Picijrib: Heres one for the list:00:04
Pici19:04:06 <airtonix> tanner, and i disagree that it is excessive... terraforming a planet is exessive... editing a menu is trivial00:04
jribPici: nice00:14
ikoniahello JayCool01:21
JayCoolim sorry dude i just didnt know if you where in charge01:21
jribJayCool: do you understand why the rules exist in #ubuntu?01:22
ikoniaJayCool: it doesn't matter -01:22
JayCoolyou guys kept going back and forth01:22
ikoniaJayCool: if I'm an op or not, users are asking you to stop messing around01:22
ikoniaJayCool: you had warnings in the channel, private message warnings, and where kicked 3 times01:22
JayCoolwhat did i do?01:22
ikoniaJayCool: repeated offtopic comments, bot abuse, just trying to be a nusance01:22
JayCoolim sorry i wont happen again :(01:23
ikoniayou've had 3 warnings (kicks) warnings in the channel and a warning in private message,01:23
ikoniafor the moment you can take some time out of the channel to think about how you behave in the channel, and how you respond to users, any users, not just operators01:23
JayCooli only got 1 private message01:24
JayCoolone more change please!01:24
ikoniayou can take some time out to think about how you respond to people in the channel01:25
ikoniacome back in 24 hours and we'll discuss removing your ban01:25
JayCooli woudnt kick you from my channel :(01:25
ikoniaare you aware of the ubuntu code of conduct and channel guidelines ?01:25
JayCoolyes and i was supporting individuals , sorry for the issues01:26
ikonia!guidelines | JayCool01:27
ubottuJayCool: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines01:27
ikoniaJayCool: please refresh yourself with them, and come back in 24 hours01:27
JayCoolSave me Popey!01:28
ikoniaJayCool: do you understand ?01:28
JayCoolyes. i will do that. Just so you know this is a shared IP address your blocking everyone at the library now:(01:29
ikoniaJayCool: that's fine01:29
mkanyicy77i am banned now i end up here?01:30
ikoniaJayCool: please cme back in 24 hours and we'll discss removing the ban01:30
ikoniamkanyicy77: be with you very shortly, if you could hang on for a moment please01:30
JayCoolikonia do you work for canonical ?01:30
mkanyicy77is this the counselling is kicked victims?01:30
ikoniaJayCool: that's not important01:30
JayCoolbecause i do01:30
ikoniamkanyicy77: please be patient for a few moments and we'll get to you01:30
ikoniaJayCool: I think we are done here - please come back in 24 hours01:31
JayCoolok sorry bro. bye bye see ya soon01:31
ikoniaJayCool: bye01:31
ikoniamkanyicy77: apologies for the delay, thank you for joining01:32
ikoniamkanyicy77: I wanted to talk to you about your recent behaviour in #ubuntu and try to resolve any problems01:32
mkanyicy77are you implying that you had no other alternatives at your disposal?01:33
mkanyicy77let me speak up my mind to you: you have the power to kick people, use it with care01:34
ikoniaI do01:34
ikoniaI suggest you look at the reason you where kicked01:34
mkanyicy77which is?01:34
ikoniayou where repeatedly asked to stop discussing something in channel, to stop using the bot and to keep with the channel topic01:34
ikoniaI had to mute you to stop talking about the topic, and I attempted to talk to you in private message, you didn't respond so I removed you from the channel with a message to join this channel, which you now have done01:35
mkanyicy77I was greeting people who just come, and you treat me like i was insulting people01:35
ikoniamkanyicy77: no - you where using the bot for every user that joined, another user asked you to stop/tone it down a little, so you gave a smart response of !hi to the user asking you to stop using !hi01:36
mkanyicy77you had an old PM and you never updated it01:36
ikoniaI have not had a pm from you01:36
mkanyicy77your statement was not a question, there was nothing i could say about it or you wanted me to bow in front of you and say sorry?01:37
ikoniaI'm more interested in you keeping with the channel's topic and just claming down your use of the bot and how you respond to other users requests01:37
mkanyicy77so do i01:37
mkanyicy77ive seen people who were restless and using strong language not kicked01:37
ikoniaall you need to do is just calm down a little on the bot, cut back on the smart answers/jokes and keep with the topic01:37
mkanyicy77you have a nerve to justify yourself01:38
ikoniamkanyicy77: people do get missed, no-one is perfect01:38
ikoniaI'm not justifying myself, I'm just explaining the situation to you01:38
mkanyicy77i mean at sometimes people came and blackmailed us to prompt help01:38
mkanyicy77thats when you were supposed to jump in01:39
ikoniaI have no idea what you're talking about, but it's not relevant to this discussion01:39
ikoniaI'm just interested in your behaviour in the channel01:39
mkanyicy77all you do is snooping at everyday semantics01:39
ikoniamkanyicy77: are you aware of the channels rules/policies ?01:39
mkanyicy77i should be asking you01:39
mkanyicy77i know it for years01:40
ikoniamkanyicy77: ok, so do you think you can keep with it in future ?01:40
mkanyicy77why do you think i am here01:40
ikoniabecause I put it in your kick message to join01:40
mkanyicy77does it look like its my first day here ?01:40
ikoniaor you wouldn't behave as you where doing in the channel01:40
mkanyicy77look back at the logs01:40
ikoniaI don't need to, I don't mind if its your first day or your 1000'th day, I just want you to follow the rules of the channel please.01:41
mkanyicy77i don't know why you think your behaviour is the better one in terms of the rules i know01:41
ikoniamkanyicy77: please stop trying to deflect the fact that you where not following the rules (I've outlined why) and either accept to follow them in future - or not01:42
mkanyicy77look, i will not step back and act like i was wrong when  it was you who was wrong01:42
mkanyicy77you were unfair, face it01:43
ikoniaok - then I suggest you review the logs and come back when you can see when you refused to stop talking about topics and when you where rude to other users by messing with the bots01:43
ikoniamkanyicy77: re-read what you said to rwww01:44
mkanyicy77you just chased me without a ball01:44
mkanyicy77that's was sacarsm01:44
ikoniarww was just trying to keep the channel flowing and stop you messing with the bot, you kept on at him to clam down and gave smart answer01:44
mkanyicy77and i am not here to lecture everyone before I joke01:44
ikoniaall you needed to do was say "sure no problem"01:45
ikoniait's not a joke channel01:45
ikoniaI asked you to stop - and you kept on01:45
mkanyicy77who said it is01:45
mkanyicy77i joke, not because its a joke channel01:45
ikoniayou suggested it was saying you where making jokes/sarcasm01:45
mkanyicy77like you are breathing01:45
mkanyicy77is it a breathing channel then?01:45
ikoniaok - I'll make it clear then01:45
ikoniajokes are not appropriate in channel, please don't do that in future01:45
mkanyicy77you do not understand,01:46
ikoniamore so when they can be seen as rude towards another user or provokotive01:46
mkanyicy77your literal interpretation is wasting both our times01:46
ikoniayour inability to just accept the rules is wasting your time from accessing #ubuntu01:47
mkanyicy77ikonia, i am conscious of my actions and I follow the rules of Ubuntu, period01:47
ikoniaI understand how it can be easy to slip up, that's why I'm trying to be clear01:47
mkanyicy77you want be to back down and act like a criminal while I am a victim01:47
ikoniamkanyicy77: then please don't make jokes, please don't be offtopic, please don't mess with the bot, and please try to be a little more thoughtful towards other users requests01:47
ikoniaI don't think you're a criminial01:48
