[00:40] <bazhang> #ubuntu-wow ? never heard of that one.  also, what is happening with Kfloodbots? they seem to setting modes every few seconds
[00:44] <bazhang> the user in question is insisting that it's fine to use #ubuntu-wow 'as many people used it last night'
[00:47] <bazhang> it IS official, but completely empty, without chanserv or topic
[00:50] <elky> #ubuntu-wow?
[00:51] <bazhang> empty save myself and futurama140 (World of Warcraft wow)
[00:57] <Pricey> jussi01: wow, you guys don't care that your charter isn't finished?
[01:05] <rww> Hello. I vaguely remember there being restrictions on access by TOR users to #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic. Is this still the case, and if so, will this change with freenode's changes to TOR access in ircd-seven (described in their latest blog entry).
[01:07] <Pricey> rww: We always blocked standard tor, though not the gpg-tor method. I can't see us blocking this either, but it depends on how it goes. If there is abuse, it could be considered.
[01:09] <rww> Pricey: Alright. That's the case for both #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic?
[01:09] <nhandler> Pricey: It is on the agenda for the meeting this weekend
[01:10] <Pricey> That's a big agenda.
[01:11] <nhandler> Pricey: Yep. Last I heard, the plan is to prioritize the agenda to ensure the important topics get discussed.
[01:12] <Pricey> nhandler: I also don't see tor on there
[01:16] <nhandler> Pricey: Feel free to add any topics you believe should be discussed to the agenda
[01:16] <Pricey> nhandler: I don't think it needs to be discussed...
[01:16] <Pricey> nhandler: I believe what I outlined above "see how it goes, discuss if it becomes an issue" is fine...
[01:16] <Pricey> no point tabling a 'non-issue'
[01:17] <nhandler> Pricey: Ah, I misunderstood your comment and I think you misunderstood mine ;) My "It is on the agenda" was with regards to the charter
[01:18] <Pricey> nhandler: Ahhh right :-)
[01:18] <Pricey> nhandler: With my remark to jussi here, i was following up on his email, where he suggested I take it to the CC *sigh.
[02:54] <Flannel> Hi cousteau, how can we help you this evening?
[02:55] <cousteau> where's uBOTu-fr?
[02:55] <Flannel> cousteau: I have no idea.  It may have been lost with the netsplit, wait a  bit and see if it comes back.  Do you know who runs it?
[02:56] <cousteau> Almohada is doing off-topic on #ubuntu-es and there's nobody to ban her
[02:57] <Flannel> cousteau: #ubuntu-irc is the place for LoCo channel help, we don't have access there
[02:57] <cousteau> ok
[02:57] <cousteau> thanks
[02:57] <Flannel> cousteau: No problem.  Have a nice night.
[05:18] <bazhang> this is the same fellow on about #ubuntu-wow
[05:18] <Flannel> "this"?
[05:19] <Flannel> oh, futuramaX?
[05:19] <bazhang> ah regnum online
[05:19] <bazhang> yep 'double click the installer'
[06:29] <JFo> looks like we are getting the CTCP spam in -classroom again.
[06:29] <JFo> can someone +R the channel again?
[06:29] <JFo> thanks
[06:32] <Myrtti> an hour left till new ircd
[06:33] <JFo> thanks Myrtti
[06:33] <Myrtti> np
[06:34] <Myrtti> anything else I can do for you?
[06:34] <JFo> heh, no. sorry to bother you :)
[07:22] <Myrtti> !away > iWolf
[07:23] <mneptok> you and me both
[07:23] <mneptok> worth a banforward here with a !mark ?
[07:25] <tsimpson> s/!/@/
[07:25] <Myrtti> here we go then
[07:57]  * tsimpson crosses fingers
[08:00] <mneptok> PRAY TO WHATEVER GODS YOUR FAMILY WORSHIPS!
[08:00]  * mneptok completely freaks out, grabs a parachuts, and bails
[08:01] <mneptok> oh crap! i grabbed jussi's backpack!
[08:02]  * wgrant holds on.
[08:05] <tsimpson> I wonder how many people in #u are going to start screaming
[08:18] <elky> is the migration happening now?
[08:19] <tsimpson> channel modes/topic have been transferred as well as the *Serv databases
[08:20] <tsimpson> they'll move the bots over, then start on the users
[08:20] <elky> timeframes on this?
