[00:48] <ccheney> asac: looking
[00:48] <ccheney> asac: things like PROP_* are defined in many different c files with differing values in enums afaict
[00:48] <ccheney> asac: after separating most of the c files to try to work around issues like that i have hit another snag
[00:49] <ccheney> i'm now somehow getting multiple redefinition of GCancellable
[00:49] <ccheney> if i add it in i get that, if i don't i get error it can't be found
[00:49] <ccheney> trying to track down where i am missing a header that is needed
[00:50] <ccheney> asac: just uploaded my current debdiff
[00:51] <ccheney> i may just need to get rid of the rest of the monolithic glibc-copy.* files to make it work right
[00:55] <ccheney> hmm yea that seems to have helped
[00:57] <ccheney> actually it didn't work after all, just threw an extra error making me think it was fixed
[00:59] <ccheney> asac: put another version up just now
[01:00] <ccheney> asac: not sure how to make this work properly :-\
[01:20] <ccheney> hmm maybe i should have each header in my patch include gio.h
[01:21]  * ccheney isn't sure whether that is a good idea though
[01:29] <micahg> asac: am I to try again with TB3 tonight?
[03:57] <micahg> asac: I think I got it this time :)
[05:07] <micahg> asac: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~micahg/thunderbird/thunderbird.head.TB3-separate_commits
[05:07] <micahg> asac: For some reason, my tarball is bad, I seem to be pulling the head instead of the version I select
[05:07] <micahg> but it builds fine
[08:44] <BUGabundo_remote> morning
[10:01] <White_Sloun> hello, new issue with apparmor & ubuntu 9.04
[10:01] <White_Sloun> http://pastebin.com/m544ea2e2
[10:09] <White_Sloun> hello, new issue with apparmor & ubuntu 9.04
[10:09] <White_Sloun> http://pastebin.com/m544ea2e2
[10:10] <asac> hi White_Sloun
[10:11] <asac> jdstrand: ^^
[13:05] <Q-FUNK> hi! any suggestion for Bug #512673 ?
[14:31] <asac> fta: how can i recreate a tarball for 4.0.305.0~svn20100123r36929 ?
[14:31] <asac> chromium?
[14:32] <asac> get-current-source i guess ;)
[14:40] <ejat> anyone hv try xmark with ff3.6?
[15:03] <micahg> asac: ping re tb3
[15:03] <asac> micahg: it built
[15:03] <asac> havent come to test yet
[15:03] <micahg> my version?
[15:03] <micahg> PPA or local?
[15:04]  * micahg can test if PPA
[15:04] <asac> micahg: your branch
[15:04] <asac> have you tested it?
[15:05] <micahg> I test built, but my tarball was bad
[15:05] <asac> right i read that
[15:05] <asac> will produce a good one for upload
[15:05] <micahg> asac: k, if you push to PPA, I'll install and test
[15:05] <micahg> do I need to add the migrator?
[15:05] <asac> micahg: we need to update the thunderbird-locales-all source package
[15:06] <micahg> asac: is that langpacks?
[15:07] <asac> micahg: yes
[15:07] <asac> micahg: i will review and upload your package (and maybe slightly change it) ... so moving on to locales would be best imo
[15:08] <micahg> asac: k, thanks
[15:08] <micahg> asac: do I need to download the locales?
[15:08]  * micahg pulls source
[15:09] <asac> micahg: pull source ... then you also need to get all .xpis from mozilla ftp
[15:09] <asac> and put them in xpi
[15:09] <asac> then i dont know exactly whats the right way forward
[15:09] <asac> but i think there is a update-langpacks or so rule in debian/rules
[15:10] <micahg> k
[15:11] <micahg> yep, update-xpi
[15:11] <micahg> should I do3.0 or 3.0.1?
[15:11] <micahg> ugh, they changed release style
[15:13]  * micahg check with upstream
[15:22] <jdstrand> asac: oh, I forget to remove -W and -T
[15:22]  * jdstrand fixes
[15:22] <asac> thanks
[15:24] <micahg> asac: should I prepare 3.0 or 3.0.1?
[15:27] <asac> micahg: 3.0 (langpacks)
[15:27] <asac> micahg: its a bit crazy that package ... with how transitional packages etc. work
[15:27] <asac> or how to intermediately drop stuff
[15:27] <asac> if something doesnt work let me know
[15:27] <micahg> k
[15:28] <micahg> asac: there were 3 that didn't make it into 3.0
[15:37] <micahg> asac: should I change maintainer to mozilla team?
[15:44] <asac> micahg: dont think we need to change maintainer
[15:44] <micahg> asac: what do I do for the 3 languages that didn't make it, comment out the lines in control?
[15:45] <micahg> I think they were picked up in 3.0.1
[16:09] <fta2> asac, bad commit
[16:10] <fta2> asac, "+Files: src/.pc/html5_video_mimetypes.patch/net/base/{mime_util.cc}"
[16:11] <fta2> and the license script looks broken
[16:23] <asac> yes
[16:25] <asac> good catch
[16:25] <asac> let me uncomit
[16:33] <fta2> asac, i don't understand why the diff is so big
[16:33] <asac> me neither
[16:33] <fta2> seems like you need to properly sort the entries to avoid that
[16:34] <fta2> oh, it's licensecheck
[16:34] <asac> hmm
[16:35] <asac> maybe i didnt run it on the latest orig
[16:35] <fta2> for multiline copyrights, they are not reported in the same order.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/363310/
[16:35] <fta2> baaaaad
[16:42] <asac> fta2: did it manually for thise upload now
[16:42] <asac> to avoid confusion
[16:44] <asac> fta2: can you upload latest .head (i did the release tag)
[16:45] <asac> let me know when its in, so i can tell riddell its there
[16:45] <asac> he said it would be ok then
[16:45] <asac> revno: 473
[16:45] <asac> tags: 4.0.305.0~svn20100123r36929-0ubuntu1
[16:45] <asac> thanks
[16:45] <asac> fta2: ^^
[16:46] <fta2> let me see, i hope i still have that tarball
[16:47] <fta2> asac, why do you need to document that in d/changelog? it's the initial upload
[16:47] <asac> fta2: because its a change archive admins refused ... in that way its showing that we addressed that on top
[16:47] <asac> you can recreate tarball ... i think reject doesnt leave any hashsum around etc.
