/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/02/01/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

baptistemmhello07:45
baptistemmgood morning07:45
TeTeTasac: hi, i'm doing some research on bug 509738. Is there a bazaar repo or alike for the modemmanager builds? I consider to do a bisection to detect what causes the problem with the 3G card12:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 509738 in network-manager "ModemManager from PPA not working in Lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50973812:25
NafaiHi all; reporting for duty! :)13:50
didrocks  hey Nafai ;)14:09
didrocksNafai: are you in Portland?14:09
NafaiI wish.14:09
NafaiAt home in Utah14:09
didrocksoh ok :)14:10
NafaiToday is the first day of my control though. :)14:10
Nafais/control/contract/14:10
didrocksNafai: :)14:13
didrocksNafai: I guess dx team guys will ping you14:13
NafaiI figured as much14:13
chrisccoulsonhey didrocks14:15
didrockshey chrisccoulson, you are you? :)14:15
chrisccoulsoni'm good thanks. are you in portland this week?14:15
didrocksright :)14:17
NafaiI have a doctor appointment, I'll be back in a couple hours14:25
TeTeTasac: found it on Launchpad15:20
NafaiBack16:40
NafaiHey rickspencer3 :)16:41
rickspencer3Hi Nafai16:42
pittihi17:22
pittihey chrisccoulson, how are you?17:25
chrisccoulsonhey pitti, i'm good thanks17:25
pittichrisccoulson: thanks for pointing out the gconf breakage, sorry for that17:25
chrisccoulsonhow are you?17:25
pittiI'm great, I slept suspiciously well :)17:26
chrisccoulsoni was going to fix gconf, but i can't upload it :(17:26
chrisccoulsondid you have a good day today?17:26
pittiit only just started17:26
pitti-9 hours17:26
chrisccoulsonah, i didn't realise you were that many hours behind ;)17:27
pittiwe are in Portland, OR now17:27
pedro_seb128, I've updated the hook on bug 418156; May you have a look into it later?18:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 418156 in yelp "Yelp Apport Hook" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41815618:41
baptistemmhello18:42
chrisccoulsonhey baptistemm18:43
seb128pedro_, ok18:45
pedro_seb128, thank you18:46
baptistemmheya chrisccoulson18:46
baptistemmhello seb12818:46
baptistemmhttp://bmm80.free.fr/public/oak-lucid-20100131-4.png <-- ultra fast boot :)18:51
baptistemmI should enable autlogin to win 1 sec or 218:52
chrisccoulsonbaptistemm - yeah, i was just about to suggest trying with autologin18:52
chrisccoulsonbaptistemm - also, it seems you need to profile ureadahead too18:53
baptistemmah18:53
dpmhey pitti, I forgot to mention it when you where here - ArneGoetje tells me it is not possible to build PPAs in the new server due to a missing LP credentials file. Do you think you could copy it over? ArneGoetje knows the details18:54
seb128baptistemm, quite impressive18:55
pittidpm, ArneGoetje: it should give you an URL to open, where you can ack the authorization, and then press enter18:56
baptistemmseb128, isn't it? :)18:57
ccheneyyipee it appears someone reverted the breakage to gweather :)18:58
* ccheney just noticed it when adding locations to his clock18:58
dpmthanks pitti, ArneGoetje, will that solve the problem you were telling me about and then the PPA langpacks be built again?18:58
baptistemmthe HD bandwidth is impressive, it goes to 150 MB/s18:58
baptistemm"up to"18:59
ccheneybaptistemm: what kind of ssd?19:02
* ccheney thinks his system boots in ~ 17s but hasn't run the program to verify it19:02
ccheneyi have a regular hd though19:02
baptistemmccheney, intel X25-m19:13
baptistemmwhy evolution 2.29 won't be packaged for lucid?19:19
seb128baptistemm, because lucid is a lts19:20
seb128baptistemm, and getting a rewrite in a lts is not good19:20
baptistemma rewrite?19:20
seb128did you look at how much code changed?19:22
seb128rewritting all the bonobo code to use dbus instead...19:22
seb128and bonoboui to gtk19:22
baptistemmnot at all, I don't know anything about changes in evo in 2.2919:22
baptistemmah okay19:23
baptistemmI'm little beyond anython currently in GNOME world19:23
ccheneybaptistemm: ah19:24
ccheneyseb128: ah so they are getting evolution ready for gnome 3.0 :)19:24
seb128yes19:24
baptistemmccheney, that's a terrific model :)19:30
ccheneyi have a seagate 7200.4 500gb drive in my laptop, pretty fast but no ssd, heh19:31
ccheney~ 100MB/s under hdparm but has seek time as its a hd19:32
