[00:45] <Pendulum> hiya
[03:08] <cjohnston> howdy
[03:09] <Pendulum> cjohnston: how was your ubuntu hour?
[03:10] <pleia2> cjohnston: how do you like writing meeting minutes? :)
[03:10] <cjohnston>  with a keyboard
[03:11] <Pendulum> pleia2: you're good
[03:11] <pleia2> oh, right
[03:11] <pleia2> you should get a keyboard again
[03:11] <pleia2> hehe
[03:11] <cjohnston> ummm
[03:11] <cjohnston> dont get started with me about keyboards
[03:11] <pleia2> :)
[03:11]  * cjohnston is not hapy
[03:11] <cjohnston> happy
[03:11]  * Pendulum hugs cjohnston 
[03:11] <pleia2> ok, well, in general when you have a working keyboard, is writing meeting minutes something you might be willing to do?
[03:12] <cjohnston> i guess
[03:12] <pleia2> I am terrible at getting them done and they're important
[03:12] <cjohnston> is this for meetings im at or not at?
[03:12] <cjohnston> im guessing not at
[03:12] <pleia2> well I was mostly thinking of for Ubuntu Learning
[03:12] <pleia2> so hopefully one you are at :)
[03:12] <cjohnston> oh
[03:12] <cjohnston> sure
[03:12] <cjohnston> i guess
[03:13] <cjohnston> we ahve a meeting?
[03:13] <pleia2> I am just sitting down to write them for a recent (almost 2 weeks ago, gah!) meeting in #ubuntu-us
[03:13] <pleia2> we don't have one scheduled at the moment, but we do have them
[03:13] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
[03:14] <cjohnston> i cant believe logitech brokered my keyboard even worse, and they wont send me a new one till they get mine
[03:14] <pleia2> yeah :(
[03:15] <cjohnston> nothin on the agenda
[03:16] <pleia2> yeah, we don't have another planned yet
[03:16] <cjohnston> k
[03:16] <pleia2> and still loads of todo things from the last meeting
[03:16] <pleia2> I was just thinking for reference in the future ;)
[03:16] <cjohnston> i see
[03:16] <cjohnston> double my pay?
[03:17] <cjohnston> ;-)
[03:18] <pleia2> sure!
[03:27] <cjohnston> stupid free dell keyboard
[03:29] <cjohnston> what else pleia2
[03:37] <pleia2> cjohnston: how interested are you in getting involved in course development with the learning team?
[03:37] <pleia2> we have about a hundred million tasks here
[03:37] <cjohnston> i dont know that im completely ready for that.. i have looked at it a couple times tho
[03:38] <pleia2> I'm thinking we want to try and convert some of our User Days classes
[03:38] <pleia2> see how that goes, if it actually works :)
[03:49] <cjohnston> pleia2: on learning... what topics are done/being worked on?
[03:49] <cjohnston> im a little confused
[03:50] <pleia2> I should really write this all down somewhere, but here goes
[03:50] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning is our main page
[03:50] <cjohnston> lol
[03:50] <pleia2> scroll down to the bottom you'll see 5 big buttons
[03:50] <pleia2> those are our 5 focus areas
[03:51] <pleia2> so click on, say, "how to maintain ubuntu" and it takes you to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
[03:51] <cjohnston> now i see some that say done
[03:51] <pleia2> you will see some things that say "Done" next to them, if you click on the links it'll take you tosome completed courses (posted on doctormo's blog for now)
[03:53] <pleia2> sorry, got distracted
[03:53] <cjohnston> lol
[03:54] <pleia2> anyway, when you want to work on a subject, you put your name next to it with a date and say "blah blah I am working on this" maybe link to where you are working on it (on a wiki page? in bzr?)
