[07:34] <al-maisan> Good morning!
[07:38] <pitti> good morning
[07:45] <baptistemm> heloi
[07:45] <baptistemm> hello
[07:53] <didrocks> good morning pitti
[07:53] <didrocks> hey al-maisan and baptistemm :)
[07:55] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, how are you?
[07:55] <pitti> hey al-maisan! want to become a desktop hacker now? :-)
[07:56] <didrocks> pitti: very fine, it's update day, again \o/
[07:56] <didrocks> pitti: you? :)
[07:57] <baptistemm> I read ubuntu won't provide version 2.30 for evolution, right? what is the reason for that?
[07:59] <al-maisan> pitti: why not :)
[08:28] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:32] <didrocks> salut seb128 :)
[08:33] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:36] <didrocks> seb128: you didn't go to bed too late yesterday? :)
[08:37] <seb128> I'm having a look to the gtk update
[08:37] <seb128> didrocks, no that's ok, 0:30 or something
[08:37] <pitti> hey seb128
[08:37] <seb128> didrocks, I just did the glib update which too a bit since there is new apis and a new gio query tool to run
[08:37] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:37] <didrocks> ok, I'm finishing the file-roller one. There is an issue with tomboy in configure failing, didn't find it yet.
[08:38] <didrocks> seb128: yes, I've read the changelog. The new gio query tool can be useful for any debugging bit?
[08:40] <seb128> didrocks, no, it's to make a cache, it's not an user tool
[08:40] <seb128> I need to ask to alex how it works, for now the cache is empty
[08:40] <didrocks> seb128: hum, ok
[08:45] <pitti> meh, firefox just dies and does nothing any more with my profile
[08:48] <didrocks> seb128: gnome-doc-utils hasn't been updated for a while, is it intended?
[08:48] <seb128> didrocks, no
[08:48] <didrocks> ok, doing it so
[08:48] <seb128> thanks
[08:50] <mvo> hrm, is LP a bit on the slow side these days?
[08:51] <seb128> mvo, I've not tried today yet
[08:51] <seb128> mvo, I had to switch to non-edge yesterday because edge was timeouting on buglists
[08:51] <seb128> mvo, which one do you use?
[08:51] <mvo> edge, slow and timeouts :/
[08:51] <mvo> I try the non-edge now
[08:52] <seb128> timeout issues on edge is a known issue
[08:52] <mvo> ok, thanks
[08:56]  * mvo celebrates commit r50 to the gnome-terminal packaging branch
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:57] <seb128> hey hey chrisccoulson
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
[08:57] <didrocks> hello chrisccoulson
[08:57] <seb128> good!
[08:57] <seb128> you?
[08:58] <seb128> hate g-s-d
[08:58] <seb128> the thing keep crashing every morning
[08:59] <seb128> and the "don't use the pc speaker" doesn't work after restarting it...
[09:00] <seb128> to give some context I suspend the laptop undocked
[09:00] <seb128> and tend to wake it up docked
[09:00] <seb128> and it crashes when trying to active the external screne
[09:00] <seb128> screen
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm good thanks
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> you're having problems with g-s-d?
[09:01] <seb128> yes
[09:01] <seb128> what I just described
[09:01] <seb128> it crashes on me every morning
[09:01] <seb128> for one thing wake the laptop docked with lid closed
[09:01] <seb128> and you get no screen
[09:01] <seb128> it should activate the monitor
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> ah, that's a pain. perhaps i could have a look at that
[09:01] <seb128> I've to open the lid
[09:02] <seb128> and use the magic xrandr key
[09:02] <seb128> then g-s-d crashes
[09:02] <chrisccoulson> i've got a laptop and docking station on the way now, so i should be able to reproduce all these issues that people have
[09:02] <seb128> then I start gnome-appearance-capplet which restart it
[09:02] <seb128> and from then I get this loud and annoying speaker
[09:02] <seb128> which forces me to restart my session
[09:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, you are a fast decider :-)
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> the crash after hitting the xrandr key after the display configuration changes seems similar to what slangasek has, which seems to be triggered by a xorg issue
[09:03] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I took me ages to pick a laptop when I bought mine
[09:03] <seb128> which one did you take?
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, did you already do a une chart today?
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> i got a latitude e5500 in the end. it looks a bit bulky, but then, i need something i can work on every day. and it has all intel hardware
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> i also got a docking station and 20" monitor too
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: I did, just not copied to my server; you need one?
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, I'm just curious to see the difference with yesterday's one
[09:04] <pitti> I did a clean reinstall with today's daily ISO this morning
[09:04] <seb128> I cleaned my cache yesterday
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i updated my packages in http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/desktop-startup-speed/ last night, and rebased them on the current ubuntu versions
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> feel free to test them at some point :)
[09:05] <seb128> pitti, ok, so it will be slower than yesterday's one you did right?
[09:05] <seb128> pitti, ie you had your wncksync caching in use and other changes
[09:06] <pitti> yes, it has the normal wncksync again
[09:06] <pitti> the other changes should all be in
[09:06] <seb128> pitti, how much does xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update takes?
[09:06] <pitti> seb128: uploaded (daniel-lucid-20100126-1.png)
[09:06] <seb128> danke
[09:07] <pitti> seb128: it literally disappeared, AFAICS
[09:07] <mvo> who is doing tracker these days? I just ran across bug #474324 and wonder if its ok to drop the /usr/lib/deskbar-applet/deskbar-applet dir from the package
[09:07] <seb128> pitti, ok, good, so that worked ;-)
[09:07]  * pitti hugs seb128
[09:07]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[09:07] <chrisccoulson> hey mvo - that's probably me (sort of)
[09:07] <seb128> mvo, you?
[09:07] <seb128> mvo, it's all yours
[09:08] <pitti> seb128: my wncksync merge was approved, but nobody did it yet
[09:08] <seb128> mvo, official reply otherwise is "nobody" or "chrisccoulson when he has time but we prefer him to focus on default desktop things"
[09:08] <seb128> ;-)
[09:08] <seb128> pitti, ok
[09:08]  * pitti tries to rescue his firefox profile
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> mvo - i have some people interested in helping out with tracker packaging here: https://launchpad.net/~tracker-team
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> i don't know whether any of them would be interested to look at that
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> they're mainly focused on 0.7.x at the moment
[09:10] <mvo> chrisccoulson: its seems like its a very simple thing, wrong path or something
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> mvo - i can look at that, it shouldn't take me long
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> feel free to assign it to me
[09:10] <mvo> seb128: does "nobody" mean that I should stop caring too?
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> mvo - yes
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> :P
[09:10] <seb128> mvo, no, it means you are welcome to step and take over it ;-)
[09:11] <seb128> mvo, it's just a "too much to do and not being a priority for us" issue
[09:12] <seb128> mvo, joke aside we are just too busy to look at it but that bug seems something easy to fix, I can have a look
[09:13] <mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, I give it 5min, I think I have a idea what is wrong
[09:14] <mvo> seb128: its ok, I know everybody is busy
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> mvo - don't worry about it too much. i'm just in #tracker speaking to a potential volunteer ;)
[09:14] <mvo> chrisccoulson: oh, nice
[09:14] <seb128> mvo, how come directories create conflicts?
[09:14] <mvo> its a dir in one package and a file in the other
[09:14] <seb128> oh
[09:14] <mvo> yeah
[09:14] <mvo> I think its just a bug in the .install file somwhere
[09:15] <seb128> or upstream which didn't expect libexecdir to be there
[09:15] <mvo> it should not be a double deskbar-applet dir, then it should work
[09:16] <seb128> didrocks, looking to the g-s-d update
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> ah, never mind, my potential volunteer prefers to stay focused on the 0.7 version at the moment
[09:17] <seb128> session restart brb
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> mvo - so, i can take a look at that when i get a spare 5 minutes
[09:17] <didrocks> taking yelp update
[09:18] <didrocks> seb128: taking yelp update
[09:18] <seb128> good luck ;-)
[09:19] <seb128> I think we synced the debian version using the webkit codebase
[09:19] <seb128> not sure how that would apply to current
[09:19] <seb128> don't bother too much with it if it's not trivial
[09:20] <didrocks> seb128: it's not :-)
[09:21] <didrocks> ok, delaying this one
[09:21] <didrocks> seb128: btw, my gnome-doc-utils upload was rejected
[09:21] <didrocks> (permission)
[09:21] <seb128> I start hating those team uploads
[09:21] <seb128> I can sponsor it for you
[09:21] <mvo> chrisccoulson: nice, thanks. I added the info I gathered into the bugreport
[09:22] <didrocks> seb128: ~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-doc-utils/ubuntu
[09:22] <chrisccoulson> mvo - thanks
[09:22] <didrocks> thanks :)
[09:22] <seb128> you guys should apply for main upload
[09:22] <mvo> it makes http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/ look unhappy, this is why I care
[09:22] <seb128> mvo, how come, we should have neither deskbar nor tracker installed
[09:22] <seb128> especially not on server...
[09:22] <mvo> seb128: it comes from a hardy->lucid one
[09:23] <seb128> I don't think we had tracker by default in hardy, did we?
[09:23] <mvo> seb128: the upgrade tester tests a bunch of different setups, server is doing fine, desktop not currently, I fixed a bug in g-t
[09:23] <mvo> seb128: I don't know, I use whatever apt-get install ubuntu-desktop gives me
[09:24] <seb128> that sucks
[09:24] <mvo> seb128: even then, its still a bug and would show up in the "main-all" profile otherwise
[09:24] <mvo> hu? that we have bugs?
[09:24] <seb128> it means people upgrading will get that buggy ressource sink on karmic?
[09:24] <mvo> or that we have tools to discover them ,)
[09:24] <seb128> can't we fix that?
[09:24] <didrocks> taking gnome-games, testing will be a little relaxing :)
[09:24] <seb128> no, to have tracker on upgrade
[09:24] <mvo> manybe we should get it out of main if it sucks?
[09:24] <seb128> it's eating ios and power for no use
[09:24] <mvo> I mean, removing it is trivial
[09:24] <seb128> +1
[09:25] <mvo> heh :)
[09:26] <mvo> I check why its there (well, I added to check on my todo list)
[09:40] <seb128_> re
[09:40] <seb128_> got disconnected
[09:53] <pitti> seb128_, didrocks: am I ok to touch gnome-control-center?
[09:53] <didrocks> pitti: sure
[09:53]  * pitti has an one-second boot speed present
[09:55] <seb128_> pitti, if you touch it you do the version update too :-p
[09:56] <seb128_> pitti, urg? gnome-control-center is supposed to not be running at all at login
[09:56] <seb128_> it's only the capplets nowadays
[09:56] <pitti> seb128_: no, but adding an AutostartCondition to /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-at-session.desktop works wonders :)
[09:56] <pitti> it avoids calling gconftool and a shell script which just checks a gconf key and exits
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> pitti - what phase does that start in?
[09:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: normal app phase
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thats ok then
[09:57] <seb128_> who cares about accessiblity after all
[09:57] <seb128_> ;-)
[09:57] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-1.png
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti - did you manage to test the packages in http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/desktop-startup-speed/ ?
[09:57] <pitti> it's the gnome-at-visual/gconftool-2 pair
[09:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: not yet, sorry
[09:58] <seb128_> pitti, it's weird
[09:58] <pitti> took me a bit to repair firefox, and I'm still fighting with glib
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no worries
[09:58] <pitti> seb128_: why?
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - you're testing the UNE sessionn aren't you?