[08:20] <elky> i want to cook dinner and so forth, but don't want to miss the popcorn moments
[08:20] <tsimpson> the last message was 20 mins ago and was "Hi all, services and channel states have now been migrated over to the new production network. We're migrating utility bots/pseudoservers as we speak and we're nearly ready for users. Users connected to calvino, crichton, kubrick, leguin and verne may wish to make sure they are re-connecting to chat.freenode.net as these servers will not be immediately linked on newnet as they are pending upgrades first.
[08:20] <tsimpson>  Thank you!"
[08:21] <tsimpson> so probably quite soon
[08:22] <elky> hmm, i might leave the steak until tomorrow and just order pizza in then
[08:23] <tsimpson> but..., it's steak!
[08:23] <Levia> STEAK!
[08:23] <elky> yes, and steak is tastier the older it is
[08:24] <elky> and i need to do washing up before i can cook it.
[08:25] <elky> and this is a perfect excuse to get out of that :)
[08:25] <wgrant> Maybe we should have ircd migrations more often.
[08:25] <mneptok> so tjhat the health department evicts elky?
[08:26] <wgrant> Something like that.
[08:26] <elky> the smell isn't *that* bad
[08:27]  * jussi01 grumbles that tremulous is broken in lucid and I cant kill aliens :(
[08:27] <mneptok> here's something to make you weep-giggle while we wait - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmv8quf_xM
[08:28] <jussi01> oh dear...
[08:29] <tsimpson> jussi01: install netrek-client-cow and kill some klingons
[08:29] <jussi01> ooh!
[08:30] <jussi01> Ill see you all there! :D
[08:35] <elky> whee!
[08:35] <jussi01> wgrant: jumped for me
[08:51] <tsimpson> !test
[08:51] <tsimpson> @whoami
[08:54] <rww> If one of you gets a second in all the chaos, +C is a wonderful channel mode and (considering #freenode just got CTCP spammed) possibly a good idea :)
[08:55] <ikonia> I thought that only worked after the migration
[08:55] <rww> ikonia: so... now, then :)?
[08:56] <ikonia> is it all done ???
[08:56] <rww> ikonia: yep
[08:56] <ikonia> clearly I shouldn't sleep, that's where it all happens.....
[08:56] <ikonia> I'll set it
[08:56] <ikonia> there we go
[08:57] <rww> Thanks. Have a good day :)
[09:00] <wgrant> Isn't seven meant to be immune to those HTTP attacks?
[09:00] <ikonia> I'm not %100 sure to be honest
[09:01] <ikonia> I've read a few conflicting posts
[09:14] <ikonia> wow all done
[09:23]  * elky hugs christel
[09:33] <bazhang> wait why is Flannel not voiced
[09:36] <tsimpson> because he's not identified
[09:37] <bazhang> aha
[09:48] <tomaw> anyone around that can play with floodbots?
[09:52] <tomaw> I guess not.
[10:12] <ardchoille> Can anything be done about gardar and high-rez in #ubuntu? Constant joins and parts due to excess flood
[10:13] <ardchoille> kinda looks like they're bots
[10:17] <Myrtti> well, that was kind of fun
[10:17] <ardchoille> hehe
[10:17] <tomaw> something like that.
[10:18] <Myrtti> I got to report bad behaviour to Staff"
[10:18] <Myrtti> whee
[10:18] <tomaw> Myrtti: who do I need to contact for a somewhat urgent change to floodbots?
[10:18] <Myrtti> tomaw: ljl most likely
[10:18] <Myrtti> and/or irc council
[10:18] <tomaw> ideally I need to push a minor config change out to them all PDQ
[10:19] <tsimpson> tomaw: what's the issue?
[10:19] <tomaw> see /msg
[10:20] <Myrtti> is there a quick way to clear out a channel?
[10:20] <tomaw> /cs help clear
[10:24] <Myrtti> thankies
[10:27] <Myrtti> confusing
[10:29] <Myrtti> very confusing
[10:31] <tomaw> hrm?
