[00:43]  * humphreybc has just finished editing a bzr "howto" video
[00:44] <pleia2> humphreybc: have you seen ground control?
[00:44] <humphreybc> sure have
[00:44] <humphreybc> i'm helping martin out with it
[00:44] <pleia2> cool cool :)
[00:44] <humphreybc> i'm going to make a video of that soon
[00:45] <pleia2> excellent
[00:45] <humphreybc> i really need a proper microphone because my in built laptop one is crap
[00:56] <humphreybc> I think i'll go into town tomorrow and buy a proper microphone then I'll record a ground control demonstration
[01:20] <godbyk> Well, this is a bit vexing:
[01:20] <godbyk> To handle translations in all the languages we want, the best solution is to use XeLaTeX and the polyglossia package (successor to babel).
[01:21] <godbyk> Unfortunately, this requires a newer version of XeLaTeX than what Ubuntu currently ships with.
[01:21] <godbyk> I think what I'll do is design the .cls file to handle two case: 1. the standard English case which can be compiled with pdfLaTeX (as it is now), and 2. a version for all the translations that compiles with XeLaTeX.
[01:22] <godbyk> That way authors can continue to write the English text using the Ubuntu versions of pdfLaTeX, and people who want to compile the translations can jump through the extra hoops up installing the latest version of XeLaTeX.
[01:22] <godbyk> Thoughts?
[02:03] <humphreybc> Sounds like a good workaround
[02:07] <godbyk> Gah.. now I'm trying to merge the main branch and mine. (learning bzr on the fly)
[02:09] <humphreybc> heh
[02:09]  * humphreybc for anyone new to the project that doesn't know how to use bzr, point them at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ2VLcBFqBE
[02:09] <humphreybc> That is, until I make a new video using Ground Control
[02:10] <humphreybc> (which will happen in the next day or so when I buy a proper microphone)
[02:16] <godbyk> I hope that merge didn't break anything.  Can you test it for me, humphreybc?
[02:16] <humphreybc> sure
[02:16] <godbyk> thanks
[02:22] <humphreybc> godbyk: it's making fine, you've changed contents to blue font?
[02:22] <godbyk> the hyperlinks are colored now, yeah.
[02:22] <godbyk> colors are apt to change when we setting on a color scheme.
[02:22] <humphreybc> cool beans
[05:15] <godbyk> Hey, koogee.
[05:15] <godbyk> Are you still having problems compiling the manual?
[05:15] <godbyk> If so, you might go to the pkgs/ dir (in the ubuntu-manual repository) and run the install-pkgs.sh script.
[05:15] <godbyk> That'll make sure you have all the required Ubuntu and LaTeX packages installed.
[05:16] <koogee> i've already run the script...all packages are installed
[05:16] <koogee> it doesn't compile
[05:18] <godbyk> koogee: Okay.  Can you run 'make clean', then edit the main.tex file, change the first line to \documentclass[debug]{ubuntu-manual}, save, and then run 'make' again?
[05:18] <godbyk> if it fails to compile, then give me the log file and I'll take another look.
[05:18] <koogee> sure...
[05:18] <godbyk> thanks
[05:22] <koogee> fails to compile, here's the log: http://pastebin.com/m9fcb714
[05:25] <godbyk> Looks like it's having problems with the Palatino font.
[05:25] <godbyk> Can you run "sudo apt-get install texlive-fonts-recommended" for me?
[05:26] <godbyk> If it says the package is already installed, then run: sudo apt-get --reinstall install texlive-fonts-recommended
[05:27] <koogee> installing the package...then run make clean, make again?
[05:28] <godbyk> koogee: yep
[05:33] <koogee> compiles! thanks a bunch, godbyk!
[05:45] <koogee> Oops...i did a bzr pull after the successful compile...and made some text changes and ran 'make' again...it collapsed again: http://pastebin.com/m7f419cd6
[05:53] <godbyk> koogee: ah, one sec.. there's another ubuntu package for that
[05:54] <godbyk> (I just added that stuff recently)
[05:54] <godbyk> koogee: sudo apt-get install texlive-xetex
[05:58] <koogee> I thought I had done something :) ...installing...
[05:59] <koogee> compiles successfully. Thank you again.
[05:59] <godbyk> koogee: nope, that's my fault. I've been working on getting the translated manuals to compile and haven't got it all cleaned up nicely yet.
[05:59] <godbyk> cool
[05:59] <godbyk> np
[06:00] <koogee> I'm going to commit some paragraphs...its my first commit...any pointers...stuff i should watch out for...? :)
[06:04] <godbyk> koogee: I would to a 'bzr pull' just before you 'bzr commit'.. just to make sure there aren't any conflicts.
[06:04] <godbyk> then after you've committed, you can run 'bzr push' to upload the changes to the rest of us.