[09:58] <seb128_> pitti, I would have though that AutostartCondition would be as expensive
[09:58] <seb128_> if that's about reading a gconf key too
[09:58] <pitti> seb128_: right, but this executes a shell script plus gconftool-2, as in the program
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> seb128_ - with my changes, gconf should be ready by the time the autostart condition is read
[09:59] <pitti> seb128_: I expect that gnome-session just uses a library call, and has gconf connection already
[09:59] <pitti> and other desktop files have an AutostartCondition already, so one more check should be trivial
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> part of my gnome-session patch delays reading the value for the autostart condition until necessary
[10:00] <seb128_> pitti, I'm just surprised it costs that much but good ;-)
[10:00] <seb128_> I'm checking there
[10:00] <seb128_> last time I tried to drop all the autostart it was winning less than 1 second there
[10:00] <seb128_> the autostart*s*
[10:00] <seb128_> ie, /etc/xdg/autostart
[10:02] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-1-gnome-at-autostartcond.png
[10:02] <pitti> oh, I see
[10:02] <pitti> it moved the "I'm done" bar much more to the front
[10:02] <seb128_> pitti, commenting it in the session capplet makes no win there
[10:02] <seb128_> it was 0.2 seconds slower in fact
[10:03] <seb128_> but that's random difference between boots
[10:03] <pitti> weird; saving a shell script and yet another external program (gconf) should be expensive
[10:03] <pitti> s/saving/calling/
[10:03] <pitti> hm
[10:03] <pitti> I do another one, to compare
[10:03] <seb128_> in the 0.1s magnitude expensive I would say
[10:04] <seb128_> we have lot of those ran
[10:04] <seb128_> as chrisccoulson said yesterday
[10:04] <seb128_> all those .desktop with a sleep
[10:04] <pitti> seb128_: so you wouldn't like to see the change?
[10:05] <seb128_> pitti, I do, I was just surprised that it won so much to you because I tried to disable the autostarts there and it was not making such a difference
[10:05] <seb128_> still seem a good idea
[10:05] <pitti> seb128_: as I said, it wasn't actually winning a second; it just lightened the load a bit, and bootchart considered the startup done earlier
[10:05] <seb128_> and should be a bit less expensive even if it's not a one second win
[10:05] <seb128_> right
[10:05]  * seb128_ hugs pitti
[10:05] <pitti> ok
[10:06] <pitti> seb128_: I'll do the new version, too, then
[10:06] <pitti> next on my list is to identify this python process
[10:06] <seb128_> pitti, don't bother
[10:06] <pitti> the only two python things that we start are the printer applet and jockey
[10:06] <pitti> but both have a sleep before
[10:06] <pitti> seb128_: bother> about the python one?
[10:06] <pitti> you know what it is?
[10:06] <seb128_> pitti, the sleep one is the scriptto add indicator applet
[10:07] <seb128_> add-indicator-applet.py
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do we need to delay starting those with a sleep?
[10:07] <pitti> seb128_: right, but that also has sleep
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> if so, i can implement a gnome-session to add a autostart delay key to the desktop files
[10:07] <pitti> seb128_: (but right, that's the third python one)
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> to avoid spawning a shell
[10:07] <seb128_> chrisccoulson, would be nice
[10:07] <pitti> chrisccoulson: that would be great indeed
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> cool, i'll work on that then
[10:11] <pitti> seb128_: right, but on our charts there's a python process which starts right away; so you don't know what that is either?
[10:12] <seb128_> pitti, no
[10:15]  * didrocks marks this day as being the easiest update of gnome-games ever done (nothing to touch to the packaging \o/). Just had to trigger the build twice because of a xml2po call failing
[10:15] <seb128_> hehe
[10:15] <seb128_> chrisccoulson, the gnome-session capplet still fails to store change when closed to quickly
[10:15] <seb128_> I keep getting the issue
[10:16] <chrisccoulson> seb128_ - did we ever backport the change from git to fix that?
[10:16] <seb128_> dunno
[10:16] <chrisccoulson> i don't think we did, and there hasn't been a release this cycle
[10:16]  * seb128_ looks
[10:17] <lool> didrocks: Is there a Vcs-Bzr for wncksync?
[10:17] <seb128_> chrisccoulson, you are right
[10:17] <seb128_> thanks
[10:17] <didrocks> wncksync is in universe when it was NEWed? I was thinking it was promoted to main in the first shot
[10:17] <didrocks> lool: it's directly lp:ubuntu/wncksync
[10:18] <asac> strange ... since a few days my irssi refuses to autojoin #ubuntu-desktop #ubuntu-motu and #ubuntu-bugs ... every other channel seems to be fine :/
[10:19] <seb128_> you need to be registered I think
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> seb128_ - http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-session/commit/?id=dd9df169196441717498ac09ee8c437fb552116e
[10:19] <seb128_> they got some spambot issues or something
[10:19] <asac> when did tha tchange?
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> asac - at the weekend i think
[10:19] <asac> oh right #ubuntu-devel has the same problem somewhat
[10:19] <asac> i am registered
[10:19] <asac> guess its a race
[10:19] <asac> e.g. first join then register or something
[10:21] <asac> who is leading this anti spambot effort?
[10:22]  * asac finds this kind of a drastic measure
[10:22] <asac> if permanently
[10:25] <lool> asac: Perhaps they lowered the number of channels one is allowed to join?
[10:25] <lool> I know I've hit that limit a bunch of time
[10:25] <hyperair> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne/Ubuntu9.10 <-- i'm thinking it might be a good idea to include the pm-utils sleep hook script on that page in our pm-utils package.
[10:25] <lool> I have to identify before /join-ing
[10:25] <hyperair> does anyone have an opinion?
[10:25] <seb128_> pitti, python seems to come from the print applet, dunno why though
[10:25] <pitti> seb128_: weird; it also has a sleep
[10:25] <asac> lool: hmm maybe
[10:25] <pitti> anyway, I'll track it down
[10:26] <pitti> seb128_: I finished wrestling with glib, so this has my full attention again :)
[10:26] <lool> didrocks: In wncksync changelog,     - change libglib2.0-dev version dependency to get glib fix
[10:26] <lool> didrocks: Could you expand on that?
[10:26] <lool> didrocks: Which fix is that?
[10:26] <seb128_> lool, 71_gio...
[10:26] <seb128_> lool, it's a patch which adds a feature wncksync needs
[10:26] <lool> Ok; thanks
[10:27] <seb128_> pitti, did you manage to improve glib?
[10:28] <lool> seb128: Is there a Vcs-Bzr for glib2.0 or do you use lp:ubuntu/glib2.0 as well?
[10:28] <seb128> lool, no
[10:29] <lool> You don't use any?
[10:29] <seb128> lool, we are in sync with debian most of the time
[10:29] <seb128> so I didn't bother setting a vcs to have extra work when doing syncs
[10:29] <seb128> I guess we could use lp:ubuntu/glib2.0
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: the assert msg patch caused some problems, fixed now
[10:30] <lool> seb128: Ok
[10:30] <seb128> pitti, the upstream version?
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: right
[10:30] <lool> seb128: Ah glib2.0 isn't imported
[10:30] <seb128> pitti, ok, sorry about that
[10:31] <seb128> pitti, how did you notice?
[10:31] <seb128> pitti, just curious to improve my glib testing before upload ;-)
[10:31] <pitti> seb128: mclasen pinged me about https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594872
[10:31] <seb128> oh ok
[10:31] <pitti> seb128: the private glibc symbol caused some linking problems on Fedora  apparently
[10:31] <pitti> seb128: and "make distcheck" was failing (due to the out-of-tree build)
[10:32] <pitti> seb128: don't worry, they didn't come and say "OMGyoubrokeithowcanyoubesobad", they just asked me whether I can look into it :)
[10:32] <seb128> ok, good
[10:33] <pitti> hm, g-c-c 2.29.6 has a NEWS file from 2.29.4
[10:33] <pitti> don't they get updated usually?
[10:35] <pitti> ah, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/log/ is small enough
[10:37] <lool> seb128: Is it ok to push glib2.0 (just a trivial packaging change)
[10:37] <lool> Or do you have lots of GNOME stuff in the pipe which might FTBFS?
[10:38] <seb128> lool, talk to pitti, he was just working on it
[10:38] <lool> pitti: ^
[10:38] <seb128> lool, we will deal with build retry for GNOME updates
[10:38] <pitti> lool: I have nothing urgent for glib2.0
[10:39] <lool> It's not urgent here either, just doing it now if I can forget about it  ;)
[10:39] <pitti> what I just talked about was purely an upstream issue, no hurry to get that in
[10:39] <pitti> lool: do it :)
[10:39] <lool> lintian is on crack today
[10:39] <lool> W: glib2.0 source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff libglib2.0-0.install and 1 more
[10:40] <seb128> lool, did you upload already?
[10:40] <lool> No
[10:41] <seb128> lool, would be nice to rebase on debian if you want to do it ;-)
[10:41] <seb128> lool, slomo did the update and did the gio-query call as a trigger
[10:41] <seb128> the only change we have should be the gio change for wncksync
[10:43] <lool> Ok
[10:43] <seb128> thanks
[10:54] <lool> Guess what -- lintian was not on crack!
[10:55] <lool> glib2.0-2.23.2/libglib2.0-0.install
[10:55] <lool> glib2.0-2.23.2/libglib2.0-dev.install
[10:55] <lool> In the patch
[10:55] <seb128> urg
[10:58] <seb128> didrocks, you can do the gvfs update btw
[10:58] <seb128> the gio lazy init might win some speed
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: ah, I know now; it seems that bootchart retroactively labels the shell process (which first ran sleep) "python", since that execs
[11:01] <pitti> so it's not really running python
[11:01] <seb128> ok
[11:01] <seb128> same issue than the ssh-agent one
[11:02] <asac> to which locations can i put .desktop files to make them appear in the gnome menu?
[11:02] <asac> (user locations)
[11:04] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i saw you just update g-s-d. i'll have a g-s-d change for you later, to fix the volume notification overshoot which doesn't work
[11:04] <chrisccoulson> (when it stops crashing with my change in anyway)
[11:05] <seb128> asac, .local/share/applications
[11:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
[11:07] <pitti> njpatel: good morning
[11:07] <pitti> njpatel: my wncksync branch was approved; do I need anything to merge it? (I can't do it myself)
[11:08] <asac> seb128: do you know if its possible to overwrite a system .desktop file in that way? e.g. by using the same name or something?
[11:08] <njpatel> pitti, will get dbo to merge and make a release, we have another thing that needs to be fixed too, so we can roll your work and that together in a release
[11:09] <pitti> njpatel: thanks
[11:09] <seb128> asac, yes it is
[11:09] <pitti> njpatel: other question, did you ever test when mutter actually starts loading the plugins?
[11:09] <asac> i basically want to ship a generic .desktop file (like mail) and then based on the user decision change the name/icon slightly
[11:09] <asac> e.g. evo tbird, gmail etc.
[11:09] <pitti> njpatel: IOW, how much of the 7.5 second mutter startup is due to the plugin, and how much due to mutter init?
[11:09] <asac> seb128: cool so if i put the same file name there it will replace the system one?
[11:10] <seb128> asac, I think it should
[11:10]  * asac tries
[11:10] <pitti> njpatel: (sorry, it's more like 6.2 s; mislooked)
[11:10] <didrocks> seb128: ok, putting gvfs on my queue :) (fixing some une related stuff now)
[11:10] <seb128> ok thanks
[11:11] <asac> yay
[11:11] <asac> that really works
[11:11] <asac> !!
[11:11] <seb128> ;-)
[11:12] <asac> why is everything so easy ... boring ;)
[11:12] <seb128> asac, speaking of desktop files btw
[11:12] <seb128> asac, bug #512692 known issue?
[11:12] <seb128> asac, did you rename or drop the desktop entry?
[11:13] <njpatel> pitti, I don't think we know exactly when it starts loading plugins
[11:13] <asac> seb128: should be still firefox.desktop ... i think i even tried that
[11:13] <asac> hmm
[11:13] <asac> so the icon name might have changed
[11:13] <asac> guess if someone sets up a launcher manually that would break
[11:13] <pitti> njpatel: ok; I think I'll test that then
[11:14] <asac> is our default launcher setup manually?
[11:14] <njpatel> pitti, cool, that would be useful info
[11:14] <pitti> njpatel: btw, looking at the large gaps in mutter, can it be that the plugin does parts of the initialization in an idle loop?
[11:15] <pitti> njpatel: I suppose it doesn't have lots of sleeps in it, or sth like that :)
[11:15] <njpatel> pitti, yes, it does
[11:15] <njpatel> (I thought I mentioned that :)
[11:15] <seb128> asac, no, it's part of the gnome-panel profile
[11:15] <asac> seb128: what i verified was to add a launcher with right click in the menu for 3.5 and then upgraded ...killall gnome-panel etc.
