[09:56]  * vish sigh
[09:56] <wedderburn> whats up?
[09:56] <vish> damn lp locked me out just when i was about to update breather branding > https://launchpad.net/breathe-icon-set
[09:56] <vish> breathe*
[09:57] <wedderburn> not fun :\
[10:10] <wedderburn> vish: so is breath the defacto alternative icon set for ubuntu?
[10:10] <vish> wedderburn: nope
[10:11] <vish> wedderburn: its just a community icon set which can be installed from repos
[10:11] <wedderburn> ah my bad, thought it was included as a alternative theme
[10:22] <vish> mat_t: hi... Upstream wants a response regarding the ad-hoc icon in the network manager menu
[10:22] <mat_t> vish: k, what is the question exactly?
[10:23] <vish> mat_t: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504822
[10:23] <mat_t> thx, looking
[10:23] <vish> oops wrong bug
[10:23] <mat_t> ok, not looking :)
[10:24] <vish> mat_t: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607577
[10:25] <mat_t> thx :)
[10:25] <vish> np.. :)
[17:30] <thorwil> troy_s: hi! what happened to whatever you wanted to try based on my title page SVG?
[17:31] <troy_s> thorwil: I was just looking at something.
[17:32] <thorwil> troy_s: something strange happened. our proposal to continue with a team and a process working from goals over audience, tone, message towards actual design got accepted
[17:33] <troy_s> thorwil: That's terrific. Now the hard work starts - you have an obligation to _prove_ that the execution / output quality will yield better dividends than had that decision not been made.
[17:34] <troy_s> thorwil: I sincerely hope you guys can accomplish it.
[17:34] <troy_s> thorwil: And women maybe?
[17:34] <troy_s> thorwil: Made a really crap assumption there... sorry.
[17:36] <thorwil> troy_s: no. David Nel (made the footprint and laptop proposals) didn't reply. so the team is vish, wolter and yours truly
[17:36] <thorwil> troy_s: plus the guy responsible for LaTeX
[17:37] <troy_s> thorwil: ???
[17:37] <troy_s> thorwil: LaTeX? The guy generating the actual document output?
[17:38] <thorwil> troy_s: who already told me that its's very hard to impossible to realize grid alignment with latex (the default seems to be to work with flexible whitespace spread across the page)
[17:38] <thorwil> troy_s: yes, he's responsible for implementing the layout, font choices, typesetting
[17:39] <troy_s> thorwil: I can't comment. I do know that there are some _extremely_ high end typesetters that discuss the merits of LaTeX. I can't imagine for a second that you can't design something as critical as a grid with it. But again, I _cannot_ comment with any shred of authority.
[17:40] <troy_s> thorwil: I'd bet "grid latex" generates a few hits.
[17:40] <thorwil> troy_s: i intend to have word regarding page margins, but otherwise leave the field to him, basically
[17:40] <troy_s> thorwil: Just avoid opinion and use Bringhurst.
[17:40] <thorwil> troy_s: yes. discussions about it being hard to impossible ;)
[17:41] <troy_s> thorwil: The easiest choice is to concede to someone that knows far more about typesetting than anyone around these parts. ;)
[17:41] <troy_s> thorwil: And _anyone_ that questions that authority should probably give their heads a shake. Which is why it is a _deadly_ easy 'recipe'
[17:41] <troy_s> thorwil: Not the _only_ recipe, but it is hard to argue against Bringhurst with the experience level of the culture.
[17:42] <thorwil> yeah, though i'd like to avoid an argument from authority
[17:42] <troy_s> thorwil: That's the point. It is impossible to get into one.
[17:42] <troy_s> thorwil: It's like arguing with Dali about surrealism.
[17:43] <troy_s> thorwil: You _could_ but anyone with at least two braincells would easily spot how foolish you would look doing so.
[17:44] <troy_s> thorwil: The points are pretty clear: 1) Yes there are options. 2) Yes there are other presentations. 3) Yes there are no absolutist rules. 4) Knowing (1), (2), and (3) and guessing at the ability / experience of just about everyone this side of Tschichold, it is _damn_ hard to argue that Bringhurst's outlines / blueprints will deliver something _awful_.
[17:45] <troy_s> thorwil: It probably doesn't mean anything radical in practical terms anyways.
[17:45] <troy_s> thorwil: In fact, just the opposite.
