* humphreybc has just finished editing a bzr "howto" video00:43
pleia2humphreybc: have you seen ground control?00:44
humphreybcsure have00:44
humphreybci'm helping martin out with it00:44
pleia2cool cool :)00:44
humphreybci'm going to make a video of that soon00:44
humphreybci really need a proper microphone because my in built laptop one is crap00:45
humphreybcI think i'll go into town tomorrow and buy a proper microphone then I'll record a ground control demonstration00:56
godbykWell, this is a bit vexing:01:20
godbykTo handle translations in all the languages we want, the best solution is to use XeLaTeX and the polyglossia package (successor to babel).01:20
godbykUnfortunately, this requires a newer version of XeLaTeX than what Ubuntu currently ships with.01:21
godbykI think what I'll do is design the .cls file to handle two case: 1. the standard English case which can be compiled with pdfLaTeX (as it is now), and 2. a version for all the translations that compiles with XeLaTeX.01:21
godbykThat way authors can continue to write the English text using the Ubuntu versions of pdfLaTeX, and people who want to compile the translations can jump through the extra hoops up installing the latest version of XeLaTeX.01:22
humphreybcSounds like a good workaround02:03
godbykGah.. now I'm trying to merge the main branch and mine. (learning bzr on the fly)02:07
* humphreybc for anyone new to the project that doesn't know how to use bzr, point them at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ2VLcBFqBE02:09
humphreybcThat is, until I make a new video using Ground Control02:09
humphreybc(which will happen in the next day or so when I buy a proper microphone)02:10
godbykI hope that merge didn't break anything.  Can you test it for me, humphreybc?02:16
humphreybcgodbyk: it's making fine, you've changed contents to blue font?02:22
godbykthe hyperlinks are colored now, yeah.02:22
godbykcolors are apt to change when we setting on a color scheme.02:22
humphreybccool beans02:22
godbykHey, koogee.05:15
godbykAre you still having problems compiling the manual?05:15
godbykIf so, you might go to the pkgs/ dir (in the ubuntu-manual repository) and run the install-pkgs.sh script.05:15
godbykThat'll make sure you have all the required Ubuntu and LaTeX packages installed.05:15
koogeei've already run the script...all packages are installed05:16
koogeeit doesn't compile05:16
godbykkoogee: Okay.  Can you run 'make clean', then edit the main.tex file, change the first line to \documentclass[debug]{ubuntu-manual}, save, and then run 'make' again?05:18
godbykif it fails to compile, then give me the log file and I'll take another look.05:18
koogeefails to compile, here's the log: http://pastebin.com/m9fcb71405:22
godbykLooks like it's having problems with the Palatino font.05:25
godbykCan you run "sudo apt-get install texlive-fonts-recommended" for me?05:25
godbykIf it says the package is already installed, then run: sudo apt-get --reinstall install texlive-fonts-recommended05:26
koogeeinstalling the package...then run make clean, make again?05:27
godbykkoogee: yep05:28
koogeecompiles! thanks a bunch, godbyk!05:33
koogeeOops...i did a bzr pull after the successful compile...and made some text changes and ran 'make' again...it collapsed again: http://pastebin.com/m7f419cd605:45
godbykkoogee: ah, one sec.. there's another ubuntu package for that05:53
godbyk(I just added that stuff recently)05:54
godbykkoogee: sudo apt-get install texlive-xetex05:54
koogeeI thought I had done something :) ...installing...05:58
koogeecompiles successfully. Thank you again.05:59
godbykkoogee: nope, that's my fault. I've been working on getting the translated manuals to compile and haven't got it all cleaned up nicely yet.05:59
koogeeI'm going to commit some paragraphs...its my first commit...any pointers...stuff i should watch out for...? :)06:00
godbykkoogee: I would to a 'bzr pull' just before you 'bzr commit'.. just to make sure there aren't any conflicts.06:04