[11:15] <pitti> njpatel: ah; that explains why it's so scattered
[11:15] <pitti> njpatel: right, ISTR that you talked about it, but wanted to confirm
[11:15] <didrocks> seb128: the gio-querymodules is the new glib stuff, right?
[11:15] <seb128> asac, +        <string>firefox.desktop</string>
[11:15] <asac> seb128: right. but does that refer to the .desktop file?
[11:15] <asac> hmm
[11:15] <asac> ok
[11:15] <asac> thats ok
[11:15] <seb128> asac, I will try there and ping you back
[11:15] <seb128> didrocks, yes, don't bother about it
[11:15] <asac> thanks ...
[11:16] <seb128> didrocks, new glib will have a trigger for those
[11:16] <njpatel> pitti, we try and hand back the main-loop to mutter asap, so it can present the desktop to the user. The rest we do as in idle once that is done.
[11:16] <didrocks> seb128: ok, thanks :)
[11:16] <njpatel> pitti, that's what I meant that the time bootchart shows will be a bit different than the time it really 'feels' like the desktop is loaded
[11:17] <pitti> njpatel: that's true
[11:17] <pitti> I'm afraid there's a mismatch between what an user considers as "done" and what bootchart does..
[11:18] <njpatel> Sure, but I don't think we should be initiall blocking the WM from loading too much (we may still push more things out of the _init). Just because we're uncessarily blocking (the user doesn't need the places straight away)
[11:23] <lool> didrocks: Could someone from DX subscribe to the wncksync bugs in launchpad?  or at least the ubuntu desktop bug contact?
[11:24] <didrocks> lool: I can suscribe, it makes sense, or DBO, maybe <- njpatel ?
[11:25] <njpatel> didrocks, canonical-dx-team for now, I think
[11:25] <lool> I just would like someone to tend to it for the MIR
[11:25] <lool> (I mean I'd like to be able to write that someone will care for it)
[11:25] <njpatel> dbo is part-time, so not always around if something critical pops up
[11:25] <njpatel> lool, does this need to be done in LP, or just let you know?
[11:25] <didrocks> njpatel: can you do it for canonical-dx-team, so?
[11:26] <lool> njpatel: Not sure what you mean?
[11:26] <lool> njpatel: I can do it for you if you like
[11:26] <njpatel> didrocks, where do I set it? In the wncksync project?
[11:26] <lool> njpatel: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wncksync
[11:27] <lool> => subscribe to bug mail
[11:27] <didrocks> njpatel: yes
[11:27] <lool> click the team
[11:27] <lool> njpatel: No I'm speaking of the Ubuntu source package
[11:27] <lool> Basically I want someone to care for Ubuntu bugs in the package
[11:28] <didrocks> lool: the MIR is only for the ubuntu package subscribers? I was thinking we needed an upstream contact as well (from the MIR template)
[11:28] <njpatel> didrocks, lool: thanks, done
[11:29] <pitti> bah, this dell mini touchpad is an insult to humanity
[11:29] <didrocks> pitti: +1
[11:29] <seb128> lol
[11:30] <seb128> those who have a mini, is bluetooth working for you?
[11:30] <didrocks> seb128: I'm not using bluetooth, so, didn't test, sorry
[11:30] <seb128> well, is the icon active in the notification area?
[11:30] <seb128> or is it greyed
[11:31] <seb128> no need to use it
[11:31] <lool> pitti: Since wncksync seemed like a blocker for liblauncher, I picked up the MIR writing *and* review; see bug #512724; it's a relatively simple package, so I think it's ok, but feel free to take another look
[11:32] <pitti> seb128: didn't try yet, sorry
[11:32] <lool> pitti: Otherwise, it's +1 from me, please promote when you're ok with it to unblock liblauncher
[11:32] <pitti> lool: I agree; I sponsored it and hacked in it; I actually thought it would be in main already
[11:32] <pitti> lool: thanks a lot
[11:32] <seb128> pitti, next time you boot the boot can you just try to the icon?
[11:32] <pitti> seb128: it's booted right now
[11:32] <seb128> the boot -> the box
[11:32] <seb128> pitti, can you look if the bluetooth icon is greyed or not?
[11:32] <seb128> or open the preferences dialog
[11:33] <pitti> seb128: it's greyed, yes
[11:33] <seb128> pitti, ok thanks
[11:33] <seb128> I guess it's a bug then
[11:33] <pitti> but it says "BT on"/"Turn off BT"
[11:33] <seb128> I was just trying to make sure it's not a local issue
[11:33] <seb128> right, same here
[11:33] <seb128> and the preference dialog has a turn on button
[11:33] <seb128> which does nothing
[11:34] <didrocks> seb128: same for me, greyed
[11:34] <seb128> didrocks, pitti: thanks
[11:34] <seb128> I just got myself a bluetooth mouse
[11:34] <seb128> to avoid the mini touchpad
[11:34] <seb128> that's a fail ;-)
[11:34]  * pitti has an external usb one
[11:34] <pitti> seb128: is it turned off in the bios perhaps?
[11:34] <seb128> no
[11:34] <seb128> I checked that
[11:34] <pitti> on my laptop I also get this silly BT icon
[11:35] <pitti> but there it says "BT: disabled"
[11:35] <pitti> this should not appear in the first place..
[11:36] <Hobbsee> asac: freenode itself is recommending the mode changes which force you to register before joining, afaik
[11:38] <Hobbsee> asac: http://blog.freenode.net/2010/01/javascript-spam/ fwiw
[11:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/
[11:41] <pitti> I did the before/after charts twice each, to see what's noise and what's change
[11:42] <pitti> chrisccoulson: for some reason it increased boot time by .5 s :(
[11:42] <seb128> the red line is buggy
[11:42] <seb128> there is still busy processes after it
[11:42] <pitti> ah, right
[11:42] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks. so, it doesn't really make a great deal of difference. gsd still blocks waiting for gconf to finish
[11:42] <pitti> sorry
[11:42] <pitti> let's take the end of mutter as a reference
[11:44] <pitti> the latency of the "apps" phase start didn't change apparently :(
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, all that's happened is gsd takes slightly longer now, because it is waiting for gconf to be ready
[11:45] <pitti> chrisccoulson: g-s-d seems to start a little earlier, though
[11:46] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's expected, as gnome-session doesn't have to wait any more
[11:46] <pitti> I don't see the effect of the gconfd change, though; it already loaded the xml right from the start before
[11:47] <chrisccoulson> pitti - that was because applications queried for a value right away
[11:47] <chrisccoulson> i see gconfd actually takes quite a while to start there for some reason
[11:47] <chrisccoulson> it's only just starting when gsd starts
[11:50] <pitti> chrisccoulson: at the time when g-session starts, we still have a free CPU for a second
[11:50] <pitti> any chance we could squeeze it in there?
[11:51] <pitti> chrisccoulson: anything else I should measure for you?
[11:52]  * pitti aims his gun at the redundant pulseaudio startups and mutter calling gconftool
[11:55] <pitti> Riddell: would you mind adding ttf-wqy-microhei to the Kubuntu seed only? in Ubuntu we now end up with having both -zenhei and -microhei
[11:56] <pitti> Riddell: (I'm fine to do the change, just checking)
[11:56] <Riddell> pitti: yeah that's fine
[11:59] <pitti> Riddell: thanks; done
[12:00] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure gnome-session really starts where it appears to on that chart. i think that the start of gnome-session is actually where ssh-agent starts, based on what we discussed yesterday. gnome-session then spawns gconf-sanity-check-2 almost straight away,which should activate gconfd, but there appears to be a delay there
[12:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: right; I think it really starts at the first blue line in g-s-d
[12:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it seems to. i wonder if the delay there is due to the dbus activation
[12:04] <pitti> njpatel:
[12:05] <pitti> Failed to fetch desktop file: Failed to execute program @LIBEXECDIR@/wncksyncdaemon: Success
[12:05] <pitti> does that ring a bell?
[12:05] <pitti> looks like some template doesn't get filled in during build or so?
[12:05] <njpatel> pitti, yep, that's the other fix I mentioned
[12:06] <pitti> njpatel: anyway, mutter plugin gets loaded 0.67 seconds after mutter starts; not too bad
[12:06] <njpatel> sounds good
[12:07] <didrocks> pitti: do I need to trigger something now that wnsync is in main? (https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liblauncher/0.3.6-0ubuntu1/+build/1452358, no build button)
[12:07] <pitti> didrocks: it should auto-retry once it's published
[12:07] <pitti> didrocks: (it does have a "Retry this build" link, though)
[12:08] <didrocks> pitti: I don't have it on that page. Should be permission thing…
[12:08] <pitti> ah, perhaps
[12:17] <strycore> Hi
[12:18] <strycore> I can't get the python bindings for libapplicator on Lucid
[12:18] <seb128> hi
[12:18] <seb128> why not?
[12:19] <pitti> seb128: hm, moving away /etc/xdg/autostart/ is a 4 second difference here..
[12:19] <strycore> I tried building the source from the launchpad page but there's still no module appindicator
[12:19] <huats> hello everyone
[12:19] <seb128> hi huats
[12:19] <huats> hey seb128
[12:20] <seb128> strycore, the binary is in lucid
[12:20] <seb128> pitti, do you get gnome-settings-daemon to run?
[12:20] <pitti> seb128: no, I don't
[12:20] <strycore> oh sorry I was looking in the wrong place in didn't see the package in synaptic
[12:20] <pitti> I was just curious
[12:20] <seb128> pitti, I might have moved everything not being a base component
[12:20] <pitti> since on that chart you have a better view what mutter/g-p are doing
[12:20] <seb128> pitti, ie I let g-s-d gnome-keyring
[12:20] <strycore> that should fix it :)
[12:21] <pitti> seb128: that's actually a good thing; since it allows us to re-enable stuff individually, for better benchmarking
[12:22] <seb128> pitti, how long does desktop take without the autostarts?
[12:23] <pitti> seb128: little less than 5 s
[12:23] <pitti> 4.4 s or so
[12:23] <chrisccoulson> if you want a session without running anything from /etc/xd/autostart, then you can just use a failsafe session
[12:23] <seb128> ok
[12:23] <seb128> still not in target but almost
[12:23] <pitti> chrisccoulson: right, but I want to reenable stuff selectively
[12:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, would work if that option was not buggy
[12:23] <chrisccoulson> oh, it doesn't work?
[12:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson was on it
[12:24] <seb128> xorg was mangling any argument after space in the command
[12:24] <seb128> and seahorse too
[12:24] <seb128> no "gnome-session" was called the normal way
[12:24] <seb128> no -> so
[12:24] <seb128> we discussed it some days ago
[12:24] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[12:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/stock-noautostart.png vs. http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/chris-noautostart.png
[12:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: there you see that your changes indeed improve the latency
[12:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I guess with autostart the CPU is just full, so that it doesn't actually help
[12:28] <pitti> but it seems to weaken the dependencies indeed
[12:31] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the charts still seem to show a ~200ms delay starting gconfd. you can see that there is a delay after gconf-sanity-check2 finishing, and gconfd starting, which i assume is just related to dbus
[12:32] <didrocks> seb128: did you have the time to take a look at gnome-doc-utils? (should be trivial)
[12:32] <chrisccoulson> there might be a quicker way of doing tha
[12:32] <seb128> didrocks, ups no I totally forgot
[12:32] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, it looks like dbus is started some ms before that already
[12:32] <seb128> didrocks, doing that now
[12:32] <pitti> but of course it might need some time to settle
[12:32] <didrocks> seb128: that's why I'm pinging you ;)
[12:32] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's what i'm thinking
[12:33] <chrisccoulson> pitti - perhaps if we just exec gconfd rather than activating it over dbus, then it might be quicker
[12:33] <chrisccoulson> anyway, lunch time for me. bbl
[12:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, enjoy
[12:34] <pitti> lunch, good idea! /me follows
[12:34]  * seb128 is just back from lunch
[12:36] <huats> does anyone remember where is set the default "distribution"  used in dch ? (I mean the one which is used when I simply type dch -i) ?
[12:38] <pitti> huats: hardcoded in /usr/bin/debchange
[12:38] <pitti>     if ($distributor eq 'Ubuntu') {
[12:38] <pitti>         # In Ubuntu uploads should go to lucid
[12:38] <pitti>         $DISTRIBUTION = 'lucid';
[12:39] <huats> pitti, ok... I understand now...
