[09:56] * vish sigh [09:56] whats up? [09:56] damn lp locked me out just when i was about to update breather branding > https://launchpad.net/breathe-icon-set [09:56] breathe* [09:57] not fun :\ [10:10] vish: so is breath the defacto alternative icon set for ubuntu? [10:10] wedderburn: nope [10:11] wedderburn: its just a community icon set which can be installed from repos [10:11] ah my bad, thought it was included as a alternative theme [10:22] mat_t: hi... Upstream wants a response regarding the ad-hoc icon in the network manager menu [10:22] vish: k, what is the question exactly? [10:23] mat_t: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504822 [10:23] Gnome bug 504822 in nm-applet "Get better icons (larger, better styled, etc)" [Enhancement,New] [10:23] thx, looking [10:23] oops wrong bug [10:23] ok, not looking :) [10:24] mat_t: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607577 [10:24] Gnome bug 607577 in nm-applet "[enh] better adhoc icon" [Enhancement,Needinfo] [10:25] thx :) [10:25] np.. :) === chaotic_ is now known as chaotic [17:30] troy_s: hi! what happened to whatever you wanted to try based on my title page SVG? [17:31] thorwil: I was just looking at something. [17:32] troy_s: something strange happened. our proposal to continue with a team and a process working from goals over audience, tone, message towards actual design got accepted [17:33] thorwil: That's terrific. Now the hard work starts - you have an obligation to _prove_ that the execution / output quality will yield better dividends than had that decision not been made. [17:34] thorwil: I sincerely hope you guys can accomplish it. [17:34] thorwil: And women maybe? [17:34] thorwil: Made a really crap assumption there... sorry. [17:36] troy_s: no. David Nel (made the footprint and laptop proposals) didn't reply. so the team is vish, wolter and yours truly [17:36] troy_s: plus the guy responsible for LaTeX [17:37] thorwil: ??? [17:37] thorwil: LaTeX? The guy generating the actual document output? [17:38] troy_s: who already told me that its's very hard to impossible to realize grid alignment with latex (the default seems to be to work with flexible whitespace spread across the page) [17:38] troy_s: yes, he's responsible for implementing the layout, font choices, typesetting [17:39] thorwil: I can't comment. I do know that there are some _extremely_ high end typesetters that discuss the merits of LaTeX. I can't imagine for a second that you can't design something as critical as a grid with it. But again, I _cannot_ comment with any shred of authority. [17:40] thorwil: I'd bet "grid latex" generates a few hits. [17:40] troy_s: i intend to have word regarding page margins, but otherwise leave the field to him, basically [17:40] thorwil: Just avoid opinion and use Bringhurst. [17:40] troy_s: yes. discussions about it being hard to impossible ;) [17:41] thorwil: The easiest choice is to concede to someone that knows far more about typesetting than anyone around these parts. ;) [17:41] thorwil: And _anyone_ that questions that authority should probably give their heads a shake. Which is why it is a _deadly_ easy 'recipe' [17:41] thorwil: Not the _only_ recipe, but it is hard to argue against Bringhurst with the experience level of the culture. [17:42] yeah, though i'd like to avoid an argument from authority [17:42] thorwil: That's the point. It is impossible to get into one. [17:42] thorwil: It's like arguing with Dali about surrealism. [17:43] thorwil: You _could_ but anyone with at least two braincells would easily spot how foolish you would look doing so. [17:44] thorwil: The points are pretty clear: 1) Yes there are options. 2) Yes there are other presentations. 3) Yes there are no absolutist rules. 4) Knowing (1), (2), and (3) and guessing at the ability / experience of just about everyone this side of Tschichold, it is _damn_ hard to argue that Bringhurst's outlines / blueprints will deliver something _awful_. [17:45] thorwil: It probably doesn't mean anything radical in practical terms anyways. [17:45] thorwil: In fact, just the opposite. [17:46] thorwil: The upside of LaTeX is that it _will_ allow you fine grained control over point size and leading. [17:46] thorwil: Which many apps don't (helloooooo Inkscrape) [17:46] yes, it has some very nice characteristics. just never was a complete solution for my own needs [17:47] * thorwil got into layout learning quarkxpress [17:47] thorwil: Needs refine. Anyways, I _really_ hope the output goes smoothly. [17:47] thorwil: You three _really_ need to aim for the fences and not strike out. [17:48] thorwil: It is no easy task to not suck. Lol. [17:52] thorwil: Start with the type. The typefaces on _all_ of those covers is simply nasty. [17:52] thorwil: That is perhaps the biggest glaring 'Yikes'. [17:56] thorwil: This might interest you - http://projects.blender.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=498&aid=20773&group_id=9 [17:56] thorwil: Tested it and it _works_. Simply _awesome_. [17:57] troy_s: that link wants a login. tell me what to search for, instead [17:57] thorwil: The projects site is logon only. It's a bug report. [17:58] thorwil: Can't explain it... uh... let me render something very very quickly. [17:58] troy_s: dinner time, back in 30 to 40 minutes [18:06] thorwil: http://s3.amazonaws.com/GZips/thorwil0001_0096.dvd [18:35] troy_s: what am i looking at, camera orientation dependent motion blur? [18:35] No. [18:35] thorwil: That is strictly in the 2D compositor [18:36] thorwil: The origin of the directional blur off of a simple avi is animated along the x axis. [18:36] thorwil: You can now animate _any_ variable. [18:36] thorwil: Might be hard to wrap your head around. It is _extremely_ powerful. [18:37] troy_s: yeah, 2.5 has to be awesome [18:40] inkscape folks already talk about gsoc 2010 [18:40] thorwil: It's mind numbing. [18:40] thorwil: Strictly for 2D animation [18:41] thorwil: Blender slays. [18:41] thorwil: The compositor is worth its weight in gold. [18:41] thorwil: Or even static 2D imaging. [18:41] thorwil: It really destroys every other tool we have. [18:43] troy_s: how do you do lighting-independent 2d with gradients in blender? [18:44] thorwil: Sorry... rephrase. [18:44] thorwil: As in avoid the 3D? [18:45] troy_s: yes, if you use blender for 2d animation, how to handle color fills? [18:45] thorwil: Well technically you can still define shapes (ala Inkscape) via the 3D interface - just lock yourself into 2D. [18:45] thorwil: If you use an orthagonal camera, everything behaves as expected. Materials just set to 'emit' as opposed to using a light. [18:45] that part is clear [18:45] thorwil: Make sense? [18:46] still open how one would do a gradient fill on a 2d surface [18:48] thorwil: Oh you mean a literal fill on a surface. Haven't tried. Not sure you can specify it. That is the domain of a deep colour image editor... Oh wait... we don't have any. Krita maybe? [18:50] last time i tried krita i dropped it because it wouldn't give me a gradient fill without creating a preset :) [18:52] so things i want regarding bitmap editing are spread across gimp, krita and mypaint, currently. [18:54] thorwil: Not really [18:54] thorwil: Remember, you can't get say, deep colour and use any other tool that doesn't support it. [18:55] thorwil: So GIMP is crippled, Inkscape is crippled etc. [18:55] thorwil: It is a one way path of loss... like going to MP3. [18:55] thorwil: Not relevant for those that don't do any manipulation as you are always trapped in the 24 bit domain regardless for output... but for manipulations it is devastating.