickets:  1112 open bugs, 629 of which are new.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bugs
[15:33] <Nelis> hggdh: I'm sorry, I'm kinda new to this, I don't really know what half you just said means.
[15:34] <hggdh> Nelis: no problem :-) sometimes I tend to be overly descriptive
[15:35] <yofel> mrand: good target for a hugday ;)
[15:35] <hggdh> Nelis: please ask whenever you have a doubt. If it is about a specific bug, giving the bug number (type 'bug xxxxxx') will give us more context on the question
[15:36] <hggdh> Nelis: and -- thank you for helping
[15:36] <Nelis> bug 512811
[15:36] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512811 in evolution "copy / paste from scalc in plain text makes PNG attachment" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512811
[15:37] <hggdh> hum. The OP opened the bug here and gave two ustream bugs as reference. So... looking at them (but I have no idea of what is 'scalc')
[15:38] <mrand> yofel: indeed!
[15:38] <Nelis> Yes, I was thinking since it is fixed in a newer version, it is not needed to open up a new bug report on it?
[15:39] <yofel> kamusin: do you know if someone's organizing a hugday this week?
[15:40] <mrand> yofel: the problem appears to be that ubiquity encompasses a wide variety of things, and many of the bugs are fairly technical.  But that doesn't mean bugsquad couldn't help with duplicate identification and escalation of major or critical looking items.
[15:41] <hggdh> Nelis: although not necessary, it gives us a reference, so not a bad idea all-in-all. But I think (still reading it) that mbarnes fixed it on trunk only. Back to reading the story
[15:43] <dholbach> Day 2 of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek starting in #ubuntu-classroom (on irc.freenode.net) in 17 minutes!
[15:44] <hggdh> Nelis: yes -- it is fixed on 2.29.6, which has not yet landed on Lucid. So... what we should do here:
[15:44] <kamusin> yofel, I saw Planning page and said that this thursday there one of ubuntu-one client
[15:44] <yofel> ah, ok
[15:44] <hggdh> (1) add an upstream bug tracker for Gnome bug 603715
[15:44] <kamusin> ;)
[15:44] <ubot4> Gnome bug 603715 in Mailer "Paste as plain text" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=603715
[15:45] <hggdh> (2) mark this bug Triaged/Medium
[15:45] <hggdh> (3) add a comment about *why* we are doing this, and that this bug will be fixed on the upcoming Evolution 2.29.6/2.30 on Lucid
[15:46] <hggdh> Nelis: are you willing to do it? We will help, and it is a really good example of work
[15:46] <Nelis> hggdh: yes, i'd love to do it, just trying to find out how :)
[15:47] <Nelis> hggdh: how would one add a bug tracker to this bug?
[15:47] <hggdh> Nelis: OK. You will need to copy the link to the Gnome bug I pointed above. Then, on the Ubuntu bug, click on "Also affects project"
[15:48] <Nelis> hggdh: done
[15:48] <hggdh> Nelis: the "I have the URL for the upstream bug" option should be preselected; if not, select it. Now paste the link for the bug on the input space to the right of the option
[15:49] <Nelis> hggdh: yes, I've done that. It's added :)
[15:49] <hggdh> Nelis: cool.
[15:49] <hggdh> Now you should be back to the Ubuntu bug, and you should see the task listed
[15:50] <Nelis> yes
[15:50] <hggdh> status and importance are probably "Unknonw" right now. This is normal, it takes a while for the bots to get there and update them
[15:51] <Nelis> normally at this point I should ask someone in this channel to update status and importance right?
