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doctormo_Does anyone know if mpt is usually on irc?15:54
ivankadoctormo_: he is. he is on holiday now though16:00
ivankadoctormo_: hi!16:00
ivankadoctormo_: anything I can help with?16:01
doctormo_ivanka: Only if you would like to help :-)16:02
doctormo_Him being on holiday explains his brief comment on my blog, then. I hope he's having a good time.16:02
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ivankadoctormo_: depends what it is you want help with :-)16:03
doctormoivanka: So did you see the demonstration video yesterday on my blog? http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/ground-control-demonstration/16:03
doctormoivanka: I'm thinking of removing the extended non-bold descriptions and just having the bold parts. Your thoughts?16:04
ivankahang on - not seen it16:04
ivankaI have a call at 4.30 (in 20 minutes) have I got time to watch and comment before then?16:05
doctormoivanka: yes, it's 9mins16:05
ivankadoctormo: (only at 1.41) quick question: how did you record your demo?16:09
* ivanka goes back to the video16:09
doctormoivanka: gtk-mydesktop + cheese16:09
ivankadoctormo: did you find it slows down your machine?16:09
doctormoIt wasn't apparent at the time, but there are parts in the recording where you can see the machine was working hard.16:10
ivankadoctormo: ok, just curious16:18
ivankadoctormo: have thoughts, well actually, questions - call starting now though16:32
ivankadoctormo: nice demo!16:32
doctormoivanka: thanks, I'm looking forward to hearing you rthoughts16:32
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ivankadoctormo: hi again. Who is your target audience for this?17:10
doctormoivanka: Course writers, none technical people.17:10
ivankadoctormo: I should install it so I get a better sense of the full experience17:11
doctormoivanka: Sure, I'm trying to make it better now, I'm figuring out where to put the more verbose descriptions of the bars.17:14
ivankadoctormo: is there a particular reason why you are focussing on that?17:38
ivankadoctormo: you there?18:07
doctormoSorry, went for lunch18:13
ivanka1doctormo: hi21:10
doctormohey ivanka121:10
doctormoivanka1: I went to lunch before, sorry21:10
ivanka1hmm - wonder why I am ivanka121:11
ivanka1that's ok - I have installed Ground Control21:11
ivanka1I like your big buttons21:11
ivanka1doctormo: I have some feedback21:13
ivanka1doctormo: did you get round to answering why you focussed on those labels? have you had specific feedback?21:14
doctormoivanka1: It's a technical issue, if the descriptions are too big and the window too small, then the text is cropped, which isn't desirable.21:14
ivanka1doctormo: 1) Simple thing: My launchpad is authenticated, I see my picture and the buttons offer me <logoff> or <close>. Both seem like negative actions. Can the be an obvious 'Get going with ground control' type thing?21:16
ivanka1I mean 'can there' not 'can the'21:16
ivanka1doctormo: btw, I am on the train so, if I disappear, forgive me, I will have to catch you another day21:17
ivanka1doctormo: ah, technical issues are annoying. Can the text not wrap?21:17
doctormoivanka1: It can only wrap 2/3 fixed position which doesn't respond to window resizes.21:18
ivanka1doctormo: ok...am thinking about it. 21:19
ivanka1doctormo: any thoughts on the <logoff><close>21:19
doctormoivanka1: So, I have the choice of using an gnome label and replace gtk-close with gtk-ok, gtk-next or gtk-refresh. Or use my own custom label for the button.21:19
ivanka1doctormo: what about 'start' as a custom label?21:20
ivanka1doctormo: gtk-next might be ok too21:20
doctormoivanka1: We also have gtk-forward and gtk-apply which might work too.21:22
doctormoThe advantage is that a standard label will be translated into every language gnome is.21:22
ivanka1doctormo: yes - anything which reflects a positive action21:22
ivanka1doctormo: that is a worthwhile advantage21:22
doctormoOK, fixed to gtk-apply21:23
ivanka1doctormo: cool.21:23
ivanka1doctormo: now, remembering that I don't have a ppa but I do have a launchpad account21:24
ivanka1doctormo: I don't get past that screen21:24
ivanka1ivanka1: it is up to you to decide how you want to handle a user like me21:25
ivanka1doctormo: oops - I am a bit tired21:25
ivanka1doctormo:  it is up to you to decide how you want to handle a user like me21:25