godbykthen after you've committed, you can run 'bzr push' to upload the changes to the rest of us.06:04
godbykwhen you do a bzr push, it may say it doesn't know where to push it to, so the first time you'll have to say 'bzr push lp:ubuntu-manual' but after that, 'bzr push' should just work.06:05
godbykif you have problems, feel free to holler.06:05
IlyaHaykinsonkoogee: just sent you an email; didn't mean to delay committing your code07:02
IlyaHaykinsoner, not code -- section07:02
godbykI think I've got a good start on the translation stuff.08:15
godbykI can run 'make ubuntu-manual-<LANG>.pdf' and it'll compile a PDF in that language.08:15
godbyk(with about a dozen caveats)08:16
godbykHey, thorwil.  I just uploaded a bunch of stuff to handle translations.  (Hope I didn't break anything in the process!)08:41
thorwilgodbyk: hi. can you already make a list of fonts that *might* be used at least for the english version?08:44
godbykFor the English version, it's pretty much wide open.08:44
thorwilwe definitively have to try Gentium08:47
godbykthorwil: I was looking at Gentium for some of the translations, since it's supposed to support more languages, but the LaTeX language stuff didn't like it too much because it was just a TTF and not an OTF (so it couldn't see what scripts Gentium actually supported).08:48
godbykthorwil: Actually it looks like it just didn't like Gentium with the Greek script.08:49
godbykThe Gentium TTF files claim to currently support Latin, Cyrillic, IPA, and maybe Vietnamese scripts.08:50
thorwilodd that OTF would help regarding language support, but that SIL would only offer TTF08:52
godbykYeah, they said that they'll be converting things to OTF and some other odd format sometime.08:53
godbykI think it was only complaining about the combination of Gentium and Greek.08:53
godbyk(Since the Gentium TTFs don't claim to support Greek.)08:54
=== IlyaHaykinson1 is now known as IlyaHaykinson_
IlyaHaykinson_i remember that someone had signed up to do Chapter 2(around your desktop)17:42
IlyaHaykinson_but don't remember who :)  anyone else remember?17:42
ringhi ilya18:22
IlyaHaykinson_hi ring18:26
ringthe meeting is on 2am local here in Dhaka18:43
ringwhat will be yours?18:43
ringwhat r u doing now?18:44
ringI am translating the manual in Bengali18:44
IlyaHaykinson_it's about time for me to go to work actually :)18:51
wolterhi all19:28
ringI am waiting for the meeting eagerly because it is 1:30AM now19:29
wolterring, its tomorrow you know right?19:32
wolteri mean, we are missing 24 hours and 28 minutes19:32
ringThanx for the notification19:35
ringGoing to sleep bro19:36
ringthanx wolter19:36
wolterno problem19:36
ringwhere r u from?19:37
woltercentral america19:37
ringme from Dhaka19:37
wolteroh, let me google that :)19:37
wolteris it india?19:37
ringwhat r u doing?19:37
wolterjust woke up some time ago19:38
wolterwas listening some good quality music19:38
ringno it's in Bangladesh19:38
ringIt is the capital of BD19:38
wolteroh yeah, i just found out19:38
wolteri remember now, in high school i new that19:38
ringr u an IT Professional?19:39
wolterhaha, i just graduated from school last year19:40
ringwhere r u living?19:40
wolterin central america19:41
ringgraduation paper?19:41
ringcity please19:42
wolterok dude you're scaring me now19:43
ringwhy and how?19:43
wolterall these questions... its overwhelming19:43
wolteri'm thinking like next thing you'll as my coordinates and send me a missile or something19:44
wolterdont worry19:44
ringi just want to know about the place of your living19:44
wolterwell, its tropical19:45
ringthat's not possible19:45
wolterwhat? it is tropical19:45
ringbecause BD is against the Nuclear Weapons19:46
ringwhat is your full name19:47
wolteranyway, it was just an expression19:47
wolterthat's not helping you know...19:47
wolteryour pulling my leg. i will reply no mor19:47
ringif u r annoyed by my questions then I'm sorry19:49
ringI have just the curiosity about you and your locality19:50