[12:39] <huats> pitti,  thanks !
[12:43] <seb128> ls
[12:43] <seb128> ups
[12:43] <seb128> doing the totem-pl-parser update
[12:43] <seb128> didrocks, ^
[12:43] <didrocks> ok
[12:59] <seb128> didrocks, in fact not, starting on some bootspeed work instead for now since I'm a bit behind on that
[13:00] <seb128> didrocks, feel free to do it if you want or I will have a look to that later
[13:00] <didrocks> seb128: ok, trying to do totem and totem-pl-parser
[13:00] <seb128> thanks
[13:00] <seb128> and don't forget gvfs ;-)
[13:00] <didrocks> I'm still on UNE related fixes, so, it can takes a while
[13:00] <didrocks> gfvs is done :)
[13:00] <seb128> (I'm curious to know if lazy init wins boot speed)
[13:00] <seb128> excellent
[13:00] <didrocks> of course, permission denied :/
[13:00] <didrocks> grrr
[13:01] <seb128> didrocks, the upload didn't make through?
[13:01] <seb128> ok, what I though
[13:01] <seb128> I will sponsor it for you
[13:01] <didrocks> didrocks: pushed at ~ubuntu-desktop/gvfs/ubuntu
[13:01] <didrocks> thanks
[13:02] <seb128> didrocks, stop talking to yourself! ;-)
[13:02] <seb128> didrocks, you should do a lunch break if you didn't btw
[13:02] <didrocks> seb128: I still didn't, but I think tat those two days aren't good days for me :-)
[13:03] <seb128> why not?
[13:03] <didrocks> seb128: dunno, lot of interrupts, udw to prepare in parallel, stress, etc.
[13:04]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[13:04]  * didrocks hugs seb128 back
[13:04] <seb128> IRC is not always fun, you should put it on the side
[13:04] <seb128> at least if you need to focus on something
[13:05] <didrocks> yes, I think I'll follow your piece of advice
[13:19] <pitti> seb128: yay, my g-c-c patch was accepted upstream
[13:19]  * pitti pushes
[13:20] <seb128> ;-)
[13:21] <seb128> pitti, just curious where did you get review?
[13:21] <pitti> seb128: jens changed the patch status to "accepted-commit_now"
[13:21] <seb128> pitti, there is only comments from you in bugzilla
[13:21] <seb128> oh ok
[13:21] <pitti> oh, indeed
[13:21] <seb128> confusing ;-)
[13:21] <pitti> I got the bug mail
[13:21] <mclasen> hey, pitti
[13:21] <pitti> yes, it ought to mention the status changes in the web ui, too
[13:21] <mclasen> I ran into some trouble with your __abort_msg trick
[13:21] <pitti> hey mclasen; sorry, was at Taekwondo last night, missed you
[13:22] <pitti> mclasen: ugh, the new patch still fails?
[13:22] <mclasen> well, it builds fine
[13:22] <mclasen> but it adds a dep on GLIBC_PRIVATE to our glib rpm
[13:22] <pitti> mclasen: right; I mean the new patch from this morning
[13:22] <mclasen> which makes it uninstallable, since the glibc rpm doesn't provide that
[13:22] <mclasen> because it is, well, private
[13:23] <mclasen> oh, haven't seen a new patch
[13:23] <mclasen> let me look
[13:23] <mclasen> I just force-undef'ed your HAVE_ASSERT_MSG macro for now in the Fedora build
[13:23] <pitti> mclasen: I sent two followups and a patch to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594872
[13:23] <mclasen> how does this work in Ubuntu, don
[13:23] <mclasen> t you check symbol version provides ?
[13:24] <mclasen> or does your glibc not filter out GLIBC_PRIVATE ?
[13:24] <pitti> mclasen: not all of our libraries use per-symbol version tracking
[13:25] <pitti> in fact, that was only introduced a year or two ago
[13:25] <pitti> most just use a thing called "shlibs versions" which needs to be bumped each time the library changes abi
[13:25] <mclasen> ah, well, the patch looks like it will solve the issue, anyway. Can you commit that ?
[13:26] <pitti> mclasen: sure, I can, if it gets blessed by you
[13:26] <pitti> mclasen: I'm 90% sure that make distcheck will now work for you, too, but as I said in the bug I couldn't test it end to end
[13:26] <pitti> "make check" works fine for me, but distcheck hangs in the pipe-io test
[13:28] <seb128> pitti, btw did you drop that email on the devicekit list yesterday?
[13:28] <pitti> seb128: I sent it to Richard, yes
[13:28] <seb128> ok thanks
[13:28] <pitti> oh, not on the list, though; I understood it as "send a mail to remind me"
[13:28] <seb128> just checking since you are so busy ;-)
[13:28] <pitti> but I can bounce it to the ML
[13:29] <seb128> pitti, no I think that's fine, thanks
[13:29] <seb128> brb, restarting my session to stop the pc speaker that drives me crazy to have it on each tab completion
[13:39] <seb128> the current bootchart on my laptop is weird
[13:41] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-laptop-lucid-20100126-3.png
[13:41] <baptistemm> how often ureadhead do a re-profiling ?
[13:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: have you seen similar issues? g-s-d is sitting there 2 seconds before starting work
[13:45] <pitti> seb128: strange; then again, I didn't do a recent bootchart on my laptop
[13:45] <pitti> seb128: do you  always get that? or is that new from today?
[13:45] <pitti> oh, hang on
[13:45] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/tick-lucid-20100122-2.png
[13:45] <pitti> I get it, too
[13:45] <pitti> seb128: I wonder if that's delay from xrandr, which reconfigures my screens?
[13:45] <seb128> pitti, always
[13:46] <pitti> I am using a dock, just like you (I think)
[13:46] <seb128> pitti, could be...
[13:46] <seb128> yes, that's my laptop docked
[13:46] <pitti> and I have a .config/monitors.xml
[13:46] <seb128> same here
[13:46] <seb128> 2 seconds is a while!
[13:46] <pitti> with nowadays' i915 fix I probably don't need that any more
[13:46] <seb128> I will try laptop not docked without the config
[13:46] <pitti> seb128: also, try docked without config
[13:47] <seb128> right
[13:47]  * seb128 deletes config, let's see at next reboot
[13:47] <didrocks> seb128: totem-pl-parser has been synced from debian. Should I still use lp:~ubuntu-desktop/totem-pl-parser/ubuntu ? Ie: update it with last debian change in a commit and then, updating it?
[13:47] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[13:48] <didrocks> ok, thanks
[13:48] <seb128> didrocks, thank you
[13:48] <didrocks> y/w :)
[14:05] <pitti> seb128, chrisccoulson: do you know what /usr/lib/gnome-session/helpers/gnome-settings-daemon-helper is?
[14:07] <pitti> crimsun: do you know why we need /etc/xdg/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop, given that pulse is already triggered on demand anyway? removing it doesn't seem to cause any obvious effect (except for saving some cycles on login)
[14:08] <seb128> pitti,
[14:08] <seb128> pitti, see README in gnome-session/compat
[14:09] <pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
[14:10] <pitti> setting the screen res? I isn't that the xrandr plugin?
[14:10] <seb128> pitti, the screen thing is deprecated
[14:10] <seb128> pitti, see the .c file in the same dir
[14:10] <seb128> it's trivial
[14:10] <seb128> pitti, ie we can drop it
[14:10] <pitti> indeed
[14:10] <seb128> we don't ship gtk1.2 for some cycle
[14:10] <pitti> gtk1 -> gone
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> pitti / seb128 - yeah, i planned to drop that next time i did anything with gnome-session
[14:11] <pitti> probably saves like 0.01 s :)
[14:11] <seb128> pitti, want me to drop it?
[14:11] <seb128> pitti, I was going to backport a git change to fix an issue with the capplet
[14:11] <seb128> pitti, I can sneak that in the same upload
[14:11] <pitti> seb128: if you are at g-s already, please do
[14:11] <seb128> ok, will do
[14:12] <pitti> seb128: unfortunately the preinst doesn't have the rm_conffile function yet, but that's easy to copy
[14:12] <seb128> yes, I'm used to that one by now ;-)
[14:12]  * pitti still trackign down what the heck calls gconftool-2
[14:13] <seb128> pitti, gnome-at-visual?
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - if you're doing a gnome-session upload, it might be worth also fixing bug 457104
[14:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ah thanks
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> it's just a conffile cleanup
[14:13] <pitti> seb128: no, that's gone already; I mean the one below mutter in http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/stock-noautostart.png
[14:14] <seb128> pitti, the logic would say it's mutter calling it
[14:14] <pitti> I eliminated autostart,  maximus, and ssh-agent
[14:14] <seb128> pitti, or maximus
[14:14] <pitti> seb128: right, but I grepped gnome-session and mutter for it, neither have a spawn
[14:14] <pitti> or exec for gconftool
[14:14] <seb128> pitti, so mutter, by following the dots going up on the chart
[14:14] <pitti> anyway, I'll get it eventually
[14:15]  * pitti disables mutter next
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it wouldn't surprise me if mutter does it
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> i'm sure metacity does the same thing
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> so it doesnt need to link libgconf
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> i could be wrong though
[14:16] <pitti> find -name '*.c' | xargs grep -i gconftool
[14:16] <pitti> -> nothing
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> hmm  :-/
[14:16]  * pitti enjoys the goose chase
[14:16] <seb128> pitti, if you don't limit to .c?
[14:16] <seb128> pitti, could have some sort of wrapper there...
[14:16] <pitti> already tried; just configure, Makefile.in, aclocal, that stuff
[14:17] <pitti> it uses it in the build system
[14:17] <seb128> ok
[14:17] <pitti> oh, hang on
[14:17] <pitti> I chmod'ed mutter
[14:17] <pitti> and now UNE starts compiz
[14:17]  * pitti eyes at /usr/bin/gnome-wm
[14:17] <pitti> are we actually using that?
[14:18] <seb128> pitti, look to gconf /desktop/gnome/session
[14:18] <seb128> pitti, the wm is part of the required component
[14:18] <seb128> we set gnome-wm on the desktop install
[14:18] <seb128> not sure how une hijack that one
[14:19] <pitti> aah
[14:19] <didrocks> une force gnome-wm as mandatory (this is part of my recent fix)
[14:19] <pitti> didrocks: can we just force mutter instead?
[14:19]  * pitti tries
[14:19] <didrocks> pitti: sure, do you want me to change that?
[14:19] <pitti> didrocks: let me run a test and see what difference it makes
[14:19] <didrocks> (that's what the capplet does in fact)
[14:19] <didrocks> ok
[14:19] <pitti> but this seems to block the entire thing
[14:19] <pitti> and since it uses "exec", you don't see it on the chart
[14:20] <seb128> pitti, well it calls gconftool so yes you get a gconf init hit there
[14:20] <pitti> looks like a > 0.5 second latency
[14:20] <didrocks> right, and it calls gconftool
[14:20] <seb128> if it's not used before
[14:20] <didrocks> seb128: too fast :)
[14:20]  * pitti <- beware! on the hunt!
[14:24] <seb128> pitti, if you change mutter you might want drop the session phase in the desktop entry
[14:24] <seb128> pitti, I did it for gnome-wm but not for mutter so other things will wait for it to register to goon
[14:24] <seb128> go on
[14:25] <pitti> seb128: oh, I'll try that
[14:25] <pitti> (I wasn't going to change mutter, just u-netbook-default-settings, but still good to know)
[14:25] <seb128> pitti, just comment the mutter.desktop line
[14:25] <pitti> didrocks: mutter isn't in any bzr yet, right?
[14:26] <seb128> pitti, well, if you get a new delay it's due to that
[14:26] <pitti> right, understood
[14:26] <didrocks> pitti: let me check last change I've done
[14:26] <pitti> meh
[14:26] <pitti> still gconftool-2
[14:26] <didrocks> pitti: no, no bzr branch
[14:27] <pitti> looking at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/chrisccoulson/stock-noautostart.png, I suspect that the majority of the empty start region in mutter is due to that
[14:28] <seb128> pitti, "that"?