[10:34] <Myrtti> my irssi went a bit wonky there
[10:35] <Myrtti> was just about to do that, but got a pm
[10:36] <tomaw> I banned high-rez as it seems our flood limits are a little different now
[10:36] <tomaw> it's hurt a dozen or so people
[10:36] <Myrtti> anyone else got a pm from cWe_cRi
[10:37] <tomaw> I haven't got a PM from anyone :(
[10:38] <jussi01> tomaw: you need floodbots sorting?
[10:38] <jussi01> need to find tsimpson
[10:39] <tomaw> he found me
[10:40] <jussi01> ok, great :)
[10:40] <Myrtti> how cute ;-)
[10:44] <tomaw> Sat 10:44:28 [!] tsimpson [stdin@ubuntu/member/irccouncil] has quit [Changing host]
[10:44] <tomaw> Sat 10:44:28 [!] tsimpson [stdin@ubuntu/member/stdin] has joined #ubuntu-ops
[10:44] <tomaw> I wonder if it's worth decloaking your council account(s) to prevent that
[10:46] <tsimpson> the cloak will stay even if you /ns logout right?
[10:46] <tsimpson> (the original cloak)
[10:47] <tomaw> yeah
[10:49] <tsimpson> I guess the cloak for the council account is probably not needed then
[10:49] <tsimpson> jussi01: what do you think?
[10:51] <elky> i wouldn't rush in to it.
[10:51] <tomaw> it's no issue for us but it means you'll send those fake quit/joins whenever you id to it and again when you id as yourself
[10:51] <tomaw> I don't know how often you do that
[10:51] <elky> figure how the new ircd works in the real world first.
[10:52] <tomaw> yeah, certainly no rush :)
[11:35] <MenZa> morning all
[11:35] <MenZa> Oh, we're on seven now?
[11:35] <MenZa> Huzzah.
[11:42] <MenZa> Could someone unset guard on #ubuntu-offtopic?
[11:43] <MenZa> and #ubuntu, and pretty much everywhere else, I suppose
[11:45] <tsimpson> MenZa: guard is not no, you could probably just kick it
[11:45] <tsimpson> s/no/on/
[11:45] <MenZa> tsimpson: will do
[11:46] <MenZa> Negatory, cannot be kicked
[11:46] <MenZa> Someone in #freenode mentioned it might part today
[11:46] <tsimpson> CS is immune
[11:46] <tsimpson> well, staff will fix it sometime I guess
[11:46] <MenZa> Mhm
[11:46] <MenZa> aye
[11:46] <MenZa> Any other major hiccups with seven?
[11:47] <tsimpson> the FloodBots (in #u) are basically non-operational
[11:47] <MenZa> hmm
[11:47] <MenZa> I thought that had been fixed
[11:47] <tsimpson> they identify fine, but they don't quite understand the ident format and don't use the right modes
[11:48] <tsimpson> they never realise ChanServ op'd them, so they keep requesting +o
[11:48] <MenZa> hmm
[11:48] <tsimpson> I've done some hacking on the ones in #k and they seem calmer
[11:49] <MenZa> is LjL or someone straightening it out?
[11:49] <MenZa> ah
[11:49] <tsimpson> I would attempt to fix the ones in #u, but the propagation stuff isn't working
[11:49]  * MenZa nods
[11:51] <tsimpson> at least #k is protected :)
[12:02]  * elky raises an eyebrow at tsimpson and looks apprehensively in the direction of +1
[12:02] <elky> ping me if you need me to scowl
[12:04]  * tsimpson hovers over the !ot keys
[12:04] <elky> no kidding
[12:09] <elky> tsimpson, you still retain the "elky scowls at bacta" card if you so choose to use it
[12:10] <tsimpson> if he continues
[12:12] <tomaw> tsimpson: there've been floodbots on our testnet working okay for a while.  are you sure there's no some code update that needs deploying to fix them?