[06:05] <godbyk> when you do a bzr push, it may say it doesn't know where to push it to, so the first time you'll have to say 'bzr push lp:ubuntu-manual' but after that, 'bzr push' should just work.
[06:05] <godbyk> if you have problems, feel free to holler.
[07:02] <IlyaHaykinson> koogee: just sent you an email; didn't mean to delay committing your code
[07:02] <IlyaHaykinson> er, not code -- section
[08:15] <godbyk> I think I've got a good start on the translation stuff.
[08:15] <godbyk> I can run 'make ubuntu-manual-<LANG>.pdf' and it'll compile a PDF in that language.
[08:16] <godbyk> (with about a dozen caveats)
[08:41] <godbyk> Hey, thorwil.  I just uploaded a bunch of stuff to handle translations.  (Hope I didn't break anything in the process!)
[08:44] <thorwil> godbyk: hi. can you already make a list of fonts that *might* be used at least for the english version?
[08:44] <godbyk> For the English version, it's pretty much wide open.
[08:47] <thorwil> we definitively have to try Gentium
[08:48] <godbyk> thorwil: I was looking at Gentium for some of the translations, since it's supposed to support more languages, but the LaTeX language stuff didn't like it too much because it was just a TTF and not an OTF (so it couldn't see what scripts Gentium actually supported).
[08:49] <godbyk> thorwil: Actually it looks like it just didn't like Gentium with the Greek script.
[08:50] <godbyk> The Gentium TTF files claim to currently support Latin, Cyrillic, IPA, and maybe Vietnamese scripts.
[08:52] <thorwil> odd that OTF would help regarding language support, but that SIL would only offer TTF
[08:53] <godbyk> Yeah, they said that they'll be converting things to OTF and some other odd format sometime.
[08:53] <godbyk> I think it was only complaining about the combination of Gentium and Greek.
[08:54] <godbyk> (Since the Gentium TTFs don't claim to support Greek.)
[17:42] <IlyaHaykinson_> i remember that someone had signed up to do Chapter 2(around your desktop)
[17:42] <IlyaHaykinson_> but don't remember who :)  anyone else remember?
[18:22] <ring> hi ilya
[18:26] <IlyaHaykinson_> hi ring
[18:43] <ring> the meeting is on 2am local here in Dhaka
[18:43] <ring> what will be yours?
[18:44] <ring> what r u doing now?
[18:44] <ring> I am translating the manual in Bengali
[18:51] <IlyaHaykinson_> it's about time for me to go to work actually :)
[19:28] <wolter> hi all
[19:28] <ring> hi
[19:29] <ring> I am waiting for the meeting eagerly because it is 1:30AM now
[19:32] <wolter> ring, its tomorrow you know right?
[19:32] <wolter> i mean, we are missing 24 hours and 28 minutes
[19:35] <ring> Thanx for the notification
[19:36] <ring> Going to sleep bro
[19:36] <wolter> ok
[19:36] <ring> thanx wolter
[19:36] <wolter> no problem
[19:37] <ring> where r u from?
[19:37] <wolter> central america
[19:37] <wolter> you?
[19:37] <ring> me from Dhaka
[19:37] <wolter> oh, let me google that :)
[19:37] <wolter> is it india?
[19:37] <ring> what r u doing?
[19:38] <wolter> just woke up some time ago
[19:38] <wolter> was listening some good quality music
[19:38] <ring> no it's in Bangladesh
[19:38] <ring> It is the capital of BD
[19:38] <wolter> oh yeah, i just found out
[19:38] <wolter> i remember now, in high school i new that
[19:39] <ring> r u an IT Professional?
[19:39] <wolter> no
[19:40] <ring> then?
[19:40] <wolter> haha, i just graduated from school last year
[19:40] <ring> where r u living?
[19:41] <wolter> in central america
[19:41] <ring> graduation paper?
[19:42] <ring> city please
[19:43] <wolter> ok dude you're scaring me now
[19:43] <ring> why and how?
[19:43] <wolter> all these questions... its overwhelming
[19:43] <ring> sorry!
[19:44] <wolter> i'm thinking like next thing you'll as my coordinates and send me a missile or something
[19:44] <wolter> dont worry
[19:44] <ring> i just want to know about the place of your living
[19:45] <wolter> well, its tropical
[19:45] <ring> that's not possible
[19:45] <wolter> what? it is tropical
[19:46] <ring> because BD is against the Nuclear Weapons
[19:46] <wolter> oh
[19:47] <ring> what is your full name
[19:47] <wolter> anyway, it was just an expression
[19:47] <wolter> that's not helping you know...
[19:47] <wolter> your pulling my leg. i will reply no mor
[19:47] <wolter> e
[19:49] <ring> if u r annoyed by my questions then I'm sorry
[19:50] <ring> I have just the curiosity about you and your locality
[19:51] <ring> but i could be my fault not to present my self in the right formation
[19:51] <ring> sorry if u r bored from me
[19:51] <ring> bye.