[14:28] <pitti> gconftool -R / | grep gnome-wm -> nothing
[14:28] <pitti> seb128: that == gnome-wm
[14:28] <seb128> well move /usr/bin/gnome-wm away to be sure
[14:30] <pitti> right, it hangs now
[14:30] <pitti> so something is trying to run gnome-wm
[14:31] <seb128> run gconftool -R /desktop/gnome/session?
[14:32] <pitti> windowmanager = mutter
[14:33] <seb128> pitti, and no .config/autostart?
[14:33] <pitti> no; it's a fresh install
[14:33] <pitti> didrocks: hm, it seems the u-n-d-s branch is out of date
[14:34] <seb128> pitti, how did you edit the gconf key?
[14:34] <pitti> didrocks: there's 0.7.2~ppa4, but lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings has 0.7.2 UNRELEASED
[14:34] <pitti> seb128: sudo vi /usr/share/gconf/une/mandatory/20_une-gconf-mandatory
[14:34] <pitti> seb128: and then run the postinst, to get update-gconf-defaults
[14:34] <seb128> pitti, did you run the update-gconf-defauls?
[14:34] <pitti> yep
[14:35] <didrocks> pitti: right, it's only on the ppa now, but the branch should be uptodate with the changes, let me check
[14:35] <seb128> ok, dunno then
[14:35] <pitti> didrocks: debian/20_une-gconf-mandatory doesn't have the gnome-wm windowmanager setting at all
[14:35] <didrocks> pitti: grrr, maybe forgot to push, one sec
[14:36] <didrocks> pitti: should be ok
[14:36] <didrocks> (now)
[14:37] <pitti> didrocks: ah, thanks
[14:37] <didrocks> sorry to have forgotten
[14:37] <pitti> ooh
[14:37] <pitti> /etc/xdg/gnome-session/components
[14:37] <pitti> -> windowmanager=gnome-wm
[14:38] <pitti> what is that, gconf through the backdoor?
[14:38] <pitti> it seems that this shadows gconf?
[14:38] <pitti> it's from gnome-session-bin
[14:41] <pitti> yay
[14:41] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thats because you're running my package
[14:41] <pitti> seb128: you are right wrt. the session phase, now everything else is half a second later than mutter
[14:41] <pitti> chrisccoulson: actually I downgraded; perhaps I forgot gnome-session-bin
[14:42] <pitti> ah, indeed
[14:42] <chrisccoulson> my gnome-session patch ignores the gconf values and uses the values in /etc/xdg/gnome-session/components instead
[14:42] <seb128> that explains
[14:42] <pitti> chrisccoulson: is that originally read from gconf then? I. e. I just forgot to run another postinst?
[14:43] <chrisccoulson> pitti - there's no gconf involved at all with my change. i manually created the file, and it's shipped with the package
[14:43] <pitti> ah, I see
[14:44] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so we'd need a trick for that for gnome (with gnome-wm) vs. netbook (with mutter hardcoded)
[14:44] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, if we went with this change, i'd need to figure out a way of specifying different required components for each session
[14:44] <chrisccoulson> perhaps using something like components-gnome or components-une
[14:44] <chrisccoulson> /s/or/and
[14:45] <pitti> chrisccoulson: we already have /etc/xdg/xdg-une
[14:45] <pitti> chrisccoulson: for /autostart and /menus
[14:45] <pitti> didrocks: I think we should get mutter into bzr then, too; objections?
[14:46] <didrocks> pitti: no objection
[14:48] <pitti> didrocks: mind doing another u-n-d-s upload to the PPA? seems I lost my privs for that
[14:48] <didrocks> pitti: no pb, all in trunk?
[14:48] <chrisccoulson> i'm wondering what value gconf-sanity-check-2 really adds
[14:48] <pitti> didrocks: just pushed
[14:48] <didrocks> seb128: how do you test totem-pl-parser, btw? (there is soname bump from 12 to … 17!!!)
[14:48] <chrisccoulson> that's like 200ms
[14:49] <seb128> didrocks, do the totem update and try to use the playlist
[14:50] <didrocks> seb128: ok fine. Can I push then the branch for just so you have a quick look (not sure of what I've done because of the soname bump)
[14:51] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-noautostart.png
[14:51] <pitti> check this out ^ :)
[14:51] <seb128> didrocks, sure
[14:51] <seb128> pitti, nice!
[14:52] <seb128> down to 5 seconds
[14:52] <pitti> well, no g-s-d, no nm-applet
[14:52] <pitti> but like that it's by and large a njpatel problem :)
[14:52] <seb128> right, it's missing quite a lot
[14:52] <pitti> yeah, it's pretty much the lower border of where we can get to
[14:53] <seb128> do you still get a background image?
[14:53] <seb128> I guess not
[14:53]  * pitti bzrifies mutter and commits the autostart phase change
[14:53] <pitti> seb128: no; no g-s-d :)
[14:53] <seb128> I was wondering if we would get the gdm one or nothing
[14:53] <seb128> I guess it's nothing...
[14:53] <pitti> there is no gdm
[14:53] <pitti> it's autostart
[14:53] <pitti> oh, hang on
[14:53] <pitti> I do have a bg image
[14:54] <pitti> weird
[14:54] <pitti> from nautilus?
[14:54] <seb128> nautilus should not to it if you don't tick the draw desktop option
[14:54] <seb128> and the nautilus busy bar doesn't show an activity matching a bg load
[14:54] <pitti> something in that bootchart must do it
[14:54] <seb128> ie it would almost be a 1 second job
[14:54] <njpatel> the plugin will grab the bg too, though through async read from disk
[14:54] <seb128> could it be mutter doing it?
[14:55] <pitti> njpatel: aah
[14:55] <pitti> njpatel: any particular reason? gnome-settings-daemon will already take care of it
[14:55] <njpatel> pitti, so, looking at that chart, the plugin would work nicer if it did everything in one go, right? No idles?
[14:56] <njpatel> pitti, we need to use it internally for some rendering, however I'm sure we can work around that or with the g-s-d window
[14:56] <pitti> njpatel: I guess some bits still need to go into idle, as soon as you do tray management (since the indicator bits just take ages to start
[14:57] <pitti> njpatel: alternatively we could tell g-s-d to not set a background in UNE (I guess that shouldn't be hard)
[14:57] <njpatel> pitti, tray management is already in idle (and would be as it uses X sync), indicators are currently in idle (the reading from disk), we'll see how that plays out
[14:57] <njpatel> pitti, no, we need it to at the moment -- let's do those types of tweaks nearer A3
[14:58] <pitti> njpatel: ack
[14:58] <njpatel> pitti, btw, new release of wncksync rolled with your branch + service file fix (thanks to DBO), didrcoks has been notified, so should land when he has some spare cycles
[14:58] <pitti> yay
[14:59] <njpatel> pitti, thanks again for your work, can't wait to have it running here :D
[14:59] <pitti> njpatel: I wonder where that went in the first place; can't see it on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-noautostart.png
[15:02] <njpatel> pitti, service file was broken so never got started?
[15:02] <njpatel> plugin won't assert on that, but won't have extra features
[15:03] <pitti> right, it's not running
[15:03] <pitti> the .service is there, though
[15:03] <njpatel> yep, but cat the service, the Exec path is broken
[15:04] <pitti> ah, heh
[15:05] <pitti> @LIBEXECDIR@ again
[15:05] <pitti> njpatel: right, that again was "the" other fix, right?
[15:06] <njpatel> yep
[15:14] <pitti> didrocks: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/mutter/ubuntu/
[15:14] <pitti> didrocks: I'll add Vcs-Bzr:, my change, and upload
[15:14] <didrocks> pitti: perfect ;)
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> pedro_ - i see we keep getting a lot of crashes like bug 512173 and various other crashes in gnome-screensaver-gl-helper recently
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> i think we should just reassign them all to the nvidia driver
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> all these reports are from users with the nvidia proprietary driver, and all the crashes happen inside of nvidia's libGL
[15:21] <pedro_> chrisccoulson, yeah seems to happen on libGL code
[15:21] <pedro_> right
[15:21] <seb128> we should try to get those automatically reassigned
[15:21] <seb128> or blocked to be sent
[15:21] <pitti> I recently added sth. for that
[15:22] <pitti> /usr/share/apport/general-hooks/generic.py
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i wonder how we can do that. they all seem to be slightlty different crashes, but all crash inside libGL
[15:22] <pitti> line 52 ff
[15:22] <pitti>     # filter out crashes on missing GLX (LP#327673)
[15:22] <pitti>     if '/usr/lib/libGL.so' in report.get('StacktraceTop', '\n').splitlines()[0] \
[15:22] <pitti>         and 'Loading extension GLX' not in apport.hookutils.read_file('/var/log/Xorg.0.log'):
[15:22] <pitti>             report['UnreportableReason'] = 'The X.org server does not support the GLX extension, which the crashed program expected to use.'
[15:22] <seb128> pitti fixing issues before having those reported as usual
[15:22] <pitti> but I don't know whether it catches your case
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i don't think it does
[15:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well, I would say crash is in libGL.so and nvidia is listed as driver
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> i think GLX is supported, but we seem to be getting lots of different crashes
[15:23] <pitti> chrisccoulson: sure, i added that for an entirely different bug; just saying that somethign like this could go into an apport hook
[15:23] <pitti> like "proprietary! bah! don't bug us!
[15:23] <seb128> what pitti wrote + driver = nvidia
[15:23] <seb128> rather than the xorg log
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> eg, bug 508531 is another different crash, but appears to happen in an atexit() handler registered by libGL
[15:24] <pitti> seb128: xorg log also gives you the driver (in fact, nothing else does reliably)
[15:24] <seb128> pitti, well we already have an apport key with the driver
[15:24] <pitti> true
[15:24] <pitti> much easier
[15:24] <seb128> it's easier to use that than do parsing again
[15:24] <seb128> right
[15:24] <pitti> apport speed is for next cycle, though! :-)
[15:24] <seb128> lol
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> pitti - can we just blacklist gnome-screensaver-gl-helper entirely in apport? it doesn't seem to do anything particularly important really, it crashes several times per day on my machine (nvidia), and i've never noticed anything go wrong with the screensaver
[15:26]  * pitti grabs the retroactive bug fixing time machine
[15:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: /etc/apport/blacklist.d/README.blacklist :)
[15:33] <seb128> didrocks, new totem btw
[15:33] <didrocks> seb128: 2.29.4?
[15:33] <seb128> yes
[15:34] <seb128> brb session restart
[15:36] <didrocks> seb128: totem seems to work well, and playlist doesn't go to hell (even, it seems to work) :)
[15:36] <didrocks> seb128: I'm just not quite confident about the soname bump, can you do a quick review, please?
[15:38] <didrocks> pushed at ~ubuntu-desktop/totem-pl-parser/ubuntu
[15:41]  * kenvandine grumbles about not getting joined automatically when restarting the irc proxy :/
[15:44] <pitti> seb128, chrisccoulson: wow, bg image loading in g-s-d takes some 80% of g-s-d's CPU time
[15:45] <rickspencer3> empathy calls for the win!
[15:45] <pitti> hey rickspencer3, good morning
[15:45] <pitti> empathy++
[15:45] <rickspencer3> hiya pitti
[15:45] <pitti> tseliot: with the new wacom driver now being in lucid, any chance that you can give that a try? perhaps also something for the sprint next week?
[15:45] <seb128> sounds + video working this week
[15:46] <tseliot> pitti: sure, I can try it. What about the sprint?
[15:47] <pitti> tseliot: oh, I was wondering whether you prefer doing that at the sprint; would be a good time to track down problems with wacom
[15:48] <tseliot> pitti: I don't know if I can carry it (as I'm travelling only with hand baggage) but I think I can test it here
[15:48] <pitti> tseliot: as long as it works, it's fine :)
[15:48] <tseliot> ok
[15:48] <pitti> tseliot: if not, please let me know, and I'll ask around for someone to bring one
[15:48] <tseliot> pitti: sure
[15:54] <seb128> asac, btw, I think to remember the nm-applet animation cpu use was discussed before, what happened to that?