[12:14] <elky> he's now complaining to me about my eyebrow raising emotes
[12:14] <tsimpson> tomaw: maybe, but LjL is the one who would know
[12:14] <elky> because they're annoying him
[12:16]  * tsimpson sets mode +pedantic tsimpson
[12:41] <Myrtti> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f54b5805b
[12:45] <ikonia> #kubuntu is in a mess
[12:45] <tsimpson> ikonia: give me a sec
[12:45] <ikonia> I've just booted the bot for a moment as it was goin nuts
[12:45] <ikonia> thanks tsimpson
[12:46] <tsimpson> but the bots have no way back in after you kick
[12:46] <ikonia> I didn't realise that, I thought you could tell them to rejoin
[12:46] <ikonia> my apologies
[12:46] <tsimpson> nope :)
[12:46] <tsimpson> I'm restarting it anyway
[12:47] <tsimpson> code update
[12:47] <ikonia> lucky esacpe
[12:47] <ikonia> escape
[13:15] <nhandler> We can probably remove +r from the various channels. Channel operators should also familiarize themselves with http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml if they haven't already (there are some new modes and some other modes have changed)
[13:17] <elky> how many times does floodbot2 need to op itself up?
[13:28] <jrib> headlines are: 1) use +q for mutes 2) use /mode #ubuntu +q $~a for +R    I suppose
[13:28] <elky> floodbot2 is being opped up once a minute at the 40 second mark. this really isn't idea.
[13:28] <elky> ideal*
[13:28] <jrib> why don't they just stay opped forever?
[13:29] <elky> because freenode dislikes permanent opping
[13:29] <elky> i guess.
[13:31] <jrib> elky: is that because it gives the impression of us vs. them to users?  If that's the only reason I think fact the bots are named they way there are to make it clear they are bots, gets rid of that effect
[13:31] <jrib> insert "the" somewhere
[13:31] <elky> i'm speculating. i don't know for sure.
[13:32] <MenZa> well, that is the general preferred behaviour. get off your op piedestal, we're all users here.
[13:36] <jrib> wow that sentence I wrote made no sense
[14:13] <jpds> tsimpson: Now make it use SSL.
[14:14] <tsimpson> jpds: I tried that a while ago, I got nowhere
[14:14] <jpds> Have twisted installed?
[14:14] <tsimpson> yes
[14:14] <jpds> s/Have/With/
[14:14] <tsimpson> and changed the driver in the config explicitly
[14:14] <tsimpson> still fail
[14:32] <jpds> tsimpson: Works for me.
[14:33]  * pleia2 pets ubot4
[14:33] <jpds> tsimpson: I needed python-twisted-core, python-twisted-names and python-openssl installed.
[14:33]  * jpds hugs pleia2.
[14:33]  * pleia2 hugs jpds :)
[14:41] <Tm_T> brrrhhh
[14:43] <Tm_T> someone, please
[15:18] <bazhang> guessing that chanserv.py does not work with new services, at least the new mute function (ie quiet)
[15:19] <Tm_T> ye
[15:20] <bazhang> yikes. time to learn irssi I guess :)
[15:41] <tsimpson> bazhang: this is a slightly modified version of chanserv.py that mostly works http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/fd016da0
[15:41] <bazhang> tsimpson, many thanks!
[15:49] <tsimpson> actually, this one works better http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f40abfa7f
[15:50] <arand> It seems like we've got two floodboots in #ubuntu
[15:50] <bazhang> just trying to figure out how to do that; copy and paste to gedit then save as chanserv.py?
[15:51] <Tm_T> arand: there should be 3, as there is (:
[15:51] <tsimpson> bazhang: click the "download" link ;)
[15:51] <tsimpson> neer the top of the page
[15:51] <bazhang> tsimpson, ah I'm an idiot :)
[15:51] <arand> Tm_T: But only one should be acting at the same time right?
[15:51] <tsimpson> arand: we're working on getting them to play nice
[15:52] <arand> tsimpson: ah, ok, just wanted to point it out.
[16:18] <bazhang> tsimpson, works a charm, many thanks :)
[16:18] <tsimpson>  :)
[16:18] <tsimpson> it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing
[16:19] <bazhang> hehe true
[16:19] <tsimpson> btw, note that with /cs bans ... quiets will show with %, but that's not part of the quiet
[16:22] <bazhang> okay, will keep that in mind
[16:43] <bazhang> notk0 was trolling in ##linux earlier
[20:16] <Flannel> Do we have a new version of auto_bleh yet?