ikoniaI just wanted you to follow the channels guidelines01:48
mkanyicy77bring back to the channel01:48
mkanyicy77i am here to serve my people01:48
mkanyicy77not to chit chat all day01:48
mkanyicy77the rules are in my head01:49
mkanyicy77i am not rude01:49
ikoniaok - well I think you need to go away for a while 24 hours as I'm note convinced you're going to follow the rules based on our discussion01:49
mkanyicy77i am welcoming people01:49
mkanyicy77what is wrong with all these?01:49
mkanyicy77that is not fair01:50
mkanyicy77because it means that you want people not to express themselves01:50
mkanyicy77the system should be democratic01:50
PiciWe ask that people not abuse the bot.  We would not like to have to take away bot factoids like !hi because people overuse them.01:50
mkanyicy77here we go01:51
PiciIs there a problem?01:51
mkanyicy77now how does !hi deserve a person to be away for 24hours?01:51
mkanyicy77yes there is a problem01:51
mkanyicy77you know the problem, don't you?01:52
Picimkanyicy77: From what ikonia is saying is that you were using !hi to everyone who joined and continued after being asked not to?01:52
PiciI haven't looked at the logs myself, but does that sound accurate/01:52
mkanyicy77i agree01:52
mkanyicy77but I changed from that01:52
ikoniayou argued about it in the channel01:53
mkanyicy77he banned me about an hour later01:53
ikoniayou gave clever responses to rww who was just asking you to stop01:53
ikoniaI didn't ban you01:53
mkanyicy77no, he banned other people01:53
ikoniaI kicked you to stop you talking01:53
mkanyicy77i argued about them01:53
ikoniayou came back and started going off, I muted you - tried to talk to you in pm, you didn't respond so I removed you from the channel asking you to join this channel, and you did01:53
mkanyicy77as i said, your pm just said please do not use !hi too much01:54
mkanyicy77what was i supposed to reply saying?01:54
ikoniano it didn't01:55
ikoniaI asked you to stop talking and join #ubuntu-ops to discuss it - you did not01:55
mkanyicy77and besides, you took the whole hour before you ban me01:55
ikoniaI didn't take an hour01:55
mkanyicy77and i already changed from that since i read your pm01:55
ikoniaI muted you while trying to pm you - you didn't respond in a reasonable time so I removed you - and all of a sudden you woke up01:55
ikoniaI also pm'd you on your other nick mkanyician01:56
ikoniaso I did try on the two you where using01:56
ikoniayou changed nick to mkanyicy77 after I kicked you01:56
ikoniaso you had not changed nicks01:56
mkanyicy77this is just not fair01:57
mkanyicy77not fair is even undermining the description01:57
mkanyicy77ikonia, you failed to use your powers appropriately, and you had to admit about it01:57
ikoniaI've not "admited" anything ???01:58
mkanyicy77ikonia, yes you havent01:58
mkanyicy77instead you've been projecting your flaws to me01:58
mkanyicy77and i am not willing to take them01:58
Seeker`sorry, is this discussion going anywhere?01:59
ikoniaI'm not willing to discuss this any more at this time, which is why I suggest you come back in 24 hours when you've had chance to think about it01:59
mkanyicy77Seeker`, are you in hurry?01:59
Seeker`yes. yes I am.02:00
mkanyicy77ikonia, its the 24 hours that i think you are even far more mistaken02:00
mkanyicy77your are free to go, Seeker`02:00
ikoniamkanyicy77: you're welcome to think I'm mistaken, but this won't progress for 24 hours with me now, as I think we've excausted all discussion02:00
mkanyicy77why do you think that?02:01
mkanyicy77oh, your please join #ubuntu-ops meant this?02:01
ikoniabecause I don't believe you are genuine in what you're saying and have no real interest in rejoining the channel,02:01
mkanyicy77what do i need to prove to you?02:01
ikoniaI believe at this moment in time you're just trying to argue for fun, as if you wanted to join the channel again , you'd accept your behaviour was wrong and try not to do it again02:02
ikoniathat's my stance on it at the moment based on the discussio02:02
mkanyicy77watch me like a hawk and ban me when get off the line for the whole month02:02
mkanyicy77how about that?02:02
ikoniano, you're banned now, and I don't see a reason for changing it02:02
mkanyicy77that is why i am here02:02
mkanyicy77to convince you to change it02:02
mkanyicy77and everybody knows you are already convinced02:03
ikoniaI gave you multiple chances at the start of this convesation to understand why you where removed and you chose to argue it and continue you argue it and try to deflect attention from yourself on to me, which appeared to be for the fun of an anrgument02:03
ikoniaso I'm going to leave it for 24 hours02:03
mkanyicy77come on!02:03
mkanyicy77thats too much!02:03
ikoniamkanyicy77: I'm not willing to discuss it any more at this time, please leave and come back in 24 hours02:03
mkanyicy77i am not willing to let you be left unwilling to discuss this02:04
elkyWe can make it 48hrs if you want.02:04
mkanyicy77and if you are seeing my efforts in this discussion then mhhmm02:04
ikoniamkanyicy77: please read the topic of this channel. I will not particiapte in this discussion any further at this time02:04
mkanyicy77what topic02:04
mkanyicy77elky, do try to be smart02:05
mkanyicy77its 2402:05
mkanyicy77but that is not fine02:05
mkanyicy77making it 48 will be against the law02:05
ubottuHelp! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  elky, Madpilot, tritium, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow, jpds, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia!02:05
ubottuSeeker` called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()02:05
ubottuogra called the ops in #ubuntu-devel ()02:21
ardchoilleI type in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ and get redirected to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid/Homosapien02:21
ardchoilleWhat's up?02:21
ardchoilleHow do I alert the ubuntu wiki folks about this?02:22
jribardchoille: hmm, not here02:23
PiciWorks fine here too02:23
jribardchoille: are you logged in?02:23
* jrib waits 2 minutes to be logged in02:23
ardchoilleI don't remember setting a home page02:23
* jrib has terrible memories of 56k days02:23
ardchoillejrib:  ouch02:24
jribardchoille: works ok here logged in or not02:24
ardchoillemight be my DNS02:24
ardchoillelogging out worked02:24
ardchoillelogged back in, works fine now02:25
ardchoilleweird. Thanks anyway02:25
PiciIn the future, the folks in #ubuntu-doc might be the people to talk too02:25
ardchoillePici: Ah, thanks for that.02:26
ubottuardchoille called the ops in #ubuntu (casllab)03:20
Dominiancasllab was just muted and removed from ##linux FYI03:21
Dominianits ballsac03:21
bazhangmkanyicy ban dodging04:13
bazhangah he left after the comment04:13
ubottukinja-sheep called the ops in #ubuntu (zewb)04:42
ubottuzewb called the ops in #ubuntu (kinja-sheep)04:43
ubottuzewb called the ops in #ubuntu (krysis)04:43
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from krysis)05:46
Myrttioo, what fun07:07
* Tm_T lost his pc this morning07:27
Tm_Tjussi01: so this iBook is all I got now, thanks once again <307:27
jussi01Tm_T: YW. I still have osx disks on my desk somewhere...07:28
Myrtti!pm > kingsofleon182007:33
Myrttisome weird fluctuation in the fabric of IRC lately08:10
Myrttiall the nutjobs and weird peeps in #ubuntu08:10
wgrantYes... they scare me.08:10
jussi01wait, I thought the nutjobs were in here? :P :P :P08:11
Myrttihm, point to you08:12
* jussi01 hugs Myrtti08:12
MyrttiI have been having dreams of nuking the GuadaLinexs users ISP facility to ground08:12
Myrttiso I guess I qualify as a nutjob08:13
jussi01Myrtti: btw, was real nice to have you and Dunc come up the other week.08:13
jussi01hey highvoltage, around?08:14