[03:54] <pleia2> so say you want to work on "Monitoring" you just edit the wiki and put your name next to it
[03:55] <pleia2> you will notice some links on the page, this is another job we need folks to do - find existing documentation for each subject so it makes it easier for the course writer
[03:56] <cjohnston> k
[03:57] <pleia2> the "proper" procedure for writing these is using bzr and checking in revisions with asciidoc
[03:57] <pleia2> s/with/in
[03:57] <cjohnston> which i of course know nothing about
[03:57] <pleia2> but nigel and doctormo haven't finished to documentation and tools for that
[03:57] <pleia2> so we can't really do it yet
[04:00] <cjohnston> as this project been brought to the BT? they could help out with quite a bit of it
[04:01] <pleia2> the education focus group is pretty dead there :\
[04:01] <cjohnston> :-(
[04:01] <pleia2> but yeah, most of the team came from BT
[04:02] <cjohnston> ic
[04:08] <pleia2> ergh, I wish I was sleepy
[04:08] <cjohnston> me tyoo
[04:08] <cjohnston> too
[04:08] <cjohnston> lol
[04:15] <paultag> Aye
[04:15] <paultag> what about the BT?
[04:15] <cjohnston> hey paultag
[04:15] <cjohnston> helping out with UCLP
[04:15] <paultag> pleia2, I started that group too :(
[04:15] <paultag> cjohnston, Aye, BT loves UCLP
[04:16] <pleia2> paultag: aw
[04:16] <paultag> pleia2, then I gave it to nhandler
[04:16] <paultag> pleia2, then nhandler to cprofitt
[04:17] <pleia2> and then it kinda faded away
[04:17] <pleia2> mostly we came here, I think
[04:23] <paultag> Aye
[04:23] <paultag> It's kinda sad.
[04:49] <cjohnston> awfully quiet in here
[04:50]  * pleia2 tries to ignore IRC and read to get sleepy, fails
[04:50] <cjohnston> lol
[04:53] <pleia2> actually I have to go try harder, I have to work in 8 hours
[04:53] <pleia2> night!
[04:53] <cjohnston> g'nite
[13:31] <pleia2> doctormo: interesting blog post
[13:32] <doctormo> pleia2: The second support one?
[13:32] <pleia2> yeah
[13:35] <doctormo> pleia2: Oh, what is interesting for you
[13:35] <pleia2> one of the most valueable things I think I bring to the beginners team is my more advanced sysadmin skills, I end up helping the team members themselves more often than not
[13:36] <pleia2> but #ubuntu is too much, I can't really do the super low level support anymore
[13:36] <doctormo> Nor me
[13:36] <pleia2> so people come with advanced stuff, and we're not there to help
[13:37] <doctormo> I actually don't like redirecting people to #ubuntu
[13:37] <pleia2> I am not a huge fan either, but sometimes people can at least be redirected again to somewhere that *might* be helpful if people there can't help
[13:37] <doctormo> It's too busy and it encourages throw away help, instead of this knowlege being recorded so as to help others.
[13:37] <pleia2> yeah, there is that
[13:38] <pleia2> it's tricky though, how do we educate on these advanced topics? which ones do we target?
[13:38] <pleia2> it's easy with the lower level stuff, but once you get advanced a whole *world* of possibilities opens up
[13:39] <_marx_> hum...
[13:39]  * _marx_ has ignored #ubuntu since '06 or so
[13:39] <pleia2> hehe
[13:39] <_marx_> just too busy
[13:39] <pleia2> I've gone through phases where I'd rejoin for a couple months
[13:40] <pleia2> personally I'd *love* to see better openldap docs
[13:41] <_marx_> well folks looking for that level of help won't go to #ubuntu
[13:41] <pleia2> that's the topic, where do they go?
[13:41] <_marx_> i'd go to mr. google first
[13:42] <cjohnston> mornin
[13:42] <pleia2> context: http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/community-second-line-support/
[13:42] <pleia2> morning cjohnston
[13:42] <_marx_> personally on that topic i've read print material
[13:45] <cjohnston> holy crap.. i asked the library yesterday to purchase programming in python 3 and art of community and they are buying both
[13:45] <pleia2> :)
[13:46] <_marx_> cjohnston, awesome!
[13:47] <cjohnston> now im curious what else i may want
[13:47] <cjohnston> lol
[13:47] <_marx_> your tax dollars at work...
[13:48] <cjohnston> i pay my own salary too
[13:48] <_marx_> lucky you
[13:48] <cjohnston> ya
[13:51]  * cjohnston has a poor pathetic two year old today
[13:53] <_marx_> doctormo, wow; the user you quote could well be me and now i have to think of some response...