[20:16] <jpds> tsimpson: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jpds/ubuntu-bots/remove-md5-usage/+merge/18320
[20:27] <cowbud> I have a question regarding the use of ubbotu and how people randomly seem to apply it to people when they are off topic when the people who end up using it also break the off topic rule. It really seems like a way to scare off people who actually contribute. As Flannel can atest to I said one random comment about a users nickname in a joking way and I was immediately admonished. If the line had been
[20:27] <cowbud> ignored that would have been all that happened and yet the same person who admonished me made off topic remarks
[20:27] <cowbud> atest/confirm whatever
[20:28] <cowbud> on top of that that bot adds so much more spam to the channel it seems like private redirects would be manditory on most of those info commands. Or at least notice the person who sent it to the person so they can continue their chat with the same information
[20:33] <tsimpson> the bot does /msg when you give it an unknown command, it also supports sending factoids to uses via /msg
[20:34] <cowbud> right I realize that, but the majority of users use the public one
[20:34] <tsimpson> because the majority of use is to inform others
[20:35] <cowbud> that is true but often times it is used as a way to tell people to shutup basically
[20:35] <cowbud> and in chat that just seems unchat like, I realize the channel is packed but that ends up really adding more to the problem rather than resolving it
[20:35] <cowbud> ive been the target of this and also witnessed this many times
[20:35] <tsimpson> it's used as a shortcut sure
[20:35] <cowbud> if I spend hours helping people and make an off comment and get that message about offtopic I have to admit it is extremely annoying
[20:36] <mneptok> and there are circumstances where people need to be told to stop discussing certain topics, change their attitude, or stop using profanity.
[20:36] <cowbud> I agree iwth that as well
[20:36] <mneptok> cowbud: so abide by the channel rules and don't go off-topic. #ubuntu-offtopic exists for a reason.
[20:36] <cowbud> but I don't agree with it being applied immediately and honestly I think it should be reserved for ops
[20:36] <tsimpson> most of its use is for non-ops
[20:37] <cowbud> mneptok: but that is my point. Someone admonished me for saying "CrashOverride: zerocool just phoned he wants his nick" then that guy goes into how he has to go to work
[20:37] <tsimpson> if we restrict it we may as well scrap it
[20:37] <mneptok> cowbud: was that in #ubuntu?
[20:37] <Flannel> cowbud: Being an operator isn't a pre-requisite for helping keep #ubuntu useful.  With that said, sometimes users get overzealous.  The user in question here has already been conversed with regarding it.
[20:37] <cowbud> yes
[20:37] <mneptok> cowbud: how does your comment relate to Ubuntu support?
[20:38] <cowbud> it just seems like the bot because on "official" way to let users tell other users to be quiet. I agree that users in general help and utilize the wonderful amount of information in ubbotu but certain keywords tend to be more of a way to attack users for no regard
[20:38] <cowbud> chat in my opinion is a friendly atmosphere, what I said was not on topic but that is just my point in what way does saying "I am going to work now" any different?
[20:38] <cowbud> it is just adding to the good nature of chat
[20:38] <cowbud> and while I know it cna't get out of hand one or two lines is far from out of hand
[20:39] <Flannel> cowbud: Ubottu is a tool, sometimes people misuse tools, but that doesn't mean the tool is bad.
[20:39] <Flannel> cowbud: "I am going to work now" is also offtopic
[20:39] <Flannel> Er, I'd like to qualify that.
[20:39] <mneptok> cowbud: in a channel of 1500 people, 2 lines of offtopic banter per person is 3,000 lines of useless input.
[20:40] <Flannel> This time, "I'm going to work now" was offtopic, if you were saying that to let someone who you were helping or whatnot that you weren't anymore, it wouldn't be.
[20:40] <cowbud> mneptok: the message that was sent to everyone for my off topic was something like 6 lines
[20:40] <cowbud> how is that better?
[20:40] <Flannel> cowbud: I already said that I took care of that.
[20:40] <Tm_T> I agree that there is factoid abuse going on at times
[20:40] <cowbud> ignore the fact that I was the target, if I saw someone else be admonished and the bot messaged the channel with all that I would be equally annoyed
[20:41] <cowbud> I mean ok talking about it I realize it isn't really something that can be solved
[20:41] <cowbud> for the majority of the time the bot is helpful
[20:41] <cowbud> Flannel: but the way that situation went down it suddenly turned in to two people chatting off topic to continue repremanding me
[20:42] <cowbud> that is equally a waste of screen realestate
[20:42] <mneptok> cowbud: if you were not admonished, you'd do it again. and again. and again. and other people would follow your example. you were admonished, so whatever channel input there was from the bot will probably be the last that's caused by you being off-topic.