* jussi01 hugs Myrtti again08:22
* MenZa joins in on the Myrttihug.09:26
* elky steals Myrtti all for her own.09:27
indushi guys please keep an eye on #ubuntu09:27
MenZaindus: thanks :)09:27
MenZaelky: Butbut :(09:27
* MenZa whimpers.09:28
MenZaMyrtti: You're being fought over!09:28
Myrttiwhoa @ #ubuntu09:29
* elky raises an eyebrow at ikonia.09:29
elkywhat the heck was that?09:29
Myrttioh, crap09:30
* elky cuddles Myrtti.09:30
ikoniait will be fine09:30
ikoniafester64x2 was the "josh" guy from last night09:31
ikoniano he wasnt - I'm wrong09:32
highvoltagejussi01: am now10:11
=== Levia is now known as MrGiggles
=== MrGiggles is now known as Levia
Tm_Tpleia2: about your post in u-irc ml, we should do attack alarms in -irc channel too, would that solve the need?12:50
pleia2Tm_T: it's more subtle than that12:51
Tm_TI know12:51
Tm_Tbut in overall, we should use -irc more12:51
pleia2making the ban tracker public and useful would help12:51
pleia2then when someone joins -women and acts funky we could look up if they've been trouble elsewhere and remove them before they hurt our community12:52
Tm_Ttrue that, and work is going on for it12:52
pleia2instead of having to relearn everything ops here know12:52
Myrttidoes anyone have overmacht-English-overmacht dictionary? I'm a bit loss what he tries to say in -ot12:54
Tm_Tpleia2: so bantracker would solve the thing?12:56
Tm_Tfor that need atleast12:56
pleia2Tm_T: it would help, nothing will be able to replace skimming this channel for rapid fire abusive users12:57
Myrttiright, I'm also officially not getting what aaaoooaaa is about on #ubuntu12:57
Tm_Tpleia2: roger, I'm all for having ops sit here and in -irc12:58
Tm_Ttotally open doors would not be good IMO12:58
elkypleia2, can you make sqlite suck less? :P12:59
Tm_Tand I agree with atoponce that we, especially I, should try not to be intimidating12:59
pleia2elky: it's not really my job to make the technology work :) I am just explaining what would be helpful13:00
jussi01elky: she is pleia2, not supergirl... and Im not even sure supergirl could sort that13:01
ikoniaI wonder the options to port it to mysql and look at multisite-write replication13:01
Myrttioh look, it's the scruffy lookin nerf herder ;-)13:01
Tm_Tjussi01: well, someone might consider princess Leia ver.2 as supergirl...13:01
elkypleia2, yeah i know :P13:01
Tm_TMyrtti: nerfs... yuck13:02
TheSheepikonia: multisite replication w mysql?13:02
ikoniaTheSheep: mysql replication, with multiple write nodes13:03
MenZaTm_T: +1 on the intimidating bit13:03
MenZathat's the sole problem I'm seeing with this channel, tbh13:03
ikoniaTheSheep: when a box goes down we currently suffer from using either a read only or out of date copy13:03
MyrttiI continue to ponder the benefits of being flooded with hecklers13:04
MenZaikonia: I download ubottu.db hourly13:04
TheSheepikonia: using mysqlproxy?13:04
Tm_TMenZa: and no amount of idlers would fix that13:04
MenZaTm_T: agreed13:04
ikoniaTheSheep: that's one way, there is the cluster option which I believe can now do multi-write13:04
MenZawhich is why I'm not fond of any of the current propositions13:04
Tm_Ttopyli said it well13:05
* MenZa might drop his formal attitude a bit for a more "yo, sup"-kinda attitude13:05
ikoniaMenZa: the danger with that is that people then miss-quote you or use it against you13:05
Tm_TMenZa: your soup -attitude?13:05
Myrttiand including the missunderstandings due to language barriers13:06
MenZaikonia: well, that was a bit of hyperbole. I could substitute "Hi $nick, how can we help you today?" with "Hey $nick - anything we can do for you?"13:06
ikoniaMenZa: that's fine, but when it gets into a discussion about the problem in the channel/user it's thrown back at you13:06
MenZaNot that it *really* makes a difference, but I can, to an extent, agree with the intimidation/elitist issues some people are pointing out, and would love to be rid of them13:06
ikoniaback in 213:06
MenZaikonia: I don't see how the above could be used against me :P13:06
MenZaunless someone was really silly.13:07
ikonianeed to be %101 clear13:15
tsimpsonMenZa: part of the "problem" is that ops are, by definition, an "elite" group of people13:18
tsimpsonbecause we need to be13:18
tsimpsonthough there is probably more we can do to make that not impact users too much13:19
Tm_Twe should stick with 'be a good examp13:20
Tm_Tle' mantra13:20
Myrttiheads up, we've got russian mirc warriors13:24
Myrttimight hit the fan any moment now13:24
ubottullutz called the ops in #ubuntu (Fatality office69)13:26
Myrttianyone using Konversation anymore? sebsebseb reports that quiets show up on it as giving channel ownership13:30
Tm_TMyrtti: yes, many13:30
Tm_TMyrtti: I'll pass that on13:31
Myrtti[15:28] <sebsebseb> surely it shoudn't say that, the floodbot has done it,  and then your doing it as well [13:25] *** Myrtti gives  channel owner privileges to Fatality!*@*.13:31
tsimpsonI think someone already told sho about it, or were going to tell him13:35
MyrttiTm_T: could you message him? he's having a flaky day13:35
Tm_TMyrtti: Seb?13:36
MyrttiI feel like playing Banzai the game13:37
Myrtti"how long will they stay in the channel?! bets in NAO!"13:37
Myrttian the answer was one minute!13:38
MyrttiAL^3QRAB heads up14:01
Myrttithat was fun14:08
PiciAnyone want to try their chance at telling hamzaatova1 to be less annoying?14:09
Myrttichristel, would you please have someone look at one ip14:09
jussi01Ladies and gents, as part of the op changes we should ahve a few people joining here in the near future who will need +v added. (as ops in core chans are now required to idle here). if someone needs +v, please refer them to any of the ircc. Cheers!14:13
Tm_Tjussi01: even if is op in one core channel?14:16
jussi01Tm_T: correct. its in the op requirements doc14:17
jussi01core chans are defined here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/Scope14:17
Tm_Toh, then I did read it wrong, I thought that was only requirement if one is part of core-ops team14:17
Tm_Tjussi01: anyway, poke me when core-ops team is open for applications (;14:18
jussi01Tm_T: still a bit more documentation to write for that14:18
Piciis !dist-ugprade worded well, or does it need a little bit of a rewrite to be clearer?14:19
ubottuA dist-upgrade will install new dependencies for packages already installed and may remove packages if they are no longer needed. Please see !upgrade for the proper release upgrade methods.14:19
Tm_Tbtw, anyone know what is current channel limit?14:19
PiciTm_T: 12014:19
Tm_TPici: roger, so not hitting that yet14:20
Tm_TI assume there's no way to get it higher14:20
PiciI'm not sure, you'd have to bug staff14:20
PiciI'm hovering near half of that14:20
ubottuThere are some Ubuntu derivatives that we cannot provide support for due to repository and software changes. Please consult their websites for more information. Examples: gNewSense (support in #gnewsense), Linux Mint (see !mintsupport), LinuxMCE (support in #linuxmce), crunchbang (support in #crunchbang), BackTrack (support in #remote-exploit)14:21
jussi01!mint =~ s/#remote-exploit/#backtrack-linux/14:24
ubottuNothing changed there14:24
Myrttioh, have they changed channel?14:24
ubottumint is <alias> derivatives - added by LjL on 2008-01-24 22:57:2714:24
jussi01oh duh14:24
ubottuThere are some Ubuntu derivatives that we cannot provide support for due to repository and software changes. Please consult their websites for more information. Examples: gNewSense (support in #gnewsense), Linux Mint (see !mintsupport), LinuxMCE (support in #linuxmce), crunchbang (support in #crunchbang), BackTrack (support in #remote-exploit)14:24
jussi01!derivatives =~ s/#remote-exploit/#backtrack-linux/14:24