Sarvattshoot, got booted when I asked a question it looks like -- <Sarvatt> is gdm's :0.log supposed to contain what ~/.xsession-errors contains? the ~/.xsession-errors output seems like it should be whats in :0.log instead of the Xorg.x.log and xserver's stderr output thats in it now?19:45
cyphermoxRiddell, asac told me there is something you want fixed in the packaging for the vpn plugins?19:53
Riddellcyphermox: I'd like to split out the gnome bits19:58
Riddellcyphermox: they're currently brining gnome stuff onto the kubuntu CD and we don't have the space for that19:58
Riddellit's also how suse does it so I don't think it would be a problem19:58
cyphermoxRiddell, sure. I think I saw a bug about that too19:58
bryce2pitti, btw Terri and I are going out to the Widmer Pub for dinner prior to karaoke; interested in joining us?20:05
pittibryce2: I'd love to20:07
bryce2ok, we'll be meeting up in the hotel lobby at 6:3020:08
Riddellcyphermox: how's this look? http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/vpnc.diff20:19
cyphermoxRiddell, looks good. It's pretty much exactly what I was going to do. I plan on working on this more later tonight though :)20:26
Riddellcyphermox: ok I'll commit to bzr and let you make any other changes you want and upload this evening20:36
Riddellcyphermox: I'll do the same for pptp and openvpn for completeness20:37
cyphermoxRiddell, there is a slight issue with that20:37
Riddellcyphermox: what's that?20:38
cyphermoxRiddell, do you mean that you'll upload?20:38
cyphermoxalso, there is also the network-manager-openconnect plugin you may be interested in20:38
Riddellcyphermox: I can upload if you want me to20:39
cyphermoxRiddell, that might be wise, as I don't have any upload permissions ;)20:40
Riddellcyphermox: but you want to make more changes this evening first?20:40
cyphermoxRiddell, no. from what asac had told me, I thought I was going to do the splitting of these packages20:41
Riddellcyphermox: I'm an impatient sort :)20:42
RiddellI'll upload shortly then20:42
cyphermoxRiddell, that's fine. from the diff I saw it looks perfect20:42
cyphermoxthe only thing is how current users will install the plugins in the future: it will mean they will have to specifically install network-manager-vpnc-gnome, not just network-manager-vpnc20:43
Riddellcyphermox: well how do they know what to install currently?  asac mentioned getting them onto the CD which seems sensible20:45
cyphermoxright know, I guess they look it up in synaptic.20:46
Riddellcyphermox: oh and that diff wasn't perfect, the auth dialog needed moved to -gnome and DESTDIR unset in debian/rules :)20:46
cyphermoxRiddell, hard to say without looking at the full thing :)20:47
cyphermoxRiddell, what I mean is, some could still try to install network-manager-vpnc and wonder why there is still no plugin available20:48
Riddellnew installs I expect people to search and find the right package, upgrades are an issue, maybe a hook should be added to the dist upgrade tool20:49
pittiRiddell: bzr bd-do21:04
robert_ancellseb128, pitti, hey21:54
seb128hello robert_ancell21:54
seb128how are you?21:54
pittihey robert_ancell, how are you?21:55
robert_ancellgood, how is the sprint going?21:55
pittiquite fine so far21:55
seb128just starting a few hours ago but good so far21:55
robert_ancellany big plans?21:55
didrockshey robert_ancell :)21:55
robert_ancelldidrocks, hey21:55
pittiboot speed, and some stragglers21:55
seb128robert_ancell, out of booting in 10 seconds?21:55
robert_ancellwell, you'll have that done by the end of today right? ;)21:56
seb128I was on my road to that21:56
seb128and the mini decided to break21:56
robert_ancellug21:56
seb128I still have my laptop though21:56
seb128but no reference platform for testing anymore21:56
robert_ancelldamn21:56
robert_ancellI'm currently battling plymouth+upstart.  Both seem hard to debug21:57
seb128it froze and since beep an error code on power on21:57
seb128oh?21:57
robert_ancellno spare ones there?  Have one shipped over21:57
seb128what issue do you have with it21:57
seb128robert_ancell, rick asked one for me, not sure when that will arrive though21:58
robert_ancellIs there a good log you can get from upstart after boot showing what events occurred, and what scripts were run (and the results of the scripts)21:58