[16:48] <fta2> i still have it
[16:48] <asac> good
[16:48] <fta2> trunk moved to 5.0.306.0 btw
[16:52] <fta2> ok, uploading
[16:52] <fta2> done
[17:02] <asac> thanks
[17:03] <asac> urgh
[17:03] <asac> fta2: crap
[17:03] <fta2> ?
[17:03] <asac> i forgot to manually append the license ;)
[17:03] <asac> want to do that and upload the same version?
[17:04] <ccheney> asac: do you think i should try including gio.h in all my glib files to work around the duplicate symbol issue?
[17:04] <asac> its just catting it with one whitspace line
[17:04] <fta2> asac, sure. could you ask Jonathan to kill it?
[17:04] <asac> fta2: already did
[17:04] <asac> aready was rejected
[17:04] <fta2> *sigh*
[17:05] <asac> well. i asked for rejecting it ;)
[17:05] <asac> ccheney: i would need to see the exact issue and the current state of the patch
[17:06] <asac> i started a git tree locally ... with the patch you gave me yesterday i didnt see the issue you are referring to
[17:06] <ccheney> asac: current version is up on chinstrap
[17:06] <asac> ccheney: can you plesae put that to a public place?
[17:06] <asac> wgettable
[17:06] <ArneGoetje> asac, ccheney: I need some time with you two to discuss how to proceed with FF-3.6 translations in Launchpad.
[17:08] <ArneGoetje> asac, ccheney: since 3.6 has been uploaded to lucid already, which translation template does it use?
[17:09] <ccheney> asac: http://people.canonical.com/~ccheney/libsoup2.4-hardy-backport.diff
[17:09] <fta2> asac, all done
[17:09] <asac> thx
[17:09] <asac> fta2:
[17:09] <asac> thx
[17:10] <ccheney> asac: i get conflicts with things like GCancellable which are in both the /usr/include/glib area and in other parts of the original source i am trying to copy over
[17:10] <asac> ccheney: why do i always need to filter out all this generated stuff?
[17:10] <asac> i did that like 5 times now :(
[17:10] <asac> anyway
[17:11] <ccheney> asac: i was just generating debdiff from original hardy version, maybe i should do something different?
[17:12] <asac> 18:11 < ccheney> asac: i was just generating debdiff from original hardy version, maybe i should do something different?
[17:12] <ccheney> yes that was the last thing i said
[17:12] <asac> yes. a git tree ;)
[17:12] <ccheney> ah :)
[17:13] <asac> or bzr ;)
[17:13] <asac> let me check if we have a bzr import of that tag
[17:25] <asac> ccheney: do you still have the patch from yesterday?=
[17:25] <asac> not sure why you needed to split all this up
[17:26] <ccheney> not anymore
[17:27] <ccheney> i had problem with some of the variables needing to be copied from various source files that had colliding symbol names (in the c files), then once i broke it up into separate sources the issue with needing to copy parts that collided with the /usr/include/glib stuff happened
[17:27] <ccheney> i think possibly creating a gio.h include in the proper files might help but i haven't tried that yet
[17:27] <asac> i didnt see those issues with the patch you had yesterday
[17:27] <ccheney> eg the PROP_FAMILY one you mentioned
[17:28] <ccheney> it was part of a enum that collided with some of its values with another enum from another c file
[17:28] <asac> thats none-sense
[17:28] <asac> the PROP_FAMLIY was just needed to be copied in the .c file
[17:29] <asac> lets hope i can still find it
[17:29] <ccheney> just stick it in one giant enum then?
[17:30] <asac> no
[17:30] <asac> use a different prefix if it collieds
[17:30] <ccheney> because there were separate enum types in each c file with colliding names for their values
[17:30] <asac> afaik it was just required in the .c files
[17:30] <asac> yes
[17:30] <asac> you can prefix that
[17:30] <asac> e.g.
[17:30] <asac> GSOCKETADDRESS_PROP_FAMILY
[17:30] <asac> etc.
[17:30] <asac> and replace that in the snippets
[17:30] <ccheney> ok
[17:30] <asac> if it really happens
[17:31] <ccheney> yea it was really happening
[17:31] <asac> your patch yesterday was pretty close
[17:31] <asac> now everything is busted ;)
[17:31] <ccheney> its still pretty much there, i just would need to merge the files back together again i guess
[17:31] <ccheney> then prefix all the enums
[17:32] <ccheney> probably prefix them first actually so i don't end up messing up some of them, heh
[17:32] <asac> whatever oyu do ... keep a local history
[17:32] <ccheney> ok
[17:33] <ccheney> i think the reason it was working before was that i had a include gio.h at the top of the header that i removed
[17:33] <ccheney> that might be enough to make it work again, i saw it there and thought i had put it there by accident, probably did it when i first started working on the files
[17:33] <asac> so first thing i had to do in your pach was to include gobj-copy.h
[17:33] <asac> you didnt do that
[17:33] <ccheney> then without it i get issues of duplicate symbols
[17:33] <asac> i didnt add gio.h
[17:34] <ccheney> hmm ok, i will look at it again and see where i left off
[17:40] <fta2> asac, http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=33163
[17:42] <jdstrand> ok-- as it turns out, apparmor_parser -r didn't honor the /etc/apparmor.d/disable dir on Jaunty and earlier (disable/ was handling be the initscript)
[17:43] <jdstrand> so I updated the preinst to unconditionally disable the profile in 9.04 and earlier (it needs abstractions only found in 9.10 anyway) and to check if the profile is disabled
[17:43] <jdstrand> in postinst
[17:43] <jdstrand> that should the dailies on jaunty and earlier
[17:44] <jdstrand> s/should/should fix/
[17:44] <asac> jdstrand: thanks.
