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[15:54] <doctormo_> Does anyone know if mpt is usually on irc?
[16:00] <ivanka> doctormo_: he is. he is on holiday now though
[16:00] <ivanka> doctormo_: hi!
[16:01] <ivanka> doctormo_: anything I can help with?
[16:02] <doctormo_> ivanka: Only if you would like to help :-)
[16:02] <doctormo_> Him being on holiday explains his brief comment on my blog, then. I hope he's having a good time.
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[16:03] <ivanka> doctormo_: depends what it is you want help with :-)
[16:03] <doctormo> ivanka: So did you see the demonstration video yesterday on my blog? http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/ground-control-demonstration/
[16:04] <doctormo> ivanka: I'm thinking of removing the extended non-bold descriptions and just having the bold parts. Your thoughts?
[16:04] <ivanka> hang on - not seen it
[16:05] <ivanka> I have a call at 4.30 (in 20 minutes) have I got time to watch and comment before then?
[16:05] <doctormo> ivanka: yes, it's 9mins
[16:09] <ivanka> doctormo: (only at 1.41) quick question: how did you record your demo?
[16:09]  * ivanka goes back to the video
[16:09] <doctormo> ivanka: gtk-mydesktop + cheese
[16:09] <doctormo> gtk-recordmydesktop*
[16:09] <ivanka> doctormo: did you find it slows down your machine?
[16:10] <doctormo> It wasn't apparent at the time, but there are parts in the recording where you can see the machine was working hard.
[16:18] <ivanka> doctormo: ok, just curious
[16:32] <ivanka> doctormo: have thoughts, well actually, questions - call starting now though
[16:32] <doctormo> ok
[16:32] <ivanka> doctormo: nice demo!
[16:32] <doctormo> ivanka: thanks, I'm looking forward to hearing you rthoughts
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[17:10] <ivanka> doctormo: hi again. Who is your target audience for this?
[17:10] <doctormo> ivanka: Course writers, none technical people.
[17:11] <ivanka> doctormo: I should install it so I get a better sense of the full experience
[17:14] <doctormo> ivanka: Sure, I'm trying to make it better now, I'm figuring out where to put the more verbose descriptions of the bars.
[17:38] <ivanka> doctormo: is there a particular reason why you are focussing on that?
[18:07] <ivanka> doctormo: you there?
[18:13] <doctormo> Sorry, went for lunch
[21:10] <ivanka1> doctormo: hi
[21:10] <doctormo> hey ivanka1
[21:10] <doctormo> ivanka1: I went to lunch before, sorry
[21:11] <ivanka1> hmm - wonder why I am ivanka1
[21:11] <ivanka1> anyway
[21:11] <ivanka1> that's ok - I have installed Ground Control
[21:11] <ivanka1> I like your big buttons
[21:13] <ivanka1> doctormo: I have some feedback
[21:13] <doctormo> great
[21:14] <ivanka1> doctormo: did you get round to answering why you focussed on those labels? have you had specific feedback?
[21:14] <doctormo> ivanka1: It's a technical issue, if the descriptions are too big and the window too small, then the text is cropped, which isn't desirable.
[21:16] <ivanka1> doctormo: 1) Simple thing: My launchpad is authenticated, I see my picture and the buttons offer me <logoff> or <close>. Both seem like negative actions. Can the be an obvious 'Get going with ground control' type thing?
[21:16] <ivanka1> I mean 'can there' not 'can the'
[21:17] <ivanka1> doctormo: btw, I am on the train so, if I disappear, forgive me, I will have to catch you another day
[21:17] <ivanka1> doctormo: ah, technical issues are annoying. Can the text not wrap?
[21:18] <doctormo> ivanka1: It can only wrap 2/3 fixed position which doesn't respond to window resizes.
[21:19] <ivanka1> doctormo: ok...am thinking about it. 
[21:19] <ivanka1> doctormo: any thoughts on the <logoff><close>
[21:19] <doctormo> ivanka1: So, I have the choice of using an gnome label and replace gtk-close with gtk-ok, gtk-next or gtk-refresh. Or use my own custom label for the button.
[21:20] <ivanka1> doctormo: what about 'start' as a custom label?
[21:20] <ivanka1> doctormo: gtk-next might be ok too
[21:22] <doctormo> ivanka1: We also have gtk-forward and gtk-apply which might work too.
[21:22] <doctormo> The advantage is that a standard label will be translated into every language gnome is.
[21:22] <ivanka1> doctormo: yes - anything which reflects a positive action
[21:22] <ivanka1> doctormo: that is a worthwhile advantage
[21:23] <doctormo> OK, fixed to gtk-apply
[21:23] <ivanka1> doctormo: cool.