ringbut i could be my fault not to present my self in the right formation19:51
ringsorry if u r bored from me19:51
ringhope to see u in meeting next day19:52
ringthanx again19:52
wolteryeah, thats what i say hah19:54
wolteranyway, afk19:56
godbykApparently I just missed the interrogation. :-)20:25
c7phello everyone20:27
c7pGodbyk are you available?20:27
godbykc7p: Just taking off for lunch.  I'll be back after a bit.20:27
godbykc7p: Feel free to leave messages or email me <godbyk@gmail.com> if you have questions I can help with, though.20:28
dutchiegodbyk: Sveikas20:29
dutchie(Lithuanian for hello)20:29
c7pwell i've received a message "[Ubuntu-manual] Compiling translated PDFs" and i'm interested in compiling my language's pdf. When i type20:32
c7p sudo apt-get remove texlive-* i get E: Couldn't find package texlive*, any idea?20:33
dutchieyou probably didn't have it installed to start with20:34
dutchieshould be able to just carry on20:34
c7pactually the output is http://pastebin.com/m1ca776bd20:35
dutchietry using aptitude instead of apt-get20:38
c7pworked for me. From what i see no packages removed so i had none installed ... thank you :)20:40
dutchieglad to help20:41
c7pi'm running the installation script and it says somewhere, Disk space required: 1708 MB. Is this true oO ...? or a bug? I have only 90 mb free space that's why im asking. I have to mention that the tar is only 1.6 mb.20:50
dutchiethat is a hell of a lot, ask godbyk if he's sure it's that big20:51
dutchie(when he's back from lunch)20:52
godbykI'm back now.21:56
godbykc7p: Yeah, that's what's required for the full installation of TeX Live 2009 -- it's pretty big.  When I installed it last night, it said it needed 2 GB of space.21:58
godbykc7p: You can probably select on the packages required to compile the ubuntu manual, but you may have to add packages later if we require more as time goes on.21:58
godbykI've always just installed the full set of packages so I don't have to worry about anything being missing.21:59
c7pthere are plenty of packages. Do you have any idea which are the important packages ?22:01
godbykc7p: When you run the install script, you can press "S" to select a different scheme.22:01
godbykby default, the 'full scheme' is selected, which means everything gets installed.22:01
godbykyou can change this to basic or medium.22:02
c7pi think medium is ok22:03
godbykafter you select media, go into the collections menu (C)22:03
c7pthank you22:03
godbykmake sure that the XeTeX packages are installed (C)22:04
godbykthen under the languages menu (L), make sure that your language is installed.22:04
godbyk(you can probably save quite a bit of space by not installing the documentation for all the packages)22:04
godbykc7p: if you run into problems compiling the document, give me a holler.. we may have to select some extra packages to install individually if they're not included in the medium collection.22:05
c7pi have a problem with the <D>, directories22:09
c7pit's ok now22:10
godbykwhere are you trying to install the files?  /usr/local/texlive/2009/?  if so, you'll need to run the install script under sudo.22:10
c7pi'm downloading the packages22:11
godbykhow much space are they going to take and which collection did you go with?22:11
c7p635 without the english documentation, 725 with it ...22:12
godbykTeX itself is very small, but when you start adding in all the packages, it's huge.22:13
c7pyeah HUGE22:14
dutchienot just \huge, \Huge :)22:14
godbykdutchie: lol22:14
godbykdutchie: Greek: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-el.pdf22:21
c7pwho compiled it :P?22:22
godbykI did.22:22
godbyk(I didn't translate any of it, I just compiled it.)22:23
c7pthe funny part of it is that i am trying to install texlive to compile the greek translated pdf xD22:25
godbykc7p: Ah, cool.22:26
godbykc7p: Are you doing the Greek translation?  If so, I may have some questions for ya.22:26
godbyk(There are some options with the TeX Greek stuff and I want to make sure we're using the right ones.)22:26