[17:44] <asac> jdstrand: once thats confirmed i will push an update to the stable ppa and lucid (if you are saying its ready there)
[17:44] <jdstrand> changes are committed to 3.6 and 3.7-- I tested 3.6 on jaunty
[17:45] <jdstrand> the jaunty stuff that White_Sloan was seeing was actually not hurting anything-- the profile didn't load and postinst has || true, it was just disconcerting
[17:46] <asac> ok ok
[17:46] <asac> in case he shows up i will get him confirm that it didnt cause any havoc
[17:47] <asac> anyway break
[17:47] <asac> for a bit
[17:48] <mbana> does the new FF default to the new JS engine
[17:49] <micahg> asac: testing tb locales in pbuilder
[17:51] <asac> micahg: great
[17:51] <micahg> asac: if it builds where should I push?
[17:51] <asac> micahg: to your ppa?
[17:51] <micahg> sure
[17:52] <micahg> as ppa version (~karmic~ppa1)?
[17:52] <asac> try to install a langpack
[17:52] <asac> and check that it works maybe
[17:52] <micahg> k
[17:52] <asac> sure
[17:52] <asac> you can also append ~ppa to the upstream version
[17:52] <micahg> I'm test building in lucid
[17:52] <asac> so in case the tarball isnt good we can still bump it
[17:53] <micahg> asac: I removed the langs that didn'
[17:53] <micahg> t have packs
[17:53] <micahg> s/removed/commented out/
[17:53] <asac> i think thats the wrong approach
[17:53] <asac> there is amechanism to null them
[17:53] <asac> in the package
[17:53] <micahg> ah, ok
[17:53] <micahg> I'll check
[17:53] <asac> i think its basdically shipping empty packages with a different description
[17:53] <asac> try to figure that
[17:53] <asac> thats just out of my head
[17:54] <asac> but i think in the control of the previous upload
[17:54] <micahg> asac: I'll have to check that tonight then
[17:54] <asac> there should be precedence of previously existing, but now gone langpacks
[18:01] <mbana> i guess u guys know
[18:02] <micahg> asac: I found I missed a step in the packaging, I'll fix it tonight
[18:18] <mbana> hi, is tracemonkey enabled by default on the ppa package
[18:23] <micahg> mbana: I think whatever the default upstream for 3.6 is
[18:30] <asac> right. all upstream.
[18:31] <mbana> do you know offhand?  i dont want to have to start FF, last time i had 30+ tabs open
[18:33] <asac> ... there exists no answer to your question because you do not define what new engine means
[18:33] <asac> its new in that its a new release ;)
[18:38] <micahg> mbana: you can ask in #firefox on irc.mozilla.org
[18:38] <gavin> tracemonkey is on by default in firefox 3.5
[18:39] <micahg> gavin: I thought that was windows only?
[18:39] <gavin> no
[18:39] <micahg> k
[18:39] <micahg> mbana: ^^
[18:39] <gavin> the tracemonkey in 3.6 is better though :)
[18:39] <gavin> (also in 3.6 it's enabled for chrome code)
[18:39] <micahg> gavin: was it jit that was disabled on linux in 3.5?
[18:40] <gavin> no, it wasn't disabled
[18:40] <micahg> hmm
[18:40] <asac> amd64 was disabled
[18:40] <micahg> k
[18:40] <asac> not sure if its enabled now
[18:40] <micahg> maybe that was it
[18:40] <gavin> oh, there just isn't code for 64 bit
[18:40] <asac> right. so nothing changed for that
[18:40] <gavin> so not really "disabled" as much as "nonexistent" :)
[18:40] <micahg> gavin: it does an arch test?
[18:41] <asac> sure. compile time
[18:41] <micahg> k
[18:42] <mbana> right.  ok
[18:42] <mbana> that probably explains it
[18:43] <mbana> i wasn't experiencing much of a speedup when i tried it
[18:43] <mbana> do u guys have a32bit ppa for 64bit machine
[18:43] <mbana> of distro rather
[18:44] <micahg> mbana: no
[18:46] <asac> 19:45 < Riddell> asac: just accepted chromium, well done again on a heroic license evaluation feet
[18:46] <asac> fta: ^^
[18:47] <micahg> fta: congrats
[18:48] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/4.0.305.0~svn20100123r36929-0ubuntu1
[18:55] <jcastro> fta: you're a legend.
[18:55] <jcastro> asac: you too!
[18:56] <jcastro> fta: asac: will this be updated throughout the lifecycle the plan for firefox is?
[18:56] <jcastro> fta: asac: will this be updated throughout the lifecycle /like/ the plan for firefox is?
[18:57] <jcastro> I suck at english
[18:57]  * micahg saw the chromium version bump to 5 today
[18:59] <fta> \o/
[19:04] <sebner> micahg: I thought chrome just reached v4.x
[19:04] <micahg> sebner: devel version
[19:04] <sebner> micahg: I also thought the official v4 version for linux is still beta :P
[19:04] <micahg> sebner: I'm runnig the daily
[19:04] <sebner> aye
[19:04] <micahg> sebner: chrome != chromium
[19:05] <sebner> micahg: well, chromium is the base of it so ..
[19:05] <micahg> sebner: yes, but the base can have a devel branch :)
[19:05] <sebner> micahg: you are more bleeding edge than normal bleeding edge :P
[19:05] <micahg> sebner: not my regualr browser :)
[19:06] <sebner> lame then :P
[19:06]  * micahg uses ff36, but has most of the other browsers installed including ff37 and chromium daily for testing
[19:07] <sebner> micahg: ff trunk ftw! :)
[19:07] <micahg> yep
[19:07]  * micahg might upgrade when ff37 hits beta
[19:08]  * micahg still has to submit a couple patches upstream to mozilla :)
[19:09] <sebner> pray they'll accept :P
[19:11] <fta> jcastro, i will update it but i'm not sure which "channel" would be best to follow. stable will most probably become too old to fast for most
[19:12] <fta> jcastro, and the codecs are still missing, we need to decide what to do with those
[19:12] <jcastro> fta: I was thinking -stable in releases and -dev for dev releases
[19:13] <jcastro> fta: can't go into multiverse?