ubottuI'll remember that jussi0114:24
ubottuThere are some Ubuntu derivatives that we cannot provide support for due to repository and software changes. Please consult their websites for more information. Examples: gNewSense (support in #gnewsense), Linux Mint (see !mintsupport), LinuxMCE (support in #linuxmce), crunchbang (support in #crunchbang), BackTrack (support in #backtrack-linux)14:24
jussi01Myrtti: seems so14:25
Myrttireading the mailing list makes me depressed14:26
Myrttitime for hot chocolate, I think.14:26
geniiMmmmmm hot chocolate14:30
MenZaThe mailing list makes me want coffee.14:50
MenZaLots and lots of coffee.14:50
MenZajussi01: !derivatives =~ s/crunchbang /CrunchBang /14:51
Pici!derivatives =~ s/crunchbang /CrunchBang /14:52
ubottuI'll remember that Pici14:52
MenZaThankye, Pici.14:52
geniiMenZa: Aye15:02
genii"The mailing list makes me want coffee"15:03
* genii makes a large pot of it15:03
* MenZa reads, shudders.15:03
bazhangeverything makes you want coffee :)15:03
MenZaYes... but this is hard to swallow.15:03
bazhanguh not you MenZa :)15:04
MenZaNot me personally.15:04
MenZaOh, genii.15:04
MenZaWell, me too.15:04
* MenZa hugs genii.15:04
bazhangthe coffee bit :)15:04
geniiAt any rate I don't think spawning new channels for observers is an answer15:10
bazhangCarlFK, hi15:13
CarlFKwhat is a "core op" ?15:13
ikoniacore ubuntu channels #ubuntu / #kubuntu / #xubuntu etc15:14
MTecknologySo I just tried to reply to that big thread with my own personal opinion and it was lost... apparently I found a bug somewhere...15:16
MenZaMTecknology: Eh? What was lost? Where? What?15:17
MTecknologyMy thought was -ops get's +m and ops get +o; then anyone can talk in here to ops but there won't be any chit chat..15:17
MenZaNoone can talk if there's +m :)15:17
MTecknology+z is applied to this channel already15:18
MTecknologyMenZa: I spent an hour writing an email, I got logged out of my openbox session as the email was sending15:18
MenZaMTecknology: Ow.15:19
MenZaMTecknology: If +z is applied, then how can I see what you're saying? :)15:19
MenZaOh, wait15:19
MenZa+zm combo15:19
MTecknology+mz ... lol "M"en"Z"a ... would let anyone coming in talk to anyone that's +o and anyone +o can talk to anyone15:19
MenZaAye; I believe it's already been mentioned in Juha's original e-mail.15:19
MTecknologyI missed that then15:20
MTecknologyI also mentioned that -irc is a great place for any other ops to discuss issues and learn how to handle things better.15:20
MTecknologyI think some ops forget that the channel is used - but it is under used...15:21
* MenZa nods15:21
MenZaMan, that thread is growing huge.15:21
MTecknologyIt's also a great place for ban forwards in non-core channels15:21
MTecknologyI've used it for that15:21
MTecknologythen I compared #ubuntu-ircc to #freenode-staff15:22
topyliMenZa, the next meeting is two weeks away. the thread has plenty of time to grow still! :)15:22
MenZatopyli: heh15:22
MenZatopyli: That's what I'm afraid of.15:22
MenZaMostly because it's going slightly offtopic.15:23
Tm_TI haven't had chance to write my thoughts yet15:23
MenZatopyli: Date of next meeting?15:23
Tm_Tbut when I do, free hugs available15:23
topyliit's mostly growing because it's a cesspool of all sorts of suggestions. if we were on topic (no-idle policy), things might be just a little bit easier15:23
bazhangha. Chinese New Year's Eve15:24
MenZaHappy new year, bazhang!15:24
topyliinstead, we're talking about whether or not we're friendly15:24
bazhangthe 13th15:24
MenZatopyli: aye.15:24
Tm_Ttopyli: I'm not surprised15:25
MenZatopyli: As I understand Pricey's suggestion with the loungy thing you replied to, the structure would be what exactly? With what channels serving what purpose?15:26
MenZaPricey, you're more than welcome to jump in on this one too :)15:26
CarlFKI read in there "now *every* core op is required to be there [here]"  so I am guessing there are some new rules I should know about.  anyone know what I am talking about?15:26
MenZaCarlFK: Well, it's pretty simple. Core ops are required to idle here. )15:26
CarlFKMenZa: im wondering what else I missed.15:27
MTecknologymy opinion in the email came to: -ops +mz; -ops ops +o; allow idle; utilize -irc as appropriate; the channels already have their purpose pretty well defined here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam#Meet%20us15:27
Tm_Ttsimpson: msg me about those launchpad team renewals with explanation when you have time, please15:27
MTecknologyalso that the channels are used mostly appropriately and -irc is under utilized15:28
Tm_TI really don't see how allowing people to idle here would solve anything15:28
topyliMenZa, how i see it: the lounge channel would be a non-logged ops lounge for everything that doesn't involve users. bot tips. how to use auto_bleh.pl. the weather in denmark. whether bourbon is real whiskey or not. mentoring new ops. most of the stuff we have here now15:28
MTecknologyAnd.. should -irc be the place where this discussion takes place?15:29
Pici-irc is -ops for non-core channels.15:29
MTecknologyPici: but -irc allows idling for anyone15:29
MenZatopyli: And the mediation/dispute resolution channel would be open?15:29
PiciI'd be willing to trial letting idlers in here for a month, but I don't think it will go well.15:30
topyliMenZa, no idea. maybe we'll move everything to queries and disputes suddenly cease to exist!15:30
MenZawell, I like the idea of a seperate channel.15:30
MTecknologyanyway- I voiced my opinion; little as mine matters; ttyal15:31
MenZaall opinions matter :(15:31
PiciI don't like the idea of moving everything to queries.  I like being able to see that topyli is being a jerk to a user and being able to take him aside to talk to him.15:31
Tm_TI really think all ops should be in -irc, core or not15:31
MenZaTm_T: Agreed.15:31
Tm_TPici: yes15:31
* MenZa checks to see if he's in it.15:31
ubottuIn #xubuntu, og_steve said: !ask is x/ubuntu compatible with intel pentium m processors?15:31
topyliPici, indeed15:31
MenZaIt's on my autojoin list, but I have so many channels to join it leaves some out.15:31
MenZaIncluding -ops.15:32
MenZaPici: I agree.15:32
MenZaPici: For the record, your intrusion in ikonia's dispute resolution earlier was not uncalled for, in my opinion.15:32
Tm_TMenZa: leaves out?15:32
MenZaTm_T: Doesn't join them. Creates the window and everything, but it doesn't join them.15:32
CarlFKMenZa: I think freenode limits you to 20 channels15:33
PiciCarlFK: its 120 now15:33
MenZaCarlFK: I have a usermode that sets my limit abit hig--really, Pici?15:33
Tm_TMenZa: why it doesn't join to them?15:33
MenZaTm_T: Iono.15:33
CarlFKMenZa: you are in way too many channels :)15:33
Tm_TCarlFK: I'm in roughly 60 channels or something15:33
bazhangtis 120 now15:34
jpds120 folks!15:34
MenZathis is awesome.15:35
MenZaI approve!15:35
MenZaI wish there was an irssi script that would allow me to reserve blocks of channels (e.g. [1-10]) for certain networks.15:35
PiciWhat is ithingLinux going on about?16:14
tonyyarussono idea16:15
bazhanghe is at it again?16:16
PiciI don't know, theres a heavy language barrier.16:16
bazhangI removed him once already and he is asking if I am an operator16:20
bazhangseems more than a language barrier at work here16:20
bazhangvmware macos is hackintosh, correct?16:28
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from ithinglinux)16:28
Myrttiikonia: did you notice JayCool failing in hilighting you in -ot16:57
PiciIs he supposed to be banned or something?16:58
bazhangCarlFK, and dholbach should be +v per jussi01 , correct?16:58
ikoniaI didn't16:58
ikoniaMyrtti: he's banned from #u - not -ot, I'll check him out in -ot16:58
Myrttiikonia: I know :-)16:59