c7phow can i help ?22:27
godbykHere are the options I've got:22:29
godbyk1. variant: monotonic, polytonic, or ancient?22:29
godbyk2. numerals: greek or arabic?22:29
dutchiegodbyk: I doubt ancient ;)22:29
godbyk3. use the acrophonic numbering system or no?22:29
godbykdutchie: Dude, there's actually an ancient Greek translation for our manual that someone started.22:30
godbykAlong with Latin and Esperanto.22:30
dutchiegodbyk: wow22:30
godbykNo Klingon yet, though. :)22:30
godbyk(I'm not sure what the ancient Greeks want with our manual either, but I'm impressed nonetheless.)22:31
c7pyeah and i think it is 0.1% translated22:31
dutchiegodbyk: \ifxetex is breaking my default karmic install22:32
godbykYeah, I think most of the translations are just getting started.  Since the source language is still being updated all the time, it's hard to justify spending time translating something that'll change in a couple days.22:32
c7pgodbyk: don't you know it ...? they want to install ubuntu on their antikythera mechanism (kind of computer) xD22:32
godbykdutchie: Install the texlive-xetex package and that should fix it.22:33
dutchiegodbyk: cheers22:33
godbykAt one point I trued to make that optional, but, well, it's just not anymore. :)22:33
godbykc7p: lol.. well, if anything would, I guess linux would run on it.  ;-)22:33
c7pgodbyk: linux runs everywhere ... even refrigerators run on linux22:36
c7pinstallation complete22:38
godbykc7p: Do you want to use Greek numerals or Arabic numerals for numbered lists and chapter numbers?22:38
c7pgreek numerals -> A, B, Γ etc ?22:39
godbykc7p: I guess.22:39
godbyk\greeknumeral{1863} yields ͵αωξγʹ22:40
godbykSo is ͵αωξγʹ preferred to '1863'?22:40
c7pthe version that you compiled is ok22:41
c7pyeah the numerals are ok, good job22:42
godbykBtw, when I compiled the Greek manual, I got a few errors (something to do with referencing Appendix A), but if you press Enter a few times, it'll go past them and generate a PDF.22:44
godbykI'm looking into the problem now.22:44
c7pactually if you open the pdf, on the 3rd page there are a few errors22:45
c7pon the top of the screen on the right side there are22:46
c7piv ,iv , iv, iv .. v , vi22:47
c7pno, there are also on the english manual, so i guess it's ok22:48
godbykc7p: Those are Roman numerals.  The introductory material in English books usually has its pages numbered with Roman numerals.  Then the main part of the book has pages numbered with Arabic numerals.22:48
godbykDo Greeks change the numbering like that in their books?22:49
godbykIf you can show me how the Greeks do it, I can try to have our manual do the same.22:49
c7pyeah it's common22:49
c7pyou can use Arabic numerals for numbering pages, paragraphs (e.g Installation) , Roman numerals for chapters (e.g Advanced Topics). The numerals as they are in the English version are can be used in the Greek version too. no big deal22:54
godbykc7p: cool, thanks for the info.22:55
godbykI'd like to have the manual be typeset as properly as possible for each individual language.22:56
godbykUnfortunately, I only speak English, so I'll have to rely on the translators to help me out with some of the details of their language, culture, and tradition.22:56
c7pgodbyk: glad to help you :)22:56
c7psure, you can mail them22:57
godbykc7p: Has the TeX Live stuff finished installing? Have you tried to compile the Greek translation?22:57
c7pno i haven't tried22:58
c7pand a silly question. where is ubuntu-manual/pkgs/ directory ?22:59
dutchieyou can do "bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual" to download23:01
c7pbzr: ERROR: The user name xxx@gmail.com is not registered on Launchpad.23:05
c7pnow what ?23:05
godbykc7p: Do you have a launchpad account?  If not, you'll need to create one first: launchpad.net23:06
c7pof course i have23:06
c7pguys i g2g, thank you both23:09
godbykc7p: np. thanks for your help!23:10
c7pnp :) keep up the good work ;)23:10

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