[01:49] <fullTummy> j
[01:53] <word2007adobefla> The Devil (Greek: diabolos = 'slanderer' or 'accuser'[1]) is believed in certain religions and cultures to be a powerful, supernatural entity that is the personification of evil and the enemy of God and humankind. The Devil is commonly associated with heretics, infidels, and other unbelievers. The Abrahamic religions have variously regarded the Devil as a rebellious fallen angel or demon...
[01:53] <word2007adobefla> ...that tempts humans to sin or commit evil deeds. Others regard the Devil as an allegory that represents a crisis of faith, individualism, free will, wisdom and enlightenment.
[01:53] <word2007adobefla> In mainstream Christianity, God and the Devil are usually portrayed as fighting over the souls of humans, with the Devil seeking to lure people away from God and into Hell. The Devil commands a force of evil angels, commonly known as demons.[2] The Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament) describes the Adversary (Ha-satan) as an angel who instigates tests upon humankind.[3][4] Many other religions...
[01:53] <word2007adobefla> ...have a trickster or tempter figure that is similar to the Devil. Modern conceptions of the Devil include the concept that it symbolizes humans' own lower nature or sinfulness.
[02:01] <directhex> o_o
[06:30] <xnox> nhandler: ping - UbuntuClassroom lesson pitch? leoquant's recruit
[06:46] <tripzero> anyone know what touches the /etc/sudoers file after the install
[06:49] <hyperair> visudo?
[07:45] <LucidFox> Is Thunderbird 3 going to be in Lucid?
[07:56] <mdke> if anyone could take a quick look at ubuntu-docs 8.10.3 in the queue for intrepid-proposed, that would be appreciated
[07:57] <mdke> or rather someone in ~ubuntu-sru
[14:33] <twp> hi - i have a question about debuild, versions and maintainers. is this the right channel to ask it? if not please tell me where i should ask. thanks
[14:34] <BlackZ> twp, ask in #ubuntu-motu
[14:35] <twp> BlackZ: thanks!
[17:50] <bdrung> sebner: can you have a look at bug #285417?
[17:51] <bdrung> sebner: sorry. this question targets seb128, not you.
[17:53] <chrisccoulson> bdrung - seb128 isn't online yet
[17:53] <chrisccoulson> he's in portland
[17:54] <bdrung> chrisccoulson: i noticed it too, after the wrong tab completion
[17:55] <sebner> bdrung: np
[18:09] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: could you take a look at the debugging screen locking wiki page I've started: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingScreenLocking
[18:09] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: and this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingScreenLocking/HowScreenLockingWorks
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur - yeah, i can take a look at those
[18:10] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: I would like to know what you think, and if you have any other ideas for them
[19:00] <TheMuso> cjwatson: I have someone from the a11y community asking me about the font size in lucid compared to karmic. Is this something that console-setup is responsible for?
[19:20] <cjwatson> TheMuso: I hope not
[19:20] <cjwatson> TheMuso: unless you mean font size on the console - but even then I don't think anything's changed
[19:22] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Yes I mean font size on the console.
[19:23] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Ok I'll let them know that.
[19:34] <slangasek> TheMuso: well, kms is now supported on more hardware in lucid, so affected users will now see a different console resolution by default due to use of fbcon
[19:53] <cjwatson> TheMuso: yeah, what slangasek said - it's also possible that there's been the odd language-specific change
[20:10] <cjwatson> pitti: where's the code that generates pending-sru.html?
[20:11] <pitti> cjwatson: it's "sru-report" in ubuntu-archive-tools
[20:11] <cjwatson> oh, yes, just found it
[20:11] <cjwatson> thanks
[20:21] <slangasek> pitti: how do you identify the list of language packs that need to be pocket-copied, given that they're not output in pending-sru?  Is there a tool?
[20:22] <pitti> slangasek: yes, indeed there is
[20:22] <pitti> slangasek: there's a langpack-o-matic checkout on cocoplum
[20:22] <slangasek> aha
[20:22] <pitti> slangasek: ./copy-packages karmic proposed updates
[20:22] <pitti> slangasek: or copy-packages hardy ppa proposed
[20:22] <pitti> that will generate a list of copy-package.py commands to stdout
[20:23] <pitti> slangasek: it checks the Packages.gz files which versions are newer
[20:41] <seb128> directhex, Laney: hey, do you know if anybody is working on packaging moonlight2 for debian or lucid?
[20:42] <Laney> seb128: directhex has done work on this. As far as I know it's... not ideal for packaging (bundled copy of mono)
[20:42] <Laney> (ftpmaster says no, but I think AA has OKed it)
[20:44] <seb128> Laney, ok thanks
[20:48] <Laney> seb128: can you NEW the waiting cil-dev stuff?
[20:48] <seb128> Laney, sure, let me have a look to those
[20:48] <Laney> thanks
[20:49] <AnAnt> Hello, I tried to build mailutils 2.1 (from lucid) on my PPA, but it failed: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/38633096/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.mailutils_1%3A2.1%2Bdfsg1-4%7E1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz , why is that ?
[20:49] <directhex> seb128, yes, Laney reports status correctly. currently i have a working build system (you can imagine the chaos involved in the "bundled mono" thing), and am producing binaries for documentation and for desktop (gtk library) packages only. the sdk is only a few more lines to add, the big pending item is support for firefox >3.5
[20:50] <seb128> directhex, ok, great, so you think you will get that done for lucid right?
[20:51] <directhex> seb128, i'm partly waiting on upstream to get the plugin working on lucid's browser. i hope to get it into lucid, although it may require some massaging of freeze dates by a local friendly core-dev
[20:54] <directhex> upstream are currently preparing a point release for 2.0, which will fix the browser support, and also brings in some licensing fixes i requested
[20:54] <seb128> directhex, ok thanks, I don't think the archive admin side should be an issue but let's see when it gets ready...