ikoniaahh cool, thanks for the heads up16:59
ikoniadidn't notice him in #ubuntu until just now though17:00
ikoniajaycool is now discussing his ban with jono bacon (I doubt it) please be aware if this escalates17:06
* Pici blinks17:10
Myrttiescalation ftw...17:11
ikoniaempty blind threats for fail17:17
Myrttimy fantasies of putting a small detonation device on the premises of the trunk line provider of spain grows17:34
jpdsMyrtti: Actually, no.17:36
jpdsMyrtti: Spain's inet links suck so much you'd only need a very, very small device.17:37
Myrttioh god17:51
PiciI need to eat because I have a meeting in 5 minutes, can't be babysitting #ubuntu now17:55
* ikonia babysites17:56
PiciFabioTheApe will be removed eventually, he can't stay on-topic.17:57
ikoniait appears that way17:57
geniiHm. zealot17:57
ikonia= toast17:57
geniiHehe "I don't need 5 spamming me..." etc... then floodbot gets him17:59
ubottuzealot called the ops in #ubuntu (LjL)18:00
Myrttiif he's running ubuntu, rm rf shouldnt do anything, right?18:00
ikoniacorrect, core utils protects it18:00
dsfdsfeeUbuntu likes it up the ass18:01
ubottudsfdsfee called the ops in #kubuntu ()18:04
ubottudsfdsfee called the ops in #ubuntu+1 ()18:04
ikoniahow tedious18:05
ubottuFrots called the ops in #ubuntu ()18:07
ikoniaignore it18:07
ikonianice tidying up tsimpson18:10
tsimpsonk-lined trumps +b any day :)18:11
ikoniabut nice house keeping18:11
PiciI asked FabioTheApe to join here. I have a meeting I'm supposed to be in.18:23
PiciSo someone else can take care of it18:23
geniiClaviceps seems to be making the rounds18:27
genii( first in #u then #k, wouldn't be surprised if #x is next)18:27
jpdsapplecat is being daft.18:32
ikoniano problem18:33
ubottuIn ubottu, ivan__ said: here is link of my sound card18:52
geniiPici: Fabio seems a no-show18:54
Picigenii: aye18:54
mneptok11:57 [Freenode] -!- WHOIS This command could not be completed because it has been used recently, and is rate-limited.18:58
mneptokwhat. the. frack?!18:58
PiciI got that yesterday out of the blue, haven't been able to recreate it though.18:58
Myrttiif you whois same person twice in short delay, it does that18:59
Myrttiit's ratelimited, as it says.18:59
mneptokand that's a terrible idea. /whois is very, very hand in crafting banmasks, etc.18:59
PiciMyrtti: to make things confusing, chrome calls their devel branch the dev channel.19:01
Myrttiwhat does jordy240 actually mean? can't make heads or tails19:01
Myrttihm. my suspicion is that jaycool is bandodging on #ubuntu19:05
PiciI do not see him in #ubuntu19:05
* Myrtti considers19:06
Picijaycool was coming from an adsl connection, this guy is ppp, and different ident19:06
PiciI don't have the realname logged though19:07
MyrttiJayCool [~jared@] vs. jared [~jared@] vs. jared is now known as JayCool vs. JrodDCx [~jared@ppp-71-128-216-34.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net] vs. jared is now known as JrodDCxx19:08
Myrtticircumstatial, I know, but why did he do /me hugs ikonia?19:08
MyrttiI don't know19:09
* Pici tempts19:09
Myrttiit's the nuthouse19:16
Myrttithere's some mirc warriors again on the channel19:52
Picilooks like staff is taking care of them19:53
Picis/is/are/ maybe19:53
MyrttiMovies and blacks have mirctr as their  ident as well19:53
Myrttithey've not been klined yet19:53
Myrttiand mastercard19:53
Tm_Tsee their "realname"19:53
Piciits blue19:54
MyrttiI'm not happy with this19:54
Tm_Tand it's identical19:54
PiciFeel free to +b $r:mirctr*19:55
* Tm_T loves that he sees "realname" at join19:55
* Pici turns on auto_realname again, forgets why he turned it off20:05
Myrttiit made me lag a bit, or something did20:05
Myrttiand I don't know how auto_realname works now with the restrictions on /whois20:05
Tm_TMyrtti: haven't got issues with it yet20:06
PiciOh rght.  I vaugely remember that I told you something about it... but I don't remember what.20:06
Myrttithese bots joining in and quitting on themselves really make me nervous20:06
PiciMyrtti: ban them then20:07
MyrttiI'm not that intrested20:20
PiciMeh, this autorealname thing is annoying.  It looks like if the request gets throttled it tries again and then displays $nick is $name on a separate line20:21
Myrttiyeah, that might have been the reason I stopped using it20:22
Tm_Thmm, I wonder what I use20:24
Tm_Tah, joininfo.pl20:24
* Pici loads20:24
Tm_Tnever had single problem with this20:25
Tm_TI just set it to show only realname, not the other info20:25
Piciits doing it again20:25
Tm_TI don't even have difficulties when there's mass joins ):20:26
PiciTm_T: How many channels are you in?20:29
jussi01wow, Im in 62...20:30
MyrttiI'm on 16 on this network, and one bitlbee.20:31
geniiGah, 6220:31
PiciOnly 54 windows open right now.20:31
Tm_TPici: in freenode? close to 5020:32
geniiI'm in 24 channels with another 8 on standby that I pop in and out...20:32
mneptok /w 7582320:41
Tm_T/w mneptok20:42
* Tm_T hides20:42
* Myrtti bashes head on keyboard20:54
MyrttiI give up, I raise my hands and I give up20:55
MyrttiI honestly can't remember why I'm doing this20:57
MenZaI win. 230.21:00
Myrttiwhat you people need is life21:01
Myrttinot any new irssi scripts21:01
PiciI only pay attention to about 20 of mine.21:01
MenZaMyrtti: I resent that. :(21:01
Myrttiuser told me he didn't say rm -rf on the channel. it was one of his multiple personalities21:05
Myrttiand it's his troll personality that did it.21:06
Seeker`Ban the troll personality then21:06
Pici#ubuntu isn't a psychological support channel21:06
Myrttioh. looky that21:07
Myrttitroll ident.21:07
Myrttiand he's threatening to do banevasion21:07
MyrttiI give up21:07
Myrttioh yay, atleast I wasn't told I'm a ******* ***** in pm21:08
Myrtti!guidelines > a3544121:09
MyrttiI can't even make the bot send him the guidelines21:09
geniiMyrtti: Fastest gun there to "change your nick"  (masturbate)21:12
* Myrtti facepalms repeatedly21:12
MyrttiI give up21:12
ubottuLjL called the ops in #ubuntu (Guest58005)21:14
geniiHow the hell is he still there?21:14
Myrttione of those mirctr types again21:20
MenZaIs #u going nuts?21:20
MyrttiI'm off to bed21:20
MyrttiMenZa: yes21:20
* MenZa hugs Myrtti, genii; supplies with tea and coffee respectively.21:20
* genii hugs MenZa, waves to Myrtti, sips his coffee, and tries not to hear his boss yelling down the hall for him21:22
SpaceGhostC2CHello, can I get any help in a problem in the mailing lists?21:26
MenZaSpaceGhostC2C: This isn't exactly the place; what sort of problem are you talking about?21:27
SpaceGhostC2CMyrtti, Do you know if there are any moderators that I could contact about the ubuntu community mailing list?21:27
MenZaSpaceGhostC2C: Myrtti isn't around right now.21:27
SpaceGhostC2CMenZa, I'm sorry. I've looked everywhere about it. I can't find any report or mailing system or anything.21:28
MenZaSpaceGhostC2C: Well, jussi01 is the admin of the IRC list.21:28
SpaceGhostC2CCan he help with the community mailing list?21:29
MenZaWhat problem are you having with what list?21:29
MenZaThere are several, er, community mailing lists.21:29
SpaceGhostC2CRegarding user offense and lack of mods?21:29
MenZaThat's seven different lists.21:29
SpaceGhostC2Csorry one sec.21:30
MenZaubuntu-users, edubuntu-users, etc.21:30
MenZaSpaceGhostC2C: I suggest you send an e-mail to the following people about that: mako at ubuntu.com, brian.murray at ubuntu.com, alan at popey.com, lyz at ubuntu.com, mike.basinger at gmail.com21:30
MenZaSpaceGhostC2C: If you look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users, at the bottom21:31
MenZaYou can see who's running each individual list21:31
SpaceGhostC2CMenZa, thanks. Sorry for not seeing that.21:31
MenZaYou can catch popey, pleia2 on IRC21:31