[19:13] <fta> no idea, i'm not a lawyer
[19:13] <jcastro> heh
[19:17] <fta> i mean, if h264 becomes nonfree to use in 2011, well.. *sigh* i don't know
[19:41] <fta> jcastro, ^^, also, to send the next update, we need at least one channel to jump over the version we just uploaded, could take some time :P
[19:41] <jcastro> hah
[19:44] <fta> so my guess is that a lot of people still using the daily ppa will keep using it
[19:55] <[reed]> [13:08:26] * micahg still has to submit a couple patches upstream to mozilla :)
[19:55] <[reed]> I look forward to seeing them.
[20:14] <micahg> [reed]: as soon as I have time :)
[20:16] <fta> jcastro, if stable for linux is also 4.0.249.78, our 4.0.305.0 is far ahead :P
[20:31] <fta> asac, you're the only contributor to chromium-browser.head, 15% of the commits, thanks for the license work
[20:31] <fta> overall, 475 commits in 442 days, just for packaging :P
[21:06] <asac> fta: yeah. great. no problem. thanks for getting all this going ;)
[21:07] <sebner> asac: Wondering, why Canonical didn't make a deal with Google
[21:07] <asac> sebner: about what?
[21:08] <sebner> asac: Yahoo as default search provider
[21:09] <micahg> asac: rick made a post to the devel list
[21:10]  * asac  checks
[21:10] <fta> asac, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-January/030065.html
[21:12] <asac> heh. ok
[21:12] <asac> so its sent
[21:13] <asac> yes. thats how it is ;)
[21:14] <sebner> asac: now you don't need to hold back the informations :P
[21:14] <asac> there is not much information
[21:15] <sebner> well, I'm sure it was not made public for a while
[21:15] <asac> google seems to not like their users enough to keep them by default ;)
[21:15] <sebner> It's a little bit crazy though. Google pays mozilla for being default and yahoo pays canonical for changing it
[21:16] <asac> heh. one point of looking at it
[21:19] <sebner> asac: I'd be happy if my changed search engines won't change on ff updates ;)
[21:19] <micahg> sebner: that's on my list of things to patch ;)
[21:19] <sebner> micahg: heh, that's annoys me since years :P
[21:20] <micahg> sebner: I only heard about it a few weeks ago
[21:20] <sebner> micahg: nah, I'm seeing this since years (maybe you FF addon is at fault)
[21:20] <sebner> *your
[21:21] <micahg> sebner: no, we know what it is...now it just needs a patch
[21:22] <sebner> great ^^
[21:22] <rickspencer3> hi guys
[21:22]  * sebner is too lazy to delete the same search engines over and over again
[21:22] <sebner> heya rickspencer3 :)
[21:22] <rickspencer3> well, according to the internet, I have sold ubuntu to Yahoo!
[21:22] <rickspencer3> sorry about that
[21:22] <rickspencer3> it was an accident
[21:22] <rickspencer3> :/
[21:23] <sebner> wth?
[21:24]  * sebner is not sure if he should start laughing xD
[21:25] <sebner> rickspencer3: I have the feeling if you told Google about the deal they would have paid more but it's quite stupid to pay money twice
[21:26] <rickspencer3> sebner, I can't really discuss our discussions with mozilla and/or google
[21:26] <rickspencer3> but suffice to say, our first choice was to stick with Google
[21:26]  * micahg is afraid to ask the question I'm thinking, rickspencer3: PM?
[21:26] <rickspencer3> micahg, you can ask
[21:26] <rickspencer3> it's just there is some things that business partners ask me to not discuss
[21:26] <rickspencer3> I'll just tell you if I can't say because of that
[21:27] <micahg> rickspencer3: you sure?
[21:27]  * sebner is interested too
[21:27] <rickspencer3> go ahead and ask
[21:27] <rickspencer3> what can it hurt?
[21:27] <micahg> does this affect the branding since we're changing an app default?
[21:27] <rickspencer3> hmm
[21:27] <micahg> a lot :P
[21:27] <asac> no
[21:27] <rickspencer3> sadly, I can't answer that because I don't know what you mean :/
[21:27] <asac> he wonders if we have to go for iceweasel or abrowser now
[21:28] <rickspencer3> ah
[21:28] <rickspencer3> good question
[21:28] <rickspencer3> the answer is "no"
[21:28] <micahg> k
[21:28] <rickspencer3> it's pretty common for folks who distribute FIrefox to change the search provider
[21:28] <rickspencer3> (and there are other common changes like links and stuff)
[21:29] <rickspencer3> however, if you change it too much from the default experience, then Mozilla requests you don't use the "Firefox" brand
[21:29] <sebner> rickspencer3: btw, secret question ... Alice told me that she'll reply in the New Year, so I'm wondering if I should write a reminder mail. people tend to forget poor sebner :(
[21:29] <rickspencer3> suffice to say, this change will not suprise the great folks at Mozilla
[21:29] <rickspencer3> sebner, hmm
[21:29] <rickspencer3> I'll see her next week
[21:29] <rickspencer3> find me online next week and I can reconnect you guys
[21:29] <sebner> rickspencer3: wondering about changing "too much", Changing the search provider is a big deal as they get money for it
[21:30] <mconnor> omgchange!!!!111one
[21:30] <mconnor> (j/k)
[21:30] <sebner> rickspencer3: sure. thanks a lot. I just want to make sure I'm not that annoying to you guys
[21:30] <rickspencer3> sebner, yeah, this is one that is ok, and like I say, Mozilla will not be surprised by this change
[21:30] <sebner> kk
[21:30] <mconnor> sebner: there's a _bunch_ of partner builds with different defaults
[21:31] <asac> he ... there he is ;)
[21:31] <asac> hi mconnor
[21:31] <mconnor> hey asac :)
[21:31]  * sebner has the feeling mconnor is some kind of VIP but I don't know him :(
[21:32] <mconnor> sebner: it's okay, I fly under a lot of radar
[21:32] <rickspencer3> heh
[21:32] <asac> stealth mode ;)
[21:32] <mconnor> mostly
[21:32]  * sebner googles for Mike Connor
[21:33] <sebner> mconnor: I doubt you are the 83 year old actor? ^^
[21:34] <mconnor> sebner: nope, not even close
[21:34] <sebner> Mike Connor, Firefox's development leader
[21:34] <sebner> OHHHHH
[21:34] <rickspencer3> heh
[21:35] <rickspencer3> have I mentioned lately what cool guys the Mozilla team are?