[15:51] <hggdh> Now, change the Status to "Confirmed"; also please tell me how Important you think this is
[15:52] <hggdh> You should confirm the bug, and add a comment on *why* you changed the status
[15:52] <hggdh> then you would come here and ask someone to set it Triaged, with a proposed Importance
[15:52] <Nelis> ok
[15:53] <hggdh> You cannot set Status == Triaged -- this is a restricted operation, and only bug-control can do it. You also cannot set Importance
[15:53] <Nelis> Indeed I noticed :)
[15:54] <hggdh> but the impotant point here is: *always* add a comment explaining why you are changing the status. Also, it is nice to start with "Thank you for opening this bug and helping make Ubuntu better, etc, etc"
[15:54] <Nelis> ah yes
[15:55] <hggdh> Nelis: this is a good start for the gory details: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad, and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase
[15:55] <LimCore> yofel: yes
[15:56] <yofel> LimCore: in KDE it's krunner, in gnome it's gnome-panel (I think)
[15:56] <Nelis> hggdh: Yes, I read through most of that yesterday. It's quite some text :)
[15:56] <yofel> by default at leas
[15:56] <yofel> *least
[15:56] <hggdh> Nelis: indeed, and quite a, er, dry reading
[15:57] <LimCore> thx
[15:57] <hggdh> Nelis: so... are you adding the comment? If you are unsure on what to say, propose something on pastebin
[15:57] <hggdh> !pastebin
[15:57] <ubot4> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://ubuntu.pastebin.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
[15:58] <Nelis> hggdh: would it be a good idea if we talk a bit in private so we don't clutter up the channel? I'm sure I will have more questions later if you have the time.
[16:01] <hggdh> Nelis: we can, but most of your questions will be standard doubts on how to deal with bugs -- and this is exactly what the channel is for (and may help others, lurking in the background, but too shy to ask)
[16:01] <Nelis> hggdh: ok, very well
[16:02] <hggdh> Nelis: so I would rather keep it here. If you have something you feel should be private, then by all means go ahead and PM me
[16:02] <Nelis> hggdh: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d391fd048 something simple like this?
[16:03] <hggdh> Nelis: yes, perfect. Now, Evolution is dealt with my the desktop-bugs team (but I will take care of that after you have added the comment)
[16:04] <hggdh> s/my/by/
[16:04] <Nelis> hggdh: i have added the comment.
[16:07] <hggdh> Nelis: and I have upped it to Triaged (and added a comment). I also set it to LOW importance.
[16:07] <Nelis> hggdh: now on the importance part: I'm not sure if it should be low or medium. Personally I'd think it would be low.
[16:07] <Nelis> hggdh: ah, nice timing :)
[16:07] <hggdh> Nelis: heh. I agrre
[16:07] <hggdh> agree
[16:08] <Nelis> hggdh: thanks for the help, time to find myself another bug to triage. I'm sure I'll have more questions.
[16:08] <hggdh> whenever you confirm a bug (or, in critical issues) you should always try to figure out what is the Importance
[16:08] <hggdh> and we will be here ;-)
[16:10] <om26er> mark it triaged please https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/512761
[16:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512761 in empathy "“Subscription request” dialog is confusing" [Undecided,New]
[16:15] <mrand> om26er: and what importance?
[16:15] <om26er> low
[16:15] <mrand> om26er: done.  Thanks for helping!
[16:16] <mrand> On many UI issues I'd be tempted to mark it wishlist, but that one seems bad enough to justify at least low.
[16:17] <persia> UI issues should generally be "Low" unless they are feature requests.
[16:18] <persia> Part of the general usability initiative.
[16:18] <persia> See w.u.c/Bugs/Importance
[16:18] <hggdh> hi persia, good day
[16:18] <persia> hey.
[16:18] <mrand> indeed
[16:33] <om26er> mark it triaged https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/509718
[16:33] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 509718 in empathy "ICQ no notification for adding contact request" [Undecided,New]
[16:36] <om26er> *please
[16:40] <yofel> om26er: and again: importance?
[16:40] <vish> om26er: it isnt really necessary to open launchpad bugreports for upstream bugs .. ;)
[16:41] <yofel> that too
[16:41] <yofel> the kubuntu team would actually mark it as invalid
[16:41] <om26er> i am think medium
[16:41] <jpds> vish: It's useful, so people can track when a fix is in the Ubuntu package.
[16:42] <om26er> yofel, mark it medium
[16:42] <vish> jpds: yes , but , he reported the bug both places ;) ... so he'd probably be subscribed upstream as well :)
[16:43] <jpds> vish: So? We can still track the fix in Ubuntu.
[16:44] <vish> jpds: oh well , it was just something i noticed members other desktop team mention.. [not my opinion really]
[16:44] <vish> other members of*
[16:45] <jpds> I like to see bugs and go: "Oh, it's fixed upstream, but it hasn't landed in the Ubuntu packages yet".