[19:52] <ring> hope to see u in meeting next day
[19:52] <ring> thanx again
[19:52] <thorwil> 0.o
[19:54] <wolter> yeah, thats what i say hah
[19:56] <wolter> anyway, afk
[20:25] <godbyk> Apparently I just missed the interrogation. :-)
[20:27] <c7p> hello everyone
[20:27] <c7p> Godbyk are you available?
[20:27] <godbyk> c7p: Just taking off for lunch.  I'll be back after a bit.
[20:28] <godbyk> c7p: Feel free to leave messages or email me <godbyk@gmail.com> if you have questions I can help with, though.
[20:28] <godbyk> :-)
[20:29] <dutchie> godbyk: Sveikas
[20:29] <dutchie> (Lithuanian for hello)
[20:32] <c7p> well i've received a message "[Ubuntu-manual] Compiling translated PDFs" and i'm interested in compiling my language's pdf. When i type
[20:33] <c7p>  sudo apt-get remove texlive-* i get E: Couldn't find package texlive*, any idea?
[20:34] <dutchie> you probably didn't have it installed to start with
[20:34] <dutchie> should be able to just carry on
[20:35] <c7p> actually the output is http://pastebin.com/m1ca776bd
[20:38] <dutchie> try using aptitude instead of apt-get
[20:40] <c7p> worked for me. From what i see no packages removed so i had none installed ... thank you :)
[20:41] <dutchie> np
[20:41] <dutchie> glad to help
[20:50] <c7p> i'm running the installation script and it says somewhere, Disk space required: 1708 MB. Is this true oO ...? or a bug? I have only 90 mb free space that's why im asking. I have to mention that the tar is only 1.6 mb.
[20:51] <dutchie> that is a hell of a lot, ask godbyk if he's sure it's that big
[20:52] <dutchie> (when he's back from lunch)
[20:52] <c7p> ok
[21:56] <godbyk> I'm back now.
[21:58] <godbyk> c7p: Yeah, that's what's required for the full installation of TeX Live 2009 -- it's pretty big.  When I installed it last night, it said it needed 2 GB of space.
[21:58] <godbyk> c7p: You can probably select on the packages required to compile the ubuntu manual, but you may have to add packages later if we require more as time goes on.
[21:59] <godbyk> I've always just installed the full set of packages so I don't have to worry about anything being missing.
[22:01] <c7p> there are plenty of packages. Do you have any idea which are the important packages ?
[22:01] <godbyk> c7p: When you run the install script, you can press "S" to select a different scheme.
[22:01] <godbyk> by default, the 'full scheme' is selected, which means everything gets installed.
[22:02] <godbyk> you can change this to basic or medium.
[22:03] <c7p> i think medium is ok
[22:03] <godbyk> okay.
[22:03] <godbyk> after you select media, go into the collections menu (C)
[22:03] <c7p> thank you
[22:04] <godbyk> make sure that the XeTeX packages are installed (C)
[22:04] <godbyk> then under the languages menu (L), make sure that your language is installed.
[22:04] <godbyk> (you can probably save quite a bit of space by not installing the documentation for all the packages)
[22:05] <godbyk> c7p: if you run into problems compiling the document, give me a holler.. we may have to select some extra packages to install individually if they're not included in the medium collection.
[22:09] <c7p> i have a problem with the <D>, directories
[22:10] <c7p> it's ok now
[22:10] <godbyk> where are you trying to install the files?  /usr/local/texlive/2009/?  if so, you'll need to run the install script under sudo.
[22:10] <godbyk> ok
[22:11] <c7p> i'm downloading the packages
[22:11] <godbyk> cool.
[22:11] <godbyk> how much space are they going to take and which collection did you go with?
[22:12] <c7p> 635 without the english documentation, 725 with it ...
[22:13] <godbyk> gotcha.
[22:13] <godbyk> TeX itself is very small, but when you start adding in all the packages, it's huge.
[22:14] <c7p> yeah HUGE
[22:14] <dutchie> not just \huge, \Huge :)
[22:14] <godbyk> dutchie: lol
[22:14] <c7p> lol
[22:21] <godbyk> dutchie: Greek: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-el.pdf
[22:21] <dutchie> sweet
[22:22] <c7p> who compiled it :P?
[22:22] <godbyk> I did.
[22:23] <godbyk> (I didn't translate any of it, I just compiled it.)
[22:23] <c7p> coom
[22:24] <c7p> cool*
[22:25] <c7p> the funny part of it is that i am trying to install texlive to compile the greek translated pdf xD
[22:26] <godbyk> c7p: Ah, cool.
[22:26] <godbyk> c7p: Are you doing the Greek translation?  If so, I may have some questions for ya.