seb128shame it broke at the start of the sprint; but I can work on my laptop and enough people have some of those to do testing21:58
robert_ancellIt feels a bit like dpkg in that a script can fail but the best debug you get is an error code21:58
seb128robert_ancell, I've no clue about upstart but I guess you can try asking Keybuk...21:59
robert_ancellyes21:59
=== Nafai` is now known as Nafai
seb128chrisccoulson, hey22:00
chrisccoulsonhey seb12822:00
chrisccoulsonhow are you?22:00
seb128good!22:01
seb128you?22:01
chrisccoulsonyeah, not bad thanks22:01
chrisccoulsonhow was your travelling at the weekend?22:01
seb128uneventfull which I guess is good ;-)22:01
seb128weather was ok on the road to the aiport, I had plenty of time for changing plane and we got almost no delay22:02
seb128spending 10 hours in a plane is no fun but otherwise it was ok22:02
robert_ancellKeybuk, any upstart debugging hints?22:03
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i don't particularly enjoy long flights ;)22:05
chrisccoulsonespecially when driving on arrival at the destination22:05
seb128no driving required there at least ;-)22:06
seb128chrisccoulson, oh, boot question, did you work on those gnome-session delay change?22:07
chrisccoulsonseb128 - the autostart delay stuff?22:07
seb128yes22:07
chrisccoulsoni wrote a patch which works, but vuntz had some review comments on it22:07
chrisccoulsoni've not addressed all of those comments yet though22:07
seb128can we get the change in lucid?22:07
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i think so22:08
seb128ok, nice22:08
seb128do you want to do the package update?22:08
seb128or should I do it22:08
seb128that would clean a bit our charts22:08
seb128ie make those easier to read22:08
seb128so I would like to get it in today22:08
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i can push the changes in to bzr, but i can't upload it22:08
seb128I can sponsor it no problem22:08
chrisccoulsoncool, i'll work on that in a second22:09
seb128thanks!22:09
chrisccoulsonmy machine has ground to a halt now - i've just turned tracker on!22:09
seb128yeah, io load is not handled fine under linux22:10
chrisccoulsonyeah, it definately doesn't like it very much22:10
seb128is that 0.7?22:12
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i'm running 0.7.18. i've got packages here: https://edge.launchpad.net/~tracker-team22:13
seb128nice22:14
seb128Laney, do you have a clue about bug #515306?22:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 515306 in tomboy "New dep on libnunit2.4-cil pulls 10Mb of dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51530622:28
=== Nafai is now known as nafai
=== nafai is now known as Nafai
Laneyseb128: yes, you have to patch out the tests22:29
Laneyor add a build-conflicts22:29
seb128are the tests installed in the binary22:29
LaneyI guess so, as the dep comes from dh_clideps22:30
Laneybut they were never enabled before, and only happen now because mono-devel pulls in everything22:30
LaneyI might add a configure flag in future22:33
asacpitti: whats the gnome bug number for the mm stuff?22:35
NafaiHey djsiegel22:37
seb128kenvandine, hum, seems you didn't commit your tomboy changes to bzr which made me revert those22:39
seb128kenvandine, I'm fixing that now22:39
seb128Laney, do you plan to keep the depends in debian?22:39
Laneyseb128: we already patched it22:40
seb128Laney, ok thanks22:40
seb128looking to what you did there22:40
Laneythis was one of the changes I wanted you to take :)22:40
seb128is there any other one?22:40
seb128we can't sync since we are on a newer serie22:40
TheMusodjsiegel: This week I do have time to do some a11y webkit testing. What do you want tested, given that webkit was updated in lucid only last week.22:41
Laneyseb128: the gmime2.4 switch, removing the requires from tomboy-addins and the build-dep cleanups22:42
seb128ok thanks22:42
Laneydunno which you alreayd have22:42
seb128I will have a look now22:42
TheMuso;/c22:43
Laneytomboy-addins.pc.in, that is22:43
kenvandineseb128, i didn't?22:44
seb128kenvandine, apparently not22:44
kenvandineseb128, oh i pushed a new version of xchat-indicator22:44
kenvandinethink you can look at it and upload again?22:44
seb128sure22:45
kenvandinethx22:46
djsiegelTheMuso: I'd like you to test webkit themes in empathy (kenvandine)22:53
TheMusodjsiegel: What themes use webkit?22:55