[21:35] <mconnor> ;)
[21:35] <mconnor> I do stuff
[21:36] <rickspencer3> so apparantly, there is a wide spread belief that Google is an open source company that donates their services to the internet, and never monetizes searches
[21:36] <sebner> mconnor: Are you now here to tease asac and rickspencer3?
[21:36] <rickspencer3> this makes it rather harder to discuss search providers than I thought it would be :)
[21:38] <mconnor> rickspencer3: perceptions are funny like that
[21:39] <mconnor> sebner: I've been hanging in this channel for a year or so, I think
[21:39] <sebner> mconnor: I not sure I've seen you before (I'm also quite a while here), you are not talking that much usually are you?
[21:39] <mconnor> no, I lurk a lot
[21:40] <sebner> hahah
[21:40]  * sebner too
[21:41] <mconnor> I don't troll Linux people anymore
[21:41] <mconnor> ;)
[21:41] <mconnor> people take it seriously since the whole iceweasel thing
[21:41] <sebner> mconnor: Really a honor to meet you and I'm sure you hear that a lot but thx for making such a great browser :)
[21:41] <mconnor> :)
[21:41] <sebner> mconnor: well, Debian != Ubuntu
[21:42] <mconnor> true, moreso these days, but people took that whole thing as a giant "I hate Linux" thing
[21:43] <rickspencer3> :(
[21:43] <mconnor> which isn't true, but meh
[21:44] <sebner> mconnor: I think I'm a little bit too "young" as I'm using Ubuntu since 2006 and that naming thing happened in 2005 iirc? I've always thought that Debian is too strict regarding this issue but we have to respect the DFSG
[21:45] <mconnor> naming/branding is a hard thing
[21:46] <sebner> I guess so :(
[21:46] <mconnor> I watch how projects handle it, it's hard
[21:47] <mconnor> Ubuntu has the same tricky thing with downstream distros
[21:47] <sebner> mconnor: yeah, what do you think about our "abrowser"
[21:50] <mconnor> sebner: it's not a bad approach, I haven't looked at the details
[21:55] <sebner> mconnor: I'm just wondering about Fedora using Firefox where Debian is not. Fedora is known to be pretty strict with that stuff normally
[21:57] <asac> sebner: you can look yourself
[21:57] <asac> fedora uses firefox
[21:58] <asac> trademark != license
[21:58] <asac> and they seem to have the same approach as we have wrt the non-free icon
[21:59] <asac> if you ask why fedora thinks thats ok, you need to ask them directly i guess
[22:00] <sebner> asac: kk, just thought he might have an idea as he's not only lurking around in Ubuntu land I suppose :)
[22:01] <asac> i think fedora is most concerned about binary blobs for code
[22:01] <asac> as those cannot be changed
[22:02] <asac> otherwise they probably have a similar practical approach as we wrt to artwork for branding
[22:02] <sebner> aye
[22:09] <micahg> news about search engine switch hit phoronix: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Phoronix/~3/AHNpsPqZpzY/vr.php
[22:10] <and`> asac: what's the point in having yahoo as search engine?
[22:11] <sebner> and`: €€€
[22:11] <and`> k, got it
[22:13] <rickspencer3> and`, I thought I was quite direct and concise about the reasoning
[22:13] <rickspencer3> was I not?
[22:13] <sebner> heh
[22:13] <rickspencer3> phoronix article seems quite factual
[22:13] <and`> rickspencer3: I saw a bug on the firefox package about it, didn't read any blog post or other source
[22:13] <rickspencer3> I meant that seriously
[22:14] <rickspencer3> hope it didn't come off as snitty
[22:14] <rickspencer3> ah
[22:14]  * sebner is wondering when the first flame/complain mails will show up
[22:14]  * micahg doesn't think the title sounds so good
[22:14] <micahg> bug?
[22:14] <rickspencer3> and`, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2010-January/002396.html
[22:14] <and`> micahg: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/292693
[22:15] <and`> also
[22:15] <and`> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/292693
[22:15] <and`> and more
[22:15] <and`> rickspencer3: ty, I'm not subscribed to u-desktop, that's why :)
[22:15] <rickspencer3> heh
[22:15] <rickspencer3> I sent to u-devel as well
[22:16] <micahg> and`: nothing in there about changing search engine iirc, just people complaining
[22:17] <and`> rickspencer3: the reasoning looks sane enough :)
[22:17] <rickspencer3> well "reasoning" and "Internet" don't usual cooperate too well
[22:17] <rickspencer3> ;)
[22:18] <micahg> firefox 3.5 is going to lose its lead as most popular browser in the world soon
[22:18] <sebner> micahg: 3.6 or maybe 4.0 will fill the gap
[22:19] <micahg> sebner: it'll take time :)
[22:19] <micahg> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-weekly-201003-201004
[22:19] <and`> rickspencer3: I think Google has become a point of reference for everyone out there, so there will be lots of complains, but that's normal
[22:19]  * sebner is sad about the linux line :(
[22:20] <micahg> this is more accurate: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-weekly-200927-201004
[22:20] <rickspencer3> and`, right
[22:20] <micahg> or rather more reflective
[22:20] <rickspencer3> and folks tend to think that Google does not monetize your searches or track your usage or anything
[22:21]  * micahg tries to use startpage.com
[22:21] <and`> rickspencer3: for example, the yahoo italian website is not really good and it takes sometime to load cause images et all, the google homepage is simple and easy to use, and that's what users want
[22:21] <rickspencer3> yeah
[22:21] <rickspencer3> well *some* users
[22:22] <rickspencer3> but if you like Google, go for it
[22:22] <rickspencer3> I will not restrict anyone's choice
[22:22] <and`> I'm an Iceweasel user so no prob for me, was just saying my two cents about this :)
[22:22] <sebner> rickspencer3: hasn't history told us that the welfare of the few count more than the welfare of the many? ^^
[22:23] <and`> Iceweasel / Chrome
[22:23] <micahg> sebner: or the one... :)
[22:23]  * sebner uses FF and epiphany
[22:23] <and`> ephy is good too
[22:23] <sebner> micahg: heh :)
[22:23] <and`> had some issues with the transition to webkit, but looks fine so far
[22:24] <and`> poor asac, he will receive all the complaints himself
[22:24] <and`> lol
[22:24] <rickspencer3> I think firefox is the best browser atm (for many reasons) so we should keep it as the default
[22:25] <sebner> and`: ack
[22:25] <sebner> rickspencer3: ack
[22:25] <and`> yep, it's still the best for now, but won't be in the next 2-3 years
[22:25] <and`> or even less
[22:26] <micahg> news hit the planet: http://popey.com/blog/2010/01/26/yahoobuntu/
[22:26] <micahg> rickspencer3: you sure about yahoo not tracking search results
[22:27]  * micahg would prefer to give canonical the revenue :)
[22:27] <sebner> micahg: what's the difference in google tracking and yahoo?