[21:24] <ivanka1> doctormo: now, remembering that I don't have a ppa but I do have a launchpad account
[21:24] <ivanka1> doctormo: I don't get past that screen
[21:25] <ivanka1> ivanka1: it is up to you to decide how you want to handle a user like me
[21:25] <ivanka1> doctormo: oops - I am a bit tired
[21:25] <ivanka1> doctormo:  it is up to you to decide how you want to handle a user like me
[21:26] <ivanka1> doctormo: 1st question: is this designed behaviour, 2nd if not, what do you want my next step to be
[21:27] <ivanka1> doctormo: am I describing the scenario well enough?
[21:27] <doctormo> ivanka1: Did you type in your username and password and are you using lucid?
[21:28] <doctormo> There is a known problem with lucid that I've fixed but the update will come through tonight.
[21:28] <ivanka1> doctormo: yes to first, my identity is confirmed back to me with a picture (nice touch btw) and no to the second, not on this machine
[21:29] <doctormo> ivanka1: Ah ok, so your confirmed as a user, good. I think I'm confused as to what your describing yourself as. You don't need a PPA to use the program.
[21:30] <ivanka1> doctormo: I was just trying to give you all the facts to help you understand what is happening :-)
[21:31] <doctormo> ivanka1: OK I think the bit I'm missing is what screen your stuck on.
[21:33] <ivanka1> doctormo: I am glad a ppa isn't required. now that is understood - what should happen next?
[21:33] <doctormo> ivanka1: You press close?
[21:33] <doctormo> ivanka1: I take it you went to the program via Applications > Accessories > Launchpad Account menu item?
[21:33] <ivanka1> doctormo: yes - then nothing happens and Ground Control disappears.
[21:34] <ivanka1> doctormo: yes
[21:34] <doctormo> Ah right
[21:34] <doctormo> So open up your Home folder
[21:34] <doctormo> And make a directory called 'Projects'
[21:36] <ivanka1> doctormo: done
[21:36] <ivanka1> doctormo: now have found projects and see the label
[21:36] <ivanka1> doctormo: maybe we should think about a 'first use' scenario?
[21:37] <doctormo> ivanka1: Yes, it's designed to be installed and for people to have a Projects directory already and to navigate to it without having to go to the Launchpad Account menu item you used.
[21:37] <doctormo> But it's a good point that there isn't an obvious reason to expect that.
[21:38] <ivanka1> doctormo: well, I already have a projects folder
[21:38] <ivanka1> doctormo: this is why I asked who it is for - I got the impression from the blog post that it was for newbies
[21:38] <doctormo> ivanka1: Well it is, it will make a projects folder if you don't have one.
[21:39] <doctormo> And the banner at first has a button which goes to the configuration.
[21:39] <ivanka1> doctormo: I see.
[21:40] <ivanka1> doctormo: I think a scenario which covers discovery and first use would be useful to us
[21:44] <ivanka1> doctormo: going back to your original question. Can you expand the label on the button itself?
[21:45] <ivanka1> doctormo: does that help with the text wrapping? 
[21:45] <doctormo> ivanka1: You mean make the label on the button more verbose than it is at the moment?
[21:47] <ivanka1> doctormo: Is there a technical limitation?
[21:47] <ivanka1> doctormo: also, can the labels be dynamic?
[21:48] <doctormo> ivanka1: There is no technical limit on the label in the button, it should even wrap.
[21:48] <doctormo> ivanka1: I'm not sure what dynamic labels are.
[21:49] <ivanka1> doctormo: by dynamic I mean, for ground control project, could the button label be <Load Ground Control Code>?
[21:50] <doctormo> Sure, it can be anything, but how is that meaningful to the user?
[21:50] <doctormo> Since the button is already generated depending on the context of the situation.
[21:51] <ivanka1> doctormo: I am just trying to think through what the user would gain by the labels you have being removed
[21:51] <ivanka1> doctormo: and exploring why you had them in the first place - what would they lose
[21:51] <ivanka1> doctormo: and, considering the technical limitations, is there a different way of creating the same effect
[21:51] <ivanka1> doctormo: make sense?
[21:52] <doctormo> ivanka1: I think we could have a small 'icon' help button which explains the current context.
[21:52] <ivanka1> doctormo: am worried my train will arrive in a sec - am trying to make sense but be fast :-)
[21:53] <doctormo> ivanka1: I think we can pick this up later, you've given me food for thought.
[21:53] <doctormo> ivanka1: but keep playing with it
[21:53] <doctormo> Thanks for your help :-)
[21:54] <ivanka1> doctormo: np
[21:54] <ivanka1> doctormo: I think it is nice if help can be incorporated in the interface
[21:55] <ivanka1> doctormo: in tests I have observed that people click help as a last resort
[21:55] <doctormo> Yes, something ubuntu-docs team is fustrated with
[21:57] <ivanka1> doctormo: hmm
[21:57] <ivanka1> doctormo: right train approaching last stop
[21:57] <ivanka1> doctormo: will keep playing and keep you posted
[21:57] <ivanka1> doctormo: night!
[21:58] <doctormo> night
[21:58] <doctormo> thanks again