MenZa(the others are undoubtedly on too, but I don't know their nicks)21:31
MenZapopey, pleia2: are either of you around to assist SpaceGhostC2C?21:31
pleia2the owners address for that list works too :)21:31
MenZaexcellent - SpaceGhostC2C, popey will be your guide from here!21:31
MenZapleia2: or that, yeah :)21:32
popeyindeed, send to mailinglistname-owner21:32
MenZaubuntu-users-owner@lists.ubuntu.com is what you want then, SpaceGhostC2C21:32
popeythanks MenZa21:32
popeywe welcome mails to be honest as making that list better is a real work-in-progress21:33
SpaceGhostC2CHey. I did popey.21:36
SpaceGhostC2CThanks, I hope it gets answered soon. I just want the list not to have users that are consistently arguing. There's a lot to the problem, and it needs fixing. Even if it means I get expelled from the list.21:37
righteoushi.  one of your ops is severely abusing his permissions in #ubuntu, can I get intervention, here?21:37
popeythanks for letting us know21:37
righteousop nick is mneptok21:38
SpaceGhostC2Cpopey, no thank you sir. This has just been very stressful. One user has a vendetta against myself and posts things like "Don't listen to this child, he knows nothing."21:38
mneptokrighteous: i warned you several times about your attitude. eventually i kicked you as a warning. you persisted. now you're banned.21:38
righteousuhm.  i dont have an attitude, i think there is some kind of language barrier, here.21:39
mneptok14:28 < righteous> mneptok: ehm, I'm speaking english, right?  I'm using ubuntu right now, but im primarily a slackware user.21:39
popeySpaceGhostC2C: lets take this to #ubuntu-mailinglists21:39
mneptok14:28 < righteous> mneptok: please read a little closer if you intend on enforcing rules.21:39
popeyand leave these irc people to do their stuff.21:39
righteouscan I get some intervention here, please?21:40
mneptoki then asked you to watch your attitude.21:40
mneptok14:29 < righteous> mneptok: sorry, I just would expect an op to pay better attention.21:40
MenZarighteous, mneptok: Let me check up on the logs, I'll be a third-party here, if neither of you mind?21:40
righteousi dont mind, and thank you.21:40
MenZaAlright, hold on :)21:40
mneptokrighteous: "sorry" usually means you realize you're doing something wrong, and plan on not repeating the behavior.21:41
righteousalso, MenZa my solution would be to lift the ban and just have me put him on ignore so that his feelings dont get hurt anymore.  I think there's uhm...an 'issue' that was there before I got here ;)21:42
righteousIf that makes sense.21:42
MenZaLet's not jump to conclusions before I read these logs properly.21:42
mneptokputting ops on /ignore is a bad idea.21:42
MenZaRight, could you explain the situation from the beginning as you see it, righteous?21:43
righteousmneptok: when users have to walk on eggshells around the ego/feelings of an op, putting that op on ignore is the best idea.21:43
MenZaGentlemen, hold your horses. :)21:43
righteousMenZa: yup.  i was troubleshooting an issue (i just installed ubuntu to test it, im a slackware user), I explained that I'm not terribly ubuntu-familiar and that im a slackware user, he took it as me being in an ubuntu channel asking slackware questions (what?) and then made a statement that would encourage users not to help me because i was using slackware.  even though I wasn't.  I asked him politely to read closer 21:46
righteousi mean he literally intejected the discussion i was having with another user to tell me to go to another channel.  how could he troubleshoot a complex issue if he's not able to tell what distro a user is on?21:47
righteousanyway, regardless, i'd like to just have him on ignore and he does his thing, but i need to be in that channel.21:47
MenZaHold on, hold on -- just reading up. Almost done. :)21:48
MenZaRight, having read up on the logs, I see it as a small misunderstanding on mneptok's side, and a bit of mouthiness on your side.21:49
righteouswell yeah, but i can be mouthy.21:49
righteousyou guys have ops so you can keep big disruptions out of your channel.  thats why they're there.21:49
MenZaI'd recommend keeping a clear, sober tone in #ubuntu and related channels -- misunderstandings like this are more likely to appear21:50
righteousthis was not a big disruption.21:50
mneptokand i asked you not to be. and you persisted. accept the consequences.21:50
righteoushe's not my employer, my mother, he's an op on an irc channel.21:50
MenZaagain, calm down guys -- this isn't resolving anything21:50
mneptokand that channel has rules and guidelienes. and not being mouthy and making personal attacks are among the rules.21:50
macoMenZa: you could quiet them both til you're done reading ;)21:50
MenZarighteous: The Ubuntu channels are moderated on the base of a consensus. Basically, we agree to keep the channels tidy -- every one of us -- and if a user asks you to perhaps tone it down a bit, then you do so. Regardless of their op status.21:51
MenZaLike I said, it seems as if there's been a bit of a misunderstanding from both parties.21:51
righteousMenZa: i was not lude or vile in any sense of the imagination; as for 'toning it down' thats like my neighbor calling the police because my microwave hummed too loud.21:51
MenZarighteous: Your attitude wasn't particularly cooperative.21:52
righteousno it wasn't.21:52
righteousso can you please lift the ban?21:52
MenZaI can't, it's mneptok's ban, and I have no force over it.21:52
MenZaI'm merely trying to be an outside third party here.21:53
righteousthen why did you ...21:53
righteouswhat is wrong with this place?21:53
righteouswho has discretion over this?21:53
righteousI mean I could evade the ban and just not tell him, but i'd really like to not have to do that just to write an editorial.21:54
MenZaThat depends on what you mean by that, exactly.21:54
MenZarighteous: Ban evasion is against freenode policy, and could get you K-lined.21:54
MenZaI wouldn't recommend it.21:54
righteousYou wouldn't even know, dude.21:54
righteousBut thats not what I'm saying.21:54
righteousIs this really how you want your distro to be represented?21:55
MenZaI think we're representing our distro well. I'm proud of it, and I know everyone else in here is.21:55
righteous...lol...mind if I publicize these logs?21:55
MenZaThey already are public.21:56
macorighteous: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/02/02/21:56
righteousfuck it, I'll just evade the ban.  you won't know.21:56
MenZahttp://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/02/02/%23ubuntu-ops.html <- This is today's log, feel free to browse at your perusal.21:56
MenZarighteous: You're not helping yourself.21:56
macorighteous: please don't swear. and if you ebade the ban freenode staff may ban you from teh server, so....21:56
righteouswhat part of 'you wont fucking know' dont you understand?21:56
MenZaThat wasn't a clever move.21:57
macowhat part of "please don't swear" did they no understand?21:57
* Seeker` watches #ubuntu joins21:57
MenZaI got his realname, host, and everything in that21:57
MenZamaco: Well, sources (thanks, LjL/mneptok by proxy) tell me he's a known troll, so there's not much to do there, I suppose.21:58
mneptokit's not really his fault, though. Slackware makes you a bitter misanthrope.21:59
* mneptok goes to shower and order some Icelandic currency22:00
MenZaI think he wanted me to swear at him or ban him or something, eventually got fed up and went on a swear spree.22:00
* MenZa strokes his PhD in Trolldom.22:00
MenZaWell, I'm discovering one thing recently. The state of freenode is a pretty damn good reflection of the state of the global economy.22:02
geniiHm. "zealot" in #u but not sure if same from earlier22:04
MenZaWas said zealot kicked, banned?22:05
MenZaCheck them against the BT22:05