[15:54] <asac> seb128: we wanted to go to a less animated icon ... basically waiting for a proposal from design team (either ours or redhat)
[15:55] <seb128> ok, so got stalled
[15:55] <seb128> asac, currently nm-applet takes cpu for over 1 second on login
[15:55] <seb128> though I'm not sure if that's the animation
[15:55] <seb128> or the menu building
[15:56] <seb128> I think pitti said it's not connecting to anything for him and he still get the cpu use
[15:56] <pitti> well, it gets stuck asking for my keyring password
[15:56] <pitti> it tries to autoconnect to my wpa2
[15:56] <pitti> and then needs the key
[15:56] <asac> seb128: we probably should look at that during sprint if we find time
[15:56] <asac> feels odd that just animation would consume so much
[15:57] <seb128> it might be the fancy menu building
[15:57] <seb128> though I've only one ap here
[15:57] <seb128> should take that much for one item
[16:02] <mclasen> seb128: it takes a whole lot of animation to keep a cpu busy for 1 second...
[16:03] <seb128> mclasen, the cpu there is an atom one so not so much but still quite a guess
[16:03] <seb128> mclasen, it takes almost 1 second to display the background image too on this box
[16:03] <mclasen> seb128: if it was a fullscreen animation, maybe...but 24x24 ?!
[16:04] <seb128> right, it's probably something else
[16:05] <seb128> I just asked because I know was discussed some time ago
[16:25] <rickspencer3> team meeting in 5 minutes
[16:26] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-01-26
[16:26] <rickspencer3> ^notice the correct year!
[16:26] <chrisccoulson> it's 2010 already?
[16:26] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[16:27] <jcastro> pitti: are there some design-type changes to apport-gtk's use of an icon in the tray for lucid? I notice it's not on the list of apps to port to app indicators
[16:27] <jcastro> pitti: whoops, I'll wait until after the meeting
[16:30] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryyce, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, pitti, Riddell, seb128, tkamppeter, tseliot - meeting time
[16:30] <ArneGoetje> hi
[16:30] <rickspencer3> I think I got everyone
[16:30] <tkamppeter> hi
[16:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, hey
[16:30] <pitti> re (just in time)
[16:30] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[16:30]  * kenvandine waves
[16:30] <Riddell> hello
[16:30]  * tseliot waves
[16:30] <rickspencer3> kewl
[16:30] <rickspencer3> so ...
[16:30] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-01-26
[16:30] <pitti> jcastro: I think it just didn't get to their attention yet
[16:30] <rickspencer3> let us rock
[16:30] <pitti> jcastro: it's disabled in stables, so not that important
[16:31] <tseliot> :-)
[16:31] <rickspencer3> hmmm, I forgot to do actions from last week
[16:31] <ccheney> hi
[16:31] <rickspencer3> so, I got lots of emails about conference attendance
[16:31] <rickspencer3> thanks for that
[16:31] <rickspencer3> also, a few folks have followed up with getting their objectives in
[16:31] <rickspencer3> please do this today if you haven't already
[16:32] <rickspencer3> we'll call those the "previous actions"
[16:32] <rickspencer3> partner update?
[16:32]  * rickspencer3 hands mic to kenvandine
[16:32] <kenvandine> yo
[16:33] <kenvandine> not much new to report on OLS
[16:33] <kenvandine> still chugging away on the rb plugin and music store
[16:33] <kenvandine> it is now kind of usable if you know the right magic ENV variable to set
[16:33] <bryyce> heya
[16:33] <rickspencer3> looks like they are expecting it to land for a3!
[16:33] <kenvandine> coming along nicely
[16:33] <rickspencer3> that's great news
[16:33] <kenvandine> yes
[16:33] <kenvandine> still can't download :)
[16:34] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, will it download in time for a3?
[16:34] <kenvandine> that is the plan
[16:34] <kenvandine> they have also been working on the new file sync client as well as adding gtk widgets for the contact picker
[16:34] <kenvandine> both i think should be ready for a3
[16:35] <kenvandine> DX is working on the MeMenu now
[16:35] <rickspencer3> that's quite a relief
[16:35] <kenvandine> plan is to have that working with gwibber by end of sprint
[16:35] <rickspencer3> good
[16:35] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, new gwibber UI is looking good
[16:35] <kenvandine> that's if for partner update
[16:35] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, thx
[16:35] <rickspencer3> and gwibber service has not crashed or hung for me
[16:35] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i fixed the facebook bug :)
[16:36] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, also note the memory usage
[16:36] <kenvandine> is way down
[16:36] <rickspencer3> I am very very happy to see this feature set moving along
[16:36] <kenvandine> the daemon is using 27M for me right now, after running for 4 hours
[16:36] <kenvandine> :)
[16:36] <rickspencer3> let's jfdi next week
[16:36] <kenvandine> 6M of which is python-indicate :/
[16:36]  * rickspencer3 will lock kenvandine and tedg into a room until it is done
[16:36] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:36] <kenvandine> i'll get him to rename indicators :)
[16:37] <kenvandine> anyway, /me passes mic back
[16:37] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, are you and didrocks working together on weekly releases?
[16:37]  * rickspencer3 asks blatantly leading question
[16:37] <kenvandine> not as well as we should, but we will more this week :)
[16:37] <kenvandine> my fault
[16:37] <didrocks> rickspencer3: not yet, let's wait for next release on Thursday, I guess :)
[16:37] <kenvandine> :)
[16:37] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:37] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[16:37] <kenvandine> didrocks, sorry... i was very distracted by sfts :)
[16:37] <rickspencer3> again, good progress
[16:37] <didrocks> kenvandine: no pb ;)
[16:38] <rickspencer3> next Riddell Kubuntu update?
[16:38] <Riddell> Kubuntu:
[16:38] <Riddell> - 4.3.95 now in
[16:38] <Riddell> - 4.3.5 going into backports today
[16:38] <Riddell> - New SIP and python-qt4 building now
[16:38] <Riddell> - MIRs now in for KOffice: plotutils, opengtl, libspnav, getfem++, pstoedit, libqtgtl
[16:38] <Riddell> which should keep our MIR team busy
[16:39] <pitti> \o/
[16:39] <rickspencer3> Riddell, thanks
[16:39]  * pitti opens a task to fan out unassigned MIRs
[16:39] <rickspencer3> next?
[16:40] <rickspencer3> ccheney, Mozilla update?
[16:40] <rickspencer3> hmmmm
[16:41] <rickspencer3> bryyce, xorg?
[16:41] <ccheney> libsoup is still causing me much grief, i thought i had it almost finished then noticed it was miscompiling due to duplicate symbol use in the source files i had copied from, split them up to make it work cleanly, then noticed it failed to build due to collisions with the real glib
[16:41] <ccheney> working with asac on determining a way to get around that problem
[16:41] <ccheney> just ran into those two issues yesterday
[16:41] <ccheney> OOo is blocked on doko who appears to be on vacation
[16:42] <rickspencer3> so *still* not done libsoup?
[16:42] <ccheney> he fixed a few arm issues and then from what it appears forgot to commit them anywhere or email them to me
[16:42] <rickspencer3> this has been dangling quite a while
[16:42] <ccheney> rickspencer3: yes, it is turning out to be much more involved than i had originally thought
[16:43] <ccheney> we started out with just copying the bits needed into a single source file, but that only worked to about 90% of the way
[16:43] <ccheney> after that copying the bits needed for the last 10% caused problems with symbol collision so had to recreate them into separate source files, which turned out to still not be enough
[16:43] <rickspencer3> ccheney, perhaps someone else can provide some assistance with getting the other 90% there?
[16:44] <ccheney> yes, hopefully so
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:44] <rickspencer3> moving on
[16:44] <rickspencer3> bryyce, ?
[16:44] <rickspencer3> xorg?
[16:44] <bryyce> - Finally have a shiny new udev-enabled wacom driver, which I think marks the end of our HAL needs
[16:44] <bryyce> - Still planning to do -intel 2.10 but blocked by a bug.  Fallback plan is to stay on 2.9.
[16:44] <bryyce> - Still working on getting wayland built; lots of little dependency issues to work through.  Hoping to have it packaged by the sprint.
[16:44] <bryyce> - This past week updated apport hooks and failsafe stuff
[16:44] <ccheney> the main issue i am having now is with symbols that are provided in gio.h that get included in places but also need to be in the parts i am copying over, not sure if it is safe to just include gio.h everywhere
[16:44]  * ccheney shuts up for now :)(
[16:45] <pitti> oh, do we need wayland for anything, or is it just to have the platform for playing around with?
[16:45] <pitti> bryyce: I asked tseliot to test wacom; knocking on wood! :-)
[16:46]  * tseliot nods
[16:46] <bryyce> - Planning a few more driver package updates (-ati, -nouveau, -intel, etc.) but otherwise most of the packaging work for X is in place now
[16:46] <bryyce> pitti, just for playing with
[16:46] <pitti> any new word from kernel about nouveao?
[16:46] <pitti> nouveau
[16:46] <bryyce> I think I got asked about it every day at UDS, so figure it's good to have available
[16:46] <rickspencer3> new-voh
[16:47] <davmor2> pitti: jockey is doing it's trick of only showing binary hw in live cd and not on the installed system again
[16:47] <bryyce> yes, I got a new nouveau-enabled kernel from apw yesterday
[16:47] <bryyce> haven't had a chance to test it out myself but it's also on my todo list for this week
[16:47] <rickspencer3> bryyce, so is it a "go"? regarding new-voh
[16:47] <rickspencer3> ?
[16:47] <bryyce> we will be evaluating our situation with nouveau next week, and establishing our plans going forward
[16:47] <pitti> bryyce: sounds like a good thing for the lucid sprint todo (having lots of hw)
[16:47] <pitti> a modified live usb stick should be great
[16:48] <tseliot> rickspencer3: are you asking questions in rhyme?
[16:48] <tseliot> :-P
[16:48] <rickspencer3> bryyce, is there a single person who considered themselves on the hook for this project?
[16:48] <pitti> davmor2: apt-get update?
[16:48] <bryyce> pitti, maybe but I've found 90+% of the distro team has -intel hardware ;-)
[16:48]  * rickspencer3 is a bit concerned that diffuse responsibility may lead to sub-optimal results and/or lots of extra work
[16:48] <pitti> davmor2: (but yes, known issue)
[16:49] <pitti> bryyce: we'll find some hotel computers :)
[16:49] <bryyce> pitti, fortunately I've got several nvidia cards so probably have more hardware myself than would be at the sprint ;-)
[16:49] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:49] <rickspencer3> moving on?
[16:49] <rickspencer3> pitti, any words regarding release status?
[16:50] <bjf> bryyce, I have nVidia in all my HW, I can help test, was working with apw
[16:50] <bryyce> bjf
[16:50] <bryyce> bjf, ok
[16:50] <pitti> so, I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus last week
[16:50] <pitti> primarily for fishing out the lucid-targetted bugs which are "our's"
[16:50] <pitti> executive summary, nothing that's concerning yet at this stage of the release
[16:51] <rickspencer3> I see that the focus on start time has added quite a few work items
[16:51] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-3.html gets a bit over the trend, though
[16:51] <rickspencer3> that's good to see
[16:51] <pitti> some is my fault, since I keep adding startup speed TODO items
[16:51] <rickspencer3> shows concerted effort and good planning
[16:51] <pitti> but fortunately 80% of them are done already
[16:51] <pitti> but many specs look a bit stalled
[16:51] <rickspencer3> we are actually below the trend line if you don't include "foreign" items
[16:51] <rickspencer3> pitti, which specs concern you?
[16:52] <pitti> rickspencer3: not really; if you start the trend line at the "our's", we're over as well
[16:52] <pitti> rickspencer3: none in particular, just the sum :)
[16:52] <rickspencer3> oh, right
[16:52] <rickspencer3> :/
[16:52] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:52]  * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
[16:52] <pitti> I have some questions for particular specs, but no need to do them in the meeting
[16:53] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:53] <pitti> just as a teaser
[16:53] <pitti> check out http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100126-noautostart.png
[16:53] <pitti> it's UNE stripped to the bare minimum
[16:53] <rickspencer3> and it's at 17+?
[16:53] <seb128> note that there is a 5 seconds extra time to boot due to a bug there
[16:53] <pitti> 4.2 seconds for desktop
[16:54] <seb128> pitti, 4.8 rather
[16:54] <pitti> that chart, with kernel 2.6.32-9 would be 12.37 seconds
[16:54] <seb128> pitti, we should count from gdm not from the vertical session start
[16:54] <pitti> seb128: ok
[16:54] <rickspencer3> so we are currently 2.37 over?