[20:42] <cowbud> instead of saying Stop repeatedly to me, you could have said if you have a problem you should discuss it in #ubuntu-ops
[20:42] <Flannel> cowbud: You mentioned that he shouldn't have done that, I asked you to stop, then you continued.  Had you stopped, it would've ended there in #u
[20:43] <cowbud> Flannel: I didn't say I shouldn't have done it I said that the message itself was more spammy then my original comment
[20:43] <Flannel> cowbud: There wasn't a problem.  I had already spoken to him about it
[20:43] <cowbud> right there a response like "We can discuss it in #ubuntu-ops" would have been appropriate
[20:43] <cowbud> Flannel: well if it wasn't public following the same rules the bot follows how am I supposed to know that?
[20:43] <Flannel> cowbud: You were trying to discuss it with CrashOverride, not me.
[20:44] <cowbud> Flannel: and as an operator you stepped in and just told me to stop
[20:44] <cowbud> seems like a poor response
[20:44] <Flannel> cowbud: You had already made your case to him, I asked you to cease further comments.  You continued to make the *same* statement
[20:45] <Flannel> cowbud: I'm sorry that he continued, I spoke with him after he did the second factoid as well.  I can't stop people from acting like idiots all the time.
[20:45] <cowbud> that isn't true, regardless this has no devolved into a ridiculous he said she said. To sum up what I am asking I would appreciate more helpful response then stop next time. Like hey these are the rules and if you don't like them you can discuss them #HERE
[20:46] <tsimpson> when you are asked to stop beging off topic, is it unreasonable for you to stop begin off topic?
[20:46] <Flannel> cowbud: As far as I was concerned, I didn't see any reason for you to be discussing anything.  You obviously understood the offtopic-ness, and I was already dealing with his overzealous bot usage.
[20:46] <tsimpson> *being
[20:46] <cowbud> Flannel: I didn't see that at all, did I miss that in the channel?
[20:46] <cowbud> to be honest if I saw that I would have been fine
[20:47] <Flannel> cowbud: No, it wasn't in #ubuntu, because that would've been offtopic and spammy.
[20:47] <mneptok> cowbud: it's not your concern how ops deal with other users.
[20:47] <cowbud> is this not a community driven irc channel?
[20:47] <Flannel> cowbud: Everything doesn't need to be public, does it?
[20:47] <mneptok> cowbud: your concern is to listen to ops' requests, follow them *regardless of how you feel about them*, and discuss them here if you think there is a problem.
[20:47] <cowbud> Flannel: well see that is actually my initial point
[20:48] <tsimpson> cowbud: talking to the user about the bot abuse in the channel would be off topic and cause more spam
[20:48] <cowbud> mneptok: since your ops are not opped in the channel I have no idea of knowing who those people are
[20:48] <Flannel> cowbud: When I stepped in, you can rest assured that I would set everything straight.  If you wanted to make sure I was dealing with him, you could've queried me, or come here to ask, or whatnot.
[20:48] <tsimpson> not being +o is in accordance with freenode recommendations
[20:48] <cowbud> Flannel: and I had no idea this channel existed until after everyone cooled down I placed a follow up question
[20:49] <cowbud> tsimpson: so it seems that someone should identify themselves as an op when they are "stepping in"
[20:49] <tsimpson> plus, it should not matter if someone has +o or not
[20:49] <tsimpson> why?
[20:49] <tsimpson> you said it yourself, it's a community channel
[20:49] <cowbud> tsimpson: if some random person tells you to stop you follow that?
[20:49] <tsimpson> if I'm offtopic, yes
[20:49] <cowbud> and it wasn't could you plesae take this converstaion somewhere else
[20:49] <cowbud> it was "Stop"
[20:49] <cowbud> that is it
[20:49] <tsimpson> no
[20:49] <mneptok> cowbud: it's a community-driven IRC channel. the rules are the rules. it doesn;t matter if an op or a community member tells you to follow the rules.
[20:49] <tsimpson> first it was "cowbud: Please stop."
[20:50] <tsimpson> then you continued
[20:50] <tsimpson> then "cowbud: Again, stop."