[13:55] <doctormo> _marx_: heh, he's a guy who emailed Jono, me and several other high profile Ubuntu people... my first reaction was: Oh dear lord no!
[13:57]  * cjohnston is confused
[13:57] <pleia2> cjohnston: see the link I posted above ;)
[13:57] <cjohnston> ok..
[13:58] <cjohnston> 1 sec...
[14:02] <doctormo> lol
[14:02] <doctormo> pleia2: A good class on LDAP would be great, but I don't know anyone who is able to write a class and who is good at it.
[14:02] <doctormo> My attempt was so feeble,
[14:03] <_marx_> well LDAP is a tough nut with many variables
[14:04] <_marx_> prolly set up a test environment to demonstrate "this works" then start throwing in the variables
[14:06] <cjohnston> ughh
[14:09] <cjohnston> mornin Pendulum
[14:09] <Pendulum> hiya cjohnston
[14:16] <cjohnston> pleia2: did you ever get a chance to look at the recruiting apge
[14:16] <cjohnston> page
[14:16] <pleia2> I knew I was forgetting something
[14:16] <cjohnston> ;-)
[14:22] <cjohnston> calling logitech
[14:22] <cjohnston> going to see if i can demand they ship first
[14:22] <_marx_> moanin' Pendulum
[14:23] <mhall119|work> cjohnston: that much be a nice keyboard to go through all this trouble
[14:23] <_marx_> cjohnston, i love logitech keyboards...yours wireless?
[14:23] <cjohnston> ya
[14:23] <cjohnston> Its under warrenty mike.. i dont wanna buy a new one
[14:23] <_marx_> ah never used one: wireless of any sort
[14:24] <cjohnston> it atleast worked intermittently before i called them
[14:24] <cjohnston> as he walked me through the troubleshooting steps it stopped workign period
[14:24] <cjohnston> they owe me a keyboard
[14:25] <pleia2> I used one for a while, but batteries die at the most inopportune times
[14:25] <cjohnston> lol
[14:25] <cjohnston> i cant stand wires
[14:25] <pleia2> "I have spares! ...no I don't, I used those the last time this happened, and my rechargeables no longer hold a charge.."
[14:26] <pleia2> yeah, wires don't bother me
[14:26] <cjohnston> lol
[14:28] <_marx_> wires work, bluetooth works but...
[14:29] <_marx_> for me a keyboard must have a large backspace button; because i use that one a lot :)
[14:30] <pleia2> hehe
[14:30] <_marx_> those wireless mac one's are horrible
[14:33] <cjohnston> i hate it when i cant understand the person on the phone!
[14:33] <pleia2> just agree to everything
[14:33] <cjohnston> no
[14:35] <_marx_> "please speak more slowly"
[14:35] <cjohnston> let me speak to your supervisor
[14:35] <_marx_> that can work unless the super is worse ;)
[14:36] <cjohnston> lol
[14:37] <_marx_> last time i had to call isp support i did that until level 3
[14:37] <cjohnston> i try to just bypass level 1 cause i normally know more than they do
[14:37] <_marx_> yeah script readers
[14:38] <_marx_> never say the "L" word
[14:38] <cjohnston> we had an issue where certain websites were inaccesssable (google).. and it was all of central florida... i called brighthouse.. the guy told me to reboot my modem
[14:38] <cjohnston> i explained to him that if the headline on the news is google.com is inaccessable for everyone REBOOTING ISNT GOING TO HELP
[14:38] <cjohnston> he didnt like that
[14:38] <pleia2> brighthouse modems bind to the mac address of the computer you connect with, they tell you to reboot it for *everything*
[14:39] <cjohnston> ya
[14:39] <pleia2> (this releases the mac)
[14:39] <cjohnston> my TV doesnt work.. reboot your modem
[14:39] <cjohnston> lol
[14:39] <pleia2> I had fun with their tech support when I was in melborne a little over a year ago
[14:39] <pleia2> they really are quite awful
[14:39] <cjohnston> lol
[14:40] <_marx_> rr is using toshiba modems here
[14:48] <cjohnston> supervisor speaks english!