[22:28] <sebner> and`: chrome is overhyped imho
[22:28] <micahg> sebner: good builds profiles of your searching to display ads elsewhere
[22:28] <micahg> s/good/google/g
[22:29] <sebner> haha
[22:29] <sebner> micahg: and yahoo?
[22:29] <micahg> sebner: idk
[22:29] <rickspencer3> micahg, I don't know what htey track
[22:29] <rickspencer3> but I know that they don't share *any* usage data with their partners
[22:29] <micahg> k
[22:30]  * sebner continues using Google and I'm happy with it
[22:31] <sebner> rickspencer3: But you get a fix amount of money or does that depend on how many user really use Yahoo as default search?
[22:31] <rickspencer3> it depends on the how many people use it
[22:31] <rickspencer3> but they just say how much we made
[22:32] <sebner> ic
[22:34] <sebner> rickspencer3: Can I ask you a "delicate" question?
[22:34] <rickspencer3> sure
[22:34] <rickspencer3> go for it
[22:34] <sebner> rickspencer3: Will you stay with Google search or don't you care what you use (Yahoo)?
[22:34]  * rickspencer3 wishes more people would ask me questions rather than make up crazy stories for their blogs ;)
[22:34] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[22:34] <sebner> lol
[22:34] <rickspencer3> I think I'll switch to Google
[22:34] <rickspencer3> when I do normal searches, I don't find much difference
[22:35] <rickspencer3> for a while, i had a really bad taste in my mouth concerning Google
[22:35] <rickspencer3> so I didn't use Google for like 6 months
[22:35] <rickspencer3> Yahoo! was fine *except* when searching for programming related topics
[22:35] <rickspencer3> so like "pygtk format TreeView Column" that kind of stuff always seemed better on Google
[22:37] <sebner> rickspencer3: so that's the reason for Google or is it out of habit?
[22:37] <rickspencer3> no, because I occasionally search for coding related stuff, and Google does better with that than Yahoo!
[22:37] <rickspencer3> I also use Google code search once every week or two
[22:38] <sebner> kk
[22:38] <sebner> thx for answering :)
[22:44] <rickspencer3> sure sebner, no problem
[22:44] <rickspencer3> what about you?
[22:44] <sebner> Copy&Paste
[22:44] <sebner> * sebner continues using Google and I'm happy with it
[22:46] <sebner> rickspencer3: on every firefox update I have the bug that my search engines are reset to default Ubuntu Firefox so I don't really care for the extra work anyways
[22:50] <asac> sebner: thats a bug as you said
[22:50] <asac> we know how to fix it
[22:50] <asac> we were just trying to find a better way to fix it
[22:50] <sebner> asac: yeah I know, just wanted to mention it to rickspencer3 :P
[22:50] <sebner> asac: for the last years? ^^
[22:50] <asac> years?
[22:50] <rickspencer3> uh?
[22:50] <asac> it came to my attention only after ffox 3.5
[22:51] <rickspencer3> asac, as soon as we find someone to replace you, I'll assign the bug to them while they think I am still in charge
[22:51]  * micahg was going to try to fix the bug at some point...
[22:52] <asac> rickspencer3: heh. ok.
[22:52] <rickspencer3> micahg, please, by all means
[22:52] <asac> rickspencer3: anyway, that just needs to get done. and this change elevates the importance (its even on the planning wiki)
[22:52] <rickspencer3> yes
[22:52] <rickspencer3> thanks asac
[22:53] <sebner> asac: ok, you might be right but 3.5 is already pretty old too :P
[22:54] <asac> its there since karmic, yes.
[22:54]  * sebner uses lucid
[22:54] <sebner> so old ..
[22:54] <asac> maybe you ran the dailies ;)
[22:54] <asac> sebner: thats good. it means you will see the fix first ;)
[22:56] <sebner> asac: ;)
[22:56] <sebner> asac: I use -devel on my productive machine since ~gutsy I think
[23:00] <sebner> huhu ccheney :D
[23:00] <ccheney> sebner: hi, my power went out for a while :-\
[23:00] <sebner> ccheney: O_o, what a horror :\
[23:04] <ccheney> sebner: wasn't too long but it did manage to set off my smoke detectors, i found out one of them appears to be defective
[23:04] <ccheney> ~ 10 smoke detectors going off at the same time isn't very pleasant
[23:06] <sebner> O_o
[23:06] <sebner> I suppose so :)
[23:13] <sebner> rickspencer3: typo?
[23:13] <sebner> We
[23:13] <sebner> would certainly want to do anything to damage this relationship.