[20:50] <Flannel> tsimpson: For the sake of clarity, CrashOverride, did 'speak' at cowbud before he continued.
[20:50] <tsimpson> sure, I'm just saying it wasn't just "stop"
[20:51] <cowbud> fine fair enough
[20:51] <cowbud> it was Please stop
[20:51] <cowbud> to be honset it is just frustrating when at times I spend hours in that channel helping and I make one off comment and I get beat down
[20:51] <mneptok> cowbud: so why not stop when asked? regardless of who is doing the asking. and especially if you understand the notion of "offtopic?"
[20:51] <tsimpson> if someone is asking you to stop, regardless of if they are an op or not, you should start thinking about what you are doing
[20:52] <tsimpson> you are not the first to say "I help people all the time in #ubuntu ... I broke one rule... this is not fair" (paraphrase)
[20:53] <cowbud> well not fair isn't correct
[20:53] <cowbud> it is more of a feeling of being pushed out
[20:53] <tsimpson> it does not matter how helpful you are, rules apply to all
[20:53] <cowbud> that's fine
[20:53] <cowbud> ill consider that and where I spend my time
[20:53] <cowbud> thanks for the discussion
[20:53] <tsimpson> we do not operate a karma system for rule-allowance
[20:54] <Tm_T> cowbud: remember that we get told to stop at times too (:
[20:54] <Tm_T> well, I do
[20:55] <cowbud> also a fair point and something for me to consider how I approach the channel
[20:55] <mneptok> cowbud: i have used Ubuntu for 5 years. i worked as a Senior Support Engineer for Canonical. i *guarantee* i have given more help with Ubuntu than 99% of the people in #ubuntu. and i still have to follow the rules about being offtopic. and i'm fine with that. the rule is there to make sure people get help. and helping people is the entire point of the channel.
[20:55] <cowbud> mneptok: I never said I was above the rules
[20:56] <cowbud> I was more discussing what those rules are and how I think they are unfairly applied but again that has also been covered
[20:56] <mneptok> cowbud: but you implied that giving enough help should somehow exempt you from certain channel procedures.
[20:57] <cowbud> mneptok: well not exactly but more or less yes which I understand isn't really something that can be programmed in and is also not worth controlling
[20:57] <mneptok> even if it could be "programmed in" it wouldn't be.
[20:58] <mneptok> no one, no matter their contributions, is above the guidelines.
[20:58] <cowbud> do you think that is still unclear to me at this point?
[20:58] <mneptok> what i think is really not the issue here.
[20:59] <cowbud> ok
[20:59] <Flannel> cowbud: Is there anything you feel hasn't been covered? Or any further questions you have?
[20:59] <cowbud> no like I said I will consider my approach to the channel and where I spend my time
[21:00] <cowbud> so I think we're done here, unless there is something else youguys would like to follow up with
[21:00] <Flannel> cowbud: Alright.  Let us know if you have further questions.  Have a nice day.
[21:00] <cowbud> thank you
[21:01] <Flannel> Do we tell people about #ubuntu-ops anywhere?
[21:01] <Flannel> It's not in the IRC Guidelines, nor topic of #u
[21:01] <Flannel> (I could see a number of places that it could be in IRCG)
[21:06] <BUGabundo> I'm sure you guys are aware, but I just heard this and would like to be sure
[21:06] <BUGabundo> "when this change occurs, EVERY channel on freenode will need to be reregistered"
[21:06] <Tm_T> what change?
[21:06]  * BUGabundo fetchs backlog
[21:07] <BUGabundo> http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml
[21:07] <Tm_T> hmmm
[21:07] <BUGabundo> (08:57:36 PM) Stericson: with the coming change, it will be governed by a automated system
[21:09]  * Tm_T is puzzled
[21:09] <tsimpson> the GMS is not due to be implemented any time soon
[21:09] <Tm_T> tsimpson: Group Management System ?
[21:09] <tsimpson> Tm_T: yes
[21:09] <BUGabundo> (09:09:38 PM) Stericson: Right it's a few months away
[21:10] <Tm_T> tsimpson: I figured it out rightaway, did I won something?
[21:10] <Tm_T> s/won/win/
[21:10] <tsimpson> BUGabundo: where are they getting their information from?