[14:49] <cjohnston> still isnt doing what i want tho
[14:49] <_marx_> wires work
[14:50] <cjohnston> lol
[14:51]  * _marx_ biased because of kvm switch
[15:00] <cjohnston> uggh
[15:00] <cjohnston> i atleast got a quicker solution
[15:05] <pleia2> cjohnston: re: Classroom/Volunteer/Recruiting - 2 things
[15:05] <cjohnston> okie
[15:06] <pleia2> 1. People don't read paragrahs, so maybe see if you can break it up in a way that's easier on the lazy human brain, maybe break some of it into bullet points
[15:06] <cjohnston> lol
[15:06] <cjohnston> ok
[15:06] <pleia2> (ie - one bullet point for "get qualifications and experience" one bullet point for "get someone to vouch")
[15:06] <cjohnston> ok
[15:07] <pleia2> 2. point out that the reason we want this is because we want to maintain a high level of quality in the classroom :)
[15:07] <cjohnston> okies
[15:08] <pleia2> the last paragraph can probably be a numbered list of steps to go through
[15:09] <pleia2> oh and one more thing
[15:09] <pleia2> 3. Thank you! :)
[15:09] <pleia2> I really appreciate your help
[15:09] <cjohnston> np
[15:09] <cjohnston> expecially since you said you were gonna double the pay your giving me
[15:09] <pleia2> hehe
[15:10] <_marx_> 2x0=0 :-)
[15:10] <pleia2> _marx_: sshhh!
[15:10] <pleia2> :)
[15:10] <cjohnston> thanks for pointing that out _marx_
[15:10] <_marx_> lol
[15:34] <IdleOne> Good morning
[15:34] <Pendulum> hiya IdleOne
[15:54]  * cjohnston has to go to work @ 430 :-(
[16:04]  * pleia2 is at work now
[16:04]  * Pendulum is also at work
[16:05] <cjohnston> yall will probably be done about the time i go in
[16:06] <Pendulum> almost
[16:06] <pleia2> yep
[17:05] <nigel_nb> morning
[17:16] <Pendulum> there really ought to be a set channel when events are going on that's just helpers and presenters so that things like "when do you want questions" and "do you want to handle them yourself" can get sorted
[17:34] <cjohnston> pleia2: can I recruit people for Classroom to do ^^
[17:36] <pleia2> ok
[17:36] <pleia2> what do we want to call it?
[17:36] <pleia2> -backstage? hehe
[17:36] <cjohnston> lol
[17:36] <akgraner> Pendulum, after open week we talked about making that part of the questions we ask presenters when are scheduling then sessions
[17:36] <pleia2> maybe -prep
[17:37] <cjohnston> Classrom Helpers works
[17:37] <cjohnston> imo
[17:37] <pleia2> I'm actually wondering if we should move all the discussion we've been having *here* to such a management channel
[17:37] <Pendulum> *nods*
[17:37] <pleia2> so #ubuntu-classroom-helpers ?
[17:37] <Pendulum> makes sense to me
[17:38] <cjohnston> im confused not
[17:38] <cjohnston> nwo
[17:38] <cjohnston> if we want a "classroom backstage" to take classroom traffic out of here, thats fine.. but i was only thinking just specifically get a list of volunteers who could do "admin" stuff for the class (+m/+o/+v) and post questions
[17:39] <Pendulum> It just seemed like that was one of the things that made Saturday work as smoothly as it did that we had people in this channel which had less going on than -classroom-chat did so we could make sure everyone was on the same page for the little organizational things
[17:39] <cjohnston> I see two seperate ideas above tho
[17:39] <pleia2> currently the discussion is split between here, -community-team and the current classroom channels themselves
[17:39] <Pendulum> I think there are 2 separate ideas
[17:39] <pleia2> yes, they are different ideas
[17:40] <cjohnston> ok
[17:40] <cjohnston> i may not be as confused as i think
[17:40] <cjohnston> lol
[17:40] <pleia2> I was just thinking broader - the irc stuff has really overwhelmed the main purpose of this channel the past couple weeks
[17:40] <pleia2> if we do create such a channel, what else can it be used for, etc
[17:40]  * cjohnston likes -classroom-backstage   - used for anything related to the classrom
[17:40] <cjohnston> help/prep/thoughts
[17:40] <mhall119|work> I like -classroom-backstage, it could always be used by organizers
[17:41] <cjohnston> meeting are for classroom planning (like for what we were talking about meet with all UUD instructors the week before
[17:42] <cjohnston> and then the second idea, add a new task to the volunteer page for "session helpers"
[17:42] <cjohnston> who help out the instructor
[17:42] <Pendulum> I like both ideas
[17:44] <cjohnston> im good with both
[17:58] <pleia2> we should let dholbach and jcastro know, whetever we decide
[17:59] <pleia2> since they are the lead organizers of UOW and UDW
[17:59] <cjohnston> true
[17:59] <jcastro> sounds good
[17:59] <jcastro> done and done.