ivanka1doctormo: 1st question: is this designed behaviour, 2nd if not, what do you want my next step to be21:26
ivanka1doctormo: am I describing the scenario well enough?21:27
doctormoivanka1: Did you type in your username and password and are you using lucid?21:27
doctormoThere is a known problem with lucid that I've fixed but the update will come through tonight.21:28
ivanka1doctormo: yes to first, my identity is confirmed back to me with a picture (nice touch btw) and no to the second, not on this machine21:28
doctormoivanka1: Ah ok, so your confirmed as a user, good. I think I'm confused as to what your describing yourself as. You don't need a PPA to use the program.21:29
ivanka1doctormo: I was just trying to give you all the facts to help you understand what is happening :-)21:30
doctormoivanka1: OK I think the bit I'm missing is what screen your stuck on.21:31
ivanka1doctormo: I am glad a ppa isn't required. now that is understood - what should happen next?21:33
doctormoivanka1: You press close?21:33
doctormoivanka1: I take it you went to the program via Applications > Accessories > Launchpad Account menu item?21:33
ivanka1doctormo: yes - then nothing happens and Ground Control disappears.21:33
ivanka1doctormo: yes21:34
doctormoAh right21:34
doctormoSo open up your Home folder21:34
doctormoAnd make a directory called 'Projects'21:34
ivanka1doctormo: done21:36
ivanka1doctormo: now have found projects and see the label21:36
ivanka1doctormo: maybe we should think about a 'first use' scenario?21:36
doctormoivanka1: Yes, it's designed to be installed and for people to have a Projects directory already and to navigate to it without having to go to the Launchpad Account menu item you used.21:37
doctormoBut it's a good point that there isn't an obvious reason to expect that.21:37
ivanka1doctormo: well, I already have a projects folder21:38
ivanka1doctormo: this is why I asked who it is for - I got the impression from the blog post that it was for newbies21:38
doctormoivanka1: Well it is, it will make a projects folder if you don't have one.21:38
doctormoAnd the banner at first has a button which goes to the configuration.21:39
ivanka1doctormo: I see.21:39
ivanka1doctormo: I think a scenario which covers discovery and first use would be useful to us21:40
ivanka1doctormo: going back to your original question. Can you expand the label on the button itself?21:44
ivanka1doctormo: does that help with the text wrapping? 21:45
doctormoivanka1: You mean make the label on the button more verbose than it is at the moment?21:45
ivanka1doctormo: Is there a technical limitation?21:47
ivanka1doctormo: also, can the labels be dynamic?21:47
doctormoivanka1: There is no technical limit on the label in the button, it should even wrap.21:48
doctormoivanka1: I'm not sure what dynamic labels are.21:48
ivanka1doctormo: by dynamic I mean, for ground control project, could the button label be <Load Ground Control Code>?21:49
doctormoSure, it can be anything, but how is that meaningful to the user?21:50
doctormoSince the button is already generated depending on the context of the situation.21:50
ivanka1doctormo: I am just trying to think through what the user would gain by the labels you have being removed21:51
ivanka1doctormo: and exploring why you had them in the first place - what would they lose21:51
ivanka1doctormo: and, considering the technical limitations, is there a different way of creating the same effect21:51
ivanka1doctormo: make sense?21:51
doctormoivanka1: I think we could have a small 'icon' help button which explains the current context.21:52
ivanka1doctormo: am worried my train will arrive in a sec - am trying to make sense but be fast :-)21:52
doctormoivanka1: I think we can pick this up later, you've given me food for thought.21:53
doctormoivanka1: but keep playing with it21:53
doctormoThanks for your help :-)21:53
ivanka1doctormo: np21:54
ivanka1doctormo: I think it is nice if help can be incorporated in the interface21:54
ivanka1doctormo: in tests I have observed that people click help as a last resort21:55
doctormoYes, something ubuntu-docs team is fustrated with21:55
ivanka1doctormo: hmm21:57
ivanka1doctormo: right train approaching last stop21:57
ivanka1doctormo: will keep playing and keep you posted21:57
ivanka1doctormo: night!21:57
doctormothanks again21:58

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