[16:45] <om26er> vish, i reported this upstream and downstream due to a spoiled version of the duplicate of this bug.
[16:45] <Nelis> Bug 512773 is sort of a request to add a mouse driver to Ubuntu. How should I triage this?
[16:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512773 in linux-meta "Apple magic mouse not supported" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512773
[16:46] <yofel> om26er: done
[16:46] <om26er> yofel, thank you
[16:46] <vish> om26er: yeah , i noticed the dup too , but you did for another bug as well this morning.. anyways... ;)  [no personal preference of mine , but you might get that mentioned by the desktop team ] ;)
[16:48]  * om26er don't like bugzilla for finding bugs so if a bug is linked with LP it can be found easily 
[17:18]  * hggdh just noted yofel is now marking bugs triaged ;-)
[17:22] <yofel> hggdh: yep, thanks to pedro_ ;)
[17:24] <vish> hggdh: what sort of mail does the bugcontrol ML get?
[17:24]  * vish  noted a few crasher mails.. but couldnt figure out the pattern
[17:26] <yofel> hm, good question
[17:26] <yofel> was wondering that too
[17:26] <yofel> is it all apport crashes that are private?
[17:27] <hggdh> vish: it is a low volume ML. Mostly applications to bug-control, and Things To Discuss
[17:27] <vish> ah
[17:31] <hggdh> vish: we had a bit of action a few days ago, when the translation/bug-control integration caused all translation bug to be sent to the ML, but this has been bypassed
[17:32] <hggdh> yofel: all all crash bugs opened by apport are born private due to potential privacy issues
[17:32] <hggdh> when opened only the OP and apport can see them
[17:33] <vish> hggdh: yeah , i got the translation bug comments today , and was wondering if the volume was high..
[17:33] <yofel> hggdh: ah yes, and why do some of them land on the BC ML?
[17:33]  * vish setup a new folder for bug control expecting lot of mail
[17:33]  * yofel sorts bugsquad and bugcontrol into one folder
[17:33] <hggdh> vish -- I have a separate forlder for it. Even low volume, it tends to accumulate email during time
[17:34] <hggdh> yofel: why some of them what? translation bugs, or *other* bugs?
[17:39] <yofel> hggdh: hm, looking again, most seem to be about bugpatterns, what was that again?
[17:40] <hggdh> yofel: these are bugs that need a pattern built so that apport will consider them as already reported
[17:40] <yofel> ah, ok :)
[17:46]  * vish little sad , wont be able to bug hggdh to set statuses :(
[17:47]  * hggdh does not feel sad about this particular action ;-)
[17:47] <qense> vish, you could still let us know all the status changes you're doing
[17:47] <qense> You just don't have to ask someone else to do it for you now.
[17:47] <vish> ;]
[17:49] <hggdh> OK. A more technical question: anybody knows *where* in apport the back-office retrace is done?
[17:49] <qense> apport-retrace?
[17:49] <qense> It's a separate package.
[17:54] <hggdh> yes, but it is part of the apport source in bzr. I am writing a stacktrace sanitiser, and the only place I can see GDB being called is in report.py. I will hunt down calls to it now
[17:54] <qense> I don't know more about the retracer, I'm afraid.
[18:00] <yofel> hm, where should bug 512883 go? compiz?
[18:00] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512883 in ubuntu "[WISH] Add Window Organisation like in Windows7" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512883
[18:02] <qense> yofel: Brainstorm and maillists?
[18:05] <vish> yeah... direct the user to brainstorm , iirc , there is already an idea for that
[18:06] <yofel> really? I think that's a regular whishlist bug, or are we supposed to send just about any UI improvement to brainstorm?
[18:07] <qense> not any, only larger ones that could be subject to discussion
[18:08] <qense> (large, broader discussions)
[18:08] <hggdh> which would be the case here, BTW
[18:09] <yofel> ok, I'll send him to brainstorm then
[18:11] <Nelis> Bug 512773 is a request to add a mouse driver to Ubuntu. How should I triage this?