[17:59] <cjohnston> Is there a formal proccess to decide?
[17:59] <cjohnston> lol jcastro
[17:59] <jcastro> see, who says we need councils!
[17:59] <pleia2> hehe
[18:00] <pleia2> so, we're doing #ubuntu-classroom-backstage for all classroom planning and orchustrating then?
[18:00] <cjohnston> the council for the council for the council
[18:00] <cjohnston> that works pleia2
[18:00] <pleia2> except spelled not horribly
[18:00] <pleia2> :)
[18:01] <cjohnston> Oh no
[18:01] <pleia2> what?
[18:01] <cjohnston> its for planning and orchustrating!
[18:01] <pleia2> orchestrating!
[18:01] <pleia2> hehe
[18:02] <IdleOne> orcastrating
[18:03] <cjohnston> 13.02.31 -!- cjohnston changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom-backstage to: planning and orchustrating for #ubuntu-classroom
[18:03] <pleia2> haha
[18:03] <pleia2> :P
[18:08] <pleia2> ok, #ubuntu-classroom-backstage is set up
[18:08] <pleia2> probably no need to use it for UDW at this point, but in the future..! :)
[18:09] <cjohnston> True
[18:09] <cjohnston> I'll update the Classroom page to reflect as well
[18:09] <cjohnston> nhandler: ping
[18:09] <pleia2> thanks!
[18:11] <pleia2> cjohnston: I'd say s/learning/classroom-backstage in the banner at the top of the page
[18:11] <pleia2> for channel
[18:15] <cjohnston> pleia2: like that?
[18:15] <pleia2> yes :)
[18:15] <cjohnston> okie
[18:28]  * pleia2 frowns at the wiki for not sending her emails
[18:31] <cjohnston> I trivial'ed them
[18:32] <cjohnston> this is the last class i can do questions for.. anyone else want to finish the day?
[18:35]  * pleia2 hates trivial option
[18:35] <pleia2> can't, work :(
[18:36] <cjohnston> lol.. I dont wanna spam everyone for little things.. You can chose to be ntf on spam
[18:36] <cjohnston> sorry.. on trivial
[18:36] <pleia2> yeah I know :)
[18:49] <nigel_nb> hey people
[18:49] <nigel_nb> hows everyone doing?
[18:51] <cjohnston> nigel_nb: check your email
[18:51] <nigel_nb> pleia2's mail?
[18:51] <nigel_nb> I read that ;)
[18:51] <cjohnston> yup
[18:52] <nigel_nb> we need another channel but thats later on
[18:52] <nigel_nb> and not necessarily registered
[18:52] <nigel_nb> just off and on, when we're reviewing the feedback, I'd rather have that meeting "off the record"
[19:01] <nigel_nb> nice to see slides being used for UDW and great to see you guys helping out
[19:01] <nigel_nb> I wish I could :(
[19:02] <cjohnston> you at work?
[19:03] <nigel_nb> yep
[19:03] <nigel_nb> the UDW conicides perfectly with my work timings meaning I can't attend it at all, just read logs :(
[19:03] <cjohnston> :-(
[19:03] <pleia2> yeah, it's all during my work day too
[19:04] <nigel_nb> pleia2: but you can be on irc at work, I can't :(
[19:04] <nigel_nb> jst occasional 20 mins on webchat
[19:04]  * pleia2 nods
[19:04] <pleia2> I still can't keep up :) might as well be logs