[21:10] <tsimpson> Tm_T: just my admiration :)
[21:10] <BUGabundo> tsimpson: not sure, Stericson talk to some freenode folks
[21:10] <Tm_T> tsimpson: that'll be enough this time (:
[21:11] <BUGabundo> he is tryin to protect #cyanogenmod namespace
[21:11] <tsimpson> well there has been no announcement and no indication of the GMS being anything like complete
[21:12] <Flannel> tsimpson: I'm sure it'll be finished once the new nickname system is implemented!
[21:12]  * Flannel hides.
[21:12] <BUGabundo> Flannel: new nickname ?
[21:12] <BUGabundo> now I'm curious
[21:13] <Tm_T> no, before new automatic cloaking system is implemented
[21:13] <Flannel> BUGabundo: It's been on the website for a few years, I think they finally took it down.
[21:14] <tsimpson> BUGabundo: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gcwhen
[21:16] <BUGabundo> thanks for all the info guys
[21:16]  * BUGabundo goes back to RL
[21:16] <BUGabundo> aka Watching Top Gear
[21:24] <Tm_T> BUGabundo: thanks
[21:30] <Flannel> Why does everyone seem to have a tilde prefixed to their username?
[21:31] <jpds> Flannel: As in ~jpds@ubuntu/... ?
[21:32] <Flannel> jpds: Yeah
[21:32] <jpds> Because they changed it from the old n=, i=.
[21:32] <Flannel> Didn't I read that that was only for non-identified users?
[21:33] <jpds> No, that's different, people who aren't running an ident daemon has the ~ prepended.
[21:33] <Flannel> Ah
[21:33] <pleia2> and since no one runs identd anymore...
[21:33] <Flannel> right
[21:34] <Flannel> Now that people are awake, do we link to #ubuntu-ops anywhere?  (I don't see it in the guidelines, nor is it in the topic)
[21:35] <pleia2> it's at the bottom of the guidelines page
[21:36] <pleia2> and on IRC/AppealProcess
[21:37] <Flannel> AppealsProcess doesn't link from anywhere normal people would see
[21:38] <Flannel> Perhaps linking it from the top of IRCG would be relevant too, "If you have questions or blah blah blah"
[21:38] <Tm_T> yes
[21:38] <Flannel> (and the ops factoid too, "for non-emergency use..."
[22:04] <betz> mneptok: think my 24h 'will not click on any link in irc' mantra has passed now :)
[22:04] <betz> can i get access again?
[22:20] <Flannel> Howdy betz, I assume you've learned your lesson :)
[22:20] <betz> hey Flannel. yes, indeed :)
[22:20] <Flannel> betz: Sounds good.  I've removed your ban from #ubuntu
[22:21] <Flannel> Please join and test to make sure there's not something I missed.
[22:21] <betz> aah nice, thanks for that!
[22:21] <Flannel> BUGabundo: If there's nothing else we can help you with today, please don't idle here, thanks.
[22:21]  * mneptok returns fro the shower
[22:21] <mneptok> Flannel: thanks for removing betz' ban
[22:21] <BUGabundo> partying Flannel
[22:22] <BUGabundo> ohh one more question before I go
[22:22] <BUGabundo> if/when the change to the channels come
[22:22] <BUGabundo> how will it work for local teams ?
[22:22] <betz> Flannel: i'm in, thanks again.
[22:23] <Flannel> betz: Have a nice day
[22:24] <Flannel> BUGabundo: I have no idea.  We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.  I'm sure it won't be a big deal
[22:24] <BUGabundo> ok
[22:24] <BUGabundo> thanks
[22:29] <mneptok> betz: you, also, should respect the no-idling policy in this channel
[22:30] <betz> ow sorry, off i go
[23:05] <tsimpson> ooh
[23:06] <bazhang> freenode staff klined?
[23:13]  * tsimpson thinks he'll sleep this one out
[23:21] <Myrtti> cowbud: can we help you?
[23:24] <bazhang> nice post about yahoo nixternal at the planet.ubuntu.com website
[23:25] <nixternal> bazhang: thanks
[23:46] <Guest72088> yo, you freenode nutcases! you can only connect with ssl but not auth via ssl or is there some docs somewhere to help with authing via ssl?
[23:47] <Guest72088> oh this stupid ass service switching my nick
[23:59] <Myrtti> meh