[18:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512773 in linux-meta "Apple magic mouse not supported" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512773
[18:21] <yofel> Nelis: that should be against linux, not linux-meta afaik, but I don't know more
[18:21] <yofel> ogasawara: you here?
[18:23] <hggdh> yes, it is a kernel drive, so 'linux' is the correct package
[18:24] <hggdh> but it would be better if this was submitted for consideration to the kernel ML
[18:27] <Nelis> hggdh: so what actions should I take here?
[18:27] <hggdh> Nelis: change package from Linux-meta to Linux -- and then I am not sure. ogasawara will certainly know more.
[18:28] <Nelis> hggdh: wouldn't the status be invalid since this is not really a bug, more like a feature request?
[18:30] <hggdh> It is still a valid request -- a specific hardware is not supported by the kernel (at least at the OP kernel version). This will probably end as a Wishlist, though
[18:31] <Nelis> ok
[18:31] <yofel> Nelis: maybe you'll find something useful here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelTeamBugPolicies
[18:31] <Nelis> yofel: tnx, i'll check that.
[20:05] <jcastro> qense: if you run into an app that wants app indicators or you think is a good candidate feel free to tag it with "application-indicators" as a tag
[20:06] <jcastro> qense: any help from anyone to bring in app developers to port their apps would be most welcome.
[20:07] <qense> jcastro: Thanks for telling, I'll try to use the tag and encourage people to use the AppIndicator.
[20:08] <jcastro> qense: My main goal for this cycle is tracking the stuff in main, we'll even be writing a bunch of the patches to send upstream, but universe is endless
[20:09] <qense> that's an understatement
[20:10] <qense> jono has Rick Rolled all his followers :P
[20:10] <jcastro> I just clicked it
[20:10] <qense> Why is it not real?!
[21:51] <anon^_^> Hi, anyone familiar with gnome-screensaver or powermanagement?
[21:52] <anon^_^> trying to identify the correct process to create a bug report
[21:52] <anon^_^> http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2503/whatisthis3.png
[21:53] <anon^_^> every so often this applet appears in task tray, notification area
[21:53] <anon^_^> if you move the mouse or press a key on keyboard it disappears
[22:05] <yofel> anon^_^: I think I've seen this, lemme search for something
[22:05] <anon^_^> thanks yofel
[22:06] <anon^_^> screensaver is turned off, but this applet seems to only appear after system is idle for a period of time
[22:07] <anon^_^> by idle I mean no input, no movement from mouse, no keys pressed on keyboard
[22:08] <anon^_^> move mouse after it appears, or press key on keyboard and it dissapears
[22:08] <yofel> anon^_^: does bug 421347 sound like your issue?
[22:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 421347 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i945gm] gnome-power-manager and blanking (removal of bodges)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/421347
[22:08] <anon^_^> checking
[22:11] <anon^_^> sounds like it could be related
[22:12] <yofel> anon^_^: looking again, you might have a different issue if you can't hover the icon and it disappers once you move the mouse
[22:12] <anon^_^> the icon/applet described is the same, power management for monitor is turned on, and description matches with similar behavior of idle timer
[22:13] <anon^_^> that would be different then
[22:14] <anon^_^> i had to use a camera to take a picture, if I used print screen it applet would disappear
[22:15] <yofel> hm, I don't know that as I've never seen that Icon and haven't used gnome in a while
[22:15] <yofel> does anyone else have an idea? ^^^^
[22:15] <anon^_^> going to try #ubuntu-devel, was pointed that direction
[22:17] <micahg> bdmurray: BTW, I didn't open a bug for the second QA issue which is the stats aren't updating (3 days old)
[22:17] <bdmurray> michag: one thing at a time ;_)
[22:18] <micahg> bdmurray: I know, just wanted you to be aware, do I need to file a separate bug?
[22:20] <anon^_^> btw, thanks for assitance yofel
[22:21] <yofel> anon^_^: you're welcomme
[22:21] <yofel> *welcome
[22:21] <bdmurray> micahg: yes, that'd be great
[22:31] <bcurtiswx> lol @ hggdh: thanks for calling me "Brain" ;-)
[22:34] <hggdh> heh. A lapse, just a lapse ;-)
[22:34] <yofel> ^^