Seeker`hi righteous, how can we help you?22:17
righteoushi Seeker`22:18
righteousim trying to get ahold of the maintainer of the channel.22:18
Seeker`of which channel?22:18
righteousoh, #ubuntu.22:18
Seeker`the operators here are responsible for the day-to-day running of the channel22:18
righteoushow does that all work, anyway?22:18
righteousoh ok.  can you lift my ban?22:18
ikoniarighteous: no22:19
Seeker`It is up to the op that banned you to remove the ban22:19
ikoniarighteous: you kept using offensive language and told it "fuck it I'll ban evade"22:19
Seeker`I am not fully aware of the situation, and wouldn't want to step on other people's toes22:19
righteousah.  well the op that banned me did so for inappropriate reasons and I'd like an administrator to intervene.22:19
ikoniarighteous: you've had people intervene and explain the situation to it22:20
MenZa!appeals | righteous22:20
ubotturighteous: If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.22:20
ikoniathats when you started using abusive language and told us you would ban evade22:20
ikoniarighteous: that attitude will not get you your ban lifted22:20
righteousikonia: actually, I did evade the ban.22:20
righteousthis is the internet.22:20
ikoniarighteous: no problem then I'll report that to freenode now and you're ban is to remain in place22:20
righteousanyway, yes I'll check out that appeal process.22:21
righteousikonia: report away, but that ban was inappropriate.22:21
ikoniarighteous: I'll make a note to the appeals process people about your attitude also22:21
ikoniarighteous: it's not your position to decide if the ban is appropriate and evade it22:21
righteoususing your ops to flame someone and then ban them for responding is just not done.22:21
jribrighteous: ban evasion isn't the proper response, especially after you were told as much22:21
righteousof course its my position.22:21
righteouslook, I did.22:21
ikoniarighteous: this conversation is done - I'll take this up with freenode22:21
righteousso it was my position22:21
righteousjust as its your position to ban me.22:21
righteousyour position to ban me, my position to evade it.22:22
MenZaWe've already gone over this. If you wish to appeal your ban, righteous, do so by the channels listed on the above link.22:22
ikoniarighteous: please leave the channel, while you are evading bans we will not progress this22:22
SpaceGhostC2CSorry for butting in, but this isn't chess righteous22:22
righteousMenZa: thank you, I'll use that process.22:22
SpaceGhostC2CI'll leave now, I just noticed I'm still here.22:22
ikoniaSpaceGhostC2C: please leave the channel if you have no other need for operator assistnace22:22
righteousikonia: but can you prove i evaded the ban?22:22
Seeker`SpaceGhostC2C: thanks22:22
SpaceGhostC2Cikonia, I am sir. I didn't know I was still here.22:22
ikoniarighteous: you just admited it22:22
righteousor are you whining about something you made up?22:22
righteousbut does that mean I did it?22:23
ikoniarighteous: you just told us you did, so that's enough22:23
righteousof course not.22:23
ikoniaSpaceGhostC2C: no problem22:23
righteoushow old are you?22:23
ikoniarighteous: then you are silly for telling lies22:23
righteoussure, sure.22:23
ikoniarighteous: this conversaiton is over - please leave22:23
righteousbut i evaded it.22:23
ikonia!staff | righteous ban evading - admiting it and trolling22:23
ubotturighteous ban evading - admiting it and trolling: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, PriceChild, niko or stew, I could use a bit of your time :)22:23
righteouslift my inappropriate ban that i tried to discuss with you.22:24
ikoniarighteous: this conversation is over22:24
ikoniaplease leave the channel22:24
MenZarighteous: The appeals process is outlined in the link ubottu send you. If that's all we can do for you, please adhere to the rules of this channel (listed in the /topic).22:24
righteousno its not.  ill have this discussion as many users from as many parts of the world I have patience for.22:24
ikonia!ops | righteous22:24
ubotturighteous: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  elky, Madpilot, tritium, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow, jpds, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia!22:24
ubottuikonia called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (righteous)22:24
nikorighteous: do you take a look at freenode policies ?22:25
righteousSomeone who's got the discretion, lift my ban and stop treating your users like kids.22:25
righteousniko: im aware.22:25
ubottuHelp! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  elky, Madpilot, tritium, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow, jpds, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia!22:25
nikorighteous: if you are banned from a channel, don't evade it, it's against freenode policies22:25
ubotturighteous called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()22:25
nikoafter that, if you can't discuss with operators of the channel, try with founder, or ask again in few days22:26
righteousniko: the reason for the ban is inappropriate, and I tried to discuss it with the op who made the ban, and tried to get intervention.22:26
MenZarighteous: You've exhausted steps 1--3 in your appeals process, please see step 4 here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess22:27
righteoushere's my stance on that.  your bans are petty.  they are ineffective.  i will have no problems entering the channel.  what i would like is for the ban to be lifted so that I don't have to evade it and we can all start fresh.22:27
ikoniarighteous: please leave the channel22:28
righteousits really a difference of a few keystrokes when i enter the channel.  you'll never know.  but i'd like to not have to.22:28
ikoniarighteous: follow the appeals process we can take this no further now, and I refuse to after you ban evading22:28
righteousno, im not doing your appeals process.  i want you to do it.22:28
ikoniarighteous: then freenode can deal with you22:28
ikoniacan someone please remove righteous22:28
righteousikonia: how would they know?22:28
righteoustell me that.22:28
MenZarighteous: Well, niko *is* a freenode staffer.22:28
righteousyou reallyhaven't thought this through.22:28
ikoniarighteous: it's not lifted with your current attitude - please leave22:28
Seeker`niko: please can you remove righteous from the channel22:28
righteousthats great, she's a staffer.  but can you verify that im currently evading the ban?22:29
righteousif you ban me, ill still be in #ubuntu.22:29
righteousand you'll never know.22:29
ikonianot interested22:29
ikoniacome back when you can discuss it with out language/attitude/ban/evasion22:29
nikorighteous: rolf22:30
* niko give mneptok a http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml link22:30
mneptokniko: if only i had the time ...22:30
nikoi wonders why core ops aren't op here22:30
MenZaniko: well, freenode frowns on auto ops ;)22:31
ikoniathank you - I don't speak for the other ops, but I'll make it clear, I won't discuss ban removal while someone is bragging about about evading22:31
nikoMenZa: not auto op, simply have op access22:31
MenZaniko: ah22:31
ikonianiko: legacy22:31
ikoniamneptok: thank you for stepping in22:31
MenZaikonia: I tried to have patience with him the first time round.22:31
Seeker`That took about 1000000000x as much effort as it should have gone:22:31
ikoniaSeeker`: concur22:31
Seeker`r: Seeker` please remove my ban22:31
MenZaikonia: The second time round, I would've liked him removed immediately after having received Appeals guidelines.22:31
Seeker`me: No, other ops ban22:32
Seeker`please see !appeals22:32
Seeker`r: blah blah blah blah blah22:32