[16:54] <rickspencer3> in total?
[16:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, when we don't run g-s-d
[16:54] <pitti> rickspencer3: well, wait
[16:54] <pitti> this is missing half of the stuff
[16:54] <seb128> ie no theme, no font, no mixer, no bluetooth
[16:54] <pitti> I just wanted to say, something like this is the goal
[16:55] <pitti> and no network-manager applet either :)
[16:55] <rickspencer3> alright
[16:55] <pitti> we still expect some great speedups in mutter plugin
[16:55] <pitti> which we can then trade for the stuff that needs to be put back (settings-daemon, nm-applet, etc.)
[16:55] <pitti> 4 seconds will be damn hard
[16:55] <rickspencer3> mmm
[16:55] <pitti> but 5 to 6 seems doable
[16:55] <seb128> the platform part is still not on target there
[16:56] <rickspencer3> it may be hard, but it doesn't mean it's not worth doing
[16:56] <pitti> right; ignore everything before gdm
[16:56] <seb128> they might still win 1 or 2 seconds too
[16:56] <pitti> -10 and -11 kernels regressed a lot, too
[16:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, worth doing... yeah, but at which cost?
[16:56] <rickspencer3> they'll get that back
[16:56] <ccheney> i saw at some point kernel boot time doubled
[16:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: that was -10
[16:56] <rickspencer3> the kernel team will take care of the kernel
[16:57] <ccheney> pitti: ok
[16:57] <rickspencer3> we have our own house to worry about
[16:57] <pitti> and -11 introduced some weird 5 second latency in usb_id/khubd
[16:57] <pitti> ok, I'm done; just wanted to give an overview where we are
[16:57] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100125-oldkernel.png is a pretty realistic one
[16:57] <pitti> you can substract some 0.8 seconds from that for today's optimizations
[16:57] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[16:57] <rickspencer3> yeah!
[16:58] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:58] <rickspencer3> seb128, asks "at what cost?"
[16:58] <rickspencer3> well, we are committed to a course of action ... and we must meet that commitment
[16:58] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[16:58] <seb128> sprint?
[16:58] <rickspencer3> (well, technically, we are committed to a result, not an action, but still ...)
[16:58] <seb128> do we have to prepare anything for it?
[16:58] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[16:59] <rickspencer3> did everyone see pitti's email regarding sprint planning?
[16:59] <rickspencer3> get items on the list
[16:59] <seb128> I did
[16:59] <seb128> ok
[16:59] <rickspencer3> I feel that we have gotten quite good at working efficiently at the sprints
[16:59] <rickspencer3> are there any specific questions or concerns about the sprint?
[17:00] <pitti> bryyce: settled the Karaoke night?
[17:00] <bryyce> pitti, yup
[17:00] <pitti> \o/
[17:00] <kenvandine> woot
[17:00] <kenvandine> :)
[17:00] <pitti> SFTS IRL!
[17:00] <kenvandine> :)
[17:00] <Tm_T> pitti: what's the time with Karmic in same hardware?
[17:01] <pitti> Tm_T: unsure; I only have had that machine for a week, no karmic on it
[17:01] <pitti> Tm_T: but desktop part with GNOME was 14 s
[17:01] <pitti> I think we just about halved that by now
[17:01] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:01] <Tm_T> pitti: roger
[17:01] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/BootPerformance/Lucid/Desktop
[17:01] <pitti> it has a karmic chart
[17:02] <seb128> note that current charts are une
[17:02] <rickspencer3> ok, call it a wrap?
[17:02] <seb128> and that one is desktop
[17:02] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes
[17:02]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:02] <rickspencer3> thanks all!
[17:02] <pitti> thanks everyone, see you next week!
[17:02]  * kenvandine goes back to sfts
[17:02] <kenvandine> :)
[17:03] <ccheney> seb128: so 10s target is only for une not desktop?
[17:03] <didrocks> thanks :)
[17:03] <bryyce> thanks
[17:03] <pitti> crimsun: ah, so it seems that start-pulseaudio-x11 doesn't just launch (again) the daemon, but also loads three modules through pactl; do you think it would be evil to just add those three modules to /etc/pulse/default.pa instead and thus save the entire thing?
[17:04] <pitti> ccheney: yes, it got changed; with gnome (nautilus/compiz) it's just about impossible
[17:04] <pitti> crimsun: I'll do a chart comparison
[17:04] <ccheney> pitti: ok
[17:06] <davmor2> pitti: just to confirm update fixed jockey
[17:07] <pitti> davmor2: thanks; it's a long-standing design problem in how the CD is installed (i. e. you don't have pacakge info right after install)
[17:07] <jcastro> pitti: oh I didn't know it was off by default in stable releases, that takes care of things then, thanks for the info
[17:07] <kwwii> seb128, anyone: is it possible to turn off the tooltips for metacity?
[17:08] <seb128> dunno
[17:08] <seb128> I guess everything is possible it's only code
[17:09] <kwwii> seb128: I thought there might be a switch somewhere to turn them off
[17:09] <seb128> it might but I've no clue
[17:09] <kwwii> ok, thanks ;)
[17:09] <seb128> I've not been touching that one or using for years
[17:59] <hyperair> pitti: i'd like to submit a patch to devicekit-power from debian. am i allowed to use (LP: ) tags?
[18:03] <hyperair> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363354/
[18:18] <chrisccoulson> hey hyperair - how are you getting on with that suspend issue? (sorry, i've not watched all my bug mail yet today)
[18:18] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363354/
[18:18] <chrisccoulson> that fixes it?
[18:18] <hyperair> part of it
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> cool
[18:19] <hyperair> the console_kit fix i still have to submit upstream
[18:19] <hyperair> to gpm
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> i'm just working on a separate gpm change at the moment
[18:19] <hyperair> np
[18:19] <hyperair> i see
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> to make suspend inhibit work again
[18:19] <hyperair> ah in that case you'll be making another upload, right?
[18:19] <hyperair> i'll give you the patch separately
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> i'll probably commit it to upstream git first
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> (once hughsie has reviewed it)
[18:20] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363365/ right
[19:03] <dpm> tedg, is the "Getting your application in the panel" session yours?
[19:03] <tedg> dpm: Yes
[19:03] <dpm> tedg, ah, sorted, thanks :)
[19:09] <pitti> hyperair: sure, they are valid in debian changelogs, too
[19:09] <hyperair> pitti: well, some debian developers might get annoyed.
[19:09] <pitti> hyperair: *shrug* having references to bugs is a good thing
[19:09] <hyperair> pitti: i agree.
[19:09] <pitti> regardless of whether it's in the debian BTS, launchpad, gnome or fd.o bugzilla or some trac
[19:10] <pitti> hyperair: besides, I know one of Debian's dk-p maintainers pretty well, and the other very very well :-P
[19:10] <hyperair> pitti: anyway, the patch is included in http://bugs.debian.org/567021, and the paste i gave you.
[19:10] <hyperair> pitti: that's great :-)
[19:11] <pitti> hyperair: ah, nice, thanks!
[19:11] <pitti> I'll commit it in a bit
[19:13] <hyperair> pitti: thanks. =)
[19:14] <hyperair> pitti: it'd be nice if we can get that uploaded and synced soon, as it blocks the SRU (unless we can make an exception to the rule where ubuntu+1 must have the bug fixed first)
[19:14] <pitti> hyperair: don't  block on lucid for that, please just get it uploaded
[19:14] <pitti> hyperair: it ought to be in lucid before it goes to -updates
[19:14] <hyperair> pitti: okay.
[19:14] <hyperair> okay then
[19:27] <bjf> bryyce, Are you interested in any additional nouveou testing at this time?
[19:28] <bjf> s/nouveou/nouveau/
[19:29] <pitti> hyperair: I committed the patch; mbiebl wants to test it with a related problem, I'll upload it tomorrow or later tonight
[19:29] <hyperair> pitti: sure.
[19:29] <hyperair> pitti: out of curiosity, what related problem would this be?
[19:30] <pitti> hyperair: some double-suspend related to uswsusp, related to console switching
[19:30] <pitti> but I didn't read the details
[19:30] <hyperair> pitti: ah i see. okay.
[19:30] <pitti> hyperair: are both of your gpm patches in upstream trunk now?
[19:31] <hyperair> no.
[19:31] <hyperair> pitti: i'm waiting for hughsie to reappear
[19:31] <pitti> oh, ok
[19:31] <hyperair> pitti: er there's only one patch, by the way.
[19:31] <hyperair> for gpm that is
[19:31] <pitti> hyperair: the other is already upstream, isn't it? I saw the commit fly by
[19:32] <hyperair> ah right.
[19:32] <hyperair> yes
[19:32] <pitti> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=604362
[19:32] <hyperair> pitti: two commits.
[19:32] <hyperair> the first one was a hack
[19:32] <hyperair> the second one was a more proper fix
[19:32] <hyperair> but the second one needs the dkp patch.
[19:32] <pitti> right
[19:32] <hyperair> there's a third one, which needs to fix a console kit issue.
[19:33] <hyperair> ah yes.
[19:33] <hyperair> console switching
[19:33] <pitti> hyperair: where's the third one?
[19:33] <hyperair> pitti: waiting for hughsie to reappear.
[19:33] <pitti> hyperair: ah, so there's no patch yet? mbiebl wanted to test it
[19:34] <hyperair> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/363401/
[19:34] <hyperair> pitti: is he on irc somewhere? perhaps i should join the discussion
[19:34] <pitti> hyperair: mbiebl on freenode
[19:34] <pitti> hyperair: #udev
[19:39] <pitti> good night everyone
[19:41] <bryyce> bjf, not yet; I am testing on my own hardware presently.  I'm planning on having a test recipe drawn up within a day or two for others to follow.
[19:47] <bjf> bryyce, cool, exactly what I was hoping for
[20:08] <didrocks> seb128: hum, as wncksync is now in main, I have no more upload right. Can you please take lp:~didrocks/wncksync/packaging, push it to lp:ubuntu/wncksync and upload it for me, please?
[20:25] <didrocks> well, let's do gcalctool update just for having fun before going to bed :)
[20:42] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[21:00] <bryyce> rickspencer3, http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzkyNg
[21:03] <didrocks> bryyce: some people are really quick :)
[22:08] <seb128_> re
[22:13] <chrisccoulson> bah, maybe i hate gobject after all
[22:13] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128_
[22:13] <seb128_> lol
[22:13] <seb128_> hey robert_ancell, you did it!
[22:13] <seb128_> hey chrisccoulson
[22:13] <seb128_> chrisccoulson, how are you? out of hating gobject?
[22:13] <robert_ancell> seb128_, had to know the secret handshake
[22:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128_ - yeah, good thanks
[22:14] <chrisccoulson> and you?
[22:14] <seb128_> good too
[22:14] <seb128_> out of firefox refusing to start
[22:15] <seb128_> well not really true, it does after running it in -safe-mode once
[22:15] <seb128_> and it does run only once, after than it returns when ran
[22:15] <chrisccoulson> when did that break? i've not tried running it on lucid tonight
[22:16] <seb128_> 15 minutes ago
[22:16] <seb128_> I didn't upgrade my laptop before today though
[22:16] <seb128_> that's the firefox 3.5 to 3.6 upgrade
[22:16] <seb128_> and asac is hiding from this channel apparently now ;-)
[22:16] <chrisccoulson> heh
[22:19] <rickspencer3> hmm
[22:19] <seb128_> so session start takes 4.5 seconds on my laptop now
[22:19] <rickspencer3> I did a dist-upgrade today, and firefox 3.6 seems to be running quite well
[22:19] <rickspencer3> seb128_, wow!
[22:19] <seb128_> rickspencer3, lucky you
[22:19] <seb128_> rickspencer3, "laptop", ie my dell d630, not the mini
[22:19] <rickspencer3> ah
[22:19] <seb128_> shame the boot target doesn't have a decent cpu
[22:19] <seb128_> that laptop is 2.5 years old
[22:19] <rickspencer3> yup
[22:20] <seb128_> and it does so much better than an atom
[22:20] <seb128_> and that's an hdd
[22:20] <seb128_> not a ssd
[22:20] <seb128_> chrisccoulson, so xrandr is what was delay g-s-d by 2 seconds
[22:20] <seb128_> deleting the monitor.xml didn't drop that
[22:20] <seb128_> I had to disable the gconf key for xrandr
[22:21] <chrisccoulson> seb128_ - 2 seconds is a long time
[22:21] <seb128_> it is
[22:21] <chrisccoulson> is this with an external monitor?