[23:13] <rickspencer3> yeah yeah
[23:14] <sebner> :)
[23:15] <ccheney> hey what happened to the daily bootcharts after jan 13?
[23:16] <ccheney> did it move somewhere else?
[23:16] <asac> bdrung: xul-ext-greasemonkey is broken with ffox 3.6
[23:16] <asac> actually it breaks firefox 3.6
[23:16] <ccheney> hmm just noticed he asked that in the wrong channel
[23:16] <asac> firefox only starts once
[23:17] <BUGabundo> ohh I just read
[23:17] <BUGabundo> we are now using yahoo ?!!?!
[23:17] <BUGabundo> WTH
[23:17] <BUGabundo> some one smack me a big one, I want to wake up
[23:18]  * BUGabundo and so it begins.... trolls coming :)
[23:18] <asac> bdrung: can you poke and see if there is anything missing in package that is in .xpi?
[23:18] <asac> .xpi seems to work
[23:18] <asac> i noticed that you just put the .xpi in the orig?
[23:19] <asac> why not use xpi-unpack?
[23:19] <asac> putting xpi in orig isnt nice for debdiffs ;)
[23:20] <BUGabundo> mew
[23:20] <BUGabundo> didn't even get a reply
[23:21] <asac> you didnt say anything ;)
[23:25] <asac> ccheney: so you said your last status on libsoup has duplicated symbols?
[23:25] <asac> with the libglib?
[23:25] <asac> on the system?
[23:25] <ccheney> yea
[23:25] <asac> or even inside libsoup
[23:25] <asac> ccheney: which symbols?
[23:25] <ccheney> GCancellable
[23:25] <asac> why do you need to add that?
[23:25] <ccheney> i think there were a few others
[23:26]  * ccheney is working on finishing the upload for OOo 3.2.0~rc3 since doko contacted him about it, then will be on that, assuming my power doesn't go out anymore today :(
[23:26] <asac> i mean if its already in glib then we can just use that GCancellable
[23:26] <asac> sure
[23:26] <asac> just want to help
[23:26] <ccheney> yea i think i would need to include the header for it
[23:26] <asac> right.
[23:26] <ccheney> seems to be the gio.h that i should be including?
[23:27] <ccheney> that was part of what i was talking about earlier
[23:27] <asac> gio.h feelslike its a high level header
[23:27] <rickspencer3> didn't this exact same conversation happen like 4 hours ago?
[23:27] <ccheney> at least when looking through some of the headers they have a way to cause it to fail out if you include them directly
[23:27] <asac> /usr/include/glib-2.0/gio/gio.h:#include <gio/gcancellable.h>
[23:27] <ccheney> rickspencer3: i thought so
[23:28] <sebner> BUGabundo: €€€€€€€€€€€€
[23:28] <asac> ccheney: yes, they usually prevent direct inclusion ... except from within glib code itself
[23:28] <BUGabundo> sebner: ahah
[23:28] <ccheney> asac: yea and including gio/gcancellable.h directly appears to cause it to bomb out
[23:28] <ccheney> asac: yea
[23:29] <ccheney> asac: so sounds like my plan to include gio.h should work then, i think that was what was happening by accident before
[23:29] <ccheney> i had stuck gio.h in glib-copy.h without remembering i had done it and then removed it :-\
[23:29] <asac> i really think its too much to include full gio
[23:30] <asac> you ried to set the constants?
[23:30] <asac> tried
[23:30] <asac> #if !defined (__GIO_GIO_H_INSIDE__) && !defined (GIO_COMPILATION)
[23:30] <ccheney> oh yea i suppose i could fake that part
[23:31] <sebner> asac: you really only need to answer with "€€€€€€€" when people are asking about the switch :P
[23:31] <BUGabundo> heeheh
[23:31] <BUGabundo> sebner: I bet, since I see non other
[23:32] <BUGabundo> but asac knows me well enough if we wants to explain the _oficial_ one one day :D
[23:32] <sebner> hahaha
[23:33] <asac> the discussion is on -devel for now ... i try to stay out of it as long as possible
[23:33] <asac> (mailing list)
[23:33] <asac> if you have particular questions, shoot though
[23:33] <ccheney> i'm sure it will be easily changeable to whatever you want, unlike what will probably happen with iPhoneOS 4.0 wrt Bing
[23:35] <rickspencer3> there are only two changes
[23:35] <rickspencer3> 1. search page will respect your search provider choice
[23:35] <rickspencer3> 2. default will be Yahoo!
[23:35] <rickspencer3> it's not really complex
[23:36] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:37] <BUGabundo> asac: I'm subed to most Ubuntu MLs. but no longer read them :\
[23:37] <BUGabundo> rickspencer3: as I hoped
[23:37] <BUGabundo> I'm not worried
[23:37] <ccheney> BUGabundo: so now you can set your default to Bing ;-)
[23:37] <BUGabundo> well then again, I use mostly Chormium now
[23:37] <rickspencer3> I don't think Mozilla shops Bing yet
[23:38] <BUGabundo> GET WAY GET AWAY ccheney
[23:38] <rickspencer3> lol
[23:38] <rickspencer3> thanks asac
[23:38] <asac> heh
[23:38] <BUGabundo> do ppl even read /TOPICs this days ?
[23:38] <ccheney> so does the yahoo change only affect lucid or the 3.6 backports as well?
[23:38] <asac> no ... but i can say: see /topic
[23:38] <asac> ;)
[23:39] <BUGabundo> aha
[23:39] <rickspencer3> I think that mozilla actually recommends bing over google for privacy reasons, but there wasn't enough user demand to ship the plugin or something
[23:39] <asac> ccheney: lucid only
[23:39] <BUGabundo> so direct question:
[23:39] <BUGabundo> asac: rickspencer3: Why ?
[23:39] <ccheney> asac: ok
[23:39] <asac> BUGabundo: why what?
[23:39] <rickspencer3> BUGabundo, why the change?
[23:39] <BUGabundo> why yahoo after google for so long ?