[17:46] <troy_s> thorwil: The upside of LaTeX is that it _will_ allow you fine grained control over point size and leading.
[17:46] <troy_s> thorwil: Which many apps don't (helloooooo Inkscrape)
[17:46] <thorwil> yes, it has some very nice characteristics. just never was a complete solution for my own needs
[17:47]  * thorwil got into layout learning quarkxpress
[17:47] <troy_s> thorwil: Needs refine. Anyways, I _really_ hope the output goes smoothly.
[17:47] <troy_s> thorwil: You three _really_ need to aim for the fences and not strike out.
[17:48] <troy_s> thorwil: It is no easy task to not suck. Lol.
[17:52] <troy_s> thorwil: Start with the type. The typefaces on _all_ of those covers is simply nasty.
[17:52] <troy_s> thorwil: That is perhaps the biggest glaring 'Yikes'.
[17:56] <troy_s> thorwil: This might interest you - http://projects.blender.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=498&aid=20773&group_id=9
[17:56] <troy_s> thorwil: Tested it and it _works_. Simply _awesome_.
[17:57] <thorwil> troy_s: that link wants a login. tell me what to search for, instead
[17:57] <troy_s> thorwil: The projects site is logon only. It's a bug report.
[17:58] <troy_s> thorwil: Can't explain it... uh... let me render something very very quickly.
[17:58] <thorwil> troy_s: dinner time, back in 30 to 40 minutes
[18:06] <troy_s> thorwil: http://s3.amazonaws.com/GZips/thorwil0001_0096.dvd
[18:35] <thorwil> troy_s: what am i looking at, camera orientation dependent motion blur?
[18:35] <troy_s> No.
[18:35] <troy_s> thorwil: That is strictly in the 2D compositor
[18:36] <troy_s> thorwil: The origin of the directional blur off of a simple avi is animated along the x axis.
[18:36] <troy_s> thorwil: You can now animate _any_ variable.
[18:36] <troy_s> thorwil: Might be hard to wrap your head around. It is _extremely_ powerful.
[18:37] <thorwil> troy_s: yeah, 2.5 has to be awesome
[18:40] <thorwil> inkscape folks already talk about gsoc 2010
[18:40] <troy_s> thorwil: It's mind numbing.
[18:40] <troy_s> thorwil: Strictly for 2D animation
[18:41] <troy_s> thorwil: Blender slays.
[18:41] <troy_s> thorwil: The compositor is worth its weight in gold.
[18:41] <troy_s> thorwil: Or even static 2D imaging.
[18:41] <troy_s> thorwil: It really destroys every other tool we have.
[18:43] <thorwil> troy_s: how do you do lighting-independent 2d with gradients in blender?
[18:44] <troy_s> thorwil: Sorry... rephrase.
[18:44] <troy_s> thorwil: As in avoid the 3D?
[18:45] <thorwil> troy_s: yes, if you use blender for 2d animation, how to handle color fills?
[18:45] <troy_s> thorwil: Well technically you can still define shapes (ala Inkscape) via the 3D interface - just lock yourself into 2D.
[18:45] <troy_s> thorwil: If you use an orthagonal camera, everything behaves as expected. Materials just set to 'emit' as opposed to using a light.
[18:45] <thorwil> that part is clear
[18:45] <troy_s> thorwil: Make sense?
[18:46] <thorwil> still open how one would do a gradient fill on a 2d surface
[18:48] <troy_s> thorwil: Oh you mean a literal fill on a surface. Haven't tried. Not sure you can specify it. That is the domain of a deep colour image editor... Oh wait... we don't have any. Krita maybe?
[18:50] <thorwil> last time i tried krita i dropped it because it wouldn't give me a gradient fill without creating a preset :)
[18:52] <thorwil> so things i want regarding bitmap editing are spread across gimp, krita and mypaint, currently.
[18:54] <troy_s> thorwil: Not really
[18:54] <troy_s> thorwil: Remember, you can't get say, deep colour and use any other tool that doesn't support it.
[18:55] <troy_s> thorwil: So GIMP is crippled, Inkscape is crippled etc.
[18:55] <troy_s> thorwil: It is a one way path of loss... like going to MP3.
[18:55] <troy_s> thorwil: Not relevant for those that don't do any manipulation as you are always trapped in the 24 bit domain regardless for output... but for manipulations it is devastating.