[22:21] <seb128_> pitti has a similar delay on his d430
[22:21] <seb128_> no
[22:21] <seb128_> dock station or standalone doesn't make a difference
[22:21] <seb128_> xorg seems to be busy during this time
[22:22] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i suspect the delay is the call to XRRGetScreenResources
[22:26] <seb128_> is that needed to get the magic xrandr key working?
[22:26] <seb128_> could we do that the first time it's used?
[22:26] <seb128_> 2 seconds is quite some delay but it would probably be ok
[22:26] <seb128_> I mean you do it, think for a second and it's acting
[22:26] <bryyce> I thought the kernel was supposed to be caching that now?
[22:26] <RAOF> Doesn't the xrandr plugin also handle the per-user resolution settings?
[22:27] <seb128_> bryyce, hey
[22:27] <seb128_> bryyce, caching between boots?
[22:27] <bryyce> maybe it only caches the EDID and xrandr needs additional info
[22:28] <bryyce> seb128_, yeah I thought so.  that was one of the first moblin patches we flagged as interesting.  pretty sure it's in the kernel.
[22:28] <bryyce> I don't actually know offhand what all XRRGetScreenResources pulls
[22:28] <seb128_> bryyce, do you know if anything is suposed to probe screen settings on resume too?
[22:28] <RAOF> There's certainly a patch which caches the EDID for lvds in the kernel.
[22:28] <seb128_> bryyce, I often have the issue "suspend while docked and open you laptop later while not"
[22:29] <seb128_> bryyce, which gives a "no screen on"
[22:29]  * chrisccoulson needs to start looking around in the gnome-desktop source again
[22:29] <seb128_> I've to type my password and do the xrand magic key without scrfeen
[22:29] <seb128_> screen
[22:29] <seb128_> then g-s-d crashes
[22:29] <seb128_> but I get a screen back
[22:29] <bryyce> seb128_, yeah I don't think there's a trigger sent when resuming that could make it re-probe
[22:29] <seb128_> do you should there should be one?
[22:29] <seb128_> do you *think*
[22:30] <seb128_> I'm not sure if that's something xorg should be handling
[22:30] <seb128_> or g-s-d
[22:30] <seb128_> or...
[22:30] <bryyce> yeah, although I would worry it could cause side effects depending on how it was implemented
[22:30] <bryyce> well one thing I know of
[22:31] <bryyce> X upstream is working on making monitor plugging/unplugging send events
[22:31] <bryyce> we won't have that for lucid though; maybe MM for -intel at least
[22:31] <bryyce> with that in place it should make a lot of this stuff much easier
[22:32] <bryyce> (famous last words I know)
[22:32] <seb128_> yeah, I've read federico mentioning autoactivating new monitors when they are plugged
[22:32] <seb128_> or at least triggering an event which opens a dialog asking if you want to do that
[22:32] <bryyce> anyway, I think that if the kernel can emit a 'resume' signal of some sort, then having g-s-d listen and act on that would give us the best results currently
[22:33] <seb128_> ok thanks
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> bryyce - so, xorg does not actually send a RRScreenChangeNotify when you hotplug a monitor right now?
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> because g-s-d already listens for that
[22:35] <RAOF> I'm fairly sure that nouveau sends that; my nvidia laptop sets up the external display when I plug it in.
[22:36] <seb128_> I need to try that later
[22:36] <seb128_> the issue there is on resume though
[22:36] <rickspencer3> desktoppers ...
[22:36] <bryyce> it's a new kms-dependent thing, so maybe it's there for -nouveau since they've done a lot of kms work
[22:36] <rickspencer3> well, this whole rickspencer3 sold Ubuntu to Yahoo! thing is taking a bit of my time ;)
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> seb128_ - the easiest way there is to run gsd through xtrace and see if you can see the event
[22:37] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, said it was ok to postpone the Eastern Edition to tomorrow so I can answer a few questions and such
[22:37] <seb128_> rickspencer3, no real action on mailing lists for now
[22:37] <chrisccoulson> although, when i get my new laptop and monitor, i can do some debugging on these gsd crashes anyway
[22:37] <seb128_> rickspencer3, is there any other media to watch there? ;-)
[22:37] <rickspencer3> seb128_, identica, blogs, etc...
[22:38] <rickspencer3> plus some questions directly on IRC
[22:38] <seb128_> things I usually do in firefox
[22:38] <seb128_> when it starts!
[22:38] <rickspencer3> lol
[22:38] <seb128_> where is asac? ;-)
[22:38] <rickspencer3> seb128_, so firefox is just busted for you?
[22:38] <seb128_> yes
[22:38] <seb128_> it exit as soon as started without error
[22:38] <seb128_> seems pitti had the same issue today
[22:39] <rickspencer3> huh
[22:39] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I can't reply with Gwibber!!
[22:39] <rickspencer3> baaaaad timing
[22:39]  * rickspencer3 is glad that firefox is working 
[22:43] <jcastro> you fell for the trap where ken asks you to test gwibber and you're stuck with a broken window for months. :p
[22:43] <asac> seb128_: here i am ... guess until tomorrow when i get a new IP :-P
[22:43] <seb128_> hey asac!
[22:44] <asac> seb128_: i think we need an strace -f -eopen firefox for the run after -safe-mode ... and the second run (that fails)
[22:45] <seb128_> asac, that shows not difference
[22:45] <seb128_> open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)      = 3
[22:45] <seb128_> open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY) = 3
[22:45] <seb128_> open("/usr/lib/firefox-3.6/firefox", O_RDONLY) = 3
[22:45] <seb128_> then 3 SIGCHLD
[22:46] <asac> seb128_: that means you have a firefox window open
[22:46] <asac> otherwise that would be really long
[22:46] <asac> at least the run that work should be really much output
[22:46] <seb128_> $ ps ax | grep firefox
[22:46] <seb128_>  4036 pts/0    S+     0:00 grep firefox
[22:46] <seb128_> $
[22:47] <asac> ok ... then get me a strace -f -eopen firefox -safe-mode .... the same for the run after that (that works)
[22:47] <seb128_> firefox -no-remote does the same
[22:51] <seb128_> asac, ok
[22:51] <seb128_> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/debug1
[22:51] <seb128_> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/debug2
[22:51] <seb128_> debug 1 is the first run with -safe-mode
[22:51] <seb128_> debug2 is the working one without -safe-mode
[22:53] <asac> seb128_: and the third one is as short as the one you pasted here?
[22:54] <asac> can you get the full strace (without -eopen) for that sitaution?
[22:54] <seb128_> ups
[22:54] <seb128_> I forgot the -f the first time
[22:55] <seb128_> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/debug3
[22:56] <asac> seb128_: heh. ok
[22:56] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I got simple scan in my dist-upgrade today
[22:56] <rickspencer3> niiiiccceeee
[22:56] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, sweet :)
[22:56] <robert_ancell> pitti keeps doing the paperwork for me
[22:56] <seb128_> asac, debug3 is the failing one
[22:56] <asac> ack
[22:56] <bryyce> rickspencer3, "...would certainly want to do anything to damage this relationship."  Think you need a 'not' in there ;-)
[22:57]  * Nafai wonders if he should upgrade to Lucid before next week
[22:58] <seb128_> asac, ok I fixed it
[22:58] <seb128_> asac, sudo apt-get remove xul-ext-greasemonkey
[22:59] <fagan> sweet since when does apport pick up on dup bugs and stop the report?
[22:59] <TheMuso> robert_ancell:Lucky you. The paperwork can be a pain at times. :p
[22:59] <seb128_> asac, I did remove greasemonkey before
[22:59] <seb128_> asac, which apparently was not the right one
[22:59] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, true!
[22:59] <seb128_> asac, bug is back after reinstalling it
[23:01] <asac> seb128_: your debug3 suspiciously ends after opening prefs.js
[23:01] <asac> backup your profile ...
[23:01] <rickspencer3> bryyce, ah
[23:01] <asac> remove that file
[23:01] <rickspencer3> oops
[23:01] <seb128_> asac, did you read what I just wrote?
[23:02] <rickspencer3> Nafai yes, upgrade
[23:02] <rickspencer3> it's easy and Lucid is quite solid
[23:02] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:02] <asac> seb128_: yes. its kinda expected. uninstalling installing stuff (or firefox itself) is kind of similar to starting firefox after -safe-mode
[23:02] <rickspencer3> just don't try to browse the web apparantly
[23:02] <seb128_> asac, moving prof.js makes no difference
[23:02] <Nafai> rickspencer3: heh, I've heard about the Firefox breakage, but I use Chromium anyway.
[23:02] <Nafai> Just need to check that the PPAs I use have lucid
[23:03] <seb128_> asac, well I started it several times
[23:03] <seb128_> asac, after safe-mode it works only once
[23:03] <asac> yes
[23:03] <seb128_> without xul-ext-greasemonkey it works several times in a row
[23:04] <seb128_> asac, any prefs.js or not = no difference
[23:04] <asac> seb128_: it works several times, but then stops working at some point?
[23:04] <seb128_> no
[23:04] <seb128_> it works without xul-ext-greasemonkey
[23:04] <asac> ok ... so its grease
[23:04] <asac> yeah
[23:04] <asac> got that now
[23:04] <seb128_> it breaks as soon as I reinstall it
[23:04]  * asac slow at 0 am
[23:04] <seb128_> or rather on second run
[23:05] <asac> yes, so greasemonkey is the intruder
[23:05] <seb128_> asac, sorry, we can debug that tomorrow if you want
[23:05] <seb128_> do you have xul-ext-greasemonkey installed?
[23:05] <seb128_> does it break with it for you?
[23:05] <asac> not sure. i assume pitti - who had a simliar issue - also had grasemonkey
[23:05] <seb128_> likely
[23:05] <seb128_> it's sort of required to triage bugs
[23:05] <asac> i dont think so. i think i have the .xpi
[23:05] <seb128_> if you use the web ui
[23:05] <asac> if at all
[23:05] <asac> let me check
[23:05] <asac> i know the importance of that extension ;)
[23:06] <asac> seb128_: what version is the current greaesmonkey in lucid?
[23:06] <seb128_> asac, 0.8.20091209.4-1ubuntu1
[23:06] <asac> !info xul-ext-greasemonkey lucid
[23:07] <asac> ok the .xpi doesnt break it for me
[23:07] <asac> let me pull the package
[23:15] <seb128_> asac, do you get the issue too?
[23:15] <asac> yes
[23:15] <asac> i will ask bdrung to check on that ;)
[23:15] <asac> at least to do a bit of poking
[23:15] <asac> seb128_: for now install the .xpi ;)
[23:15] <asac> that seems to work well
[23:15] <asac> https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/748
[23:16] <seb128_> ok thanks
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> yay, suspend inhibiting works again :)
[23:25] <seb128_> chrisccoulson, oh, nice, what did you change?
[23:25] <chrisccoulson> seb128_ - i've just written a gpm patch to reimplement the missing functionality
[23:26] <seb128_> oh, nice
[23:27] <fagan> actually I have a little gpm problem in lucid
[23:27] <crimsun> pitti: there is a rather stern warning in default.pa that says that X11 modules shouldn't be loaded from default.pa.
[23:28] <crimsun> ah shucks
[23:28] <fagan> its not showing battery settings
[23:49] <chrisccoulson> fagan - "not showing battery settings"? what do you mean by this?
[23:56] <fagan> chrisccoulson: it shows ac power setting and general settings but not battery power settings
[23:57] <seb128_> fagan, what is energy-rate in devkit-power --dump log?
[23:58] <fagan> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/363534/
[23:59] <seb128_> ok, that's buggy
[23:59] <seb128_> so it's not a gpm issue
[23:59] <seb128_> either dkpower or linux
[23:59] <fagan> ah ok
[23:59] <seb128_> you should have a battery section there