[23:39] <BUGabundo> and why at distro level
[23:39] <asac> read the mail
[23:39] <asac> in the topic
[23:39] <asac> ;)
[23:39] <BUGabundo> and not follow upstream
[23:39] <rickspencer3> because Yahoo! has offered to do a rev share with us
[23:40] <rickspencer3> "us" being Canonical, I suppose
[23:40] <BUGabundo> (11:33:33 PM) asac: if you have particular questions, shoot though
[23:40] <asac> yeah
[23:40] <rickspencer3> so basically, this will generate revenue for Ubuntu development
[23:40] <rickspencer3> but yeah, it's in the mail ;)
[23:40] <BUGabundo> rickspencer3: I know you know this: Canonical != Ubuntu
[23:40] <rickspencer3> right
[23:40] <rickspencer3> except that Canonical funds Ubuntu
[23:40] <BUGabundo> so partenesiph should be with the community
[23:41] <BUGabundo> yeah I know
[23:41] <sebner> rickspencer3: asac You should really write all the stuff down on a wiki page or something like that, repeating it over and over again is extremely weakeing
[23:41] <rickspencer3> 100+ developers that expect to be paid
[23:41] <rickspencer3> ;)
[23:41] <BUGabundo> we are discussing Angels Sex
[23:41] <rickspencer3> ?
[23:41] <BUGabundo> sebner: asac will do a blog post... some way along
[23:41] <sebner> +n
[23:41] <BUGabundo> and get 300 comments
[23:41] <rickspencer3> no
[23:41] <rickspencer3> asac nooooo
[23:41]  * sebner just read Angels Sex and is curious
[23:41] <rickspencer3> asac needs to work, not write blog posts :)
[23:41] <sebner> ROFL
[23:41] <BUGabundo> rickspencer3: common popular Portuguese saying
[23:42] <sebner> asac: haha, now that your boss is here you need to work hard!
[23:42] <rickspencer3> sebner, I am not asac's boss
[23:42] <rickspencer3> ;)
[23:42] <sebner> rickspencer3: in germany it's 00:42, mind that or asac will complain at the court :P
[23:42] <hggdh> actually, Angels sex sounds more like two (or more) angels banging it out
[23:42] <rickspencer3> hehe
[23:42]  * sebner is worried about the topic here :P
[23:42] <BUGabundo> if he was asac boss, when asac is telling is drunk partying, asac would be out of a job
[23:42]  * BUGabundo ducks
[23:43] <rickspencer3> ok
[23:43] <BUGabundo> hggdh: dirty mind
[23:43] <BUGabundo> not the "doing it"
[23:43] <sebner> rickspencer3: I thought you are desktop platform manager?
[23:43] <hggdh> :-)
[23:43] <bdrung> asac: the xpi in orig is not my fault. i prefer xpi-unpack for generating the source (like you). i did only the merge, but i do not use greasemonkey. so i am not the best person to search for the bug.
[23:43] <BUGabundo> but their actual fisiologic sex
[23:43] <rickspencer3> searching for Angels sex is generating some interesting results, btu I don't think they are what BUGabundo meant
[23:43] <BUGabundo> ahah
[23:43] <sebner> Copy&Paste
[23:43] <sebner> * sebner just read Angels Sex and is curious
[23:43] <hggdh> oh. Angel's Sex
[23:43] <sebner> * sebner just read Angels Sex and is curious
[23:43] <sebner> * sebner just read Angels Sex and is curious
[23:44] <sebner> ah wrong
[23:44] <sebner> * sebner is worried about the topic here :P
[23:44] <sebner> * sebner is worried about the topic here :P
[23:44] <sebner> * sebner is worried about the topic here :P
[23:44] <sebner> :P
[23:44] <BUGabundo> sebner: rickspencer3: means MOOT POINT,
[23:44] <rickspencer3> ok
[23:44] <ccheney> back on topic people, which is mozilla development :)
[23:44] <rickspencer3> that was not apparant from web searches ;)
[23:44] <rickspencer3> ok ccheney
[23:44]  * hggdh is now curious
[23:44] <sebner> rickspencer3: good that asac is not following the conversation or he'll never finish his work :P
[23:44] <asac> bdrung: damn ;) ... it was wortth a try
[23:44] <BUGabundo> I'm having more fun with the typo expansys marked Android Nexus One for 0,49€ LOLOL
[23:44] <sebner> haha
[23:44] <sebner> too late
[23:45]  * ccheney thinks asac should be sleeping by now
[23:45] <ccheney> maybe he is a robot
[23:45]  * sebner too
[23:45] <sebner> asac is a bot!
[23:45] <bdrung> asac: :) is the a new upstream release?
[23:45] <BUGabundo> rickspencer3: that's because you are using Yahoo.. try Google
[23:45] <asac> bdrung: the .xpi works somewhat
[23:45]  * BUGabundo DIES
[23:46] <asac> hmm. now i cant see the debdiff in launchpad becaus eof the xpi :)
[23:48] <sebner> rickspencer3: speaking about the money for paying the employees .. But we don't need to be afraid that this deal with yahoo is a cry for help and the 10 million dollar from the beginning are slowly disappearing completely?
[23:48] <rickspencer3> sebner, this is not a cry for help
[23:48] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:48] <sebner> good to know ^^
[23:49] <BUGabundo> 10 mil?
[23:49] <BUGabundo> that's nice to know
[23:49] <sebner> BUGabundo: well, Canonical was founded in 2004 with 10 mil of capital
[23:50] <BUGabundo> the domain alone is valued in 2M$ http://dndetails.com/ubuntu.com
[23:50] <BUGabundo> LOLOL http://dndetails.com/canonical.com is worthless
[23:50] <BUGabundo> _just_ 79k$
[23:51] <BUGabundo> identi.ca values more then both put together http://dndetails.com/identi.ca
[23:51] <BUGabundo> amazing
[23:55] <BUGabundo> lovely
[23:55] <BUGabundo> LOLOL RD @nixternal: FYI: !kubuntu won't be switching to !yahoo anytime soon - http://is.gd/77arf - Yahoo doesn't work in !konqueror