djsiegelTheMuso: all of them22:55
djsiegelwe have a guy working on one based on Renkoo22:55
TheMusodjsiegel: ok I'll test them out.22:56
djsiegelTheMuso: I have a bug for you22:56
djsiegelTheMuso: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/39248822:56
ubottuUbuntu bug 392488 in hundredpapercuts "Empathy could use an Ubuntu-specific Adium theme" [Low,Triaged]22:56
TheMusodjsiegel: ok22:58
chrisccoulsonseb128 - you've experienced the missing menus from the session indicator haven't you?23:01
chrisccoulsondo you know what causes it yet?23:01
seb128not really23:01
seb128it's due to the services not being running23:01
seb128the bootchart show that sometime they start and exit after less than a second23:02
seb128but there is nothing in the log23:02
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i experience it quite regularly, but the services are all running here23:02
seb128and no apport crash report23:02
seb128which menus are missing?23:02
chrisccoulsoni just logged out of my session, and it left some stale indicator-* processes23:02
chrisccoulsonwhen i logged in, both menus aren't displayed, but the processes from my previous session are still running23:02
TheMusodjsiegel: Well I enabled the blue theme, and if that uses webkit, then nothing gets read, i.e my conversation text is not spoken.23:04
TheMusodjsiegel: Sorry, the conversation text is spoken, but not the title which displays the user's nick.23:05
djsiegelTheMuso: ok23:06
djsiegelTheMuso: that sounds fixable23:07
seb128chrisccoulson, interesting, I think it's a different issue23:08
seb128chrisccoulson, try talking to ted about it maybe23:08
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, that might be a coincidence23:08
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i've pushed gnome-session to bzr now23:09
seb128chrisccoulson, I was just looking at right now, good timing23:09
TheMusodjsiegel: The renku theme does not read at all. All I get is "section" whenever I review the window.23:15
djsiegelTheMuso: ok, so, how do we fix it?23:15
djsiegelthere must be some way to enable reading in the theme23:15
djsiegele.g. use the proper html elements23:15
djsiegelor add attributes23:15
TheMusodjsiegel: If its using webkit, then I'd say we can't do anything atm.23:15
TheMusoMy guess is that not enough webkt a11y is enabled to even read text.23:16
djsiegelhmm23:16
TheMusoDoes empathy use gconf? If so, I will set the theme for empathy to classic for accessibility installs.23:16
djsiegelTheMuso: I am sure it does.23:16
djsiegelTheMuso: that sounds like an excellent approach23:16
TheMusodjsiegel: Ok thanks.23:16
djsiegelTheMuso: we have the Renkoo theme ready to use with Empathy but we are just waiting to make sure we don't damage experience for users requiring a11y23:17
djsiegelTheMuso: if you make the change of theme for accessibility installs, then kenvandine can package and enable the renkoo theme for other installs23:17
djsiegelkenvandine: ^ !!!23:17
TheMusodjsiegel: Yep, I can do that.23:18
TheMusoI think thats the best approach atm.23:18
djsiegelTheMuso: awesome23:18
djsiegelyes23:18
TheMusotedg: is it known that the indicator applet icon is not accessible in the panel hirarchy with keybard commands?23:19
TheMusogah typing23:19
TheMusohyrarchy even23:19
tedgTheMuso: Yes.23:19
tedgTheMuso: We have a bug open on that.23:19
tedgTheMuso: One of the biggest thing that it's waiting on is someone deciding what key should actually open the menus.23:20
TheMusotedg: Ok23:20
seb128tedg, alt-f3?23:20
tedgTheMuso: We'd like it to be the Alt+F1, but there's no way to get from the Application menus over.23:20
TheMusotedg: I would think that simply tabbing to it on the panel and pressing enter should also work, as that is how I access network-manager, audio, blueetooth, etc.23:20
tedgAlt+F3 for the messaging, application one or the session/me one?23:21
TheMusoseb128: I'd agree with that.23:21
tedgTheMuso: I'm not sure why it'd work differently.  What WM are you using?  Most don't allow the panel to have focus enough to select stuff in the panel.23:22
seb128tedg, any, you can do left-right to change then no?23:22
TheMusotedg: I am using metacity, and when the top panel has focus, I can tab between the menu bar, launchers, icons in the notification area, and the clock.23:22