[20:54] <seb128> directhex, thanks for working on it
[20:57] <directhex> seb128, well, i wish the build system were a little more sane so it were debianable, but the assurances i got regarding ubuntu acceptability reignited my desire to work on it
[20:58] <seb128> great! :-)
[21:37] <mok0_> What's the status on format 3.0 (quilt) ?
[21:42] <mok0_> ah n/m, found it
[21:55] <pitti> 3~
[22:09] <cjwatson> mok0_: .orig.tar.(!gz) is broken, that's the main outstanding issue (bug 225151)
[22:11] <seb128> cjwatson, it's broken for syncs you mean or...?
[22:12] <StevenK> seb128: It would be broken for everything, syncs and uploads
[22:13] <seb128> StevenK, weird, I did upload pidgin with an orig.tar.bz2 some weeks ago and it worked
[22:13] <seb128> it's in lucid
[22:13]  * StevenK looks
[22:14] <StevenK> cjwatson: ^
[22:14] <ccheney> yep its there
[22:14] <ccheney> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/pidgin/pidgin_2.6.5.orig.tar.bz2
[22:14] <cjwatson> seb128: it may only be in some cases, but the bug does seem to suggest that database support is nonexistent
[22:14] <cjwatson> so maybe it does work, I can't say how well
[22:14] <StevenK> So perhaps it's just "we'd rather you didn't"
[22:15] <StevenK> Rather than "it's completly broken, and won't work"
[22:15] <slangasek> but is -2ubuntu1 the only Ubuntu revision we've had of pidgin 2.6.5?
[22:15] <ccheney> hmm pidgin has the whole new format it seems
[22:15] <ccheney> including eg pidgin_2.6.5-2ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz
[22:15] <cjwatson> ccheney: you can't do .orig.tar.bz2 in format 1
[22:15] <cjwatson> so that's not surprising
[22:15] <slangasek> (the sync-source problems, certainly, are specific to trying to upload a *second* version that references the same .orig.tar.bz2)
[22:15] <ccheney> cjwatson: ah ok
[22:16] <seb128> slangasek, yes it is
[22:16] <seb128> (only revision of the version)
[22:16]  * slangasek nods
[22:16] <cjwatson> it's possible that a subsequent upload would be unable to realise that there's already a .orig there
[22:16] <cjwatson> I'm not entirely sure
[22:17] <cjwatson> (but I think we should fix this for lucid rather than panicking about stuff already in the archive ...)
[22:17] <slangasek> we certainly should :)
[22:17] <StevenK> Oooh, that's a good point.
[22:18] <StevenK> Shall we upload a no-change pidgin to see if it goes bang?
[22:19] <mok0_> Is there still no intelligent way to specify build-depends for a source package?
[22:21] <StevenK> mok0_: What do you mean?
[22:21] <mok0_> StevenK: That occasionally you can't build a source package because certain packages are needed, for example in the clean target
[22:22] <TheMuso> Right, thanks.
[22:22] <StevenK> mok0_: And they should be in the Build-Depends, and is a bug. And?
[22:22] <persia> Um, no they shouldn't.
[22:22] <slangasek> mok0_: they're specified, and you should be installing them as specified?
[22:22] <mok0_> slangasek: right
[22:22] <persia> Policy doesn't require that the packages required to maintain a package are specified anywhere.
[22:23] <slangasek> persia: "in the clean target"
[22:23] <slangasek> that's specified in policy
[22:24] <cjwatson> seb128: looking through soyuz, I think it might just be syncs
[22:24] <mok0_> OK, in this case, the package _was_ specified in Build-Depends
[22:24] <persia> Ah, right.  Sorry, got confused with my dream of Source-Depends.
[22:24] <mok0_> but it's still a hunt to track it down
[22:24] <mok0_> persia: That's a nice dream :-)
[22:25] <cjwatson> I don't *see* any hardcoded references to .orig.tar.gz elsewhere
[22:25] <StevenK> Is there something in Debian we can try and sync to try it? :-)
[22:25] <cjwatson> we *know* .orig.tar.bz2 syncs failed
[22:25] <cjwatson> sync-blacklist is full of failures
[22:25] <cjwatson> s/failed/fail/
[22:25] <StevenK> Ahh
[22:25] <cjwatson> the question is whether non-origful uploads fail
[22:41] <bryce2> apw, btw I have a box here in the desktop room with your l-b-m kernel bits on it
[22:42] <bryce2> apw, it's up right now with nouveau+kms.
[22:42] <bryce2> compiz crashes on it, and vt switching doesn't work
[22:42] <bryce2> haven't tested it too deeply
[23:10] <directhex> seb128, still about?
[23:10] <seb128> directhex, hey
[23:12] <directhex> seb128, i wonder if you can help me find some packages which have gone walkabout... the new -dev packages for gnome-desktop-sharp2 are showing on launchpad, but i can't see them on packages.ubuntu.com
[23:12] <seb128> directhex, I newed those just before lunch so maybe yet another publisher run
[23:13] <directhex> seb128, ah, i see
[23:13] <directhex> seb128, wondered why i was missing build-deps for building moon2 against lucid rather than sid ;)
[23:32] <ccheney> doko: new OOo (rc4) uploaded with your new patch
[23:33]  * ccheney now gets to work updating all the surrounding bits for OOo
[23:35] <lifeless> jcastro: what bzr package did you have?
[23:35] <lifeless> jcastro: also can you do 'which bzr' just to be sure the system one ran
[23:38] <lifeless> jcastro: in fact, where are you ?
[23:40] <StevenK> cjwatson: d-i uploaded for new kernel ABIs. Twice. :-/
[23:46] <cjwatson> StevenK: thanks