MenZaSeeker`: Did you see his previous trollfest?22:32
Seeker`at which point he should have either left or been removed22:32
MenZaSeeker`: Agreed on that.22:32
ikoniajimcooncat on the same ip in #ubuntu22:32
ikoniait's him22:32
Seeker`there is seriously 0 point in getting in to a discussion like we just did, with everyone jumping in22:32
ikoniasorry - different ip22:33
ikonianot him22:33
MenZaSeeker`: absolutely agreed. I would've preferred a faster remove also.22:33
* MenZa nurses his head.22:33
Seeker`if someone has a problem with a ban like that, they need to go through appeals. At which point, no amount of arguing in here will change anything.22:33
ikoniato be honest - they don't22:33
mneptokcheck by realname22:34
ikoniathrowing !appeals at everyone who is not happy with resolution straight away is just going to make it impossible22:34
mneptok"Chris Punches"22:34
mneptokand he's again telling me he's currently evading in PM22:34
Seeker`ikonia: there was a clear consensus with the ops in here that he should have been removed from the channel22:34
Seeker`ikonia: noone will remove his ban. The only way for a semi-peaceful resolution at that point is the appeals process22:35
ikoniaI disagree22:35
Seeker`I wasn't going to remove the ban, you weren't going to remove the ban, he would just continue arguing until we gave in. Which we weren't going to do.22:35
ikoniathrowing the appeals process to someone bragging about evading the ban is a waste of effort22:35
MenZaAlas, something we have to do.22:36
MenZaAnd, really -- it doesn't take much effort. The whole discussion we went into did.22:36
Seeker`he was unhappy with an operator decision22:36
Seeker`he cam here, he still wasn't happy22:36
MenZaSeeker`: And he'd complained about it, and he swore, spat, and said he'd ban evade.22:36
Seeker`at which point, he needs to look at the appeals process page22:36
ikoniathat wasn't uphappy22:36
ikoniathat was being an issue22:37
ikoniaif you're unhappy you appeal22:37
ikoniaif you're breaking the network policy - you don't get anything until you calm down22:37
MenZaHe won't appeal, in any case. He's a troll, escalating a tiny little issue to this.22:37
mneptok15:36 [Freenode] [righteous(~righteous@pool-72-65-104-97.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net)] < ekim> IdleOne,  I am just happy I dont have these problems...of course, I dont do22:37
mneptok15:36 [Freenode] [righteous(~righteous@pool-72-65-104-97.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net)]               much with this Ubuntu yet!22:37
ikoniaI know he won't appeal, but I didn't think the process was to throw appeal to everyone who came in ranting22:37
mneptok15:36 [Freenode] [righteous(~righteous@pool-72-65-104-97.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net)] ^ im in the channel.22:37
Seeker`so a user has to be specifically unhappy for the appeals process to apply? It doesn't apply to angry / sad / ... users22:37
mneptok15:36 [Freenode] [righteous(~righteous@pool-72-65-104-97.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net)] I'll play nice if you do.  Promise.22:37
mneptok15:37 [Freenode] [msg(righteous)] i'll think about removing the ban when you /join #ubuntu-ops as ekim and admit to ban evading22:38
ikoniaSeeker`: no, just not agreed on a resolution22:38
ikoniacoming in telling people to fuck off and I'm ban evading is not unhappy - it's being an issue22:38
Seeker`oh, so he was agreed on a resolution?22:38
MenZamneptok: Wait, he's still using the same ident?22:38
Seeker`ikonia: and what can we do in this channel about it?22:38
MenZaSeeker`: He came in here, fired up over mneptok's ban on him in #ubuntu. I stepped in to mediate, he went berzerk, escalated everything.22:38
MenZaEnded up quitting, swearing, and said he'd ban evade.22:39
Seeker`MenZa: i know.22:39
MenZajpds: Very.22:39
Seeker`MenZa: what did everyone else expect to happen by chatting?22:39
ikonianothing - discussion should have ended22:39
MenZaDiscussion should have ended and he should have been removed22:40
Seeker`but it didn't, you, along with other people, continued it22:40
mneptok15:38 [Freenode] [righteous(~righteous@pool-72-65-104-97.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net)] Ok, well, consider this as an ultimatum of sorts.  I'm a crazy bastard.  Not mean, or malicious, just insane.  And I have far, far too much time on  my hands.  I will be a plague if you don't play nice with me.22:40
ikoniaSeeker`: no, I kept stating it would not be continued in an attempt to stop people progressing it futher22:40
* MenZa sniffles as brain slowly seeps out his nose22:40
mneptok15:39 [Freenode] [righteous(~righteous@pool-72-65-104-97.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net)] It's your choice.  I'll let you say some smart assed things in response to that and then give you a minute to think.22:40
mneptok15:40 [Freenode] [righteous(~righteous@pool-72-65-104-97.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net)] You care about the channel, right?  Keeping it from being disrupted?  So let's help each other out.  We'll call it 'insurance'.22:40
ikoniathe conversation would have ended could I have removed him22:40
ikoniamneptok: dump it - let him follow the process22:40
mneptokin the future, let's all make a note of my character assessment skills :)22:40
MenZamneptok: showoff.22:41
* MenZa stabbitystabs.22:41
ikoniatoo much time is wasted with this as Seeker` rightly pointed out22:41
MenZaAlso, learn to catalyse. See particularly the point on "open-minded".22:41
* MenZa hides.22:41
MenZa<3 mneptok. Just... don't show me that picture, ever again :(22:41
MenZaI beg you. :(22:41
mneptok!staff | see above timestamped paste22:41
ubottusee above timestamped paste: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, PriceChild, niko or stew, I could use a bit of your time :)22:41
MenZaAnyway, I think we all agree that what SHOULD have happened was removal instantly after informing him about his possibilities for appeal, and we should all have shut our trap.22:43
MenZaDerp. End of story.22:43
MenZaAnd now, I go to bed.22:43
* MenZa grumbles, growls, grrrs.22:43
mneptokniko: what, exactly, will warrant his g: line?22:43
MenZaOh, I envy packagers for their easy job sometimes.22:43
nikomneptok: there is too many case to give you a good answer22:45
ikoniamneptok: just leave it to staff, he's out of our channels, not a problem any more22:45
MenZaI say don't waste another second of your life on him.22:46
* MenZa brews coffee for all.22:46
highvoltagesheesh thanks, I need it :D22:47
MenZahighvoltage: Welcome. You're new here, aren't you?22:48
* MenZa prods highvoltage with a pointy stick.22:50
highvoltageMenZa: I guess that would depend on your definition of new :)22:52
MenZaWell, here. Operhood and all that.22:52
MenZaOr are you simply new in this channel?22:53
* ikonia watches #k22:54
highvoltageMenZa: been ops on #edubuntu since 2005, been in and out of this channel for quite some time22:54
MenZaInteresting. Well, nice to see you here, properly.22:54
highvoltageMenZa: I think lurking here wasn't allowed at one point so it wasn't on my auto-join list22:54
* MenZa shakehands, serves aforementioned coffee.22:54
highvoltageMenZa: thanks for the welcome though :)22:54
Garymneptok: thanks for that timestamped paste22:58
highvoltageMenZa: I've only kept one eye on the list and the recent politic around ubuntu-ops, but it seems like there's a lot of renewed energy at least so hopefully things will shape up nicely22:58
MenZaThings will shape up nicely.22:59
highvoltage*nod* I believe so too23:02
ikoniaGary: I'm getting a poor ctcp attck in pm from righteious now23:19

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