TheMusotedg: I was expecting that accessing the indicator icon would work the same way.23:23
chrisccoulsonpitti - did you want to delay gnome-screensaver for 5 seconds?23:24
pittichrisccoulson: yes, it's a work item of mine23:24
chrisccoulsonpitti - i can do that now23:24
pittichrisccoulson: but I'm waiting for the X-Autostart-Delay: feature to land23:24
tedgTheMuso: Hmm, at least under Compiz I can't recreate that.23:24
chrisccoulsonpitti - it's just been uploaded23:24
pittichrisccoulson: so that we can convert the existing ones and add that one easily23:24
pittichrisccoulson: \o/23:24
tedgseb128: The problem is that the panel applets are basically islands.  So it's hard to go between them.23:24
pittichrisccoulson: thanks muchly23:24
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, can do. i can do gnome-screensaver now23:24
pittichrisccoulson: that'd be lovely, if you have some time?23:24
chrisccoulsonyeah, that's not a problem :)23:25
pittichrisccoulson: FYI, I settled modemmanager CPU usage now, and discussed the rsyslog/dd debacle; that will be a bit harder to fix, but I hope we can get it23:25
pittichrisccoulson: I'll upload system-config-printer and indicator-applet23:25
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, i saw the work items you added today23:25
TheMusotedg: Well I can't do the same under compiz, since by default, accessing the panel with keyboard shortcuts is not enabled. I'll enable locally, and test myself.23:26
pittiok, so seb128 will do indicator-applet and eds23:26
pittiso I'll fix s-c-p23:26
pittisweeet23:26
seb128mvo, there?23:26
mvoseb128: yes23:27
mvoseb128: in a mini-sprint23:27
mvobut here23:27
seb128mvo, any objection to drop the delay option from update-notifier?23:27
seb128mvo, and to use an autostart X-GNOME-Autostart-Delay key instead23:28
mvowhy? is it so fast now?23:28
mvooh, ok23:28
mvowell, just remove it then23:28
seb128mvo, no, but your --delay delays the icon creation only23:28
seb128mvo, it still goes through gtk init, etc23:28
pittialso, this is now a canonical way to defer startup23:28
seb128mvo, will work on the change now and ping you for review and merge in a few minutes23:29
mvosure, fine with me, just commit it to trunk or I do it23:29
seb128pitti, btw it's "X-GNOME-Autostart-Delay"23:29
seb128don't forget the -GNOME23:29
pittiyep23:29
pittichrisccoulson: X-GNOME-Autostart-Delay=3023:32
pitti^ like that?23:32
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, that's right23:33
pittis-c-p uploaded23:35
pittiI'll do jockey as well now23:35
chrisccoulsongnome-screensaver uploaded :)23:37
crimsunbjf: ping, there are a slew of core (kernelspace) pcm fixes that Would Be Really Good to test soon; shall I push those to my branch on zinc?23:37
crimsunbjf: reports from other distros (Fedora 13, Mandriva, openSUSE) are that they fix a number of audio anomalies23:38
seb128mvo, lp:~seb128/update-notifier/delay23:40
seb128mvo, want to review it?23:40
chrisccoulsonright, i must go and do some tidying up for a bit23:41
bjfcrimsun, are those fixes upstream (would they be in takashi's tree?)23:42
crimsunbjf: they are as of last night, so they're in today's snapshot23:42
bjfcrimsun, so are you asking for them to be put into lucid?23:43
crimsunbjf: I'm working on a bug report, and yes, it would be great to have them in lucid23:43
bjfcrimsun, the lucid lbm is close to being ready23:43
mvoseb128: looking23:44
bjfcrimsun, please feel free to post them to the kernel team mailing list23:44
seb128mvo, danke23:44
bjfcrimsun, an request a pull23:44
crimsunbjf: surely, thanks23:44
mvoseb128: I wonder if it is still useful for say xubuntu, so ripping out the code is probably a bit much23:51
mvobut removing it from the desktop file is fine with me23:51
seb128mvo, as you want23:51
seb128mvo, chart show that the delay is sort of lame though, it's still busy since you don't really delay init but only the notification area icon there23:52
seb128mvo, let me do a version update which changes the desktop only23:53
TheMusodjsiegel: Ok the empathy theme change will be set when casper is next uploaded.23:53
seb128mvo, if I drop the update-notifier.c change can I upload? ;-)23:54
seb128mvo, xfce probably use the same .desktop though23:54
asacpitti: fyi, dcbw had some questions on the bug23:58
pittiasac: yep, saw them; will follow up23:58

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