[22:26] <godbyk> (There are some options with the TeX Greek stuff and I want to make sure we're using the right ones.)
[22:27] <c7p> how can i help ?
[22:29] <godbyk> Here are the options I've got:
[22:29] <godbyk> 1. variant: monotonic, polytonic, or ancient?
[22:29] <godbyk> 2. numerals: greek or arabic?
[22:29] <dutchie> godbyk: I doubt ancient ;)
[22:29] <godbyk> 3. use the acrophonic numbering system or no?
[22:30] <godbyk> dutchie: Dude, there's actually an ancient Greek translation for our manual that someone started.
[22:30] <c7p> monotonic
[22:30] <godbyk> Along with Latin and Esperanto.
[22:30] <dutchie> godbyk: wow
[22:30] <godbyk> No Klingon yet, though. :)
[22:30] <c7p> xD
[22:31] <godbyk> (I'm not sure what the ancient Greeks want with our manual either, but I'm impressed nonetheless.)
[22:31] <c7p> yeah and i think it is 0.1% translated
[22:32] <dutchie> godbyk: \ifxetex is breaking my default karmic install
[22:32] <godbyk> Yeah, I think most of the translations are just getting started.  Since the source language is still being updated all the time, it's hard to justify spending time translating something that'll change in a couple days.
[22:32] <c7p> godbyk: don't you know it ...? they want to install ubuntu on their antikythera mechanism (kind of computer) xD
[22:33] <godbyk> dutchie: Install the texlive-xetex package and that should fix it.
[22:33] <dutchie> godbyk: cheers
[22:33] <godbyk> At one point I trued to make that optional, but, well, it's just not anymore. :)
[22:33] <godbyk> c7p: lol.. well, if anything would, I guess linux would run on it.  ;-)
[22:36] <c7p> godbyk: linux runs everywhere ... even refrigerators run on linux
[22:38] <c7p> installation complete
[22:38] <godbyk> c7p: Do you want to use Greek numerals or Arabic numerals for numbered lists and chapter numbers?
[22:39] <c7p> greek numerals -> A, B, Γ etc ?
[22:39] <godbyk> c7p: I guess.
[22:40] <godbyk> \greeknumeral{1863} yields ͵αωξγʹ
[22:40] <c7p> hm
[22:40] <godbyk> So is ͵αωξγʹ preferred to '1863'?
[22:41] <c7p> the version that you compiled is ok
[22:41] <godbyk> ok
[22:42] <c7p> yeah the numerals are ok, good job
[22:44] <godbyk> Btw, when I compiled the Greek manual, I got a few errors (something to do with referencing Appendix A), but if you press Enter a few times, it'll go past them and generate a PDF.
[22:44] <godbyk> I'm looking into the problem now.
[22:45] <c7p> actually if you open the pdf, on the 3rd page there are a few errors
[22:46] <c7p> on the top of the screen on the right side there are
[22:47] <c7p> iv ,iv , iv, iv .. v , vi
[22:48] <c7p> no, there are also on the english manual, so i guess it's ok
[22:48] <godbyk> c7p: Those are Roman numerals.  The introductory material in English books usually has its pages numbered with Roman numerals.  Then the main part of the book has pages numbered with Arabic numerals.
[22:49] <godbyk> Do Greeks change the numbering like that in their books?
[22:49] <godbyk> If you can show me how the Greeks do it, I can try to have our manual do the same.
[22:49] <c7p> yeah it's common
[22:54] <c7p> you can use Arabic numerals for numbering pages, paragraphs (e.g Installation) , Roman numerals for chapters (e.g Advanced Topics). The numerals as they are in the English version are can be used in the Greek version too. no big deal
[22:55] <godbyk> c7p: cool, thanks for the info.
[22:56] <godbyk> I'd like to have the manual be typeset as properly as possible for each individual language.
[22:56] <godbyk> Unfortunately, I only speak English, so I'll have to rely on the translators to help me out with some of the details of their language, culture, and tradition.
[22:56] <c7p> godbyk: glad to help you :)
[22:57] <c7p> sure, you can mail them
[22:57] <godbyk> c7p: Has the TeX Live stuff finished installing? Have you tried to compile the Greek translation?
[22:58] <c7p> no i haven't tried
[22:59] <c7p> and a silly question. where is ubuntu-manual/pkgs/ directory ?
[23:01] <dutchie> you can do "bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual" to download
[23:05] <c7p> bzr: ERROR: The user name xxx@gmail.com is not registered on Launchpad.
[23:05] <c7p> now what ?
[23:06] <godbyk> c7p: Do you have a launchpad account?  If not, you'll need to create one first: launchpad.net
[23:06] <c7p> of course i have
[23:09] <c7p> guys i g2g, thank you both
[23:10] <godbyk> c7p: np. thanks for your help!
[23:10] <c7p> np :) keep up the good work ;)