[15:12] Morning all [16:25] morning sbalneav [17:11] in a edubuntu system are there levels of administration [17:32] Ahmuck: With PolicyKit, there's the *potential* for levels of administration, however, most packages tend to come configured as the "superuser" gets the admin priv. [17:32] However, the "standard" unix way to do this would be to have groups to control certain policy options. [17:33] i.e. have an "accounts" group for creating, modding accounts, have a "printers" group for handling printing operations (clearing queue's, etc). [17:34] then assign pk rights based upon membership of the group. [17:34] accounts for updating, installing sofware etc.? [17:34] linux has control policy options? [17:34] Sure. Simply depends on how "fine grained" you'd like to get. [17:34] i've got an individual i'd like to put in charge of some things, but need to keep them from "roaming" [17:35] Well, you used to control these sorts of things with setgid programs. [17:35] ie through user directories, etc. [17:35] Now you control them with pk [17:35] ok [17:35] Well, actually, you do both, since not everything;s part of the new pk order yet :) [17:35] is there a way to block process listing? [17:35] No [17:36] ya, i havn't granted system wide access yet [17:36] That's pretty fundamental to Unix-like OS's [17:36] there are some kinds of things you may want to do that will be either very difficult or impossible to do in a Unix-like environment. [17:38] This is due to the fundamental design philosophy of Unix/Linux [17:39] A good forinstance would be the running of various programs, like ps, by a user. [17:40] So, you may say, "I don't want a user to be able to run ps, and see what processes are on the system". [17:40] OK, fine, so you enable ACL's on the filesystem, and remove execute rights from ps on that user. [17:41] Now tuxtype stops working, since it calls ps to make sure that the user isn't already running a tuxtype instance. [17:41] (that was just an example, I don't know if tuxtype does that in reality). [17:42] As a user, you have to expect that everything that's in /bin, or /usr/bin should be able to be run by you. [17:43] Linux permissions doen't get that fine grained. [17:50] are there any good screenshot programs, similar to ksnapshot that doesn't depend upon clicking the new snapshot button? [17:50] Dunno, if I need a screenshot, I always just hit printscreen. [17:56] i'm looking for specific screenshots, under a vm window without the vm border [17:57] i can do it with ksnapshot, or a script using imagmagick, however i get the same problem, i have to go in and manually crop them [17:57] i'm looking to automate the screenshots [17:58] sbalneav: is there a way to prevent screen output. what i'd be having problem with is individual users viewing proceses from other users. [17:59] so for example, ellen's OO.o doc that is titled, "My Love Poem for David" would be presented under ps [18:33] !info xorg-driver-sis671 [18:33] Package xorg-driver-sis671 does not exist in karmic [19:01] Ahmuck: No, sorry, there's simply no easy way to prevent something like that in a Unix-Like environment. [19:03] You can do things like use pessulus to lockdown alt-f2, so they cant run things, and disable access to (gnome|x|k)term, but then they could just use Nautilus to browse to /usr/bin, and run ps directly. [19:03] Unix was originally designed for programmers to work in, and there was an orignal assumption that most things should be visible on the system. [19:04] This ultimately became the posix standard [19:04] and Linux is (or tries to be :) ) posix compliant. [19:06] Ahmuck: As for the screenshots, can gimp do it for you? It can acquire screenshots without border decorations. [19:13] There is a bug that's been filed against nautilus: [19:15] Hmmm, can't find it off the top of my head, but it was a patch for lockdown, "no execure", so that it wouldn't execute programs when launched from Nautilus. Thhis would help somewhat. [19:32] Ahmuck: also, you can use .hidden files to hide directories/files from viewing in nautilus (won't affect openoffice save/open dialogs and friends though).. have you seen the ubuntu wiki page on locking the system down? [19:32] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/HideFilesystemInNautilus [19:33] Lns: HUH! [19:34] I didn't even know nautilus did that [19:34] hey [19:34] joerg_: Hey there! [19:34] looked at your spec [19:34] sbalneav, did u find some time look at the specs? :) [19:34] looks fantastic! [19:34] ah cool [19:34] sbalneav, when did u look at it? [19:34] all kinds of good detail in there [19:35] last friday [19:35] changed a lot of things recently [19:35] w8 [19:35] oh, cool. [19:36] sbalneav, http://www.labpixies.com/campaigns/calories/calories.xml [19:37] oh, sorry [19:37] that's my test opensocial app :D [19:37] http://www.myserv-project.org/specs:core [19:38] Excellent, thanks! [19:39] sbalneav, should I start recruiting people? :D [19:39] sbalneav, I am just working on the opensocial stuff [19:40] sbalneav, which is not that easy....there's just one very poor python implementation for the google app engine [19:40] I'd certainly be more than willing to help out. [19:42] Lns: yeah, that's a good tip. Unfortunately, the wily "hacker" can still do a "control-L/usr/bin", so it definitely helps, but doesn't eliminate the problems. [19:43] it's not hackers i'm worried about, rather, nosey teenagers [19:43] though i aught to be glad their learning [19:43] One supposes we could create a "hidden" package that supplies a set of ".hidden" files for a bunch of directories. [19:43] Ahmuck: heh, that's why "hackers" was in quotes. [19:45] sbalneav: for sure. it's just 'out of sight, out of mind' type stuff =) [19:46] Hmm, so if I do a "cd /usr/bin ; ls > .hidden" that makes /usr/bin disappear. [19:46] Sooooooooo. [19:46] by extention.... [19:46] haha! [19:47] We could write a relatively short shell script that could be plunked in /etc/cron.hourly... [19:47] well [19:47] in my experience, if you lock down the root dir, there's not a lot that can slip by.. [19:47] that would go around to all the "bad" areas, like /bin, /usr/bin, /sbin, etc. [19:48] and create a ".hidden" file from all the contents. [19:48] 30, 40 lines of shell at most. [19:48] I'll hack something together tonight, stuff it in my ppa. [19:49] Ahmuck: So if you: [19:49] 1) removed Gnome-Terminal from the menu [19:49] 2) Locked out alt-f2 "run" dialogue [19:49] 3) run the little "hide things" script [19:50] Ahmuck: sbalneav also: check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GnomeOptimize -- I've put some things in there a while back about lockdown that might help [19:50] You'll make it difficult enough to do a "ps" looking for who little suzie's writing love notes too as to make it "almost impossible" [19:50] :) [19:51] Lns: You don't get enough credit for all the work you've done/do on the ltsp bits of the wiki. [19:51] lol [19:52] sbalneav: i did that a long time ago, it was kind of a stint that i got all that stuff up there. i wish i kept up on it more [19:52] but thank you =) [19:54] Well, it's important. [20:02] *sniff* i'm so glad you understand me sbalneav =) [20:03] actually, i'm planning on making a string of youtube video tutorials with edubuntu, starting with how to install it [20:03] but last week i was having issues with virtualbox so i couldn't set up my recording environment right [20:30] * Lns is installing edubuntu 9.10 amd64 for the first time =) [20:31] heh, Lns, that's what were doing here in the last week [20:31] henced i was asking about screenshots [20:31] =) [20:32] hrm, "installing system" information should reflect edubuntu, not ubuntu [20:32] i could probably come up with some wordage [20:32] if someone knows how to change it in the install dvd [20:35] wow, those screen wipes during the installation really get your attention! haha [21:34] hmm, it seems to me that the iconset for Gnome "Places" menu are pretty inconsistent with "Applications" and other menus [21:34] a.k.a. nautilus iconset i guess [21:59] highvoltage, ping [22:02] mhall119: pong [22:03] hey, I'm finally getting my Qimo packages started [22:03] I was wondering what format they need to be in to get into Universe [22:03] source packages, package branches? [22:03] just something in my PPA? [22:04] I've got a group for qimo-developers in LP, I was going to use that PPA for the packages as they become available [22:04] I finally got the last of my xfce issues resolved [22:05] mhall119: Getting them into your ppa's a great first start. Then someone like stgraber or highvoltage can look at 'em and upload to universe. [22:05] ok [22:06] do I need to make separate PPA's for packages targetting lucid and karmic? [22:11] No, the ppa will automatically handle multiple distros. [22:20] mhall119: source packages [22:20] mhall119: you can use your current ppa [22:21] ok, cool [22:21] I'll let you know when they're up and relatively stable [22:22] mhall119: great! [22:22] if I get XSplash and GDM themes up now, can I update them with my new artwork when it comes in? [22:22] yes you can indeed [22:22] excellent [22:22] I want to get caught before Alpha 3 [22:22] you'll just have to release a new version of the package [22:23] how do you manage the edubuntu cd, do you upgrade the packages in place, or get a new base image and re-apply your packages each time? [22:33] mhall119: built from scratch daily [22:33] (as in debootstrap and then meta-packages are installed) [23:08] debootstrap? [23:09] * mhall119 reads the man page